Modernizing Angular Apps with Jennifer Wadella

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A day with me online rebuilding this APP from scratch dates are this Monday November fourth Monday November twenty fifth and Monday December sixteenth cost is only three twenty five pay rock heads Carl here you know spent the last month and a half researching serve side Blazer and building out a reference APP with just about every bell and whistle I could find so spend can't wait to show you everything I've learned he knows but back in September on September sixteenth and article came out and computerworld Microsoft gives enterprises another nine wants to get off exchange server twenty ten yeah isn't that interesting you know that they will extend welcome back to dot net rocks this is Carl Franklin and this is Richard Campbell and I applaud you for that hey let's play the crazy music I got something for you my friend okay. I don't know what you're planning to do tonight Halloween but if all in we're recording this way back in September on the eighteenth all they're running I'm still moving workloads off them they're not about to die but it's like normally around now so I mean I think about those machines and twenty thirteen I did a full timber but if everything goes right I might actually be able to do the floating head of death this year somewhere Oh haven't done that in years yeah Kelly's mom has still operating it's just becoming the lower priority I have I have I we refused to replace my virtual machine servers yeah so you sit in the garage and try and stay warm and that's come and go and and you chat it's it's Nice it's it's pleasant we are my my house for November Twenty Fifth Go to blazers eleven twenty five dot APP dot com and for December class go to Blazer Twelve Sixteen Dot Phoenix Dot Com all right buddy and this old news by now but I don't know if anybody notices or any are of high performance VM host is just no need on. I'm not doing that anymore turns up for almost nobody's doing that anymore you're gonNA have a lot of closet space my friend I I happen to have smoke two dozen racks ribs and we had a good time yeah when most people smoke a party it's not ribs yeah well that's what you do so you smoke it outside dry agent inside actually turn the temperature up in the closet in general it's another thing the script interrupt and User Management Using Visual Studio Twenty and nineteen community edition Dot Net court three to sign up for Monday go to blazer DOT APP v Necks Dot Com migration dates I you got to wonder what was the customer which customer said yet no you're you're not gonna you're not GonNa Stop Right house in the neighborhood with lots of kids and and a glass door and it's a glass door that's the key thing last door so I might be doing that we are neighborhood and I'm not GonNa Okay I'm GonNa move the workloads to the cloud and and maybe switch over to like sinology box or something like that but buying a pair is an and my neighbors lies we're responsible for the end of summer parties we did our party right after the weekend after Labor Day now and it rained so we were intense but we are still out there and fan refresh and spinning harbor fresh new hard drives and things like twenty sixteen uh-huh and so two thousand nineteen time rb thinking probably I should be replacing these machines got my friend what are you got who's talking to US I know we're talking about angular today specifically older angular APPs too so I grabbed a comment show thirteen ninety one about their thought process I think had impact on Jamie Yep at first with angular one I badly criticized both the product and the team when is just tighten it and and so this Halloween parties to go to all the neighbors go so yeah I just grab a bottle of wine in wandered down to the neighbors and sometimes react but listening to how angular has been transformed in an opinionated framework has been is opening their conversation with Jules really talking was very much a change in philosophy were angular to became was a much more opinionated opinionated less configuring yeah and that's what the other thing we did this was a December show yeah but for the content in the show I honestly ruled out angular from my tool set I'm currently using view Jay I don't know do you still run it I still have a twenty sixteen instance okay been moving stuff over officers sixty five for a while but yeah my my gene back in December two thousand sixteen when we talked to one jewels crummer about angular time Jules was the head of angular developer relations and the two came out and not offering a clear option upgrade to me that was even more devastating but through the show beginning beginning to see angular with other is there's nothing more rewarding than to see the amy almo- really jumped into Middle East comments from three years ago but he says definitely one of the best episodes of the year now offer reeling that winner of the shopping spree because that's that sort of happening now is we don't make the room cold we just keep it it sort of arm shirt temperatures yeah that's what I do too there's no shelter the machines need to be really pleases me because I think that was our intent with that show was to convey the fact that they did not casually go into angular to that it was a torment and apparently now she's back in angular right I think she's like head of angular now so I'll have to look back with her that was a really fun discussion because I in twenty but the world's going down like just you can't justify all this gear anymore nope it's it's time Yup that's so I'm pretty sure that would be overkill for twitter well plus twenty ten like there's been sixty five for crying out loud right right well anyway let's bring back Jennifer Wedel she's been writing code since before she realized it was a credible for them as well right and we did talk about the upgrade options but they were limited it was not an easy thing to do and of course many your path she's currently working as the lead angular consultant at Beethoven and loves building performed web applications and speaking at technical com references end brewing Kombucha Jennifer is an active member of the Kansas City Tech community in the founder of Kansas City women technology kick it or no discussion for no swift call me Kelly Dick I mean but anyway it's an organization aimed at growing the number of women in technology careers in Kansas City she is the pub Con Sydney Twenty eighteen champion welcome back jen also Jennifer don't make me break you're welcome back Jennifer my wife my wife is her name is Kelly I'm at Carl Franklin send us a tweet hey I wonder if twitter uses exchange two thousand ten I'm thinking no a silicon prairie champion award nominee rising trend setter stemming award winner and is apparently Missouri's coolest woman according to pure while humility and the commitment of a team embodied in a product and this is precisely what I got from the show to hear that the angular team really cares what happened is as a developer has been the reason enough a lot of clubs you know back in the day if you go back that far back when I first built that thing like I have a eighty Iraq space right because we I mean we're talking specifically about the issues between angular wanted angular to right and that was that big schism Yep you know we had lots of people are upset about it in a year or two ago we had our at Devon recession and stuff we worked with a few times she's really great and she got promoted you into out of the Angula team entirely experiencing and spending a lot of time at conferences you just you don't realize how many people are still supporting legacy technology and nobody is really creepy evaluated in well done to jewels on the whole team and thank you guys for a great show Yeah Awesome Nice I really I really further versions along with this this sort of getting too opinionated software mindset wits come up in our conversation a few times now sure think it's it's it's the yeah you know living the life so you've been I have been migrating older angular APPs that the thing that we're going to talk about have you been doing lately Oh my gosh doing a lot of conferencing doing a watch of and when people call our cal it drives her absolutely crazy and so Richard for a while there was calling her cal just to push her buttons so one day she said we had a bunch of machines the fact that I saw it down to two beefy for you servers already opened up a lot of rack space they WANNA dry age some meat I got a closet in content for them anymore they've been kind of like left in the in the dust and so I'm kind of like okay what can I do to make their jobs easier and well as young Java script developers have a little bit of a a different timeline view so okay yeah Fox dot com on the social media's because we publish every show to facebook and if you comment there and read on the show was edgy copy music oh by right and definitely follow us on twitter he's at rich Campbell up to like one point five one point eight and then everything either to plus is just referred to as angular now which is not helpful for when you're trying to Google for like a dealer if keep up with modern best practices when they are not miss situation where businesses go to allow them to do like a massive upgrade a massive rewrite like when things can they do today we should be going these days yep absolutely Jamie thank you so much your comedy copies Jacoby is on its way to you and if you'd like a copy co by right I comment on the website at Don nine I think it's been two years yeah yeah I've been up to a lot of stuff no no it's a year it was it was published in January twenty eighteen the issues that you have to deal with when you're trying to bring an old angular app into the into the twenty first century well out here is the thing we're GonNa talk about here in it's just moving into a consulting role in getting exposed to a lot of different problems that people are all areas of all I'm sorry I'm just getting my head around angular as legacy Kanji I write five was modern right since maybe like six in not even that it was that big of a scale but it really hasn't been a concern to save enrolling at new versions mostly just avenue render engine I e that's offering a lot of interesting features which is all anybody talks about is the new shiny stuff which is why I've been Mike on this kick lately about aren't as familiar with the the modern technology needs and so you say you want to rewrite the application and they're like why did I you know why do we spend all this money to rewrite it toys play with just nuke so it's just adding to capability rather than actually replacing capability yeah the one thing they are working on right now is there company that has acquired old technology there's just not a good enough business reason a change in so how can they not only like continue ability this comes out we might have nine right yeah I know it's they push out quite a bit but there haven't been any really destructive breaking changes right after ABC London you know where you are all right that's great that's now that we know who you are and what to call you and what you've been doing now we don't know what you've been doing stop calling your Cap Kelly I ever after may major point just fine yeah okay Jennifer what you've been up to since the last time we talked which was when when was that that was that a NBC or something any out it hasn't been two years house at the time the first place in a lot of people are kind of in this physician where they are supporting some sort of legacy or maybe they are application in a way that makes sense for a Sunday upgrade future but also like what we care about his job script developers a lot is updating your skill set Taylor developments took a job with a consulting company in December let's cut out my first time for rain in the consulting world a legacy javascript code base so that's kind of my focus lately D- is it a complete rewrite if you're an angular to is there a certain making sure that our skills our current relevant be hard when maintaining a legacy code base so how do you stay happy wanting to be modern developer when you are stuck support level of angular where it is a complete rewrite and then it switches over to well maybe we could just modernize it so everything seven or eight now eight eight Hollyman they faithful if definitely accelerated since two I mean to is three years ago well by the time Oh creating content for for those left behind yeah right yeah that's fair in in smart so what is what what is what are the main oh the the biggest thing is if you want to modern angular it's going to be a complete rewrite and so you've got TA companies who angular to afterwards there've been it's pretty consistent and so there are some really great energy upgrade tools that you can use that will handle the issues Florio so anything after that version results so you really like to plus and then whatever you need to know but the team would prefer that we refer to it as angular gs and angular what we have delivered unto US unto plebs his style guide for J. Development in the world was new and shiny after that and so the style guide really tends to like modern yards to be the safest fat for that right so I'm curious what's the biggest problem with angular one that doesn't allow you to do there's not a complete rewrite that's cool yeah wasn't there some tools for going from one ax to to to to that migration assistance that kind of thing because you weren't necessarily forced to modulate already in the way you're writing so you could very quickly end up with some Spaghetti Code that so if you even if you were to like clone the repo that they have like that teaches you how to how to build in two thousand thirteen edition in Two Thousand Sixteen Edition Twenty nine hundred which by the way I have not migrated twenty nineteen and I want it I had the cycles even consider doing that go off Gordon Assistant but pretty really says is I'm going to analyze coding give you some strategies suspect one of those strategies rewrite yeah yeah of opinion was causing huge problems they went to a more opinionated mindset going forward well and it also really depends on the audience you're trying to serve and so one of the great things that happened in the jazz community is like what it was the wild wild west for I don't know like maybe a year hill and then John Papa or might be but the what the huge issues is in this is what I explored some of the content I'm creating a vastly depends on the way you built your angular J. Asset it together a great way to start writing English asked applications in it's really funny because if you compare the way you are writing your opponents in your in your modules falling ah kind of place that you could use some other tools I think that's where the bulk of the work will I I'll cooling to this but in a project called the Oh guide very much is reflected in current development in so once you start migrating to that mindset that way of organizing files and Organiz your code base even if there wasn't upgrade tool it wouldn't be to a manageable way to even poor over and so a big part is ticking your existing code base in getting it to yep still getting the giggles every time you say modern angular yeah you're right after angular too do what you would consider to be a modern APP you know modernized micro services and all that started so strongly people win a lot of different directions with it and astor Google saw that I think this is what we talked about that show it tools right and they realize that the last react where they have much more granular control can focus let's warm performance companies are looking for a more holistic solution that's making those choices for them which is why angular say legacy you are talking angular one yes in like the technical terminology preferred by the team is angular says the original like eight years want to use some sort of CSS compile or or heaven forbid you want to start writing your files type scripting we're GONNA need to compile those into something that can be read by the browser that ally dependencies there I know I'm like oh I have to type or I have to click on things let let blasphemy as this archaic is like you see a lot of angular in enterprise applications and these are probably being maintained by developers who have not been writing javascript for last ten years and are going to opt for something like the old your first website that hasn't really been modernized doll so let's say you want to have some sort of a build tool because maybe so it's just there's so much work that you have to do out of the gate to get it setup like that which is pales in comparison to modern Oscar file ever into html page but figuring out how to implement web pack to compile and serve those files and also set up a testing instance With Karma this is this yeah seriously I I have to say I I'm spoiled now by Blazer that you're done it becomes much more feasible to monitor right yeah and again is this this is a side effect of angular one because it was resisted opinion developer is there such a wide variety of tooling and like if you're on an older code base you might have never touched you know sex set angular few times and I don't know the as a Java scrip- program you're probably used to like new language syntax all the time but it just didn't make sense for me in the past like two months you know you're like why would I do anything except laser seriously I'm hard pressed to find a reason not to use it about his the ball of mud approach to javascript versus this you know putting in place separation of concerns in structure around the various bits of money yet tasks them so a big part of that was courting aren't even remember we were using a build process at all I think we might have literally just that slapping every and a lot of times they're just wrapping standard html controls so you can always go back to their yeah but anyway I looked I'm learning javascript frameworks for like the last six seven eight years this this is what I do like there will be a new one on Monday it will be way better than reactive so anything like that so there's just a lot of a lot of work you have to do to the ground up to even get to the point of looking like what it feels like to to develop a modern out yeah it's it went says move too fast but the the other side is like we are getting a feels like we're getting more organized yeah just stuff like that man yeah and that's that's such that's such the weird thing about like being Jarvis the job code you need to live with an footman you get a little seal I depend too if you're like me and I have to physically like create a file it's dislike it can be really frustrating because you can be a great programmer but like I my last job search a lot of places wouldn't hire me because I didn't have react production experience like guys mhm am I crazy that this does make more sense that you're is angel or maintain -able Oh yeah for sure find security vulnerabilities to fix them just not adding new features which one would argue enterprise have don't want anyway right like it's like now the APP works it works so modernizing let's define that I mean it goes beyond build tools and devops but I mean a lot of along everybody is on the reactive programming kick well it felt like angular reached a point maturity where it became tools that enterprise once in a while a third party controller. Whatever doesn't do what I wanted to do right but usually there's three or four different companies choose from before or even like got a type script or compiled languages in the second that you go out on the job search in people talk to you because you haven't used these things in production isn't inherently built in I remember like back when I was dealing with Aniela J. 's APPs it was I think assertive I was working at I had taken on the task of the IT works I don't want to change it yeah there's this other area where innovations going on it's just a question of is this a place where the enterprise data actually wants to live or not just modern tools and techniques fall into that category Yep so maybe we'll go over some of those yes we can break it down into a couple sections website it talks about long-term support they recognize that there are enterprise apps out there depending on this library and they're not going to let it go and they're and they're going to continue the things like the Cli they did break out into separate tooling around all these things like this is what we are what we really out that will help us write better code one of those being type script which she no allows us to write or strictly Type Java script and catch a lot of errors images freaking out ways to serve assets that you know don't don't deal with caching issues in so a big part of that learning and understanding and being able to so that's fine job requirements ten years react expressing been there that long but okay we'll go with it you thought you're talking about the Java script ecosystem as a whole which is like you know build it up portadown again because something's better we'll see Taylor Rehab the Cli that you know within a couple of key strokes you have an entire new module that's got number thing like that you never think about compiling or dealing with web pack loaders architects we're going to start recommending in my world at least that means you're looking at a piece of software that's going to be in use for at least ten years absolutely when I go poke around the Angular Jeff it progressive Web APPs for people who don't have as great of Internet connection all sorts considerations there and then we also have a lot of you know tools that are coming really really nice but that's a huge part of modern APPS is because you know web standards are changing were needing to make sure that we're able to serve content that we might not normally hit until run time and so there's work that you have to do to J s APP to even be able to the especially with running lighthouse performance tasks and everything like that and I feel like angular take some hits sometimes because people like to argue about performance to improve the performance of your applications often having that bill to tool knowledge to make sure that you're taking your code and serving it in the best way you can in the browser versus if you're using a huge fan of gaps be which is a static site generator built on reacted has just all this performance optimization built into it you almost don't even have to think about it five in one day we'll read a complete server side blazer PWA APP with the F. Three API controllers components signal are asp- peanut core identity good enough for the angular team should be good enough for everyone right yeah yeah and it's really funny 'cause like you You you talk to irs and you've got some of them like me who are like compiler is just yelling at me I don't like this new building my workflow and then like you see the change starts to happen where they're like oh you know I I never thought the command line that's that's a lot of key strokes that I don't WanNa make its own little see so the first one that I feel like front end developers probably focused on Moore build tools because they largely in performance optimization so we are you know thinking about things like making sure that we're finding our code stripping out comments on having code maps that we can refer to for debugging figuring out better ways to render for Roy let what are you talking about like Modern Essex letting concepts that that's throwing you you know raised in the wild world of Java script where we're like just like throw in bars and that can be a string and that could be a number and then it's not and you know all sorts of drought at that before like Ooh let's see what this hyler areas telling you I didn't even know about this feature in lake slowly come to rely on it and it's it's this is interesting Tom Right at in in type scraps and take advantage of all those features assets another big area I'm absolutely agreeing with you that that's sort of the role type scripted inspire me because when it comes out on Monday yeah no no it's because you don't have ten years experience yeah right but that's we're just like screw you don't tell me what to do somebody like that who does not come from like a struggling type background and the types of they're like herbal well I think anybody who is hunted for a type change in code somewhere right just transition that I myself have made read like type script is so oppressive announ like a need type scripting protect this world the front yeah it went over well and it's always fun 'cause like you you programmers are pretty smart people but this is expecting I say at compile time because what the heck does that mean but early on in the process three of dot net talk and we'll both be hosting the closing session get a discount when you register with the Code Dot any T. R. K. S. go to Devon dot dot net rockstar Randall. Dan Wat Lean John Papa Markus egger Michelle Aruba Samante and more I'll be doing a deep dive session on server side Blazer and Richard will be doing his his postcards or November twenty second speakers you've heard on dot net rocks include Scott Guthrie Scott Hunter Scott Hanson Kathleen Dollar Jeff Fritz Kim trip Paul Wjr come join richer to me a Dev intersection November eighteen th through the twenty first at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas Pre con workshops on November seventeenth eighteenth us you catch these issues yeah in like absolutely like yeah having it happened during the compiler where like you had that instant notification of hey yeah so we made a big Pie in the big Pan I got wiped while I was making a Veggie Pie in a smaller Pan and by the time the veggie dot com right now to claim your discount Amer back it's done Iraq's I'm Richard Campbell that's Karl frankly talking to our friend Jennifer would della my pie like this sucks this is not what I wanted to be doing with my day yeah well and then for me personally like again coming from just Java script I am obsessed with interfaces what that function is supposed to return a much it's just it's delightful it's set a little just let you know hey that's not what this interface you done something wrong us pretty pretty spectacular so yeah into it's it's pretty powerful stuff and I'm going to interrupt for one moment for this very important message in at all and when you walk into a type script environment and you're already creating interfaces that are describing a the printers for function you might need but not only that like got twenty eight thirty inches it's it's absurd it was a beast and we made we in one night we feel that thing twice what do we do we serve like forty something people pal we we've made much together and it's not a euphemism it was player and you get a nice so Korat on the bottom there does does the angular two plus versions hold any grip over my angular one x APP compared to say of you approach you're eating international food hits I mean it's rice with meat but it's rice yes I wanted use some sort of angular service got HIV requests and there's no documentation I'm trying to figure out like what Prams I'm supposed to pass like what's going on trying to do bug that of course the API isn't it's like they're my favorite thing just from like an automatic code documentation because the number of times that I've wondered Kobe's any no I'm trying to into you know fast-moving iteration they've written single page applications throw in Java script for like the last decade I think a more back into this let me throw another curve ball at this is one of the ways to modernize angular apt to move away from angular like you're talking about a rewrite anyway it really wants them we're having ways optimized performance and deal with code and then but at the end of the day I think it really depends on your team if you've got a tool like reactor view would probably more appropriate because they don't need as much of that that structure the angular offers and you sort of casually dropped angular ivy there eh their food pellets are less than diverse sometimes so having the like introduced people to apply is just a delightful delightful experience it was ready to big pen was clean and I just loaded up again made it again yep although I got really confused because one of my friends told me she only got the we did we got a couple of good crispy ones well a she brought out the biggest pan I've ever seen in my life like okay was that a three inch pan you got Jennifer I mean Paiva and I was like wait I thought you got into the first round and she's like no by the time I got there it become just a veggie PA swipe told the protein out of triplets nations. I think that's another piece to the modernisation puzzle is so you've got a SPA and now you're using reactive extensions to do what yeah I like based on what the team had been saying for a while I'm surprised that it's like 'cause you could opt into it the Beta I don't know a couple people use this will so it's getting towards lower like reactive or more imperative the new versions of angular yeah so super interesting in the one thing to completely like just divert back to the original thing is we haven't really I think they do especially with ib because now we're getting more tree shaking ability so if we're lazy loading different parts of our application that might not be necessary in two years declared it can lead to a lot of code be very hard to read and so when you take a more reactive approach where you're trying to derive state of business logic that we might be doing on client side until you've got all these different sources of information and so when you've got events firing in in your programming I really quite knew what is ivy so yeah I is the new render engine that is kind of taking a different approach to more imperative approach to I'm worried about all these things and you can see that right up front exactly and I feel like once you've like Gone Oh God and it's a huge like mental shift that you know if people feel like they don't like they can't use the tools in their current environment they might Taylor chance developers feeling limited by the tool sets to understand that they can actually use libraries and start to use reactive for ramming like as a mental model inside their own coming mom because one of the problems with you know Java script is were largely concerned with interactions from a user and then you know handling some sort you're sitting on a static page and you want to refresh things you ended up writing a lot of state logic yourself polling in checking for stuff and reactives better at organizing this stuff over the curb is a program of understanding this approach that the code is really much more readable you have very much better idea of what's going on talked about this this concept of reactive programming yet which is really I think take taken off from anger largely being based on our xjs again just interesting to think in terms of of this is not changing your code per se but it's giving you a new rendering pipeline so you're gonNA no more you the way assets are compiled in rendered and will offer some additional features I haven't had a whole lot of time to play around with it but there are a lot of great talks people are putting out the crx gs used across the reacts as well in this whole new programming paradigms essentially which is another important thing to think about couple months ago Mike Mike Tomlin is off but I didn't expect it to drop as quickly as it did so they've been hauling to to get that out to US north powerful stuff about it almost seems type scripting some respect that you just learn more active quote unquote compile time giggling about that if you're out running in out all the features it's not available to Angular J. Developers which is sad good its angular eight like it's right up there is the new stuff they're going to be less like weird side effects can happen from from different things so that that's another big of modernizing is not just using tools tim burners lease web anymore like the the old post and get mindset just pushing a former getting it back that's not what we're talking about here and just shoot like tune out and not be open to exploring this new concept not realizing that they could really take advantage of it just because it is you know comes out of the box you know javascript applications and frameworks are changing so rapidly you know how can we start to build components that are more framework agnostic per se or drive data from like all these different input points it could be a lot easier to read into bug on and manage stateful applications better so to go just as ideally we've been talking for years about how twitchy javascript had gotten and we were talking about the tribes of libraries that worked together in the ones that you know they did not alert yeah and so in reactive you're doing more of this declaring listeners and things like that like I'm watching for this and I'm watching for this and if this happens do that like it's like you said else who's using a different framework but the cool thing is a lot of people are getting more into the web components API inserting to think about okay. We'll that's what I want now that's a modern looks like well for now until something more modern comes out this week right is it really that twitchy anymore to es two thousand seventeen yeah and that's just not feasible crazy yeah so everybody is on the the Web Components Bandwagon right I'm way more interactive model and it takes some time to really say how am I going to organize this I I appreciate are ex is running around for years mud and not your javascript the other guys got a bunch of people who are used to being in you know larger corporate environments Kobe's not making light of its citizens or specific got some season Java scrip- professionals who are right yeah and I think also getting maybe a little bit more respectful 'cause you know everybody loves to talk about their framework and talk about how so much better in shame every how do you maintain that without going into learning curve every time of having to learn a new tire new framework right or demanding that every one of these different bits and pieces get upgraded all work together there was sort of clusters around differences the tools it does seem in some respects to calm down right it gets kind of angular react in view stacks dealer apathy rewrite at that can be another really powerful way to mitigate future tacked up this feels like more sustainable by to make that this is just sort of be a staple tool for how you build a spa that's really an issue thing to think about up of thinking about overall separations in collections of of support. Yeah I think it's like a little bit more of a holistic approach to web development and so that's actually a really cool solution for Angular J. 's developers as well is okay so the problem is you know that you might be able to upgrade your APP Sunday in that can be used across wolf a scenario because you're seeing companies that just have collections of of APPs in whatever was Java scripts flavor of the week in so yeah you could easily intimidate someone away from being a web developer when you start show him this level of abstraction yeah and it's like there's so many people like for my day who you totally your ball of might is beautiful some special sticking twiggy kind of way duct tape and bailing wire kind yup yup maybe some dog hair actually but we're still dog hair cat hair yeah but we have we have been but this is more thorough I mean I've got I've got the link to the web components here that I'll I'll throw on the website but wow it's just the the scope like we're not just dancing around with different balls that were trying to me stuff it will last two are you calling my jobless balls changing the way we think about programming and using other tools available to allow us to enact that styles coated like this on your resume but having no comprehension of like even you know a web page in what the dumb is and like what you're actually doing with these these web components yeah maybe the funny thing is I don't know that you'd WanNa start here like you need to build some stuff had some before we really want to sit and look at web components go yeah yeah I want me some of that yeah right yeah which is also like y'all know that I do a lot with with teaching people still have to be supporting it at being new features but how do you do that in a way that makes like where you're not just adding to the technical debts were that upgrade some day so you can start like ease into it does not exist anymore so I mean we and we talked about this in traditional development models and client site development and so forth worth we hit a peak of complexity let code especially women had a code and it's so interesting to come in and try and write Java script today and use a modern framework that you know critters demand you have still don't do it but the great thing about the angular ecosystem is it's huge right like it would take so long to be an expert on like every won't go in and figure out how to implement fronton testing in the first place which included like getting web pack compiling the files in the way getting Karma setup and everything like that little little piece of that ecosystem but the great thing about unit testing is forces you to understand how working under the Hood said truly implement your unit has crime rate doing this in the in the web development world for a while it was NBC 'em Vm. That we're sort of the first hair separate some concerns and I I I'm just trying to figure out where we are in this arc for for Javascript essentially is are we at a peak of complexity are we actually starting to pull back so the great thing about modern angular is built in and it just works because to project energy projects I was so it's Kinda one of those things that forces you to really take a good look at understanding like you're familiar with zones in angular on chasing its tail being completely anaerobic and I feel like we've matured into like a little bit like maybe two to three year old golden retriever now we're still kind of chaotic but we have a little bit more of understanding it was drama in like even then like angular jazz at the time provided a really good way to test that they're still simplify I don't know I feel like again like the javascript community is so young it's almost like you know little golden retriever puppy that's been like running no we could do a whole nother podcasts on that because it's a very long story but it they rely heavily on it for changes that yes it's frustrating trying to cram all that history in the UAE in Milan on web engineer like what is happening what am I doing with my life so orb much near as much mayors right yet but he does it feels like so much like labor intensive work to get to the point of understanding how to write the tasks that it's just it was a lot of work and I feel like a lot of people take approach of building like web component focus stuff using angular elements to Bill do features that will work both in your English. As at but in a new vindication here what about testing harnesses and again we talk about sustainability a software what do we do you ever purchase you like Oh God I know Justin James has been doing some good Cyprus workshops yeah I've heard James Doing talks intersection on Cyprus action in so if you were trying to emulate like unit tests new I with different pieces of information by collecting for user it we're not quite ah I haven't yet seen much deviation outside of Karma inhaler community although what's the new thing everybody is talking about relate cited that I emiko change detection in your task unit has the things that you watch so yeah anyway Ayler huge huge ecosystem but the great thing about unit tests and how the world works and how we should function it yeah you're not actively try the idea that you would run around until you throw up doesn't happen there as much thank eulogists launch the Karma Milka I'd never remember like the Syntax language they're all pretty much the same to keep up with the names much understanding any the community and I still can't keep track of like all the tools going on ever like yeah it's it's insane it ends up servicing is like I keep hearing about this so I guess I'm going to have to do that and I feel like I'm picking sessions very much the same way at points although the other ingrate test harnesses for websites is not a trivial thing to do oh so the working on it I think I'm giving it intersections is about modernising allergy is just another way to do testing for web right it's another it's another good tool approach to it I'm just trying like we we put some much files together. We slaps in Java script on there were dumped them on files Ila we call it a day like that mental contested still like within a unit test that you're you're trying to test like these little functions that might be happening you have to have an understanding of that changed in action to be able to we haven't done a show around Cyprus we've done show around MOCHA and a few of the other testing framework it is interesting to think in terms of we're still feeling our way for is they force you to get in and learn about things that you might take for granted or not realize that are happening and you referred to Karma as the test runner for Apps in like I think at least twice presentation but definitely one of my last slides is do not implement a single technique I've ascribed unless you go to your team the what what is that what Cyprus I don't even know if I can give you a teal Dr. Because I've been swamped with so many other things that I haven't been able to even attend a single workshop for it what do you think like making a conversation about it not not you know the one I've got a new religion yeah I think I say that like what I want you to take out of the INSI- angry mom warning and domain mom angry you would like her which angry yeah awesome cool things that you might get excited about doing do not do them without express consent and buy in from your team the other people who will be helping you maintain this code but the good thing is keep hearing about the same thing enough where you're like okay I should probably go in

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