Ep 398 - Wool, by Hugh Howey


This is a head Gum podcast while Andrew and Craig believe the joy of discovery is crucial to enjoying any well told tale. They will not shy away. From spoiling specific story beats when necessary. Plus these are books. You should have read by now Hey everybody welcome to overdo. It's a podcast about the books you've been meaning to read my name is Craig. My Name's Andrew. ooh And we're here to talk about another book just another one just like last week really feel like people are GonNa stop listening if we keep doing the same thing over and over again every week for hundreds and hundreds of weeks. You know if you've been out there since Laissez episode twenty he or fewer Leszno. We'd love to know why you're still here because we know here. What did we do? What Louis do right or what did we do wrong that you're waiting to see pay off? I'm not sure but what do we do every week on this here show. Oh every week on this podcast overdue. podcasts it's a podcast. We read a book one of us does and then they tell the other person about it and the listening audience gets to uh be along for the ride. That's usually how it goes. Yeah yeah this week. I read wool by Hugh Howey. You how hugh. Oh Howie which doesn't sound like a it. Sounds like a name from a comic book so good on him he yeah he sounds like the Kinda guy who's uncle got killed and told them about responsibility now. He moved in he moonlights as some kind of based vigilante always with the bug. Based it's like a bug or a small mammal sorta like an unexpected sort of hero. Sure and this book was recommended to us by one one of our Patriot supporters Melissa WHO said I'd love to hear you guys discussed? The book will wool by Hugh Howey. To one of my favorite SIFI APOCALYPTIC ELLIPTIC books. Thanks for keeping up such great book. podcast not sure when Melissa started listening. But let's hope it's from the beginning. I'm also not sure which book podcast. She's talking talking about what we can do. The one that we can do that too I will be reporting on the wool. We'll omnibus edition which is a collection of five stories from this universe. That Mr Howie put together. I've read it on my kindle which meant that there is a bunch of like animated gifts in it out of those render on. They're not. They're not Actually dislike gifts from the Internet. So there's art by Jimmy Braxton. Darwin Cook in here. And if you turn on the like I don't know what the advanced media or alternate media media setting is like all of the text has some sort of art behind it. It's not just like you're reading on on a normal like when I read on my kindle fire wire it's like white text on black background or something and this always it's like a full color image and sometimes there are images of characters and then sometimes those images could move I tur- one page and like a dude appeared like he just like a guy came out of the darkness on one patient. Save US me and it doesn't replay. He's just there now and if you go back he's still they're like okay. You can only experience it for the first time one time. I guess I mean maybe. I don't know how how it's programmed but it was certainly different than what I expected kind of kind of novel. I have not experienced a book like that was a novel. I see what you did there. A what do you know about Mr Howie Andrew. I know Oh that hugh how he was born in. Nineteen seventy five and wool in particular. But like he just his whole deal. He's from that era of the Internet where it was like you can self published a book. Sure we could self publish a book online yourself in the early twenty tens in. It's I was trying to think like what the what was happening around this time. Just like to us and our relationship with the Internet because you and I are like the last generation that really has any significant memory of a world before the Internet correct and so we I think still sometimes we are inclined to think of the Internet is like a thing that is separate from the real world and certainly. This was true through like nineties nineties and allow the two thousands is there. Were like there was like Internet stuff and then there was like stuff so you could be an internet writer and you could even get a real book published based on your Internet writings. But they were so kind of separate things. I mean sure Short Sean you had like an Internet personality in your real world personality and they were seen as like separate things and our understanding of things have evolved a bit. And that's as I think we can say that that's garbage in that that's bad. But this was published using kindle direct publishing which launched in two thousand seven to two thousand eleven. Was this the first one. Eleven was in the first I when the first of the five wool stories came out. And Yeah I was just I was just getting around to along the way saying that. This is a phase as where stuff to start to become books. Yeah like now stuff that self published like. We've mentioned it in passing but you don't get pieces in the Washington imposts and it's very very hard to find contemporary review of this book that does not mention fifty shades of grey a pretty much mentioned fifty shades of grey. Okay because that's the the era has for talking about people from forums or from the Internet right a thing and then it becomes a real book. Everybody's surprised that they were able to do it themselves. Okay this did go on and get like a real like a a non digital exclusive publishing deal though the reviews of the Omnibus Edition are offering twenty thirteen senior. Says I assume when it came out but before it was picked up by publishing house and before it was published in in real book format or like Physical Book format. Yeah yeah the five short stories that had been published Amazon had sold more than four hundred thousand copies according to The Washington Post and the film film rights had already been and never that never amounted to anything which is not uncommon like. It's it's pretty gallon for film rights to get sold in the know movie to come out but as of mid two thousand eighteen there were plans to bring it to AMC as a series now. I can't find anything since then to where that series is in the. Yeah but it's still somewhere that could that could work if someone's trying to make this a new movie stop it make it a TV show. That's what I'll say if you're listening whoever's are you gonNA make it it into a TV show. That's Kinda like a like a ten hour movie. Yeah those are good morning What else do we know anything anything else about him? I know that he owns a boat and I think he's living on his boat now for a decade according to have site he did a lot of he had a bunch of jobs. Bob's Washington Post describes him as Jack of all trades which I guess is a charitable way of describing a kind of midlife drifting drifting. But I don't know you like painted stuff. And then he sold a book and he was like Nisshin he was a yacht salesman or something that you're gonNA stop at yacht he was a ya on. TV maybe Yeah his website says that now he is like He. After sold this book he liked bought a cool boat and he's GonNa try and like circumnavigate the globe which spoiler sir. It's been done but good luck don't Shantelle has been done by jack-of-all-trades self published author like you how I don't think so they will. It's only only been done with the support of the big publishing houses sure of K.. I know he's a It's there's some ecological goal like climate change e stuff in this book. It's not as explicit. As a post apocalyptic work might might be but you you get a sense that he has he does have an enthusiasm for the natural world has written on his website. And then like you you carry that into reading in a book like this which is set in the future when the earth is crap and you can see the connective tissue there As we said this was published directly on the kindle their five books in the wool series that I read And he said that like all the reviews for those host I several stories or what created this and what created the rest of the series. And there's another there are another couple omnibus books Shift it is a prequel series that talks about the world running up to interesting stuff portrayed and wool and then dust is a sequel series series Talking about the end of this world it's like an apocalypse for the apocalypse and yet all altogether these stories are referred to as the silo series. Yeah that makes sense as it takes place in a big silo. That's buried underneath the earth. And that's pretty much. I stopped stopped reading there. Because I wanted you to have something to do. Great podcasts kind of you already. Then there's no point that's how it works. That is how it works works. You could just leave and I could just talk. It wouldn't be as they do that. Don't do that. We're GONNA take a break and Andrew Promise. Please come back pretty tired well listeners. We're GONNA take a quick break. Maybe Andrew will be here later. Maybe we'll see entered you like music. Yeah what you love about music that it sounds good. Sometimes music doesn't sound good. Some music sounds good. Other music doesn't sound good. I like the kind of sounds. Good well if you WANNA hear hear people talking about music. That sounds good Andrew. Good News for you. This week's episode is brought to you in part by one of our Patriot supporters Amanda and her co hosts at discord and rhyme which is a music podcast where they discuss their favorite album song by song. Eight rotating co host Take turns choosing a classic or favorite album talk about at one track at a time including background info the making the album and how they discovered it in the first place and they don't restrict themselves any particular era or genre. They've covered rock soul hip hop prog Rog and more it's available on all the pod catchers I tune stitcher Google play wherever you want it and they release a new episode every other Tuesday I think their most recent an episode was on meddle by Pink Floyd and then hail to the thief is coming up soon which is a radiohead album. I don't know very well so so I should probably check out. This episode actually have also covered. Yes and captain beef are and his magic band. It's voice voice catalog and Blue Wieser. They've covered a lot of bands. I don't think of as having made albums like these Benjamin made song. And then perhaps you release a bunch launch of other worst songs around that one song and you call out an album. Well all the more reason to go. Check out discord and rhyme. You can go to discord pod dot com for more INFO. Follow all them at discord pod on the social feeds and check it out every other Tuesday inder if the world was over or was about to be over as you knew it. What would you like to live in? What superstructure would andrew and well it depends on what you choose right if if I choose something that is only fun with electricity. Their Electricity Pity presumably you have a way to make some electricity. Yeah Okay I was. I was thinking like arcade but then I was like. That's too small why I would. I'd like to live in an old mall. I would love to live in an old mall. Having spent most of my life already in an old off the from the heyday of malls to not these ghosts. These newfangled ghost malls with all the anchor stores ripped out. No if you WANNA see what the apocalypse would look like I would suggest you drive somewhere in the Midwest and go to any mall. I would live in a mall especially if like enough clothes. Were still there and the equipment if the players were still open and we could go get stick on ear aches definitely yes and if the back chair if the massages if like the back massage is chairs the massage chairs would be. We'd have to hack them so that we would have to pay dollars hacking a massage. Josh chair massage chairs very important where the survival of arm all societies true. Well that's where we're going to be but that's not what this book's about this book is about a silo that people people live in It's unclear where the silo came from. And at first for a long period of this book I thought maybe it was is like a nuclear. It was converted like nuclear missile silo. I guess I I guess either that or it's like a the movie twenty twelve style l.. Scenario where it's just enough. People saw this coming that they were able to build a purpose built structure underground for this purpose. Hold onto that thought Andrew you because that's definitely the right so when I started reading this book I didn't know that it was five discreet stories. which which the way that some of the information gets meted out was surprising as I was reading it so I am thinking about that because you just guessed a little little bit about why the silos are there? The first story you're chapter. Whatever you WANNA call it is about the sheriff of this underground underground silo? Yes it has a sheriff Andrew. Of course it does and his name is Halston. And he's not having a good time. His wife died a few years ago because she had to go out and do a cleaning. If you lived in Underground Silos Society Andrew. What do you think going outside aside for a cleaning is I gotTA hang your laundry? The whole silos laundry on clothes on lines lines so it can dry out. That would be good if the Sky Orient ask you once a year. Oh yes we do. The one laundry load The Sky leaning meaning is mostly acid and dirt. So when when people go a little bonkers in the silo or commit mid heinous crime they are sent out for cleaning and Halston wife did one three years ago And he's about to do do one himself so how he loves himself a Tarantino esque like in Medias rests chapter opening okay. I was going to say he. He just likes to throw vampires. No book is oddly. It is not very supernatural. If that is a like a type of Cy I five words like alien. There's no aliens aside from the apocalypse. Having happened. Yes yeah yeah And so he likes six to like put someone in a dangerous situation and then you get a little bit of like I bet you're wondering how I got here and then like cut back and chapter so So the sheriff's wife went out for cleaning. He is about to turn himself in to go for a cleaning. Mostly because he's so grief stricken and can't like just hang anymore. He's just having a really rough time. Can't get over it he can't get over it And it's also pretty clear that she she figured something out about their world that Kana drove her to the brink and he's been sitting on that information also so when you go out for a cleaning of the the the information that that she found or the information the information that she knew something the information he does he know the thing he knows the thing they had a conversation about it or he knows that she is thinking about the world outside so this is the end of the first story. It has like a moment where it's like the world is not what you think it is. It felt really early in the book for that month to happen. Like I'm not sure what I think. The world is yet yet. I'm not sure what preconceptions I have the shatter. Yes so kind of a couple of reveals and I think big picture. I found the first first half of this book. Way More interesting than the back half is because like he was able to keep those reveals happening And and then I was kind of waiting for the ending. I could see how it's GonNa end and then it was like okay. Let's get through the adventure part of the story. Where there's there are fewer like information and reveals? That are that are clearly. What's most exciting about this book? Yeah that's interesting. I was reading a Guardian Review by Alison flood who says And other elements. Don't work so well. It's partly down. I think to the way that the novel developed started life as a very good short story. That story grew as readers fell in love the world how he had created an se wrote the tightness in the skill with which he began unraveled somewhat. He throws in a character who rings false. The love interest for protecting. We'll talk about later And while he mostly writes well sometimes he gets a bit flowery. At one point he indulges in some truly dire love poetry. Wait for me wait for me wait there my dear let let these gentle please find your ear. Oh man it did happen. didn't Ha- hugh the. Yeah that's A. I'm sure we talked about some in the in in the intro. But yeah he he wrote it and then as he tells it without a lot of like promotion or anything from him it took off with people and then he wrote more in response to it taking off so it's a little bit like that Book Pen Pal. Yes I Putu over this past cheer. And yeah the part where. He's the part where he had a story he wanted to tell it. Sounds like is the front part and then the part where he's writing more because people wanted on a more it sounds like might be the back part yeah and it it just it becomes a slightly different book and one that I found personally less exciting. So the what is really really compelling about the first story is Something in the history of this society which has been people living in this silo for hundreds of years has been kept a secret by someone There have been some. Somebody has been like deleting part of their history they do have some computers They don't have like a Internet right. They you can I m people but as we learn like later in the book you have to pay extra money to do it It's way like long distance. It's channel. Yeah it's cheaper to write a note and send it to someone to run down the giant central staircase in the society. You how big silo are we talking about at least one hundred fifty floors or so one hundred hundred fifty. There's no elevators thing is eighty non compliant a and I don't think there is an Ada Yeah that's very might not even be A. I just feel like I say if you'd stand there for decades if not even hundreds of years which they have you would at least install like a dumb waiter sis have a pulley system which does not exist so so like just maybe a shoot that rouse from the top of the things at the bottom of it so they above ground there are sensors that show show the outside world and in the top few floors of the society there are walls that are essentially giant video screens that depict the outside disaster world that you're in which is just like brown skies like dirt ground. You don't know what happened. But it's the apocalypse deal with it. What you want to see? That is it to keep people from wanting to go sort of. It's to be like okay. Well we can't go out there You know what it is and I made eight a cheek year note of this later in my notes. But here's a good time song about inky it is it. Is the the thing about earth not being ready from Wally Ali. It is the like it is. We can't go out there because it's dangerous so we just have to figure out a way to live in here and we're going to keep telling you that it's bad Out there so that no one ever thinks about going out there and so when they send someone out for a cleaning they go out there and they're usually usually some sort of dissident and you can watch the cleaning take place from the videos if you live and the top few there was like a whole class system of course This is closer to the horrible outside better or has better be those. That's where like the bureaucracy lives. There's a mayor there's a sheriff. There's there's a deputy sheriff there other whole building. There's one mayor yes there's and they have elections. I don't know who think that they would split it into districts Sunday. I think it's a few thousand people. So it's like South Bend Indiana or something. So she had a lot of like the mayor would have really really bad knee problems. I think after a couple of terms books from going up and down the Dang book to is all about a woman named John's who's been the mayor for a long time she's old and she has to walk all hundred forty floors and it sucks and she has a terrible time doing it. You would think an opponent would be able to capitalize On that in an election most people run unopposed ironically enough so sold mayor's so decrypt ultimate insider. She's been inside for so long. She can't even climb the stairs to deal with the problems everyday silo dwellers like like you and me face. This mayor's GonNa Promise an elevator. But how's HE GONNA pay for it so when you go out for cleaning your usually some mm sort of dissident and they they put you in a suit and you go out there and everyone does the cleaning. They always do it Andrew even though you think all they were a dirtbag dirtbag they didn't like the silo or whatever. Why do they always turn around and clean the sensors? Well you find out at the end end of this story when Halston goes out there to do the cleaning. He walks up the ramp. The airlock opens. There's like a whole thing. Where like the airlock as to push out a bunch of gas to keep the bad air out and then you have to get out of the airlock before the fire starts to burn all the bad air And he goes out there. Now keep in mind. His wife has done this before and before she went she told him that the people in. It new secrets that the people you need to know. I'm just going to say that to you because we'll come back to it and that's typical I feel of all. It departments in all organizations okay. Yeah so he's got this like his dead wife was like. Hey what if the our world isn't the real world he goes out there. Top of the Ramp Halston saw the heaven into which he'd he'd been condemned for his simple sin of hope. He world around scanning the horizon his head dizzy from the site of so much green green hills green grass green carpet beneath his feet Halston whooped in his helmet his mind buzzed with the site hanging over. All the green there was the exact hue of blue from the children's books the white clouds untainted the movement of living things flapping in the air. And he's like Oh man. The walls are fake. It was like he has never seen the matrix but he'd be like it's like the Matrix. They told us it was bad. Everybody's got come out here. And so he turns around and he goes back and he starts cleaning the sensors. And he's like you guys got see this and they start running out of air and he's having trouble so he's like okay. Wow does take my helmet off because as beautiful out here. He takes his helmet off and his helmet was a screen and it was lying into him and it is bad out there and he dies. World Sucks you're dead and I was like Whoa. What an opening to a book? This is pretty very cool. And that's the that's the story that launched the rest of the series right. It's a cool like double twist that I found pretty effective. The twist is that. Ah stuff isn't bad but then the double twist is. Actually it is bad. Yes and you're left wondering like why would that happen. Was To deal with the silos. What did did she find out what the people in? It know that we need to know about how the printers work or whatever and so then the second book. As as I said about the mayor and the deputy sheriff after Halston has died and they need to hire new sheriff of course because the old one got killed Yup and so she decides that she is going to hire this. Young woman named Juliet who works in the Mechanical Department. All the way down at the bottom of the silo so she's going to walk all the way down as the mayor she hasn't done it in four years and she is GonNa like you know. Stop and talk to people on the way. So that they're like `have save over me kind of she's it's her primary essentially and she does have to stop by. It Andrew to get them to sign off on her hire an it is essentially the deep state of the silo. Like there's a dude named elected bureaucrats pastors have all the real power. So there I think if I recall correctly the society follows The the legacy the order and the pact are like they're three Like documents that are not like constitution. Or something like that. But kind of like the Rubik's that they follow and I don't know that everybody knows about the legacy I know that a lot of people know like sub sub book called the law or something but. It is the keeper off of all this stuff and Bernard runs it. They get exemptions from like power consumption stuff. 'cause they're maintaining all these servers and nobody really knows what they do in there but they also prepare the suits for the people who have to go outside so that they can like be in charge of that and Bernard has a different like nomination for sheriff because he doesn't like Juliet because she had some shady requisitions acqusitions and the mayors like well. No I'M GONNA have my own sheriff because I can't be bossed around by it that would be bad and so she goes off to recruit Juliet Juliet negotiates like some sort of power holiday so that she can work a pump and then she'll agree to be sheriff and look at the end of that book The mayor is because Someone poisoned her presumably from it. Power struggle you know how it is you worked in. It you are poisoned anybody. This book to have the people who manage the computer computer labs and the people who did like the like the main support for clients have concentrator wars assisted. Men's were poisoning everybody all the time. Is there there is truth to that power dynamic though right of like you keep the pro. You are the keeper of the prophecies. You are the one who knows how all things work and not. Maybe that's not a thing that you hold onto because you're evil but just because people can't be bothered to learn how their computers work. You're I guess you did you enjoy working. It enter died. In retrospect yes And at at the time also mostly yes but you know all all jobs. I've learned after having a bunch of jobs for a few years apiece. I've learned that there's just like kind of a baseline level of mouth content that I just settle into and at my at my first. It job I that would that was the level that I was OK. His only at the second one that I acceded now. Sure that's fair. So the third book is like Juliet versus. It Juliet the new sheriff in town is going to drain the swamp and take out the deep state Not really she's going to investigate. Why halston died the the sheriff Again we get like Tarantino opening to this book where she is going to go out for a cleaning and you're like how could that happen. Well Anders she gets arrested twice in the second time winds up with her going out for who arrests the shariff. It sheriff's the short of. Yeah the well the deputy sheriff and who was in like a relationship with the mayor he takes his life and so there's an opening and it puts their man in as the deputy sheriff. So there's like a mutiny against her later in the book I see This this is like the last big that I found like really satisfying an interesting. Like reveal of how the world works which is after after Juliette has been sheriff for a little while after she has met her quote Unquote Love Interest Lucas. Who she meets at night? 'cause he's like sitting in the room with the wall. TV's like making star charts because it's dark enough to see stars sort of But sort of taboo. Because you're talking about the outside world so you shouldn't do that. No one does that Well how'd you have big video. Monitors talk about she her contact and it. A dude who used to work in mechanical sensors. Some information based on what. She was researching about the sheriff. That the the stuff that his wife had found was a program and the program Andrew it it is in sixty four bit color and the guy says why. Why would anyone need that much color? Because presumably they're all using like commodore sixty four like interfaces not even that there's like a a famous quotes that I think is a little bit taking out of context but like Bill Gates saying at some point and like the seventies or eighties. Why would anybody ever need more than six hundred forty kilobytes of Ram? Oh that's funny okay. If you don't know a- barium that's a lot less us as a lot less than whatever you're listening to this on and I remember like several thousand times. I remember in the nineties when it was like man. Do I have four megabytes. A good bytes of Ram heck. Yeah I could play Star Wars. Let's go on the machines that we got nine hundred ninety nine. We stuck one hundred. Twenty eight megabyte stick Aram in their thirty two. You megabytes stick that it came just catch on fire with efficiency it was like. Wow this computer goes now. It was real bad before but now it's actually okay so she learns that this program not only did it do sixty four color it could create images Andrew Whoa photoshop and and soon as I just find a Mac like an old man like old Apple Lisa down there it could project like video images basically she has. This dude finds the program that in her mind is what Halston thought I which is oh man. They could naked project anything on the walls and the outside world could be a total lie. And we'd never know because they could just be they could be put wooden. You know you'll logs up there and that's why he was so primed to believe the the green helmet helmet lie A little a little bit later is when we get she is she is also the one who starts thinking about wait a second. Why does all of the wise our society set up in a way where it's cheaper to send a man running down one hundred flights of stairs with a note that is for me too? I M someone why is. That's so expensive. Maybe someone wanted it to be expensive. Maybe I t is been controlling our lives the whole time and that leads her to to follow up on this like program lead where Dude writes back and he's like hey it's for thirty two thousand seven hundred sixty the eight pixels by eight thousand one ninety two is Xanax. Sensed you Anders Hagen say thirty two thousand seven hundred sixty eight pixels by by eight thousand one hundred ninety two pixels. Sure whatever they're like it's an eight inch by two inch screen with an incredible pixel density. Why would you need that? Yeah that's like a lot of pixel density. Yes as so she with a friend of hers from Mechanical Walker They put together that essentially this the resolution of screen. That could go in front of your face. I am like a vr tortoise and she also like this was a little. Oh I didn't really follow the argument as this was taking place but she has been complaining about some heat tape that they got in mechanical from. It awhile ago because it gave out really easily and like broke a whole bunch of machines and they she posits that it has been putting faulty. T heat tape on the cleaner suits on purpose so that the people die in a specified amount of time. uh-huh it's like a lot like he was because he was like running out of air right so the well his his eating it was saying. Yeah and so like like when she gets sent out for her cleaning her. Mechanical people have taken care of her. They've swapped out the bad he taped for the good he tape and she knows that the the visor is ally and she is able to survive out there long enough to find another silo. Oh ooh and so the back third of the book more that back like two fits hits because it starts in the Middle Third Story Is Her like in this other. Silo encountering another person Trying to to like figure out what happened to that silo because everything's gone to crap and then maybe reuniting with the people and it's like it's more decayed or less yes it's functioning less well than the silos you gain. Brady's the exact layout and it is clear there is she meets one guy there and it is clear that the same type of colony only used to live there but there was some sort of uprising in star Trek. These face nine at some point like mid series. They introduced use the concept that there was a sister station. Deep Space Nine at instead of being reclaimed by the Federation and Repurpose was just abandoned. Um and it was clearly just an excuse to use the same sets but just like stack a bunch of boxes everywhere and this is A. This is a band in this different this is. It's definitely a different a whole different place. That's been abandoned that we can set some dangerous stories and now sure sure the really camera egg like the establishing shot camera angles always had the station like tilted. Even though it's in space and there's like no orientation that that's how you can tell you can tell the difference between deep space nine in this other sisters too. It's interesting that you say. That's where they set dangerous stories because once she gets to this other silo and meets meets this dude who's been living there for decades by himself It becomes just like a sci Fi adventure story worry. That is a little less like her story is not the one you get more world building out of and I found that like I was kind of not as interested interested like she's going deep underwater in this suit that she that she built So that she can try and turn on a pump to drain all the water. So that that maybe she can make this silo more liveable or something And the individual details are like interesting And Kana clever like the kind of obstacles was that she has to deal with but it is not the same as a character like learning more about the world around them which gets shuttled over to the class class warfare uprising. That happens where it's it's been foreshadowed in this book that every generation or so. This might happen happen and it goes south and then like the culture works to make everyone forget that it's happened Mostly the people in. It you're we're doing a lot of work but There Fateh gas I feel like the original. It people made might have been like whatever government officials or something Karan this facility in the first place. Yes they made just maintain that that power as they let the people under them form. Some I'm kinda system to keep themselves busy and to take care of like day to day stuff yes and you also like they instill stratification where they are up in like the thirties and all of the people with any sort of engineering and mechanical know how have to work and live down in like one hundred and forty so they're very far away from kind of their like people who might people whose work they could maybe check or like asking questions about or things like that and so. This uprising happens which is again at like a big action packed. Part of the book that I was just like yeah. People are Dyin Ryan and shooting up stuff But one of the speeches that happens. It's one of the leaders. I think of the supply people is like talking about how the middle all class of the silo is like the worst of them all Why are you so riled up she says because you lost a good friend that happens all the time? No it's because you were lied to and the toppers is will feel this ever more keenly. Trust me they live in sight of those who've been lied to it's the mid's the people who aspire upward without knowing and who looked down on us without compassion hashing that will be the most reluctant so just a real attack on the falseness of the middle class silo. Sure you do get in the mayor chapter you get like she wanders through the like sixties or seventies in. It's like a big open air bizarre or something where people are just kind of trading stuff off and they're not really worrying about outside world or the running of the silo they're just kind of living their lives and how he kinda paints all those people born in negative light buzzer. Yeah so the the last bits of building on you remember which one. which band was that Andrew? It was not marcy playground it was not sixpence and under richer. MC UH-HUH MC. I don't know who that and I do not know that Google thinks that album that the song was on was. Now that's what I call Music thirty four. So obviously the rest of ABC's work has been lost to the algorithm. Sure no word on what there's really we know where to what music people in this world listening to. Unless I missed something but I could use some information about that anyway. Find old cash of now. That's what I call music. CDs His hand. That would be what if that was the good. How and get on that? Okay Yeah The the extra world building we get in the back half of the book is through. You are man. Lucas who again that review you mentioned is like he's presented as a love interest for her. They do reunite at the end of the book. They we do manage to talk via radio one when she's in the other silo but I don't really a bioshock situation. I don't really buy a connection except for the fact that like they're just you know to people who sorta see the world differently and I I don't know that he he how he is less US interested in that and I think he's doing it because he knows it could be a hook for readers but I don't know that it is his strong suit Lucas gets recruited recruited by the head of it to become the next like keeper of it. Which means that he gets locked in a room with a book about the before times and is like forced for weeks on end while this uprising happening and like people are fighting in the on on the stairwell? He has to sit in there and read about like why. This is the way this is what we do about it and why we need to maintain the silo. Oh He is also told that there were fifty silos and that they were put in place as an act of preservation. He does have a radio phone call with a dude who seems to be in charge of all the silos. We don't we don't learn much more about this. Maybe it's covered in the books The Operation Operation Fifty of the world order. He calls it. Yeah that's the face I made. It's a little did an. It person right this. Because that's the only way I can. I can square the ultimate power that how is decided to give give the it people in this. Actually they're the only people who really know what's going on. So the the little seen we get between Lucas and this shadowy. How do we figure is like him? Being like how did this happen. And he's like do you really WanNa know he's like wow you tell me what you think. He's like well. Something Bad Dad was going to happen to the earth and we were able to prepare for it or someone was and I guess if you really think about about the only way to have prepared for it as effectively as we did is to have caused it doen't on So again we don't really know. So what exactly did happen. Bernard goes on to say In his like big scene where he just is the most middle manager ever where he's listen. I didn't choose to live in this silo and be in the apocalypse but by Golly I'm going to keep the rules 'cause that's the only way I can maintain power. He says they he's talking about whoever set this up. They might still be doing it for all. I I know like bombing parts of the world where survivors. Nobody talks about. How long it's supposed to go on? There's fear that small pockets survivors might be holed up elsewhere around the globe. Operation Fifty is completely pointless weightless of anyone anyone else survives. The population has to be homogeneous and he gets cut off and he goes on to talk about like someone had a plan and a powerful country was coming to its end and they decided that a way to preserve their way of life would be to like scorched earth everything else and force people to live in a resource scarce society where their experiences would be so similar in tightly bound that they wouldn't be able to come into conflict with one another so in that context fifty is an interesting number two pick. Yeah it's definitely America American family did it That they do have a map and three of the silos have gone south So there's only forty seven left You don't find out any more about that but the the like Bernards Kinda crappy argument of like. I didn't choose to be here but I'm GonNa make the best of it is on the flipside actually. Also the heart of the book from Juliet's perspective. She's talking to Lucas on the radio on the radio and she says none of us asked to be where we are what we control is our actions. Nations wants fate puts US there I guess like this book made me think about some like climate based apocalypse scenarios. Even though I don't think the book is about them and I think like what level of forgiveness it is necessary or not even forgiveness but just like blank slate is necessary to come out an honest solution There is a certain part of the conclusion of this book which is a like people start spreading the word about what really is going on and there's a threat that there's going to be more or information shared but it's really like a thing that gets brought up again and again is like how much of clean slate do you need to come out. And honest solution in order to effective solution and how he seems to be presenting that for both the good and a positive angle and I just when I think about it and a positive. Oh excuse me a good in a bad angle. Sorry okay so he seems to. He's using like he puts that now he only sees the upside. He puts that logic in the mouths of like both protagonists and antagonists. But I'm trying to sign it they And I think about that in terms of like how much ECO terrorism am. I comfortable with as a person facing climate disaster. How much like what do we need to? What do what do who do we need to blame? And who do we need to just like get on board and what's the difference. And what are we supposed to do about this big existential problem Because that that was a thing that was like batting. Or if you wrote this story now I don't see how you could put that in the background background if this was some of the stuff you're interested in like this in twenty eleven things were obviously bad and people were raising warning signs. It wasn't like top of the line news using the same way and while it didn't I By twenty eleven. I guess I don't I don't know I. I know that in the twin like the two thousand eight presidential campaign there is still a sense that it was an issue that both sides could agree wasn't issue sure and that and that. The solutions just differed whereas now it definitely feels like there is a there is a deeply entrenched like a half of the a country that chooses to believe that it isn't a thing but it just isn't something we need to worry about and so things feel much less possible. Yeah yeah in the way the things always feel less possible and there's just like a basic set of facts that people can't and so this book is definitely on. This book is definitely about like I know. I didn't mean to like surprise. Bummer you but it was definitely always always always just a couple of thoughts away from his surprise brize boomer. Well I just like this book other books have done this kind of like not even necessarily post I was thinking of the giver a lot while I was reading this book where or like stories where they tell you see people are givers. They are they do they keep the memories and then they usb stick and then you have their memories Where you're told the world is and can only be one way? And what are the forces maintaining that illusion and what is the cost cost of breaking that illusion like that is what this book is about at its best and at its worst. It's just taking a long time to get there and and so I was. You know I found myself thinking a lot about like the climate thing and also the the whole like putting them in silos. I don't know if you were able to find anything interesting. It was reminding me of off the like the seed projects where we are like somewhere in Iceland or in Scandinavia. We've stored a bunch of plants. Seeds seeds in the event that things go sour like in a giant refrigerator is out of there is a I mean so the Svalbard global we'll see vault is probably the one that you just like a C- a seed bank or seed library is a thing that exists in a lot of places that global seed vault this is kind of a backup for though. Okay yeah which is what I found was looking. I just found what what level I'm curious. What level of interested in survival ISM are you level interest is? Maybe I should own like a water filter and know. Oh how a gun works. Yes but I haven't actually acted on my level of interest is I will talk to anyone about bug out bags ask but I have yet to buy a bug out that area okay so interested but not not at an actionable level or at the same level of okay reading about survival. Azam is interesting because it takes a lot of different forms based on like the stuff that's happening in in time. Hi Yeah it has its roots. I think in the post World War Two bomb. Yes yes scare. Bomb feared stuff but then like through the seventies seventies it becomes about like the monetary system collapsing and then there's like a Y2K phase. And now we're getting into sort of a climate change phase and just who ooh. I don't know if we've talked about on the show before I was talking to somebody about this week when Y.. Two K. was about to happen. I went home for winter break that year. I did think very strongly to myself what if Y2K happens. I'll have to go back to school. That was a real exciting eating thought. I had as eighth grader. Who didn't want to go to school and there's a twitter going around not that long ago? About how y two K was overblown and then there are a bunch of people saying no. Why'd you K- was an example of a thing where we identify a problem? Then we solved it and then it wasn't a problem is it's very much like a vaccine thing where you're trying to prove a negative. Yes yes yes yes well. In the instance of why do gate. It was a problem that we created the two similar to a problem that we're exacerbating now with climate change. Anything that computers would exist for more than four years. Anyway we're off topic. We're talking about survival. Ism I guess yeah I have their. This book also reminded me of an episode of one of the like isn't are but these houses wacky shows on net flicks where like a dude was buying an underground like tunnel to go live in and a mall of his rhetoric. Rick was very like well when the plane start falling out of the sky. Like I'm GONNA be somewhere. I can play board games with my family like listen. This is where I'm going in a B. So I got by this track. Land that no one else can find. Make sure your cameras don't show any addresses and that stuff kind of weeks me Out because I those are. That's a person I don't want to be in one of these silos with because they've already made the choice that this is necessary as opposed to I can share their stuff with me. They hate me. They hate me. At my tree hugging life my unpreparedness. Yeah yeah. This book made me think about a lot of stuff outside itself and I think the reason I like found my mind not wandering 'cause it was still tied to the book but the the fact that Juliet who was a compelling main character for most of the first-half kind of gets relegated to an underwater Tehran adventure and I very strong negative feelings about deep sea diving underwater terror adventures. What they call the Poseidon Adventure in Japan? There's a there's a level. I don't like going underwater in the game shadow of the Colossus Andrew. And you can't even go that deep under that water I hate. I don't like dark water that I can't see in free time. I tried to Snorkel with scuba diving like whatever is like twenty feet under the water that of like one foot under the water and I did it and I knew that I wasn't going to like it but I was gonna do it because Suzanne wanted to do it because I thought I would be fine and I was not fine. Oh I don't want it and so I was reading that part of the book being adult. Want it and that's that's on me. I guess But I wished that she had been part of the Lucas learns about the shadowy figures scenes. And not just Lucas. Because he was just kind of a cipher for that information. And you've got it. You got a better. You better read on her perspective at that. Yeah so I guess it would be a more interesting set of eyes through which to process that information. Yeah and then I can also see you know the discussion about this. Maybe becoming becoming like if you're going to adapt this story or these sets of stories it would work better as like a walking dead esque. AMC Show even the walking dead is clearly run. Its course I where you do need multiple perspectives to kind of flesh it out I see what people dig about this because the world building even four four. Yes it's another post-apocalyptic people are trapped in the thing story. The characters are pretty distinct. An interesting I love evil. It he department as an anchor device for the world. And I think the like questions of why you would keep this this prison running and the reality like the mechanisms to maintain alternate realities are were pretty interesting. to dig through. I don't know anything else that you WANNA talk about. No I feel like we've done. That's fine I wish. I wish that he had he gives a few nods to the fact. Act that there's some sort of religion and that may God great like people believe that God created the silo for them That's very under explored. I I hope that in the other books he at least least pays like some sort of lip service to like who concocted that story because it seems like a pretty big one that God will build a silo. Hello in the ground for them and give them computers. I guess especially when there's so much evidence like existing evidence to the contrary. I guess I'm just complaining about how religion works as a concept. It's yeah it just doesn't it. It seems the other thing. This'll be my thought. The closing thought the other like because you learn that things are not what they seem so early but it's very clearly like of just future version of our world. My experience as a reader was like waiting for each shoot a drop of like. Oh this is how it relates to actual factual history. Oh this is how it relates to it it being America And then having kind of a little snippets of like an underwritten God myth or something. Something rings a little false in contrast any who if folks want to tell us where they would live in an apocalypse if they have their choice. What a terrible sentence you can tell that to us email us at overdue potty? Go DOT COM or twitter and facebook dot com slash over a lot of folks reaching out in the last week In response to all sorts of stuff including our great episode about Vampires. Sr podcast last week. thanks to side Pimm rain. Aaron Dominique Graham Allegra has Ricky Kit Blair Katie Ben and many more Andrew folks. I WanNa know more about the show where they go. They should go to overdo. PODCAST DOT COM. which is their internet website up there? We have links to apple podcast. Google play and our RSS feed we are also on spotify and on citrus subscribed to US using any of those fine services and written reviews in Apple podcasts. To let us know how you feel about the show We also have links to the books that that we have read and are going to read and we'll have our February schedule up there pretty soon. I know we know what I'm reading but I forget what it is. The wind on gone on by. Who Else Randall is that right? Yes that's right. I got it didn't even have to look it up. I just knew nice us all right everybody. Thank you so much for listening until we talk to you next week. We happy That was a hit them podcast.

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