Philipp Steinbach CEO and Co-Founder of Game Composites
Speed up your number one big. Lingering dot com. Hello and welcome to the green dot is podcast for anyone and everyone who loves aviation my name. Is hal brian. And i'm the managing editor here at yay for print and digital content publications. And i'm one of your house and sitting there across the table. Socially distance and ready to go on the mike again. Our producer. christina baskin terrific and christina. What's your job title here. I'm are multimedia journalists. i know that. But who just making sure and christina. We've gotta guest joining us remotely Somebody that you've recently written written a story involving. So why don't you tell us who our guest is. Yes it's my pleasure to welcome philip steinbach to show Philip is the ceo and co founder of game compensates lockett located in bentonville. Arkansas philip welcome. We're glad to have you appreciate your taking the time to join us today. Thinking so philip before we get into talking a bit about The company and and game bird airplane I always like to get to know a little bit about a guests and visitors and things like that and understand your aviation background. How did you. First get in contact with aviation. Was it something you interested in as a kid. Anybody in your family and that sort of thing yeah. As a kid and started playing with motola planes was five six years old. At that time it was living in germany and grew up in the northern part of the black forest at that time was to entrance point for a low-flying area for military jets Thurs things coming through a garden. One hundred fatalists frequently and that deviated my attention from tractors and farm equipment to airplanes. Very nice that's D schwartz fault. Yes yup beautiful area. It is and that's the extent of my german. So i will stop trying to impress anybody. Well that was over my head. So i'm good. That's one phil. Why don't you tell us a little bit about how you met stewart the other co founder and how it became essentially what it is today so understood and i met about ten years ago in england running another airplane company at the tournament toy seller planes minister selling one and shortly after another one and the when he took delivery of their first. Airplane actually asked me to deliver it to arkansas. That is nine years ago. Meanwhile and so we got to know each other became friends and also my first time. I came here Quite liked what. I saw It's a great place to fly great place to live grade weather most of the time and so then a year later two years later i decided to leave extremely for various reasons and originally the plan was that We relocate extrema from germany to england built up an arabic center there with joe copa. The time was multiple times. You're uk national champion reported negotiating the purchase price for extreme at didn't go very well and stewart for the nfl of from the paper. That i was thinking about who to approach for approach for a program like this for a project like this. He was to basically i. I called also the one that came up with the best idea. Now we are partners in a business which is way better than a bunch of them and so we decided instead of taking away. Extreme metal restart the business from scratch to a new product. New company set up. Everything and i have zero regrets of this. It's been very interesting time to say. The least we started in office contain lincolnshire. Which is about the size of the little of sitting in right now. Progress into a disused fueled station to build the prototype. Which was you know from the outside related. Look like much but Managed the first airplane in there and completed type certification in. This moved to arkansas in a facility. That i was able to plan with an architect of build way. We were still working in england then restarted hiring in may two thousand seventeen and the now we get since yesterday twenty nine airplanes completed and flying where sixty people right now and More order so we're really really busy. Which is a very appropriate to have and company sped. I bet everyday. I enjoy getting up in the morning and getting to work every day which is probably as much as anybody can ever wishful. That's that's terrific and just for our listeners who may not have read the story in Sport aviation magazine a stewart. Your partner is stuart walton. And he is among things i've a longtime supporter. Va and serve on our board of directors. So we're we're very happy to have that That connection to stewart and And threw him to you. Happy about that too as you can. Imagine all right so philip. Tell us kind of the mission behind game compensates you and stewart. I started to get the ball rolling and talk to us about how you eventually Started come coming up with designs for what is now the gameboard so both stood an i when we met flew aerobatics in competitions stewart in the pits at that time and been poured an exit. Forty one forty two I started their design of the say. Forty one back in two thousand three We made about a few of those before. We realized we needed to see that there except for the two was eventually that airplane initially was marketed. As extreme three thousand than an exit forty one and forty two as almost as many names as airplanes. I do that sport. Sins also since two thousand rape have competed in a limited for a number of years and Of great memories of you know course still. I would still like it but a businesses has taken priority. Of course now. This is how how to to begin with ten when we decided to go into business together. I was not so much based on the excitement for the airplanes more than on the actual business case that is to be made for robotic airplane and the opportunity the actual opportunity to build a business aerospace business on a budget and that's may seem a little bit out of place in his context but one of my main things that i said early on when we talked about starting came composites together was i want to prove that always saying wrong that you need a big fortunate to make us more fortunate nation and this is this one of the inappropriate one of the worst things that happened in the last thirty forty years that almost very in from what i can see at least since i read magazines and sport aviation of course that fewer and fewer project actually get completed and so there seems to be an arabic plain to me. Is a project still a lot of work because you need to answer all the questions. That almost as many questions as a boeing to answer but it is other scale where you can successfully build business at at a healthy growth rate and learn everything that you need to learn to organise out organization about certification and so on and so forth to be prepared to retake on biggest tips from there and both alarm bishops. From the start where that we found game composites to build the game bertha was the mission. My had some kind of experience from flying from my previous jobs doing this but both of our ambitions are actually going a little further than this. Of course you have to take the first step before the second. That's why we started out with two people in the container number. Four people in the container and people in the little shop up to the stage where we are today. And that still i think the way to do it healthy and saliva berlin remain at some sort of sin sanity whereas if you look at people try to take to buy too much of the cake at once like on a greenfield. Try to build a jit. There is not a single successful example in history. Where some something like this ever worked. And i'm not saying we want to be legit but the game but it's been very rewarding and exciting experience far. It's been a steep steep learning from me moving from germany to england and entered to the us culture. Different sisters businesses are differences significant differences in how to run a business but after four years and again no regrets and looking forward to it. That's great to hear so it's interesting to me. You pointed out you you had the the business case and everything laid out So you started with a business plan and then worked on designing an airplane Trying to think how to best phrase this question but you know the game bird. The is a clean sheet design. What's the first thing you do. I mean if you were figuratively or literally looking at sort of a blank piece of paper. And saying i'm going to build You know sort of the next great aerobatic airplane and and certainly had some other features. Where do you start. What is what is your first day. Look like i. It looks like okay. How many people putting it so and says you know. Probably not for because it doesn't make a lot of senses too. Many sick box to carry one doesn't sell enough so kind of obvious choices to then. How do you place them side by side tandem and in tandem in case you wanted to enroll as fasting does otherwise you had banks through the window all the time and then the next question is what engineer pick. There really is only one choice nowadays on the market which is five eighty. I know that there have been various to seat. Four cylinder airplanes but If somebody asks me where cillian the standard answer is. You can always thought back. You can nibble get more police than you built in into the plane in the first place. So that's basically the start and that also gives you about fifty percent of the flying muscle already and then you design. Try to design the prettiest most useful back to carry two people in an engine around. That's pretty much job of nfl manufacturer so when we met in arkansas you mentioned that aerobatic airplanes had long been built for power and not necessarily ease of handling and your goal was to essentially do both which spanned tastic Can you tell us about your background and experience in arabic. And what things he kind of took away from the industry as you were designing this so over has been interested in plant Like i said earlier on and there's really nothing to invent in subsonic aviation anymore. Everything has been done so the big advantage. I think that we had with the cambridge worst that we had some experience. Plus where the budget to see through and this way and we took time so we could actually sit down. Compare existing designs look at available acknowledges. Look at what we actually want what the customers want. Not what we want and formulate this into into a job description for an airplane and basically you can. I mean this is a little bit to simplify it but you could take components from airplanes for the last eighty s. And they would on. They must almost make a game bird altogether already. Because there's like. I said there's everything has been done. And everything has been tested and we just took things that i found useful for this application and put them together and that goes in construction that goes into design certification that effort selection aerodynamics. Pretty much everything as cell already proven technology there so we haven't like broken any ground-air because that's another kind of golden rule in particular even worse in small aviation if you try to if try to do too many things at the same time. It's not gonna be a business so you know there's to sing new engine and you add frame is always going to be a disaster. In proven airplane approved f with a new engine could be a disaster. The easiest part to do with what we did. We build a new friend for an existing engine. and it. that's still enough work Probably seen that when you were here. Everybody in the building is fairly busy but it. It seemed to be the most feasible way to do this. And that's also well. My composite and design background comes comes in handy. I couldn't design an engine for example so one aspect that i found to be interesting to the bill does that. It is designed to stall abruptly but also regain airflow equally as fast talk to us about how you achieve that in the design and build of the airplane. So that's something which actually mostly comes from plains if you watch a jc has a very popular 'cause operate now flying in extreme flights crazy model. Those things they literally corner. That's not even a radio's anymore. And this is mostly achieved through lightweight construction also using composite even on mortals but also effort selection and conventional efforts are more designed for benign stall characteristics and a kind of shallow lift tracker even behind the store to keep keep lending survivable whereas everybody got plenty supposed to snap supposed to spin supposed to recover from snap very very precisely and also recover from a spin as precise as possible. That means you don't want any kind of hysteresis in the store. Meaning if you if you stole fifty degrees you want to unstall at fifteen degrees at five and This certain criteria apply to nfl of this program so data can do that and that was part of the experience from playing with other airplanes prior to designing the game bird and the wing actually works pretty well on this airplane also does is it. Creates what their plane has. That's why if you will walk around the game radio where notice. It doesn't have a stall warning in a little flap on the leading edge. Which rips up your finger if you try to wash too quickly and this is because the toss have natural natural stall warning for once and also it has such a low power loading that you can pull. Even it's fully loaded. You can pull out of a store without any kind of significant altitude loss or not close at all. That's that's remarkable something. I've i've wondered about with almost all competition. Aerobatic airplanes That you would see see on the circuit. I'm not thinking of many exceptions. If any in your opinion why they all tailed drivers. It's really moss and wait. Aeronautics makes the tender is lighter than swayed and the the arrangements of gravity and everything of or the the attempt to build the lightest possible airplane notably leads to this so the game is rather robust piece of machinery has to be able to withstand certain aerobatic maneuvers And when we were doing the factory tour with you you kind of picked up for example. A rudder and it was quite thick compared to like an average water that you would find an an aircraft talked to me about the design to make it as robust as it is so composites. Don't like low concentrations so the first thing you try to do when building something out of carbon fibre is to distribute the load over the largest possibly area surface and that means that in in terms of a wing for example it goes for any any material the other window stronger. It's going to be and the road is just like a small wing eventually. Essentially and the ace the speed at which you can legally fully deflect dorado is one hundred and seventy five knots cambridge. One hundred seventy five knots. You have around a thousand pounds genetic on the distributed over those three inches and that means if you want to do that many many times over of the life of the airplane they need so good idea to give it enough structure to essentially keep it in place all the time and the rudder and aileron on whatever you pick up. It is about the weight of a cessna. One seventy two control surface. But if you try to apply the same loads to undertake training airplane it'll just cease to exist so that's where the actual compensate engineering comes in out composites. A very different approach compared to middle plano to a witness plane because the load plus just have to look different. The deloitte introductions need to be different and Basically by applying what glide up left what other manufacturers have done as basically as thorough as we possibly could during the design phase we were able to produce an airframe that weighs about as much as the engine and landing gear together so the engine and let me go make about fifty percent of the empty weight of the entire plane and now everything is done in house at the factory in bentonville arkansas except for their components that made in australia currently. But we're right now. We are expanding and replant to bring the capability in house within an x. Six to twelve months. Does it take to make one airplane. So we're on three hundred and fifty combs reports it make one plane and then plus of course welding jason simply fixed So but The airplane is about eleven hundred individual components counting nuts and bolts and everything. Well that's really a really amazing now with three hundred and thirty molds All those all that material making these the welded fuselage or weld components coming in from From austria that you do have to bring plan to bring in house. How long does it does it take. How often is a new game. Bird rolling out your factory door so right now. It's about one every three to four weeks. We're trying to get up to two planes a month but the the biggest well or main objective is quality not speed. Luckily we're in a position where we can afford this and all right now we're focusing more on getting it right and getting everybody in the team trained up to deliver the best possible quality. Only when we're really happy with how everything we're extending we're gonna try to speed up and get twenty to get to two planes now not going to ask you to divulge any company secrets or anything but It's been interesting for us to see. How a general aviation activity has been in some ways impacted Certainly by the by the pandemic which is which is affected all of us around the world and so many different ways but in some ways. Generally vishnu activity is also flourished because it's it is a way to You can be socially distance you can sort of be by yourself. You can go and fly How has the pandemic in impacted you and and gain composites. That's one of the advantages of being in arkansas We never had to shut down to single day. Government has taken some very moderate decisions. I think part of it is that arkansas is not very densely populated to begin with have been. The outbreak itself has not been elsevier's in other places in the weather has been very favorable. Lost broke out in spring. It actually occur very very flat over most of the summer and so we kept working through the entire time. We had never shut down a single day up to today. Knock on wood and we had only. I think five or six cases in in our team and everybody came out all right after a week or two with with no long lasting effects on anybody. So we've been really lucky here and on the sales front it's been slow for the first tooth raymond's while everybody was insecure about were in a harvest would pan out to what everybody an individual but then it actually picked up Having talked to other general aviation manufacturers saves paypal That seems to be effected goes across the board in particular in the ah slightly foster played world simply because nobody wants to sit in and out nobody that can afford. It wants to sit in an ellen anymore. I think that's also a good thing for. Let's say use planes. Suddenly it becomes a viable option again to have something that is thirty years old or even older just as an alternative to an airline absolutely. Yeah so i had the opportunity to fly with you. While i was there and i briefly was able to take over the controls and one thing that surprised me was how light on the controls. It wasn't how responsive it was talked. Me about what. It's like to to fly one of these. Because i mean you you fly one of these almost every day giving demos. It's fun i mean that's the line it's to me. It's the ultimate fun toy airplane. There's a lot of airplanes that have more ramp appeal or faster or slower. Whatever you want. But a combination of Just strapping yourself to to tiny plastic books or the big engine in the front and having all day. Jalousie of one is that to me. Is there in the freedom of flight or the pure fun of it. There's really nothing that the plane couldn't do that. A pilot can do or the other way around pilots. The weak link. So that's that's one if they really really nice features of these more than everybody. Planes that The you can play with airplane as long as you don't hit the planet you're in good shape going somewhere. It's fun i mean. Of course you can sit in the back in something faster with pressurization it citra within you. Don't see us much it took. I took various cambridge around the country. In the meantime over done learn flying in europe and to me via flying still is the best way to see any place. I really enjoy it and see it in something like this is even better so it doesn't have enough space enough places to take the kids if i if i go somewhere with my own. This is my preferred mode of transport. I was really surprised. When i read christina's Story about the The airplane that how impressive. It was in terms of range and endurance. And things when you think about. That's just not something you think about when you a as you say when you think of the plastic box the engine on it Meant for for aerobatics maneuvers. Can you talk a little bit about range. And endurance is what those numbers are. Yes so two years ago. I flew the plane spectrum. Idaho customers places there and that was eleven hundred and fifty. Miles added that nonstop in five hours and ten minutes and had forty five minutes. Endurance left in tanks when it landed in pepperell and that was pretty much with no wind. Some tailwind the first hour. So then a little bit of headwind coming out of the hills into the flats around denver so pretty. It's that averages out just slightly above two hundred not true. That was between ten and eleven thousand feet. The airplane carries eighty gallons of gas and up their drinks like eleven in half gallons and does like a little bit more than two not. That's that was hitting altitude. Which again for a little plastic books isn't that bad. And what what do you use what you get for a useful load after the tanks or fall so the airplane is around four hundred pounds empty. Twenty two hundred pounds is max. Takeoff weighed in eighty-one gallons. Need to help me out here. Because i'm not really into those units at home are how many pounds or even gallant gallons is four hundred eighty six pounds. Okay so leaves room for two two hundred pound people okay. Great sort of that was that was impressive. That was live math. That's not something we normally do on the show. We don't do math problems but okay. Now you're ready for your next or alexa. Who's who's interviewing whom here. We're find out light of so sell philip. If a customer wanted to purchase through game compensates what can they. What can they expect You mentioned to me. I want point that you do offer proficiency upset recovery training When a customer comes to purchase a game bird yes. We include ten hours of flight training with the purchase of regain bird for us customers simply to keep insurance companies and customers and ourselves. Happy christian bolton hike onus robotics team and ripple areas fame has started to work it in january. He has five-year background of working for flight. Safety as a as an upset recovery instructor he has trained a lot of people on on On this type of airplane and has trained a lot of people information aerobatics. And he's now our main guy to to do that kind of stuff with got some very very good feedback from customers who work with christian. I like learning robotics formation flying from him as well. So it's been it's been really good. Diversity plays the business. That's that's great. That's nice to hear that That it's not just a matter of here's a check of the airplane and go on the way that ten hours Must go a long way towards as you said making everybody feel more comfortable It does lead me to another question. And that is if a pilot comes to you We sort of an average Private pilot may with a tail wheel endorsement but hasn't flown something Taylor that this high performance in maybe it's more champs and cubs maybe decathlon or something like that. I d have an idea of how long it typically takes somebody with that kind of average level of experience to get comfortable in the airplane. That is no real average drilling. Depends on the ability of the individual to learn new things. And i would say if somebody can fly who pretty catherine. Then it's really much unites a handful of landings and full of ours and the plane is actually not take off and land. I mean take off his four second thing. There's almost no time to do anything. On ending the main difference to piper cup flakes study doesn't stall when it sits down so the sits at nine degrees it stalls at sixteen which means you're twenty five notes above stall speed when you are two or three point landing that also means you're in full control. Nothing mush ao anything and doing flight tests and also here. I flew they apply to nearly forty notes crosswind which is absolutely no problem. Are you lots of lots of control for the left. And that's probably the only i would say challenge is the to deal too s. to well to learn their control for that's really the thing it's more initially when you start flying the plane. It's more like flying helicopter with fingertips and not like ham fisted. That's unless you do the more at them the easier it is essentially. Lets interesting and forlani so you mentioned doing doing three point. That's interesting that attitude being so much lower than than a stall attitude Do you do you have any particular rules to you. Always three point. Do you do three point than we land in crosswinds. Or what's your philosophy there. I mean i know this as many opinions as possibilities data. So i don't really have a strong opinion either one personally. I always three point. It's just a habit. Because i i think it's the best way to just how taller wakes me since a number of years and but if somebody wants to we learned please we learned if you pay for your brakes yourself. You know. come on a long long runway again. This is this is not an airplane where you need that you have to we land because you have a bit of course win because it's all always enough control to keep the thing on the runway. There's really no excuse not to and recently delivered in her plane to european own is one of the most prolific taibbi pilots. I would say in europa even wide as you choose collection decided to easiest taxiing airplane but he's flown tailed at least and so we put some work into this and then combined with big data in some reasonable sized disappear a recently good visibility considering the pacer configuration. It's really hot airplane parade and bacteria question about the type of person that we sell airplanes too. I think there's a bit of a shift in in customer. Focus right now for at least getting complaints by Paper to date pure. This is pure robotic airplane anymore. This hate to say that way. But it's almost a series of everybody up lanes you get you know a little light mice things inside you can uniquely good good seeds and paint and everything. It's not a achieve toy anymore. We're far away from thirty thousand dollars pits and this is by no means this being disrespectful to the pits but if somebody would manage to build a thirty thousand dollar airplane nowadays i would be very very interested. How they're supposed to work and to make a business wicks. I think the minimum you can you have to do is what we actually do. So that comes with a price tag and that unfortunately you know kind of restricts access to these airplanes to people with a big checkbook but to get to those guys you know that i mean. I've i've started flying competition robotics in my not. I don't know a lot of people who have done that level of sports when they were much younger outside of france which is states huge degree so the our focus in the development of the plan has been different but i also think that's a huge chance of making the planes more accessible working together with the communities out there like aarp as a very good example. Because we're talking with each other right now at this club. Element of has been has never been a thing as long as airplanes cheap but now plants have to be more More expensive to just meet environment. That in may be The regulatory side debate litigious side off. This is the the budget you have to deal with and then it starts to make sense to share airplane. An airplane is a very good example of where sharing can actually really work because nobody usually takes it away for a week and to the bahamas with it. Which by the way something we're about to do but it's a different part of the story but if you want to train competition i used to started out with four people owning an extra three hundred of Plan and we basically trained each other Which was great. We have hang coast. Which have the insurance which had the maintenance and that was for me personally was a i think. Still the best way to get into Let's say higher close aerobatics more than intermediate. Because i could never afford to the plane like this in my own but when you fly something that is let's say thirty thirty five thousand euros anuron dollars. That's not gonna take to unlimited anymore. So that's in this context Game composites williams might be out there to try to publish that sport. I think that would be a good way to facilitate Shadow ownership concepts club concept. At least would be in my opinion with people s talking about other than the guys who can afford it any way way when they do with it. And and philip. What is the price point for purchasing a game bird right. now it's hundred twenty five thousand dollars for the version. That comes as you the that you and i flew together. So it's got the key in it and eighty s beaten an isp on it good po seats in it for the money already. Which is nice. I think the options that we all fall in what be difficult to spend more than four hundred fifty in the plane and cut options are customizable for a customer purchasing a game bird. Hey mostly then you have a second radio that kind of thing. It's not a huge offering pipeline options or something right well that obviously that that that price point is is is well. Let's face it. It's out of out of reach for a lot of people but you made a great point about shared ownerships and flying clubs and things like that and it's it certainly Certainly competitive when you look at the landscape of brand new. Airplanes brand new airplane certified. Airplanes are expensive. And that's that's certainly why so Why the core of our organization is about Is about affordable flying and and why homebuilding has been has been at its heart for pre since the very beginning but but it's always exciting to see innovation. It's exciting to see see great ideas and and especially interesting to me when you said that maybe to paraphrase. You just a little bit philip. That the gameboard is really kind of culmination of Of the best of lots of other things that you've seen over the years how they come together but that that combination of a range and endurance with the the maneuverability in power is is Certainly impressive and obviously You guys are not Not having trouble finding finding customers when you're rolling rolling out every every three weeks and gearing up to do that Twice a month. That's remarkable. Yeah it's been quite the experience in the last few years him of admitting bacterial divide affordable flying. I mean one thing that i learned is that Cheap at planes on like cheap brain surgery you find out what's wrong after you should have found out. I appreciate everybody who makes the effort. But at the end of the day in everybody's even somebody who makes kids in the business because to to make it a business i took abe on Business has gotten the ball has been raised over and over again because essentially the nature regulatory bodies to make every occurrence transform every occurrence to law and that does that keeps raising the ball every day. In a you know the times are changing everything changes with it on. I think it's a good as pittsburgh's it would be would be designing and helpline today. And it wouldn't be for the same price that it was in the nineteen sixties or seventies simply because he would need the same amount of overhead that we need and Fixation and supply us in everything. Just look engine. Prices over the last fifty dave dave gone up for the amount that a new pits to soured in the seventies. You can't even blame engine anymore. Nowadays so this is this is all that stuff plus inflation cetera et cetera. Lists a lot of things. Why if you if you just say if you just compare the numbers. That doesn't complete the picture. Let's be like this and if you even if you look at an rv an rv is not the price of the ticket by time it's radiant done and the somebody has invested in said the modifies of his life into this machine. I would say quite an probably a significant amount of these bills could go to work the same time in probably just by plane off the line from us from somebody comparable actually lose money by doing this. That's not to discourage paper Payroll started the same way. it said. it's great. That's one of the fantastic things in the us. Did you can actually do this. Anti but for people who don't have time on what to put the work in say i don't have the experience i don't want cheap brain surgery you know. We offer a tank solution. That's excellent So philip is there anything you can tell us about. What's next for game composites at a reading between the lines. It sounds like you've got some big plans for the future. But i'll understand if there's nothing air-raided to share yet but any Any hint hint that will be gb in question for the now. It's going to be more game birds. That's the focus. And the whatever we you know we need to do the first before the before the second and We have completed Quite yet so. It is pretty exciting. We keep the yes to the ground and see what's out there are ideas of course but right now. Everybody's really focused on the job at hand. Which is doing what we're doing. And it's another fund most of the time and that's something you regardless of which direction the company is going to go. I have no intentions of giving that up on a robotics has been a focal played around in my life for the last fifteen years spent a lot of fun of course with fun comes frustration but a good side. Good sites by far outweigh backsides. And it's been hope for much more right now. The lost this week with katsuhiko tokunaga here from japan. Who is the world's most renowned aetna photographer. We've done some exciting formation. Things hopefully seat him soon. Yeah more to come in. It's been fantastic sofa and knowing stopping all. That's great While philip by we're just about to the end of our time today. So i wanna take a second again and thank you for taking the time to join us and also Big thanks to both you and and stewart for taking such good care of our team when they were down to visit Visit you in in arkansas. Hopefully everybody out there. Listening has had a chance to read. Christina's story and the christina. That's the march issue station. Correct march twenty twenty one. Yes that is the march. Twenty twenty one. I feel so we're always working on a working. Two months ahead so i always forget which is which but anyway. I have no idea but with that philip. Thanks so much once again for joining us. We really appreciate your taking the time today. Thanks for giving us the opportunity to show talk about the game. But i talk about the company and if anybody wants to come visit us you know we got. We got the website whale always happy to she. Applied share experiences and bill is a great place to be within a good have a great f. b. with a great restaurant in it. It's a. I think it's a good few stop in the heartland of the us so please visit us. That's terrific all right. Well thanks again philip. And thanks to our producer christina for stepping dot exactly away from the board's bringing the board with her and then stepping behind the mic Thanks of course Most of all to everyone out there. who's listening. We really appreciate all the support. All the feedback. You can comment on our podcast by going to our blog. Inspired ita dot org. Each episode has a page there with a common engine associated with it also always grateful for the reviews on itunes and other platforms. We do apologize to anyone out there. Any i tunes listeners who were missing a couple of episodes for a little while I'll will just say that. It turned out that there was a php configuration problem. That messed up our feet and we found it and fixed it so glad to have our tunes listeners. back Please keep those comments coming. You can always email us feedback at dot org and with that We look forward to catching up to you next time when you're cleared the land on the green dot.