WKPWP - Thursday Flagship - Keller & Powell talk Seth's Twitter controversy, AEW Fyter Fest & ROH Best in the World, more (6-27-19)

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Why certain people are saying the things that they're saying, and maybe there's some merit in them that you're not giving proper due attention to. So I have mixed feelings about it where we're at you and we'll talk about Sports Illustrated in a second. But as far as the approach set the suddenly taken on Twitter to be the vocal leader. What do you how do you grade? Or how do you evaluate his approach so far? I think he's playing a dangerous game right now because. He what he's done feels like to a point. It's WW. J. C D. What would John seen do but Johnson, wouldn't go this harsh and call out other wrestlers and things like that? I, I think he's trying to emulate, some of what John seen has done though is terms of trying to be that launched room leader for the company and where you'll it's a dangerous game is he's alienating fans and he could very well end up. Getting Johnson, a reactions which against the company would take a weird way. I, I just don't see the point. I know what you're saying about the trash talking, and that I think he's gonna turn people off. I think what he's doing right now defending the company the way he is. If things improve. Okay. Yeah. People, maybe he defended the company, great if things stay the same, then he's just the voice of, of not changing. And, you know, when everyone wants change becomes the voice of, of status quo. He's defending bad product. And I think. That's where the danger comes from is that there's people who, like him, don't see him as part of the problem. And it they're going to if he becomes this guy that everything's okay? We what are you will? What am I missing that? You're seeing, and it's like well, look at the attendance. Look at the ratings, etc. That's, that's the thing to not acknowledge. And again, I know he's in a tough position because what's he gonna do go? Yeah. You know, Vince, this and the writing team that and this colleague of mine this and, like, yeah, that was a bad show and got I plug my nose going to Saudi Arabia, but the money spent like what's he gonna do like he as the leader if you're going to, and this is the problem with Twitter. It's just it's insane. When you look at people because they will yell at you about something. Somebody else said and, and not actually read what you said. And I think Seth is frustrated with that, that's part of the problem of playing in the Twitter sandbox, too much is, there's Troll's. There's people who just aren't that bright or perceptive, in terms of what you're saying. Saying or they just, you know, I guess that's trolling. They're just looking looking to get a reaction by being sort of bombastic in arguments. And if you get pulled into that world you can sink to their level. So there's that aspect of it. The other thing was Seth is he's aiming down. He's, he's in the top company. He's the universal champion, and we'll set aside the fact that it's low blows and chair shots at got him there from a story line cave standpoint, but he is the universal champion lead baby face, and he's taken digs at will ask brace height and Bank account. Like if you feel you've got a great product that you're proud of you can say that, without sounding like a. I don't know some immature teenager, who's gone to ad hominem attacks against somebody who can defend himself on Twitter, but you're attacking for things that weren't part of your original discussion. Our product is the best. We'll ask Asprey. I'll, I'll take put my matches against anyone's. Well, you're short. I have more money like seriously. That's what went out ospreys actually taller than. Rawlins Kapiti alyssum. It's we competed. But it listen as being the same height. Yes. That's and that's the thing like, how does Seth Rollins feel about Daniel Bryan hoping early on in the it was a summer of Daniel Bryan with his shield, the shield matches against Kane. But any Brian helped make a lot of wrestlers in that company and he's out there making heavy machinery this week? You know, when I say, make I mean that's overstating it. But you know what I mean like bringing them to the next level showing them at their best and Danube ran short, and then we'll ask spray by four same with Finn Ballard. There's a number of guys that Seth is worked with. So again, that's I do not have a problem with Seth coming up firing. I don't have a problem with insane. I think he should acknowledge. Hey, there's things we do that. I disagree with. But the in ring product when we're when we're at our best, nobody can match our schedule. They're doing long televised matches in front of millions of people that I'm proud of it. I'm damn proud of it. And I think it's good underline and highlight the strengths of WWE is long as it doesn't seem like you're disregarding or delusional or blind to the obvious shortcomings of some of the issues that fans are pointing out. No one says, Seth you're not a hard worker Seth your matches aren't good Nobel prize people saying that he should ignore them. They're idiots. But that's not the that's not the criticism of the WWE product. So for Seth to ignore the valid criticism and then have the straw man argument of. But my matches are good. When no-one said they're not. I don't I don't think that's leadership. No. No. It's not. I heard from people who've worked with shit that are honestly wondering if he was put up to this, it bitch WWE looking at it can't be Roman reigns. People crap all over that. If it comes for him. Hey Seth maybe you could deliver the message. I, I don't know. I mean this may be one hundred percent sincere. I coming from him could be an attempt to become the long-term leader curry favor with Vince who knows or just get one hundred percent sincere. But I, I don't think he's gone about it the right way, especially on Twitter, the whole wheel Osprey thing, it's, it's subjective. You know, I, I wrote a piece on this just breaking down some of his comments in Sports Illustrated, and, you know, one of the things that I pointed out when it comes to Seth. I mean it's just it's all subjective. Who cares who? If somebody thinks another wrestler is better than you, what is the difference? I mean just you or the WWE universal champion. And if I if I felt like because at first I was like, well, maybe their friends and they're just having some fun with this. You know, whatever I don't get the sense that, like they're both in on this show together. It may get to that point. But it does seem like no. This is throwing a tantrum. Yeah. It it's, it's bizarre in it's not all bad, but it's like you said it, it, can, I think it can backfire WWE heads up until smacked on this week. I thought had a good stretch of shows going since since super showed on was a debacle. And I thought they had made some improvements in, even if they're solutions to problems are overly complicated and make things worse. It seems like they are actually trying to address some of the some of the issues that people had with the culture of their presentation, what went into the formatting in the way that they did things in it. I mean, it's McDonalds a step backwards in that. But then pay per view, and I thought last who's TV was better in this week's raw was better. And they're the heavy machinery, just being out there having a really good match with Brian and Roman like that kind of thing. And then Seth putting in great work. One that stuff can speak for myself, too. If you think you need to speak about it highlight what you're doing, but don't you don't need to pun intended, stomp on someone else's head who's doing great work. Also somewhere else. And so, yeah, it seems like he's there was some goodwill being built up. And then there was this premature touchdown celebration of see this proves. We we're better in every way, and I feel like he's. Bonding to a handful of people on Twitter who deserve what he's saying, but should be ignored. And in the process, there's other people going, why coming at me, so hard and why you going well Asprey, so disrespectfully. I don't I just think in the end it's there's a way to approach being bold and having bravado on Twitter and do it better than Seth is representing their absolutely. And another thing I pointed out that he seems to be hell bent on their he's not getting respect. I it's he's deflecting from the obvious problem, which is the creative. That's what people have been going after. And when I know there's been television shows over the years, that normally, I'm a complete is. But there are some shows that just get so bad, you have to stop watching. It's not because I think the actors are phoning it in it's you know it's just and the writings, lost me, I and I move on. Yeah. And I don't see actors out there, but I'm acting really hard. You don't get it. And that's what he's doing. Really? Good analogy. Let's say you just bought a house. Bad news is you're one step closer to becoming your parents. You'll proudly mow the lawn and skip anybody noticed you mow the lawn till people to stay off the lawn. Compare it to your neighbor's lawn and complain about having to mow the lawn again. Good news is, it's easy to bundle home and auto through progressive, and save on your car insurance, which of course, we'll go right into the lawn. Progressive casualty insurance company affiliates and other insurers discount not available in all stages situations. Let's say you just bought a house. Bad news is you're one step closer to becoming your parents. You'll proudly mold along and skip anybody noticed you mow the lawn? Tell people to stay off the lawn compare it to your neighbor's lawn and complain about having to mow the lawn again. Good news is, it's easy to bundle home and auto through progressive, and save on your car insurance, which of course, we'll go right into the lawn. Progressive casualty insurance company affiliates and other insurers discount on stages situations. The ratings are undeniably bad, and so people who used to watch aren't watching, and it's not, because Seth isn't working hard enough or a hard schedule lake. That's he's, he's yelling at people for not liking in watching the product. Well, people get to do what they want with their time. And if the product isn't worth their time in obviously, for hundreds of thousands of people compared to just a few months ago, it's not don't yell at him about it, and say, well, I'm better than we'll out spray. I mean, if you want to be a leader behind, in, by the way, Seth speaks up behind the seats. I mean his reputation is he to perhaps to a fault. But he says, what's on his mind. There's not a real filter with him. And, and so that's you take care of business behind the scenes. And then if you're going to go public, and you're going to be the leader of the company. Just I dunno represent better. The eighteen to thirty four male demographic is a big issue right now. The young male audience with Seth as the champion the universal champion is going away two years ago. They did a rather sweep did a two point zero two rating overall this week at one point six six. So that's about a fifteen percent drop the eight hundred we were they I don't know if you haven't handy, where were they two years ago that was a two years ago raiding. It was so two years ago, two point oh two and so they're down point three six. So you know a look eighteen percent. I guess, roughly the male eighteen to thirty four demo, two years ago, one point zero two this week point five three almost fifty percent down. So the people there turning off our men who are under thirty five that, you know, all demographics are, are down. I mean, the eighteen to forty nine demos down. But. A little bit last. So the older fans are sticking around they're creatures of habit more. If they're shedding viewers from the main show that, by the way, people all that they once on YouTube, as account, of course, it counts because the vast majority of w. The by far the biggest revenue generator for WWE right now, among all categories is television, so they don't get to have the money that they have if everybody's watching highlights on YouTube. So the study of while the ratings being down doesn't count because people still watch clips on YouTube or, or wherever it's like, no that really matters a lot because if, if the NFL is making their money from TV deals and ticket sales and suddenly nobody's watching on TV and nobody's buying tickets. But people go well, at least they're watching highlights on, on NFL social media will, if there's no money being made from those highlights and social media, or it's a tiny fraction that's bad for the league. So this is bad for the league and a year ago. It was one point nine rating and a point eight one eight eighteen to thirty four demo. So it's down dramatically from one year ago, also the point five three is the I don't know if in the tournament going at in the last few months, it's nothing is that low haven't been in the point fives. So and this. Those to be their time. There's no sports that they have a couple of months before what ball season starts up again. It you talk about the young male demographic, or I guess, just would eighteen to thirty five day team to thirty four male is the biggest drop, but even all adults eighteen forty nine they're down also but not nearly as much. I boy, I mean, it chef related, it's kind of a side note, but I don't think this set and Becky romance is going to play well to that demographic. I just I don't think that's what that demographic is looking for. They, they made like bolted them. I don't know that they wanna see them tied at the hip together, and it'll, it'll be interesting to see how they do that. I agree. I mean, I think so far, this is sort of pre tweet storm. And I don't know how they would relate to each other. And what fraction of the audience is gonna know what, what Seth is doing on Twitter, or Sports Illustrated, which we'll get into. But I think it can work and I think you could backfire and I think they have to be careful about it. I don't know. I, I don't know. I'm not I'm not like saying, oh, God this going to be terrible, but it is there are absolutely directions as could go. That could backfire not only on Seth, but also Becky. I don't I don't think Seth and Becky are seen, as like, well, they have to be seen as single in available like the rock and roll express. You know, you never want to talk about the be married because all all those screaming girls in the eighties. Like I wonder if you have Robert so. Well, that was a big thing in Hollywood for years in may. Probably didn't want the women. Now they were married, maybe so. Maybe just one of them. I'll just say that. So, yeah. I don't know anyway, let's continue. Let's at the table. This is the way Keller pro wrestling podcast. The Thursday flagship for June twenty-seventh two thousand nineteen. I'm Wade Keller, the editor and publisher of the pro wrestling torch, newsletter since the late nineteen eighty s and host of these Wade, Keller purchasing podcast and a bunch of people you torch audio shows throughout the week, and I'm joined by Jason Powell from pro wrestling dot net who's been covering the wrestling industry. The majority of the time fulltime for going on what twenty s is it twenty over twenty years now, as you twenty one years, I believe it is. I think it'll be twenty two next year. I may be off. I, I maybe under doing it, but I think twenty one years awesome. So, so we bring some some background and experience to do seeing the cycles, and the trends, and covering them in our respective jobs. Jason welcome back. Great to be here. So I want to throw just no. We're on the this is a blue feet on the way killer person Poche shows, we do. Post Ron Paul smackdown shows, and so those are available and I just the post MAC don't show was a lot of fun. Because Greg parks, join me from rusting night in American people newsletter columnist. And I just ranted about and we'll talk about it. I want to get your take on Jason, but the, the forced artificial shortening of falls in matches so they can restart and reset, and then give people second fall opportunities follow-up or -tunities. Whatever the hell that was all about. So I rented a lot about that we had a bunch of callers who were at contributing their thoughts and it was a really fun. So check that out of having it all you have to do is search. Wade Keller on the podcast app. You're using it will return a blue logo on a red logo. These shows the podcasts that are not live streamed, those are. That's what you're listening to now. Then that's the blue logo. 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That's bold man. That's really bold twice a bolt shattered in night. Heading into a holiday week. Yes. I'm just saying man later, I is a play on this. This could be the, the fire festive live podcast. Good, good luck. But let's just hope your audience hasn't had of here. That's true. I think we're they're going to have no. Oh, calls or more calls than we've ever had. And I don't know what I think you'll get a ton. Yeah. I think so too. But who knows it's a different day and it's not you know, people are creatures habits. So hopefully this set set alarm on your phone, everybody, whatever think about check on a report on people torch dot com. Saturday night, and Jason are you, are you covering it live Saturday night? Absolutely. Yes. She'll be covering later fetched on Saturday and rim. Boehner best in the world on Friday night. Cool. So where you calling it live coverage at pro wrestling dot net. Follow me on Twitter at pro wrestling net. Cool. And then also what about your podcast on? The podcast is the pro wrestling boom podcast, this week, it had to be delayed. It wasn't my lawn service, making noise, they made today show because they haven't, I heard them in the distance earlier. But we had concrete work being done right outside my garage last week. It was loud, as hell when they were the street yesterday. I hear Mike. Okay. Here goes about two minutes later. How shakes on both Mike? Okay. Here we go. That was it. That was it other than some beeping the machinery, they were using it was smooth is could be. I couldn't believe it, but I didn't know how loud it was gonna be. So I had to push it back to Friday. And my guess is going to be some guy named Bruce Mitchell. Maybe you've heard of him. Oh, cool. We'll have lots of things to discuss. So pro wrestling, boom podcast is available on apple podcast and everywhere you get your podcast. Just do a search for pro wrestling, boom. Five our T with caffeine from green tea leaves. 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Your appointment will be at a private and professional medical office with a doctor representing a physician network that has helped over fifty thousand men regain their performance in just one office. Visit if you thought your eighty symptoms were untreatable don't miss this opportunity to get a free dose of a highly effective rapid acting medication. This offer is limited to the next seventy five men who call you must act now to reserve your free dose of this breakthrough treatment that's eight hundred nine four seven thirty three hundred eight hundred nine four seven thirty three hundred eight hundred nine four seven three three zero zero. Let's, let's back in the conversation a little more. And Seth here. Sports illustrated. His response to dean Ambrose is interview with Jericho. I did the university of embryos, which was on this feed. Also, that was about twice the length of the Jericho interview didn't cover pretty much anything Jericho covered. We covered all new topics. Brock listener controversy, the, the return of the shield, and how that was totally different because of rock than it was originally supposed to be and the stone coal podcast. And what went wrong there, why that was so awkward and so much more soap that's on this feed? Catch it while you can scroll down and, and download it. In the uncensored version is available VIP members. It's just crazy. The markup of all the all the edits that I that I did in a stretch of time that was just bombarding with swearing anyway, it was great. I just be like look, don't listening to this one and your adventure. Don't. Yeah. Just advertisers might have something to say about that, too, of how people are surprised if once you Mark yourself is not explicit. If you, if you just have a string of F bombs that it can it can it can lead to, to some issues. All right. So Seth on Sports Illustrated doesn't interview drew McIntyre haven't listened to was on Sam Roberts last week. I keep giving that up and not not getting around to it. Did you listen to that yet? Which one was drew McIntyre on the Sam Roberts. I have not yet. No. Because he was sort of it was felt like a little bit of rebuttal, the dean Ambrose also, I'm impression I get is he's like, hey, you have some more flexibility on promos than maybe dean indicated John moxie indicated and, you know, a lot of guys who complain are the ones who aren't aren't working hard and doing the right thing. So. If that's the case, I am sorry to interrupt. But if that's the case can you have Scott hall, give him a call because I still remember your torch dock, we talked about you don't say thing, like you know, you're gonna stab somebody or do whatever you don't go over the top with it because you're not going to do that. And all I heard from drew McIntyre, leading into this paper view is how he's going to brutalize Roman reigns. As kids aren't going to recognize and just like, no, you're not stop in the thing with that, too, is make sure that the Vincent man, the writers and the wrestler, on the same page. So if you have a script, it's I'm going to brutalize, your families recognize you make sure you're not doing the job a two on one. Like, make sure that you're not that you're not on the losing end of a two on one match. Yeah. I know that you're facing Roman. You don't even have to ask. You're not going to be you should have been, but you're not going to be. Yeah. Exactly. So. So with Seth response to Moxley I didn't really see any specifics, get brought up. Like I, I wasn't super satisfied with what, what I've heard in read about Senator, your Sports Illustrated. So I'm curious Jason your take. Like what what did he make some points like? Oh, okay. Well, that that's, that's fair. And that, that, that actually is kind of another way of looking at it that maybe Moxley didn't portray or portrayed unfairly, no, the I mean, I don't know if he was hinting at I'm leaving the door open that he knows would DNA embryos. Jon Moxley was like behind the scenes. He kind of made it seem like it look in the mirror and ask yourself. Did you do everything that you could have done that sort of thing and show? I don't know if he's implying that, hey, you know, it is as much as he was also complimentary of them talking about how he committed himself to everything and all of that. But basically it was him taking a fence going. You worked really hard while you were here, but just because you left doesn't mean you have to bury the place on the way out. And but he also said, he's a big boy. And he can do that. And it's like, well, which is it? Yeah, I mean, I yeah, I didn't think he added anything there. I it just seemed like he was Pissy because John motley did interviews. Yeah. Like it's far as the creative aspect goes and you've got the detailed quotes up on. This was asked if he's satisfied with the level of input into his character, and he goes, absolutely, I'm satisfied with it because I make a point to be satisfied with it. Like if someone says, are you happy with your marriage? And they go well, I'm happy with it because I make a point to be happy with it like, well, no. I mean, either it's you're happy with it, or you're not you can't force yourself to be happy with something that's not healthier or productive or good or like that felt that seems like a weird answer. Now, what he's saying is I try to be positive and realistic. Well, that's fine. Then say then say that, but like. D like in one of the pushbacks with, with Moxley's interviews like he's complaining, but he was in the shield and he got like a big push. Imagine some of the people who are frustrated behind the scenes, who have really good upside. But for whatever quirky reason they're being ignored or not pushed but to me, it's like that says even more about that. I think that adds more validity to Moxley specific gripes about the creative process behind the scenes, which is I was getting a push. And I was making great money, but I felt like I could have been more valuable to the company. It wasn't a selfish argument. And so, you know, I just I didn't I'm not really sensing where Seth thinks Pacific -ly dean was wrong in the argument will Vincent man has been doing this twenty years longer than I've been alive. So he's got some ideas, any no since I don't have to learn from him. Okay. Well, that's good. You should feel that way. But there's a lot of NFL had coaches who've been around twenty years longer than some other head coaches who suck because they're stuck in their ways or there. Where they've kind of aged out of, of the work ethic that's needed or whatever I mean you can go on and on about that. So to me, it's like these generalities, don't do it for me. I wanna know specifically, what did what could what did dean complain about that. He had control of that he could have made better and I didn't I'm not sensing that that speaking addressed. So I, I don't know John would feel about this. Maybe he won't read it because he just doesn't care. We just so happy right now. Well, I mean one of the things he also should is the bottom line is that not everybody's equipped to handle the rigors of WWE in the schedule and how it affects you mentally, and emotionally. And then he did put it over again that he Imachi gave everything. He had to the company the entire time. He was here. So I don't. I mean, because their fringe any emphasizes their friends, and he'll love them all you'll always love him. I don't know if he was being kind of, like hinting at things, but not wanting to just, you know, drop the hammer on him or I don't know. I didn't really feel like he brought a lot to that. But I can. Stand. If there is a friendship there, where he might feel the need to bite his tongue on some things, then the aspect of set to, is he can't say the things that are true and worth boasting about that which the problem without taking a dig at something else. So he says, you know, talked about their top talent it'd town WB works over one hundred fifty matches year plus all the travel, all I'm glad you didn't say two hundred fifty. That's nice. You know, being a little more realistic here on top of all the media all the training to try to stay in the best shape. So we actually looked like wrestlers not, these Jubran in gym shorts who get in the ring and do high spots. Okay. And chef most ahead rural class gear when he first started. Yeah, I just like why I mean, I don't know. I mean, I don't think people are saying Yay. Jim Jubran gym shorts who only do high spots. Like that's nobody's define missions, nobody. But, you know, ignore those people that he's, he's responding to a straw man argument that that as if people are saying, Gebran, gym shorts who do high spots in. Their weekend warriors, every and travel and hit a few dates here and there, but don't have to look like wrestlers and don't have to do media and their travel schedule isn't nearly as rigorous. Nobody's saying, hey Seth you suck in their better. Like what? That's not that's not the primary argument. So I get it just feels like he's pushing back against something that isn't really a broadly held viewpoint. And in the process is taking digs at people aiming down that I don't think it's productive. The reason I said, that's exactly it is, I think had he just made some, some reference, you know, rallying the troops, but in a way that, hey was gonna be proud of the work that they did at the paper view sing their praises for that singer praises for the work ethic and within the company and just make some comment that were on our way up again or something like that. You don't have to say things have been where we've been way down. And because as always, we talk about this with impact and other companies that do this. It's like there you gotta remember that no matter what, there are people enjoying your product. Don't tell him it's bad and not that he did that. But it just felt like this. He could have gone about this differently and sent the right message and it wouldn't have got as much play. And maybe that's what he's looking for. But I don't think people would be criticizing Seth Rollins today. I and that's where I think he, he loss. A lot of people with this. I think he should be rallying people. Some people in the locker room and some people in the office, and there's going to be those Ron rod WWE fans that, you know, that's their hometown team. It's going to speak to them. But you're alienating so many people who want to, like you Jason before we continue. Tell people about. I know we talked about your free podcasts in your website, but you've got a membership tier what can people get with that membership tier? And how did they get more information or the sign up for you? Get the ad free version of pro wrestling, Don net. And obviously you enjoy audio content. You get a ton of it. Ross smackdown annex, t tool, five lot M. L W Audie reviews. The list goes on all the major television shows and pay per view covered in audio form. This weekend's eventual covered an audio form, I'll be handling those the and then next weekend is well with new Japan and impact wrestling. So all the major pay per view television shows, covered an audio form, and we also have my CUNY audio show on Mondays where I take. Questions from the members on various pro wrestling topics to start. And then there's the non wrestling nonsense at the end, we have a good time with that. And then the flagship show is the weekly audio show that I Jake Bornet ni- co host together that show. Almost always drops on Thursday afternoon. I we talk about all the news the week, I sometimes include some first run news items, and we'll be previewing the upcoming fighter fast, and I'll gosh, what is ring of honor best in the world show will get Jake's predictions on those matches and a lot more this week. But that is a weekly show again. It is the flagship if you are interested in a membership. Very simple. Visit p w membership dot net. That's p w membership dot net. Excellent Jason tired of thinking, something's free only to find there's a catch at Atlantic Union Bank are free. Checking is a really free. No minimum balance require no monthly fees. No, catches, even better. You'll receive a one hundred dollar cash bonus when you open an account before August. Thirty first at set up a qualified direc-. deposit. So if you're looking to Bank better and get one hundred dollar cash bonus open a free checking account today at Atlantic Union Bank dot com. That's Atlantic Union, Bank dot com. C offer. Details and flat Atlantic Union Bank dot com. Some restrictions apply. Member FDIC. Don't let this summer pass. You out power in the five hour energy, power up your summer sweepstakes, you could win one of five amazing experiences by any five hour. Energy product including cherry, extra strength snap a picture of your receipt, and send it in, because it's about time you had the dining your life, power up your summer with five hour, energy. No purchase necessary. Sweepstakes ends July fifteen twenty nineteen must be US resident age eighteen years or older to winter. For official rules, visit WWW dot five H E win dot com. Void where prohibited. Sponsored by letting essentials LLC. The problem people have with me right now is not Seth Rollins and his work ethic. And he's throwing that out there like how as if people are saying, yes, Seth, you're the problem and your work ethic is a problem or or to schedule isn't isn't grueling enough? That's not the problem. The problem is barren Corbin should be a third or fourth from the top heel, and he's headlining a pay per view, intimate event with a stipulation that makes absolutely no sense. If should be no governing body of a wrestling company, that would give the he'll challenger the opportunity to pick a referee no matter how bias they are. Although we could say, sort of happened in government with part of Justice, but that's a whole other issue. Maybe they're emulating that I don't know. But that shouldn't be something that, that, that just doesn't make sense for fans to take seriously his championship when he wanted with a low blow, and that sort of not talked about or a lame excuse for its fight fire with fire whatever. And then and then he's now pathetic figure it gets to heal who's basically allowed to bring a gun to a knife, fight it, just so that's the problem, not your work ethic, and he can't speak to that, obviously. And maybe he thinks it's a great story line stack the odds against me. Well, the odds are stacked against you, but it sort of makes a whole mockery of the championship if the organization that created this championship and hires all these wrestlers to see who the best wrestler, is which is the story, they're telling is giving this ridiculously unfair advantage to a heel, and we don't even have a face or voice of that. He'll figure anymore and I'm not calling for that, by the way, but I am calling for having a he'll who's credible enough that you don't have to give him that kind of. Advantage. That's where the criticism is coming from. And that's why people weren't buying expensive tickets to see stomping grounds because baron Corbin is fighting above his pay grade. He's fighting of his talent level and the perception of him and you're not going to draw very well when that's going on. It has nothing to do with people on Twitter thinking, Seth doesn't work hard enough. He can't bury the creative and maybe he likes it. And if he does he also has to look and go. Well, there's obviously people based on the ratings and attendance who don't I wish he would be blunt enough to be that guy. But she and punk was and it didn't always score important. I get it if he wants to be the company man, but pick your spots better. You know, there's I mean he's just deflecting. It's people are complaining about creative, and he is telling them we all work really hard and they do. No one. No one is disputing that we all know that. I shouldn't say all, but I mean look as he's on Twitter doing this, and he's, he's doing a Sports Illustrated podcast that I may. I don't know much about that. Podcast. Maybe plauged is it's kind of a general sports thing, isn't it? It's not just all wrestling. I'm actually not sure I don't look. Yeah, I believe because I they had a guess, on. I didn't even listen to the rest of it. So I'm not sure who the other guest was on. But I did didn't wasn't a name a recognized. So if it if it was all wrestling, I apologize, but it was like the Sports Illustrated, media podcast. So I don't think it is. And so I get like if you're think you're pointing to a certain audience. But at the same time, I don't think a casual audience of made up of non wrestling fans in some cases wanna listen. Listen to what he had to say about some of these things either. I just I don't I mean just pick your spots. Do a better job of, of being a good voice for the company. Not a polarizing voice for the company. Here's another, quote from the interview from your transcript on progressing dot net. So people to check it out if they don't have time to listen to the podcast, and then check out the podcast when you have time to hell with it. If people wanna talk, then let them talk, but it's time to fire back. I'm just sick of it. I hope that it's a rallying cry. And I hope that it is something. The rest of our talent feels that they can speak out about, and if they don't feel the same way, then they don't have. Then the let's see if they feel the same way that they don't have to take this high road all the time, or if they don't, if they just want to let me be their voice. I'm fine with that, too. He taking the high road. It's false binary choice either. You're taking the high road, and you're not really speaking, your voice, or your speaking voice. Well, there's nuances to speaking, your voice, and that's what we're breaking down here. He's, he's not taking the high road but he's also aiming down and responding to things that the majority of people aren't saying the problem. But if this does do you think Jason that this can be a rallying cry for the locker room? I think this sounds like Vince McMahon go blaming other people for problems in going. Well, we need morale to be up and guys to work harder and be inspired. And I, I just don't think like the revival weren't working hard when they were being buried. I don't think E C three isn't working hard and he's being buried meaning pick a bunch of people who feel being underutilized. I. I don't think the locker room needed to be motivated. I think their motivation has been beaten out of them through either being ignored or bad creative. And so this whole thing of if Seth was sent out to do this, or, or had an idea in Vince, loved it in sort of being amplified. I it's when it doesn't address the problem. It doesn't matter if you take the high road or the low road if either way, you're ignoring what people actually have an issue with. That's actually what is what is driving people away from the product, especially the eighteen to thirty four year old males. You're not helping matters. It may be a few guys in locker like yeah. We have a vocal leader and Seth, but they're just going to end up being more frustrated with creative than. Look, if there's a part of the odd the locker room that is right. Everything's great here, and they want to be positive about everything. He's going to speak to them as I wrote in my recap of this being the locker room leader. You just don't represent. Everyone is happy you represented everyone in that locker room. And yeah. I don't think he did a great job of that. And I think what you said about, Vince McMahon blaming everyone. I think that is the cause of damn near everything we're seeing right now in WWE a including this weird decision to not have mashes continuing to commercial breaks which I'm sure we'll talk about it. But like you can do that. But they're implement their implementation of it is so brutal. I think he's the wildcard rule all these different things like he's trying to find gimmicks. And he's fired writers he's fired producers and everything. We know I, I just think he's blaming everyone around him for his own shortcomings. Here's the we will get into that, by the way, I, here's here's for people who haven't been on Twitter of seen this, this is a quote, inner sponsor will ask where he goes, I'm sorry, little guy. We already have a better version, you here and he just won his first title, congrats king. Ricochet keep working hard, though, buddy, ricochet insulted. Yeah. Like there's I mean, we have our little guy, who I'm going to patronize, and he's better than we have a little guy who I'm gonna patronized by saying he's better than this. Other little guy who, who being patronizing to. Yeah. I'm just a high flying cruiserweight, and we're a dime, a dozen. Yup. Yup. Or we or we have a better version of something that I'm going up that I'm going to demean in my next sentence. I mean, yeah, and there's a lot of you know, Twitter response. Someone wrote Zach says I will stop whatever I'm doing and watches. Seth Rollins match because I love watching them. But to talk down to Osprey who just had the best match two thousand nineteen by far is disheartening someone else's he and Becky seem to think being ineffective baby face means being arrogant beyond the results, I've never seen people so proud of record low ratings. In poorly reviewed shows in there's pushback to I mean, there's people who are responding. I haven't seen any responses that are actually particularly on point. You know there's a bunch of generalities about about. Item. They acts up so they can act like they're you know they want. Yeah. People like the I W C thinks this or the age marks that and it's like whatever. Got to me, it just seems like two guys busting balls on each other. In the Idaho UC seems to have lost their minds over it. So. There's pushback. But it there are absolutely people. Looking at this going wait. We have to choose between really liking you and also really enjoying Osprey because. Yeah, I don't know. It's I encourage that. I mean, hey, if his if he thinks Vosper is nothing but a spot guy. Yes sound, you know, maybe there was a time in it than any. And that's what he is. His memory is of him if he seen any of his work, you better go watch his new stuff. I mean this guy's been. He's really changed his style. He's incredible coming off of stomping grounds in by the way, good meal. That's okay. Proud of proud of everybody's work. That's fun in it is it is. But it was a bunch of three-star matches. It was not there wasn't a match. There was anything. I didn't think anything hit four stars. Maybe something just hit for stars. If you really like, you know, one or two of the matches that I had, you know, at three three quarter three nap, but it wasn't like this job dropping. Great shows could show. It was a thumper solid thumbs up start to finish. Pretty darn good. But let's not make coming off of super showdown at which was one of the worst shows of all time and then you follow it up with a solid thumbs up with a bunch of three star matches. I just don't think that's what you hang your hat on as. Yep. Mic drop. We're the best and anyone who says it's like people weren't complaining about the match quality on Sunday and people aren't generally complaining about match-quality other than super showdown. They're complaining about other things, so anyway. Well, one more enjoyed that you know, he one of his points was, basically to make it seem. Like nobody does what we do is often as we do and just counting how many matches basically that he's worked. And it turns out that ospreys were poor matches this year. Yep. I mean he was with the back injury. But still, I mean, we'll offering works a pretty full schedule while the Wade Keller progressing post shows and Wade Keller wrestling podcasts. And PW torch daily casts are all ad-supported free programs. You can make the ads and plugs, go away and went to be great to listen to the straight through without ads and plug. You can become a VIP member and unlock access to thirty plus years of archives podcast retro radio shows over fifteen hundred back issues of the pro wrestling torch newsletter. Dating back to the late nineteen eighties and get our new podcasts every single day at free and plug free. Not just the free ones. But the exclusive ones only for VIP members including about a dozen others per week that I am part of you can do that by becoming a VIP member full details at peak w torch, VIP info dot com. That's beautiful. You torch VIP info dot com. It averages eight twenty five a month if you choose the one year option, or you can go month to month for nine dollars ninety nine cents. Checkout full details at PW torch, VIP info dot com. Yep. Capital. One knows life doesn't alert you about your credit card. Bram street in Bryant in the khaki shorts your TNL energy Bill went up sixty percent this month seems like you'd wanna know stand clear, the closing doors. So the Capital One assistant to catch us things that might look wrong like increases to a recurring Bill, then sent to your phone, and helps you fix it. Know another way capital. One is watching out for your money when you're not Capital One. What's in your wallet? See Capital, One dot com for details. Limitations apply. The stylized lounge presents an evening with the progressive bucks. The moon. That's you'll go tickling the ivories. He just saved by bundling home and auto. Progressive gonna finally by ring for that gal of yours Hugo, send dolences. This. Nice. There's. In my. Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates. Discounts on available in all states or situations. Okay, let's, let's actually attor turn the page to fighter fest. What's this is the second official a e w event? It's not in Asia, but it's got the talent on it. And it's going to be seen by a lot of people. And this is our chance to follow up on in adjust course compared to double or nothing. We're. What are you hoping for, in terms of changes from double, or nothing? When you see the show because they're, they're the tone and tenor and culture of their product will start to reveal itself. More the more we see them because they're going to Justice, they go, what are you hoping to see different from double or nothing on the show? I will do things I want the commentary to improve namely, the, the work of Alex mortgage. It's his second outing, and hopefully, there's we see some signs of improvement there. And my question remains, if Alex just isn't the guy for the job. And hopefully is that if he isn't, let's Tony Kahn gonna do but his friend, that's kind of a test for him. Yeah. Is he gonna continue to keep his friend in the job because he's friend if everybody thinks he's terrible at his job. Or is he going to do something about it, and make a change there? I'm I I as much as I enjoyed that pay per view. Those first couple of hours are blur. It was all about the, the last three matches and yet at the time. I certainly found enjoyment. Did it but I remember writing after they get them right before the final three matches. I'm ready. I'm ready for singles match or something to that extent just a little too much high spot, and multi persons mashes and things like that. And I think I don't have the lineup infirmary I think there's less of that this time around. And that's cool. Yeah. I just I mean, I, I want less hokey nece that, like we saw on with the with the gimmick battle Royal or whatever, whatever it was called the Vegas steamed out a Royal, I there, just a little too much Cutie indie ripping stuff in there that there's an audience for that. I personally don't wanna see and only wrestling, they have every right to put it on there, if they feel like that's what they want to do. It's not for me. And I hope we don't see as much of that going forward. Yeah, I agree. I think there needs to be some editing. There needs to be some focus and this is a chance for them for people to watch and people who hear about it and read about it. What is their brand going to be? And do they? Have a cohesive vision for what they're going to be in not just a buffet of all kinds of stuff like I like to me, you're doomed, if what you say your philosophy is a little bit of everything a little bit of something for everybody. You know, that was TNA's wanna TNA's approach, what we're going to give everybody a little something, so we're going to have just a random hardcore brawl with a bunch of toys, and that we're gonna have this one of the problems with WWE right now and the twenty four seven or just all these different things are trying to be. Yes. And so with eight w I wanted to know what, what tone are you sending out to your audience, and you can have? Can you have a sidebar aspect of things that is on the lower card? That's quote entertaining. Yes. But it should be one exception, or, you know, a little slice of, of your company or a couple of characters that, that sort of fit in, but clearly are there to amuse outside of I'm here to prove on the best wrestler, and let's, let's, let's go to it. An and and, and have a great match. So I I'm curious about that. Does this lineup looked like it's an opportunity for them to show that Jason Jon Moxley officially against George Annella? Is that a good starting point for Oxley? Are you thinking this could be a good way to enter? It will be introducing a lot of people to the John Moxley character. It'll be weight introduced a lot of people to join us all about. I think I mean that just screams hardcore war on, I don't get to cute with it. I join generic talented. I don't think he's a major player in. Ali, late wrestling, or Jon Moxley is. And if there's a way to have him gain something in defeat without doing it at the expense of Moxley in any way. Then go for it. But yeah that. It's yeah. I, I think people may be surprised. Maybe that's kind of the game plan here too, is to kind of let people know this isn't dean, Ambrose this, maybe this is dean, Ambrose uncensored now on to some extent unhandcuffed, what whatever whatever you, you'll say about it where he's going to be able to do a little bit more hardcore wise and he was able to in WWE. So I mean I'm looking forward to it. I think it'll be an interesting match. Yeah. Yeah. And it's isn't an H show and they shouldn't be giving away a top match with moxy yet and Moxley should get a win. And it's a way to show that he's part of the company, but it also should be seen as, as a chapter on the Moxley story and the journey that he's on within AWS should people should walk away going. All right. I good idea of how John ops is similar, but also going to be different from, from dean Ambrose now that he's outside of the auspices of incident man, framingham and scripting him. Okay. Then Cody another big star eight w taking a Darby Ellen what do you think about this matchup? They've done stuff online to build it up. What, what's the pros and cons of this match? I'm really looking forward to this match. It's a styles clash, you know, from what I've seen of Darby Allen. This strikes me as a major, styles clash, and I think it has the potential to be very fun could go awry, but I think they're both talented enough that it should work. And I think Hodie has enough equity built up that he can make Darby Allen look good. So it's not the Moccoli thing we're coding needs to go over strong and decisively. I mean, I think he will. But I think you know he can. He can hang on, and make their be Allen look, really good into feet. What's when you say styles flash show, elaborate on that from what I mean just the little bit. I've seen of derby Allen in various promotions. I'm I, I mean, maybe I've just been haven't seen enough. But there's a lot of hard core style stuff there. Yup. And that's you know, I mean, Cody isn't brawl and everything like that. But it just doesn't. It. It's not like I think it's a unique matchup. I it's not one. When you looked at the roster you thought, oh, they're going to go here. So he kind of unexpected and different and has a potential be really fun. Yes, made event Kenny omega and the young box against the Lucho brothers in Laredo kid. Your thoughts on this. Is this a do you consider that you made about? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. About drop off after that it is. But, you know, I mean, hey, their star power with Moxley their star power with Cody, and, and then I think there is a pretty significant rob off from there. We'll see what the four ways like, and I look forward to Daniels, and Chima for other reasons. But yeah, I think that this buckle up. And let's hope there's not an all in repeat where they've run long. And these guys don't get enough time because I mean, this is the mashed to tune in for it's, you know, people who wanted to say that only wrestling is just nothing but crazy high spot wrestling. Well, you may be proven right for a moment in this match, but it's going to be really frigging good high spot wrestling. I'm looking forward to this a lot, and they've got to decide who the version of the box we're going to are going to be an a w and also frame Kenya magazine star like Kenny can't be ov shocks. Look at this here. I am ironic smile. Like this has to be. I like a I think there's got him. I mean he he's gotta be Kenny, but there's gotta be a serious sports like presentation to this being a main event match with something at stake and go out there. And for people who are sampling the product look at him as all right, there, Seth, and there's canny like to top guys in their prime. And I see Kenny as sort of the Seth of eighty w for people who are more W W B center, but giving a try to aid w because they're pretty excited about what they've seen so far. Yeah. Absolutely. I think any needs to go over here on, you know, he, he did the honors the Lascaux and put over Chris Jericho. I mean you can really I mean the thing that matters most is what you do once you start on TNT with Kenny omega. That's why I wasn't down on the decision at all for him to lose that match. I didn't expect it, it was one of those cool, finishes where it when it played out. I'm like, you know, that makes a lot of sense. Good for them. I I wasn't expecting it. I thought, okay there it's Kenny omega. He's going to be Jericho, but he didn't. And but I, I do think I would have him bounced back here. It's a six man tag. I mean, but the real key is once you get to TNT what you do with Kenny omega in front of that entirely new audience, and they'll have someone some new fans certainly tuning in for this show with an airing free on Bleacher report live this weekend. But I think TNT is the big one. And that's when you really begin to build for of Kenny, omega major star, this should be there should be enough thought put into how. They're going to frame present. Kenny, omega big star that there shouldn't be a big learning curve between now and October and TNT this, this should be our glimpse into who Kenny is going to be portrayed on the TNT show. There shouldn't be a major a major shift away from whatever they do on Saturday. They need to have figure this out at doesn't mean it won't be refined or, or enhance to in terms of the production values or something like that. But people tuning in, and watching the show should who have a peripheral knowledge of Kenny omega because Awa needs those fans who have a peripheral knowledge of Kenya mega to be successful on TNT. The majority of people watch on TNT are have to be people who have not seen much, or any of Kenya mega, but are ready to settle in and try new wrestling series. That's that those fans are huge chunk of making Wednesday night, dynamite, a success if that is what they end up calling Jimmy Walker opened the show. I hope not. Yeah. And I can't say I'm crazy about the name. Looking forward to this series. That's for sure. I, I guess the obvious as far as the prediction would be omega pinzel Rateau kid because I don't know. I mean it Laredo kids appearing on impact television this week in a six man tag. As a matter of fact. So I, I yeah, I don't know if he's going to be regular in AWS really talented guy. I kind of hope they go in a different direction and have omega beat Pinto, or Venus. Even and just it because it almost is too simple. Okay. I'll magazine gonna pin Laredo cat. Yes. That yeah. It is. It is. I mean, there's times to do the predictable thing, especially on up be level show like this. But. But tearing free. That's this is an entirely new audience. Hopefully for them. Yes. Hey kids, I'm Harley are passionate, and I'm Emily fear, and we host the PW torch, stigma cast talking on her. Joining us in our team of correspondents every Wednesday as we discussed the week in bring up honor including Arledge TV honor club events. Breaking news and listener mail, plus exclusive interviews with pop are which stars like Jeff, Bob Kelly, Klein, Tracy Williams, and beer city, boozer just search PW torch in apple podcast, or your favorite podcast app to subscribe for listen on demand and see the entire PW torch, David schedule, at PW torch. David cast dot com. That's not. Okay. I think that was good. Wanna try the cowboy version now sure Howdy, y'all money, tired of thinking something's free. Only defined. There's a catch at Atlantic Union Bank are free. Checking is really free. No minimum balance required. No monthly fees. No, catches, even better. You'll receive a one hundred dollar cash bonus when you open an account before August. Thirty first and set up a qualified direct deposit. So if you're looking to Bank better and get one hundred dollar cash bonus open a free checking account today at Atlantic Union Bank dot com. That's Atlantic Union, Bank dot com. The offer details and flat Atlantic Union Bank dot com. Some restrictions apply. Member FDIC. There's a difference between doing yourself and do it for a living at the Home Depot. We get that. And we're hued. Help pros get the job done with the products and brands you trust technology to keep your job on track job site delivery, to save you time at both pricing on over four thousand items every day. To save you money when you've got a job we're on the job. The Home Depot. More saving. More doing. Page 'em jail. Joe boy, Jimmy havoc your thoughts on this. Jason what, what should people look for in who, who are serious top tier? Stop potential stars in this group, and who are second tier stars because this is like I said, largely ABI show is this just sort of spot fest, with with hangman page atop guy, and then sort of some next level down guys or is this a showcase for someone to establish themselves as being in that top tier? I think this is that needs to be the hangman paid show when all of a sudden done, he's the guy who's going to be facing Jericho for their championship at, at all out in September. I mean you can have a Finnish where somebody else pins. He just doesn't actor into the finish. I wouldn't I would put page over strongly. I think they obviously like jungle boy, I and but right now he's any, you know, he basically featured in their videos. On the shoulders of Lucia source. So I would say right now, kind of undercard lighthearted stuff, but I think there's real upside, their long-term, Jimmy havoc is primarily been more of a hardcore garbage style wrestler. He's good at it. He's, he's a good character. Is good talker. I just couldn't remains to be seen where guys like him. Enjoy genetic gonna fit in on this roster. An Jamf is a guy that I think I mean he's what twenty three I don't quote me on that. I know he's in his early twenties really talented talker, and I think he's a guy that they need to focus on is being a long-term star. I don't think he's ready to be in that upper mix just yet talking lies he is. But I think in time he's going to be a real player for this company. What did you think about what they did with them at Dublin nothing? I know he came out in the title ceremony things that what you're talking about just the, the, the Mike work, and the presentation, like it, it, I felt like a window that he showed off his strengths. But it went a little long and. It felt like it diminished him a little bit defined him down. A little bit from being on the path to being seen as a serious guy, as opposed to a little too much Santino or, or, you know, not quite a maybe a MS when he's not in the Mehtab at mix, I, maybe that's the right role from like that. I'm not even sure. But does that seem with roster depth that they have that you want to be kind of setting the tone that maybe he's not someone you should take particularly seriously? I wouldn't they may look at it as you you're gonna go talk, you can get under people's skin. It can get his heat back. You know, you know, he doesn't have to be that guy right now in time he grows into. I, I like when w was done with him. They have minute faction with the Alex hammer stone and Richard holiday, and he gets to do the bulk of the talking. They're just kind of your ritual brat boy, almost vaction that they have going at any. Any bitch really nicely with that kind of the face of it. And I like if they introduced the secondary championship, I could see him being in that next for sure. Yeah. The SEO best friends, private party. That's on the pre show winners. Earn a shot at this company that they would've Josh at all out for a first round. Bye in a world tag team championship tournament. So explain the step, and then tell me what you think about your asking me to want to challenging you to explain what that will mean. Okay show. They're going to have a tournament once. They start on TV to determine the first Awa came champions. I believe, and at all out is going to there's going to be a match where we don't know what match it is. But we ever wins this match is going to qualify for that match. And then that match will determine who gets the first round by now. That makes sense it. No. You got it. You did it. And it makes a little more sense, than Nikki cross telling management, if I b. Bailey give a title shot to my friend who just lost her that, that really needed a Stephanie McMahon. Shane who get upset. But it's gonna be raising hell basically that night I'm going to just don't, don't cross him almost needed that conversation to explain it like we ever, the he'll with already figure is they do like Alexa. Yeah, we can do this. But without that it was kind of a messy right disenfranchised with rod smackdown live every single week. Of course you are. You're not alone. Those shows are chasing away viewers in droves. Somebody even say the shows were as bad as they've ever been just why. This is a great time to get on the Solomons sounds off podcast why. Because I watched rod Smith then every week. So you don't have to. But I also get to watch a lot of great wrestling from an XT and various other promotions. AWS is a fun time with eighty w coming soon to TNT. It's never been a more fun time. Still to be a wrestling fan. Lots of great stuff out there to cover. I also take male big questions from my audience listeners. We talk about classic wrestling content, as well each and every Sunday, the podcast drops on itunes Stitcher. Spotify iheart radio at all major podcast platforms that Solomon, Stor sounds off each and every Sunday on the Sullivan stirred dot com. Of is we talk about, neither Rosarito and Yuka sake. Yeah. So the bulk of my exposure is to nine rose, which isn't much. Yeah. She was on the last show and I it's I am looking forward to win. They get down to singles matches with women on last time I was really looking forward to seeing what they would do with Nyla in that match was brick Baker. I can't remember who else was in there. Gosh. The, the Bailey lake character. I'm just struggling to thank for name, but they, they right. Yes. Thank you. But awesome Kong shows up and basically, replaces Nyla, as kind of the bad ass monster, just like that. I mean in Iowa was just overshadowed by awesome Kong. So I think this is kind of a chance for her on Reijo a believe goes way back with Kenny omega. And so, yeah, I mean, I can't say I know much about soccer sake. And I guess that's the thing with this match is I hope they do a good job of showcasing the personalities beforehand, and don't just put it in the hand of the broadcast team to, to explain as the mattress happening who these people are, and why you should care. That's that's the thing. I mean, there was two there were two there was too much of that on, on double, or nothing. And I think it's show with stronger if they subtract, some, some of the wrestlers, and this show is leader. You know, I mean in terms of them, there's not that I mean, there's a four way. And there's a there's a three way was Maja four-way men's match a six man tag and a three way tag team match. So it's not like it's all one on one or two put it feels manageable. You know, unlike. Double or nothing which felt like everybody's invited to the party and at the expense of, of viewers, who I think, in ending else team, whose heads were kind less spinning points. So, yeah, I, I want I want to see them. Give us a sense on this show book in this match. But also in what they do to establish the personalities in backstage segments, who let us know who the top tier women are expected to be the top title contenders, and who are just a, you know, along who are around trying to reach that stage. And I think you want you wanna viewer to watch fighter fest and have a pretty good sense of the tiers of your company. Here's top tier men and women. Here's topped your take teams. And then there's these others who are spiraled. You be more or they're lower card, and that should be made clear, not with a chart, but just by picking it up through the way that they're portrayed in presented mostly through making it clear, who the main eventers are by portraying them as big deals, and talking about them as big deals with some facts tobacco up. Yeah. And. On the undercard with the pre show match. I really looking forward to private party, a, you know, I've heard a lot about these guys, the boxing, genuinely excited about them and they could be players in the tag division. So it'll be cool to see how they position them. You know what everything from what's the entrance like tell you just how much their showcase do? They go over in this mashes. I would expect and I'm also hopeful that someday. That's friends, the act will be more than they hug in the middle of every match. That'd be nice. Yeah. And it certainly needs to be if you're going to be on a weekly TV show. Yeah, it wasn't in ring of honor. But then again, they never got a chance to speak in ring. A Boehner, it seemed like so who knows we considering about her having a weekly TV show? I mean they do tech new, but it's, it's, it's approached in a different different ways. So, yeah, that needs to change. That's part of their problem. I mean, they will put on good pay per view events. I don't doubt the best in the world will turn out to be a very good show. But who's watching it? There's, there's no buzz surrounding that company right now their you know their numbers are down as well. And they just treat that they've gotten lazy again, your television show, there's just a one week. You had a tag team match between two teams from new Japan and the main events lot. You know, they're, they're they can find room for she'll be shadow squad on the show in a match against three other baby faces, but they can't seem to do deliver really good strong, hyper their pay per view event. They chose to just spotlight. Jay lethal. And Kenny kings, best of three series, the last two weeks, and the main events slot ahead of Matair even and Jeff Cobb which is the main event of this show on, they're just, they're they have a real issue right now with that television show. I it's, it's a it's a great outlet. And I don't I think they're complacent. I don't think they're taking it seriously. Just bills. When I watched that show, I feel like I'm seeing a product that most weeks, not all, but most weeks, they're just trying to get through the week. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we'll talk about Bessemer coming up, but a back to fighter fest. You talk a little, you mentioned Christopher Danielson Shema really even passing how about that matches at where does that fit down on this lineup and where are those two on the depth chart. Where would you have them slot at, in terms of are, they guys who visit main events where where's the where's the role for them on TNT on a weekly show will remains to be seen with with Daniels? I think it's primarily going to be with us. She you on. You know, he's not getting any younger I it's amazing that he's still able to do what he does at his age into when people bring up things like should there, be a mandatory retirement age, when when the after Goldberg and undertaker I point to Christopher Daniels, and say, no case by case basis on the guy can still go Shema. I believe it memory serves. He is going to be facing Kenny omega in the main event of the. The fight for the or I don't know if it's a main event, but in the at the fight for the fall and show on a believe it's out event. So I think we're going to spotlight him pretty well, they all see him as a legend, they all have really good all the main players in this company, have really good things to say about him, whether that, you know, once they get to TNT, I mean if they if they spotlight him kind of remains to be seen, but I think you're going to see him. Get a pretty big build up here on in this match heading into that match with omega. Yup. And then they've got the other pre show match. Michael nakazawa. Alex Jebali your thoughts on that. Yeah. So LSU you Bailey is the promoter of the video game event that this is tied in with and they featured him in. I think it was one of the videos that Cody puts out on his YouTube page road to fill in the event in this case fighter fest. And he talked about how he did some training. And he I think he blew out his achilles. And he wasn't able to show off everything. He learned last year. So he's hoping to do it again. I, I. They make me eat my words on this. But this is one I would have had it's dark match. I, I mean, maybe I'm underestimating the appeal of Alex Bailey because I'm just not invested in that world. You know, in so that it's very possible. But for me, it's just like this is really what you wanna put on the show. But we'll see how it goes. I think one of the things that AWS has to balance is being irreverent, and culturally, plugged in and at times, not taking themselves too, seriously, and balancing, that because that's a lot of that is what being the lead is all about and balance that with not seeming like amateur hour like kids with a camcorder so to speak trying to dated reference here for kids with camcorder Doina public access TV show and you don't wanna come across that way, that you're just some kids, creating YouTube video for fun for your friends to see and that's a balance to strike. You don't want to be so stodgy that you don't have fun. But you also don't wanna look like you're just a place for celebrities to have a markup moment or or sponsor partners have a markup moment or or. Things where it's like super tongue-in-cheek, we're not taking ourselves seriously. And then, but now we're gonna shift sharply to something where he wants you to take us really seriously. I that's, that's my main. I won't say worry, but my main area of curiosity with AWS. How do they balance the roots of what they were with what they need to become? I think to be seen as major league in the four a massive group of fans, the, the, the better dominant Nash, international bread. Yeah. Get not Wilshire. And again without knowing what this guy's all about what he brings to the table, or they're going to be extra people tuning in, because of this. I don't even if they aren't doesn't mean they're going to be hooked on AWS alling under not wrestling fans. Maybe again, if there's great appeal for this guy that I'm just unaware of because I'm an old man Soviet. Yes, but they need to have a density to their brand, and, and make sure. That the early impression they give I mean, there's plenty of time to correct course to. But I would say, ideally, kind of had to speak it out. And, and in let fighter fest, be again, for the people to watch it and the people here about it people to watch highlights to people read about it the people like I want to hear what the buzzes, don't put stuff out there, that's going to that's going to either create a reinforce some negative thoughts about it. That could turn people off. Granted we're acting like this isn't a company that did really good bye, right, for double or nothing. That doesn't have, you know, like massive ticket sales and could've amazingly perhaps fill the stadium for for all out. So men may be I think that gets overplayed, I explained your jammed system for that. Well, I mean look, I'm not trying to downplay the numbers if they're all legit. That's awesome. But you're we're talking to think sixty thousand was the number that is kind of pulled down to my staffer pro wrestling dot net. Jake Burnett is an IT guy, and he knows a lot about these kind of things he'd thinks that. And they're still, you know, they eliminated the, the box in some cases, he doesn't think they, you know, you, you can't trace all of them in terms of botch being used to bible number of tickets and things like that. So that may have accounted for some of the numbers, then you're also looking at well, if you're going with four French, you're all trying to get in to get the best tickets at the same time. So there's some of that going on. And it just I, I don't know. And then let's face it, if this is in a stadium are all those people are going to have interest in, you know, buying. Okay. Couldn't get in, but I can sit in the nose bleed section who knows? So I'm not trying to downplay it. I think is really good interest in this company, and I'm excited about it. But I do find that to be overplayed. The early indications are they've got this really good core fan base, where, where are you with the feedback the anecdote all end and hard metrics and controversial metrics like you described what I mean. What's, what's your, it's sort of, like predicting who's going to win the Super Bowl before, you know about injuries or training, camp or even free agency or the draft is like we're really early in this. But what's, what's the viewership prediction for you right now or for the first show, what is your over under it is? I am prefacing it by saying it's super early, and who could possibly know but, like what number one surprise you? What's that range and put in perspective? Raw rows third hour. Two point one two million. I started two point three eight million smackdown. Covering a little below two million most weeks is one million the over under four you is eight hundred thousand is one billion it is because the thing. AWS first show is going to have going for it. And some of those, you know, hopefully they maintain this, but early on, it's an event it really is. It should be more certainly more so than Ron smackdown issued be DVR proof. People are going to want to experience this live. Right. And so, even if people are dire, WWE fans and their online complaining about Awa marks. They're going to watch this. I, I don't care what they say they're gonna wanna experience this. And so, I think there's a lot of people that we know we're watching WWE clips on YouTube and things that aren't watching the television show. The wrestling fans I do. I mean, I plus the big question I have, what's the marketing push for this, babe? I, I haven't been impressed by what they've done for this event. Maybe they feel like they don't need to or, because, hey, we're giving it away for free. We don't need to go all out for this. We're saving it for TNT at. So I wanna see what TNT does marketing lies. I want to see what e does marketing wise. That's going to be a big factor in whatever number they draw to. Okay. Yeah. I'm writer along with you. I was thinking one million was a little high a month ago. Now I'm kind of I would take the over on one million right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So therefore, my by definition, my, my over unders probably around one point two, but that's projecting that they're going to have some projecting. But with reason for to project that they're gonna have some really good support from Turner. And it's also projecting that, while w w when they when they debuted nitro they had a built in audience on W w Saturday night and still the syndication network to some degree. They have some, you know, they built in network with hundreds of thousands of people subscribing to being the elite and all that. But it's not it's not like eight hundred thousand people watching every week. This is not. You know, like where you go. Whoa. Sixty percent of people who watch being the elite watched NTSB success. No, they need like four times the number. But I think social media does have play here. There are. There's a lot of people on Twitter. There's a lot of people who aren't on Twitter, by the way, there's a lot of people on Twitter who know about eight w who are fans but like you said, they're going to try this out, because it's an event that I chose important nitro was a really good for show, and that's why they did really well the next week and the week after Awa needs to make a good first impression, you know, it is a TV series that has a pilot episode that needs to hook people and they, they need to take it seriously. And, and I'm and I'm sure they are. So I say, one point one, one point to sort of my over right now, based on the idea that, that Warner media is going to really hype the heck out of it. And we're also assuming the WWE I go, hey, I ever live takeover for free on will in the same night or something. Like that. I don't think they will. But I mean I don't rule out. Anything do it. Go for it. I mean, let's, let's have a let's have a fire. They can't do it every week. And if they do it every week awesome. I mean, like I think AWS say, bring it on. I mean, they've got the funds and there's only so much talent w w we can afford to sign and all that. So bring it up. I mean. Conversation with the Brian Fritsch between the ropes dot com on the boom podcast about it's not going to happen, most lightly ninety nine percent. Sure. It's not. But what if they ran Mondays in October opposite? Raw win. WWE has focused heavily on smackdown. Because it'll be launching on FOX at that time. I'm not saying I would do it. But had you asked me, this six months ago? It'd been like you're crazy. Don't do it now. I'm looking at it. The stats state of what raw has become an. Yeah. This week show was better. But just we're WWE's AC and knowing again, that they're going to be putting all their eggs in the in the smackdown basket that right out of the gate with that vox launch. They're vulnerable man. Yeah. Yes. I love it. I love it. I again. On the night football. But that. Watch it. But that's just me. I'm for fireworks. I'm for a, you know, it's like it's that's why I'm glad that this coming out and representing his company and saying, we're not gonna let everybody just beat us up. We're proud of what we do. I just wish highlighted the things that he should be proud of didn't act like he was oblivious to what people really complaining about indent aim down. So we covered that for awhile earlier. But I'm all for let's, let's go at it. No. It'd be very hypocritical events to go ahead with eighty w if you did that with an NFS one or whatever, or on the network because Vince was one who wind to me about why Stitcher. It's going Monday nights. It's predatory practices. Of course, the counter argument to that is survivor series was created solely to be a star Cade killer, as a thanksgiving, pay per view with a bunch of throwaway, tag matches that he didn't think would hurt attendance at live events because it's just a bunch of elimination takes but it was it was it wasn't meant to be a super attractive show or a great format. It was meant to leverage cable companies into not caring stark aid, and grouping it with resume. So it's like there's such a hypocrisy with Vince. I wouldn't for a second thing. He would do it or that triple, h wouldn't talk him into it. Well, let me add to that. I mean, hey, an extreme tonight is Wednesday at seven central eighty turn if that's when they end up in a day, if that's where the TNT show is going to start with all elite wrestling. I mean for all we know like NFC's gonna end up on that best one airing opposite on Wednesday nights. And if you're WWE go. Hey, that was her night in and they'd be shooting straight, if I don't think we're going to give away a takeover VIN live on FM, sworn or anything like that. But I don't rule out that there could be competition on Wednesdays. They gotta be careful what they start giving away of annex, t outside of the network because I think that I think annexed tease content. The weekly show on the takeover specials is a bigger part of why people retain their subscriptions consistently around. Then I think a lot of people internally, WWE or other than triple h and a few people at NFC are willing to admit to. Here's. Counter to that, though. You. Okay. So I wouldn't giving away takeover events. But if you do have the weekly television series on s one, you're exposing it to more people, and you're hoping that they're going to be invested in that product. And go man. I want to order the network for that takeover special. And so I just don't think you're gonna lose people who enjoy takeover. They may find less value in WWE network. If they're really plug into next he only but I don't think the number so great that you can't make up for it by putting that weekly show out there and driving people to see your takeover specials, especially with the word of mouth about how great those shows are. So I, I really I don't think it's an issue. I think that there's enough content on WWE network aside from annexed, t that. You're fine. You're the they should be happy to get another programming fever. Annexed t I don't expect it to be Rauch MAC down. Like, but if I'm a network if I'm at best one, I'm looking at this. Going. And unfortunately I think they have that many people who are really plugged into wrestling going. We paid how much for smackdown, but we can get an X T at a reasonable rate. Let's, let's lock this in for five years. Know and I'm with you, I think if you have hundreds of thousands of people watching next you because it's convenient on their cable system, and they're not streaming people or they don't wanna pay for wrestling, and then they get hooked in the order the network, which they didn't think they were going to do because they love annexed because it's a great product and they end up wanting to watch the takeover specials. Yeah, it can be a net gain. My, my worry is that they could even move takeover specials to f s one, which is looking for programming. And if they start giving away that stuff through means other than WB network on a big scale. It's the combination of both of those where all of a sudden, they're like, why don't need to get the network to keep up on everything annexed t is doing and watch it live in a convenient way. That's where I think there has to be some, you know, some some, but they could expand the quantity of annex t live events, and do more of them, and I think they could survive doing that, but you do the start running the risk of over. Exposure, annex, t consistently leads people wanting more and there's very little out there that does WB does not ever leave people wanting. More, you know, like I mean. Two percent of the people want it non stop in their life. But you know what I mean? There's diminishing return. So that's, that's my concern. No jolie. I wouldn't recommend doing that. We sides Wade if they if they did that every takeover match would be best with three falls with second and third bowl opportunities. Yes. All right. I spent a lot of time on that back. But I want let's, let's do a sidebar on this. The restart in reset reset and restart line was curious. You know, when they first did it like wait, you stopped the match y and that now we can tell in retrospect, it's because they're finding excuses for not having action gone during the commercial break. I was against that against action like wrestling match cutting away from us in matches it feels like you're diminishing, the value of the main reason. Everybody's gathered it's to wrestle and find out who the best is, and they don't cut away from hockey in the while the puck is in play new soccer is it's tough to commercialize because goal can be scored at any time, but you can't afford to cut away from it to go to commercial, but there aren't stoppages an action. It makes it a great live viewing experience and a good TV experience, which you have to find other ways to, to make money than the traditional baseball in between innings or football in between in between drives. So it seems like Vince is suddenly come around to this after like decades of. Not thinking that was the least bit important. So that ended up itself is weird. But then you have this forced overreaction of, well, we can't possibly just because like I said, on the smackdown post show with Greg parks. Well, here's the solution. Because somebody called up says, how about they do this, and that they do that. And like no, this is what they do. There's a doorway and you want to get to the other room you walk through the doorway. This is not complicated. You don't have to bury a whole you don't have to invent a hovercraft. You don't punch a hole through the wall next to the door you walk through the doorway. That's a solution to get from one room to the other winner doorways there. So my analogy for that is you don't want to interrupt matches then have a ring a to go to commercial comeback. Do the ring entrances bring announcements have people wrestle for eight to twelve minutes. And then you go to a commercial break after that it's simple. You don't need to falls. You don't the thing is that they need to trim the stuff before. And after that, they because they think they can't just have a whole segment. Be a whole match in nothing else. But you can you like really can do that. Have promos beforehand has sound bites and get people excited about the show him backstage heading to the stage, but do ring entrance, and a match and a finish and then go to commercial and then follow up on it after that commercial. It's super simple. But they're so hung up on this arbitrary kind of stupid rule that, well, you can't just have one thing in between commercial breaks, you need have all kinds of stuff going on. No. You don't. No, no. I'm totally with you on this. It doesn't it is Vince McMahon's approach to this is just so flawed. I mean, we saw the WWE champion, take a super kick and be pinned in thirty seconds in the second of the match ridiculous. It's it is. So I think for me, it's like what you're saying if they're hell bent on doing this. That's the way you do it. Why can't you have a happy medium? Seriously? I mean the audience has been conditioned. Yeah. People grumble about it, and I love the way access TV is able to do that. Realistically, I don't think USA network and all their international partners gonna let them have twenty five minute matches with no commercial breaks. But the audience has been conditioned that it can happen. You know. And you can kind of apologize, your viewers almost when you're going to break, give us a happy, medium where sometimes there's gonna be a long match. It doesn't have to be all you wanna have brief matches throughout the show like you're saying eight minutes or whatever cool, but. Don't leave me watching a match and I'm excited about AJ styles and ricochet don't give me excited about it. And then deliver some quirky restart. The takes the crowd completely out of it just go to a damn commercial brick. It's okay, give us a happy medium on this. It is. It's, it's a such as it's like walking through doorway to get from room to the other. This is not a hard challenge to, to a this is the solution is so simple this they, they they're bending over backwards. And oh, we need bunch of two or three falls matches suddenly and we're gonna do these quick, and it drives me nuts. Like you're like I said, on the post-facto. It's like suddenly you start watching a baseball game and start watching baseball regularly, in games are ending like forty seven to one, you know, like what, what happened. This is not how baseball works or if suddenly you're watching the NFL in every game is like three to, to like, wait. Didn't there used to be like suddenly, they're just changing the way wrestling works where top stars are losing quickly in only investor three. Foam matches and there's nothing that should lead to a first fall of a two of three falls match. There's nothing inherited that, that should lead to a consistent ninety percent drop in how long the first of all as compared to a straight up regular match that on occasion. Yes, someone's going to submit quicker. Tap out quicker and live to fight another day in the second and third, third fall, but no one's going to lay their shoulders down on purpose and get pinned earlier to preserve their strength. That doesn't make any sense, so they haven't built in a storyline reason for it. It's just it just blows up the whole expectation of how, how competitive match should be with people. So I see this as unsustainable. I don't think you can continue on the other thing. That's unsustainable is Tom Phillips, saying, it's a second fall opportunity. What in the hell is a second fall opportunity? Why are they injecting the word opportunity? It was already ridiculous. How often they used it. But then like who who hears that? And goes. Yeah, that's a good thing to add in. Here's why I can't. Imagine the argument for it. It's so bizarre sounding. It's been speak, you know, it is I mean this has to be coming from him. I can't imagine Tom Phillips, which is coming up with this on his own. I it's just weird, Vince McMahon speak and opera -tunities been a big one for him. We don't have title shots anymore. We have championship opportunity so that just screams, Vince McMahon. Well, Hello, torch faithful. This is Kelly wells, host of WT talks and x t every Thursday, you can hear me and my rotating group of annexed loyalists banter about the highs and lows of the booking the progress and young talent. And the big takeover matches Harley pageant provides annex t all time statistics. Tom stop shears thoughts from the live tapings and Justin James tells us, which talents will be wasted most on the main roster. Search PW tortune, apple podcasts, or your podcast app to subscribe, or listen on demand and see the entire Pete of you torch. Daily cast schedule at PW torch. Daily cast dot com. Jeers. We talk about says, in all the pushback, you know, hey, we have our schedule, and we have these good batches, and all that, what's doesn't understand, is. It's this kind of WWE's speak that people have more of a problem with. It's the idea that everything it plays into what you're saying. You know that we're told what to say and how to say it and people speak a naturally, and that's way more of an issue. And Seth can't dress it. But this kind of thing, it was just a ridiculous degree this week. You watch, I it's it's been Vince McMahon for, here's now going back to sports, entertainment, and all of that. I, I just don't know that he's ever going to change. I wish he would. I think it's silly. I'm sure I just wonder how much I I've been told he has like the world's greatest poker face. But in closer close quarters. I just wonder how much Paul just rolls his eyes. I, I wonder if you actually pulled out that long hair, and we just we ought to shape it. Vince is now not cutting away mid match for commercial break. So I am holding out hope that we could also see in end to WWE speak, but I'm sure he'd find a way to screw that up to. I don't even know what it would be. Yeah. All right. So as we've been recording the show, we have a breaking news that the tenth anniversary show is evolving. How would you how would you their affiliate of WWE? Are they like a feeder system to annex t like how do you how do you categorize what if all is now? They I I'm sure there is some element of feeder system, the way it was explained to me was that basically WWE wanted there to be a group that was out there for tallying on. They can only take on so many people, and they wanted there to be an alternative to ring of honor and other companies that they had an affiliation with. And so they've struck up through deal with evolve. And so we have seen some talent have short stays in evolve. I think Shane Strickland was one of them before moving onto annex t just to give one example. And then annexed he will is now send they're gonna has been for a while their talent to evolve shows like the street prophets were one where there's only so much ring time that talent can get an x t when it comes to how shows and things. So let's send some of our talent to evolve for more seasoning. It helps evolve and helps us. And that's kind of been the relationship and at first they weren't allowed to like, if they sent a name from annexed t to evolve. Show. I even if they wrestled on the show, they couldn't air it on their live paid review stream on. I think it's WWF network or club WWF, but the WWE loosened up on that as well. So now when they said and it's been this way for at least a year, I don't know. I'm bad, what times, but when they send somebody to an evolved show, it same Adam Cole, he ends that his match will air, on the all show on the on the pay per view stream, so yeah, and gave us a Polski working with. He's the Booker for revolve. And he obviously is working with annexed, he is, well, you know, they're not trying to hide any of that. But yeah, there's clearly a partnership there. And minor standing is like they have an official deal. And like with the progress wrestling is one and I believe I see w over in Scotland, I think it is another group where they have partnerships, you know, contractually with WWE to eventually, get their product up on the WWE network, perhaps whenever they moved to tears. To the tier system in the press release they just describe evolve as or this is triple triple h is quotes, the only context what evolve is. I'm sure a lot of people reading this, like what what's this about? And even in the about section of the press release they don't go about evolve go about WWE and we got the generic Dodi be summary. So they're not taking ownership. They just have triple, h thank evolve was the birthplace from any current WBZ NFC superstar. So it's only fitting that their tenth anniversary celebration will be showcase live onto it would be network. So that's all they say to put it in, in context. So this is where it's interesting. Is this is going head to head and including overlapping timeslots with fight for the fallen the July thirteenth, Awa vented, Jacksonville, Florida? I'll root of eight w to preemptively counter evolves, tenth anniversary. Jason. I I it's all just one big coincidence, from WWE. I'm sure we had the date booked, and all this has been set in stone for well over a year. I'm guessing we're going to be hearing some of that on the next poll that conference call. But maybe not maybe they'll just, you know, we're running our show. They're running their show Soviet. Yeah, I mean if this is the, you know. The first shot fire that leads to an escalation. Yeah. I mean, like then, then what does Awa do. And that gets into what you said earlier. We're, we're things could go Hake w could go on Monday night for their first show just for fun before moving to Wednesday. I don't. Yep. This is just something to keep an eye on Matt, Matt riddle and drew dulack in the in the main event. So an annex t star. Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me, Jason Powell hosted, the free, weekly pro wrestling, boom podcast each week. You'll hear the latest news and analysis for me, and my team and pro wrestling dot net along with other wrestling media members, plus the pro wrestling, boom podcast features long-form interviews with notable names in the fro resume industry. Subscribe, an I tune Stitcher downcast and all your favorite secondary apps. Or visit us directly at p w bloomed dot com. Once again, that's p w boom dot com. By the way, Jason, I'm really excited about the next month or so this breakout tournament is really cool. I want to see you know, mentioned chain strict. I wanna see the spin that they put on the t character refinement or, or whatever the presentation of some of these some of these wrestlers this is really cool. So it's a nice mix of diverse mix of, of names who have established themselves, otherwise at, you know, whether it's, it's Trevor Lee for instance. Shane Strickland even. MGM my head, who's the DJ's DJ say thank you to three letters. Yes. Indeed Jay Z get a makeover like this. This is. Sam Shaw like I mean, I'm excited about this. I think this is a really cool use of that exte- to have this kind of summer season of this influx of new class at talent. Definitely. And I think that is also related to annex or two eighty w the fact that they're back to you're getting a WWE name. I don't you know I mean because we've seen for quite some time now and they bring talent in you just get to keep your name, and in all of a sudden, they're back to that, where everybody asked to have a new name a presumably, so don't they do leave the the system. They can't DJ's e can't bring his WWE name now to all aid w which I mean makes sense to a point I guess I I understand it. But I do think it's related. I found that the timing to be very interesting there. But I think it's a positive for song. I like Jay Z. He's a wrestling DJ. I mean we'll see what his gimmick is. Maybe it's the same. But I I do think in some cases like, yeah, let's, let's, let's put a fresh coat of paint on some of the games at these guys have I've never quite understood what they're going forward with Shane's slurp Strickland. So I was kind of surprised to see. Oh he's still swerve. He just has a different name. Well, maybe you can get it explained to you Marlin. Allah will will tell us or national McGuiness will tell us. I hope so. Yeah, we really, really talented group of wrestlers. They had this going to be a lot of fun. Yeah. Yeah, it is. And what do you think? Damien pre so far punishment. I think we've only seen him what once television show and it was fine. You know, I thought it was he kind of worked like you would expect him to where I think it was wrong woman Mendoza, he was facing memory serves whoever was got some offense in, but he never was able to take him off his feet even when he sent him to ringside the old. Punishment. Martinez still lands on his feet, which, you know, he, he, he did a nice job of that sort of thing early on in ring of honor as well. So I don't think that styles is very new to him. I think, and I, I think really talented guy. I always kind of worried I was surprised basically when I saw like when he was first starting to ring of honor his age. I mean this, this is not a young man. He looks, it would it not a young man. So I would hope that with this is, and with his background, you know, they'll find tune him in next team, maybe for a year, and I think he has made roster written all over so fun, fun time in annex t I like when we see a new class of, of talent come in and refreshing because one of the things that keeps an X T fresh, and it wrestlers are on this journey. Some are going to make it today roster who who's like your is there a blue Chipper in this group or is it? Let's ask me in a month. Let's see how these guys do in the next he's setting who jumps out to you in this. Group from their prior experience, as someone who you're like. Yeah. Watch them closely because in a year, give or take they're going to be on the main roster. And a major player on let me take a look at the Barack it again because I don't have the names handy, but I can get them any other time. We Kapiti comes up immediately, but not today. So we'll go to some other site and hope for the best on this. I guess so I mean I didn't I don't know that he's main roster bound by can't miss on the main roster. But I I'm really looking forward to seeing what they do with the Trevor Lee. Yeah. Impact just completely dropped the ball there. Let's see here. And of course, I get the one that doesn't have their former names. So we have angel Garza, who was they listen is in Burto, Garza, believe he was guards at junior brought before this talented guy. Don't know much about VO, I don't know much about Jona rock, who is now Bronson read, but I think he has. I, I can't get a Bill just from the pictured. How tall the guy is. But he's certainly a big thick dude. Fence would love that Cameron Grimes is what Trevor Lee is going by now. Sam show, I think is a talented guy who has some, some work to do in the ring. He's at thirteen year vet according to the bio, and I like I like the way plays the character more than I've liked his in ring, but this'll give I'm happy. It's getting an opportunity. I think. I do. I think changed Rickman is probably a guy even though I can't guy that gets a main roster run. At some point, even though I've never been, I've never quite seen in Shane Strickland. What the companies he's worked for have. He was the L W champion. And he's, he's been given big pushes wherever he's gone. It seems like I I see there's talent there. But I just an crowds love to sing it's his theme song. And w that was a big thing, but yeah, just I get the sense that he had like, but I've heard Keith Lee sort of has. I am a gift to annex t attitude that his holding back a little bit. And that might be why there's some starts and stops his push it shade circling. I haven't heard as much about him. But I got the sense watching that he kind of feels like he's pretty special if he is you got to show it not acted like you need to go out the liver. I think it's in them. I'm I'm no. He's throwing showing signs of that. But now it's time to turn it up. If you wanna have a lucrative career, there's no more pacing yourself or looking at the size of the crowd, or thinking about the promoter of what your path is going to be or thinking, I'm the biggest star in this locker room because you're not right. And I also want okay show like he's, he's been impressive in rank. He's going out and I've seen them have really good matches. He just hasn't connected as a character yet. And maybe some of that is just lack of opportunity. So I'm excited to see him kind of get a fresh start next. He is well in, in that area on just a rounded. Out here. Trying to think of who the let me get to the other two entrances, only mention DJ's e really talented guy again. You'll keen wild is the new name. And, and I hope he's not a wrestling DJ anymore. I hope he doesn't do that lasted. But yes that please, let the bromance thing die. But he, he for some reason kept doing that after bromance, even when he was a baby face. He does it everywhere. I don't know. People do react to it. It drives me insane. It just brings me back to bromance. And then Jordan miles, who was ACH very talented guy. I think one of the issues plaguing. This class is size in most cases when it comes to the main roster won't be an issue in next. He unfortunately, we know it is with bench. All right. Let's look at our awake and best in the world coming up tomorrow night. It's a Friday night show in Baltimore and then night to be the TV tapings, but we'll obviously focus on the pay per view itself. So made of it arch world title, Jeff Cobb taking on Matair even the Tabin title run is still kind of a common is could it turn out that he's a transition to just get the belt on? Jeff cobber is Jeff Cobb. Not being portrayed on the weekly TV show in a way that makes you think that's what's around the corner. I think they're committed to Ceva n-. They in people in the company speak very highly of him. They seem to have a higher opinion of him. Then most of their audience, does I think he I do think there's a lot of talent there. And he's toned down on some of the Melvin show that he was doing. I think Jeff Cobb is a guy that I, I, I would shake things up and ring of honor, I just think they need to do something. But, you know, case can be made that it's not gonna happen. Overnight. Let's drag this feud out a little bit. And what's worked toward Jeff Cobb becoming the champion? I think it can be a good view. I'll be disappointed if it's I'll tell you even goes over clan. When I don't know what cops contractual status is because I know he signed one year deal and around the middle of, of the year, and then there's been, I think he gave indications that he signed on for longer. But I don't know how much longer if it's if they just extended him to the end of the year because for some weird reason while actually I know why. Because new Japan, does it this way. So ring of honor must up his deal is going to be up at the end of the year or not. So that could be a factor here as well. I just don't know what is what is how long he's committed during honor for. And if he's not long term, they may not get, obviously want to go with him as there. Champion. Then we've got the world title, excuse me, the world television title, Shane Taylor and Bondo. Bure previous they've had a mashed before on television, I believe, and it was very good. I Taylor put him in there at the right opponent, and he can do some good things. And I think this should be a good match. They I think Bandido was in Japan and so they really didn't get to promote this, well, and oddly enough, I'm watching to go home show and chain Taylor, who won the television, title, not on television. But on, I think it was obviously in the streaming service or something. And we haven't heard much from on the TV shows. I'm like, here we go go home show, he's going to promote the match with Bandido talks about everything. But Bandido I don't think his name ever came up and I'm like, was this meant air next week after the paper because it was bizarre. He just talked about how Jay lethal has been the longest running champion. He wants to break that record, you have a pay per view match on Friday. Let's talk about let's nothing OB. So I don't. Necessarily blame him for it. It was just it's strange promo to air but yeah, I think that is going to be fun Bandidos, a guy that they really should be building around. Yeah. I don't care that he's a undercard guy in Mexico, all out of times people here. See him as a star when they see him. He's won over how show crowds that have been completely unfamiliar with them? So build around him flip Gordon and rush, singles match what's at stake here, Russia's unbeaten streak, and I, I'll I will be surprised if rush ns is unbeaten streak in this match. It's they're putting this one out there on their pre show for free. Now they did announce that they're doing a thirty minute pre show. I if you're somebody who watches on honor club, you may want to have another source handy, because just reading the, the what they put out here. Maybe I missed something, but it seems like it's hearing everywhere but honored club on the fight TV broadcasts, the pay per view broadcast. Maybe it'll air there, too, but yeah, I think this is Rouge going over. There's been taught that BRUCE'S kind of an old school dude in that he's not fond of doing jobs anyway. And that might be part of the reason why he still unbeaten but really talented dude. But he's, you know, he's property of Sierra, L, essentially, and so I mean, ringing Monterey has a deal with them he's going to be regular. But yeah, I just wonder how I I don't get the sense. They really know what to do with him yet. And where are you on flip Gordon, and where do you think our wages on him? You know, some setbacks kind of derailed some some starts and starts. Yeah. They, they took he had the program with bully Ray and it went, well, I think the idea was to kind of give him more of an edge. And I, I liked it, but then they brought it back at the garden and I kinda get it because lipid been out all that time. And so he didn't have another obvious opponent and it didn't go as well. And then the key may have been another guy who is in Japan. So they've really haven't been able to do much with him on television. He's kind of directionless at the moment. I think he's a talented guy. Really needs to work on the promos. Yes. Don't castle dragon late the idea here. Is that dragon Lee as Russia's younger brother and don't castle is still ticked off about losing twenty seconds to Rouge at the garden. And so rather than challenge Reuss to another match each. His brother to another match odd. Ragging is incredibly talented. I just don't for whatever reason when he comes to the states, I it doesn't seem like he is booked to his full potential Dalton castles, a talented guy, but I it's been awhile since we've seen him have a memorable match because he's had back problems. And so, yeah, it's, it's a kind of a question Mark, you know how healthy is Dalton? And if he is could be a good match. It's not an obvious high flying cruiserweight opponent. Like you're used to getting four dragon Lee. But yeah I'm curious to see how the match goes. I would assume that because dragon is kind of a he's not a regular that dulls probably getting the win here. What's your take on Jay lethal? Kenny, and Kenny king having singles, matcher the ads, the third match of a best of three. Yeah. And the idea was that Kenny king was blinded by. I think it was Muthu at Madison Square Garden with him hissed, and he was doing this bid, and it was very entertaining, especially I watched some of the shows on honored club. We only get to see it like once maybe on the television show when he would he would come out wearing blinders, and with a cane and get a woman that would lead him to the broadcast, table, and like things would happen in the ring, and he'd know because he's blind, supposedly he'd call the executive something completely wrong. It was it was actually very entertaining in small doses. But it all turned out, it was a ruse. I know this will shock you. He wasn't really blind. He was scouting Jay lethal. And now he beats him with his finisher in the first match second match. He decides he's going to walk out because he's not stupid. He wants to do this on the big stage when he beats Jay lethal, and it ended up being a D Q finish anyway. So this sets up the need for the third match. I, I think they've given this way too much time on television, like if it was a segment on the show, great. But to they had they had a four corner survival match two weeks ago. That had Jeff commented and he's the guy challenging for the title, and he ended up winning the match, but only because Kenny king interfered, or distracted Jay lethal. So there's it did nothing project Cobb who, then didn't appear on the go home show. It was all about. Jay, lethal, and Kenny king. And then they had the second match of the best of three on the goal home show. And it's like this is a mid card match. This isn't something. No one's buying the pay per view to see the deciding match. I'm sorry. So I yeah, it'll be fine. But it's a amid. Hard match. If you could pick if you're a WJ, lethal or Kenneth king to add to your roster. Who do you take Jay lethal because of the history? Kenny just hasn't quite connected. There's all it's always victors a little something missing. I was really looking forward to seeing what was going to happen with him an impact, they had kind of a new. They were building two and then he left and yeah, I, I mean, I think there's, there's a lot of talent there. But he just never quite lived up to expectations were Jay at least just because he'd been the know a major player in renaissance for so long. I think you can at least get something out of that. I don't age wise. I don't know if they're roughly the same or whether add, but yeah, I go lethal. Briscoe brothers taking on Nick all this end partner. Yeah. Cold Cabanas, which ultimately injured. He's going to miss this. I watched the NWEA video, or I thought they were going to name a replacement and basically just told you tune in Friday to find out. Uh-huh. So, yeah, I don't know who it's going to be, what do you think all this in this in this role in a tag match with the Briscoes amid I'd rather see Nick defending the NWEA championship against a good opponent. But they're kind of like the brisk goes had been anti NWEA's since the Crockett Cup. And so it's just kind of combining that I don't know if the ideas now the colts, I mean, clearly wasn't the idea. But maybe now that cold is out whoever they bring in. Maybe it's gonna lead to some friction in lendup being all this as next challenge or something like that. And I'm just guessing you're the only guy that's really been associated with them in the singles division recently that, that hasn't left her. You know that just seems like he's in good standing as James storm. He's been going after Colt Cabanas national championship. I guess it could be storm. If it's not, I'm not sure who it is a village, enterprises, mardi. Skirl Brody, king PCL, taking on lifeblood marquess concentrate. See Williams, along with PJ black, just good use of villain enterprises on a showcase paper, you know, there is kind of a day of an excuse because I think Marty was also in Japan. And so he wasn't at the television taping. Yeah. I who cares about the six man tag titles. I don't care about them in Japan. I don't care about them in ring of honor, and I like PTO and MAURICE girl, and Brody king, and I still don't give a damn about those titles. It's what a lot of names, you're pushing as part of this sort of class, two thousand nineteen in our way, chapter losing some, the w is this point a lot of guys into just in one match. That doesn't it's doesn't Freberg von Eric's like this doesn't feel like the best use of those names. No, it doesn't and they're, they're just stubbornly sticking with them. And, and they. Title changes and no one like the live crowd will pop deep down. No one really cares. So I mean, I think it'll be a fine match or some talent in there. But I just I don't care. It's not great use of MAURICE girl. But again, you know you didn't have access to him. He couldn't really build up to a singles match. So kind of understandable. Then there's the allure against Kelly Klein in Jenny rose. This has been a debacle. I just don't think the allure have connected the way that our wish thought they would have thought we'll bring them in. We'll be vehicle for Mandy rose and because of their impact history, and they don't necessarily fit with what we do in our division. It'll be good contrast, and they'll get some heat for it, and it just really hasn't gone, well, and some of the reason is that I don't have strong baby faces Kelly Klein was a keel until the garden show. They flipped her baby face. The original idea of minder, standing is it was going to be the three allure members. And then they were. Going to turn Kelly, and she was going to team with to kneel dash would and Madison rain and that may have met with Madison's history with the beautiful people that would have been at least a connection there. And but both Madison and to Neil dash would left ring of honor, and so now they're kind of trying to introduce Janney rose into this, and she doesn't really fit they just they haven't made me care about this. They had a they were going to have this exact match on television a couple of weeks ago, and they did the introduction for. Thank you. Maybe one half what you know one of the teams. And then when they came back from the break, they just showed highlights of the allure beating them up, and it was done in, like twenty seconds. Doc, and then the last match, I think, Silas young Jonathan Gresham pure rules match looking for to this. No, I if it'll be it'll be fun. They've spent a lot of time on TV with Silas, trying to heal without he's been wrestling in this mast guy named the squid and the same guy worked as L hotel squid. And it was like, you know, it's like they're just trying to be a little too cutesy with the, the ideas. Like silence is acting like he's this pure wrestler. And of course, he cheats, and then for some reason, so he beats the squid guy. And after both matches he lights up a smoke in the middle of the rain. And like okay, like I I don't really get it. But okay. I was can be entertaining but I don't I don't think they had Jonathan Gresham last taping, either, so they have all these patches with people who weren't at the last television taping. So I kind of understand to a point, but it's like maybe come up with ways to work around that and had mashed with people, you do have access to or shoot a bunch of promos at least with people that you that, you know, are leaving. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. Plan more ahead. When you don't have one hundred percent USA, some talent and try to preempt some of the things that, that lead to an ink breaks in hype for matches that when you have a pay per view you want. You don't want to have those breaks you wanna have television. Well, that's a Chris Miller, TV show. But you want to have the TV show, actually lead to the pay per view, and be able to build each of the matches in a sensible way. Exactly. Yeah. Planet are cool. So do you recommend the show or is this on a on a curve for our away to one of the more skip -able shows average show? Or no, this this looks good yet this, I. Okay. So it's a big step down from the garden where they had in Japan and all at it. I the wage delivers it like if you're just looking for a good quality wrestling show. Yes, I think you'll, you'll be satisfied with your purchase, but the thing away has to keep in mind is that they're not just playing against WWE impact wrestling anymore in others, the, the show on Saturday night for free on Biard live, the, the fighter fascia that AWS doing next week new Japan on access on Saturday. And then on Sunday at the impact wrestling slam verse reshow just had stomping grounds. So there's a lot out there and there's, there's just no pizzazz here. Now, I do think that the company is aware that they're kind of in this rut, and they could surprise me trying to shake things up. I do get the sense that they know like, hey, we gotta do something. So maybe it'll be one of those turning point pay per views. That's the best I can do is just tell. You like aren't the ring work will be good. And maybe they'll, they'll shake things up. Yeah. Yep. Aren't very good. Anything else on the flagship chasing him out of touch on. I think I'm trying to think if we've missed anything but I think we've covered it all cool. So how could I forget my God? August sixth. The return of MS MS in MRs okay. Them or Joe show. I can't wake should be fun should be fun. Yeah. I'm glad he's not that end. People would be mailing us like crazy. Why didn't you bring that up? I can't leave. We didn't start with that. I know. I know. All right. Good. So checkout. Jason on Twitter at pro wrestling net. You gotta check out his website, pro wrestling dot net, and check out his podcast approaching boom podcast. Just search pro wrestling, boom and download the purple logo and you can get a showcase a Jason every week. You don't have to wait for him to peer every three weeks. Jason, thank you so much, my pleasure. And again, Friday, Bruce Mitchell, you guys know him. You guys love him. Well, you might not love him. But he'll. Will be there on the boom. So look for on Friday afternoon. Absolutely. Well, he'll do record numbers as often happens when Jason joins me here on the Thursday flagship, we go so long with current events and looking head. What's coming up over the next week? We don't get to the emails that you guys sent in so we're going to do a separate show a Friday mailbag answering your Email questions. So download the show tomorrow. We'll have that for you on a special Friday mailbag edition of the word killer person podcast. Also, don't forget over on the red brand. If you're not subscribing, why not do it right now. It's the end of today's show, just search Wade Keller on apple podcasts or whatever podcast app, you're using and look for the red logo looks just like this shows blue logo except it's red, and it's got a post show on it, and you can catch up on our post Ron Paul smackdown shows from earlier this week's catering. Joining me post raw gripe parks, joining me. Pull smackdown. We had onsite correspondents from both cities that hosted Ron smackdown and also had some spirited conversations with passionate callers and some really good emails. So catch up on those and then this Saturday night, we'll have a new show. It'll be the first eighty w Poche oh, and it'll be following fighter fest, including Jon Moxley, and his US eighty w debut, an officially in terms of a match also Kenya mega, the young bucks, Cody, and hangman page and so much more. So you can find the livestream for that show, the link to the livestream on PW torch dot com in our e w fighter fest report. You can also find it on Twitter at PW torch the night of the event, and then join us on the livestream, and that will also include the phone number that you can call to listen in or participate. So I look forward to this, it's going be fun doing a live. Call in show about a topic that isn't rot or smackdown. And that's coming up this Saturday within just a few minutes. A fighter fest ending, you know, one two, three four five six minutes afterwards, we'll get setup and, and start the livestream rich fan is joining me as co host of that program. If you're attending fighter fest. Let me know we want an onsite correspondent. We haven't liked anybody up yet. So let me know send an Email to Wade Keller podcast at PW torch dot com with like to know what it was like in the building. And we'll talk to you about that. You can also send emails about the show while it's happening or afterwards at Wade Keller podcast at P w torch dot com. Aren't that does it for me for today? Thank you. Everybody for your support. Follow me on Twitter at the Wade Keller at the Wade Keller and follow brand at PW, torch, unto, Witter, Instagram, and Facebook, and of course, checkout, POW torch dot com, every day for breaking news. My TV reports by paper reports, and so much more. That's p w torch dot com. Phillix time. Wade Keller thinking you thinking Jason and signing up. 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