Data Driven Insight into Your Video Interview Process with Scott Sandland
This is the higher power radio. Show before we get started. Let's take care of little housekeeping. Hey did you see the recent survey that sixty nine percent of organizations transition to remote work in sub capacity as a result of kevin nineteen as we all know. A remote workforce requires a remote hiring process but the goals of hiring still remain the same to identify and hire the strongest talent. If you're struggling with this challenge criteria can help check out criteria corp dot com most advanced recruiting techniques. Land the most desirable talent your company to massive six six. This is the higher power radio show with. rick girard. look. I just need to hire someone to do work so we can get this product out. The door said peter a ceo of a new leaf funded startup. besides there's no way to really know if somebody fits into the company until you experience working together. This is not true at all your interview process win. Properly structured will give you the evidence to support making the right hire each and every time because as we all know one bad hire can destroy your company. Today we're talking about the power of digging deep on the right questions and utilizing ai to confirm your conclusions. I'm richard welcome to the higher power radio show. We share insights from top performing rebel entrepreneurs disruptors and industry experts like our guest today. Mr scott sandland is the founder and ceo of serano sierra. No i said. That's me eight times that i told you i was going to botch up. As our high that is the other variation of our name we get a lot cyrano. Dot scott is the former world's youngest hypnotherapist if you companies and a few decades later he is the ceo of a company focusing on artificial empathy and strategic linguistics as a former executive director and ceo of a mental health clinic longtime technologist. He has experienced leading purpose driven organizations and has been published in numerous peer reviewed journals psychology today forbes entrepreneurial magazine which is what makes scott perfect expert for today's topic. Scott welcome to the higher power radio show today. Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure to have you. We're going to discuss a couple of things we're talking about getting to the truth of who a person is especially in your video interviews. Because a lot of companies today are having challenges with video interviews and getting the right data out of him and when to talk about how to leverage to confirm your hiring decisions stomach flat. So i find today. Companies have an interview process. This really no better than a coin. Toss and bill process. It's fairly shallow. The asked common questions that are people are used to getting and it's centered around. How can you help me. It doesn't really have anything to do with. How can you help that person. It doesn't have anything to do with whether or not that person even feature cultural values at all. It's just what skills you bring the table. And how can you dot. Yes so you're looking at like a checklist which things you want to have happen. And you know the person you're interviewing obviously on guard and putting on a show and trying to be their best version of themselves but it's difficult for a person unless they're really putting in the effort to dig deeper in terms of the culture fit and the soft skills fit that person's going to bring to the job which really makes the difference on if they're a good higher or not. That's true and i find a lot of companies. Just don't know what the culture is sure. Especially if you're an entrepreneur near start up and you're trying to get work out the door. You have no idea so when i was the. Ceo of a mental health clinic the newport clinic at silver by newport harbor high school and we were doing a lot with at risk teens and stuff like that and drug rehab centers and we started during obamacare during that rollout when all of a sudden there was a ton of money in healthcare and all of a sudden there was just this flood if he will needing help that could now afford it so we were hiring as fast as we could and that meant we were looking at resumes and lists and okay. This is a person who is an md. We need a marriage and family therapist. This is a person who's a lcs. W we need one of those and they'd come in talked to him for a few minutes and we'd hire them and sometimes it worked out great and other times two weeks like oh. This is the worst decision. And how can we just schedule this person's hours away from my hours which are most of the hours so it's real easy especially when traction is kicking off and people are excited and busy. It's real easy to just say. Oh anybody with the skills is good enough. We just need someone who can do the job. That doesn't work no no. It doesn't work at all if it does work. It's because you got lucky totally that's it. Yeah what was your pain point that you realize. Hey look there's a little bit more to this than dot. So when i was doing that job i was hiring therapists and it was everywhere from psychotherapist life coach ever in between and like i said the soft skills were more important. Their ability to just connect with the clients and work on a team were way more important than their certifications in licensors said that again because that's really that's really an important point it was less about. How much training. They had less about which credentials they had and much more how they fit. And how well they could relate to the clients. We had a person that we hired who was on paper. She had a ton of boxes. She's intelligent woman. She's very talented. And i set her up. Gave her three clients the first day and she bombed all three clients all three clients. Said we want our money back and we're never coming back. Wow and she's a qualified person. She just did not connect with our customers even remotely and just okay. Well there it is. Were you able to capture any of evacuees. Those three clients walked never came back. That can destroy your business one bad if you'll end up with ten day and they were influential like i think back to the amount of money i lost that morning before lunch it was so much money for startup clinic that was bootstrapped and to have those people who's one of them was absolutely a local influential person and if she had headed out of the park we would have had our phone ringing for twenty more sessions by the end of the day and instead crickets and this ties route to wide. It's important company. One me starter. Why should i care about this really. I just have worked that. I need to get done because the wrong person that checks the boxes again. Just going back to that person who's qualified but doesn't work for company cost the company so many cycles so much stress and so much inefficiency that report and that team work is critical. And i'm a big sports guy big teams guy and so you can see that often in sports where a guy gets traded to the wrong team gets drafted by their own team and he just doesn't fit culturally in the locker room. And how big a problem that can be for an entire organization. Sports you keep score you know if the guy's good or not the ball in the basket every time or scored three touchdowns. He's good but when a guy doesn't fit on the this just happened in the nba. Last season where they traded jimmy butler to the heat and they said this guy's no good. This is no good. They trade him to the heat and he was in the nba finals that season. And he just said. I found the team that wants to win as much as i do. That's where it gets dangerous to. Is that a lot of job. Seekers are desperate for job. Unfortunately and so. You're not always getting the truth out of the process. So if you're running a typical get to know you interview process where go have launched. You're getting the bestself especially if you're not digging deep enough with interview questions or doing what we're gonna talk about in a few minutes confirming or gaining insight into who that person really is. You're no better than a coin. Toss and if you ask applicant. Why do you want to work for our company. The true answer is because i have a mortgage to pay. Ideally want work at a place where they're gonna fit but they want to get paid. They want to be employed and so their hierarchy of needs. They'll say. I want a job. And then was i have a job. I want a good job where i fit. So if that person's already employed in place and is making an upgrade. They're going to maybe be more honest about who they are. And what they're looking for and where it's going to be. But if they don't have a good job right now their incentives are aligned for them to just try to be what they think you want rather than try to be who they really are if you look at people who are even jobs but they're unhappy at that job. They're not necessarily always honest as well. You have a little bit of that challenges. Well you have to get past that you have to get under the hood to understand who the person hits and why this is important. Ultimately there are people who are career minded keeping their eye off the salary ball as long as you can might be beneficial to you as opposed you focusing in on that as a. That should be what they do and when they do that. That's great too often. They don't us as interviewers. It's our responsibility to do that. To lead them down pat sure. Because if i understand you and what's important to you outside of the money. Then i can really make an assessment of whether or not you're could fit right organization. Yeah and i'm a good fit for you. And that was another thing that happened. At the clinical lot was my clinical director. His management style and management south were very different and so there were certain people where one of us would just be totally hands off. Because we knew that if i manage this person. These are the outcomes that we don't want. That are totally avoidable. If we just have richard managed that person and vice versa knowing that person and knowing yourself means not just when you're hiring them also when you're picking who you're gonna hire you have a strategy of. Oh this person will work well under this manager where the space is not just culturally in the whole corporation but in the specific role with the specific team. They're going to be on our. You're listening to higher power radio show. I'm your host rick girardin for our podcast listeners. ticket quick educational moment from our sponsors. The hiring landscape is changing unemployment in the us reached its peak of fourteen percent in april leaving many talented people looking for work. Since february. the number of applicants per job has doubled. Hiring is always hard and it can feel even more daunting in the midst of a pandemic. Well you need is a comprehensive portfolio a free employment assessments. That can help you get to know your candidates. Even though you can't meet face to face learn more at criteria corp dot com check out higher power radio dot com there. You'll find additional content and resources to help you. Land great hires our guest. Today is scott sandland. He's the founder and ceo of sear-. No it's like cyrano diversion wreck i wanna say cryan. Oh i don't know why boever apparently can't read today because our cyrano a and we're discussing wyatt's important number one to get to the truth of person who interview about video interviews because now you're in a situation where you're adding another layer on top of the fact that you can't see somebody in an environment. Gosh the possibility of you conduct a normal interview and you can't really read body language or somebody's hiding accidentally seen from here up Highly elevate the possibility that you're going to probably make a bad hire. It increases the risk their luck. Because you can't read the room the same way when two people are in a room. There's just a whole bunch of subjective things that humans have evolved to be good at assessing for survival if they're via zoom so you're now interacting with a screen but you're also staring at the camera. You're doing this thing. We're looking back and forth at their face and then at the little dot on the top of your laptop. You're doing this constantly and you're seeing yourself so now. There's all these layers of distraction that you don't normally have in a face to face interview because when i do a zoom session on my. That's what everyone sees in my background. That's the back of my room. Oh that's my haircut. Oh that's my whatever as i'm seeing myself which i normally don't do what i'm conversing with people. So there's just all these layers that make it more difficult to do a good job of understanding and getting to know a person. Virtually tons of distraction and makes that much harder. So let's talk a little bit about your product so you guys do what we do. Is we analyze words. We analyze words and phrases in context that allow us to understand a person. We create psychographic profiles on a person. So that means we understand current mental state which means not sentiment analysis. Not like are they in a good mood or a badmin- this person is being logical. This person is being driven by problems and solving needs person is driven by x. y. and z. We can measure that and then we can measure their priorities. So this person is ego and instinct centric this person his data and process centric etc and a bunch of other things and this is based operating their social profile. This is based off or resume. It could be their resume. It could be zoom conversation. So right now we're in zoom and you can just do zoom call like you normally would and our system we'll take that zoom call and run a report on everybody who was on the call and talk about what it would take to have both the people on the call work well together. So it's here's this person here their priorities. Here's how committed they are. And here's the next steps. You should have with this person if you want to work with them. How to get the most out of them. I find out more valuable than an assessment. I'm not a big fan of most assessments gives feel like most companies. Lean on that as the main decision making and that's only meant to be a confirmation tool can whatever your judgment that person i'd be sure and there's disc myers briggs any of those things. They're fine with the caveat that you aren't one person who you are is very context dependent who you are with. Your kid is very different than who you are the customer or client or co worker. The the role. You're in and the scenario shifts that so if we can say not. Who were they when they were filling out a multiple choice test. Because that's not that relevant. I wanna know what they're like when they're having business conversations and so our system captures that in real time. yeah. I've taken a lot of those. And i find that they give you two or three choices of words and you pick the most relevant ones. I can fudge that. Yeah however i think that that company wants their achievable. They're totally achievable either. One of us could take the test and they say hey. I want you to come out with this result and if you took it two or three times you'd be able to do that and you could. Just get the result you want to get and not be honest and so the nice thing about our system is just runs in the background of zoom conversation. So there's no you x. There's no anything that's going to distract you. It just listens and it takes the whole thing and turns that into information so that you as the host or interviewer or whatever word we want to use you. Now have more objective information to make the right decision if we want to build a process into our company and we're gonna utilize strong interview process and then layer in tools like cyrano or another tool on top of it. Where do we start. What are the first steps. Or how do we put this into play for the organization so the first thing to do is measure the people in the organization and understand really what that landscape is and that easy. 'cause you're having internal calls so you just run the system during internal calls and you get that and then you figure out in the role. You're hiring for what that needs. Let's back up. When i'm curious that you have to understand yourself and your team i totally and then they'll these out into your values. Yeah they really are when you think about your brand why your company exists and what your brand identity is to see especially in startups. The company's brand identity is really an extension of the ceo or founders identity and that makes sense but as the company grows. It is reasonable to assume that that can change. And so all of a sudden you bring on a couple of key hires that are leading division of the company and they might be likely are different with different personalities and priorities and so recognizing the subculture that they've created in their department or just the leadership of the organization as individuals. What they prioritize. And how they think through a process. Like i said ego versus data today essentially are adding to the culture injecting their own values into that. Well so then you have to keep that cultural value system up today and you have to work on it and go here. These really are corporate values. Now i it was mind but now i've added four executives around so we need to sit down and ties. It doesn't take very long dude six half day and it's totally worth doing because you wouldn't want to hire clones of yourself. You would want a diverse team that reinforces each other guy. I see so many organizations though. Unfortunately that are command control in they just want people can come in and do the work and they do hire yes men in clones of themselves in people who aren't set up for success Orgainzation is that's fine. But you really need to look deep into whether or not you want to grow the company and innovation spurs. Yeah and if you're a legacy company with a bunch of big contracts that exists and you just don't want anyone to rock the boat make sure you just create copy paste rinse and repeat but especially if yeah if you're looking for opportunities to be innovative to be disruptive to have healthy debates in organization making sure you're hiring people who approach the same problem from different perspectives is critical We've analyzed ourselves. We have an idea who we are. Who are team is. Would you do next you profile the people that you wanna hire. Yes so assuming you're hiring person for a role it already exists and has already filled and so you're either adding a person or back filling or something like that. You could profile that person and say okay. We have john in this sales job. And john has this sort of graph in these sort of archetypal features. Do we want another john. Because he's doing great or do we want a person who has more xyz and you just really look at that sort of philosophically and say what is it. That makes john great at his job and doing now. What you might want may not be the best thing for the company. Sure and that is a challenge. No matter what so all we're doing is giving you data saying look. Are the things that john is good at. And because he's good at these things here's what he's gonna do when he stressed. Here's what he's going to do when he's being creative. Here's how he works well on a team. Here's handful of scenarios and so we can say we really liked the way. John does all these things but if we could have a person who's different in this area that would really round out our team more now ultimately that might not be correct that might be a wrong strategy but at least you're making strategy based on data. Yeah you're tying it back to your core company values as well. People could work differently in approach things from different angles. Diversity is great because when you have people from different viewpoints coming together. They're going to challenge each other as long as they're sticking with the corporate values they're holding those truth when their decision making it puts you in a strong position in part of respecting someone or some organization is understanding how to work together. When you don't agree. And just saying look i know this is regular. It's gonna do things this way. And that's great because there's all these upsides to. It's not the way. I would do things but i trust rick to do it. Because he's earned that the course of and this time together so when you think about that you say i don't need a clone of me and i don't need to clone rick. Maybe i need a hybrid of both of us. Or maybe i just need someone who's gonna get along really well the rick because this guy is going to be reporting to rick anyway and is the ceo comfortable saying we need to grow an organization beyond just stuff that works with me moving on from that. Then we're talking about what creating a process. Yeah we're doing this right now. We're doing a pilot with a large commercial retailer and they're using our system right now in a pretty big hiring process where they've got so many applicants what they're actually looking at using using some software that they create pre scripted questions and then the applicant just gives their answer into a webcam and just records a couple minute videos on each answer and that's the first screening process see. I don't like that. I don't like that because a lot of people are comfortable being in front of a camera. We're we're we're more used to it now because of zoom but the fact of the matter is is that when you're talking to a camera and there's no interaction from another person you're just answering questions. It's not accurate and the idea of just looking at a camera and talking into a light or a camera and trying to be a motive. That's a trained skill. You have to get good at that. And most people aren't trained for that no and most who are good at the job you want them to be good at are good at the job instead of that we need to create a customer interview process. And what does that need to look like. Yeah so you could take their resume. You could take lincoln profile. You could take any of that and run it through our system with button click and then you're getting a profile on that person thumbnail sketch and then that could help inform you on what kinds of questions you want. Ask this person about and you could say okay based on their employment history and based on these psycho graphics. It's easy to start creating interesting insights in questions based on the combination of those things but it also helps you build a shortlist of people who you think you're going to be target rather than throwing shit at a wall and hoping something sticks yet which is what most hiring processes are. Yeah you're targeting in going after those people that you think are going to be the most accurate and doesn't matter where they come from. Somebody comes from a job board or something like that. It doesn't matter. There's an argument for and against high-throughput interviewing and there are some people who really want to do that and just law large numbers kind of thing. I wanna see fifty candidates for this all right. God that drives me the zillow. In what else are you gonna do this week. Besides see those candidates and by the way how are you going to remember the difference between applicant fourteen and thirty nine those are going to start to blur real fast. So you ate up a week or more and it's difficult to remember who you liked more anyway and sometimes you'll on people that will end up taking a job in the process before you've had a chance to get so you're a you're the third person we hired. We should have just hired. You had to do the fifty because we said we would. But we want you and there were like too bad. I'm already working down the street. Then you create a situation where it's completely a transactional scenario. They're not joining you. Because they want to join you there joining you because of the monetary compensation and now. They're not joining you because they feel wanted and special. Just you're the best we found. We didn't say we didn't offer you the job quickly because we still talk to forty seven other people but eventually we got back around to you. That's not fun to go through. When you're the applicant and that doesn't create the momentum you're looking for truly believe that when you create an interview process utai the interview questions to your corporate is so if i'm bringing in somebody all signed interviewer number one. These four questions and you don't need any more than four questions. I don't need to sit there and grill. Somebody in shock and twenty questions off just train. Somebody how to ask three to four questions and dig under the hood on his. And then we're gonna do is evaluate that person against your core values building a knockout question building a question. They basically if that person is complete unaligned with your core values. Thank them for their time and release them from the process. And then you're creating this interview system. Where based on the data that we got our prescreen. Or what have you. And then based on our interview we have evidence to support either moving forward or not making the higher in a fast. No is usually better for both parties. Absolute right with rare exceptions. Getting fast. no is better than a wilsey because then that applicant gets to move on to places where they are af- at instead of looking at the not even get enough. They just get ghost. Yes if you talked outlook is they're never one complain. I sent my resume. I talked to them. We did a phone screen. Haven't heard anything. And what does that do for your employer. Brand absolutely crushes. It's so easy to say. Hey we're going to different direction. Wish you look. It's not that difficult to have a conversation with the person and most people if you have that conversation does self-select select that anyway. We've all been on a first date that didn't go well. My wife and i met on match dot com and we voted on a lot of days before we found each other and one of my favorite match dot com dates. Didn't make it to appetizers. Like this girl and i we were kids. We sat down. We were talking and match going for you. How's it going for you. We talk waiter came by got drinks. He came back and said hey. Can i get appetizers. And she and. I looked at each other and both simultaneously. We're like no. We don't need appetizers. And i looked said i'll take care of this and she said thank you. I hope it goes well for you. I said oh because well for you and she walked away. And that's one of my favorite dates i've ever been on because it was so equal that we were both like. This isn't the right fit whatever it is find person. I'm sure but we knew it wasn't going to work. And so we both walked away and were able to save the rest of our evening. God that's how you should approach your interview if you're interviewing. Yeah that's how you should approach her interview. If you're the candidate looking for a job so the last thing we do we hire right now. The key to it is when we hire the person using our software. We already touched on the ideas. Then you know how to manage that person. You know what to look for in quarterly reviews. You know what to do in all of that work so that it's not just the recruiting. There's a long tail of value and benefit perfect. So it'd be two or three key takeaways and give the audience that can plug another business today to hire people or if they're looking to connect with customers either way people like people that are like themselves. So you're going to be biased to generate an echo chamber. So you need to know what you have and to recognize that just because someone similar to you. That doesn't mean it's good. That's the main one. Yeah it most likely won't right and to cleanse yourself and to find tools but not exclusive that allows you to externalize that process so you can actually show your work in the more you show your work the easier it is to find flaws and better ways to do things and constantly improve. What you're doing all right. We're just about out of time today. Show scott thanks so much for your time investments today and i want to welcome you to the higher power community now. What would be the best way in which members of our audience can reach. Your two one is our website. Which is cyrano dot. Ai and the other one's c. y. r. a. n. o. So it's like cyrano diversion. Act the guy with the big nose who was good at writing. Poems is a steve martin. Movie cyrano cr. No dot or lengthen. And i'm happy to talk. I i wanna think our listening audience for attending this week's episode of higher power things star team. Brian coburn andrew ballen and eligible The podcast please subscribe review and share. After all this shows for you and we're trying to constantly improve our content enjoying the higher power radio community higher. Hr e power pow er radio r. a. d. i o. Dot com or you can draw an email. Ricketts dried search dot com next week. Our guest is going to be tim spiker. He is the founder and president of the curio. I'm your host rick gerardo and you listening to the higher power radio show aloha. Thank you for listening to higher. Power radio hatch. How lincoln live. Show every tuesday at noon or download. The podcast on iheartradio. I choose you choose for your favorite podcast classroom. We appreciate you joining us on higher power radio with your guide to recruitment success.