Juliette Gordon Low
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I really I was a campfire girl when I lived outside of Seattle when I was little, and then we moved to Florida and the only option was girl scouts, and I may have made some disparaging comments about how I thought my uniform was a lot sharper than the girl scout wins, but that's because I was. Because I was not nice child. Just like, I I was a brownie. And that was as far as I got because for reasons, I really cannot put my finger on at this point. You know, almost forty years later, I didn't enjoy brownies as much and I was also in four H. And when I was getting ready to move up in school. My mom was like we should pick one of these two activists and I picked for H rather than going on farther with the girl scout. Gotcha. But anyway, that was probably smarter than what I did. Which was always just add more activities. I do is an adult. Yeah. My mom was the person who was responsible for all of the driving when it came to these kinds of activities. So I think this was largely my mom wanting one less thing to have to ship us all the way from way out in the country to slightly less far out in the country. Anyway, we're having this conversation because today we have the extremely frequent listener request of Juliette Gordon low who was the founder of the girl scouts of the United States of America. And when I say, a frequent listener request, this is just from the last couple of years of Email and our Twitter mentions, and it has come from Becky Camille, Sarah, Katie, Anna, Allison, Lindsay, Nikola and Amy. And I know farther back in the world of things we can no longer really search easily. There are other people who have asked to talk about her aside from the fact that so many people have asked us to talk about Juliette Gordon, low really a lot of things about her life surprised me and are very different from what I imagined her life to be like before getting into this. If the only pictures of her you have seen are the ones from later in her life in her scout uniform, she looks like an almost totally different person from her pictures from her youth. So I was very intrigued by all that. Juliette Gordon, low was born Juliet McGill Kinzie, Gordon on October thirty first eighteen sixty she was nicknamed daisy. And that's still the name that she's known by in much of the world of girl scouts as well. As by some of her biographers and her parents were William Washington, Gordon, the second and Eleanor Kinzie, Gordon who is known as Nellie. Juliet was the second of six children her siblings were Eleanor Alice. William mabel. And Arthur the family were committed a Piscopo Younes who attended Christ's church in Savannah, Georgia. The Gordons were a really good example of how one family could have complicated loyalties during the US civil war. Williams family had been in Georgia for generations and part of their wealth came from the cotton industry. So in addition to having an enslaved workforce at the Gordon home, their income was coming from slave labor. But then Melis family, conversely went all the way back to the founders of Chicago, Illinois, and in general, they were opposed to slavery and some of them were dedicated abolitionists so in very broad strokes. Milley's and Williams families were on opposition sides of the war the men in elis family served in the US military, while Williams served the confederacy, but at the same time, it was more complicated than that Nellie gradually came to believe that the war was necessary for southern independence and that southern independence itself was necessary. But even then after savannah, surrendered she entertained people like US general William to comes to Sherman at the family, home, Juliet of courses, only six months old when the war started. So she was too young to really understand what was going on for most of it as she became a toddler though. She was just fiercely loyal to her father. And sure that whatever he was doing was the right thing Nellie, Gordon, and the children went to Chicago for the last few months of the war. And by the time, they arrived, the whole family was malnourished. Juliet was also extremely sick with what her mother described as brain fever. And this was kind of a catch all term that included serious illnesses like meningitis and encephalitis Juliette eventually recovered from this illness, but she was chronically ill for most of her life. She contracted malaria sometime in her youth, and she was prone to erase an ear infections that could cause her to temporarily lose summer all of her hearing ear infections and her malaria tended to recur. Anytime she was exhausted or stressed or sick with something else. And she was also prone to abscesses including in her ears and then later on in her life. She developed gout once the civil war was over the Gordons returned to savannah, and from that point overall, Juliet had a happy childhood the family had to adjust to a new economy one that did not rely on enslaved labor, but Juliet was not really conscious of this shift. She was accident prone and eccentric, which led her family to start calling her crazy daisy her eccentricity also carried over to her written correspondence, which tended to have so many spelling mistakes that historians have speculated that she actually had a learning disability. There scans of a lot of her letters online. And in addition to there being a lot of mistakes. There's a lot of talk about the mistakes, and how many there are she also had a very kind and generous heart she and her friends like to put on plays and sell tickets to them to raise money for charities including some that were set out to help native Americans. One of her favorite place to stage about Mary Queen of Scots, another of her childhood projects included, a short lived club called helping hands which was meant to help people who are less fortunate than they were. But this club had to be disbanded during an epidemic of yellow fever. You could describe some of her childhood work, as it's the thought that counts, some of Julius family called helping hands helpless hands. Because for example, they wanted to make close to donate to a family in need. But they really didn't know how to do that. So the results of their labours were not really wearable Ida. Yeah. They were trying to make closer people. And they they didn't really know how to so starting when she was twelve Juliet was educated in a series of boarding schools. Two of them in Virginia one in New Jersey. And then a French finishing school called Mademoiselle Charbonnier a in New York City, she made several very close friends in these schools, including abbey lipid, and Mary gale Carter who were very best friends for the rest of her life. She also studied art in New York, including sculpture and painting, and she became very good at painting onto China in eighteen eighty tragedy struck the Gordon family, Juliet seventeen year old sister Alice died of scarlet fever, the entire family was grief stricken, Julius older sister. Eleanor was away in Europe. So since Juliet was than the oldest daughter at home she had to keep things running. While her mother was consumed with grief. Juliet also tried to keep her chin up and sued the rest of the family's heartbreak that on its own would have just been. A huge load to try to shoulder, but to make things even harder Juliet's mother interpreted her sort of soldiering on as evidence that she wasn't all that sad about her sister Nellie accused Juliet of being selfish and shallow and Juliet knew that in her own words, quote, there is more than one kind of sorrow and that born in silence is not less genuine because it is not always seen. But Juliette also did worry that maybe her sister Alice had died thinking that she didn't love her. I feel like this whole thing is like evidence of how grief can just mess with people. Like, oh, yeah. I'm sure her mom also was seeing that through veil of her own grief, and like did not have the magnanimity of heart available to be like, oh, this is just how she's doing it. Yeah, trickle, and they had they they sort of butted heads a lot for for pretty much all of of Juliet's life. They had personalities that conflicted with each other. A lot of times in ways that could just come off as seeming. They were angry at each other. But it was really more like they had different ways of approaching the world. Oh, the misunderstandings of family. But in the midst of all of this emotional turmoil. Juliet became acquainted with William McKay. Low his family had previously been the Gordon's neighbors in savannah, but they had moved to England in eighteen sixty seven because Juliet's father brother, and now love interest were all named William. We're gonna call this William by his nickname of billowed just to try to simplify a little bit. Especially because we're going to get the parts where multiple Williams are in the same room. Billow was very handsome, and he listened to olive Juliet's grief about her sister and her frustrations with her relationship with her mother. Juliet compared these conversations with him to her most intimate friendships with her girlfriends in boarding school, less than three months after Alice's death. Juliet was deeply in love with billow. And she was also shamed of those feelings because she thought that she should really still be morning her sister and not finding joy with a young man on top of that. She knew that her family was not going to approve of this match the Gordons were very well off. But they also valued hard work and billow did not he was set to inherit a massive fortune when his father died, and he had no plans to work at all. And billows family wouldn't have approved of Juliet either billows father had made it clear that he did not want a son to marry an American or married. During his own lifetime at all. So Juliet and billow courted in secret. They wrote to each other after Bila went back to England. But eventually he stopped writing to her and at first Julia just thought something must have gotten misdirected or lost in the mail. But as time went on with still no more letters. She became determined to go see him and find out what was going on to that end in eighteen eighty two Juliet convinced her parents to let her take a tour of Europe as her older sister had done, but really she was on a secret mission to find billow and get him to answer for his behavior. And we're going to talk about all of that after we I pause for a little sponsor break. -nology truth brought to you by cold. Truth. You will certainly send any text about your supervisor to your supervisor. Let's Janet's fangs did she lose a bet. With a weed whacker? Oh, Sint, wait. No, no truth. It's so easy to switch and save on car insurance at geiko dot com. Janet, I think my phone was hacked or something. Go fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percents or more. So that earlier the Gordon's and the lows had been neighbors back in savannah, they were family friends. So it was reasonable for Juliet go call on billows sisters while she was in England. She did do that she paid them. Visit. She did not tell them why. She was really there. It turned out that Bill was not home that day, but Juliet did manage to take a look around the house and find his room his mirror was covered with letters and sketches that she had sent to him, but not from anything from her more recent correspondence, she concluded that billows father had discovered their letters and was keeping her mail from him. Juliet went on her tour of the European continent. But she was driven to distraction by the thought of seeing billow the whole time. She finally resigned herself to the idea that it just wasn't going to happen shortly before she returned home. She sent him a telegram that said goodbye, I sail on the gala, but then an address. Turn of events just before the ships set sail. One of the crew brought her telegram of her own, and it was from billow who revealed that he had been looking for her as well. This is such a good movie moment, and it did lift Juliet spirits, but not for long. She decided that a relationship with Bill just could not work out both of their families of directed. And on top of that Bill was going to spend the next few years studying at Oxford. Julia though, I mean, she was a an available attractive lovely young woman and on the way home. She caught the eye of another passenger on the ship. This was a captain who fell for her completely. But as soon as she realized that he was serious about her Juliet rejected him because if she could not have billow, she did not want anyone she had made her formal debut into society and after getting home again she received other proposals as well. And she turned all of them down two years later, one of Juliet's sisters got married and that brought all of her feelings about Bill O back to the surface. She. Came up with another reason to go abroad this time to visit her school friend Mary. But once again Juliet's real motive was to try to see below she left in may of eighteen eighty four two years after deciding to give billow up and four years after having met him in the first place, even though she was there to visit Mary Juliet, accepted an invitation to stay with the low sisters. And of course, this was because she hoped it would let her run into their brother this time this worked Juliet and billow confessed their loved each other in person. And then once again, they decided because of all those reasons from two years ago that still existed not to pursue it. Juliet reunited with Mary's family in Scotland, and they were a little annoying to learn what had been going on with that visit to the lows and before she went back to the United States. Juliet paid the lows yet another visit while she was there. She and below saw one another again, and then the two of them decided in spite of all of those lodge. Michael reasons that they had previously decided against it to actually try to be together about six months later in January of eighteen eighty five the air pain that had been troubling Juliet off and on for much of her life became really cute. She went to a specialist who tried to procedure involving silver nitrate, and there were some complications. And that led to even more pain and the loss of most of her hearing in that ear Billah was visiting at the time. And he was there for Juliet as she went through a long series of procedures and visits to specialists all to try to repair the damage to her ear, and this was what led Juliet's father William to alter his opinion about whether billow was right for his daughter. Juliet was in pain and felt terrible about this whole situation not just because of her health, but also because a lot of blame was being thrown around about exactly whose fault, the situation was billow boosted her spirits, and William reluctantly agreed to give the couple his blessing Williams blue. Came with some conditions, though, billow had to live within his financial means the couple needed to spend at least six months of each year in savannah and billows father. Andrew had to agree that Billaud would continue to have his financial support. There was just no way that William was going to allow his daughter to get married if there was a chance that her husband might wind up cut off from his inheritance for some reason, which would have left him with no way of supporting her. Finally, William Andrew finish their negotiation for the marriage which included a year long engagement starting when Bill O headed back to England in February eighteen eighty six but what none of the Gordons really new at this point was that Bilas reputation back in London would have been considered scandalous in savannah. He ran in the same circles as Edward Albert also known as birdie prince of Wales whose life was full of fairs and scandals the Gordon's and their friends all knew about the reputation of the prince of Wales. They didn't know that billow was connected to that same circle, and was regarded in kind of the same way, they got a glimpse of it. During the engagement, though when billow placed a bet on a horse race that was so big that it was covered in the press, the Gordons were livid and Juliet tried to downplay the bet as something that he had placed on behalf of several other people and not something that was entirely his own money, then on June twenty-seventh, eighteen eighty six billows father died he came into his whole inheritance, Juliet and billowed decided not to put off the wedding in light of Andrew's death. And they got married on December twenty first eighteen eighty six after the wedding as guests were showering the couple with rice, Juliet got a grain of rice stuck in her ear that same ear that had gone through all of those complications the year before after the honeymoon when she hadn't been able to dislodge it. Juliet went to the doctor to try to have the rice removed and all of this damaged her ear even further and she lost. Almost all of her hearing in it. She also contracted bronchitis. And spent most of the first months of her marriage too sick to even climb the stairs in their home in early may eighteen eighty seven Juliet started losing the hearing and her other ear as well. She consulted a doctor who suggested that it was a sympathetic reaction to her previous hearing loss. She saw a number of specialists and tried different treatments over the rest of her life. But none of them ever restored her hearing. It was something that sometimes she would improve as maybe ear-drum healed up a little, but then a lot of times it will get worse again, her hearing loss didn't affect her speech. But she couldn't always understand people when they were speaking to her. Julia had a really hard time adjusting to being gentleman's wife at first they didn't have a permanent home of their own. And they were leasing large states in England and Scotland billow finally bought a fifty five acre state in Warwickshire in eighteen eighty nine which they expanded to include twenty bedrooms. And huge stables. Juliet really loved finally having a permanent place of her own. It also made it easier for her to be a little philanthropic Bill was really opposed to the idea of dedicating herself to philanthropy full-time. He seemed to think that it would lead her to judge his life ADL nece, so she tended to do smaller things like visiting people in need and donating vegetables and flowers from their gardens. Juliette really wanted to be useful though. And she finally got the chance to do that during the Spanish American war. Her mother back during the civil war had hated being separated from her father. So Nellie had made the decision that she would accompany William to Florida where he was going to be serving in the military, and she was going to start a convalescent home for soldiers there. Juliet traveled back to the United States. She joined her mother in Florida and together they cared for men who were recovering from illnesses like malaria, measles and typhoid Juliet loved having me. Meaningful work to do. And when her father was transferred Nellie plan to go with him. Juliet volunteered to stay behind and continue on with the convalescent home. But then the war ended in August of eighteen ninety eight and that home was closed down not long after this. Juliet had another major change in her life, and we will get to that. After another quick sponsor break. It listeners if you have not heard I'd like to tell you about a show called dressed the history of fashion with more than seven billion people in the world. Most of us have something in common, which is that every day. We get dressed join fashion historians abra Callahan and Cassidy Zachary twice a week as they explore. The who what when and why of what we wear fashion history is about more than pretty close. This is the podcast for fashion and non fashioned lovers alike. It's a show that really shines light on why the clothes. We wear matter. The history of fashion as a history of capitalism, and culture and powered annex gender relations. It's inseparable from gender and sexual identity, and politics and religion and even advancements in technology in addition to going behind the scenes of the most highly anticipated fashion and dress exhibitions of the year that I've earth range of topics includes everything from gender bending to cult fashion, the more, strange and obscure the better full episodes drop on Tuesday. As and starting in season to April and Kathy answer your questions and their fashion history mystery, Minnesota every Thursday, find dressed the history of fashion on apple podcast iheartradio app, or wherever else you get your podcasts. Julia marriage to billow was really struggling by the turn of the twentieth century. Juliette had surgery to remove abscesses and cysts from her abdomen. And this may have affected her reproductive system as well, regardless of whether that was a factor. She and billowed did not have any children, and Juliet really blamed herself about this. And she felt a lot of shame about it was I mean, there's still some stigma about people who want to have children and can't today. This was worse when she was living, and she she have really felt ashamed of the fact that she had not had any children as their marriage went on billow spent more and more time away from home and his expenses became really extravagant including spending a lot on betting and on racehorses billow also became involved with another woman named Anna bridges Bateman. And it's not clear exactly when that relationship started. But Juliet hosted Anna at their home. At least once not knowing that she and Bill were having an affair, Anna also stayed in their home after Juliet did know about that affair, but Juliet felt like she couldn't really say anything about it by nineteen one. Juliet was talking about pursuing a divorce, and this was something that English law made very difficult. The most logical option was to seek divorce on the grounds of infidelity was clearly what was going on. But she didn't really want to do this because publicizing to the world that her husband had an affair and billowed did not want her to do it either. Because it would have meant publicizing to the world who he was having an affair with in nineteen two they separated by that fall. Juliet was realizing that she was happier without below than she had been with him and Juliet started visiting family and friends and traveling more after a while Juliet started hearing rumors that Bill was drinking heavily and that has health was increasingly poor. He died on June eighth nineteen. Five at which point he and Juliet were still separated, but not divorced. He had requested for Anna to handle his funeral arrangements, which the family agreed to and he had also re written his will leaving almost everything to Anna, including what was supposed to be Juliet's annual allowance with the help of billow sisters. Juliet successfully contested, the will ama- still got a sizeable inheritance. But Juliet got a lump sum an annuity and the lows house in savannah, it was enough for her to be comfortable less than a year later, an old family friend named Archie hunter proposed to her. But she turned him down describing herself as too old and deaf to try again, especially since she was not in love with him. She had a lot of like just on love that guy. He seems to be in semi. But I'm not that into him for the next several years after her strange husband's death. Juliet traveled the world, she visited relatives. And she did some charitable work. Work and a lot of ways she was enjoying herself. But she still wanted something to do as always she wanted to be useful. But she couldn't really find a cause that really just captured her heart this lack of direction changed basically overnight when she met General, Sir. Robert Bayden Powell in nineteen eleven Bayden Powell was regarded as a war hero for his leadership during the siege of Mafikeng in the Bewers. He was also the founder of the boy scouts. I have that siege on my list of potential future episode because of course, it is a lot more complicated than that. And Bayden Powell is not universally regarded as a hero, depending on who you're talking to. But we've also had to the latte of nineteenth and twentieth century lately. So it may be on like a little farther down the road. So the his being the founder of the boy scouts makes sound as though founding the boy scouts with something. He intentionally set out to do. But really it was. Almost an accident during his career with the British army Bayden Powell wrote a couple of books about scouting. They were meant to teach military men about reconnaissance and about being a soldier. And then when he got back to Britain after serving in the Boer wars, he was surprised to discover that groups of boys had been using these books to organize themselves into little scouting patrols often with their own names for the patrol and their own uniforms at the time British society was concerned about whether boys and young men were self reliant enough, and whether British citizens were adequately prepared from a military perspective. So people started calling for Bayden Powell to formalize these patrols and the result of that was the boy scouts. And of course, there were girls who were interested in scouting as well in some girls had formed their own patrols already or head tried to join in with the boys, but Bayden Powell and others thought that it was best to separate these groups by gender. So he enlisted his. Agnes to start the corresponding girl guides when Juliette Gordon low met, Robert Bayden Powell and learned about the scouting movement that was it at the age of fifty one low had found her life's work scouting combined. So many traits that had been central to her life. And her worldview, she had always wanted to be helpful. She had a strong sense of civic duty. She loved the outdoors, including hiking and hunting, some of the most important relationships in her life were friendships with other girls now women that she had made when she was young her religious, faith, and her compassion and her idea that childhood should be fun and happy it was all right there in the scouting movement. She and Bayden Powell began working together within the scouting movement in Britain in nineteen eleven lo- helped establish to girl guy patrols in Scotland. And one in England then in nineteen twelve she invading Powell traveled across the Atlantic to bring the scouting movement. To the United States. It's clear that there was an attraction between the two of them. And according to some accounts at one point while they were working together in the UK. He proposed her but on that voyage to New York Bayden Powell became secretly engaged to another passenger named olive Saint Clair Soames. We don't really know how low felt about this. She found out along with the rest of the world when it was formally announced more than six months later once she got back to savannah, low called her cousin, Nina Anderson, Pape and said come right over I've got something for the girls of savannah and all America, and we're going to start it tonight, and they got to work establishing Savannah's first girl guides patrol, and although a lot of things about this patrol have become part of girl scout lower including exactly when they had their first meeting who their first members were amd that one of Juliet's nieces was the first to be enrolled, the documentation of those first few months is pretty fuzzy regardless. Oh, there were several girl guide patrols in savannah, including one at the savannah, female orphan asylum. Low particularly wanted the girl scouts to be a positive force in the lives of girls who were living in poverty. So she made a special effort to make sure that patrols were established for them and participating was affordable. Those first patrols in savannah, often, included Catholic, Protestant and Jewish girls together. But in general, the patrols were separated by social class. Organizers worried that upper-class parents would prohibit their daughters from participating if less affluent girls were included in the same patrol, and in savannah, they were also segregated by race separate patrols established for African American girls, including one that was led by one of the Gordon families. Household staff Juliet's family was happy to see that she had found something to occupy herself. And that it was clearly making her so happy, but at the same time, they also remembered her being quote, crazy daisy. And the group that they nicknamed the helpless hands. So they really thought Juliet might make a mess of this whole thing or just lose interest. But the opposite happened girl guides continued to grow in nineteen twelve Juliet started contacting the leaders of similar organizations for girls encouraging them to become part of the girl guides. It was clear that only one organization could be viewed as the sister organization to the boy scouts and Juliet wanted that to be the girl guides. So she tried to get the girl pioneers, the campfire girls and other organizations to join her this was not altogether successful. And sometimes it became outright acrimonious, low had an ongoing dispute with Linda beard who had established the girl pioneers in nineteen twelve and Clara visitor lane. Had also formed a group called the girl scouts of America in Chicago. And she went on to accuse low of stealing her idea and the name for it. But Juliette, Gordon, Liu persisted. She carried on. On after her father died in nineteen twelve after she learned about Robert Bayden Powell secret engagement, and after other women she recruited to help moved onto different things. She also traveled back and forth between the US, and the UK helping the movement in Europe and bringing new ideas and techniques back to the US with her. She also focused on taking this movement national in the United States and to that end. She changed the name from girl guides to girl scouts, which is something. A lot of people did not want her to do at all including Robert Baden Powell. She did though eventually convince him to approve of the change though, also established a national headquarters for the girl scouts in Washington DC, and it started growing into a formal organisation with the professional paid staff in nineteen thirteen the first US specific girl scout handbook was published called how girls can help their country as all of this was going on lowest continuing to struggle with her health all of the same. Illnesses and conditions that had been part of her life. So far continued to be present. She also underwent radium treatment for gout in the nineteen teens and experienced ongoing back pain from an injury. None of this stopped her work though. She kept crossing the Atlantic and recruiting leaders and raising money and evangelizing about the scouting movement by nineteen fourteen. It was essentially a fulltime job in nineteen fifteen. Not directly connected to scouting low was awarded US patent one one two four nine to five liquid container for use with garbage cans or the lake which was basically a folding pattern for a sheet of waterproof paper that could be used in conjunction with garbage Cam to hold liquid and disposed of along with its contents. She was also awarded a design patent for the tree foil design of the first girl scout badge, I guess. This could really be tangentially connected to scouting. Because it reminds me of the kinds of trash cans. We would have at Cam. Lows mother died in February of nineteen seventeen. And by then World War One had been going on for nearly three years and girl scouts had been flourishing as groups of girls dedicated themselves to the war effort, they were raising money and rolling bandages and working with the Red Cross and generally trying to be of service there were of course, plenty of administrative headaches and growing pains throughout all of this. And there had been concerns that scouting was going to cause girls to become too masculine or two headstone, but in general by the end of World War One the girl scouts were recognizable all across the US, and generally were associated with being helpful kind and respectful and then by the nineteen twenties. People had started to see girl scouts as an alternative to the flapper lifestyle. Biographers Stacey cordray described it as quote the antidote to flappers scouting advocates. Also viewed the movement as a force for world peace because children around the world were participating in an organization. That had a focus on duty and service and common goals. No matter what location. They were in all of this help to keep the organization going when those immediate wartime needs over throughout all of this girl scout organization occupied an interesting place. In terms of social issues often at tried to remain politically neutral, for example, the organization did not take a formal position on the issue of women's suffrage. But at the same time in some ways, it was more progressive than other similar organizations when many organizations band, black members in any capacity. Some of the first patrols in the north were integrated and troops for African American girls existed in the south almost from the beginning. The first troupe for native American girls was established in nineteen eighteen although there were almost certainly native girls involved in scouting before that in nineteen twenty two. The first Latina group was established in Houston, Texas, and in nineteen twenty three at a time when disability was. Far more visibly stigmatized than it is in the US today. The organization decided that scouts with disabilities would be eligible to earn the golden eaglet which was its highest honor. And this was something that low argued for strenuously as she was making those arguments. Juliette Gordon, low was also being treated for breast cancer, which may have been connected to her earlier radium treatments by this point. She had stepped down as president of the girl scouts taking the role of founder and focusing on expanding scouting internationally. She told almost no one about her illness, and she continued working even as she got sicker developed lead poisoning because of one of her treatments. Juliette Gordon, low continued to work for the international scouting movement until her death on January seventeenth nineteen twenty seven at the age of sixty six by that point the girl scouts had one hundred sixty eight thousand members and had held national and international conferences and established camps for girls the girl scouts. Ted move from homemade uniforms that varied from one group to another two standard uniforms that could be purchased and troops. Had also started selling cookies to raise money troops had been established all across the United States including Alaska and Hawaii, which weren't states yet and importer Rico. Juliette Gordon low is one of only three Americans to be awarded the silver fish, which is the highest honor in girl guides. She earned that award in nineteen nineteen and honors and awards continued after her death in nineteen forty four US liberty ship was named the SS Juliette low. Juliette Gordon Liu has also been commemorated on a stamp and had schools named after her amd been inducted into the national women's hall of fame in Seneca falls. Her birthplace was registered as a national historical landmark in nineteen sixty five and a federal building complex was named after her in nineteen eighty three in twenty twelve. She was posthumously awarded the presidential medal of freedom. Then today. Of course, the girl scouts of the United States, America's still exists. There are two point five million members, including about seven hundred fifty thousand adult members and leaders and man those cookies and cookies. I'm not gonna lie. I did not imagine that somebody who started an organization that has so much focus on being self reliant. And supporting other girls would have spent so much of her young adult life chasing after a boy like that. Just surprised me a little Nali. It shouldn't though I might have done the same thing if I had been her place. Yeah. Totally. I mean, I was like one of those kids that was raised by dad who was very much like from the time. I was little like you gotta take care of yourself all the time. But I still would have you know, chased after a voyage imagine. I wish it had been a boy that was more. The heart wants what it wants Teresi. Yeah. Do you have a little bit of listener mail yet? Is this firm Janine, and it's it's related to this podcast, which just has a completely completely coincidental. Connection to another recent podcast. So Janine says I'm quite behind on your podcast. So I just listened to the episode from back in February on Mary. Winston Jackson and was delighted to hear. She was a girl scout leader, I am also a girl scout leader and was just so excited and moved to hear about her work mentoring girls, and especially in integrating the council's in her area. I was not surprised that she continued to mentor young people throughout her life. I think one of the most rewarding parts of being a girl scout leader is the opportunity to mentor, girls and young women. And I think Jackson would have agreed with me. I just talked to my daisy true about courageous and strong women this week as we reviewed the courageous and strong part of the girl scout law, I was sadly unfamiliar with Mary Winston Jackson before listening to your episode. Owed says she did not feature in the discussion. But you can bet she will next time. We talk about it. Thanks so much for the work. You do might agrees are in history and related subjects. And I appreciate the research. Put into the show in the source lists you attach at the end keep up the good work, Janine and Janine. Also sent us cat pictures, which we always appreciate her cats are a tabby named walnut and a black one named Hildegard, of course, named for Hildegard von being, and I was delighted by all of that in delighted to see these cats. So thank you Janine, if you'd like to write to us about this or any other podcast history, podcast how stuff works dot com. And then you can find all over social media at miss and history that is where you'll find our Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest and Instagram. You can't come to our website, which is missed in history dot com where you will find show notes for all the Holly. And I have worked on together a searchable archive of every episode ever. And that's where we will have the information about any upcoming shows that we have out in the. The world. 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