Stone trial opens new window on Trump's awareness of Russian help

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The show we had nine stern on. MSNBC thanks for joining us this hour. Happy Wednesday since Donald Trump was elected president in November of two thousand sixteen ecksteen. There have been ten state legislative houses while they're state senates. Our state houses that have flipped in terms of which party controls them. The first one was in Washington state the Senate. They're flipped from Republican controlled the Democratic Control. Then all on one night election night two thousand eighteen a Colorado Senate flipped the main Senate flipped. Minnesota House flipped. The New Hampshire House. Flipped the New Hampshire Senate flipped the Connecticut Senate the Connecticut Senate flipped and the New York Senate all flipped and all of them flipped from Republican control to Democratic Control. And then last night the first call we got from the Associated Press Nine twenty nine eastern time. Was that the Virginia Senate would also flip also from Republican control to Democratic Control. And then after after I got off the air for the first iteration of our show last night The made the call not just for the Virginia Senate but for the Virginia House as well and so what that means means is since Donald Trump has been president in all in eight different states the house or the Senate in the state legislature ten state eight legislative houses overall how flipped party control since trump isn't president and every single one of them has flipped from Republican control to Democratic Mechanic Control and that result last night with the whole Virginia legislature both the House and the Senate flipping from Republican control to Democrat control. All while Democrats also control the governorship in the state of Virginia. Nash is going to have a huge impact in terms of policy and priorities. In the the state of Virginia. You're now going to have democratic controlled government in the state of Virginia after the courts repeatedly struck down electoral maps that the Republicans had drawn on in Virginia when they had control of the legislature after courts repeatedly struck down those Republican drawn maps for being discriminatory at one level or another. What happened last night in Virginia with Democrats taking both Houses of the legislature? It also means that Republicans aren't going to have another shot at trying to rig the electoral maps in their state to ensure that Republicans win even when they get far fewer votes. So Virginia is going to be a big big change. Change in terms of policy and in terms of House districts and in terms of future legislative district that result last night in Virginia was a big deal. A big hairy consequential deal and it was a surprise we were also up late last night. Watching the returns role in in the Kentucky Governor's race were. NBC News Fairly early last evening declared the Democrat in the race. Andy Bashir would be the apparent winner over incumbent. Republican Governor Matt Bevin now as of today as of right now Matt Bevin is still not conceding seating that race. He's demanding that all the votes be re canvassed which is not exactly the same thing as a recount it basically just means they tally the votes again. Nobody's nobody's quite sure if Bevan is going to ultimately demand a recount. And if that's GonNa Happen Nobody's quite sure how can work out in Kentucky. There's a few weird off-ramps they could take through the state legislature or state government and Kentucky. If they want to try to do that but if Bevan insists on not conceding. It's it's uncertain as to how this proceeds with all precincts reporting it. Looks like Andy Bashir. Beat Matt Bevin by more than five thousand votes. You can see the vote. Total little difference at the bottom of your screen there but Bevan's saying he won't step down. He won't concede that he's been beaten and so we shall see. There was another governor's race last night as well which which is in the Great State of Mississippi Republicans are able to celebrate if nothing else from last night. They're able to celebrate the fact that they were able to hold onto the governorship in in Mississippi. Last night it should be noted for context that Mississippi is a state that Donald Trump won by twenty eight points last night. The Republican candidate for governor who president trump campaign for in person. Right up to election day. He was only able to pull off a single digit five point. Victory Victory in that state where trump had just romped to victory not long before so last night's off year elections Are Exciting to Democrats. Even a deep red state like Mississippi where they didn't quite pull it off in terms of the top race in the state. Last night's election results are in energizing rising to Democrats for obvious for obvious reasons and for converse reasons. The same results. I'm sure made today feel pretty overcast. Pretty cloudy from the point of view. Say The Republican Party broadly the Republican controlled Whitehouse looking ahead to two thousand twenty specifically the West Wing in that White House where there sits Republican president. Donald trump staring down the start of his reelection campaign and his simultaneous impeachment in Washington. Today they was just a remarkable day on that front. You will recall that one of president. Trump's personal lawyers Michael Cohen. His longtime personal lawyer is already serving time. I am in federal prison as we speak. I remember the day when we first reported that. Mr Cohen had retained his own lawyer. The president's lawyer had to get a criminal defense lawyer or for himself that seemed like a bad sign at the time. Indeed it turned out to be about science since Michael Cohen is now in prison. I don't know what you'd have to call it though when you have to report that same the thing for a second time but tonight we can report that the president's new personal lawyer the one who isn't in prison tonight He too has had to hire his own criminal defense lawyer. That was the news that we got today about the president's current personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani and Juliana has hired his own criminal defense lawyer now and of all the lawyers in the world that Rudy Giuliani could have hired turns out. Sure why not what he hired. The Guy who had been Michael Collins Criminal Defense lawyer back in the day despite the fact that that worked out with Michael Cohen ultimately going to prison. It's like there's only ten of these guys in the world right like really. You're Michael. Cohen is the president's personal. or He's Jill. You're hiring his lawyer. First of all you both both had to get criminal defense lawyers. You both decided to get the same one. It's like literally there's only kind of these guys and they're all joint defense agreements and they're all like in each other's indictments admits. Hey person one individual one right. Maybe someday they'll open a wing for them in the federal prison system. The commissary will all be like trump themed Chomsky's the red baseball hats. I'll trade you Rahman for an extra long tie as the president's personal lawyer yet. Another one one of them had to get his own criminal defense lawyer today. We also got big impeachment proceedings in a big developments in the impeachment proceedings against the president on Capitol Hill. First of all a senior. Your State Department witness showed up to testify today. That's notable because the White House and the State Department. I've told everybody that they can't testify. They're not allowed to testify to the impeachment impeachment committees so every time currently serving administration official does show up anyway in defiance of those instructions sort of changes the dynamic a little a bit in terms of those instructions in terms of how everybody else in the administration is going to treat their subpoenas and whether or not that White House instruction they shouldn't testify is seen as binding or more binding than a lawful. A congressional subpoena. The witness who surprise did show up and testify today for more than six Ours is David Hale. The number three official at the US State Department unlike some other officials who testified that the impeachment committees. We didn't receive a prepared opening statement. Mr Hale's remarks so at least compared to other witnesses at this point we don't know much about what he said. We do however vert as of today no quite a bit about the recent and explosive testimony from another senior State Department official ambassador. Bill Taylor He. He was the first witness to lay out in clear. Detail how this whole scheme worked with president and Rudy Giuliani were demanding investigations to be announced by Ukraine investigations. That could help trump and his reelection effort and in order to try to pressure Ukraine into handing those investigations over to announcing those investigations. The core elements of American foreign policy toward that country. Were put on the line. Things like White House meeting for their new president even military assistance. That had been ordered by law by Congress. Bill Taylor is the first one who laid that out in detail and crucially told the impeachment committees that he takes copious contemporaneous notes oats and had documentation to back up a lot of what he said. Well today the Intelligence Committee released more than three hundred pages of testimony from Bill Taylor from his closed door deposition several weeks ago they also simultaneously announced that Bill Taylor will be a witness at the first public hearing hiring of the impeachment proceedings against Donald J trump. That first public hearing is now on the calendar. It's going to be a week from today. Ambassador Bill Taylor and another senior State Department official named George. Kent they're going to be the first public testimony in the impeachment proceedings a week from today and then two days later next Friday there will be a second public impeachment hearing and that one will feature testimony from the US ambassador to Ukraine. Marie Ivanovich the one who was recalled hauled from that post and sort of inexplicably fired. Essentially it seems to get her out of the way so Rudy Giuliani and president trump could pursue their scheme in Ukraine. The scheme I'm for which the president is now being impeached and presumably for which Mr Giuliani has now obtained his own criminal defense counsel the closed-door depositions are continuing being for now other people have been asked to testify. Some people have been subpoenaed to testify most of those people who have been summoned to give more closed-door depositions the positions. We expect them not to show up. I guess at this point on orders from the White House although with each day you never know who's actually going to turn up. I will tell you one. The witnesses whose asked who has been asked to testify behind closed doors. Who is expected to show up is somebody whose testimony really interested in? And she's going GonNa be testifying tomorrow. It's not a big name not a high profile person but I will tell you why. I'm super interested in her testimony tomorrow. We'll get to that a little later on in tonight show but as they sort of finish up with these closed door witness depositions the first public impeachment hearings are on the calendar. Now so here. We go and remarkably simultaneous to all of that today in federal court in Washington. DC They finished jury reselection and started opening statements in the trial of the president's longtime friend and oldest political adviser a man who has gone to great lengths to make him seem ridiculous for serious news coverage a man named Roger Stone. Now whether or not you are interested in Mr Stone himself and speaking from personal experience variance I can say that interest is hard to sustain on a personal level no offence. I just don't care but the reason he's a Mr Stone is being prosecuted and the way prosecutors are carrying out this case that started today in federal court is like forget Roger Roger Stone I mean yes. His criminal liability here is of interest but forget Roger Stone. The case is about something way bigger than that and we've known owned. That was a possibility when we first saw the charges against stone and the way they laid out the case against him in the indictment but I did not expect it to be like this in court today. Just listen to this we actually we got the transcript that I had no faith we would get it in time for. Tonight's show same day that it happened but just before I came down to the studio and we got on the air tonight We got the transcript of what happened today in court and so I have marked it up. This might be a little rocky because we haven't had it for very long but let me just lay it out here in terms of how the prosecutors are are making this case because you can tell what it's about and you do not have to care about Roger Stone to recognize that this is a big freaking Harry deal all right. Here's how the opening statements arch. The judge. Says all right you can proceed. She says that to the prosecutor Errands Alinsky. And now this is Aaron's alinsky talking. You may recognize his name he was one of the prosecutors who worked on the Muller Investigation. Here's Alinsky he says quote. We are here today because one man obstructed Congress's investigation into Russian interference in the two thousand sixteen eighteen election in a critical investigation of national importance. The defendant Roger Stone repeatedly lied under oath to a Congressional Committee and then tampered with a witness to cover up his tracks. Now you'll hear that in two thousand sixteen the Democratic National Committee which is the organization that runs the Democratic Party in the United States. They announced that their computer system had been hacked by the Russian government. You'll hear that not long after that. A website called wikileaks began to release thousands of emails that had been that were related to the DNC after after wikileaks began releasing these DNC emails. You'll also hear that. The defendant Roger Stone's started bragging that he was in contact with wikileaks and he knew what wikileaks is plans. Were at the time the defendants longtime friend and associate. Donald trump was running for president of the United States Against Hillary Clinton and the defendant Roger Stone thought that those emails would help his friend trump and they would hurt Clinton so you'll hear in August of two thousand sixteen that Mr Stone proclaimed over and over and over again that he was in contact with wikileaks and that he had information about what was coming. And you'll hear that Mr Stone publicly said that he knew this information because he had an intermediary ago between between somebody that he was talking to that was talking to the head of wikileaks. One year later you'll hear that. The United States Congress in particular the House Intelligence Committee was undertaking an investigation into Russian interference in the two thousand sixteen election and because of the allegation that Russia was responsible for the hacking of the DNC server and the emails that were subsequently secretly released by wikileaks. The Intelligence Committee focused on wikileaks and they focus on Roger Stone and the Intelligence Committee wanted to know what Information Stone Joan had gotten from wikileaks. How he'd gotten it and who he was talking to on the trump campaign about it now Roger Stone? You'll hear testified before the committee under oath on September twenty six 2017. And you'll hear that when Mr Stone testified he told the committee five categories of lives. It's not that that's the preamble that's how we start. In terms of the five categories of lies stone spacing seven felony counts altogether one of them very serious as witness tampering that carries a twenty year potential prison term of mentioned that just in case any members of the United States senator listening right now. Witness tampering carries a potential twenty year prison term in addition to that facing five counts of lying to Congress and account of obstruction of justice. Each of those comes with five. Potential years of their own for the prosecution goes through At the outset all of the categories of lies that Roger Stone is alleged to have told under oath first categories this second credit or is this the third and the final category of lies that they describe him as telling. Is this quote the last lie Roger Stone told the committee was about the trump campaign. He was asked the committee whether he had ever discussed what he learned from his intermediary with the trump campaign and Roger Stone told them he hadn't you will hear that Roger Stone discussed what he was learning with the senior levels at the trump campaign. Now you might ask. Why didn't Roger Stone? Just tell the truth to the house. Intelligence Committee the evidence in this case will show that stone lied that the Intelligence Committee because the truth looked bad the truth looked bad for the trump campaign and the truth look bad for Rogers. Excuse me and the Truth Truth look bad for Donald Trump. So this is a case about Roger Stone but the prosecution made clear in their opening statement that the reason stone lied in the prosecutors telling the reason he's on trial right now for these felony counts is because he couldn't tell the truth because and I quote the the truth looked bad for Donald Trump. This is a case about the president. I mean it's about Roger Stone but it's about the president and it's it's it's in part while the House has already in the midst of impeachment proceedings against the president. This case that started today in Criminal Court in Washington is about in part weather. President President Trump's sworn written statements about Roger. Stone were true whether his sworn written statements about what he knew about what stone was doing whether he was any part of that. This case in part is about whether the president's written answers might themselves have been illegal false statements back to back Zelinski here quote just after zone just after stone. Got This message about new expected. Dumps of stolen information and about the Democrats. Roger Stone emailed the chairman of the trump campaign. Paul Manafort Paul. Manafort wasn't just the chairman of the trump campaign. He was also a longtime friend of Roger. Stone Stone wrote route two manafort on August third that he had an idea in his words to forgive me save trump's ass and he asked that Manafort call him you'll also also here that Roger Stone emailed the trump campaign CEO Steve Bannon and when stone email bannon. He told Bannon that trump could still win but time was running out out and he said he knew how to win this but quote it a pretty Roger Stone knew how to win this and he was telling that to the trump campaign. CEO But his way in his own words quote eight pretty now at that same time in August. You'll hear Roger Stone was bragging. He was bragging publicly and he was bragging loudly and he was bragging ragging repeatedly that he was in contact with wikileaks that he had a go between that was telling him information about what was coming that he had an intermediary stone regularly updated people on the trump campaign campaign at the senior levels about whatever information he thought he had about wikileaks. Now make no mistake. Roger Stone could easily told the truth to the Intelligence Committee. Stone could have testified that the ad many emails and messages and texts about wikileaks and Julian assange including the ones. You've seen here today. He could have said many messages with Steve Bannon with Paul Manafort Court with Randy Credit Co with Jerome Corsi about Julian. ASSANGE Roger. Stone could've told the truth that he told Corsi to get to assange and get the pending wikileaks emails and that he then told Corsi to have an associated. There's get to Julian assange and Roger Stone. Could've told the House Intelligence Committee the truth that in fact Coursey had responded back to him him and told him that there would be quote dumps coming in October impact plan to be very damaging and stone could've told the committee he had all of this in writing in his email accounts. Johnson is text messages at the time of testimony. Stone could've told the committee the truth that he asked that he asked to pass along a question to Julian assange that he requested information from assange about whether or not he had e mails concerning. Hillary Clinton and Libya and stone could've told the committee that he spoke with Steve Bannon Bannon and others about what he was learning regarding wikileaks. Stone could've truthfully stated that he had hundreds of messages emails texts. That would show the truth of what happened in two thousand sixteen that he had many written records that could help the committee to establish what had actually happened. But Roger Stone didn't do that it didn't even come close instead. He repeatedly lied to the House Intelligence Committee he did it because if he had told the truth as he said before it wasn't pretty it would look bad and so instead he told these lies. Roger Stone did all of this to obstruct an investigation by the House intelligence committee into Russian interference in the two thousand sixteen election. The committee was undertaking a critical investigation. Asian about an important moment in our nation's history. The House Intelligence Committee was trying to learn the truth about what had happened in the two thousand sixteen election and Roger Stone. He was doing doing his best to stop it. And that is why after you have listened to all the evidence in this case and you have examined the documents and heard the witnesses. We are confident that you will return the only verdict justified on these facts. A verdict of guilty on all counts. Thank you so the president's Being impeached Just in the past few minutes I am advise at the Washington. Post has just reported that the president asked the Attorney General Bill Bar Lar- to hold a press conference saying the president did nothing wrong on the president's phone call to Ukraine for which he's now being impeached the attorney general. Yes that attorney general. Oh Bill Bar. According to The Washington Post tonight reportedly turned the president down and said he would not hold such a press conference also tonight. The president's personal lawyer has just hired his own criminal defense lawyer same defense lawyer. The president's first personal lawyer used to have but he's freed up now because the other guy he used to be. The president's residents personal lawyer is already in prison so his lawyers are available. The public impeachment hearings are going to start next week and and and and and and in a courtroom courtroom in Washington DC. As of today prosecutors are finally litigating for the first time access the obstruction of the Russia investigation. Right but for the first time they are finally litigating what the president knew about Russia's interference to help his campaign and when he knew it they are finally litigating that question while he's already being impeached or something else that totally normal Wednesday right right back. Stay with us. One of the things that has been interesting Actually quite unique about covering this presidency is that this president has just had a terrible time of it in court from the earliest days of his administration. No matter how many judges he appoints and it seems to think that's his way out of it but he just loses case after case after case after case on policy on his tax returns right now he has impeachment to worry about in Congress and multiple criminal cases related to his administration including related to the impeachment playing out in court but just in the past few weeks something truly astounding happened in court even by the standards of this remarkable administration a judge within the last few weeks threatened to send a trump cabinet member to jail. The judge told the trump cabinet secretary quote there have to be some consequences for the violation. Violate Order Sixteen Thousand Times. The judge continued quote. I'm not sending anyone to jail yet but it's good to know I have that ability ability somehow. I do not think that Education Secretary Betsy Devos envisioned herself wearing polyester jumpsuit and eating Bologna sandwiches when she signed up to Education Secretary but she made that federal judge mad enough to threaten. Hit Mad enough to to eventually hold Secretary Betsy Devos in contempt of court and and to find her a one hundred thousand dollars for her going ahead with a policy that the court had ordered her department to stop. We have some context for you tonight on how it is that. A trump cabinet member got that close to jail Stories about one of the country's largest chains of for profit colleges. What's that chain of was basically the bottom line at a total freaking scam? They recruited largely poor and minority applicants by lying about how successful sessile their programs were and the kinds of job placements their graduates would get then they sent those recruits to get student loans from the Federal Government Colleges Colleges ultimately benefited from that right the government lens that money to the students the students then pay it to that scam for profit college so the colleges collect collect all the money. The graduates are left with worthless degrees and a big student. Loan debt to pay back to the government. Some students never even got. The degree agree because the colleges went bankrupt in two thousand fifteen and shut their doors on one day's notice. The Obama Administration tried to do something to help those scam. MM students the Obama Education Department said to those students. Listen those colleges. Those fate colleges were so bad. We are not going to make this problem worse for. We're going to forgive your student. Loan debt if you've got duped. One of those schools got duped by one of those schools. You can petition the federal government for relief from the debt that you got scammed into because that money shouldn't go to those schools and you shouldn't be on the hook for it even though it did. That was how the Obama Administration handled this crisis Then came the trump administration and a new education secretary. Betsy Devos she had a very different idea and so her top lawyer at the Education Department came up with a memo describing. What would be the policy change on this matter under the trump administration and we have obtained that memo here tonight? This is the memo. It's from December twenty seventeen and what it says basically is actually some of these scammed for profit. College students should should pay back their loans. They should be on the hook for that money. The idea as laid out in this memo is that the students must have gotten some benefit from these scam. Am Schools if the department could show that. These people ended up working in jobs that paid them more than if they had not gone to the school on on average looking at it. Statistically in this memo the department claimed to have devised devised a formula for measuring just that well how did that magic formula. They came up with workout. One former student claimed she finished course of study at this scam for profit college. She never got her diploma because the company donate suddenly without warning went bankrupt when she nevertheless tried to get a job in her field. She discovered that the college had not actually given her the required training to get a job in her her field at all. But the trump education department under betsy devos through its magic formula determined that that eligible student was only eligible that that student was eligible to the only have twenty percent of her loan forgiven eighty percent of her education. According to their new formula had actually been quite useful she got neither a diploma nor the training necessary to get a job in her field. They still wanted eighty percent of the money and even without those painful consequences for the students. Even I mean setting aside how this worked out in practice. A federal judge looked at this new policy of the trump administration and declared it illegal determined that this whole formula they had come up with had serious problems for one and dependent on the government taking private information about these students in a the way that the judge said was a violation of the law and so the judge ordered Betsy Devos and education department to stop collecting money from these students and and to stop using that illegal formula and Betsy Devos and her education department ignored the judge's order. It didn't exactly ignore it but they didn't and stop collecting money from the students. Thousands of students were told they still needed to make payments on those loans from the scam colleges and and their credit scores got dinged and their paychecks got garnished and their refunds got their tax refunds got seized this department of Education occasion policy the department determination to keep going with the policy despite the court order striking it down. I mean it materially hurt these Israel Americans who had already been injured right. This damage was painful. It was personal and they did it. Thousands of times thousands of people hurt after the court told the education department and Betsy Devos to stop doing this this illegal policy that they had devised. And that's why. The judge fined the Education Secretary. One one hundred thousand dollars and threatened to put her in jail the hundred thousand dollars. The judge said should go toward trying to ameliorate the harm done to these former students by devos and by the department violating the judge's order. Well this memo laying out this policy under the trump education department this memo that we have obtained tonight the thing that lays out the new formula for collecting money from these scammed students. This policy that got smacked down by judge who then held the department and its cabinet secretary in contempt. This memo came from the guy who at the time was the top lawyer at the education department has a name. His name is Steven Menashe. She he's no longer at the education department. He now works at the White House and President Trump has nominated him for a lifetime. Seat on a federal appeals court just one level below the United States Supreme Court Senate. Judiciary Committee is scheduled to vote on his nomination tomorrow morning. But here's the thing Mr Menashe's nomination nation appears already to be in trouble. If they do vote on tomorrow that will be the third effort. They've made to try to call a vote on his nomination. Keeps getting kicked keeps getting rolled over to date after new date after new date because he is one of Donald Trump's most controversial nominees which is saying something given the roster of people who Donald Trump has tried to turn into judges. We've talked about Mr Nash. Before on the show and the paper trail left of his own writing for example on an Italian prime ministers proclamation of the superiority of Western civilization over Islam. Mr Menagerie says quote Mr Police Colonel Mr Berlusconi did nothing other than state. The obvious use the obvious inferiority of Islam he also wrote about how offensive it was to him. That the Matthew Shepard murder got so much attention. That definitely didn't I need as much attention as it got. He also pined on the movement against Campus Rape Against Rape and sexual assault on college. Campuses said campus guy. No centrists throwing around these accusations. But there's no similar leeway for men and then there's of course his law review article entitled titled Ethno-nationalism and Liberal Democracy and which he argues quote the solidarity underlying Democratic Policies rests in large part on ethnic identification Shen. Surely it does not serve the cause of liberal democracy to ignore this reality article goes on to argue that ethnically heterogeneous societies society's ethnically diverse societies. have less good stuff in the when it comes to being a good democracy a working party ethnic heterogeneity it's not ideal. Just that stuff alone has been dragging behind. The bumper of the Stephen Menagerie judicial shall nomination like a just Mary decoration made of angles and millstones right. He has expressed regret for some of his writings. But it's all stuck to him in part because because there's so much of it. Senate Judiciary Committee has been voting other very very very right. Wing judicial nominees right on through. But they have been holding up Stephen Menagerie and now they have this new memo to consider this education policy from Stephen the nasty that proved disastrous for students and embarrassing and expensive and potentially incarcerating cursory eating for our nation's secretary of Education. We reached out to the White House with some questions for Mister menagerie about this memo. We haven't heard anything back from them. I'm telling you I'm not taking taking it personally because they also apparently did not answer questions tonight from the New York Times which as of this evening is also reporting this story tonight an excellent piece in the New York Times tonight from Erica Green. Who's also obtained this memo? Just read you the lead. Erica Greene story on this tonight. In The New York Times quote a judicial nominees slated for a Senate confirmation vote on Thursday meaning tomorrow helped devise an illegal education department effort to deny debt. Relief to thousands of students cheated by their for profit colleges. Well put Yeah He. He devised this illegal effort. It resulted among other things and not only people illegally having their wages garnished and their tax returned seized in their credit. Scores dinged and all the rest of that people who absolutely should not have been subjected to that thousands of people it also resulted in the secretary of that agency being threatened with jail time and hit with one hundred thousand dollar fine so naturally. That's the guy they're putting up for a lifetime. Federal appointment as judge just one level below the Supreme Court and on top of everything else. That's going on right now Senate. Judiciary Committee is scheduled for now to be voting on Stephen Menashe's nomination for a lifetime appointment to the Federal Bench Tomorrow Ten am eastern. We'll see we'll keep you posted ambassador. Bill Taylor the top American Arken diplomat in Ukraine decades diplomatic experience under presidents of both parties when he was called to testify before the impeachment proceedings. Recently we knew shortly shortly after he showed up when we got his opening statement. We knew he would confirm that. Yes president trump really did block military aid to Ukraine to get that country to gin gene up some dirt on his domestic political rivals that that quid pro quo plot line is very simple. Very consistent across all the testimony from all the witnesses so far Taylor is the the one who I laid it out more clearly than anybody else. Because that plotline is simple and direct now been reiterated by all of the other witnesses milt. We ought to be honest. You don't necessarily need all the details that we got from the three hundred and twenty four pages. Long transcript of Bill. Taylor's testimony that the impeachment committees released today. But even if you don't need it you might want some of these details anyway. For example there is this moment when ambassador Taylor is describing the National Security Council having to convene a a whole bunch of interagency meetings to try to figure out why the military aid to Ukraine is being held up Taylor says in his testimony that literally everyone was in agreement that that military aid should be released without delay the defense secretary. CIA Director National Security Adviser. Everybody wants the release so they're all scheduling -jelling meetings trying to get the president to release this stuff trying to figure it out but it turned out they were having trouble they were having trouble scheduling a meeting with the president to talk about this matter for a very specific reason. Taylor says quote I think this was also about the time of the Greenland question about purchasing greenland which took up a lot of energy in the National Security Council chairman. Adam Schiff okay. That's disturbing for a whole different reason. The president is trying to shake out a foreign leader for dirt on his political opponents. He's holding up military aid to try to force them to do it and his National Security Council can't find the time to get him to stop doing that because they're all too busy dealing with his stated efforts to buy a whole different country to buy it. That's that's a good day at the trump White House so there's that but then there's also the human reaction from these witnesses who again again are mostly longtime public. Servants and experts in their field at one. Point is testimony New York Congressman. Sean Patrick Maloney Asks Ambassador Bill Taylor quote. What was your emotional reaction to these events until against a pretty stunning response? He says quote I think Ukraine is important objectively to the United States. The emotional ocean piece is based on my time in Ukraine. Two thousand six two thousand nine. When traveling around the country I got to know Ukrainians and their frustrations difficulties in those kinds of things and then coming back and seeing it now where they have the opportunity they got a young president young Prime Minister Young Parliament? The Prime Minister's thirty five years old. This new government has appealed to young people who we're so idealistic. So pro-west so pro-united states pro Europe that I feel an emotional attachment bond connection to this country in these people. I cared about this country. I didn't WanNa see it screwed up. I wanted it to. I wanted to see it succeed Congressman Patrick Baloney says quote. And he didn't WanNa see it screwed up by some political agenda coming from Washington. Is that fair to say Bester. Taylor says well what I didn't want to do have. US assistance to Ukraine blocked or suspended for no good reason that I could see and there are some bad reasons that I didn't want to see that blocked Taylor is going to be the first testament I witness in the public testimony. That has just been announced the impeachment proceedings for one week from today congressman. Sean Patrick Colonie joins US next. So today we got more than three hundred pages of testimony. Transcript from the top diplomat in Ukraine. Bill Taylor this is from his deposition in the impeachment proceedings deposition in which he laid out the story that has been confirmed now by witness after witness that the president held up military Ukraine Ukraine to try to get that country to dirt on President Trump's political opponents with everything else that has been turned up over the course of these impeachment proceedings that remains the core of what is happening here joining us. Now is New York Congressman. Sean Patrick Maloney is a member of the Intelligence Committee. Sir thanks for being here. It's nice to see you. I'm pleasure so public airing start a week from today How should we prepare for that as people who are going to be watching this to try to figure out what's happening overall with this story and what's happening in terms of the president's called culpability? Well well I think the transcripts are a great place to start. I know it's there long and they can be dense but there's a very important story there. It's also very sad story. So story about failure at the highest levels herbals American political leadership. It's about straight about advancing shabby political and financial interests over our national security. If you actually care about the American government if you spend your youth thinking that we were capable of great things. It's heartbreaking to read the conduct the American President engaged in. But it's important and ambassador faster. Taylor lays it out very clearly in terms of the remaining closed-door depositions. I know that there was one today where it State Department official David Hale actually showed Yup. I know tomorrow you're expecting to hear testimony from a person who worked in the vice. President's office is the first time as far as I know that a vice presidential santeuil adjacent person will be speaking. There was also a decision today to drop a subpoena for an official who had gone to court to try. Try to have judge decide whether or not he should obey the subpoena. Can you tell us anything about that decision. Well in the last case the Kupperman Subpoena as I understand it. The point is that we don't WanNa do anything that would advance a strategy to delay through litigation when in the mcgann case separate case the judge is going to ruin rural very quickly on the same question about whether there is some blanket never heard of before wall-to-wall immunity from the Authority of Congress to do oversight on behalf of Vichy officials like this it's a it's a frivolous claim. It's going to be disposed of earlier and a as I understand it. That's the point behind withdrawing that subpoenaed to essentially take away Mr Dilatory legal arguments and have them advance more quickly through the mcgann case in terms of the dramatic revision to his earlier testimony that we saw from embassador sun plan yesterday. It was a remarkable document. Saying I know refreshed. I've had my recollection refreshed. I now recall. And basically what he discloses is that on the sidelines of meeting. That vice president pence had With the Ukrainian president where Vice President Pence said. You're not getting your military aid unless you give us these corruption actions that we want corruption related actions that we want Saunas now admitting the on the sidelines of that meeting he made crystal clear to the Ukrainian government. What we mean gene is? You're not getting your military aid unless you announce those investigations now tomorrow. Somebody from works in the vice president's office is going to be testifying is vice president pence one of the people who carried out this game for president trump will ask that question of of some of the witnesses. I'm interested in that. He did meet with the president of Ukraine in Warsaw on September number. I it is on the sidelines of that meeting. That ambassador Sunlen delivered the explicit quid pro quo to the key aid of Ukrainian president. Mr Euromac said you're not getting anything. The White House meeting not this desperately needed security assistance until you issue an explicit statement which you've been negotiating Giuliani saying Barista twenty sixteen elections nations though Biden's are the heart of this thing and Sunland forgot that until twenty four hours ago but he has an important piece of this puzzle. And it's good that he he is aligning his testimony with what has been corroborated by other witnesses and documents. It's important piece of the puzzle and the vice president's role is still a question mark on this. Is it possible. The vice president will be called to give testimony himself. You know. I'm not prepared to say that. At this point I would need to have a lot more evidence of of what he did on this and I would wanNA lose focus on the president. which is the central issue? What did the United States do? Why did he do it? And you know the evidence is overwhelming that this was a clear abuse of power for the worst possible reason. And I'd WanNa stay focused on that at least for now. I do think it's important. Everybody involved in this answer for their actions. New York Congressman. Sean Patrick Maloney. It's GonNa be a very busy week leading to a very busy day a week from today when those first public hearings happened happened. Thank you for being here. Thank you all right. We'll stay with footage from September first. Twenty nineteen when vice is president. Mike Pence went overseas met with Ukrainian. President what I was. Just talking with congressman. Sean Patrick Maloney about who else was in that room. We've got that footage and that answer which will tell you about the most interesting thing that's going to happen in tomorrow's news next stay with us. This is September Twenty Nineteen Vice President Mike Pence in Europe Meeting with the Ukrainian president at this meeting. We believe that Vice President Pence told the Ukrainian president right yeah the. US government was holding up their military aid unless Ukraine took some sort of action on corruption. Which means in the context of this impeachment inquiry the vice president pence is the one who personally delivered the? You're not getting your military a message face to face in that room. Look at who else was in that room at that time. In there's Gordon Sunland. US Ambassador to the U Who now admits? After revising his testimony that yes even on the various sidelines sidelines of that meeting he was personally reinforcing to the Ukrainians. No you're not getting your military aid unless you announce these investigations but if you keep panning the person in the second row there we believe is also newly important to the story because that is State Department veteran who was detailed Vice President Pence's office she surprisingly has just agreed to testify tomorrow. Jennifer Williams one of two staff members from Pence's office who was listening in on the July twenty fifth call between the President President trump and the Ukrainian president. Her whole job at that point was to relay what happened on that. Call to Vice President. Mike Pence she was on that call. She was in charge of Ukraine issues for the vice president's office. She was in Ukraine in the room when he demanded that Ukraine wasn't going to get their military aid unless they coughed up with the administration wanted on corruption option. And now that person Jennifer Williams says she will answer the House impeachment. Committee's questions tomorrow. I know it's a lot. This is walnuts tomorrow. We'll be worse. That's GonNa do it for us for now. We'll see you again. Then the show weeknights at nine stern on. MSNBC WE are living in complicated times. I'm Stephanie Rule. MSNBC ANCHOR AND NBC News correspondent in my new podcast. Modern rules I have. Some of the smartest most was thoughtful. People I know. Join me in real candid conversations. People like my friend quest love discussing political correctness and masculinity are so low the the same way that

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