COVID-19 Protesters: A Look at the American Legacy of Demanding Freedom at the Expense of Others 2020-05-07
The people protesting around the country are demanding states reopen. Even though the data shows it will affect our most vulnerable communities. It's important to be careful when we began to talk about individual rights when it ultimately comes at the expense of someone else's rights or even the individual freedom when it comes at the expense of someone else's a freedom. I'm Shumita Basu. In for Tanzania Vega and today on the takeaway Thursday may seventh. We break down the racial history of choosing individual freedom over community health then. How kids are struggling during the pandemic and how we can help absolutely. We need to talk to our children. Even our young children and that's sometimes a hard conversation because as adults we may have our own stress and distress with this and we hear from the experts themselves. Hi My name is Colin. I live on Long Island. The hardest thing about the quarantine is not seeing my friends and the best part about the porn team is not going outside and going to school that I'm nine years old round out the show by hearing from musicians in Missouri where the governor has deemed. Concert venues can reopen all that and more. Let's get to it last weeks now. Small groups of protesters across the country have been calling for an end to state shutdowns and covert Nineteen government oversight last week protesters in Lansing Michigan stormed the Capitol building and demanded to be let into the House Chambers as legislators deliberated extending their state shut down many of these protesters were carrying assault rifles wearing tactical gear some were holding images of confederate flags swastikas and nooses. While some including Michigan Governor Gretchen. Whitmer HAVE SAID. These PROTESTS ARE FUELED BY RACISM. The protesters themselves say they're fighting for their individual rights. Here's Protester Joni George in Lansing. There's people that are compromised. Immune wise people that are older weaker and they can't take it free to sign their homes. That's what freedom is. This isn't freedom. But what kind of freedom is it when it comes at the expense of others? That's the question Abram X. Candy asked in a recent article he wrote for the Atlantic. Abram is the director of the anti-racist Research and Policy Center American University in the United States Black and Brown communities have experienced higher numbers of Kobe nineteen cases and deaths than white communities the freedom. These protesters are calling for could increase the spread of the virus and further this viral disparity either Mex- candy and Kisha Blaine a w. e. b. do boys fellow at Harvard University and an associate professor of history at the University of Pittsburgh. Joined us to talk about this. Abram said that the legacy of choosing individual freedom over community health can be traced back to the psyche of slaveholders slaveholders. Wanted to live in a state where they had the freedom as individuals to not only enslaved people but to disenfranchise people to exploit people to impoverished people to rate people and on down the line and they felt any restriction on that ability to enslave to disenfranchise to even kill was a restriction on their freedom and they spoke about it in the in that way and ended up succeeding from the Union because they felt the union was not providing them with their freedom and I contrast that more individual freedom with community freedom which is the freedom of of enslaved people from slavery or a community from disenchant FIS men or from exploitation of poverty and and this freedom from is more or less freedom from harm a freedom from even harm of of those individuals who do not care about the the the lives of the rest of us in what the freedom like now even to infect us Kisha through history when we have seen this mentality of prioritizing individual freedom and state's what has been the result of that and the impact of that on black and Brown communities specifically the result has been catastrophic in fact as we all know we fought an entire war Because of this very argument people will say that. The civil war was ultimately fought to protect states' rights yet. As Abram pointed out when we really get to the heart of the matter it was a question of. How do you protect states' rights when the rights that states are demanding or the rights to keep black people in slate if we went down the line of states rights and if we allowed slaveholders to ultimately have their way I would be enslaved today And so in the end. I think it's important to be careful when we began to talk about individual rights when it ultimately comes at the expense of someone else's rights or even the individual freedom when it comes at the expense of someone else's a Abram. My WanNa connect some of those ideas to what's happening today to the protests that were seeing people who adamantly want things to reopen again when protesters today are saying that they are fighting for their freedom. What do you think that they mean by that? I believe they. They're saying their freedom to the freedom to harm which essentially means the freedom to infect that and and I think they're I'm really seeking to contrast them with other Americans who recognize that if we open states back up then the likelihood of social distancing of course declines than the the likelihood that more people are infected and even die rises but these individuals aren't thinking about what's best for the community. They're only really thinking about what's best for themselves even if their actions even if these states reopening will harm community Abram in your piece in the Atlantic you said that the individual freedoms these protesters want could come at the expense of not just the community at large but specifically black and brown communities. Can you talk about the disproportionate impact of this outbreak on black and Brown communities? Sure so last I checked about. Eighteen states have already reopened about sixteen of those eighteen states. They they'll states have released racial demographic data of those sixteen states. Thirteen of those states. S- thirteen of those sixteen states where we have racial demographic data that have reopened. People of color are suffering disproportionate harm from Kobe. Nineteen meeting according to the Racial Data. People of color are more likely to be infected and or more likely to have been killed by Kobe. Nineteen and especially black people and so to give an example in Alabama black people comprise about forty three point. Five one percent of the krona virus cases and another forty five percent of the deaths but only about twenty seven percent of the population and racial disparity is indicative of what's happening in Mississippi and Tennessee in Colorado and South Carolina as well as Georgia. All of these are all states that have reopened. There's also states like Utah which Latina ex people are fourteen percent of the population but thirty six percent of the krona virus cases. Or even Idaho where the death disparity among native Hawaiians the highest in any group or even Wyoming Native Americans make up two point seven percent of the state but eighteen percent of the cases Corona virus cases. So these racial disparities are are pervasive in the dairy states. That have Oakland last week in Oregon. Hundreds of protesters gathered at the state capital. Some of them were carrying rifles with seen at some of these protests imagery of confederate flags even swastikas and nooses. Kisha are we seeing any similar protests armed protests against shutdowns in other countries or is this a uniquely American thing it it seems to be a uniquely American. I am not aware of armed protesters in the same fashion. I'm certainly aware that they are protests. Happening across the globe I was reading even this week about several different protests happening in Italy and as we know they have been established by Kobe. Nineteen and I notice for example. Hundreds of business owners. Those who owned restaurants in particular and bought restaurants and bars decided to out turn on their lights at a particular mom and turn off their lights at another moment as sort of symbolic gesture gesture I mean so all of these things are protests Whether people are protesting this day at home laws or whether people are protesting others are protesting even the efforts to open up Italy. That's a very different kind of discourse I think and a very different kind of response if we are talking about stay at home orders and if there is resistance to People staying at home in this moment in order to you know in order to ensure that the corner virus does not spread further. Then why would a group of people show up at the state capital in Lansing Michigan With guns what does this have anything to do with the corner virus? It's obvious that if you're showing up with with guns you're showing up To intimidate your showing up to ultimately terrify individuals. And it's not surprising that these guns appear at the very same moment that we also see people with confederate flags we see people with swastikas with nooses. All of these are connected and so once again. What's happening is in this moment. People call upon the First Amendment and they call up on the second amendment. They use these as covers to try to explain away why they are. In fact engaging practices that are intended to terrorise hoops of individuals? And so that is exactly. I think what's happening with this and is also telling that they're showing up also without any facemask Which innovate self is sending? Another message about the ways that they don't necessarily see call the nineteen as a threat to themselves clearly because they're not even following a recommendations that are given by the CDC so so again corona virus becomes the cover a second amendment claims become the cover even even First Amendment claims. Be become the cover but in the end what you're finding at least in the case of of Lansing Michigan. Quite frankly or a group of of of white supremacists many of them. Who who want to interrogate an and want to intimidate people with these guns Abram I want to give you the last word here it sounds like what you're saying is the very concept of freedom means something entirely different two different groups of Americans and that that distinction is drawn across racial lines. So where does that leave us? In a country that has largely centered. Its identity on the concept of freedom however flawed that might be. I think we're where leaves. is a recognition that even something as basic our lease seemingly basic as the concept of freedom has always been highly sort of our contentious. And I I know the enslave her. In the enslave had completely different conceptions of freedom and that psyche of the slave holder that any restriction on their individual ability to do what they want even if those restrictions are preventing them from harming other people that that is away their freedoms that psyche. That idea I think lives on to this day. And so that's how you have for instance black people who are protesting against the ability. The freedom for police officers to shoot in murder or even a regular citizen to shoot in murder anyone who they fear they want that freedom. We're saying no. You cannot have that freedom. You should not have the freedom to harm people indiscriminately in the way. Slaveholders did and and so. I think that this is something that I think. Americans have been fighting over. The very notion of freedom from the beginning either. Mex- Candy is the director of the anti-racist Research and Policy Center at American University and a contributor to the Atlantic and Kisha Lane is a w. e. d. boys fellow at Harvard University and an associate professor of history at the University of Pittsburgh. Thank you both very much for joining us. Thank you for having. Although not as many children seemed to be getting gravely ill from the krona virus. They aren't immune to the psychological effects of the crisis but systemic racism and inequality is making this pandemic even more difficult for kids in marginalized communities increased racism involving such as worrying about once fiscal safety when wearing a mosque which is highly relevant concern for black communities or the lack of resources for example poor quality health care for poor families or no healthcare for undocumented immigrants or educational inequalities including whether family has a device or even a quiet dedicated space for successful on schooling or an adult in the home was able to facilitate homeschooling. That's Chris Chia a professor of psychology at the University of Maryland. Baltimore County but all of the kids in our lives are being psychologically affected by this experience to help us understand this and what we can do to make this a little easier for them. I spoke with Garissa. Along with Robin Gurwitch a psychologist and professor at Duke University Medical Center specializing in children and families. I asked Robyn to explain what we know from. Past events like September eleventh and Hurricane Katrina about how young people are affected by crises so when children are overly stressed it impacts their behavior. So you're going to see. Some behavior changes your. It's going to affect their emotions in so there's a whole range of motions. It's going to affect how their bodies feel so they may have more headaches or stomach aches. What many people are probably seeing now with Kobe? Nineteen terms of behavior. Depending on the age younger children may be more clingy and more needy than usual have more temper tantrums in meltdowns get older. You may notice that they become a little bit more irritable they may have a harder time with focus and concentration and even being able to remember tours that they would normally be doing without any problem. So there's a whole range that we will see in children who are feeling incredibly stressed. And now that we're a few months into this pandemic. Some parents have probably started to talk with their kids. About what's going on. Should they be doing that? Should they keep doing that What kind of guidance do you have for them? The answer honestly from everything we know is absolutely. We need to talk to our children even our young children. And that's sometimes a hard conversation because you dull we may have our own stress and distress with this So the conversation can be as simple as we've been staying at home because of Corona virus. Talk About Cova. Tell me what you think about this. That gives adults in idea of where their children or teenagers are starting from. What do they know so it allows us to correct misinformation misperceptions than that honestly with? How is this making you feel and you will see anything from. I love being home with you all the time from your four year old all the way up to feelings of worry and anxiety and stress. How do you tackle the uncertainty of this moment of the timeline? Of what comes next. That is what makes Cova nineteen very unique. We don't have a time line. I can't how you. On June twenty-first everything will be great. I wish I could so I think the best thing we can do is when we talk to our children. We can let them know. Things are changing in a big things. Change I'll make sure I'll let you know for now. Here's what we're doing. Here's what's happening in our communion our family. Here's what's happening in our community but also give children away. They can do something. That's also important to children's resilience. It may be as simple as helping to prepare meal for the family. Or if you're baking to deliver adore drop of cookies to a neighbor next door. Children may have lots of different ways that they may want to contribute to helping and it's important to listen to their ideas and support that Chris. Oh we've talked on this program about the stresses that parents are facing right now. What do we know about what parents might be inadvertently passing onto their kids especially after being isolated and at home together children look to parents for signs of whether they should be anxious they should be fearful whether they should be distress? And so an important thing that we tried to tell. Parents is also like how you're managing yourself in your stress is sometimes a model for how children might be doing. The same. Might be coping with that as well. You can have this indirect way through children looking to parents for different strategies and approaches but also if parents are anxious and stress. They might be more likely to create a stressful home climate or environment. That's may be more chaotic. Maybe less structured than what children need to thrive on and so there are those ways as well and you know for. Some parents may be there watching a lot of news and you know needing feel as if they need a lot of information in order to keep up with things but not being conscious that children might be also hearing and listening to these things to you know news at numbers in the way that they caught process. I know that you have been looking into. How minority communities might be impacted more acutely by trauma at a time like this. What are you learning one of the projects? I'm on focuses on the increase in xenophobia and racism targeting Asian Americans broadly. The particular project focuses on Chinese Americans but we know that anyone who appears as if they might be associated with an Asian background as being targeted as well during this period in some early preliminary findings from my study. I find that over. Eighty percent of the children aged ten to eighteen report having either experience or witness on line exit of discrimination targeting themselves or or same race or ethnicity at colby percent. Yes witness at least one instance and some you know multiple more than that. This is I think the first set of data that's showing from children's report with incumbent nineteen of of witnessing or experiencing discrimination and it is on one hand not surprising because people have been talking about it on the other hand. It's quite distressing. Obviously so what can parents and loving adults in the lives of these children who are witnessing and and feeling the effects of discrimination what can adults in their lives talk to them about what would be helpful. Sometimes parents wanting to protect their children might avoid discussing issues particularly issues are about race and race relations in the US which for many parents are is an uncomfortable topic for them themselves in particular if they are let's say first generation immigrants and don't themselves have or believe they have a good understanding of these issues and so some parents might want to protect children and say that while Free. Just keep our heads down work hard. Just focus on what needs to be done. That's the best approach. But the research consistently shows that talking to children's so engaging in what we call racial ethnic or cultural socialization appears to have a lot of benefits for children and so this broader construct of cultural socialization includes talking to children about their culture and you know serve their their history which has been shown to increase ethnic racial pride and children which is protective factor but there are other aspects that include on preparing children for bias preparing children for the discrimination that they will inevitably experience in their lives made also includes more direct discussions about it and so we tell parents that especially in a situation like this where we see that children over eighty percent are witnessing some forms of discrimination or xenophobia that proactively engaging children added developmentally appropriate level about what they might experience about what might be going on but also importantly making sure that they have to tools in order to address some of this what they should do if this happened to them rather than just increasing their vigilance and anxiety without giving them a sense that they might have some control over what they should do if this ever happened to them or if they've witnessed it happening to someone else to care about as we go through this one of the questions for caring and loving adults to ask themselves. What's one value? What's some beliefs that we hope to foster instill grow in our children because while there is the xenophobia? Racism with Asian Americans were also seeing yet toward African Americans in anti-semitism is on the rise. So what's one value that you want to leave your children with that they can learn from this? How do we practice kindness towards each other? How do we make sure that what do I do if I see somebody saying something mean about one of my friends so as parents talk about difficult topics you're also setting incredible groundwork if my mom died grandma? Whoever that loving caring adult for them is willing to talk about the difficult topics? Now whether it's Cova da whether it's racism other things because they're talking to me about it and they're encouraging me to ask questions or tell them my experiences. You're setting the groundwork that I can come back whether it's peer pressure or whether it's bullying or whether it is other kinds of intense feelings of disappointment I can talk to my caring adult 'cause they will talk about the tough stuff. Robin is a psychologist and professor at Duke University Medical Center specializing in children and families and Chris. Chia is a professor of psychology at the University of Maryland. Baltimore County now. We continue talking about how kids are doing during this moment by talking to well the experts themselves. I'm Calvin and I live in guilty. It s thing. Is that like easier but did that thing is. You can't feel fun My Name's Charlotte. I'm from Dallas Texas and I'm twelve years old quarantine can be really fun and really difficult. It is really fun because it kind of already feels like summer vacation. I get more time to spend with my family but also quarantining has been hard because half of my family's quarantining somewhere from Raynham Massachusetts. I'm in fifth grade. The best thing about being home is getting to be on a computer all day and feel important. The worst thing is having to deal with my older sister sometimes. She makes lights for no reason. And that's a pain. My name is Cohen. I live on Long Island in the hardest thing about the quarantine is not seeing my friends and the best part of the quarantine is not going outside and going to school. That's I'm nine years old time. My name is Sophia and I am five years old. I Live and same how Oregon I am just still bore like can't play at school and my best friend is. Clarisa and I can't play over longer anymore. That you've been Reggie bike that I've been the On learn to ride my bag with no train mill sky names. The white I live in Anchorage Alaska the best part about being in quarantine is I get to work. Be Left alone. Read draws what. She's you also get to eat a lawsuit. The worst part is I'm an extrovert and I can't see my friend. I can only my friends over. Zun called not the same. Hi My name is Eliana. Look back from Yorktown C. Or some of the things I really like about being home is that I get to play with my brother. A lot and play with my mom a couple of things. I don't like about staying home. A lot is I can't go to my friends and play outside with them. I was to go middle school so now I don't even know if I can start for middle school also. My Dad works at a hospital so I can't really see him a loss during the day. Hi I'm Paul Richard Johnson. I live in move from Kentucky and I like. I like to sleep in what I like to do and I don't I don't like to do work. I'm seven years old. My name's torn I'M FROM CHARLOTTE NC. And my the best thing is playing with my dog in the worst thing is not having a variety. My my name is Owen. I'm eleven years old and I'm from Wilmington Delaware and the best part about being home is not being in school and like just kind of like playing around in the worst part is I have always doing homework and stuff from home and it's kind of hard because my teacher can't really help me from home as much as she can in person thank you. Hi My all olive and I am from sensory to New York. I am six years old. The best thing about being home so much is I get to be with my family. The hardest things are not being able to be my teacher friends. There was a definite trend in all the calls. We got kids are really missing their friends. Dr Robin Gurwitch. The psychologist we heard from a few minutes ago told us that when kids missed that peer interaction it can provoke anxiety and anger so get creative with solutions. She said especially with younger kids. She suggests multiplayer online games organizing dry birthday parties or starting an art project to share. Virtually with friends. Or even just with your siblings. My name is Eli. I'm eleven in the fifth grade and I live in Washington. Dc My name is bay. Im seven I am in Texas Great. I live in Washington. Dc Eli and Bayer are brother and sister who told us about taking on a unique project while stuck at home so we made a korn teen coloring book. Well actually base started and they told us about some of what they drew is called what you do with friends during the Corentin. And one of the friends sitting in a chair with a with a computer on it and One of the friends saying I wish we could see each other in person and the other France had. Yeah me too. And so there's a barn background and there's a chicken laying egg and the egg. It comes out in the face mask on so it's kind of funny and the sun there's a son and it's wearing a frowny face and in its mouth is a thermometer so it has a fever And in the pond in the background. There's only one duck. So the ducks are social. Distancing didn't know ducks Kanga could win nineteen but still when you look at these pictures. Like how do they make you feel? I read this article. Read the title of the article in the newspaper and it said sometimes you need a laugh through dark time and so this is kind of about that. Luckily I think I think that's good too. You can see some pictures of the quarantine coloring book on our website the takeaway dot org kids. We want to know how you're thinking and feeling right now and parents. How are your kids making sense of this moment? You can call us anytime at eight. Seven seven eight. My take and a huge. Thank you to the many many kids who have called us about their time. At home we have a lot more of your calls in our podcast and online at the takeaway dot org really appreciate you sharing. We loved hearing every one of your thoughts. This is the takeaway you're listening to the takeaway. I'm Shumita Basu. We just heard about the challenges. Kids are facing during locked down here in the United States and pretty much everywhere. Kids have been cooped up in their homes but it's been an especially longtime for children in Spain. The country was struck particularly hard by nineteen as of Wednesday. Spain had more than two hundred twenty thousand confirmed cases and around twenty six thousand deaths and while some have criticized the Spanish government for being slow to act. They did eventually put in place. One of the strictest lockdown orders in the world but in recent weeks the Spanish government has taken steps to loosen some of those restrictions. Cafes and restaurants can now reopen although only for delivery and just last week children under the age of fourteen were allowed. Go outside for the first time in six weeks. Linda Freund is a multimedia journalist based in Barcelona and the Co host of the checkpoint a podcast about parenting in a pandemic. She's been following the situation closely while also caring for her six year. Old Son Linda. Thanks for being here. Thanks for having me so your son whose name is rs. Right. That's right. What was it like for Arias to finally go outside again? It's an interesting question because I think what we're really seeing amongst children here. Is this sort of dissonance. Emerging so he was endorsed for six weeks along with seven million other children across Spain who were basically invisible overnight set inside seen not heard it was really an adult centric. Approach TO VIRUS. Containment here We have no patio. We have no outdoor space so he would basically run in circles in the living room and at times soak up some sun from an open window. It was difficult but the fact is we thought. Once we got that first news he could go outside again that he would be jumping for joy but he wasn't so sure about it when he got through the front door. He had his little mask on He he did skip initially and then he quickly stopped only looked around and I think because the outside looks very different and and we as adults doing the shopping going off for essential reasons We have become habituated to close storefronts the empty streets but he saw that Quiet and so I asked him. Are you excited right? And he said yes. No I suppo- why he said you know why Mommy right like. Don't ask me a stupid question. Poll but I WANNA point out this dissidence. It's it's quite clear for kids. I mean for weeks. We were justifying being inside by telling him you know Mr and Mrs Corona Virus. They're out there. We don't WanNa let him get into the house. We need to stay healthy. Wash your hands and then overnight it's like hey let's go for a bike ride. Get some fresh air of so. The transition has been a difficult one. Initially many parents here were actually offering their kids toys just so they would go for that initial walk to help them muscles through that initial fear but now seating more than a week later is kids are giggling again. They're scoring in the street. They're smiling albeit at a distance. But we're seeing some of that life return and the comfort level return as well. Have you noticed any changes in your son's behavior? Since the pandemic I started absolutely I mean who wouldn't of course when you keep a kid cooped up and all of a sudden right. He is separated from his friends. He saddled with more homework than ever before more. Holistically what is he in first grade or second hand yes six years old Berkeley all of his friends. What he said to be the other day I thought was so interesting. Said Mommy. It's like all of a sudden. All my friends are stuck in the computer screen. It's like they all shrunk. I thought about that and how kids are perceiving this. He's so used to just kids like to be with each other. I mean that is play. It's not necessarily this kind of high level conversation it's about being in each other's presence and when that is taken away or done through this kind of medium they're presented they're not presented at scale. I should say that that can can warp things a bit. You know allowing children back outside is just one way that the Spanish government is relaxing. Their lockdown measures. What other steps is the country taking right now to sort of ease out of lockdown? Well we are in what's called essentially phase zero so we have a multi tiered multi phase system and the reopening plan here in Spain. I think the name itself is pretty interesting is translates as planned for the transition towards a new normality which like first of all. I like the word normal. Should be retired right now. That might be right. Yeah I read. It just doesn't doesn't work anymore. But basically we're in phase zero so yesterday I was walking through the streets and I almost lost my breath because I saw barber shop open and people were cutting hair again People were taking appointments. There were some stores open with people who had had appointments waiting in lines outside to get articles of clothing so that's phase zero now depending on the numbers and it is going to vary based on provinces and autonomous regions. Catalonia's asking for a slower. Reopening has pushing to move into phase one like asap for economic reasons but in those two regions have been hit. Perhaps the hardest right Madrid and Catalonia. Its bid especially absolutely So if all goes as planned and we'll see there are definitely debates in government about timing. If all goes plan the de escalation for phase one would start on Sunday with small businesses reopening at thirty percent capacity restaurants at fifty percent capacity. And what's most interesting for me? Is that funerals and wakes will now be able to accommodate fifteen people because before it was limited to only three or in Madrid for a stretch. They were doing a lot of teleconferencing or there was one. Priest I recall was offering drive through funerals. No two minutes each and I think what people really need with was more than twenty five thousand deaths here over. The past. Few months is a chance to grieve together. A chance to share space even if at a social distance and just taken the gravity of everything and have Spaniards for the most part. Really been sticking to the lockdown. That is a loaded question I have witnessed personally. Both I have witnessed a number of people who have worn mass who have strictly kept their social distance. Who have been very good about only leaving when they absolutely need it. I've also seen people who go to the market just for a stick of butter I've seen and heard people in my hallways coming from a party. Who are you know a bit? Neabry aided So it definitely is a mixed like anywhere but you know what's interesting about that is you can really Get your answer from the numbers. So if we look at the police activity since the lockdown which was incredibly strict more than thirty five thousand people were fined and two hundred thirty five arrested on the weekend of May third when people were first allowed out so these are people who are maybe talking too closely going further from home than allow throwing parties though there is still some interplay between government and individuals and there are still some fines being administered. What's what are experts saying about why? Spain has been hit so hard compared to other countries in Europe. There's a mix of reasons though. Frankly we're learning new things about this virus every day but there is a large Grandfather Grandmother Elderly Population here. And in fact what makes Spain so wonderful. Is that families operate like a village. Grandparents are helping with the carrying of children picking them up from school which also puts them in a vulnerable position. Missed on how. The virus transmits. I mean as many doctors have said unfortunately children have become these vectors of contagion in this scenario so we see the older population of which there is a large amount disproportionately affected. You've mentioned that you have referred to what's happening right now to your son. You've called it. Mr and Mrs Corona virus are there and we need to not have them come in What other language are you using? And how are you thinking about talking to your six year old right now? I think the key thing to remember during this period and one thing that Co host Anna Cunningham and I really dedicate time to in our podcast is that kids are going to have a lot of questions right now and the key is just to listen to their questions. Listen to their approaches to everything and take the time even though credibly stressed out and overwhelmed. Even though if you're anything like me you've probably found yourself in a fetal position or sneaking chocolate too many times but but that this is the opportunity to have some of those very serious conversations because they hear hear everything you know the other day at Bedtime I think this was actually in April early April Win. The numbers were peaking here and every night we would hear sirens From our windows and mind you. We don't live near a hospital and our son was making the association and he actually said to his dad at Bedtime. I. I don't think I'm going to live old enough to decide if I WANNA have kids and whatnot. Yeah that was that was heavy and what that told me as he was. I mean he might have been testing it out the idea that he was internalizing the number of deaths there and I'm sorry he was internalizing the number of deaths here and what I realized is a parent when I was having conversations with my husband is that we're focusing so much on the death. Count the contagion rate. I'm sure he overheard. We could have been more careful about that. But we weren't focusing as much on those who were healing. We were focusing on the victories on the hero so we started to shift the conversation in the household because after all we are the gatekeepers of our household for our children. And so what we did is we mentioned a few friends who had been in the ICU. Friends that friends who knows and we started talking about how they have recovered. They're going. Some of them are going back to work there. Essential Workers Some of them are hugging their kids for two three days. Straight and that there are these moments of healing and there are these doctors working tyrus tirelessly to make things better to care for people and you know we could tell that he had really internalized that conversation. When the other day we were playing the game of life. Do you know the game of life. Oh sure closet you can be a winner at the game all right right. We were playing the game of life and he got to pick his profession and he chose doctor because he wants to help. People save people's lives win moment Yeah it's Nice I mean you you gotta take them where you can get these days. Let me ask you Linda. Do you think this experience of being at home and parenting in a pandemic is going to change the way that you parent moving forward It's a really good question It's interesting because I'm really operating day to day in survival mode so I haven't had that chance to take a step back and put things into context. I definitely think that I've become more appreciative of the lighter. Moments of the levity. Look at it is. We're raising the corona generation right. Our kids are glued to their screens. They're anxious they're scared. They're parents are anxious square and scared. They're also teaching US something. Pretty incredible defiant joy. They're teaching us how to find strength outta fine laughter in the darkest of times. I think I'll take that with me going forward that with every dark moment you can find some levity amid the challenges you can take a moment to laugh about the fact that you ask your conference call if they have to poop which happened to a friend of mine by the way but the fact is those lines are blurring now between everything in our lives right between the public and private life between the rich and the poor between the sick and the healthy. As those things blur. I think they're also is a blurring of struggle and joy and I think we can try to make out or carve out a place for ourselves as parents in both Linda. Freund is a multimedia journalist based in Barcelona and the Co host of the checkpoint a podcast about parenting in a pandemic Linda. Thank you for joining us. It was my pleasure back with you on the takeaway. I'm Shumita Basu. As businesses across the country slowly begin to reopen the live event industry is expected to be one of the last sectors to welcome the public back in but this week Missouri Governor. Mike Parson made his state the first to allow live events to resume as long as they comply with social distancing guidelines on Monday the same day. That the governor's decision went into effect. Missouri reported nearly four hundred new covert nineteen cases. That's the largest single-day increase for the state to date. Meanwhile mayors in Missouri's biggest cities Saint Louis and Kansas city or keeping their stay at home order in place until the middle of the month and music. Venue owners in those cities. Say It will likely be much longer until they can safely. Reopen Frost would be in Normandy which has three hundred people in the room. I can't even imagine when that's going to be possible. There's too many unknowns but I would expect the smart money would be maybe not this year. I'm Steve Palm. My wife kicked Kelsen. And I own off Broadway A in saint. Louis Missouri Steve's venue typically hosts Americana performers. They had their last show on March seventh and while off Broadway did receive a loan under the paycheck protection program. It's not enough especially since the business has generated no substantial revenue since it close to the public. Steve also says that if off Broadway were to reopen any time soon the venue couldn't stay profitable at a limited capacity and even if social distancing guidelines are eased soon in Missouri. He would still be in a bind. I guess I don't know what I'm going to do what we're going to do if were not comfortable with the level of safety. I think we're probably just not going to because it doesn't get us where we need to be with any sort of significant restrictions and if there are no restrictions then it certainly not safe in Columbia Missouri Cafe Berlin a restaurant and music venue is taking a similarly cautious approach to reopening their jobs. We need to open up the menu again at some point. But I think that it's really putting the The Carton of the Horse at this point. I'm Matthew Cook. I'm the talent buyer manager at Cafe Berlin and the executive director of Dismal Nitch Arts and the Columbia Experimental Music Festival cafe. Berlin's revenue comes from. Its restaurant and Matt says that starting live shows backup just won't make financial sense for the musicians. He typically books with the restrictions of limited capacity. I I don't think that it would be a profitable thing for anyone involved. And even if audiences were willing to return to shows many local musicians in the state wouldn't necessarily feel comfortable performing anytime soon the poll in Volpe's romantic spe in choosing my name's Molly Healey. I'm a violinist and cellist and guitar player also singer-songwriter out of Springfield Missouri. Right now. I would not feel comfortable going out and playing a show. It one of my favorite venues. You know to pack house just because if cases came out of that show it would be really hard to forgive myself for doing something like that and I think a lot of other musicians feel the same way like many musicians around the world molly has continued playing music through live streams. But the amount of money she's taking in bills performances is significantly lower than what she made before it just is not something that has brought in what. I used to make you know on a weekly basis or what I needed to make on a weekly basis to keep my house afloat and keep my daughter Fed and all that stuff. Molly has also found performing over. Live streams less creatively satisfying. It's better than nothing but you can't see the audience reaction or when you can't see those people dancing or smiling or whatever it is that you're wanting to elicit from that song it's just not the same that feeling was by another Missouri based musician. We spoke with a no. It's not the same as being in ruined with someone looking up reacting to them or hearing the different sound especially with the area. I spend a lot of time. Man Like experimental improvisation. There's a lot of dependency of keep bowl and the crowd reaction and making decisions of which direction ago in my name. Sanchez is from Saint. Louis performance the name eighteen encounter. Stan has been doing. Dj Sets and other musical performances over live streams for more than forty consecutive days now before Kovac nineteen about a third of stands. Income was coming from live shows and while today. He misses the energy of live audiences. He's also finding some positives to doing shows online. If I'm here in Saint Louis Plamondon shows doing my thing. You know the cities. Don't get to be there. They don't get the feel that so in this new livestream presence you kind of have a wider audience and in a way. It's more because people are listening to sound whether it's on their phone laptop their home stereo system whatever it is it's all personalized and having their own personal space now. Stan is more focused on keeping those virtual performances going then returning to in-person crowds. You know the transition back to live audiences is it's inevitable. I think but at this point I think it would have to. I would just have to be convinced that whatever. Venue is take precaution. And you know. And they're doing their half also I don't want to just die back in it just because the stay at home order. Save Them. Lifted be something a little more thoughtful a little more creative too not wanting to rush back into live. Performance was on the minds of everyone. We spoke with in Missouri Music Industry. My name is Charles Williams. I'm from Kansas City Missouri. I am the pianist for the Kansas City. Jazz Arkestra and I am a member of the Board for the American Jazz Museum. Eighteen the vying jazz district Kansas City Missouri. I'd have to know that there was a vaccine that you know if I had to wait a year. I WanNa feel comfortable knowing that. I don't want to go into a restaurant and play on the keyboard that is full John's because keyboard gathered germs. And then just be around a bunch of people that know what? They're you know what their status is mask or no mass. Charles lives off of a pension and had been using live gigs to supplement. His income recently lost a number of close friends to Kobe. Nineteen and he told us that his reluctance to return to live performing his tied directly to his own health related. To just go out here and play and take a risk. You lose in my life. I'm sixty four years old and don't have any bad health. Conditions do have high blood pressure. But I'm not trying to rush into something. That is very serious. I mean that's eight. I not jumping out there to make me be part of that number. You know what I'm saying. So for the time being Charles's finding comfort in just playing music at home. Good thing about it is. I can go sit down at my studio play. I got a couple of keyboards. Klay upstairs downstairs and my dad is therapeutic for me to play despite myself and you know. I'm Kristen. God pray and sometimes it's just played to God myself I said why haven't play to Lord I can play to you. You know to soon myself like say get online right and if I'm getting a lot of comments that they say thank you. This was great. You were blessing to me. That's like mission accomplished. If you'd like to share your thoughts about live music give us a call at eight. Seven seven eight might take and that's our show for today. Thank you so much for listening. Tomorrow it's politics with Amy Walter. I'm should meet the best. Sue In for Tenzin Vega. Thanks for being here. This is the takeaway. We'll see you next week.