Jane Goodall on What it Means to Be Human
Support. For on being with Krista Tippett comes from the Fetzer Institute helping build the spiritual foundation for a loving world. FETZER envisions a world that embraces love as a guiding principle and animating force for our lives. A powerful love that helps us live in sacred relationship with ourselves, others, and the natural world learn more by visiting FETZER DOT Org. Several years ago, I moderated a gathering on an island off is stunned bill that included the primatology I. Jane Goodall. I knew about her epic early years studying chimpanzees in the wild at first without even college degree. The science she proceeded to do also ended up shaping the self understanding of our species. She recalled modern Western science to the fact that we are a part of nature not separate from it, but what I'd never gleaned from all I've read about her across the years yet saw powerfully when we met is how fully she had mid-career given her life's work over to a new passion. Humanity had become a threat to its own Ken in the natural world with the same careful. EMPATHIC is she trained on the entire ecosystem of the gumby forest. She began to do her part to tend to the human pain and misunderstanding that led to her beloved chimpanzees suffering. This hour on zoom line in a world and pandemic. We explore the moral and spiritual convictions that have driven this extraordinary woman, what she is teaching and still learning about what it means to be human. I believe a trick of the intellect which is so startling. Eighty was the fact that we develop this way of communicating. So I you things, you don't know. Me, things, I don't know. We can teach children about things that aren't present, and all that has enabled us to ask questions like who am I. Why am I here? And I believe part of being human is questioning a curiosity trying to find on. An understanding that there are some answers that feast on this planet is life. Is Life. Full. We will not be to also. I'm Krista Tippett and this is on being. Jane Goodall spoke with me from warmoth England in the home where she spent part of her childhood living with her mother and her beloved grandmother whom she called, Danny? Both are largely in her many books and stories. WanNa Start where I always start which is how how if I ask you about be spiritual background of your childhood of your earliest life. However, you understand that word now where does that memory take you? Well I wouldn't have thought of anything spiritual when I was a child. Now my grandfather was a congregational minister. I never met him. We mom my sister. Came to live in this house for I. Am now with my grandmother and Moms two sisters. So was he the husband? Of Danny? Was He that other of your grandmother you call Danny as? He was the husband of Danny. I wish I'd met him because he sounds completely wonderful, but I didn't and so we sometimes went particularly religious. And I love to spend most of my time outside in the garden was pre television, pre laptops, cellphones another event. And so we had. Books and imagination a nature. So I learned a lot from nature I was outside. And I, love climbing. Trees had special tree which I'm looking at right now be. Spend hours and hours up beach. Feeling chose to the sky and the buds. I. Suppose that was the chose this to some kind of spiritual feeling nature. That I had I wouldn't have thought of it as that that time. Right you've. You've said that you really feel like you. Loved animals and loved nature I think from the womb onwards a woman would. My first serious observation of animals was four and a half when I waited for hours to see a headland. To, say, it was my to Muslim. WHO's enabling me to do what I've done because she didn't know where I was. I was hiding a hen house waiting because nobody would tell me what the hell was. The came out and it wasn't logical as it was. It was a logical observation that it didn't make sense. Wasn't obvious. So I handle into a hen house where they slipped night and the next. Round the. You. Know she must. So I crawled off to, which was a big mistake she flew out with school Safiya. and. So in my little four and a half year old mine, I must've thought well, no Hanrahan. I think five, the hen houses. So, I went into an empty one, hundred waited at apparently awaited about four hours. They even called the police. They will also change Jomie Ghana for a holiday onto this farm. and. By mother must be really nervous. You can imagine your little. Has Disappeared on, he show me rushing towards the house. She saw my shining eyes on. Sat Down the wonderful story of how a hand lays egg on the reason I love that story is. Isn't that the making of a little scientists asking questions not getting the right on some citing defined out. Making a mistake, not giving up dining issues. You know a different mother. How Day off without telling us don't you depth donated again might have crushed that early scientific curiosity at my might not have done. I've done. It strikes me There's another story that you tell. So let me just say you. So. We're speaking in twenty twenty, just about sixty years after you went to. I went to the gun base. Stream Chimpanzee Reserve in Tonga Meka, which is now Tanzania July nineteen sixty I was born in that year nineteen, sixty few months after you went to convey. And I'm so aware that what you began to see and study and turn into scientific observation. They're really transformed the world I grew up learning about I was also struck like the store. You just told about watching the hen laying the egg, the stories about you taking worms to bed as a child or your love of your dog. Rusty. There's another store that struck me when I was reading. Think this was in in the shadow of man about when your mother was with three for a while. In the early part of the study, she went back to England your I alone. And how you're walking around kind of naming the aspects of the forest. Good Morning Peak. Hello Stream a when for heaven's sake calmed. down. And then of course, that echoes stories that are so alive in our culture, and even the ones have influenced you the doolittle's Tarzan wind in the willows. As a parent children and adults in the presence of children's see, aspects of the natural world is animated and alive, and they give things. Name said, the human imagination has always inclined this way. So. There's one way in which as I as I read this story, understand that you one thing you did, you helped substantiate an intuitive understanding and bond that human beings have you put data to the truth, such stories carried well when I first went to gone. Nobody else had studied chimpanzees in wild, right uncharted territory. And of course, the first problem is that the chimps runaway the soon as they may never seen anything like this white eight. Beautiful. And it was very wonderful that time that my mom was the reason she says the British authorities not tank, any laws outpost crumbling British Empire back. And they wouldn't take responsibility for becoming on my own they. have to bring someone with knee. So she Poland. So, she was said to boost my morale as early days because I get by dejected the chimps runaway again. She was pointing out that on this peak I discovered I. Use my binoculars and she did you, you're learning how the chimpanzees make beds at night bending the Brunch or so. You'll learning how they sometimes travel alone sometimes in small groups, and sometimes in big excited gatherings, you're learning the foods that they eat McCall they may. So. You're learning more than you think. Really sad that she left just two weeks before that breakthrough observation when the one chimp who had just begun loses via darling. David Greybeard. As him, using a making tools to fish And? That was the turning point. That was what enabled my mentor Louise Leaky to go to the National Geographic Society. Agreed. To Fund the research when the six months money row? Now, six months money came from American van through pitch. Done. Great. told him still. And they sent Hugo van now to take the graphs to make film UK mind as husband and his photographs and film. Geographic magazines and documentaries, but forced science to believe what I was saying because people that many of them had said, well, why should we believe what she says she hasn't been to college, she's just to go. But when they hugo's film than they had to believe when they saw what you saw. Yeah. But I do think it's worth underlining because it's so hard for people. Now to imagine that as late as you know, the latter half, of twentieth, Century Human Beings thought that we were the only creatures who made tools. That's what list science believed if somebody at that time had gone to the pig in the rainforest in Congo. They could have told you I've sat and talked to the nave. Watched it. Right. It was man toolmaker. It was Osmond Hill who define now stuff. and. So it was it was talk I. Think the Scientific World, and when I finally with made to go to Cambridge University by Louis. Leakey, said I needed a degree, it wouldn't always be around it. Monday. Also, you were the eighth person in the history of Cambridge to come in, you came to do graduate work without an undergraduate degree which was almost unheard of. Yes. He the. Yeah I was weakened with signed a two said, well, you've done your study. Wrong. You shouldn't have named the chimpanzees they should have had now because at science. And Yukon talk about personality mind capable of solving or emotions because of the unique to us. But the dog you mentioned rusty, he told me when I was a child. That certainly wasn't true and not the only beings on the planet with cuss analogies, minds in emotions, and we all part of a not separate on the rest of the animal. Kingdom. I was actually taught in this in the textbooks. The difference between us and all animals is one kind, right? That's such. An important distinction for you. Would you elaborate on what you mean white? So important, there isn't a difference in kind in kind what what does that word hold? The opposite of it is degree. The difference is degree in other words following Darwin Syria be pollution. You know species gradually evolve and wages one of the species and so. I just could not believe. that. The scientists was saying that took too many of the religions talk to the Buddhists. To to the indigenous people they believe. That with part of the Animal Kingdom. They believed animals are all brothers and sisters, right? Arrogant. Western. Science and I think it probably stems from religion God. made man made man different God made man to have dominion over the birds and the animals fish. So but. That is a wrong translation I put Hebrew friends yet. The Low Hebrew word which I do not remember. But I've written it down one of my books men. Steward Not Dominion Right The Dominion, but but that that point of view that way of thinking and seeing. Also. Penetrated western science. It seems to me that the significance of your work in the self understanding of our species. There's so many ways to talk about it, but it also these observations reconnected us as you said. That we part of the Animal Kingdom that we are part of nature, not just in our bodies has another way you say that there's social and emotional continuity. With. The natural world that we're creatures. Rather than all the other creatures being creatures as another way people talk about I. Think. The, genesis, stories. We'll. Just. Very arrogant to think that way, you know some people's filter, the other thing which very dangerous about signs I was told. At. Cambridge. that. You have to be absolutely objective, and you must not have empathy zero subject and to me that right from the beginning with. So wrong because when I was watching chimpanzee family, for example, and one of the young ones some a little strange. And so because I was empathetic towards. I thought. Well, if you know if they will human, they do it because of. Whatever? That gives you a platform. You can stand on that platform. Ben Try to analyze what you see in a scientific way. Pathy, it gives you know stuff intuition. That moment which you wouldn't get if you didn't have empathy either been also the code scientific approach I, believe post led to a lot of suffering on this planet. I. Mean, you also experienced because I think you were open because you are seeing observing. You also experienced empathy. On the part of the chimpanzees you were studying, right? I mean that there's that moment with David Greybeard that you've described about offering him a piece of fruit which he did not take. But he took your hand instead, he took it drop to gently squeeze my fingers which. Chimpanzees reassure each of. which you understood as him, sensing, motivation and honoring it. Well you know the thing was we totally understood each other in a language that clearly predated human spoken language language off the postal languages. So almost the same holding hands passing on Olympic Kissing. Embracing. You know a judge just. When we communicate nobly, virtually the same as chimpanzees swagger, shake off his son. Male, chimpanzee is sometimes remind. Number, human. Male. Politicians. Lay Bristol, and they tried look big important and intimidated by punching the lipson furious I'll. Leave. A.. I'm Christopher Tampa. Being today exploring what it means to be human with the legendary primatology St- Jane Goodall. So nine, hundred and sixty went to convey. You. Began to write your work became well known. As you said, on many ways, you've described nine, hundred, eighty, six, thousand, nine, hundred, sixty, one to. Yield. To organize a conference of primatology in Chicago. Around. Chimpanzee behavior in different environments and and you've actually described that not just as a turning point, but in some places as a road to Damascus moment. Could you tell that story? What happened to there is by the time you know by nineteen, eighty, six, I have my ph date I. built up a research station and best of all, I could spend hours alone in the rain forest mess. I felt that deep spiritual connection to the natural world and also him to understand the ended connectedness of all living things in this tapestry of life where each species matter, how insignificant place probably vital role in the whole pattern. And I imagine continuing in that way. The rest of my life. Why not? And then we organized it was when I published that big book, the chimpanzees of Gumby cutting behavior. And had all my signed of sedation, but it also had all the stories because the story, an anecdote. Very. Carefully. Recorded observations on any job because you only see once those those anecdotes, sometimes the key to unlocking a puzzle. Terribly, important and a collection of any else stories. Has Been Very very important in my research. Anyway, I am arranging to bring the six other studies sites, but then a we invited scientists from each and also from noninvasive captive research like big big zoo groups, for example. But, we had one session on conservation and one session on conditions in some captive situations. and. Both what. uttley shocking. I mean I knew those deforestation going on. I was totally unaware of the extent of it, and that's way back in nineteen eighty, six chimpanzee numbers decreasing the rise of the Bush meat trade as the commercial hunting of wild animals of food. They live animal huntin shooting mothers so that you can sell 'em babies locally as petzold trade, the mobile seems. And that was a huge. and. Then the captive situation that was eight seeing our closest relatives who can live for up to will more than sixty years in five foot by five foot medical research labs surrounded by Iron Baas, Toki alone nothing to do just because their bodies A. so like us we share ninety eight point six percent of our DNA. So. I. Didn't make a decision. I just knew when I left I gained so much from the chimpanzees I had to try and do something to help. That's why cool at my Damascus moment. I wondered as the scientists on my leftism. He's oppose you call me an activist or something like that. Just happened I. Knew I had to do something. It's quite astonishing to me too though that the other the next move you made really was very similar to. The approach you took the skills you had learned and cultivated in studying. In Bombay. Seeing the plight of chimpanzees than lead you. In fact be an activist in terms of the plight of human beings that led. To forest disappearing into these kinds of atrocities perpetrated on. On these animals on our Ken. I believe that the title of Your Book in the shadow of Man in nineteen. seventy-one was that chimpanzees live in the shadow of man as we evolve to overshadow them with our powers of thought and speech. But what you also then picked up was how we evolved and become a threat to the natural world from which we emerged and with which we remained in kinship. Yes, absolutely, and it's a big puzzle, the biggest difference between US chimps and other animals if the explosive development of our intellect. Because Signs is now acknowledging that you know animals are not. Machines. They want soared the huge flurry of information really exciting about animal intelligence. Ranges from. You know chimpanzees using computers in clever ways and elephants with a very close social Relationships between her members and crews who turned out to be able to actually use a nate tools and. Pace, you know they're they're intelligent stokes more intelligent than some and. Not. We know the octopus is highly intelligence. and. Lino trees communicate exactly plant life. The intelligence plans. Yeah. So here we are with this into late to enabled us to do something very different from Ole animal successes. That's designer Rob Kit, for example, went up to mas and the rocket as being crawling around taking photos for us to see the at one time people. Maybe we can live on laws. Well, we now know that's not possible. Bizarre. Isn't it the most intellectual? Great? Surely, that's ever lived on the planet is destroying it suddenly home, and I always believe it's because this disconnect between that level clever brain and you might have love compassion. I truly believe anyone head in hard work in harmony. Can we attain not true human potential? But again, you know that empathic scientific that you brought in Gombe Bay of like wondering how you might behave in that situation. When you flew over Gumby and a small plane. That was another moment that shaped the approach you took. To. To doing your part. With our species? Always, believed that if you want to. Understand and be able to talk to people about something that you need. First hand experience, which I forced myself in the medical. And began a long long struggle, but which finally success at. To Stop Research on chimpanzees and maybe I, should divert a little bit. He just say that. In dealing with these people in the labs, you know lots of animal rights, people stop talking to me, they should help you sit down with them. You don't sit down and talk to people. How can you expect to change? So I also had previously the value don't be confrontational. So I told them stories because they don't believe that people change because that bullied I, believe people change because they change from within. So I didn't blame them what they were doing I just gave stories and showed pictures of the gum. BEECHAM's lazing around in moving, playing, swinging through the trees men in Van Lines. They probably never even seen that before. So that's high. Out How I dealt with them, then he has going to Africa to land has tended Why Chimpanzees disappearing, Muslims? Going on an learning a great deal about it. But even as I was learning about the chips, I was learning about A. Crippling poverty of so many people living in and around Kobe touch. Right. It, it's like you looked at the ecosystem that gave rise to poverty, and that gave rise to this distorted relationship to the land which had these ripple effects on the. The chimpanzees and the other. Great. Apes. right and that you started stitching an ecosystem back together again will lead us the. Yes. So they were your partners they. You listen to them. I think and yet let them lay it. They become partners, they depend on the forest protecting. It isn't just the the wildlife, its own feature. After a short break more with Jane Goodall. You can always listen again and here the unedited version of every show we do on the on being podcast feed wherever podcasts are found. On being is brought to you by the John Templeton Foundation harnessing the power of the sciences to explore the deepest and most perplexing questions facing humankind learn how their guarantees are helping to address the coronavirus crisis a templeton. Dot Org. I'm Krista Tippett, and this is on being today I'm with the primatology Jane, Goodall. She's been widely interviewed and chronicled in this year of pandemic sixty years on from when she first went to the bay forest in what is now Tanzania and transform the understanding of Western Science and culture about the closest kin to humanity. We're exploring what she's learned and is still teaching about our species. She's been talking about her more recent adventures which took her out of the forest I, advocating the human habitat of research laboratories towards ending experimentation on great apes, and then into a unique method of holistic community based conservation. Gumby. Call to car. Three decades ago, she also founded the roots and shoots movement with the inspiration of twelve teenagers on her porch. In Tanzania. It's now in nearly one hundred countries. Did Roots and shoots emerge out of to curry no roots and shoots. Because our to carry was expensive to operate. We've already are starting in some African countries. Around the world gradually, Pelletan further around. Talking to people about the problems in Africa, the reason for them and hoping to raise certainly awareness, maybe some money and I kept meeting Young People Susan. Nineteen ninety. Young. People who seem to have lost hope and talking mostly about university students. Some high. School. and. They will mostly just at the take but some depressed, really depressed, somewhat angry. When I asked them why they felt that way? They all sent more or less the same ups in Asia in North and South America Europe. By then I hadn't gone to the Middle East but I know they say the same man now because they said, you compromise future than this nothing, we can do about it. So you've heard that saying, we haven't inherited this planet raw ancestors. We borrowed it from children. We have been borrowed. We've stolen and we're still seeking today. Yes. These teams are as alive now. I love the would you the all of the nuance of the title of the name Roots and shoots? Think also really speaks to the philosophy of this. Would you just describe love? Oriented High Love Trees. I think my my very favorite individual tree has to be in my garden and when beach began to grow over one hundred years ago, actually A. Pretty tiniest seed. And if I picked it up at that time, it would have seen. So small and little rowing, shoot a little roots, and yet there is what I call magic. It's a live fullest in that little seeds. So powerful. That to reach the water at the tree will need those little roots can work through eventually, push them aside and little shoot to reach the sunlight which tree will need photosynthesis had work its way through cracks in a brick or eventually knock it down. Until we see the Greeks walls as all the problems social and environmental, we have in victims on the planet. So it's a message of help hundreds of thousands of young people around the world can break through and can make this world, and we've got members in kindergarten university everything in between. and. It's my greatest recent pokes everywhere I, go these young people telling me showing me finding is what they're doing, what they being doing, what they plan to do to make the world better. In your book reason for hope. You use the language of moral evolution and even spiritual evolution as your hope for our species. and I wonder what that means for you, and how do you think about the contours of that challenge? That was in one, thousand, nine, hundred, nine that you wrote that book. Yeah. Twenty years on. A change place at an strange strange time. Is. Well, I think that during this time. We've seen. Very big move towards more moral behavior greater understanding. And you can just trace it very clearly are. To animals around the world, the growth of these are organizations took protecting animals, cruelty ben on the other hand. You proliferation organizations find help victims, human victims of domestic violence and orphans, refugees, and migrants. So we're. Getting. Some people? Much more much. Much, further advanced than others. Well I. think that something that you became aware of in your study of chimpanzees over time and that you've always been aware of in the human condition is our capacity for. Great empathy and play, and creativity, and intelligence, and also cruelty and atrocity. Okay I was shocked to find chimpanzees have this dog aggressive side like us. made the more like us. They will, which is a sad statement to have to make. But I think early humans are capable of true evil because a chimpanzee will kill, but it's a spur of the moment. It's it's an emotion. It's an emotional response to a situation was we can sit down far away from intended victim and in cold blood plan out the most brutal forms of torture. That's that's the difference. Intellect that has enabled us to think in those terms. There's irony that you have spent these years these decades now. Since. That Damascus experience of as you say when you realized you had to be. That you became not just a scientist but an activist. And you needed to be working with human beings in changing. Our relationship. To. The natural world. There's just kind of this inverse. You know the stories, the early stories in early writing and the films. There's almost this dreamlike quality to the to the fact that you this young. Englishwoman. Without a college degree where who had always wanted to go to Africa. Always loved animals that you were able in in your go work with Louis, leakey, and. and become a scientist and be in this extraordinary place where you're so at home and then you have ended up. As part of the calling to that same purpose. Spending most of your time outside that forest, not now in the middle of the pandemic. But spending a lot of time in airplanes, and on the road, you've asked this question in writing. What if I had known that my efforts would keep me more or less permanently on the road. What I've been strong enough committed enough to start out along such a hard road but I that you still. Feel that the answer to that is yes. I think so I. I, look back over my life and she always turning points when I could have done this or I needn't have done it i. think it made the right decisions. You know was only difficult things happen beating Louis Leakey in. And him taking me to own. Divi and seeing how we I reacted to rhinos, lions and deciding. Person He'd being looking for, but united rental goes back to having this amazing mother mom. Let me go. Alone on a boat, Africa wasn't Unin those. Young men did the. Will to but. It wasn't like students today, go off and have experiences backpacking was totally different and the other thing she did which. I think helped to make me who I am off to the wall. You can imagine that during the war sounded Yeoman, Roy sent chills on spine, right? We hated the Nazis we hated. And yet off to the war. When my F- Ankle, one out to Germany was the English sector he headed up. And he found a German couple, three children onto somebody. Allen. Good English. And among let me go hit Nicole because of what she told me, you know just because of Hitler and the Nazis doesn't mean Germans are bad people. She wanted me to save myself. That we are beyond allows human beings and some stances on culture. Nationality. Change, the way we behave, but inside it'll way human. Very. Good lesson for me too long. I think it's such an important lesson to put in front of. Our species now. because. The challenges are great kind of the eggs essential challenge of what it means to be human in this century. You know amazingly. Low I, think I imagined it start with, but roots and shoots has developed a very strong ethical set of of moral values. And I found increasing those I call. The alumni were part of roots and shoots at school colleg. You know they hang onto those valleys. In China people come up to me, and of course, I care about the environment I was in roots and shoots in. School by time in all schoolbooks, it's interesting. Isn't it? So we have a huge group of young people in China, passionate about the environment and protecting animals. Laura. Student. and. Again, you know that's it's so important to hear that story, which is a story of that are happening, but it's It contrasts with big sweeping generalizations that good made. I mean I. I think we tend to turn especially in a moment where people are so fearful in their bodies, right? which is very hard for us to behave at our best when we're so fearful in our bodies. So. Confronted with, uncertainty. But we turn these great challenges before us into big fights. And I just you know I mean I'm going to read this passage. From reason, for hope, you said, you said this a minute ago, but I don't think it can be emphasized too much. If we think about what's before us in terms of. How we completely rearrange our relationship with the natural world. Had, a, we remake the world. Around what has surfaced in pandemic of what is simply unsustainable and inhumane? And I think of you. In. Gombe Bay going into the present to mysterious kin of humanity and and observing and what you learned about approaching the other, and here's something you wrote. In reason for hope, it is my task to try to change their attitude. In this matter, they will not listen if I raise my voice and point an accusing finger. Instead, they will become angry and hostile, and that will be the end of the dialogue. Real change will only come from within laws and regulations are useful, but sadly easy to flout. So I keep the anger, which, of course, I feel as hidden and controlled as possible I tried to reach gently into their hearts. There's that hardward. Well. Lucky isn't it? I was wanted to write I've loved writing. Yes, and I think I was given A. On purpose give. One gift to a healthy body. I mean not not too many eighty, six year. Old Can do what I was doing before the pandemic. Working harder now than even on a tour I have to say. To my voice just getting. On awesome. Video messages to send people and emails, I. It doesn't stop. But. The healthy body is one, but if communication writing speaking against, Joey work acted. Yes. Of course. But nevertheless, it was a gift that I discovered when I was. So terrified of my first ever lecture, which was the five thousand people in what's now dog constitution hope food geographic. Washington DC. I was terrified and I. I swear three minutes of behind grieved although people said, they didn't out to sit, and then suddenly that was five thousand people. And it was like something came the skimped like, yes, I. Want to share with. Them? I. Think it's a wonderful thing to share. Something like that. You've often quoted. This line that your grandmother Danny conveyed to you biblical mantra. As they days socialize strength be. With you now, absolutely definitely, and you know I made my grandmother. What we called a Bible box. It was six latch oxes. You'd. So it was like a little chest draws pulled out with the paper clip, I. Read Every single chapter of the Bible. It took about three months I. Think. It was a secret, the her Christmas present on a road map I wrote out the text on one side, and where came from the Bible the other. and. So, I was sitting off on one of my elvis tours of was seeing the off, my sister, you know. And she said, Oh, have a habitat before he goes called out. A text which read he who has once set his hand. APPLY PLOWSHARE ATTORNEYS BACK IS NOT FIT for the Kingdom of Heaven. So Jewison okay. A few. Do the other tours I got exactly the same. We always put him back in. Just. Last week when I was moaning about how busy I am. She said, Oh takes they came up I you we both neely I think he was speechless. And nobody else in the house of a happened one. Well I. Is Clear before me? I think. So I think that we all are you a debt of gratitude for accepting the adventures and this and and the sacrifices and the hard work that come with them. If I if I just ask you enclosing a huge question. But I'm curious about how you might just start answering it today how your sense of what it means to be human keeps evolving. What is it? What it means to be human means to be human I? Mean I am PROSAIC I. Know that. We're. Not Full. Progression of life forms. That, way. Not. In not, in many ways, we are so much a part of the animal kingdom, and then what's differentiated US Assistant. You. It was some point earlier, Utah divided our intelligence, but we're not really a very intelligent species always when we destroy your home, but is our intellect enables anyway. So. Think, not everyone agrees with me, but I believe the. Trick of the today intellect, which is so startling. Really was the fact that we developed this way of communicating speaking. So I can tell you things. You don't know. You can tell me things, I, know we can teach children about things around present and all that has enabled us to ask questions. Like who am I? Why am I here? What is the purpose of? It'll is report. Is, sort of spiritual guiding force out now. and. I believe part of being human is questioning a curiosity. Trying to find on says, but understanding that there are some answers that at least on this planet is life. Dislike full. We will not be able to answer. And I get. Paid. When Scientists will say, but we know how the NFL started start with the big bag. Yes. I'm sorry book for. Big Bang lease. So and you know fascinating more and more highly intellectual people most offensive signs, physicists and so on. On Francis Collins, he started off some agnostic. Then when he began unraveling the human genome, he changed completely and became a believer and all of these great brains have said there is no way that what's happened is just John's. At intelligence behind the universe is. What it is, who it is, probably what it is I, haven't the faintest idea, but I'm absolutely show that that is something. Seeking for that something. To being human. Well Jane. Goodall. Thank you so much It's a real honor to speak with you and a pleasure and I was very glad as I was getting ready for this been in your presence physically those years ago because I can imagine you and. Your, thank you for all the gifts you've given to. Really, than I've loved talking to you and I was just going to depress my video, got a billion press. So I can see you. Oh, I, don't actually I only have sound. Sorry I'm sad about that. But maybe in this strange world we inhabit, we will physically be in the same place again, one of. Not. Okay. Good I'm glad to hear you say that. You can see the icon see. Rusty. That he is special. Special. Here. Is Mum Cookie people in my life and David Greybeard. Greybeard what's up here, but he's GonNa each case. He's in the house. Okay It, was me talking to you. Thank you so much. Jane Goodall is the founder of Jayme Goodall Institute, which has a presence in more than thirty countries. She's been the subject of many films and documentaries including Jane Goodall. The hope and her books include in the shadow of man and reason for hope a spiritual journey. Special. Thanks this week to Sumantha Bacher and Orion magazine for making this conversation with Jane. Goodall happen an edited version of it will appear at a Ryan online in the fall. The being project is Chris Cagle. Lily Percy. Laurent. Aaron Cosco Kristen Lynn Eddie Gonzalez. Billion Vote Lucas Johnson Suzanne early, Zach Rose Siri Grassley. Colleen check Cristiano Mortell Julia. Cycle. Gretchen handled and. The ongoing project is located on Dakota, land are lovely. Theme Music is provided and composed by Zoe. And the last voice that you hear singing at the end of our show is. Cameron. Kinghorn. On being is an independent nonprofit production. The on being project, it is distributed to public radio stations by WNYC studios. I created the show at American public media. A funding partners include the FETZER institute helping to build the spiritual foundation for a loving world. Find them at Fetzer DOT, Org. Kelly. 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