Wednesday 11/20/19 - The Disappearance Of Jimmy Hoffa
All right bank. Today is Wednesday November Twentieth Chicago Dog Walk Guests the day the support to episode in some ways. Yeah this story. I'd say it's up to it's weird because 'cause usually we just stop in the middle of this is actually picked back up. We went home and we kind of did our home mortgage. We're back again. It's a lot of information so much information. Were back with Jimmy Jimmy Hoffa this time. It's not the rise of him. It's not the story. I mean it is story but this is more about the disappearance and what the hell happened to which who knows but Before we in any of that I do WanNa talk about Yamaha What this is like a running joke in the office you have like a five S. five maybe a four allegedly who knows what kind of phone you have but like sometimes plug choose phone in to do like a conference call and it'll just like blackout and we'll get like you know like maybe one of those updates said he should have gone on like years ago? 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It's it's it's like a must have for any office. Yeah it really is a nice a nice little feature there so where we left off. We kind talks about how he went to prison for. Jerry fraud was it yeah. Jury tampering intentioned fraud. So those are the two things they had a whole squadron out to try to get Jimmy Hoffa and they eventually landed landed on those two. Things are kind of set up a sting operation he appealed the appeal lasted three years and then he finally ended up in prison. He got a thirteen year sentence in federal prison so he goes to prison. Thirteen years there and part of the story like a big kicker here on the disappearance S. He's in prison with this guy. Tony Provenzano Yup Tony Pro. Yeah so Tony Perot. And so he's in there with him and he's a captain of the Genovese family and he's also one of the vice presidents of the teamster teamster so I think they had like a ton of vice presidents. You know look around the country but he was one of them and that goes back to what we talked about yesterday where Autho would take these. You know in part of his dealings with the Mafia and part of the agreement was they were going to have high ranking positions for these different mafia people. And then you know obviously with Hoffa in prison and somebody has to be running the teamsters and Hoffa's part of his agreement or part of his sentencing was allowed to keep his title as president of the teamsters but he appointed an acting president who has the highest ranking senior vice president. which is this Guy Frank Fitzsimmons okay? Frank Fitzsimmons he and he just kind of thinks she's Fitzsimmons is almost like a not just a guy. He wasn't like someone who is really going to take the teamsters union and run with it like. He was very comfortable that he was going to post back from fitzsimmons right. Well that was part of the reason that Hoffa Hoffa love power okay. He loved being in power so he wanted to try to pull the strings for the teamsters while he was still in prison and that would make Fitzsimmons a puppet and that is Kinda why he picked Fitzsimmons because he thought that he would be able to Kinda just still run things even from inside of a jail. Cell Shaw Fitzsimmons is a guy who takes over for Hoffa and that Tony Pro he also had teamsters ties to right. Yes yeah he was he was a mobster and he he was a vice president of the teamsters but he went to jail for pension fraud as well. Okay so he he there in the same Federal Prison in Pennsylvania together together. So they're they're buddies in prison. They knew each other before. And everybody's at the start of their sentencing. They're they're Kinda pals in prison. Okay so he's doing thirteen years And then and I don't know where he gets out of jail. How did he get out of jail? Well he got another presidential part so it was like again. We talked about Eisenhower. You mentioned him. The Kennedy is. We're all over him. And then Richard Nixon who. This is a nineteen seventy-one now so I think he served less than half of his original sentence. got a presidential pardon. Basically because Nixon was gearing up for the seventy two election and wanted to have a more of a stronghold on the blue collar vote so that was kind of the deal so Hoffa agrees to this part and thank you very much gets out of jail. He once he gets out he finds is out the FITZSIMMONS. Who now he himself has kind of been enjoying his freedom and is running The teamsters a little bit differently than Hoffa had intended. He he set up like this thing with with the government where Hoffa couldn't really there's a condition attached. He couldn't run for reelection of his presidency. Zia The union until nineteen eighty. So that was like Oh like he and he didn't find that out until after he got out so he was like. Oh what the fuck like I agree to this and Fitzsimmons. Kind of set me up to take me out of power and that was key because like we said Fitzsimmons had kind of taken the it to even further links with the mafia Than Hoffa ahead ever intended so they had like kind of the Mafia had unfettered access basically to the pension fund so huge huge money at their disposal. The funds worth over a billion dollars dollars at this point and Fitzsimmons was kinda strategically removing guys. Who are loyal to Hoffa and replacing with his own guys so there was like a real power struggle inside the I.? B. T. and then also with the Mafia guy that's such a guy who likes power. He's not happy with just being free. He wants to be back in charge he wants to he never. I never felt good about it so he got. He Got Mad When he was hearing whispers of how the I. B. T. was running while he was in prison and it got it and that was something that kind of drove all of us? Steak between he and Tony Pro because of Tony pro his you know. He's a captain for the Genovese family. He's fucking love and Fitzsimmons. Loves him like yeah. Here's all the money you want. Here's all the power you want you guys you won't make. It like Shell. Corporation for the Mafia and and Hoffa basically kind of made it known that. Hey once I get out things are gonNA roll back like we're GONNA go back. You're not gonNA have this access like I'm still in charge like this is my organization. I built it. It's going to run the way I want to run it and the response from Tony Pros basically fuck you. So this is while they're still in prison so now they this rivalry is heating up even like inside of you know inside the federal prison walls. Yeah so a couple interesting notes as well as is that the teamsters union did back Nixon that year who was a Republican which is unheard of and as well as he received a pension payout of one point seven seven million dollars a lump sum which was like unheard of his right. So like Jimmy. Hoffa was like well on his way to just live in a nice Whatever life in Detroit but this is what he wanted? He wanted to be around his position. Back with the teamsters union but like you said the Fitzsimmons was kind of more tied up with the mob lobbied for them so they didn't want him to leave so they didn't want him to leave. And then you know the. I don't even know if it was a loyalty to Simmons as a person but they just knew that Hoffa you you know he would come back in one things done his way and he wasn't shy about saying that so you know he and then he can't even doubled down on his feud with Tony Pro. Basically blaming blaming Tony pro a moron. And saying you're the reason that I'm in jail to begin with and you know like all you guys are the ones that got me busted for pension fraud. I shouldn't even be doing this like you. Guys were sloppy about how you're using. The funds like draw drew attention to us. This is all your fault so now it's like finger pointing in addition to. We're not doing it this way anymore. And it did not sit well with the mafia okay. Then let's fast forward to the day. He went missing the day he disappeared. He had he had a two PM meeting with Tony Pro at Machos Red Fox. It was like a little wedding reception place yet. His son's wedding there was a place to launch get dinner. I don't like it just seemed like nice the way it's portrayed if you with a place that looks awesome. Yeah thank you took place to hang out in the Irishman. They showed in this. I don't know it just feels a real seven well and the the whole point of that meeting from Hoffa's perspective was that he wanted to squash the beef because he needed Tony Pro and he also knew that Tony Pros. It was not a guy that you want to be fucking around with because he had a long history of making people disappear where the bodies are never found is just mafia hits like like no one knows what happened to so they were friends before and then in nineteen seventy. Four HOFFA was like gearing up and he was like looking for support he went onto tony pro being like. Hey like I wanna be back in power. Can I have your support and Tony. Pros response was Fuck you I will rip. You're like like this is a quote. I will rip your guts out and kidnap your granddaughters so hard. No Hard No from Tony pro about supporting Hoffa but Hoffa like knew that he needed him so they went through an intermediate intermediary. This Guy Anthony Jack Loney Who was supposed to be at this lunch as well at the Red Fox he was a Detroit Guy and then the twenty pro is going to be there and then gone in the wind gone? And what's interesting too is. The meeting was at two PM. Like I said at the Mancha's Red Fox and Hoffa was known as a guy who didn't like anybody to be late right. He was very much Lombardi time here there. Fifty whatever Yep and what was weird to me is awful waited an hour and a half. Almost they saw him a payphone across the street he called his wife He. He said he'd be home by four. He waited a long time for these guys. So I don't know what that says but it it. It raised up a red flag to me. Because I know it's an important meetings. The Guy who can make you disappear. But they're still crazy anyway. It's a long well thinking. He probably knew anything. If it was any Tom. Dick or Harry off the street. He's probably like you know it's two fifteen. The menial said to him get the Fuck Outta here. I don't think you stand up Tony Pro. But he was mad he made a phone call like you said it made a phone call to his wife and also made a phone call supposedly to another friend of his you know asking if he had messages or anything like that so and then those were the last two times anybody had ever heard from okay so then that takes us into kind of some suss back some hearsay. Some who who is he with last like who seemingly did this to him. Who Pretty much killed him? Because I think a couple of years later they officially I like declared that. He's dead. Obviously yes so. He had been missing for seven years. So I think that's the laws nineteen eighty. So he disappeared. This nineteen seventy five July thirtieth nineteen seventy five. The last time anyone saw heard from and in Nineteen eighty-two he was declared legally dead and I do my prefaces. Listen anytime. There's a missing person anytime there's like like a murder case like there's a million things moving. There's a million suspects now amplify that when it's been forty plus years it's a mob guy. It's a union guy like show we're not gonNA get to every person who was kind of accused or any person who made a confession. But we're GonNa do our best so let's start with. Let's Frank Sharon okay. So that's that's that's the big one. Well why don't you lay it out if you have a better grip on him. The so Frank Sharon he He is the subject of the Irishman. He is the Irishman. He was only Iris. This guy to ever have kinda ties to the Italian mob He wrote a book called the hurt paint houses which is code for I heard murder people. you know. Scattered their blood on the wall whatever He in that book he detailed and he admitted that he killed Jimmy Hoffa right should be you know enough for people to be like. Oh sure like you know. That's if you're going to confess your bank killed a lot of people for these guys but a lot of people don't buy it well it was enough for the FBI to go investigate. And they went through and they went to like the house where he was supposedly murdered him and they dug up the floorboards and they found they found blood and they that house at the time of the supposed. Jimmy Hoffa murder was going on rented. It was just like a like a Mafia house that they like. You could plausibly. Just walks in you. You know nobody would be there. Kill guy but the blood on the on the floorboards did not match office does not DNA match This and also this Guy Frank Sheeran. He was friends with Hoffa for a long time too but he was like a known like you said a guy who paints houses did a lot outta house painting for the Buffalo Family which was at the time probably the most powerful Mafia family they were out of New York so It was it was one of those things and then you know the when when Hoffa disappeared they did all the things in nineteen seventy five the call the police called the you know the FBI got involved. They questioned people. They questioned Tony Pro and then this Anthony Jack Lonnie who supposedly you know going to meet with him that day. They both had like airtight alibis. So they tony pro said Hey I was playing cars Jersey all these people who can corroborate Jack Laney said he was getting a haircut. So it's like there are no no nobody no witnesses. This is in the to like possible suspects right off the bat have good alibis so it was just like there's just as it is a cold case from the word go and a big part is to get away from Sharon for a second here like you said those guys. Whoever they were with they kept talking about the time They kept talking about the time because they wanted that alibi. Oh by to let people know like Oh yeah two o'clock three thirty four PM. I remember I was with them and they kept saying that time so like of course tell them celebrate. They knew what they were doing. And that makes you think they had some type of influence in this but Frank Sharon why. I think people have problems with him confessing to the crime as he was is pretty he was pretty loose with the stuff he could fast too. I guess and I. That's what everything I've seen. was that they in listen. You're going to see it in the movie star. Like if you're if you don't want whatever there might be spoilers but there's no spoilers I said yes history is history exactly so he liked chartered a mini private plane to Detroit throughout Ohio. And then they said that that that's impossible I don't there's a lot of yeah. There's a lot of conspiracies into believing that Frank Sharon earn liars. Actually Dan Baldia. who was like Jimmy Hoffa expert? He is like on a crusade against the movie. And he's upset with the Niro and Scorsese because like he's you so like you so like stuck in the mud like hey. There's no way frank. Sharon did this in confess. Because he was dying he needed money he was broke. All I don't wow that's kind of a is trying to sell books. That's the background on why Sharon didn't do it. And then you have like you said there's reasonably that he may have done it. Yeah well well The other part of that is you know sharing like it or not. It was a Catholic right so he might have just been confessing like. Just get this off my chest fast like I did it. I am dying I am broke but I am also dying and I don't WanNa take this to my deathbed like that. That's the thing that happens too. So maybe maybe he did do it but you know like you said there. There are some details. That are a little fuzzy where it's like all Sheeran says who is in this car and there's no evidence of him being in like them picking him up at a certain car and then there's the NAF him found in a different car a car. Belonging this Guy Chuckie O'Brien So another Mafia Guy who knew all parties involved so it was like okay like wall then that is a major detail of Sheeran story. That doesn't quite line up because there's no detail in one long car that he supposedly took and there is DNA. In this guy. Chucky O'Brien's car so Chuckie O'Brien he was kind of like a guy who he was almost almost a doofus. I would say what the way they described it right. Yeah like he was just kind of And he just. He wasn't seen like the not the alibi on him. But the like the the discussion couldn't have been chuck. O'Brien is it. He was not a guy that you put out for this job right trusted yes right like this was a job that it would have been very tight slipped. Nominee people would have known in their best guys end of story. Right a guy like sharing. Yes a guy like Sharon not a guy like Chuck Bryant Right. So they're just the people find it hard to believe that they had any this guy anywhere near this and Chuckie. O'Brien has also just vehemently denied any involvement for fifty years or forty years. So it's also you know like so again like maybe I don't know why but I believe them but in that kind of backs it up to it's like if you're you're you have to this is not just maybe Chucky O'Brien's good enough for a normal mob hit. This is Jimmy Hoffa like like. We've talked about like this is a guy who received the presidential part this this guy who's been on national TV with you. Know other presidents I. It's it's insane like how well known and powerful. This guy was so it's not just so you know it's you like you said you'd better use your absolute best guys and and like you can't have big conspiracy 'cause people like the power and they like the credit and someone someone will have you know loose lips sink ships and that's how this thing goes down so you have to have somebody you can absolutely trust and Sharon was a guy that Russell Bufalino absolutely trusted. Yeah and people knew Jimmy Hoffa you know like people knew who he it's not like you could just couldn't make their worst supporters at the time for sure. A lot of the people didn't want him there here at the end when he had his most support at that time. Still in Detroit and it was in Detroit Michigan. You know Also the Detroit mob. I mean it's all title Newark but was there anything else that there was kind of. Yeah so I mean. There's a million theory so I don't if we want to hop onto another one but supposedly office traveling all the time he's in prison and his wife gets a little bit lonely so she actually has an affair. Allegedly now this is according to Guy Tarrant McShane and Terence McShane worked for the FBI and he also was Part of this board that was in charge of like Kinda rebuilding and fixing like like an anti corruption board of teamsters so like not he had. FBI information the also had some inside information and he wrote a book as well and he said that you know this was the thing that you know. HOFFA's wife Josephine had an affair with kind of a low level Mobster guy in Detroit Hafa finds out about it and he goes to like the Don on of the the head of the Detroit. Mafia's this Guy Torelli and it's really go. Listens to his story. Goes Okay and then he's just like wow like office completely we lost. It has no respect. Can't handle like his own wife can't handle like this again. This is another time it was like hey like take care of your your own problems yourself with your family and and so they just kind of lost you know the kind of started looking at him in a different light kind of way so now it's like like they already had problems with Hoffa. I think he's losing his grip lake totally that and they're worried that he's GonNa Start blabbing about how deep the connections between the Mafia and because it's it's like you're willing to tell me about problems with your wife. What else are you willing to say? So now they like now. They feel like they can't trust him To handle these problems and keep his mouth shut so they get kinda get worried and again. It's like goes back to the issue about the money like they still want access to that money. So now he becomes like an expendable and Person and kind of somebody that they just they just can't trust and it's also important in our. I'm sorry we didn't mention this already. He was already open or he was working with people to against them up wasn't wasn't he working with authorities. Well that was part of his case before that he was leaking stuff against both the I bt and the Mafia so like Hoffa's like playing every which way and like people they they know like the Mafia. Yeah and you know once you get in that situation you you're asking for trouble. Yeah you're you're toast toasted. That's the truth and Richard Kuklinski. If we want to go to another suspect if you WanNa talk about his situational yes so talk about another guy who the the mafia absolutely trust as a Hitman so he is another guy who ties to the The BUFALINI family The story goes oppose a he showed up to the Red Fox with Tony Pro and then there is like an unnamed driver driver and so the driver twenty pro sitting shotgun took Linski in the back with Hoffa and now Hoffa you know people all these stories with Hoffa getting into a car right because he just assumes that at the meeting location has been changed and he's like pissed off because they're late but like whatever. Let's let's go so he gets into the car and Twenty programs could Kalinski Signal bashes him in the head with job job. Breaker stabs them and then they pull off to the side of the road and throw them in a body bag. Put Him in the trunk and then they take that too. Is that the one they took to an incinerator raider. Yes that's the one that. Put them in a fifty five gallon. Oh yeah fifty. Five Gallon oil drum welded it shut and then buried it so that was like that was the story that that's where HOFFA ended up buried in oil drum then they actually because the FBI they had like some other case and somebody said they had information about the whereabouts of of of Of HOFFA and the Mafia found out about that supposedly they dug up that oil drum. Put it in the back of a car. Put the car through a compactor and shipped it to Japan so like to be recycled and used for other auto parts. So it's just like a steel scrap car with an oil drum containing Jimmy Hoffa's body audience and then the defense against that as they would never be dumb enough to send a body across fucking the ocean that and then also Hof is not a dummy. Either it's it's would be surprising because Hoffa didn't know Kuklinski part of the reason. Why the the Sheeran thing lines up is like he would get no car with sharing because he knows awesome entrust them in Delaware Union exactly so he knows that guy for a long time and you know he knows twenty pro but he knows twenty pro wants to kill him so if the story Aureus Cook Linski twenty pro and some unnamed guy another so to one of the guys wants to kill you and you don't know the other two HOFFA's probably not getting in that car so like that storage Kinda doesn't doesn't really hold water for me either But that is something that's out there and then it really just goes off the rails from there guys. I mean there's word that the mob owned a A place where you could cremate. People cremated them right after they killed them. There's word that he's buried on some old mobster farm And then what would then. There was one more giant in stadium. I mean there's there's all like he's buried under giant state the meadowlands. Yeah and then there There's other theories that he you know because he had ties the FBI and Like he got worried when they know nobody showed up for the meeting. He's like oh I'm really fucked that the F. B. I.. Picked him up and he just disappeared. The witness protection program like changes look and he just lived out his days under under a different name. Prizes like some Schmuck in Oregon in egg noodles and catch up you. You know like that kind of thing so that'd be kind of interesting. Yeah so like. That's a theory as well. So listen I know that was probably a lot to take in but if you plan on watching this movie next Wednesday the Irishman you like this stuff is needed. Because that's one of the things where I don't feel like they did a great job. It was kind of explaining all these people on what they did and who they were and they have three and a half hours to do so like they still needed more time to do it right like it wasn't it wasn't the writers or Scorsese Fault. It was just like it was so hard you know they they put it on Netflix. Could've made it a mini series. They could've made it like an eight part. You know our our apiece miniseries but absolutely cut off. Yeah Damn why didn't they do. They should have done that. Yeah yeah he's the Kennedy stuff is interesting to you know so they could have gone all the way back but town. If that was my one con it was that there was just too many people too many moving parts and watching this icon was able to piece together some stuff so I really think this show will help you like kind of watch. The movie next one's there. It's well if you WANNA watch the movie. What's kind of gave us a lot of information which was called killing or searching for Jimmy Hoffa killing Jimmy Hoffa on Amazon prime for free so that was a good one as well? There's that that's really one of the things I use those into another podcast called gone But yeah it was. It was an awesome unbelievable story. It's just it's one of those things where it's like. I can't believe how little I knew about it. I know so. I can't wait for the movie. Yeah we asked. So that's That's it that's it for this two-parter parter And Yeah thank you for listening. Bang Bang I was quite yet. two-part show we will see you tomorrow.