Full Episode: Friday, January 15, 2021
Sure you can be. I grandfather was a detective on one of the biggest unsolved murders in our generation. This a child who was put to bed by her parents they just come saying no is police found evidence from the beginning that in their minds pointed directly to the ramseys time to leave the media laptop with the boulder. Police department wanted to tell us all of us that wanted to pursue the intruder. We're being removed from the case. Andy just said. I have a name. I want you to write down. And i did. And he said that's where you start all but one person on that list is innocent. Then you got your killer. sean ramsay. The little girl in colorado was murdered. Clean a jon benet jon. Benet murder has frightened residents of boulder The murder of comedy ramsey really is right now in this country the most infamous case you get their own people. Want to know who killed jon. Benet ramsey there is so much mystery rounding giannis murder and it's lasted nearly a quarter of a century. The reason i think it continues to wrestle is because we just don't know she was a spark plug in our family. I looked she kept things alive. Mongolia was abolished of fire. She was always very caring spiritual she could stand on her head she get hula-hoop could rollerblade suit just recently learned how to find a rockfall. She'd was a six year old girl. Somebody's daughter somebody's sister and she was taken from us in a very violent way. I think the fascination for this case endures because we still don't know who killed this little girl want to know what happened to job and we want justice for job. That's why the case indoors until the day we die. We'll be looking for the person that murdered her daughter in nineteen ninety-six a little girl named jon benet ramsey six years old. She was brutally assaulted and murdered on christmas night in the basement. Upper home and builder. Hey guys welcome to our first. Ever podcast episode. Thanks for tuning in. My name is jessica. I'm lexie and we're sisters. I think there's a new generation. Who's into the jon benet ramsey case. Who were her age. We're told to stay inside by their parents when she was murdered. I think yeah growing up it was it scared me a little bit because we're the same age and no same state and blonde hair blue. I you know it was a little bit scary. I remember thinking that. I could not believe that this happened like so close to our home. You think that your home is safe that this place is safe and you just don't think that it could have happened here and it did. The murder took place sometime between ten pm. On december twenty fifth and five thirty. am on december twenty. Sixth nineteen ninety six. The know a lot about the case My two girls. They love the grandfather. Grandfather was a detective on one of the biggest unsolved murders in our generation. The jon benet ramsey murder. And with this podcast. We wanna talk about the jonbenet ramsey case from our grandfather lucent's perspective was a really legendary detective colorado. That was brought in early to investigate homicide once. He got a hold of a case he never let go and he had great attention to detail. Blue smith made an eight hour video presentation that includes notes on mackay's potential suspects the evidence he collected over the years. It's a virtual encyclopedia of the jon. Benet ramsey case retired homicide detective from the poorest springs. Police department and i have worked for ten years. What i'd like to do today is to just show presentation that was made back in nineteen ninety eight. He had a history of closing cases. He had a ninety percent success rate. He advocated for the victim and stood in their shoes. So that's why we've chosen the victims shoes as our podcast name. This really meant something to him and he really felt he needed to find the killer of this little girl and he needed to do that. For johnny and first and foremost we wanted to continue our grandpa's legacy that was one thing he asked for before he died. He wants to remain alive. There's a saying here in colorado. That boulder is thirty square miles of fantasy surrounded by reality. It's very wealthy. It's well to boulder look like something out of a story book in many ways especially the neighborhood in which the ramseys live john and patsy ramsey lived in a sixty seven hundred square feet. Tutor there on fifteenth street. But i'd like to do first is to just talk a little bit about the ranji family. John ranchi interested sailing. Fly as you. Ramsey was the mother john and patsy ramsey had two children together their firstborn was burke. Nine years old. In jon benet six and a half in kindergarten. I'm a daughter sister. I'm a friend. I'm a wife and mother. John used to tell people that. I invested in futures with the features of my children. That's how i usually answer my occupation. My name is john andrew. Ramsay shamanee's half brother. John would go around and ask everybody how their day was and what they did and just an energetic and fun kid by all accounts. They were happy couple. Patsy was a high society woman from atlanta. John was a smart guy. Who had just been nominated or voted as entrepreneur of the year. Patsy ramsey was a stylish woman. She was a former beauty queen. Miss west virginia. All that is interesting. Because the case had gained so much attention because jon benet was in pageants by the time jon benet was four years old. She was in the pageant system with big hair and lots of makeup. I think it starts with the video of jon benet. It starts with the fact that you have this beauty pageant video of a six old. That is where the starts is people started saying. What's that about. How could that played him. I think it also touches on parents who have young kids like. Could this happen to me. I really believe that. If we hadn't seen the beauty pageant photos of jon benet ramsey it might have just gone into the ether as another child murder. Hundreds of children are murdered in america every year. But this one captivated us because we saw the beauty pageant pictures. I'm patsy ramsey. This is jon benet. She's taller for seven. Well christmas themed. Be kind of a crescendo for our family Just became this moment. We all look forward to a day of peace and quiet. Christmas patsies favorite time and she really went all out. She had a christmas tree for every room and every tree had a theme. The windows were done with garland. The staircases had garland there were red ribbons everywhere. Everything was about entertaining and she loved people. She loved to make people feel good for all of us at our house to everyone. Your house. merry. Christmas and the happiest of new year's there was plenty to celebrate in the ramsey home. Patsy ramsey had recently been declared clear of this ovarian cancer that she had battled and that was a huge relief to come back from stage. Four cancer plenty to celebrate that christmas so on christmas day. The ramsey family opened presence at their home that morning. Patsy made pancakes. Johnny rode her bike around on the patio. And both jon benet. And burke had friends over to play that morning the kids went outside to play with their friends with their new presence. They were going to a friend's house for dinner that night. We were gonna leave early the next morning for a trip to our summer cottage in michigan. Who is going to be the first time. I've gotten all of our family together in michigan for kind of a post christmas celebration so we came home. We came went to bed Jon benet was asleep when we arrived home. We took her to bed. Burke to bed at the alarm went to Don't asleep the next morning. Patsy was up first. You get up you addressed. What happens. I went down our steps from our into second floor. Then i started walking down the spiral staircase and as i came to the vomit stairs worth three pages neatly laid across one of the runs stairway. She picked up the note and she started to read it. I just remember when i ran. We have her daughter just this overwhelming fear. And then i just screamed for. John screamed eighteen with going on a journey. Are you if you think you may be depressed. Or you're feeling overwhelmed or anxious better. Help online counseling offers licensed professional therapists. Who are trained to listen and help with issues including anxiety grief. Depression relationship and family conflicts difficulty sleeping. Lgbt matters trauma anger self esteem and more everything. You share is confidential simply. Fill out a questionnaire to help. Assess your needs then get matched with a counselor in under forty eight hours easily scheduled secure video or phone sessions and exchange unlimited messages to communicate with your therapist at your convenience. If for any reason your unhappy with your counselor you can request a new one at any time at no additional charge. Join the million plus people who have taken charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced. Better help counselor. Better help is also an affordable option and our listeners. Get ten percent off your first month with discount code. Twenty t. w. e. n. t. y. Get started at better. H e l p dot com slash t. w. e. n. t. y. I can. I was the call taker that night shift when the call came they straight out. Okay ransom note here. She was hysterical. And she says there's a kidnapping. Okay talk done. We just got the note. Said if you do anything if police combat fbi come your daughter will die. You call nine one one. I had to do something. I had take action in all this happened. In a matter of components patchy calls nine one one at five fifty two am and the first officer writes at five fifty five. Wow that's fast really fast. More friends start to arrive in more officers. Start to arrive at this point. Lots of people are at the house. We called friends for help your daughter as goals. She's in the hands of madman. My phone rain pam. They've got her. What do you mean they've got her. They've kidnapped jon. Benet she's gone. What was the atmosphere like as you sat and waited. Well it was. It was awful first of all. We didn't know whether the kidnapper was call that day because the note said i will call you tomorrow. Get plenty of rest. I was deathly afraid. The tomorrow was in fact. The twenty seven you lose our perception of time place. You just been dealt a horrible crushing blow. The police came in just before six o'clock in the morning on the twenty sixth of december thinking that we had a missing child they go into this beautiful house with eighteen or so rooms and they did a cursory search of the residents and they didn't find anything the mistakes they made. Were outrageous there mystifying. They were stake after mistake after mistake. The police did a terrible terrible job securing that scene. And if you don't secure the scene you don't get good evidence. People were streaming through that house. They were in the kitchen. They were in the living room. There was some friends of patsies that we're helping her wipe up. The kitchen could have been fingerprints there. You had friends that were windex in the sink. Washing dishes and people were making coast in the kitchen and yes kidnapping is a crime scene. But but we were so focused on getting. Jon benet back. That was the task. What we have learned is that everyone should have been sequestered into an area so that people were roaming around house and that was a mistake on my part. The reason i didn't is because these people were the ramseys support system. There was no information at all to indicate the family was involved. At that point it was a crime scene and it was getting contaminated. The note was being passed around and reviewed by their friends of all. The evidence left behind that ransom note is the most baffling number one. It is too damn long. A ransom note is not that long ransom note. Says i have your child. I want a million dollars. I'll call you later. This is the infamous ransom note. It begins mr ramsey. Listen carefully it was three pages long and some people believe that it can knepper that was truly kidnapping. Somebody would have written a very direct into the point rants and no three pages. What was that about that. Ransom note was the war piece of ransom notes. Who would write a three page rambling. Ransom note other than someone trying to cover their tracks. Who was in the house. If the weirdest note. I've ever read. You will withdraw one hundred eighteen thousand dollars from your account. One hundred thousand dollars will be in one hundred dollar bills and the remaining eighteen thousand dollars in twenty dollars bills. You think about this number in. How is it relevant in. It's relevant because john ramsey got a bonus from his company for one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars. Many people knew that. I'm gonna guess not a lot of people. Are grandpa compared the note to some examples. Saudi founded john. Be ransom was playing in boulder. Dr a that tap gesture list is something. A lot of the same verbiage the The note of if we catch you talking to a stray dog she dies. Used against you and your family are under constant scrutiny as well as the authorities don't try to grow a brain john not attempt to grow brain. Our guys short real watcher of the particular type of movies. Then what does this tell you in terms of evidence first of all that someone felt comfortable spending time writing this long note in the house and whoever wrote the note is about to go from a kidnapping suspect to a murder suspect. The ransom note. Who indicated there would be a call between it and ten. Am and the police. Prep me on how to respond in a phone. Call very important to here. John voice police officers were leaving at nine. Thirty nine forty five before that time period of the phone call had even expired one loan. Detective flipped on the c. detective. Linda aren't is left behind in the house with john and patsy ramsey. She didn't have extensive homicide experience. Managing a kidnapping and what was about to unfold. This was likely pretty for one. Loan police officer. Everyone is cleared but the family friends victim advocates and the detective so nobody was cleared. That doesn't make sense to me. Because everyone should be clear from the scene she she crashing straight piece. I was praying. Lynn aren't had said to me. We're hopeful that kidnappers will. We'll just drop. Jon benet off someplace and i kept looking out the window clutching this cross and just imagine that she was gonna come running down the street. They're waiting for a telephone call from the kidnappers. What's going to happen next. Kind of call comes and goes in. There's no acknowledgement that. The deadline imposed by the author of the ransom. Note has come and gone. Nobody seemed to market or freak out about it. She noticed john ramsey checking his mail in the kitchen thought. That was odd. Linda art tells the restless john to look around the house. If anything is missing or looks strange check the house. Top to bottom. Look for anything that might belong to. Bed is in place where it shouldn't be. John took profanity with him. They went to the basement and john opened the door. You opened the door to the small room. I knew instantly instantly. What i found i found my daughter. She's lying on a white blanket. The blanket was wrapped around her Her hands were tied above her head tape over her mouth. I immediately knelt down over her fellow. Cheek took the tape off immediately offered mouth. I tried to untie the core. That was around her arms. I couldn't get the knot. Tied picked her up. And i ran upstairs and myron floren still at a hope that she was alive. And i see john ramsey carrying jon benet at the last three steps from the basement. She looked like she was sleeping. She had some marks on her face. Not knelt next to her and on lean down to her face and john lee down obstacle and he asked if she was dead. And i said yes. She's dead as we looked at each other. I remember and a war shoulder holster talking my gone. Right next to me and consciously counting. I've got eighteen bullets. Why did she do that. Because i didn't know if we'd all be alive. When people showed up she clearly felt in danger at that moment. She made it clear that she thought that john ramsey killed his daughter and that they might kill her. It was shocking to me that she would think that. How is it that you have all these cops searching the home and nobody finds the body. But you asked john ramsey to go look for things out of the ordinary and he finds his daughter in a room that had never been opened by anybody in law enforcement. That's crazy. He lays her on the living room floor. Where just a few minutes before friends and neighbors have been walking and you know bring in fibers and whatever could contaminate the scene and then the khuda gras. He grabs a blanket which is full of who knows what kind of contaminants and throws it over the bombing. Patsy was being kept out of the room. And i didn't want patchy to see benet laying there like that. I remember walking in and seeing her lying there in front of the christmas tree. I knelt down over her and just laid my body on her body and cheek against her cheek and it was called father. Rawal was there. He started saying the last rites believe. And i just come saying. No no a Kidnapping out show has turned into the murder of benet. Ramsey was murdered and for riffing way many injuries to the little girl's body. We have the x ray of her skull which shows a fracture of massive. This is an eight inch skull fracture. So we're talking in major force. This is just a massive blow But the ultimate cause of death wish strangulation with something called a gherat brad. What type of a weapon is a garage. How does it work is a device of string and it's wrapped around would ends up being a piece of pink and what happens is as john. Manet is losing consciousness. She's leaning forward and so this gets tighter and tighter and you can see how it cuts into my hand. You can see exactly why it cut into her neck and then ultimately according to the is what kilter. It seems to me that she had been attempting to remove the ligature from around her neck. And that tells me she was alive when she was garad. There were signs. That jon benet had also been sexually abused. The broken pieces of the paintbrush that were used for the garage. Were also used to sexually assault her. What does it tell you about the murderer. Just how vicious awful. This death was for her person. That would do this to a six year old in this fashion clearly is into sort of sadistic behavior that they like torture to a certain extent. This is clearly somebody who was really into this and was here with the intent to kill. There was no evidence of break in. There was no jimmy on the front door. There were four people in that house and one died overnight from the very beginning. They suspected the parents within minutes from this was they were going to go after. And that's what they did. The police are thinking. We gotta talk to those parents and we gotta talk to them right now before they start getting their story straight. Together they brought johnny's body out past the candy. Canes that were decorating the front of the house in there were only like to reporters outside to capture that and then the storm happened. Jon benet ramsey. The little girl in colorado was murdered. Anything jon benet jon benet. Murder has brightened residents of boulder news outlets from around the world descended upon boulder and were just hiding in trees and digging trash following new around town and it was it was the only ramsey case was completely out of control. You also have to remember the oj. Simpson case had draft up the twenty four hour news cycle there content dried up and so along came the ramsey family. And we fit right into that slot jon. Benet ramsey was a precocious six-year-old. Strangle dan basement of her own hall. You have the shock this incredibly horrendous crime then you had these videos at surface of this beautiful young girl. Dancing costumes and those are the first viral video. That's part of what. Turn it into a international circus now. We have instagram and snapchat for back. Then this was one of the first moments in time where something truly went viral. This little girl's image was everywhere overnight. The biggest negative factor about john and patsy ramsey was that they had allowed their daughter to be in child beauty pageant contests and people did not like them as grant stated. This was brutal premeditated murder. Not just a little dog on the head covered up by perverted staging. It seems unimaginable to most parents out there that any parent could do something this brutal this heinous to their own child and yet police found evidence from the beginning that in their minds pointed directly to the ramseys. Particularly amy when you start with children of this age when they died tend to die at the hands of their parents to focus is naturally going to be on the parents to begin with now in the house. The ransom note is written on a pad the belong to patsy so this is the pet. This location right here is. The note was physically found by patsy. The pin that was used was in the house. So this is the garage. That was used in the murder of jon benet and it's a special significance because of what it was made from. Yes it basically is an artist paintbrush broken and what's important is that it actually came from passes art supply and there were even fibers on the back side of the duct tape that had been on giannis mouth from patsies clothing and that was very very important but there are problems because patsy lived in that house with those fibers. Have been there anyway. The police started thinking. Maybe this is just a cover up that the ramseys harmed their child some way then panicked and tried to create basically a kidnapping scenario. Patsy and john should have been taken to the police station immediately for separate interviews for examination of their body for defensive boons for collection of clothing. That never happened at this point. They haven't interviewed the mother or father not surprisingly. They're still very grief-stricken They have not been in any kind of condition to be interviewed a couple of days after he finds his daughter's body in the basement. Police speak the john ramsey. But this is not a formal interrogation or father myself. We all marched into that police station. Get blood we get fingerprints. The thing that really stuck with me is two detectives ham either business cards and one says narcotics officer and the other auto theft and i bury my head in my hands. 'cause i knew at that point. We're in a bad spot. Boulder police didn't have the resources to solve a complex homicide. John interviewed with boulder. Please patsies doctor. Said she was too medicated. At unable to get on a bed. The police for faced with lawyers and Wealthy friends people in the community. Who told the police please give them room. They're grieving what's the matter with you though. The police had spoken to the ramseys. What they really wanted to do was formerly interrogate them. The police are thinking we gotta talk to those parents and we got to talk to them right now before they start getting their story straight together. You're lawyer is advised you then not to submit to police questions. Why not people say. Wouldn't you have to tell them everything. Well i don't recall that are lawyers told us that at the time we said you know. Yeah we want to keep working with you but you come here. We can't go out. Passy was in bad. Bassey was barely able to move. We were perfectly willing and anxious to work with the police to find the killer. We had higher priority at that point and that was to bury. The family is lying. The body back to atlanta burial. On new year's eve jonbenet was laid to rest just outside of atlanta georgia. The services in loving memory. Jon benet patricia ramsey refer back to atlanta to bury shamanee atlanta atlanta. Be where my older sister better is buried we give. Thanks today for jon. Benet for the love that she had for her parents. I want to go back to the funeral. Whatever we do. We're going to go through it together. We may not get far but sure as the star where ever we are. It's together we saying that is saying that together in single driving in the car. We just knew that we would always be together. And everything wanted my children to know that. I was with them through thick and thin regardless of what happens in life. Unconditional love go places. Now every murder case that i've ever the parents are so grief stricken but they sometimes make a nuisance out of themselves at the police department the ramsey literally the day after benet funeral. Sit down for a television interview next thing. The police knew they were on cnn. The boulder police don't interrogate the ramseys bach. They remained the main suspects. Many people found the randy's behavior peculiar suspicious weird off balance and from that thought they must be guilty when you realize that you to were the prime suspects. What did you think. Why don't you feel what did you say. But we were outraged. How could they think that we were normal family. I didn't believe you just can't believe it. I mean we're suffering from having lost. Their child meant for someone to accuse. You just can't believe that happened. A lot of people said you know if that were me. I'd be on the steps of the police department finding the murderer of my daughter and they go on cnn and say they didn't do it. Anyone knows anything. Lee leave help is. We've sensed from our friends that Tragedy has touched not just ourselves and our friends but people as a mother. My heart went out to this couple. If i were a resident of boulder. I will tell my friends to keep cloth but my journalistic brain said to make. This isn't right. They should be talking the police not the public police and their ten day search of the ramsey house and remove the crime scene tape it is unknown. If the family intend to resume residency at the home we have no comment on the whereabouts of the family at this time. Starting from the beginning of this case we. The media lapped up with the boulder police department wanted to tell us about what they were doing. In the jon benet ramsey case for the most part the police were very tight. Lipped in this thing. They didn't tell us a lot of secrets. They didn't leak a lot of information. Other than broadly. We think the mom did people who believe patsy killed their daughter believe it was over a bed wedding and then staged to look like an intruder. Ooh the bed wedding theory was a big theory at the time. The bed wedding theory suggests that patsy was angry with jon benet and killed her because the bed was wet. I'm a cancer survivor of stage. Four cancer when you're standing on the brink of death with a terminal illness your priorities suddenly lineup. Bed-wetting wedding is totally insignificant. I love my children. I wouldn't harm them for anything in the world but americans were fascinated with the possibility that the ramseys might have done this. What happened in that house. Did she go berserk and hurt romney by accident. Not on purpose certainly. Did burke heard her by mistake and cause her death was leaked by boulder police that it was possible. That burke ramsey's boyce was on the nine one one call that patsy had made the nine one one operator believed that she heard an unexplained voice at the end of the nine one. one call. Patsy ramsey is put the phone down but she hasn't hung it up and the nine one one recording continues. I heard her say okay. Called the police now. What i thought And then i heard two people talking to her. And i heard a male voice respond and then i heard a more faint voice. Respond some speculated at the time that faint voice might have been burdened with family. Denied it saying he was asleep at the time. We asked an expert to weigh in on the call. My name is ed premium audio video forensic expert and i was asked about what people have heard throughout the years from this nine one one call we go pats speaking to the operator. We could clearly see bright yellow and orange colors as i zoom in to the recording. Here i can see the formats. This is a visual representation of sound the brighter the color the louder volume the sound changes right here the section in question where people are hearing voices we can see some sounds but we don't see the forms like we saw over here so i can't rely on those being words. There's just not enough signal to noise ratio in order to be able to perceive what those sounds are. They could be noise and they could be voices. I just can't as a scientist arrive at a reasonable conclusion. The secret service and the fbi also concluded that no additional conversation is audible. I think we've been way too much way on whether or not burke ramsey was present when mom makes the nine one one call if burks voice was there or john ramsey's voices there does that mean the killer and it's important to remember at the boulder police considered burqas suspect. They suspected the parents even though the ramseys had no history of abuse or neglect of their children. All the evidence shows me that up until this point they were devoted parents. Would you get up in the middle of the night and slaughter your job or parents. We love our children. There's so many puzzle pieces here that just don't fit. Do you really think your daughter's murderer will be found. Yes i do because the killer has never been pursued an objective wide investigation. Hasn't taken place. The parents have been focused on. That's all it's been done might be an unknown entity that not one of the suspects all been currently talking about and i. I don't think any of the suspects were talking about. We know that just within a few mile radius of the ramseys home there was proximate. Thirty eight to forty sex offenders in that area and the question is have. They all been completely. Was it an accident. Was it intentional premeditated. I want to say something to the person or persons that took this baby from us. The list of suspects narrows soon. There will be no one on the list. But you the grand jury couldn't point the finger at one or the other but they were convinced it was one of the two down and at the other one helped draw brush. Torch dedicated a big part of his life to find a job as burger. Technically smith was like whoa. You just said. I have a name i want you to write it down. Lou took all of the information that he had developed a database. Three generations of my family has been involved working on the giambi. Ramsey's first officer arrives at five fifty five. That's fast it's really fast lose. Smith's family believes that all one person on that list is innocent. We're better positioned than we've ever been to solve. The jon benet ramsey. John was an entertainer she would entertain at the drop of a hat perform natural. I competed with tom. Buzney wonderful costumes and outfits. And she had this presence. It wasn't really a competition to her. It was more of like this is fun. Let's go on stage and do that. Ninety minutes sean. And what is your favorite animal at the zoo. Today that little girl would be thirty years old. I was her age. She would be my age now. She would be pursuing her own career. She never got to grow up. She is first time now. The police were convinced. Pretty early on that patsy and john were involved and you had a district attorney's office there were saying not so fast and that created enormous tension between the two thirty. I think there are some new developments. Alex hunter the district attorney. Wanted someone to come in with fresh eyes in this case and look at it from the perspective of a defense attorney who might have killed jon benet as an intruder not just the parents but from the outside boulder. Da alex hundred brought loose-knit out of retirement to help solve the ramsey case. One of the great challenges to try to do the case right and you know. I think we're making efforts to meet that. Challenge by involving people like loose smith. The legendary investigator loose meant he had a history of closing cases such tenacity. He was a bulldog once she got something in his mind. What you got the reins in his teeth. He was not letting go. Loose-knit was my father. He was just known as the of that solved cases when he got to a murder scene he spent time dictating everything he saw where the sun was in the sky. What the weather conditions were like. What the neighboring houses looked like. I grandfather was a detective on one of the biggest unsolved murders in our generation prior to this case loose smith had invested over two hundred homicide cases that led to arrests and convictions. La- dedicated a big part of his life to finding johnny's murderer when he started his investigation. He felt like everybody else did. That was probably one of two parents as she sold. The parents were probably involved in it. I thought this would be fairly education. I thought it would be a slam. Dunk and i remember talking to my daughter. I got a joke with her. Know if somebody did get the house. must've been santa claus coming down the chimney with a couple of days after my dad's started on the investigation when he had a chance to review pictures the evidence that he was already saying. I think that they need to look the other way. He was already noting in his journal that he felt that they needed to look at an intruder. Lou came up with the intruder theory. You can't think about that theory without associating it with loose med. The first thing that stood out to him was an open window in the basement There was a suitcase propped up against it. He didn't by the boulder police departments conclusion that no one could get in that basement window. He began to save. Maybe somebody did get into that house a show you how easily it can be done. So what did they do. He went and climbed in the window himself with a camera rolling to prove that it could be done. It really wasn't that difficult coming in that window But some say that the idea of somebody going in the window is complicated by something else that spotted in the images of the crime scene. When you go to a photograph of the actual window there are cobwebs in the window which could support the. No one did go through this window. The big question is could you have gotten through this window. The small window without disturbing this cobweb. Think the answer to that is maybe but the other important point is. How soon was this picture taken after jon benet was killed because spiders can replicate webs very fast also found in the basement by jonbenet's body a shoeprint high-tech brand. That did not match any shoes in the ramsey house. And then there's the high-tech footprint as well. There's a high tech footprint next to john manet that i think the investigators believe in maybe rightly so that that's the bad guys with some argued the footprint could have been inadvertently left by police officers there at the scene but another factor lucent's investigation to strange marks on jonbenet s face and back. The marks themselves both on the back and on a face where the same distance suddenly a little light went on and it was just like wait. A minute was a stun gun. Smith look did. All murderers stun gun was known to have been used. He examined images of a crime victim. Who had a gnome stun gun. Injury or sugary shepherd trump. he also looked into an experiment. Performed using stun-guns on pigs. These marks were also the same as the marks found on. Jon benet we get perfect much just like the baggage. But this brings back our grandpa's whole motto. That things are usually what they seem. Don't make it complicated. No reason at all for the ramseys jesus's time and reggie's don't have stuff. If it's not a stub. What is that question was. That's utah so everybody sort of pooh-poohed and ridiculed the intruder theory until loose-knit started to stand up point out things that everybody else from the boulder pd to the general public that large had overlooked or dismiss. He said wait a second. We need to look at this again. It actually is possible. It actually is plausible and in his view of it. It's actually the most likely thing that happened. Beliefs and the district attorney are at odds the. Da is looking at the intruder theory. The police focused on the parents. But both wanna get the ramseys to come in for a formal videotaped interrogation. Go back to the damn draw. Do it loose. Smith thought that the ramseys were being targeted unfairly. Focus something drastically. I had seen evidence of an intruder within a few weeks of as murder. Police had an important clue. The discovery of foreign dna on her body of crime scene detective discovered dna underneath jonbenet's fingernails and in her there. That did not match anybody in the ramsey family. That was not something that was made public for quite a long time time. The next four days after as johnson detective loose man was like whoa while. You're pouring water all over the intruder theory. You're not revealing that you have found unidentified. Dna at doesn't match anybody. In the ramsey family. Lou is just incensed that the focus is still being well. It could be patsy. Maybe we need to get her to confess. The ramseys had been interrogated five police. Four months after jonbenet's death but now authorities want the ramseys to come in again for a formal videotaped interrogation. There were months and months of negotiations things about whether they could be videotaped. What are the questions going to be. Should the boulder police be a part of it. Because the ramsey said we don't trust the police we don't wanna they're ultimately. The interrogation took place at a different police department and at the end the border police had to watch it from another building. The ramseys finally sit down with the police for a videotaped interrogation in june nineteen ninety eight a year and a half after jonbenet's murder wednesday june. Arpad chris rams tom. Haney was one of the most respected homicide. Detectives at denver was chosen to interview. Patsy ramsey. patsy ramsey had a year and a half to prepare night news. That was going to be tough to get a spontaneous response. You ever recall purchasing. Why can't be a house in a world that doesn't have duct tape. Because i i never liked it. Because gooey gooey louie. He started out softly and kindly and curious and then he got pointed with questions and that made patsy angry vital right now. We have in the process. Dan trae seven years to late. You to the job tried to mind She said it was impossible. That we had physical evidence linking her to scientifically give. Line flipped to go back to the of drawn. I didn't and we didn't have a clue anybody i am. So taken with her swagger. She tells them you know. You think you have some some evidence me well. You better look again charles. Read my left eye now. She's very feisty. she's very combative. And that doesn't mean she's guilty but it does mean she's innocent either have been mark out. You're walking on a street. Child clicked stood loose. Smith was assigned to interrogate john ramsey. We're lou interviewed someone. He pride anything out of people by being understanding and listening touch. Was this tape wrapped around anywhere. Stuck down very firm. I thought john was much more measured and composed you. Don't see the drama. I see a lot of pain. Nap man looked the latch. The door new meaning you say was white lightning just do i think those those tapes were so intriguing to watch the bottom line is. There's nothing there that they could use to say. Aha ha we've got you. Both john and patsy deny in the interrogation that anyone in their family killed jon benet. My dad's conclusions after that interview were just firmed up his belief that the ramseys had nothing to do with this murder. Shoot personal studio so that they're trying as you directions interesting. My dad started getting frustrated as time went on because he felt that the case against the ramseys being slanted where no other evidence was coming in. I got to something drastically wrong and that there was a gross injustice. In this case i had seen evidence of an intruder that night. Liz smith thought that the ramseys were being targeted unfairly and he didn't believe the police were listening to him. Smith so strongly disagrees with the prosecutors. Focus on the ramseys that he is resigning from the case. Saying the case tells me. John and patsy. Ramsey did not kill their daughter. The rose a letter to alex hunter telling them that he couldn't be a part of the persecution of these people is how he termed it. He wrote. I intend to stand with his family. And somehow help them through this and find the killer of their daughter. My dad may have resigned from the district attorney's office but he never stopped work on the case he walked johnny shoes and he owed it to her. He felt to continue his investigation. One thing loose fought to do with tele grand jury. His side of the story the intruder theory. There were too many questions in particular that dna in the under appears to have been from a man didn't match any one thing grand. Juries arrived at the boulder county justice center this morning and were escorted into the courthouse by sheriff's deputies. I think alex hunter got shamed and colin grand jury. I mean he didn't do it until september. Nineteen ninety eight almost two years later. And i think the media pressure and the pressure from the police department forced him to do it. Good morning counts and remember. This is after oj simpson. We're most people think that evidence of simpson's guilt was insurmountable jury in the above entitled action. Find the defendant orenthal james simpson not guilty of the crime of murder and yet he walked. Alex remember that he told me one time. I don't want to spend two years of my life and five million dollars for the tax payers money and lose in court under said a grand jury for thirteen months or thirteen months. Those people heard over hundred witnesses. Name is johnson web. I was a grand juror on the jon. Benet ramsey case bothers me that the murder of a little girl like this has gone on unsolved for essentially a quarter century members of the boulder. Grand jury looked very much like detectives themselves as they finally toured the ramsey from crime-scene perspective. It was very disturbing how she was found. She's on a concrete floor a garage around her neck and she six years old. That's pretty harm. Web told us that the grand jury spent most of their time focused on two main issues. I who wrote that ransom note we heard from three handwriting experts and even though the handwriting experts couldn't definitively say that she wrote it. They all three came to the same conclusion that it could have been patsy ramsey. The ramsey defense team had their own experts who said that the comparison between the writing on the ransom note and patsies handwriting was not conclusive. We asked an expert to weigh in on the case. My name is jennifer naso. I am a forensic document. Examiner handwriting is a great piece of evidence to have because you can identify the writer of a piece of frightening throughout the ransom note. There's potential that the author attempted to disguise their writing. It doesn't look smooth and fluid. It's very very shaky. So it looks like someone was purposely trying to shake their hand to alter the way that the writing looks. This is an example from the ransom. Note where you see that kind of type written formation of the letter day. This is also from the ransom note. Were you see that regular printed. a there are similarities between the ransom. Note and patsy ramsey's writing however the similarities that are seeing are very general in nature their characteristics that many people execute within the writing so here is another example bis formation seen in the ransom note is two strokes where there's the stroke dour. The pen is lifted up and then the bowl is created right. Here again from the ransom. Note where it starts the formation of the bowl and terminates upward so down here are examples of patsy ramsey's known writing than you do see some of those formations again. That is significant that we see each of the formations represented but keep in mind. This is one letter from the whole ransom note. Is it possible that patsy ramsey roach ransom note. Yes is it possible. Someone else wrote the ransom note. Yes the grand. Jury believed that she grow the second. Focus for this grand jury. According to jonathan webb was the viability of the intruder theory smit actually presented his intruder theory to the grandeur photo. Taken of the dream. Lytle of i listened. Detective this what. The grand jury wasn't buying the intruder theory because of those cobwebs in the window. The intruder theory didn't make sense to the to the grand jury. The boulder police said photographed cobwebs. So for someone to get through a small opening like that and not disturb a cobweb remarkable and grand. Jury does not decide guilt or innocence. The where regular jury does the grand. Jury is only there to decide whether or not there is probable cause to charge the suspects with a crime. We were troubled by. To what level of confidence do we need to have to vote to indict. And as the preponderance of the evidence which means greater than fifty percent and soon after that we voted to indict. Patsy and john are accused of forbidding child to be unreasonably placed in a situation which posed a threat of injury. The child's life or health which resulted in the death of jon benet ramsey and then in the other one did unlawfully knowingly and feloniously render assistance to a person with intent to hinder the apprehension of the person. These two things together make it clear that the grand jury couldn't point the finger at one of the other but they were convinced that was one of the two of them and at the other one helped. This is souther news at. There is high anticipation in boulder. Right now for a ramsey decision. And we're about to hear an announcement from boulder da. Alex hunter taskforce believe we do not have sufficient evidence to warrant the filing of charges against anyone who has been investigated at this time. I was shot extremely unusual for a grand jury to vote to charge and the da charge. It was the right decision. I think it was the right decision. I think no matter what you think about the case i think that they would never have gotten to conviction. Thank you very much. There were too many questions. In particular that dna in the underwear that appears to have been from a man didn't match anyone they knew done all this work to try and vet the ramseys woodwork. Have we done to truly vet other potential suspects in this case. That's why lewis. Smith continued investigating even after. He resigned from the case. Louche make calls me cold. And i said to him. I been praying for somebody to call and one list. I believe a friend of mine killed him purpose. Ho kids left behind. I believe over nearly thirteen years. Lou took all of the information that he had in this case and developed a database in this particular murder. He thought that. Dna would solve this case but loose-knit couldn't have imagined the advances in dna that were to come advances. That would lead to a number of big surprises in the case what was developed at a single touch dna. So i just touched this picture touch table. I have now left skin cells on both locations in theory that could be scraped and they could match that up to my dna in two thousand eight the then district attorney for boulder. Mary lacy decided to do round of dna. Testing on jonbenet pajama more than a decade later. The items were requested tested and they found something new remember. The previous analysis had already found dna from an unknown male under jonbenet's fingernails and in her underwear. Now this new touch. Dna uncover dna from at least one annot male. Maybe two on her leggings as well. That's pretty big thing. That's a pretty clear indication that somebody else was there you've got. Da now in three places on jonbenet's body that doesn't match anybody in the ramsey family. Anybody and nobody knows. Who's it is. And so i think that's what drove district attorney to make a comment that she's basically not gonna look at the family and the longer. The news broke here at the district attorney's office with this incredible letter to jon benet father. Da mary lacy wrote john ramsey. We do not consider your immediate family including you your wife patsy and your son burke to be under any suspicion in the commission of this crime. John ramsey appeared on a local newscast. We're certainly grateful for the knowledge. The we are innocent. This wasn't intruder. Which course we've always maintained Somewhere somehow there may be a match to that dna. Then you've got your killer Archer job i. So this shortage stupid. A loose-knit spent years organizing and investigating the evidence in the jon benet ramsey murder case but eventually he ran out of time when he got sick with cancer he knew that his time was limited and so during that time he just talked to others about not letting this case di he had people coming every single day sixty seventy eighty people a day coming to see him and they said their goodbyes and during that time he would still talk about the case. I remember the last. Three days slipped coma in the conversations. Become one way. You know what i don't know if you could hear you're not very much an honor to be here to celebrate loose smith's life and to share my thoughts with you. I'm john ramsey. I had the opportunity to visit week before he died. Remarkably during that time together lou talked a lot about the case he hadn't given up he'd never never never gave up. When loose-knit died he passed the torch of the jon benet ramsey investigation. His daughter cindy mara and she took it and he just said i have a name. I want you to write it down. And i did and he said that's where you start. We'd be glad to pay that. We don't have love electron report so we would need boulder to send it after my dad died. You know a couple of us our family and in some of his old thomas side partners we just formed team go down to number two because that is an state one. What we all share in common is that commitment to fulfil lose dying. Wish that this case doesn't die with him. And i think it said devotion that respect that love for lou is what keeps our team moving forward. There were a whole host of other possible suspects. This is bill nick. Rentals local santa in town. There's no way in the world that i could be involved in the death of this girl. Daughter what a perfect suspect. Santa claus wouldn't that have just hide it all up in a nice little stated that if you can't show me a motive show me evidence of bad character if you can't show me evidence about character show me tea. Had condensed thing. He knew about every person of interest into a spreadsheet. The team that has family created is confident that the killers name is spread sheet. So what do we know about. The person suspected of killing jon benet ramsey the. Da says the genetic profile. The dna belongs to a male. There were a whole host of other possible suspects ranging from known criminals to friends of the ramseys brad. Investigators looked to be on the ramsey family. In fact there was some speculation into potential involvement by two local men. Correct correct here. You have gary oliver. He was a homeless man who hung out at a church. Just a block and a half from the ramseys home and he confessed that he killed. Jon benet ramsey. In fact he called a friend right after she was killed crying sobbing saying he just killed little girl they took a look at him but eventually eliminated him because there is absolutely no connection between he and ramsey's and his dna. They used that to eliminate him. This is a bill mcreynolds. Lil local santa in town. I was think santa claus for three years at their party. And i always liked to ramsey party. So i call patsy in particular and said it's time for our party in apparently jon. Benet had made a comment that he built. The grills was coming into their house to see jon benet. I think everybody thought that was a little weird. His dna did match and he's out of the picture and then this is someone who actually gets brought up quite a bit. This is michael hell and this was high on loose. Smith's list michael hill goth was an interesting character cosby cold. I said to him. I've been praying for so million call in one list. Mike said he he wanted to kill himself to get it over with. And that's one thing and then he said a partner. We're going to make fifty or sixty thousand. at christmas. He wanted to crack human skull. Michael hell goth evidently committed suicide the day after the boulder district attorney threatened that. Hey we're going to find you. The list of suspects narrows soon. There will be no one on the list but you so he committed suicide after authorities said they were narrowing their list but he had a stun gun any had high tech boots. Correct stun gun a bit odd for people to have high tech boots fairly common thing for people to have but the real clinch sure would be. Dna didn't match and he has no connection to the ramsey family so he was ruled out and he was ruled out. And then brad who could forget john. Mark karr of kuwait quite the headline today died accidents. No everyone probably around the world. John mark karr. Her death was was an accident. Yes problem is he was in boulder colorado when she died and his dna didn't match and that was it he was ruled out. What does it say about the state of this case in the possibility of ever solving it. Well that's a big question. We went through. The people interests the suspects and came up with our top twenty. Take a look at it and run it through their program with our team has been doing is focusing on collecting dna and testing dna. Do you wanna touch with any wants to. I think we should make the effort. You wanna just start like maybe in september. And since lou has castaway the team has been able to clear a number of people from that list however the work is pretty slow because at the time and expense involved in locating somebody on that sheet and obtaining their dna and then testing it we have asked suspects dna and in other cases. We've i guess. Don't it the old fashioned way with surveillance and Trickery we've gotten together and followed people and gotten a discarded or some such thing so that is evolving constantly. So we're in better position today than we've ever been to solve the jon benet ramsey case we are just trying to eliminate people from that list and we just figure if we keep at it hopefully will finally whittle it down to one person remaining on that list. Lewis family believes that all but one person on that list is innocent murder. Jon benet ramsey will ever be prosecuted. Is it still just as mysterious today as it was in one thousand nine hundred six absolutely. I think it's even more mysterious now to some degree because people have moved away from john and patsy ramsey possible saucepans. And so then and you're faced with this question of the was in that house. Why did they target her. And to some degree that makes it even more fascinating person brantley hutch most in september we met with the boulder. Da's office and pd and what we've presented was a confidential list of our hot twenty people interest and the list of eight people of interest that our team had eliminated through dna analysis We just don't feel at this point that they are actively investigating this case. The boulder police department says the ramsey case is an active ongoing investigation. But they have never publicly commented on the handling of the case. This team is going to give up. There's a third generation and my daughter's and others that will continue on with this case when we end up being too old to do it But we're not gonna stop investigating. We're just not going to do it. True wrench that's an intruder at intruder. Indicate took its toll on a grammy emotionally and financially over the year and john ramsey with lose his job and spend millions on private investigators. lawyers and purity. There's still people today. John twenty two years later. Who believe you or pat. Burke had something as i know that in how they believed otherwise because as i told you even if we have a conviction confession and this person's prison there's going to be five. Ten percent of the population is still thinks guilty. My dad certainly suffered a tremendous amount. But i think this focused on wife today and enjoying life with his family and grandkids and he's remarried. Pets died from cancer in two thousand six. She's buried in marietta georgia next to jon. Benet day my mind. She's still my six year old little girl. That's how i remember her. Every once in a while see a little child from behind one yet ponytail girl but six years old and it catches me for a second because it looks like jon benet. The family has not lost the will to fight in the will find the killer. We work on this daily. There's a group of dedicated volunteers that were this daily. I want the trauma to stop for the family. And if we can find the killer and the next generation doesn't have to live with that trauma and the unknown and the speculation. Only way to do that is to find out who did it. I think it's really important for people to understand. This case can be solved. There's a narrative out there that this is an unsolved homicide and next week. We just have to accept that as fact and that is not the truth. We leveraged the evidence. We follow the facts. We will find this killer. I used to give people might trust. And i was there to lose. Everybody carries a burden. They struggled with wasser heartbreak. But everybody has to have hope just recognized. There could be around you.