The Confirmation Of Brett Kavanaugh
This is one A.. I'm Joshua Johnson in Washington Washington. It's been more than a year. Since Brett cavenaugh and Christine Blasi Ford testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee. She offered a troubling account of a man. Who would would become a Supreme Court justice and account the Cavanaugh denounced angrily and tearfully the confirmation hearings riveted the country but what was happening behind? Hind the scenes was just as dramatic. Kavanagh's confirmation was the culmination of what Washington Post columnist Ruth. Marcus calls a multi decade effort by conservatives conservatives to control the courts. Her new book is called Supreme Ambition Brett Cavenaugh and the conservative takeover and she joins us now in studio to discuss ruth. Marcus welcome to one A.. Hi Thank you for having me Ruth. We marinated in the cavenaugh confirmation for a very long time time. Some of US still haven't gotten it off of us. Our fingers still have that Prune. Look that you get when you're in the pool for too long because we were waiting forever and ever. Why go back Mike over it? Don't we know the story. Oh so great question. And it's a question that I had to dress for myself when I decided to write this book. Because did I still want to relive this. And the answer is a twofold and it's the reason I wrote the book. The first is that I thought and it turns out. I was right that there were going to be dramatic stories. Not just of what we saw on the screen that riveted us It felt like forever but it was actually fairly short. Condensed danced period of time but it was an emotional period of time. I thought there were would be amazing. Behind the scene stories of what was going on in the Cavenaugh camp and the white eight house in the Senate among both Republicans and Democrats and with Christine Blasi Ford and others who accused Justice Cavanaugh misconduct. And I was right there. Just we'll just delicious Little moments throughout this book. I think the second reason which is equally important is not to make people relive this moment but to set it in the larger context of why it's important and the answer is long after we're done on with impeachment. Whatever happens we think we know what's going to happen long after we're done with the election and Lord knows what's going to happen with that Donald Trump's legacy is going to be the federal courts general and the Supreme Court in particular and the two justices so far that he's put on the Supreme Court and so understanding standing how Justice Cavanaugh fits into that as you said decades long conservative effort to cement control of the Supreme Court Conservatives were frustrated for years in their ability to get this done justice? Cavanaugh was their opportunity. They were not gonNa let this one be squandered and hit that larger tail and the significance of having that fifth vote on the Supreme Court for Conservatives is what really makes his story worth telling and understanding one of the things we learned from. Your book is one of the details about how Brett Cavanaugh went from not being on the list of potential Supreme Supreme Court nominees to being at the top of the list. Let's break this in the pieces. First of all. It reminds us what this list was. And what was significant so this list was donald trump's pop possibly. There were a lot of unusual and innovative. Shall we say things about the trump campaign but one of the most effective. Was this list that then candidate trump came up with every presidential candidate probably has at least a notional list of shortlist of Supreme Court nominees. Donald trump did something completely different. He not only assembled this list but he made it public and he made it public for a very specific reason remember. This came up at a time. When there was a Supreme Court vacancy a Supreme Court vacancy? That should have gone to judge. Merrick garland nominated by President Obama after justice. Scalia died in February of Twenty sixteen for the fact that Senate Majority Leader Mitch. McConnell said and flat out refused we're not gonNA hear your nomination he might be on the court at yes. And if I believe and I think that Senate Majority Leader Mitch. McConnell believes and president trump believes that. It's very possible. Had it not been for justice. Scalia as untimely. Death had it not been for McConnell's decision and outrageous decision. I believe to hold that seat open. Donald Trump would not be president today and the reason for that add. Is that for a group of Republican Voters Social Conservatives Angelico voters the Supreme Court is and the courts in general are a a major motivating factor and they had enormous doubts Real doubts that had a foundation in his past about whether they could trust donald trump trump to fill this seat and so when he came out with this list he actually came out with two lists of shortlists candidates during the campaign that really helped voters that Donald trump needed to get over the hurdle and to get into the presidency that really helped to satisfy them but for break cavanaugh. There was a big big problem because his name was not on that list. So how'd you get on the list. That is a great question There were two reasons that he wasn't on the list of the first reason or lists lists plural. The first reason was that he had a Bush problem in particular with the candidate and then president trump. He not only had been nominated to to the federal bench by President. George W Bush. He had worked for five years at worst elbow. He had married President Bush's secretary who was like third daughter into the bushes and as your listeners know and understand The Bushes and president trump do not go well together. Some of them had famously. He said they didn't vote for him. Donald trump had run against Jeb Bush. He I bushy was not the Kinda guy and certainly not a swamp creature. Brett Cavanagh dog grew up inside the beltway. He was the son of a lobbyist. That was not the profile. He wanted but judge Cavanaugh. Veg Cavanaugh had another problem. which was those same conservatives who were nervous about President candidate trump? Were actually a little bit nervous about Brad Kavanagh. So when Leonard Leo all of the Federalist Society WHO President candidate and then President Bush kind of designated as his judge picker in chief presented his initial shortlist to candidate trump bread. Kavanagh's name was not on there because conservatives were a little bit nervous about Judge Cavanaugh most flagrantly from their point of view he he had failed to strike down obamacare. The affordable care act as a judge on the DC circuit so he had a Bush problem and he had at Ah Bush problem with trump and he had a conservative problem with some of the Conservatives including Leonard Leo and so the answer to your question about how he managed managed to get on the list was a campaign was mounted on his behalf and one of the most effective people in that campaign was none other within the justice. He ended up replacing justice. Anthony Kennedy why Federal Society is a think tank. Here in DC conservative Libertarian think-tank conservative conservative. Legal think tank that grew up and became the most effective organization to provide ride the legal organizational and with associated groups financial architecture to make sure that no other Republican nominee would be. We would go down to defeat. Like judge Bork was in one thousand nine hundred seven. What was it about Brad? Kavanagh that Justice Kennedy liked a well. Brad Kavanagh was justice. Kennedy's favourite clerk He was one of justice. Kennedy's most Successful clerks went onto a very prestigious job and a stellar career on the DC circuit and justice. Kennedy had in mind from the moment. Republican president was elected even though that Republican president was not a Kennedy type Republican president in the former president trump Had in mind leaving he I tell the story in the book about an elite Washington. Dinner Enter called the Alfalfa Club that occurred the weekend after the president was inaugurated. When one of justice? Kennedy's sons approached Kellyanne. Conway said no one was happier about the election results than my father and Kellyanne Conway took that and reported it to the president. As a signal that Justice Kennedy was inclined to retire higher and the trump White House did everything they could to get justice Kennedy comfortable with the idea of retiring including naming another other one of his former clerks justice core such to the court and at that moment of swearing in justice. Course such justice Kennedy and my report. This in the book asked for some time alone with the president and he essentially communicated to him. Okay you have this list. You've promised to pick only from this list. But there's a problem there's a name missing. You Might WanNa take a look at Brad Kavanagh. and Lo and behold a few months later judge Kavanagh's name appeared on a new expanded list. Now now this adds another dimension to Justice Kennedy known as a swing vote. This is the same justice Kennedy who wrote the majority Opinion Burger fell. Hodges which ruled that same. Sex couples have a constitutional the right to marry same justice. Kennedy Right. Well there are kind of to justice. Kennedy's the main Justice Kennedy. It's really important to understand is a conservative -servative justice and a loyal Republican But he was the swing vote on the court and there were critical areas in which he he deviated from and disappointed conservatives. Remember Justice Kennedy was picked. Only after Judge Bork who had been the icon of a UH of jurisprudence of original intent was defeated. It was part of the frustrating from the conservative point of view series of defeats. It's and missteps. That prevented them from assembling a really solid conservative majority but Justice Kennedy on issues like abortion on issues like affirmative action on issues. Most famously gay rights was a disappointment but nonetheless was a conservative justice and he wanted to be replaced by a Republican very much each. WanNa talk more about the role that Cavanaugh has played on the court and about the confirmation when we continue with Ruth Marcus. Her new book is called Supreme Ambition Brett Cavanaugh and the conservative takeover definitely have to talk about the impact of Christine Blasi Ford. And what some of your reporting has revealed about people peripheral professor for. We'll get to some of your comments as well. I'm Joshua Joshua Johnson and you're listening to one A. from WMU and NPR support for NPR. And the following message come from rockies Rossi's are stylish sustainable shoes made for life on the go carefully crafted from repurpose plastic water bottles rockies are fully machine sheen washable best of all. They're comfortable and have zero break in period. Thanks there's seamlessly. Knit design plus brought these always come with free shipping free returns and free exchanges. You'll quickly discover why buzzfeed called them there. Forever shoes rotties are available in a wide array of colors and patterns earns find your perfect pair at rockies dot com slash one day. We're wrapping up twenty nineteen on pop culture happy hour by looking at everything everything we saw and heard this year and choosing just fifteen favourite. Things could be a song a moment a movie. Anything we think is the best of the best of the year here are picks on pop culture happy hour from NPR. This is one A.. I'm Joshua Johnson. We're speaking with Washington Post columnist. Ruth Marcus her. New Book is called Supreme Ambition Brett Cavanaugh and the conservative takeover. We've heard from some of you how this political shift on the Supreme Court affects you. Here is what Ashley Clifton. Our inbox the switching. The Supreme Court moving more to the right has brought a lot of uncertainty and fear honestly into my life. I'm a lesbian. Being a mom I have a daughter about a year old. Also I'm I'm not protected at my job. I live in a red state and the fact that I could lose my job just for being gay. Hey It's it it brings fear and is sometimes unbearable. Actually thanks very much for sharing that and it is worth noting that there are many states in which it is still legal or certainly not banned and by law to fire. LGBT people simply for being LGBT or discriminate against them in housing and that's one of those legal issues that some hope will make it to the Supreme Court so definitely understand. Why Ashley feels that? This directly affects her with regards to Ashley's comment there. Ruth when she refers to the switch in the Supreme Court I think that the Supreme Court has had a conservative complexion before. So what makes this push to move the court further to the right different sprint than say in the past What what makes it different? Is that in the past. There have been a number of swing or swing ish votes on the court as I was saying Justice Kennedy was a very reliable conservative except in a few critical areas might take them off. Abortion worship rights. Gay Rights -firmative action those are the the critical areas and as president trump has been able to add one very very conservative justice justice core such to the mix And a pretty much keeping the status quo with replacing Scalia. Eliya now the switch from Kennedy to cavanaugh is much more significant because on each of those hot button issues it is a it. It seems to me highly likely that justice cavenaugh will be significantly to the right of Justice Kennedy and in particular to Ashley's question the specific if it question of the status of legal protections for Gay Lesbian and transgender Americans is front and center before the court this term. The court heard oral arguments and will decide by the end of June weather. The nine hundred sixty four civil rights act which protect which prevents employers from firing people on the basis of sex or gender includes protections on the basis of sexual orientation or on the basis of being transgender. Those are two separate cases There there are questions about whether if you read the text of the statute which is what justice. Scalia told his cal his colleagues and lawyers to do whether that would include those protections ends. But I think that the advocates of four protection are a little bit glum about their chances there. So I can't can't give Ashley in a red state a lot of solace in terms of her anxiety because I think it has a I think it's well founded. Let's get back to the complexion complexion of the court a little bit later but I want to get back into the story of the confirmation particularly the big story. Line that kind of ten polled the entire narrative which had to do with the testimony testimony of Professor Christine. Blasi four during the Cavanaugh hearings. We remember that she described having been as she puts it assaulted by Brett Cavanaugh when they were both in high school at a party there were many parts of her testimony that were extremely riveting his just one very brief clip. I tried to yell for help when I did. Brett put his hand over. My mouth stopped me from yelling. This is what terrified me the most and has had the most lasting impact on my life. Life Ruth you learn some interesting things about what was going on behind the scenes with Christine. Blasi Ford's testimony including reviewing some of the people who who also knew her. That you know may or may not have been able to corroborate what she testified to well. The the moment of that testimony was so searing because it was so real in fact she had not really rehearsed that opening statement before her lawyers. She wanted it to not sound rehearsed rehearsed. She read it out loud to herself in her otell room that night and then again waiting to go before the hearing and her one of her lawyers. I said I'm thinking now you're practicing now. You're practicing because we're so used. I think one thing that was so powerful about her testimony was that we're so used to rehearsed witnesses and this was a witness and you can hear that in her voice who's emotion was so raw. She really didn't want to be there. This is a woman who would get nervous at the start of her statistics. Six class About performing in front of students that she didn't know and there she was she didn't even understand fully just didn't really take in the notion that this would be televised nationally and millions and millions of people would be watching her so the the lack of rehearsal that that she did and she brought up. Those scientific words like indelible in the hippocampus that her lawyers have actually advised her to stay away from because because who could possibly understand that but it made her that much. More real will also conferred some credibility in a way. Because they were talking about her recollection of certain events events and what that means and because she had studied the psychology of trauma she was able to say that these instances sear themselves in the mind in such a way that their emotional no memory rather than intellectual memory. But that doesn't mean they did not happen right and to be Fair and accurate there were many aspects of that evening that Christine Christine Blasi Ford did not recall whose house it was at where it was precisely so that was a question with her testimony but as her lawyers told me. If you'RE GONNA MAKE Cup story like this and to be clear I believe that she did not make up this story. I believe that she related it accurately but if you were GONNA make up a story like this you would make up a much much better story. Among other things you would not put another witness in the room. Mark Judge So people like Senator Susan Collins and others who who said Oh I believe because I listened to her testimony that something terrible happened to Christine Blasi forward but he she's just mistaken about whether or not it was Brett Cavanaugh. I just concluded that that was comforting thing. They could tell themselves in order to seem like they were giving credence to her story without really taking in what I think. Thank is the overwhelming likelihood that she is accurate. How do you reflect on the impact of Christine? Blasi Ford's testimony in the larger sense of the metoo movement. I I think for a lot of people. It began to cement in the minds of Americans especially I would say American men that when a woman says she was assaulted when she she says she was harassed default to believing her. Don't default to saying or honey. No and who else was there and are you sure. And what will you drink it like it kind of blew the lid off that and made it not okay to just kind of thumb your nose at a woman who says no really this happened to me but also you talked to some people peripheral to Christine Blasi. Ford who also could not quite corroborate the details of restoring. So where does that leave us. It leaves us in a very unfortunate place I I think because while there was an FBI investigation it was not an FBI investigation that was aimed at getting at the truth. It was an FBI investigation. That was aimed. MM to getting fifty votes for Brad Kavanagh to be confirmed as justice Because the FBI investigation was controlled. By White House counsel Don mcgann and who was Brett Kavanagh's biggest advocate from the moment. Even before Justice Kennedy retired. He wanted to see Brett cavenaugh confirmed and he was going to. He did not want to see an FBI investigation and when FBI investigation was forced on him. By I senator flake of Arizona. Senator Collins and Senator Murkowski he was willing to do only to ask the FBI or struck the FBI to do only that which those Republican senators who were wavering on their vote insisted on and the biggest person that they failed failed to interview Did Not know anything about Christine. Blasi forward but he knew something about another incident at Yale that was corroborative or potentially attention corroborative of second woman who came out during the In the aftermath of Christine Blasi Ford's allegations a Yale classmate of Justice Kavanagh's named Debbie Ramirez. who were called imperfectly Justice cavenaugh exposing himself to her during a drunken dorm room party Freshman year at Yale. There was a man named Max Dyer who is the head of a bipartisan public interest group here ironically glee an interest group that's dedicated to promoting good government and he recalled seeing a second incident at Yale that same year in which then and Student Brett Cavanaugh Accompanied by two friends exposed himself to another woman. A woman who it's important to say does not remember what happened She has told people that she didn't remember what happened. Max Steiner desperately wanted to get his story to the FBI. Yeah I. They wouldn't interview him. He desperately tried to get his story. Two Republican senators. They wouldn't talk to him. And I think that that was a dereliction of duty. Because that would have been corroborative of Debbie Ramirez which would have been corroborative of Christine Blasi Ford and we didn't get to that truth whatever it might have been. Let's back up to justice Kennedy from from minute. Marian asked what the Justice Kennedy see in Cavanaugh that he thought would help the court and the country I think just as Kennedy saw in Justice Cavenaugh uh sort of younger version of himself Attractive young man who worked incredibly hard hard And Justice Kennedy's behalf. When he was his law clerk later? Clerks would tell me the justice Kennedy would muse to them. Oh here's where Brett Sat I would. He would be there when I came in in the morning and when I left at night I would say oh Brett go home. And he Everybody likes having people that they mentor. Succeed in life and here was just as Kevin Judge Cavanaugh. Then who had become a very well respected judge on the DC circuit often called the second most important court in the country and so he saw him. I think even though he understood him to be more conservative certainly than Justice Kennedy as a worthy successor and certainly among the potential successors that president trump could have chosen before all this Information came out from Christine. Blasi Ford I have to say my reaction when then Judge Cavanaugh was nominated and I had known own him since he worked for Ken. Starr in the independent counsel's office. I had known him when he worked for President Bush. He was a completely obvious. Run of the mill likely Supreme Court nominee for any Republican president. So that was what I think. Justice Kennedy saw him as well. I WanNa talk more about what this means for the court going forward and what this means just for our view of jurisprudence in the law going forward when we continue with Washington Post columnist Ruth. Marcus Chris is in Cape Canaveral Florida. Chris emailed as far as Brad Kavanagh. It seems that for a long time. It's okay to be a sexual Predator if you are a conservative but people like garrison Keeler and Al Franken forced out of positions for what might be much less serious indiscretions garrison keillor's politics. But I know it. Lindsey Graham said at the Senate Judiciary Committee that might corroborate Chris's point or at least contextualized it. We'll play that clip for you and we'll get some answers to Chris and more of you when we come back. fickling support for NPR and the following message come from Bayer from advances in health to innovations in agriculture. Her bare is advancing science for a better life. Because someone with heart issues should still be able to have their heart jumped with joy because a farmer using less water water should still be able to grow their crops because someone getting older should still be able to act young at bear. This is why we science. Hey Hey there it's Joshua thanks for listening to the one podcast. Please take a moment to subscribe and leave us a rating that helps other people find the show. And don't forget you can catch the news round up at the end of every week. The Chat Bot on Sheila's phone is supposed to ask her questions but when she starts asking it questions it sends her poetry secret. Dwelling place mysteries held in the dirt. Time other planned. What happens when you treat artificial intelligence with love on the new episode visibility? Yeah back now to our conversation with Ruth Marcus columnist for the Washington Post. Her new book is called Supreme Ambition Brett Cavanaugh and the conservative insertive takeover Chris in Cape Canaveral Florida emailed as far as cavanaugh. It seems that for a long time. It's okay to be a sexual Predator if you are a conservative conservative but people like Garrison Keeler and Al Franken are forced out of positions for what might be much less serious in discussions. The idea the About whether or not this was disqualifying for Brett. Cavanaugh was of course. The mainstream of the hearing. Senator Lindsey Graham Republican Senator Lindsey Lindsey. Graham loudly loudly expressed his disappointment. Democrats even leveling this argument during Kavanagh's hearing here's part of what Senator Graham said what you WanNa do is destroy. This guy's has live. Hold this seat open and hope you win in twenty twenty. You've said that not me when you see soda. Marin Keagan telemit Lindsey set all voted for them I would never do to them. What you've done to this guy? That was Republican. Senator Lindsey Graham. Speaking during the confirmation hearings to to be clear Senator Graham referred to the Democrats holding the seat open that is indeed what the Republicans did when they refused to even consider the nomination of Justice Merrick garland waiting eating for the two thousand sixteen election which Donald Trump one which allowed them to get two justices on the Supreme Court. Just to be clear but eh Senator Graham. He said he broke with his party to vote for Elena Kagan and Sonia Sotomayor definitely not conservative firebrands by any stretch but these days I don't know Oh a few see it this way but it seems like the process has become so completely blood sport partisan that those days might be over those days are almost certainly certainly over. And that's actually unfortunate if you look back. At for example at the bork nomination there were Six Republicans Republicans. Who voted against judge? Bork there were Actually I may have number wrong. There are a number of Republicans who voted against judge. Bork and there were a few Democrats who voted good for him. This kind of crossing party lines is almost impossible to understand. It's become increasingly limited as the judicial nominations. Wars wars have continued in actually just mirror the rest of our political wars and so with And I think that the decision to get rid of the filibuster judges has just exacerbated that certainly Mitch McConnell's moved to hold that seat open made. It made made Democrats so angry that they were not going to consider seriously voting for any Republican nominees and so the playing field when it came due to People like just as core such injustice. Cavanaugh was very very constrained. I want to go back and talk a little bit about the metoo movement and the evolution because I do want to quibble little bit With the emailer. I do think that Democrats have sometimes gotten ahead ahead of themselves and jumped the gun in terms of responding to allegations too quickly. You talk about how people should be given the benefit of the doubt when they come forward with these allegations. I agree with that but I also agree with the importance of going through due process. I thought it was unfortunate. That senator Al Franken Felt forced to resign before we could have an actual Senate ethics committee inquiry about what happened. But I also think that in this modern era and this is a good thing that conservative icons cons as well as liberal icons have fallen to these allegations and some people looked at the Christine Blasi Ford hearings and the outcome and really despaired about Out whether these allegations would be taken seriously. I have to say having lived through the Anita Hill Clarence Thomas hearings. Having seen the much worse treatment treatment of Anita Hill there the complete inability of some of the male senators on that then all male panel to understand the meaning and implications ends of sexual harassment. I think that we are limping. Howard's society and are continuing understanding of how to deal with these kinds? Let's have gender issues and gender politics let me zoom out a bit from the Brett Cavenaugh Story to talk about the Supreme Court and more broadly just neal gorsuch was on Fox and friends yesterday talking talking about whether he lets his political leanings affect his opinions. Here's part of what justice course have said. The fact of the matter is any good judge will look back and say I may not agree with this policy or I may not a- voted for that law but the People's representatives chose to make that long and my duty as the judge when I put on that robe is to put aside my personal preferences and to faithfully discharge my duty which is to uphold those laws to apply by the neutrally that was Supreme Court Justice Neal Gorsuch speaking yesterday on Fox and friends. I wonder how you see what he said. In terms of the philosophies that the justices apply lie today I think justice who are further to who are kind of in his political side might say it's not our job to execute the law as the People's representatives additives. Today see them. It's to apply the law as the Constitution was written as the founders. Saw It so I think there are two different strands of conservatism. That justices and other judges have to deal with one is the question of their partisan leanings and are they as has The chief justice said Famously in response to yet another President Trump tweet they are in Trump judges or Obama judges or Clinton Clinton judges or booths judges. They're just judges trying to do their jobs. So one question is partisanship and what role that plays in justices minds and the other question is conservative. Judicial Philosophy where liberal judicial philosophy in terms of methods of constitutional and statutory interpretation and what role that plays injustices minds and those are two different things but the reality is is that the I think justices do their best to try to put their partisan leanings and their personal preferences out of mind but we still come up with conservative results and liberal results. And and that is not a coincidence. And it's going to be really interesting to see this term among the many fascinating in monumental cases that the court has taken or three cases that involve president trump. And whether he's going to need to turn over his financial and tax records to congressional committees or to the Manhattan District Attorney. And how the that. I think justices in their heads try to do impartial justice. But it's funny how it all works out in a certain direction before we go. I wonder where this leaves you in terms of your thoughts in the Supreme Court in general I mean if I was Chest thumping campaigner for term limits in the Supreme Court. Brett cavenaugh would be exhibit a for this idea that we take these nominations so so seriously. If we don't get this person at this time right now it's going to ruin the future for our children and their children. It just feels a little bit like Jesus Christ Christ like he's is it really that big a deal. How do you reflect on all of this now in terms of the process itself It is really that big a deal. The process is seriously asleep. Flawed the stakes are so high. The court is so closely divided And it is not a complete solution but something that could seriously ameliorate the the high stakes of these. Nominations is to make them more regularized. So one president president isn't winning the lottery. President trump likes to say. I think I'm going to get five I certainly hope he will not but He's gotten to some presidents residents get zero President Obama got to throughout the course of his two terms if we had eighteen year. Term Limits. You for justices. ESTES is that would lower the temperature a little bit and lowering. The temperature would be very good thing worth noting by the way the Washington Post did ask the Democratic candidates whether they would support term term limits for Supreme Court Justices Andrew Yang said. Yes a number of candidates they'd be they'd be open to it. Michael Bennett Cory Booker Pete. Buddha Judge Leon Castro Tom Style and Elizabeth Those with Warren Amy Klobuchar and Marianne Williamson said no and the remainder of the candidates were kind of unclear or gave no response ruth. Marcus is the author of Supreme Commission Brett Cavenaugh and the conservative takeover. She is a columnist for the Washington. Post Ruth sometimes. History can kind of fog our memory of things in the emotion SORTA takes takes over. So thank you for helping us clear away the clouds and just get back to the facts of what's happened. Thanks very much so much for having me. The segment was produced by avery. Kleinman with help from nine around and edited could by Miranda full more to learn more about our team. Go to the one A.. DOT ORC. This program comes to you from W. Amu part of American University in Washington Shington distributed by end pr until we meet again. I'm Joshua Johnson. Thanks for listening. This is one A. Yeah Aw.