The idea is to join up with the client to bond with them and to not get super close where you violate any boundaries. But at the same time you you want to get them excited hopefully about getting better that's why you're there and I always say my objective is the work myself out of the job. Really are you curious about discovering ways of making your life better than welcome to my podcast? I'm Bob Nick Mun, and this is the exploding human. Listen. In while I, talk with all kinds of people in the fields of personal growth health and Alternative therapies, psychology spirituality environment, and the future I'm looking for those answers to make life better for everyone, you'll meet cutting edge practitioners, doctors, artists, filmmakers, business people, and those who have overcome challenges. The brave curious anyone who was out there US humans to explore expand. And explode. I can with exploding human. I. Am Bob, Nick Mun and that gentleman you heard there at the beginning is Shannon Anderson and he's going to be talking to me today about his work as a sober companion and a certified intervention. Professional. So if you've ever wondered about those things, you're gonNA find out a lot today. And before we get into that, I want to invite you to visit my website, the exploding human dot com. T. H. G.. E. X. P. L. O. D. I N. G. H. M. A. N. Dot Com. Got All my. Interviews and photos of my guests. Little BIOS, little bio on myself. A donate button. If you want to support the show that would be awesome and police subscribe to my Youtube Channel which is the exploding human with Bob Nick Mun with Bob Nikkan on Youtube, and you can listen to the episodes also on Youtube. And I also want to. Mention that I have a A sponsor that I really am enjoying Promoting this product, it's the hero soap company H. E. R., O. SOAP HERO SOAP company. And DOT COM and they. Make, very healthy and. Refreshing soaps infused with incredible sense. The soap smell so good that you almost wanna eat it. That's how good it is and you feel great I I'm using the spirit right now and my friend Lucas over there is offered to give a discount if you type in at. Checkout exploding type in the word exploding and you'll get a discount. From hero soap company check them out. So my guess today's Shane Anderson Shane has spent about I think he's been doing this eleven years he's been a sober companion and he's also segue into intervention work. So, if you've ever really wondered what that day to day kind of living is like you know helping people to. Navigate to not just a drug and alcohol problems, but he does other other issues too and how he works with families and how we got started in this in helping other people. His whole entire life is really about service in helping people with addiction problems as well as mental health issues. It's all kind of mixed together. So check it out. This is Shane Anderson. We're going to talk about how you. How you got started with I being sober companion how you got into that Was it something that you had always wanted to do or did it kind of come come on nowhere or what? What? How did that happen because people? You know they get into stuff and I'm always surprised at how that happens. Yeah great question. How did I get my start You know it started I got sober two, thousand and four. So I've been in recovery since two, thousand four. And I was going to amends meeting in Santa Monica and there was a guy at that meeting his name was Tim really cool. Guy Just Love The Times that he shared just had a really great energy and I come to find out that he was a sober companion and that's what he did and I thought well, first of all, you probably know this but most people in La don't have jobs, they have gigs. And so. I. I was a Giger myself and still consider myself at some point to still be one but. you know I just thought. Wow, this is so companion he had some really cool stories doesn't seem like he works all the time, but he's jet setting off to different places in helping people and I thought wow I would really like to know more about this. So I pulled him aside one day and I said Tim I understand that you're sober companion I. think that might be something. I'd be really good at and he said, I think he would be too and he asked me how much time I had sober than I think about three years and he said to me that most people that would be in a position to hire you want you to have at least five years clean and. Sober thought. Okay and I just sort of put it in the back of my mind for a couple more years, and then right when I turned five five years sober I put it out there to a friend of mine. She told it to her friend named Kevin Really Great Guy and he got me my star. You got me my first job and I started I had A. Crazy. His first client was my first client was this backwards hit from Louisiana really liked to smoke a lot of crack. You know one time I went with them to pay off his crack dealer that was. Like an episode Ray Donovan Fortunately, both made it out alive but Allowed to do that. You know what I was thinking I was thinking if I don't go number one, he'll probably use, and then that'll be really difficult or he'll get hurt or both, and so maybe against my better judgment maybe I was just naive at the time was my first job I wanted to do well because I thought if I do this job well, then there's more work ahead for me and fortunately we we we came out of that but it was like like you would see in a movie it was a big white van down by this park was desolate guy got out. His name was tiny. Hiney and like I said we. Wit. The Hillbilly wit tiny is here the guy. The kind of guy turns around and says limited use you to my girlfriend and my cousin and there's just one girl standing there. So. Exactly. But was this in Louisiana or he knows in Louisiana. And that was my all I I jog my first foray and I think I was with him for. I want to say about. Two months and we just you know who some incredible stuff but you know the job is interesting because an anti fortunate. Now that I've been doing it for over a decade, I've been really fortunate in the sense that I've helped people get their star because somebody gave me my start. So I helped I don't know maybe eight nine people it started because they like me were curious. I was tell people. A couple of things about the job is is wanted it can be really great, but it also can be really difficult and you give up your life. Now. When you say you give up your life what what is what do you mean by that? I mean by that? Is You live in a suitcase? Because I could get a call at any time and they could say can you be in New York later today or could you fly to Switzerland tomorrow and you have to be able to say? Yes because. What I come to learn is that they're basically going down a list and if you not available, they'll move on to the next person and in my mind when I was new I've got much better at this but I was always thinking if I say no one too many times they'll stop asking me. Yeah I would be worried about that too. Just just like who's the most reliable person that I can I know they're gonNA say When I call but at the same time, you have to balance that with the you know your personal life. So I'm sure you do say no at this point sometimes you have. And when I was married with a family now but when I was single, it was a pretty good job because the money's descended, you're not spending any money but a couple of things I've learned over the course of the time I've done. This is number one when somebody asks if you're available available for job, they're not offering you a job. They're just asking if you're available because a lot of times, it doesn't happen even with the interventions now, and the other thing is, is that the only time I can almost guarantee I'll be offered work as when I'm on a job and I can't take it. Sure. Of course. Right. So, you when you're a sober companion, a lot of those people don't want to enter twelve step programs. Necessarily some might might not be familiar with it. Who is it mostly like I guess it's a variety of people. There's a lot of parents that want somebody to watch their their young kid who's you know maybe a teenager in their twenties or is it wealthy adults that need a babysitter for lack of a better word because it's not it? It sort of is that but it it's And do you ever have I'm guessing a bunch of questions at once you ever have people sort of try to sneak away and do stuff while you're with. Oh. Yeah. I mean yes. To all of that. It runs the gamut I mean I've worked with teenagers all the way up to people in their late seventies It just depends on on what the needs are and it I when I started and people said, it was like a glorified babysitter I guess I could see that but it's just so much more. You know I? Mean, obviously, you can't force anyone to do anything but I always like to say I'm just one less move for them. Try to be a good role model try to talk things out and you know so that's a sober companion, right? So there is companionship to it, but there's also the sober part and I've had men I've worked with were interested in being sober quite frankly I didn't stick around because while this is how I make my livelihood it's never been just about a paycheck for me so I've had to say to people and left. A lot of money on the table. So to speak that look I'm not gonNA stick around if you're not interested in working towards something I'll go help somebody that is and I've left. Good for you, that's never an easy conversation but I just WANNA feel useful and I. Feel. Bad. Just cashing a check just to watch somebody snort coke and then pretend i. didn't see it. Now, I have a another. Associate of friend who? Also does sober companionship and he was He was. Flown out to another state he had met a guy that was here in a in a treatment facility and they hired he hired him to come to his home. So he moved into this guy's home and not only did he deal with the guy but he was a married man with children. Teenage children. So he was now. placed. In the middle of a family dynamic in the the people in the family were like, who is this guy? Is there a little suspicious? Those situations must be very Tenuous because now you're placed in the middle of somebody else's family. I'm sure you've had some of that that kind of stuff where we're the family members are like they don't want they don't maybe they don't even want the dynamic to change because it. So familiar yeah that's a good point and. I we say that working with the families is sometimes harder than working with the individual because they have expectations like you said, they they one of the safe you know sick if you will. So they can have control or power over them. Fortunately I would say the majority of the time I'm working for a case manager therapist or doctor. So there's a buffer in between Nell deal with the family I. Mean I have against my better judgment a handful of times work just for the client themselves to deal with anyone else and that that has its advantages because I don't have to report into anyone but the disadvantages that say. Are Calling the shots right because they're the ones that are employing directly. So you don't have that offering between eight. So you know the families I try to. Be, respectful of the confidentiality of the client I don't want to overstep but at the same time when you're that close to them, like you said like living with the wife because I I have had that not a lot. It's usually the person has been either on their way to treatment or coming home from treatment or I've been on a on a TV set or a film or. Know just again, sort of runs, the gamut, the ideas to join up with the client to bond with them, and to knock get super close where you violate any boundaries. But at the same time you you want to get them excited hopefully about getting better that's why you're there and I always say abject it as the work myself out of job. Really. Being around for a while I, understand that there's different ways to to recover. So I try not to push anything on anyone I. Just say listen you know here's a better way to do it. Let's. Use Me as a as a coach, you can bounce things off me and you know I try to. Be someone there that they could talk to. oftentimes they're used to being coddled or there's a lot of expectations lot of narcissism. So you know I try to be firm, but at the same time easy guy to be around and I think that's why I've been able to stay busy for as long as I have. I would assume that there's been situations where people have really Told you things. Maybe they haven't told anyone in their whole life used to have a card and on my card, it said my name and then it said my phone number and then it on the lower left it said active listener and on the lower right it's confidence holder. And I used to give that card out to people not not really for work but just people that I would meet that. I thought maybe needed to have somebody in their corner. There are certain people I've run into over the years that have this I don't know what it is. They have a qua-, a quality where people tell them stuff. They don't tell other people they just opened up to to them at you seem like you would be one of those people happen to my whole life into my whole life. Yeah. I'm sure prior to even doing this worke you just seem like somebody that you could say stuff to and it would be okay. Yeah. I remember when I was in high school like Highschool College, my friends this is a total one eighty. But they would you know they would be talking about their stories with the girls and triumphs they'd had with girls and stuff like that, and they would always ask me and I wouldn't want to talk about it and we just kind of keep it to myself. I would listen to their stories. But when it came time for me to divulge stuff I just sort of kept to myself I don't know why I thought of that now but it's the same thing you know this job you're only as good as how Confidential you can remain with clients you're working with very high profile people and almost every occasion I I have to sign what's known as an NDA in nondisclosure agreement. Because you can be sued and then my reputation is really all I, have in this in this field and it could be over like they say it takes a long time to build up and it just takes a second tear down. So I have to be mindful of facts. Yeah, a friend of mine used to say, it only takes a second to fuck up the Mona Lisa with a can of spray paint. Earth. Yeah. So you do mostly Celebrity type clients and or or is it a whole gamut of? Would say mostly, but I have had quite a few people in front of the camera behind the camera I think mostly because where we live, you know based in Los Angeles but I do were quite a bit in new. York. But. You know anyone that really has the resources. It doesn't come cheap I. Say you give up your life because you aren't able to. Do the things that you normally would do and like I said, I have a family now. So if I'M GONNA leave for a period of time, it has to be something that is worth not just financially, but has to be a good opportunity So it's it's not just celebrities. But it is people that have the resources to be able to to afford it. So. Insurance does cover any knows and cover insurance. You know treatment is covered by insurance depending on where you go but this is a private pay. situation you know. So I don't think that we're overpaid to be quite honest with you. Because again, you're with somebody twenty, four seven. So that means if you're staying with somebody and in the morning, they wake you up and talk to you because they can't sleep. Guess what you're up you're up with them as long as it takes. Yeah. So that was that was going to be my next question. How much of the twenty four hours a day? Are you actually with them? Are you sleeping in the next room and you're living with them and spent oars do some people say well, you know I'm I'm working all day at the office take the afternoon off and I'll see it five. I've had both of those happened I had worked for a big music manager and he he would go to his office. He would sometimes take me to work and put me in another office just be like I'll see you at the end of the day. had some people you know put me up in the guesthouse of stayed in hotels within different room. Sometimes, it's better than joining room. So it really just depends on the level of support that they need. Some people just want you in the background. They don't want anyone to know who you are. I've I've taken people from treatment to go back east because their daughter was in Vienna play and the Treatment Centre wouldn't let them go unless he took companion with them. So I've done that. So you've seen a lot of stuff I'm GonNa Sneeze here in a second. Should I leave it on the recording maybe I will hold on. Those impressive. Wow, thanks for covering up to feel like it didn't even hit me. I'm just protecting my screen. You have a mask over your camera. Do, you need a license to be a sober companion I? Don't think you do I think you just have to have some experience. There's no no licensor. There are people that will give your certificate and train you. There's some REPUTA- ones out there reputable but you know there's no oversight so to speak and. Like I said most I I don't know anyone that's ever been a companion not recovery that would be really really bizarre but. You know it's people that again have really good instincts don't rattle easily that work well with others and just can really think on their feet, but there's no formal. Training that I know of anyway I think it could be coming. I know a couple of people that are basically you know at retirement age and they've been doing other things but there they've been clean and sober for. Twenty thirty plus years, and they want to segue into a massive recovery and still making a living in that world. rather than with their old job was I would somebody go about doing that well. I think you just an actions probably would be party. I take. So I think it's kind of what I did I. Think you just start putting out there and I've had people that are. In their sixty S. Maybe a little bit older that wanted to get into it and there's You know it's kind of like a casting director. There's you just have to find the right fit. You know as somebody that's in their twenties may not relate to somebody that's in their fifties or sixties but somebody in their sixties may want someone closer to age but you know you depending on the job you have to also. Able to to move around because what if you're in your sixties and you're not fit but you're a great guy and this person their thirties like stood jock and they want you to jog with. Weight up. Right exactly. We put the cigarette out so. Then me I'm I'm in decent shape, and if somebody wanted I'm not a runner I work out but I'm not a runner if somebody wanted to. I wouldn't be able to take that job. I'd have to refer to a guy know who's who's a great runner and say, this is the guy for you. So you know Bob Okay. So there's lifestyle considerations for each Kleiner percent and those questions get asked up front I would imagine these case managers they have a stable again, it's very analogous to a casting director, right? So they have a stable male and female. Companions, they try to keep men with the men and women with the women and they say, okay now we have a thirty two year old person that's coming off opiates. That is super fit lenses do cross fit or whatever, and they want someone that's GonNa stay with them for six weeks, and this is what their day to day is GonNa look like. So now we have to find someone that that fits that. Yeah, that's funny. I I'm on this. List for this advertising company in they sent me an email yesterday. One of those things of are you available and can you do this and the thing they wanted was somebody to be able to translate copy into French and German. You're the guy. I'm like I write back nine. What are you seeing? In. The types of a drugs that people are addicted to a change alcohol's sorta that constant I would imagine just because it's so easy to get. But if you seen a shift in the with how long have been doing this about fifteen years a little about eleven now. Eleven years. So when you started was there more of a certain type of drug that's now sort of shifted to are seeing prevalence of other types of addiction is growing and I'm sure it fluctuates but is there anything new on the on the horizon that's going on I'll tell you the biggest thing that I've noticed and this is true for a believe sober companion recovery coach interventions. We're starting to see more and more mental health, right? So be before it was. With some mental health, and now the cases are mental health with a little addiction and I think some of that is most parents don't like to think of their kids as Dr that drug addicts to Caesar for them to think of all they're just depressed or they have anxiety or their you know the pandemic, but you won't be dig a little deeper. We find out there smoking pot every day and they're taking their snorting adderall and they are stealing moms, Zanex and things like that. So. that would probably be the biggest thing you know opiates seem to be hanging on because marijuana's legal now in California, there's a lot of. Marijuana. That's has. High Potency. The strains are much higher than they were in the in the past so. I guess that's the thing. I've noticed the most recently as the mental health. as more of a primary diagnosis with the addiction call. Now, they call it substance use disorder in the past it was just drug addiction or something else and they call it alcohol use disorder who you're talking about the the cannabis, the being legal and how strong it is. I would think that would lead to a lot of mental disorders because that stuff is you know from what I'm hearing I mean I haven't. tried. Weed and. Thirty five years even the stuff that was the strongest. I couldn't handle it back then and it's an even stronger now I can't imagine. You know what goes on with people I was reading about somebody was telling me about they were calling it psychosis basically that the people are smoking. So much of this high powered a THC. Can expel the THC as fast as they're taking it in. So they have a psychotic break in their in in their in mental facilities from. We'd yet. It's true. It's. It's the wild west out there in that sense and they're they're closely aligned in people. You find out you talk to a parent or loved one in they're like what's going on? Well, they can't get out of bed. They're depressed all day where we're what are they doing? Oh, they're smoking weed and then playing video games or they're on their phone and they are ball night and they sleep all day. So you have what's called a Co occurring addition episode Rather Co occurring diagnosis or dual diagnosis it say and you have to be able to find a facility that treats both. Used to be cannabis not considered you know an addictive substance, but I know people in my life that have had big problems with it where they could not function in in life just with that, you know this supposedly habit for. It's true. It's true and you asked earlier about what would've would've I've seen I've I've had a few clients, their primaries gambling. They couldn't stop gambling and their parents have recovered. You know these are younger. Men In their twenties and that they had to go have their parents, bail them out, and so you know whether it's failure to launch or they call it arrested development. These kids have been able to be self sufficient. They really need some help. So I have to go in and do my due diligence and find out about meetings that work with gambling and you know fortunately when you've been around a while, you have met some really good people as you can use them as resources. So that's always been really helpful. Oh. So you don't just deal with drugs and alcohol. So doing gambling and. Anything else blaming. Disorders they call it. So could be anything from disordered eating. Somebody has an eating disorder. Somebody has a gambling issue. Somebody has video games. That's a big one, these days or screen screen addiction they call it. So it really it really never just one thing about that. Never here's just one thing because you it's it's Sorta like whack a mole you know you push one down another thing comes up because the the underlying thing is I don't WanNa feel the way I feel without something to alter my perception and the idea is that were you know this is life work right? We're. We're we're not just coming in and just fixing one thing. We're giving them some tools to be able to go back to the world real world and when things happen and they get triggered or their stressors to get back to their own environments, it can take and build on the momentum and learn how to deal with life rather than just trying to numb out with a substance you get a lot of these people to direct it into different types of therapy besides twelve step to cause some obviously some of these people are going to need that it sounds like, yeah, I think. The idea would be thinking about interventions now when we do an intervention. Really want to find a treatment center that is appropriate for them geographically works within their budget and you know I always say the real recovery begins once you lied. So. To make sure that there's an aftercare program that set up working with the treatment center and then. You know some people will go into sober living for a while or some people will definitely get therapy but you know to make sure that once they discharge or leave a treatment center that there's a plan in place so they just don't go right back. To where they were before we had some a young lady that was today as a matter of fact, she's leaving treatment and last night we were on the phone with her family just going over the plan for when she gets home, she was in a relationship that's fraught with Some emotional upheaval so there's two kids involved and you know what's going to happen when it will happen. You know another argument soons what are you? What are you GonNa do so we went over that just to make sure that everybody was on the same page. Now with intervention you're going in, you can do a lot online I would assume with setting. Up a family kind of stuff and Oh, how the how the intervention's going to go. Then the intervention itself is what a couple of days I mean. It's probably one day that it actually happens but navy the flying there and the preparation and all that how you me like I know there's no such thing as a typical one, but maybe you can give. You know how the a scenario that might. Give our listeners and idea what what you do as an interventionist. The way it works is there's you know inquiry where someone will call and say I needed intervention for a loved one and talk to them for maybe thirty minutes to just get some background and make sure that I'm the right person for them, and then the next phase would be the assessment. Really Finding out as much as I can about the individual and then I start interviewing and I think that's one of the things I love most about. This job is that I will start to assemble an intervention team a family intervention team. So is it mom and dad involved if the IT's a young? child you know eighteen and above maybe sometimes a little bit younger I've had younger as well. who else is going to be a part of that intervention team. I'm oftentimes looking for an outlier is there a coach or distant relatives or? They haven't seen is there. A grandparent that's passed away that maybe we can somehow bring them into the intervention and What I'll do is I'll start to interview them and learn as much as I can about the individual and I wanna know things like what makes them special You, know what what tell me about a special memory that the two of you had together and all right all this stuff down. I'll take copious notes and then I'll ask them. What's your biggest fear? Sometimes, it's that they'll die sometimes they won't realize their potential sometimes it's at bill just completely circle the drain for the rest of their life. And then I'll say what? Would you greatest hope and most of the time they'll say that they get better and get my son back my daughter back. So once I've done the due diligence usually spend about fifty hours. So it's quite involved talking to people and acting as almost like a concierge fashion with them. So they can reach out at any time. Then once I have all that information and once I've done a what's known as a family map, put a genome together in a family map and start to understand sort of the family tree, and if they're addiction in the family, if there's a history of suicide, there's a criminal record mental health trying to really understand as much as I can about the individual do as much research. Then the next phase would be to set a date and time I give them the family. At least three options of treatment centers. Really, tried to do as much research as I can and say. First of all, I have no fiduciary relationship with any treatment centers. I. Just say this is a place where I would send a loved one and I just give them the contact in the website they look at it they find a place they think's appropriate. then. We set the pre intervention meeting, which I will go I just did one recently in. Illinois. I did another one in Colorado just flew to Switzerland took somebody deserve can just came back. So I'm sort of all over the place. But what we'll do is we'll have a pre intervention meeting and the other thing I'll do it for the. Pre intervention meaning is I'll ask the individuals involved to write letters write and these letters are for the people that will be there but they'll also be for the people that can't be there let's say somebody's far away they can't be there but they want to write a letter. So I say these letters should be like love letters, letters of encouragement. The Way I was trained was to be as a motivational and his positive as possible to come from a place of love now blaming no shaming no finger-pointing a we love you. We care about you. Alia. We have a family problem. We need to find a solution. So this is what it's all about. It's not about you know you're a bad person misses about pace. We have to find some help here and we're. Going to do this for you, and so it's not thought of as a consequence but more as a gift set the the pre intervention meeting. We we all go around. Everybody's really comfortable about what the next day is. GonNa look like and you know there's different interventions you may or may not know this but there's something called Johnson model, which is a surprise. You don't let the person know that you're going to be there. that's not my preferred one because such go wrong but you try to work out all the object but the one that I feel most comfortable on doing is called invitational We call invitation to change where basically say to them hey, we're having a family meeting. We'd like to be there or going to habit regardless we'd like to talk to you and not about you and most of the time they show up and then we all sit around it's very choreographed even though it doesn't look like it and people just. You need three things the short-term goals, you need three things to really get the wheels on the track. So to speak you need them to be available obviously you want them to be available we want them to sit and listen, and then you want to present the solution to them and you just do it in a way that hopefully it will crack their Harbin little bit. You try to cut off the. Head in the sense that it's not an intellectual thing. You just I mean I've seen people the most hardened people in the room completely breakdown because there's so much love and they're such power in the group. Now made they may have heard these things one on one so many different times. But when they see people assembled and they see people sometimes they didn't expect and I just had one recently in Colorado where. It was kind of inspired after think that it didn't come solely from me but I had some divine intervention the the woman involved was think she was forty two and she had a history of drug addiction and she had some trauma in her life. And she was coming over to the intervention locate action, and there was a chair there that belong to her grandmother who passed away the year before and she was super close grandmother. So I had the chair that her grandmother sat on involved in the circle and it just represented her grammar there when she saw that she started crying she broke down and she she was on a plane with their later that day took her treatment. So so that's basically the stages and then afterwards there's I stay engaged with the family for a period of time Ucla like sixty days just depending happens. These letters are powerful tools because they take these letters with them to treatment and they can read them and if. For any reason, they decide they're getting too well to quickly the counselors there will also have a copy of the letters and then they can be a very effective tool and keeping them there as long as they're supposed to be there. Yeah. A little reminder of why you're absolutely because they may say you know it wasn't that bad and they're like. Oh. Really. Well, let's just sit over here and go through these letters again and then they oh, that time that you rolled the and the your children had to be cut out of your car which happened on the way that's not something I just made up years ago I was working when I was doing stand up I was working at this. Place it was like as a hotel head of had a little nightclub in it, and I was talking to one of the women that work there I. Guess She was a bartender wait staff or something and. I had told her I wasn't drinking. She goes oh I, don't i. don't drink anymore either she goes I had a really weird a terrible thing happened because i. I came home drunk one night and I rammed my car through the living. Room. Window of my house. And I missed my kids by foot. And, I said I can never in that stop that got her to stop I don't know I never saw rem but that was a terrifying story. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I. Wish I could say I didn't hear stories like that but unfortunately I mean that's really hard for me since becoming a father recently anything with child endangerment it's just hard and you know it's also I'm finding interesting and I don't know. Really how to. How to deal with this completely but? I've been finding myself recently getting caught up in the emotion you know your people are pouring their hearts out. In the room and the reading, sometimes a letter and they just start to to cry and you see these people like big guys breakdown and I've caught myself two or three times getting super teary eyed, and I think if I had to speak in that moment, I would be emotional and I have to get better at I mean human after. All right. But I have to get better at you know you don't want your doctor crying he's about to cut you open for surgery. So there's people looking at me to to be some strengthen the room. So that's something that's on currently working on because it's just it's so emotional and there's so much at stake for these people. And I don't don't see anything wrong with tearing up in a situation like that I think people go. This guy actually cares now, if you were blubbering on the floor I can't take that would be bad. It hasn't happened yet but but inside I feel that way sometimes do become an interventionist that does require a certain type of training license. Correct. Well, you can do it without it and I've been doing you know unofficial interventions for quite a while I. Mean we do interventions all the time. There's all different kinds but to become what's called CIP, which stands first certified intervention professional. you know it's it's it's quite involved. You know it's it's hundreds of hours of supervision. It's taking classes it's getting insurance. It's having recommendations You know it's going you you you have to speak to the. So. It's quite fun involved but it does give you some credibility and some licensor and It was a big deal to get him fortunate out some good people behind. So you do have that Yeah. So I have what's called a CIP which is. Certified Intervention Professional I'm fortunate enough to you know work with some great people a trained with somebody called Doctor Louise Stinger at all about interventions, and she's a licensed social worker, and she's an educator and an author. So I work quite a bit with her and Ed's story out of San. Pedro he's He's my first mentor. I call them the Mister. Rogers. Recovery is just probably the nicest guy I've ever met is motto is when Endow e kind and he's done over thirty five hundred interventions and spend in the business for like forty years. So you know I I like to work with those two people and again because I'm doing and doing this such a long time name is out there. So you know it is enough business fortunately or unfortunately for everyone is the world's and such a precarious place right now and people are hurting in isolating. So I stay busy. It's a great thing. You're doing I mean to be able to You know have a a nice income with something that means something. I think that's the goal of most people they would love to do. Something they're passionate about you're doing that, which is fantastic. Yeah. I'm really fortunate in I I. Read this book some years ago called the one thing and it was all about you know. I guess the way I used to think was I'll just spin as many places as possible. I'll just multitask and do whatever it can hopefully something will stick and you know this book was basically saying that that's thing not to do multitasking isn't great. Find out one thing that you're most passionate about and everything else will line up and I I. Spent about two seconds thinking about and I realized at one thing for me is being of service and so this job as a way to be of service and and from that, I've been able to support myself, make living, raise a family and help people the same time. So I can't really think about anything better and I'll keep doing it for as long as it's available to me. And I think that's important. You know finding or having it find you. you know tapping into that Intuition. Of what what actually speaks to you in a way like if there was no. This is not new ideas. But if there was if there was no if money wasn't a concern and time or any, if nothing was a concern, what would you do with? What would you do? And whatever that thing is. Do it, and then see what happens I i. You know I interviewed a guy yesterday who's in in the world of vitamins and you know health products and things that he didn't start out to do that he he started to Heal himself because he was overweight and yet eggs among all these different issues and he went to a to this place and they kind of showed them how to eat and and be healthy, and he changed that and from there it just very slowly. Healing himself he went. This is my calling I'm GonNa have to this is what I have to do. and. It's you know and I run into a lot of people like that in this podcast where they just. Have some sort of a horrible series of events that has guided them to to their life's work well I. think that's very true in for me just it feels like. Complete alignment and it it's. It's like I have a responsibility in some way to give back to this this world of recovery because it's Given me so much. It's given me a relationship. It's given me employment and it's giving me they say life beyond your wildest dreams. Well, it's given me a life and I've had a Lotta trauma personally in my life and some loss. So you know if I can be a small part of saving someone's life literally and figuratively than I can't really think of anything better. Let's talk about trauma. because. I really think that's The second biggest piece or an equal he's to to genetic and family history. But of of addiction. I think there's a genetic component of course because you see it in families over and over again for generations. And but. I think trauma is probably a pretty big factor in turning to substance abuse to alleviate Symptoms, and feelings, and whatever happens and Let's talk about the that does that come that must obviously come up a lot in these interventions where there's been some major or you know varying traumas all the time all the time and it it takes a lot of digging. People don't WanNa talk about it. It's a sensitive issue could be incested could be raped it could be You know abuse neglect a lot of people. Don't necessarily put neglect armband admit together So yeah, it is and. You know you probably know this that the last thing we do is pick up or to use the stuff happens before and then we need some way to deal with it. We have no coping mechanism. So we don't WanNa feel we want an amount. So the idea is to get them into a place where they can really take a time out and work on that trauma and have some some good therapy whether. It's em Dr, or you know there's all these new modalities right now people don't necessarily talk about that because it's just so uncomfortable I e amd ears pretty interesting I do have one episode about that. If people WANNA, check it out. It's a del Barber I forget what episode number it is but check that out and That's an interesting technique I. Guess I think it kind of started a lot with soldiers. RETURNING SOLDIERS PTSD they do a lot a lot with that. You know it's Doesn't doesn't eliminate what happened, but it mitigates the effects of it to where you can live with these things that have that have happened in make your life a comfortable. Again, you can never make it go away but you can turn the noise down. And I've I've done it myself as a result of listening to that episode quite frankly that's how I got into. Did. Some good. Here, you go, you'll get your reward in heaven. Yeah exactly. Well, I'm getting it right now. Right this second I'm getting it was. It was incredible and it's been. You know because then I can speak to these things when I'm talking to people and I can, and that's also I think what really makes me affect? My job is I. I know how to think like an addict I'm you know I'm not? You know you're not. You're going to go take an aerobics class from somebody that's really overweight. You can't. There's a little bit of a disconnect there may be. But when I sit across from someone and I talk about those feelings of inadequacy or less than or you know loving. Cocaine I I get all that and I can relate to them like other people can't. So it really makes me good at my job seeing a direction where this is headed either in terms of the amount of availability, the lack of a stigma that's attached to this now and forms of treatment that are on the are forms of treatment that are coming up. Well, I don't think it's going anywhere. It's been around a lot longer than I've been doing it and I don't see it ending anytime soon because people hurting and I I've been saying recently that I'm telling people there's no better time to go to treatment I mean the world essentially on pause right now people are working they are working from home. So go to treatment work on yourself get better I just had the. Unbelievable opportunity to take somebody from L. A. to Zurich to go to. A place of their that's world renowned incredibly A. Unique in its. To treatment modalities, they're able to do things over there that can't be done in the states because we have regulations here cutting edge things that restored the neural pathways in the brain that have been damaged due to repeated usage of opiates and things like that. Wo- I want to hear about that. So I got to fly over there with an individual and I got to stay for some days and I got to go through the Institute of Kushner Art Institute in Zurich and I got to meet the clinicians they're and have one of the treatments and. It's just like no place in the world. Do you restore neural pathways? They have something called bio molecular restoration and I didn't have that one done. I. Think I probably could have if I would have been there longer, but I did have an oxygen therapy that works on the might oke. Andrea those are the cells inside that tend to age quickly, and so this helps rejuvenate that I mean you'd have to look at the website and just look at all the things that they offer but there's a reason why people that can afford to go to Switzerland for a medical needs because they have the best minds and the best people in the entire world there. Wow that sounds awesome I want to get some treatments just to try them. It's unbelievable. So is it about the cost of a motel six? It's about a chain of motel six. Seven eight nine ten, whatever it takes. Must Be, yeah. Boy Man I must be amazing. It's IT'S A lot. It's it's for the one percent and I think a big clientele. That they get from the middle. East. But you know if you can afford it I mean I told this guy that. That was on the fence about going who has a lot of money in would be considered rich and famous I said to him. I said you. You can't spend the money when you're dead. and. I think he heard that and you know people seem to think this is his last chance. Addiction is a disease that doesn't care. Who it affects it's kind of like in here's obviously this person you're describing somebody that has what most people would consider everything. Everything. And yet. There's this this. Thing that's you know undermining. Happiness joy contentment health. Relationships it's undermining everything a personal with everything that one thing is undermining all it's it's the trauma. It's what you talked about earlier. It's the trauma that was never resolved. I'm not a clinician but I, I know this person well enough to know that it's never fully been dealt with. So this is the kind of person that has the life that people would stand in line forever for and. Don't doesn't really have the opportunity to to enjoy it. So I think with all my heart that this place if anything would be the place that could really get them on track to. getting better and to just WANNA wake up in the morning and being cited about. Sometimes. I wonder if. Somebody head a certain type of trauma. Is Trying to heal that trauma by achievement that's an success and money and power like that is GonNa fix this thing and I think there may be quite a few people that are have arrived at that point that you were talking about with whoever this person is that that's was that was the underlying drive to heal, but it was just a misguided way to do it because to look at the real thing is. Too painful I think you're right on the money Bob and and you know this guy is someone I've known for a while and I was his companion for a year and a half million, a year and a half with one person and who said to me, who's basically been to the mountaintop and look down who turned him at one point said, it doesn't do it. It just doesn't do it. You think it's GonNa it but but it doesn't and so what happens you know you keep moving the goalposts keep moving, keep moving it, and it's as we say, it's an inside job. If you don't fix what's inside, it doesn't matter what's on the outside it's just to line up. while. We done. We're just getting started. What else you want to? Really. Grateful for the opportunity I could talk about it forever but. You know and again, the last thing I would say is that. I understand that people listening to this may think oh that's great. This guy works with people that are incredibly wealthy but the truth of the matter is that anybody that called me that needed help I would I would try to find a way to help them regardless if they had two pennies or two billion and doesn't matter there's their stuff out there when I when I tried to get sober I didn't know that there were places that would take you for little. or no money as far as relapse go. So I I didn't go because I couldn't afford it. But now that I've been around for a while I, know that there are places like clarify foundation or some other places that as long as you have a desire to get sober house of Hope For Women in San Pedro same thing any woman that has desire to get sober will never be turned away due to lack resources so I just want people to know that. There's help and the La have to do is ask and I think for a lot of people hardest thing they can say is I need help but that's true. I mean if you if there's people out there that that want some kind of a help, you can get it. You've got nothing there are in every city across the country there are opportunities to get help. So. So do folks do that if you need the help so it's out there. It's just a matter of you know. Making the phone call and saying those words I need help and helps on the way. Thank you so much Shane. A Bob it's it's it's my pleasure. Thank you for taking an interest. Absolutely have a great one too. Big. Thanks for listening into the exploding human to all you exploding humor's. Big. Thanks to Shane Anderson for a great little talk. Thank you Shane and keep up the great work. Folks if you WANNA, check out my website, it's the exploding human dot com lots of stuff there to listen to and look at it and read. Also, please subscribe to the Youtube Channel The exploding human with Bob Nick Mun. Check that out you can listen on Youtube. Also go to hero soap company, DOT COM hero soap they make very healthy soaps infused with essential oils. I highly recommend them. I do use this product I like it a lot. and. If you type in the word exploding at checkout, you'll get a discount much appreciation for your listening to the exploding human. And have a wonderful day. Thank you.

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