172 - Im Fine, Look Away
Right. Georgia. Yeah. Has your hair taken a turn for the worst? It likes to I have harsh styling chemicals in it. I used scorching blow dryers use hot comb. I want you I know in curling irons and they're taking toll. These shows are killing our hair healthier hair starts on the inside you want your beautiful hair back. Simple. Give it what it craves sugar bear hair. Everything your hair craves is in sugar bear hair, gummy vitamins, just to delicious sugar bear, gummy vitamins, nourish your hair from within to promote longer, stronger, healthier more, beautiful looking hair that takes care of your hair. Now are you getting enough sleep? Karen, none of your business. If you're not you'll love sugar bear sleep. The newest addition to the sugar bear healthy family of products, if Alicia berry flavored sugar sleep dummies, and they're getting rave reviews. We're we're talking fall asleep faster. Best sleep ever bay review that's recap sugar bear hair for longer, stronger, healthier hair and sugar bear sleep to fall asleep faster in sleep better. Order both at sugar hair bear dot com slash murder sugar. Bear hair dot com slash murder sugar. Bear hair dot com slash. There's a little devil inside. Didn't feel it coming up because you open your mouth. We just looked at each other. As we start little children. I have a moment of holy shit. This is what I do. This is huge. This is real this is the part where we have two podcasts. Good at it. Yeah. Opener amounts to speak at the same time and the weirdest sound came out of my fucking mouth you call it a sound others. Michael it a burp. It wasn't avert a little bubble that like it was like a brave little bubble that came back up to Sam getting out of here. Oh, wow. That was hilarious. Excuse me. It looked like you were doing a bit. Talking but burping instead. Well to my favorite murder. It's a podcast podcasts. That's Karen heart star. And we are your podcast hosts for the night or the hosts, and we're gonna lead you along. The way burps the burpee issed do it. I made a deadly mistake before directly before we started. This is the pickles or the diet coke. It's the combination of the two might be the new flavor we need to talk about Karen's adorable snack that she's eating right now that just like makes me so happy like when people make a stack that's got like a little bit of this. And that on it. It's just the best. So thank you. What a great compliment, this is a stolen snack. So my friend, Karen Anderson who if you want to listen to her podcast, it's dining with Doug. And Karen that she has Doug Benson knife. And she's a big food aficionado, foodie person herself a great cook. But this was a snack. She made up from when? We worked together long ago, and you can buy all of the ingredients of it at trader Joe's, and what it is. So when the next time you go to your trader Joe's, get off mock crackers, aka m may or the fuck and hippie crackers that my mom's been buying. They got the sesame oil your eyes at them. When you see them are impossible to close back up. Yes, they still have the old school cellophane only rapper. So you're on your own, but they're great. They're so good. And and sesame delicious. Then you get some of the pepper Jack cheese that they have sliced not the block don't know only know pre sliced don't be a fucking sociopath block of cheese. No, don't be crazy this splurge on the pre sliced because that actually is a major element because see when you get this. It's a square preset slice. Yeah. But when you fold it in half, it becomes exactly the size of an aqua cracker leash shit. It's perfectly onto the cracker. Then you have to go. Sorry. This is actually it's. It's we looked today. When Stephen and I worked trader Joe's, but they didn't have the stackable pickles. Usually you can get those flash sandwich. I don't think trader Joe's FOX with that really traded. Look, we have spears we have whole and we have sliced. Yeah. And that's all we do. That's right. If you want more, you know, go somewhere else. It's amazing. They haven't figured out how to steal the sliced stackable pickles because they steal every other good food product that there is and make it their own. I respect it. Anyway. So you have a fucking pickle on the side. You actually you should when it's a stackable you can stack it on top. But now I have a spear creates insanity for Stephen literally eating these over the sink because they were so damn can I suggest a fucking scored of yellow mustard on that shit. Not to me a while. I don't like mustard. But yes to another person they might love that have fucking smear on hear me out of pocket. I hate the word dollops. I'm not gonna say that. Okay of APR ikat jam. Now, I sound pregnant now. I'm not I'm not pregnant, but that's how we'll know. Will you know, what it would be interesting to see if people wanna make this and try it out, and then go ahead and put your own spin on it. Put your own spent give give what's your almost called you Virginia. I'm not kidding. I don't. It's the beginning of the end for me. We all know, it makes sense. Try Georgia's dollop of mustard plan. Go ahead and give give April, Jim. We're only wanna know your favorite cracker snack. Yes. Because all I want is line originated from triscuits and cheese, which my mother's mainstay through the seventies. And then she went into a week's worth area. But this is the trader Joe's new fangled version from Karen Anderson, so give that a world see if you like it. And then see if you have anything to add, and it's all topped on a plate by our friends scarlet river, who's a really great artist on Instagram on a really cute Victorian looking play that says your own shit get out of the forest out of the four. Oh, actually, it has get a job, but it was covered by pickles. I mean, see that. So that's what's going on at the exactly right studios. I want to take a picture of that for later. That's right for the for the peop- Instagram. It'll be there. Yeah. Good stuff. Anyhow. That's there is this this show started out the. Fifteen minutes before we started recording. We it was as we were preparing for belching with the things that we've been doing. That's been snack corner. Yeah. That's the newest enjoy it. Enjoy it or else. What else kinda corner? Well, let's see let's do mardi corner. Real quick great. So. A couple of weeks. Okay. A couple stories about my dad one is that he so he's on the fan. Call in the fan. Cole is active in the fan cult. Sure, he's on the chat, message boards and everything. Like that. He's out there ready to communicate. He's ready. And so we have someone who's now handling are the fan called and doing a great job of it. But he his name's Denton. He took the name screen name data Reno. On the fan. Call and my dad fucking text me and said, hey, whose data like he was mad about it. So didn't change this. King name did Denton give him data-relay. Now. I don't wanna give I don't know if you could take it. But it's now his that's hilarious recently. My dad was we were having lunch. And he said to me, you know, you know, how because he comes to a lot of shows live shows, you know, how when I'm in the audience in your saying negative things about your mother. And then you you stop. And you know, tell me you're sorry in the show. You know, I just want you to know. I don't I don't mind when you talk about her. I would love to talk shit about your mother in front of all of these people. Don't worry about me. It'd been trying to get the one up on Jen it for years, and you're helping me K one more thing on my parents. I gave my mom I got it special. And exactly right. Our fucking podcast network. I got her a mug that we have. It's like, I'm like, you have saved it. And I finally saw gave it to her. She left it in gilson's. So if you live in Buchan wherever the ships LA and find a fucking exactly right mug with cold coffee. How shitty is that? It's your daughter's company. Yeah. Fuck I'm an entrepreneur. You are it doesn't change that whether Janet has that mug and on a little a little podium in the middle of her wouldn't be a podium if she hasn't on a little platform in our kitchen onto a fucking grocery store. Second question. Yeah. Why wouldn't you just have let's be the travel Mons? Do it Janet. But she's actually just kind of rolling out of the house still holding the coffee mug that she started with that morning. Maybe she was proud of me and was like doing it with the thing out and like walking around with it. But then she forgot it was there and walked away. Maybe 'cause gilson's knowing how to talk about. And if you don't live in Los Angeles, you might not know gilson's the rich people grocery store, high end there's a wine bar in it. There's a wind bar. There's Bach LA there. We'll all in bucks pucks as some kind of station. Yeah. There's all kinds of things to have. She might have just got caught up in the lifestyle. I get it maybe hit that wine bar beforehand. She's like goat cheese smiles around our. Yeah. Throws down the mug shot in a million pieces by okay, I feel better. What are you? Let's see a we were going to recommend some bughouse. Right. Yeah. Things. We've been listening to podcasts corner. Okay. So my podcast Cornell. Switching on over. And I tell me if I've. Kind of don't wanna know if I've mentioned this early 'cause it's horrifying. But so let's see the podcast. I listen to the last time, I drove home because I've I've plugged Jon Ronson stuff before he's one of my favorite writers. He's a British journalist, and he's an amazing investigative journalist investigative, and he he has a new podcast out called the last days of August. So he had a his podcast before that was called the butterfly effect. And it was all about the porn industry. And how it changed after the digital takeover who? And he got to know some people any learned about this story about the death of a porn star named August aims. And so this podcast is about that death essentially and have to listen to the first one to really get into this. I know he makes it super. He introduces it perfectly basically explains how he came like stumbled upon the story, and it is really it's not true crime in that way of it's an in depth investigative. Yes story. Yes. He'll kind of about the lifestyle. 'cause I that's like a deep dive, you don't get no at all talking about like real sex on HBO, right it, and I feel like the for a long time. It was very important for people to kind of push that idea that like there are people in the sex industry who are really into it. And they wanted to be there wasn't this this. I state that a lot of people were in which is important for people to feel empowered into be like night. Fuck you. This is my decision, which is a real thing. This is a different story. This is almost kind of like, but there there are. Just listen to it. Because I better better to listen to it. Then have me describe it dark and deep and I'm fucking I'm there. He's just a very good journalist and what he makes his important to hear. What's it called? Again. It's called the last days of August. And it's Jon Ronson new podcast. I'm listening to it. Sweet. I'm listening to couple true crime ones as I always do. And then also when I need to not do that because it gets fucking dark. Sometimes you're listening to this. I listen to this podcast and have persona long called be wealthy. And smart. And it's spy financial guru, Linda p Jones who's like she's there for it's like, it's catered towards women and women understanding, you know, everything about finances. So that they can take a hold of their fucking lives and like being charged important as so important. She is a book that I'm reading called you're already wealth. Aris nothing can act like one. Ridiculous. But balking love it so much let the Arizona of your wealth. You're the heirs of the Del Monte pickle fortune gouge elation good. Yeah. I I like her message. And it's you know, in the podcast is like anything, you just read the titles of them. And you'll find one that you should listen to. Yes. It's like it's mart. Very good and like listenable because a lot of times, I think or at least speaking for myself. It's like a whole area that gives me like so much anxiety just thinking about it or. Yeah. Yeah. Of like things I've thought up or immediately. It just puts my mind to where I felt thing. So it's really good to listen to people who know what they're talking about basically telling you, you can do this you can figure this out, and you can be in charge. She's really knowledgeable, and there's even stories about like financial abuse in relationships, which I didn't even know it was thing until they listen to keeping money from people to keep you in the relationship weird ways to control. Oh, yeah. There's so there's kind of and then there's also like how, you know six ways to pay off debt, or whatever it's just like, there's everything. Great. And so she has like little bits of knowledge that she Buckingham parts to you. And it's it's just great. Here's one of my ways, I got a Kohl's card last. Chris I was at Kohl's. I was buying nor a whole bunch of stuff because the Kohl's is right right in town in Petaluma. And when I got up to the register may have this story. But the lady that worked there was every everybody's mom from when I was eight years old. So that she already had power over me. And she added up my stuff and looked and goes girl if you get a cold card, you'll get like two hundred dollars off one. I was like are you serious? And she goes, oh, yeah. We're doing this thing. And then she just basically made it she made me do it and made it happen. Did it really quickly? She was like she should be commended by the Kohl's corporation that happened to me. But I was like twenty three and it was Victoria, secret card chide never shopped at and I was just like I didn't get what was happening. Yeah. Then suddenly, I was I had my first credit card. Did it go badly? No. I never shot there. Again, good company, but I have such bad credit that any line of me, I can take that and use it to fix my credit Odelay. So even though because I went to so I went to my count. And then she was I see you got a Kohl's card. Very good move. Because I thought she would be like what are you doing closed that down? Now, if you get approved for it fucking grade get approved and then buy things and then pay it off in a timely manner. You can fix your own stuff. Guys looks Linda p Jones before you all this because it's strategic you need to be strategic. And if you're snow me, I know nothing you're scared. You're scared of it. Knowledge is power the more. You know, the the smarter decisions you'll make that's right. And remember there's people that are in it every single day. It's scary to you when it's this foreign land that you know, you don't know how to navigate in any way. But there's people like Linda p Jones who that's their life. And they can really give you advice. Like, no, this is the real this is how it actually is separate from your ears so much. I mean, I I. Yeah. That's great almost every. Three podcasts. And i'm. Smart also. Okay. So let's fan cult corner. We just put up a queue in a video that I really like it. It's super cute. Yeah. And we the people who are now doing our website with us in our fantasy with us. We love and our good friends. Have these great ideas that they're like helping us produce the stuff? So now, it's just like more. There's going to be more and more of that kind of stuff because we can think of an idea and be like can we do this? Yeah. And then in a month, it'd be like here, it is just so rare in crazy. It's the best. It's like, yeah. And it's stuff that we like that's good for us. So can I just thought of something our book comes out three fucking? We is that true. What can you tell me? It'll be eighteen days. I think as of tomorrow what happens. What if it's a what if everyone is mad at everyone's gonna be mad and laugh at us at the same happen. We'll move to the beach. Okay, venice. Yeah. We'll just then we'll get some of those. That's what those southwest gotta get away tickets or for and you look in the get outta town Galapagos. We'll go back to Albuquerque. Remember, how great it wasn't. They loved it there. It was really beautiful so nice. Okay. Coming out everyone. We wrote a book, and we didn't just write a book. It's our memoir spilled some shit. I told the story of getting my nipple Pierce for the first time. There's some really if you're looking for the inside scoop. We we basically scooped it all out imported into this thing. Yes, or no. It's essentially a blog. Yes. It is is we should have asked for it to be black background with neon. Green guidon. And then like space stuff on the side. We're words that are highlighted that. You can look. No, it's great search for your name. It's going to be great. Oh and like thirst like fan art in it. Yes. It's just so cool. They they laid it out and designed it with you know, or we did too. I mean, we did on having van are sinners are in the bucks, and they made it happen. And it looks great. And there's also fun family photos. We have like personal photos of different points of our life. It's just like it's kind of amazing nothing else. I mean, it's heavy enough to be a paperweight, and you can also donate it to your local thrift store. That's right. You could also if you this summer if you if you and your friends do bonfires at the beach light it up get like four those KENDALL on kindling kindling if your books or what we do kindling handling get in there. Get a potbellied stove for your cabin. And we're just here to try to help you who whatever you want. If you like it, and you read it. Then there's going to be an audio book. I mean, there's just like layer after. Oh, turn the light off this. It's too to in here. Okay. That's right. Oh god. I know we're not gonna do better. We're podcasting. Now, we're not in school anymore. Now. We're out of the fluorescence. So yeah, I get ready for the book thing we're talking to each other. When I say that stay sexy before get ready for it. Lauren. Karen? Should we start? No, I have a corrections corner. Even though it's a while ago. Mike. Though, I said this on stage young in Oklahoma City. But I feel like that's in needs to be brought to more people, by the way. We've I mean every weekend of this tour, and there's been plenty has been amazing and remarkable. And but this last weekend, Oklahoma City gave us an ovation. When we walked on stage. That is the loudest thing I've ever heard life. It was they brought the thunder in such a meaningful powerful way. And and also it went on for a while. Yeah. You guys are beautiful Oklahoma City. Thank you so much, and they were so grateful that we came to. It was hilarious. Yeah. They were the best. I mean, it's just it's insane. Standing on stage and being clapped up. Yes, doesn't I it's so hard to to absorb and taken right insane. And amazing. And I love it. I love it. And I'm just also so fucking humbled by it. Yeah. And yeah, yeah. Yeah. We had a weekend of humbling show. Yeah. And the the ones in Dallas and Houston were huge and beautiful. And we just thank you guys so much again. And we know we say it all the time. But thank you so much for showing up and having these Yasim, you do and and thank you to the person in Oklahoma City who threw up in the audience people through up one in the balcony one in the on the lower level, right which we were hoping off the balcony. But it wasn't actually. But we did inside the balcony in the middle of our Oklahoma City show. It's quiet. I think Karen's doing her murder, and we just hear out of the corner of our years. I saw I had the visuals Herta very angry too. And rightfully so very angry. Usher who had to clean up. This person's puke snapped took out a garb a plastic bag and snapped it out three times like your mom when you have an emptied the garbage just went to do it to prove a point as hind each time. Fucking theaters. I was going to ignore it. And I was like okay, something obviously happened. But it because once nap out of like, I need this thing to be bigger snapping at three times as like fuck you. It was like you could practically hear it was hilarious as we. It was really a so you guys they brought it. I mean, they brought it in every way everybody made it special in their own way. But on this that stage. I was just I brought up the fact that I went into that thing where I was trying to think of the word for an Elizabethan Ruff. But I was talking about the renaissance and the restoration. I went all all over the map, but lots of. People were like just tweeting going Elizabethan as the what I should have been there for that. I don't know how and the other one was there was some people who misunderstood me. I think unless I misspoke. But when I did the story I tried to explain that we were in Saint Louis, but I picked a story that happened in Kansas City. Right. That was the leftover story that I did that was the the at walkway clarity. Didn't think it was in one city or another you I knew that. I knew the collapse happened in Kansas City at that height at, but it we I was picking it because we were in Saint Louis, and it was in the same state. But I got a couple of tweets from people who are fired up of like excuse me that happening in Kansas City. And I was like, yeah. I know, but there's definitely a chance that I said Saint Louis at some point. But that's not guys. We can't keep track of your fucking college. Team rivalries. I mean, I know you wanna. This place and gay this place. But we don't understand. Meaningless. Yeah. But my problem is that I think because I said, I was picking this story for Saint Louis people are like how dare you? But it's like that. They're not thinking, I was I was being too inside bone brain. I got it though. Essentially, I got it and. It's all matters weight. And sorry one Moore's faculty because we had another one of the ones like the woman who said my sister is dying in the meet and greet which tell me, so the the original was a woman who right as we were getting our picture taken at the meet and greet. The woman goes my sister's dying and both of us turn out of that like during the picture turn toward her. And are like what's going on are you? Okay. And then she goes, no. She's just so jealous that she's not here. And we're like do that. Like we screamed at her. It was hilarious. And of course, we all laughed like what the hell. So it happened again in Dallas. All right. Where remember the woman said I left my husband, right as we're taking picture. She said I left my husband. So of course, we think issue that so strong. You're so brave or whatever and we turn to get the storage goes at the bar across the street. Just like, please watch the phrase get out of here. We we all about that. It was so funny. Pretty good. So many good moments in those fucking meet-and-greet. It's truly overwhelming. It's so fun. And there are people who are like do you hate this as to just like we fucking love? It must be tired. It's like, no, we have adrenaline to the fuck and hill. Yup. Did a show in front of fucking cloudy, people barf so much. We talked to somebody about Vincic. Vince can't dude any more care. Thank you, all everybody. And. Yeah, goodnight. No. Yes. Yes. Karen? Yes, did you know that fashion is the second most polluting industry in the world? But you didn't you know, you've told me in this commercial before? That's why I love shopping secondhand at threat. 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Some of them are Karen the post office, FedEx USPS that's supposed office UBS and even Amazon fulfillment almost yell. The bank. Let's say they also the Bank when they send you your checks. They also offered offer discounts on shipping cost the kind of post. Discounts usually reserved for fortune five hundred company right now, try ship station free for sixty days when you use promo code murder. Go to ship station dot com. Click on the microphone at the top of the homepage and type in murder. Don't wait ship station dot com. Enter enter murder ship station get ship done. And so then Stephen season. I right then selling so as you've all probably caught on this is a story that was left over. I had it full were. I think it was Houston show. And then I switched my story last minutes or have to log back into my laptop. They can hear your password duty puplic tell let it is. Can I tell it is dope. It's like, Nope. Not that. I can't talk and write it in at the same time silent. This is a podcast everyone shot. Okay. Got it. Yeah. So basically, this meant I had homework Gardy done when I got home, which is just a miracle kneeling utilize thing. Truly the best. This is an oldie or older. You know, what it felt like when when we were there. It is is these are those kinds of stories that have already been covered on every twenty twenty every dateline every. You know, American Justice, and whatever because a lot of those stories are rich people murdering each other where I am in for one percent to it. I love it. It's like the the world you can't be in any way. Yeah. And then it does not mean, you're happy just because you're rich. And you have everything it actually, usually means that things are going to happen. Definitely. Or at least it seems like it seems that case they Sun City confidential that one hundred percent true as well as Dominick Dunne's, power privilege and Justice forgot to talk about what Ted Bundy movie. Did you watch it? Yeah. I haven't watched it. Okay. Let's wait till next week. Okay. I'll I swear I'll watch it. And I'll I'll have all kinds of pinions, right? Hey, great. Can you just give me one hint? As to how my boy did second round great. Yes. He oh, am I right? Oh, if there's a if there's a discussion about the negativity. It's not Zach Ephron. Hello. Thank you. Okay. No. He was great great. I knew we would be to get the debt is right out. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. He was good awesome. I can't wait to what you know. What I will watch it tonight. Okay. Where do your Georgia watching? Were you with everything I have? So the murder of Joan Robinson hill. Okay. Joan Robinson who later on hill. She's born February six nineteen thirty one to an unmarried woman. So she's put up for adoption because it's the thirties got bid. Yeah. Those women had to be disappeared. Oh, listen to the most insane criminal episode about a woman who's to go around trying to get white babies to adopt. Have you heard that why babies or adopting other babies? Oh, she's starting to get babies adopting babies. Favor work loan. We haven't em MTV reality show about that yet dirt biking and swearing. Getting people to adopt white babies. Yes, there there was there was a lot. Suddenly there was no more stigma on adoption because for a long time. It was like if it's not your real baby. You're it's all that. It was all the craziness about adoption, and suddenly it was it it became acceptable. And then it was like you have to hear it. It's is it like, hey, you kinda don't want your baby give it to me. And then like, I think that's how it started. This woman had a justified ner mind. That's how it started. And then she would go up and trick poor women into going your baby sick, a nurse, and I work for the hospital, and she just steal bobby's. Steal your baby. It's recent one on criminal listen to it. It's the best. Why am I even talking about the oh because option thing? Okay. So she's put up for adoption a month later. He very successful Houston. Oilman named Ashra Benson and his wife. Rhea adopter because they can't have kids themselves. So she's the only child of an oil magnate girl, get it. What is? She have horses horses where horses everywhere horses for days and not those dumb, plastic ones that you had as girl that had agree. And I shouldn't say dumb because they the one I got. And when I got it. I was just like it was as if my parents gave me a real horse. Yeah. Those plastic courses like sure one foot was up you put it up on the window. So your your goal trotting away to check in childhood happiness. And then you get your period all ends. Okay. Anyhow is she loves horses from when she's three years old. So, of course, her father immediately buys her one. She starts writing lessons at age three holy shit. So she's in it to win it. But she's a natural horsewoman, she she begins competing when she seven years old and between nineteen thirty eight when she seven and nine hundred forty five when she's fourteen she places either first or second every competition, she enters so she's there was some amazing quote about some like a. Equestrian competition judge that had seen her ride and had this big quote about how unbelievably majestic and perfect. She was as a writer so after high school she attends Stevens college in Columbia. College. The fighting the Pinocchio cz. Steven's favorite Disney movies, right lighting, keep fighting each other Pinocchio the sword. Oh. Okay. So she doesn't get great grades. But she has a very active social life. She is the perfect socialite. She's beyond when in the pictures of her later on the fifties. She has little blond bay and women. Don't need. Good grades in the fifties. That's not what they're there for now. You if you've got a rich dad and horses and you're good at parties, you're set. Yeah. Good grades were just gravy. Good grades like nerds good grades probably work against you socialite seen in the fifty two smart. Don't don't upset a man. Yeah. Okay. So her parents, well, she's in college Lisa suite of rooms in a hotel near the college. And then they come to visit her regularly. Wow. So she's clearly the apple of there is when she's in college. She gets married and divorced a couple times a capital time. Yeah. 'cause she's out socializing. It's the fifties. When you you're like, hey, wanna go get coffee and get married. Real quick. Yeah. We'll probably like, hey, we should have sex get married. Yeah. So I it was a man named spike Benton who was a navy pilot. And then she got married to man name cease all Burg lasts who was in New Orleans lawyer, and he was a childhood friend and ash disapproved of both men and neither marriage lasts more than six months for spy conceal. Yeah. So I think she was probably like, I'll do it. I won't yet. And she goes and gets married to whoever. And then she's like this. I want the horses dad back. Okay. But then on September twenty eighth nineteen fifty seven. So this is obviously when she's out of college. I think if anybody's gonna hope the years math. Fifty seven do twenty four. Yeah. Unless your grades are really bad. She should be out of college. She gets married to a man named Dr John hill, and he is one of Houston's top plastic surgeons plastic surgery in the fifty in the late fifties that shit. That's when they were like, here's the plastic surgery procedure. We're gonna do for your nose job. I'm gonna hit you with his hammer. Stay still, ma'am, ma'am. See what we do is put chip clips on the site of your face. Whole it back as tight as we can staple it you got your face lit staple it we'll give you a couple of shots in Nova came in that skin and you're on your own night. So he was he was not just a plastic surgeon. He was an avid very talented piano player. So the first six years of their marriage nineteen fifty seven and nineteen sixty three they lived on Jones parents property. They lived at near ashes house, basically. And there are a huge part of the Houston social scene, but otherwise they live pretty separate lives. Joan is all still all about her horseback riding, and John is focusing on his medical practice, and and his piano playing and his music and John on this chip clips, and and his figure out smaller and better chip clips and clip onto the back of women scalps so on June fourteenth, nineteen sixty Joan gives birth to their son, Robert Ashton nickname, boot hill. Hill named after the famous western cemetery. You know, fun stuff for kids Joan tells her father that she wants to breed horses and start a writing school. So she says that so he buys her farm. Call Chatsworth farm. It opens in nineteen sixty three and it becomes a site for an annual picnic that the hills host you can feel this light. Yeah. Oil money, well, horse people, social at wealth, while well, generational wealth. That's right old money. Yeah. Nine hundred sixty five John and Joan finally buy their own house at fifteen sixty one Kirby drive, but it's just down the street from John's parents, so in-law city Joan tells John tells Joan that he wants to turn one of the rooms of this new house into into a music room for himself. And so he asks Jones father he asks ash for ten thousand dollars to build it. But ash thinks that St. a stupid idea and refuses to give them I have to agree with us, right like build it yourself ten thousand dollars back then is how much then I would say easily seventy grand. Yeah. If not more will seven hundred grand. Well, yeah, I guess it would be up in maybe two hundred grand yet to let's go to go to. Let's let's meet in the middle at to a lot of money. But you have to imagine though, Dr John hill, the one of the leading plastic surgeon hammer wielders of the area, he's watching her by horses left, right or an open farm. So he's like about me and my passions. And I say, yeah, I wanna think too, and it doesn't really work that way with rich people. You gotta bring bring that wealth. Wish a burrowing doesn't sit. Well, with a lot of self made men will heard her horse farm, or whatever the fuck is who's about to make a lot of money, right? Because they like have it's like a business. Yes. But like. Putting a drum kit and a piano on your fucking basement is not going to bring in the bucks. No. That's that's mostly for like. I just want you to have great weekends. Yeah. Just want you to feel fulfilled. That's a vintage man cave. Yes. It is. I am. So angry the story for making me say man cave. So never forgive. It. Never, you know, he gets the big. No. So John goes and gets a loan from a Bank, a, wait. Sorry. One of the other reasons that Ashdod said, no it was because he lent them part of the money to buy this house in the first place. So yeah, you're already not that into borrowing. And this guy's coming back for more. So I'm sure Ashra was just like get out of here make your own money plastic surgeon, so John gets a loan from the Bank, and then commission someone to build in the music room for him, and he quickly exceeds that ten thousand dollar budget, and he spends around seventy five thousand dollars shit in that is I mean today's money ten thousand dollars is too much for music room. Yes. And then the. And then if you do math, well, well, you're going half a million dollars right for two Atta music room onto your house when they finally finished the room in nineteen sixty nine he had spent roughly, oh here, we go one hundred thousand dollars on that music room, which is the equivalent of seven hundred thousand dollars today. He was closer to a million dollars shit. Linda, p Jones would be very against that. He would not like that's not what wealth heiresses do. Now. It's not hail. No, okay. So around the same time in nineteen sixty eight John n Jones marriage is on the rocks. The partly because of the music room. That'd be funny of Jones like I hate music of all kind. But also because it seems Joan feels like that their music room and the project, and that whole thing is all he cares, which isn't entirely true. Because what John also cared about was the woman he had started to have with named and Kurth who he had met picking up his kids at summer camp. And she was picking up her kids at summer camp guys. They had a cheaters meet cute summer camp parking lot in August of nineteen sixty control your fucking urges people. I mean, if he can't control his his music man cave verge, then he's like he's just doing it. It's true. That fall Joan goes away for a horse riding competition. And when she comes back. She finds a note from John saying he's left because things are quote, not good between us. So did you get a decide that fucker? Yeah. That's all on him. Also, it was it was on a notepad with music notes at the. Sorry. I just saw it in my mind. In. It's like, here's a note in quotes from John. Oh my God. Fucking with what's a note, some kind of a quarter note in the quarter half. Two notes. I now great at least you knew on I play cello. And I don't even know what did you get actual song out on that cello? Could you could you play a song who? It was like that. But it sounded kind of sound like a song that's a hard instrument for your eight. I was like eight and probably like severely underweight, so teeny tiny person. This is not about me. It is though. Okay. So so basically Joan calls John's office to say where is he leg I'm trying to figure out like we at least have to talk about it. He's not there. So her father ash suggests hiring detective to track down, but Joan doesn't do that Kim two weeks later John context Joan again again after the music, no he asked to meet up with her. And then he tells her about the affair that he has saying that he's been staying with aunt. So this this woman has mistress. He's basically been at her house the whole time. Yeah. So in November of nineteen sixty eight John serves Joan with divorce papers. But both an I had to read this sentence like three times, both Joan and ash still want the marriage to work. Okay. Wife and her father really want the marriage to work because he'll turn it's your reputation. But also. Yeah, it doesn't work if you're done as much of an opinion, then you. You're part of the problem. Like, you have to admit there's a reason this guy wants to get away. And also just it has to be the two people in marriage that want it to work the best case scenario. Yeah. That's what you should be aiming for I I mean, dad, thanks for the support. Please get out of the merit. Okay. So in early December nineteen sixty eight ash asks to meet with John hill, and at the meeting he says that if John doesn't make the marriage work that will come after him enforce them to repay all the money. The John still owes him. So John withdraws the divorce petition returns to Joan to make up just before Christmas that year. How awkward would that be your dad told me that money if I didn't love you anymore? I can't leave so back. Great merry Christmas. Let's shut her on your matching sweater on. Let's do this fine horrifying. Okay. So and the height of romance. Yeah. Of course, an Kurth comes back into the picture. And she basically tells John it's hurt or me. But despite that, John John does is he stays with Joan. But he keeps a separate apartment court ends like an Jimena. He basically just keeps the place that they were staying shocking. Absolutely. No on. Yeah. Right. Right. So then John j-o-h-n, I wish their names weren't Jones on it's making it harder really needs to be with you. So Joan notices John's been spending a lot of evenings away. And she finally calls him out on its that starts a fight and the next day as John's taking their son to get a haircut. He stops by the apartment to pick up a couple of things and brings the sun with him. I'm on right? So then, of course, their son tells his mother. Yeah. Yeah. Dad's still has a secret apartment or whatever you name five, hey, dad's got this mistress. No, you're going to be upset. So I'm gonna be the one that stays calm dad's still got that apartment. No, no, no daddy. Still got that dead. The of course, Jones livid and and sadly surprised. So in early March of nineteen sixty-nine the hills have house guests over their friends of Jones named Diane said aghast. And then a second woman named Eunice woolen who is not listed as Jones friend to who knows. Why you nieces there? What are you doing their unique unique it feels like you're there to judge people? But maybe that's just because of your name woolen, so Diana, and you knees notice that John keeps getting called away by pager in the sixties. It's nineteen sixty nine what kind of a page or is it Hughes? Highs of the room. It's yeah. It's basically, it's the pants. He's wearing are the page. It's full body. Pager got it. I don't know. I I guess doctors have always had them aging is probably a phone call. Yeah. That's probably what it means being paid page on a paging service. What it is. That would make way more sense, though, if you have pictures of old fashioned pagers that are really big we'd love to see absolutely. So he keeps getting called away being paged away. And then when he comes back. He he comes back in the evening any always brings pastries. But he's very specific about how he has these pastries out what the he gives them. Brought these amazing Disney bitty want them. You should have him. You shove this new shove this? No, no, no, don't flinch. Don't switch. I want the cheese Dana. Nope. Nope. Sorry unique. But you weren't even really invited. Here. We don't know who's friend. You are you don't get the cheese. So he's very controlling specific about these pastries? Okay. A March fourteenth nineteen sixty-nine during a the stay with Diana niece, Joan invites a fourth woman over earnings van Maxwell, and they all wanna play bridge. So she invites van over to the house and the forget play a game of bridge on one end of the music room will John sits listening to music on the other end. And it's super awkward all the women out. Isn't it weird? Like when you're having like girlfriends over and then the husband comes home or you're at your friend's house. And then it's like, no, he's fine. He's he's cool with it. I don't wanna be here anymore. Right. I know he's in the bedroom. But like this creepy. Well, yeah. Because it doesn't then it just feels like there's someone waiting for you to lead. What Ellie and which is we've all done that were just like the countdown begins. I can't wait till have my house back. Yeah. Yeah. So and and maybe they were just trying to make the most of this insanely expensive music room. I don't know. Okay. But the the all those women had felt and sensed the super weirdest. Okay. Joan dishes to van about the fights that she's been having with John. And she tells van that she's going to get a lawyer and cut him out of her will and towards the end of the evening. John puts on a romantic record and then walks over and stands behind his wife's chair. And so then Diane suggests that they danced together, which they do. And then before everyone goes to bed at the end of the watch this weird couple dance, very presentation Lee. So then the next morning March fifteenth nineteen sixty-nine Joan or not morning. It's the afternoon Joan wakes up really late in the afternoon, and she tells her friends so like she has friends there, and she doesn't wake up until later. Not good. And she says, John. John gave her some pill that must've knocked her out because she liked couldn't come. She couldn't wake up. But she says that the night before John had made her quote, very happy. And that things he had said things he'd she'd never heard him say before. And she said she feels like they're going to be fine. Fuck you. Yeah. Feel I'm getting that presentation feel. Yeah. Some people like to do getting that poison feeling. So the next day Joan get sick. She vomits like after breakfast can't stop bombing. So she spends all day in bed and John tends to her brings her medicine. She stays upstairs while John basically entertains the guests on Monday March seventeenth, Diana and Eunice and their visit there, I say you niece before it's unis or you knees Eunice Eunice woolen. So Joe they leave because it's like Monday like the trips over but Jones still up in bed. And sick when they leave. So John tells their house made EFI green that Joan is not to be disturbed while she's recovering from her. Now. Are you familiar with the film reversal of fortune? No, okay. That's the story of Sonny class von Bulow in the very mysterious way that sunny von Bulow died, and it is it's like exact replica of this story in this part, which I'm blown away by which is what it's the fact that there's somebody that's sick in bed and the husband says, leave her alone, leave her by herself kind of. I mean, it seems like a understandable. If it's not out of the question if the person's not murdering that like don't she wants to be left alone? Sure. Yep. She's sick and wants to be left. Yeah. But this is day two of this sickness where it's like like almost like food poisoning a ton of vomiting. Yeah. Well. And the other end reversal of fortune, which if you haven't seen that movie, it's great lend close, Jeremy Irons. It's nuts. It's a true story. It's true crime. It's one of my favorite movies doing it. Okay. So the next day Martine EFI disobeys John's orders, and when he leaves for work for that day. She goes up stairs to check on Joan Joan lying in a feces soaked night. So. Yeah. And she's been sitting in her own filth for a Y. Oh my God. So EFI helps her to the bathroom to clean herself up get some fresh clothes. But while they're in there, and while Evie changing her she notices that Jones face starts to turn blue. So she calls Jones parents, and John, but nobody answers, no one's home. So then the mother RIA just drops by she doesn't even know that Jonas sick. She's just dropping by to say hi from up the street. She sees Joan in the condition that she's in and John while the while they're while reas freaking out about her daughter, John comes home from work. So they decide that they need to take Joan to the hospital that it's that it's gotten that bad. So instead of calling an ambulance John insists upon Dr self and instead of going to the one of the bigger more well respected hospitals in the area. He takes her on a forty five minute drive to Sharp's town general which is a new hospital that they. Built obviously forty five minutes away with no ER and know, ic- fucks, John cool. Well, and he would know right because he's the doctor and surgeon. So he knows exactly what hospitals are set up for what? Holy. And how insane? Would that be where he's like, I insist upon taking her and then like later on you find out just drove away and drove you know, far away. So crazy at the hospital when she finally gets there her condition quickly worsens, the doctor switches from thinking that she has the flu to thinking. She's in septic shock six hours after checking into the hospital her kidneys fail. They don't have a dialysis machine because it's the shittier hospital Jones too sick to transport to a different hospital. They decide to begin Perry tonal her or peritoneal dialysis. They need John's permission to perform it because she's not conscious. He had gone back home. And so the doctor calls. The house at nine fifteen pm and tells them to come back to the hospital John leaves right away, quote, unquote, but doesn't arrive to the hospital and till eleven pm what the fuck dick. So by twelve thirty that March nineteenth nineteen sixty nine. They have Joan stabilized, but she isn't improving and then her heart fails at two thirty in the morning. She dies of the sickness, so Texas State law. The time says that anyone who dies within twenty four hours of being admitted to a hospital has to undergo an autopsy before being bombed or buried it real. It is a good rule, but John has Joan taken to a funeral home before anyone as a chance to perform an autopsy within four hours of her debt. Now did he rushes that body over to the funeral home? Then she's in bombed within an hour of arriving at the funeral home. He fast tracked it. So then a doctor shows up at the funeral home to do the autopsy anyway, and he notices there's. Maroon discoloration on her pancreas, and he determines she died. From pancreatitis ash gets other doctors opinions they all say, it's unlikely cause of death for especially for what she had gone through on the morning for funeral March twenty first nineteen sixty nine ask goes to the assistant DA, and his name's ID McMaster, any accuses John hill of killing his daughter. So another doctor comes to perform a second autopsy right before Jones burial. And he determines the cause of death to be acute local hepatitis, which was probably viral. But when McMaster reads the report, he tells us, there's no 'cause that ashed doesn't give up he goes to get another DA in petitions John too, extreme Jones body for third autopsy, but of course, Jon refuses and so Ashqelon doctor from New York to help and because Harris County. Grand jury is also investigating Jones death because it's also suspicious, and because ashram has juice. I mean, like he these are all the people that like it's rich people in that's all those connections where he's like, I'm not letting go, and that means you're not letting so a third autopsy is granted. And this time far more thorough examination has done of the body, and they determined there was a massive infection. But they can't determine the source. They do however conclude the John had gotten Joan if John had gotten Joan to the doctor quicker. She would have lived. So three months after Joan's death, John hill Mary's. In June of nineteen sixty nine three months. So now Ashra Benson is convinced that John hill murdered his daughter and hit the marriage between John and Ann Kurth lasts less than a year. Yeah. So then on April in April of nineteen seventy a grand jury votes to indict John hill on murder by omission, which means his lack of action led to Jones done. Right. That's the only one that can prove they know that happened. So his trial begins on February fifteenth nineteen seventy-one an Kurth, they call her to testify against John. But she goes totally rogue on the stand and instead of just answering the questions that the guys the prosecutors asking her on the stand she claims John had tried to kill her on June thirtieth nineteen sixty-nine by crashing the car into a bridge. And then injecting her with a hypodermic syringe chose says John confessed to her that he killed Joan by lacing. Her pastries with infectious bacteria and injecting her with the bacteria as well. Holy shit. But this they're like boom that it's like just going what no artery exactly people go fucking deserve. And they declare a mistrial because she says all this stuff on the stand to really do that hearsay bucking diabolical. It is so disgusting. And it's like, I'm not using this word. Right. It's smart because you're not poisoning them. Exactly. Not traceable. It's he it's it clearly reflects that. He doctor was doing the murdering because a doctor knows what it looks like when someone dies a non suspicious circumstances. And that was but, but that's the funny thing about the psychopath of the sociopaths when they think they're smarter than everybody. And they don't think it's weird that they go. No, you eat the cheese. Danish. Of course, like, no. I don't wanna not topsy Eunice woolen is like I'm gonna write that in at the time. Of my diary entry tonight. Mona lunatic. Does you don't get subtleties? Yeah. Okay. So they schedule a second trial for November of nineteen seventy seventy-two because it's like ordering over clear the cord everybody, raise your memory, but a few weeks before the second trial is set to start on September twenty fourth nineteen seventy-two. A masked intruder breaks into John hills, home and shoots him dead weight. Okay. Hold up now. So he got sent home in between trial. Yes. And so someone came in fucking killed him. And his name is ash. A mass rubber a mass rubber. I'm doing air quotes at Georgia. Right now masked Robert came in and Sean death in April nineteen Seventy-three. That gunman is finally identified as Bobby Wayne van d'hiver, and he's arrested. Okay. So eventually Vancouver tells police that he was paid five thousand dollars to kill John hill and. He implicates to people their names are Marsha McKittrick and Lilia policies, and and he says, they're the accomplices Vancouver's indicted for murder his trial is set for September of nineteen Seventy-three. And then it's rescheduled to April nineteen seventy four, but he doesn't show up for it. Instead, he just up and moves to Longview Tech's. Why aren't these people in fucking jail while awaiting trial? I don't know they must have posted bail. I think it's because they're rich. And so that's the rich people do not wait in jail during trial. They get to go home. They other fancy lawyers argue for them and get them out on bail bullshit. Will this guy jumps bail moves out of town? He's living in an alias under an alias in Longview, Texas, and when police officer Longview, police officer, John roemer finds him Vanda ver- pulls his gun on the police officer and roemer shoots. First and Kim. Vanderveer? So the police officer killed the guy the murderer basically the the gunman the hired gunmen is now murdered by police officer. Okay. Marsha mckittrick? The getaway driver Vancouver's getaway. Driver is convicted in nineteen seventy four. She's sentenced to ten years. She's paroled after five and then Paulus Lilia policy. Other accomplice is convicted and given thirty five years and she dies in prison of breast cancer in nineteen eighty six and everybody basically in Texas knows for a fact that Ashraf's sin is the men who hired Vandivert to kill Dr John hill. But they cannot prove it and everybody around it is dead. Why they could never prove it. No, oh because along is dead justify against him. Exactly. He can't spill the beans there. Isn't there aren't the people as quickly the surrounding people like there's no trail? No, there's no. For where I to check memo. Ex son-in-law. No, there's no more pastries to be to be handed out. So that basically it's just kind of like this this got taking care of it. I'm sure a lot of people even if they knew the details. Dr John hill is absolutely a creep villain in this story. And there's lots there's so many good articles about how creepy he was all these stories about how creepy. He was. I want to see a photo of these people will. Yes, they look like classic fifties. People like he looks almost like rod sterling plane good-looking. Yeah. Standard Dr dress? And she looks like she looks like a she looks like she was like, Sandra, Sandra Day O'Connor. She. Doris day, Doris day. She looks like doors, but younger and like a little more plot photos up on our Instagram. There have been several books written about this story Thomas Thompson wrote a book in nineteen seventy six called blood and money. But there was also a nineteen Eighty-one made for TV movie. And these are shows you have to see one eighty one tire. Aw plays. Joan and Sam Elliott with no moustache. Mike young Elliott Young Sam Elliott with no moustache plays Dr hill picture him and Andy Griffith plays. Ashrat? Oh, I love who plays the the misuse willin. What are the Eunice played the mistress in the move made for TV movie, the real woman played the no those are the only three I know? But I did when I was prepping this for Jay was sending me all these pictures from that. Yes. Look. Oh, yeah. Doesn't look like Sharon Stone. And I make sure gorgeous. And then look Sam shipper. He's so cute. No Sam, Elliot. That's what I met fan shepherd is a doctor who murdered his family. Yes. Great. There's also shepherd the playwright who's got great actor. Yes. We'll put it up on my favorite murderer Instagram. Also, I just wanna watch it. I couldn't find it anywhere to watch. I want to watch that nineteen Eighty-one Stu retelling the story. Someone listening. This always happens. They're like their moms save their VHS fucking recorded coffee. They send it to us. And it's the best thing that's ever have. So if you have murder in Texas from nineteen Eighty-one, storing, faira faucet and Sam Elliott with no moustache. Rush can't police unto and of our so yes, the VCR like how me and my sister used to have to rent a if we rented videotapes, right? And that is the mysterious yet, very obvious sold. Murder of Joan Robinson hill. Amazing. Yeah. Take coloring your hair at home to the next level with Madison Reed you deserve. Gorgeous. Professional hair-color delivered to your door for less than twenty five dollars decades. Women who had two options for coloring their hair out jaded at home hair-color or the time and expense of the salon many Madison Reed clients comment on how their new hair-color has improved their lives. Women love the results gorgeous, shiny multidimensional, healthy looking hair. Madison Reed delivers gray covering game changing color that you can do at home. And look if you just came from the salon. What makes Madison Reed color unique is that it's crafted by master who blend nuances of dark light, cool and warm to create over forty five gorgeous, multi tone. Josh shades. But Karen, look at my hair right now. Guess what? I did yesterday died that hair Madison Reed that was waiting for you in your bathroom. 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Simply safe will get you. The hope you need got maybe it's overkill, maybe you don't need to be ready for every worst case scenario. Simply safe is always ready. Just in case. That's what makes it great. Now. Simply safe could cost an arm and leg, but it doesn't they charge you what's fair. That's right. Fourteen ninety nine a month, no contracts and no hidden fees. Gotta check it out. Go today to SimpliSafe dot com slash fate. Simplisafe dot com slash fade. Go by. All right. So this when I heard about a while ago. My our friend cat Sola told me about it. And I have ever since been fascinated with it. This is the murder at devils teeth was that no, I don't think. So. Right. Got a bunch of info from there's a website called your Tango. And so many Amy Lamar just posted article about this murder. Pedia webs loose but weird. Nj weird. New Jersey is the people who know the most about this. Yes. And in nineteen ninety eight they got a letter from guy and Billy Martin asking about an urban legend because that's kind of what they do. They talk about the weird crazy, cool shit happening and interesting awesome skies. Like that there's a lot. Yeah. This guy's like, hey, I remember this urban legend from when I was a kid involving dog bringing a body part home to his master in Springfield in the seventies. What is this fucking true? So they started looking into it. And it leads them. Jesse Polack and Mark Moran. Writing death in on the devils teeth hocus story about this murder. Okay. K murder in dirty jurors. That's right. Okay. All right. August seventh nineteen seventy-two air. We are sixteen year old Ginette depalma was about to enter her junior year of high school in Springfield, New Jersey on that day, August seventh. She tells her mother she was planning to take the train to friends house. She never arrives classic fucking story. It million times, it sucks when she fails to return, home that evening, or parents file a missing persons report. And by the way, this is this takes place ten months and one town over from the list family side case, ten months after ten months after like same area and at town over. Yes. So it's like time and place here. We are John talk about cherry hill mall. Just real quick. Do we talk about it? Not in philadel-. He don't talk about cherry hill. Talk about the cherry home all anymore that Karen. Wow. Okay. So this is there's a there's a real devil power center happening already. That's right. So she goes missing. And six weeks later on September nineteenth nineteen seventy two a dog brings its owner a fucking human forearm with the hand attach. So that it was not an urban legend out a bad bad. Boy, you traumatize me for years. I ever whatever song is playing right now. Never be able to hear it. Right. Just yelling at this dog on the Kohner. Did I sorry sidebar? Did I ever tell you about that? My dad had to get a job at my uncle Steve's pizza place when he was no when I was married and my sister, I think I was just born. And my sister was two or whatever. And he was I I think in the fire department maybe hadn't gotten in yet. And my uncle Steve had just bought a Shakey's pizza. And so my dad just worked there and like shirl do and he he said he worked there. It was really hard lake. It was just a really standard job. And he was worried about money all the time. And it was just. Like making pizzas. And he worked with this like young stone or kid who played Creedence Clearwater revival. Nonstop. And my dad literally can't have it on the radio. Like if you're in the car, and it comes on he has to turn it immediately any credence get it has destroyed. My dad it like it puts him back to the time where he thought there was no hope no future. Got it. So sad, I know same thing. But I was had a roommate who would just play moon dance on guitar, Linda. Thing else. I shadow. Yes, I'm being. Think of the sad time in my life. When I was twenty seven and was like, what am I going to do? It's six hundred dollars too much for rent a month. I don't know how to pay this. I hate my roommate. She's a coquette. Okay. What what here's the thing. If you like a song and something bad starts happening. Turn that turn it off really quick make fun. Protect your asset. So where were we human forum in hand horrifies? Brought yes this, of course, leads to discovery of genetics remains, oh, I know poor sweet she's like so beautiful to a post photo. She's just like not that fucking makes a difference, which, you know, she's a spoonful lovely normal sixteen year old and sorry who did the dog bring it the arm to his owner. What was it wasn't a child like an apartment building right behind where she was found in the woods. Okay. Dog was like doing dog nineteen seventy-two dog stuff. Would you go in the woods comes back to his owners apartment? Oh, just everybody everything. Okay. So they lead discovery of genetic remains it's high on a cliff inside of Springfields abandoned, its ho-, Dale Corey. So it's a quarry. That's like what is that? Like a forest reveal a type of situation. Yeah. And the core usually is like a big dugout thing that sometimes has water in it if the if they have if they're not using it anymore. But like, you know, we're just too big gravel pit dug out for rocks. Great. It's abandoned. Okay. There's cliffs it's outdoorsy. Okay. The cliff. There's very few indoor court. That I know of your remember what I did about the cherry hill mall say it's while it's wild running wild and the cliff is named devils teeth because the jagged rocks around it. So it's like way up high, and there's jagged rocks from what it sounds like teenagers would hang out there. Hell Lia and drink and shit. But I'm not totally sure there's not like there's not a ton of confirmed information about this one. Okay. So I'm going to just speculate. Speculate the way, we do so the spot. We're genetics found it's so hard to reach that to retrieve her body. The police had a con a fire truck with a ladder to get her down her. Autopsy doesn't reveal a cause of death because of decomposition, but there's no signs of trauma the corner. Didn't find any trace of alcohol or drugs in her body? But the toxic report did show an unusually high level of lead, which is never fucking explain super weird. Oh, and I I'll tell you later about how I looked into that. Okay. Her body's fully clothed. And when it was found and the corner ruled her cause of death is unknown. But suggested strangulation as a possibility I think that's what he suspected early in the investigation the Springfield police department. There's like a tip regarding a homeless man living in the woods nearby. A man known as red, but he's quickly eliminated as a suspect. And basically, it sounds like he was the only person who really. Like a suspect. So this is when rumors begin to spread in town. And you know, how can towns like this read rumors Heli hawk? That's what they do. It's what therefore and it's nineteen seventy-two. So guess what? Those rumors were about. The mac. Sorry. You're right. That's just a small subset of vehicle. So so rumor speaking to spread that Janette spotty is laid out in a way that suggests Saguenay shit, which is like dude in the seventies. And then especially the eighties. It's ramping up to fuck in satanic panic, these, you know, it's these it's these towns where people are super religious. That's like what their fucking lives revolve around is church and the community and idea of Satan, and the occult and s-, and like satanic rituals are fucking a real threat to the constant in their mind. A real fucking threat. Yeah. Between I'll know isn't really a thing. Right. And oftentimes if there is anything satanic actual satanists are very peace loving, right? And not really about that. And the people that are doing that are usually drug drug addled teens yet are just using that symbolically to like scare each other and themselves. Yes. So they they think that this is real the the room. Spreads that there's a bunch of different accounts. But including that, she was found on a makeshift altar. With a halo of stones around her head anonymous person wrote into weird nj dot com. Website, claiming there was Aero's carved into trees leading to her body, and she was surrounded by dead sacrificed, animals and other ritualistic bullshit. The most common argument is that she was found surrounded by a logs place to be like to look like a coffin around her. And then like someone puts sticks in crosses like all around her almost like setting it up to make it look like it was satanists, which is exactly what someone who is in a satanist would do. Yes. It's basically freak out about this thing and get really scared around it over here look over here look over then I'll just go back over to this store that I work in right Akmal, and then you won't be looking for normal person. 'cause you're looking for a satanic cult. And hey who started those rumors like was it? You might have been you. Right. Right. Well, we'll get to that gossip the real devil. After school special, caring. Okay. Because it was the seventies. And people back then left nothing more than to believe in Satan. These rumors spread like fucking wildfire fire and soon the media can picks up on it too. They're like knowledge in it and saying this is what people think this is what happened and saying it's true and the diplomas so her family were born again evangelical Pentecostal Christians, I don't know if all those three things are the same. They front the it's again subsets the pentecostals are some of the most intense okay versions Christianity rate. So they're pentecostals which is weird in this like suburban mostly Italian Catholic people and they're born again. So they're like ES do that. They're like, I believe that they're extreme sex of Pentecostal sects, Seton SEC t s that those are the snake handlers will. Yeah. And okay king tongues and shit. That's right. So they were okay. So there was a pastor there. The pastor of that congregation named James Tait, and he was totally fire on brimstone, dude. And like, you know, he put on these like sermons that were like fucking exciting, and you're gonna go to hell with the devil or and time than a handful of glitter. Feddie just ended out three hole punch. It's not going to be this fun. It's not gonna be this. You get you'll get a glittering ill stick their you ever had like a card full of glitter. And then you've glitter on your. You were thinking, but this is noxious that's a living. Hell, and that's what you're entering. That's satan. Satan is a fucking envelope. Full of glitter. I tell you about the time my sister Snead's, she's news and she sneezed glitter grammar school teacher. That's amazing as an ex Raver, I presume. And respect it respect to your sister. Okay. So there were evangelical Pentecostal people and genetics genetic parents were super into it Ginette attended services with her parents right Yuli and was ball involved in the youth group. So there there's this thing about her that it's like half the people are like she was a wild child. She was like rebellious in crazy in the other half are like she was really religious and going to church, but it sounds like is she had been kinda partier and smoked pot and all the shit and then right before her her murder had started to go to church and kinda get over that phase of her life. So, but it doesn't sound like she was ever really like like a bad girl in any way. She was just hanging out listening Led Zeppelin smoking pot everyone in the fucking seventies. Did yes. And and I think the could have been simultaneous where she was because her family was very really, that's usually how it happens in. That's what you're rebelling against. Like, if you're if you're in like, a born again, Christian type of family, whatever it gets real real strict and narrow and so there could have been however it happens, I'm line wise. Those things go together right billion and hardcore, you know, button-down religion, just like she was a normal teenage girl age in area. And so the pastor and the parents help fuel the Tanic fucking panic in town. Yes, pastor James Tait is quoted in papers from back then describing Ginette as quote, extremely religious in a very devout Parisian. Are he goes on to say that he believes a group worship the devil in the woods where genetic found Ginette may have tried to quote lecture them about Jesus? He says, quote, I'm sure Janette herself was not involved in anything like that. But I know that many of the other young people in the area are involved, Mike. How do no one's telling you about their fucking satanism, dude. It's this kind of thing. That's just like it's just there's no tolerance for other people not for the struggles that other going through and also no tolerance for kids and and teenagers of your own communities, basically saying, let's source out. The the anybody weird from right? Yeah. You're and if they're young, and they can't defend themselves, or they, you know, if they do go out in the woods because their parents aren't around ever Satan. Let's get the weakest of our community and just load all this on. But it's also a warning to all the fucking parish the kids the people in congregations hang if you walk out of this fucking. Church. If you don't stay in here. If you don't give us the money, we're asking for if you don't pray as much as we're telling you to you're going to become like these other people. So you better fucking stay here. Right. And meanwhile, we all know, and we've heard so many of these stories that it's like it's never it's never that. No. And you're basically misdirecting like the entire communities mindset about something that is a murder that needs to get solved. Right. Actually, exactly. You know, there's probably law enforcement on in this who are in that church. Sure. Do you know what I mean? So they believe all that. Okay. So he says these kids tell us that that when they are on drugs. They are in the control of Satan did things they didn't wanna do because of the power of the of evil, which I'm sorry. I just fucking saw my popcorn ceiling moving around when I was on C Satan. I mean, I've been filled with the double since day one. But that's on me. I mean, I realize it's kind of fun. It's it's always felt like a little bit of a tickle. That's right. The article went on to say that both Ginette and her older sister had drug problems, which were quote solved a few years before when the entire family converted to the church of God, so rebellious kids, and they were like we're going to help you. So this pastor ran an evangelical outreach program that ministered to adolescent substance abusers. He did it. For real. I think so get out of there. Okay. How does he know how to help substance abuse? Right. It's not his area of net for teas. And it's possible that genet- worked on that with him. So like she might have been involved in that. So he claimed that quote Janette had Ginette may have been a symbol of Christ to these devil worshippers. And that's why they killed her meeting. She fucking happened upon them. And they were like smoking pot and shit. And she was like Jesus loves you and then killed her. Because of that that's not a thing that doesn't happen when no one needs conjecture as point. Sorry, New Jersey. It's not that fucking. It's not that. Careful. Let's not mess with the state of New Jersey nineteen seventy I'm not talking about. Now took people can't fight us. Great. Later when he's interviewed for this book that I told you about death on devils teeth. He changes his whole fucking story and says that she was definitely involved with some occult things. It's so strange that she wanted to be involved with that, especially when her family was getting so involved with the Lord, which sister say isn't Trish, her sister's like she had no fucking occult books. She didn't have devil worship bullshit nothing. No. So the Tate son who's now pastor as well goes on to say that they dated is as teens right before she disappeared. He said we dated for several months. I cared deeply for her. She was an awesome young lady. She broke up with me because we could not see each other enough. I was sad about breaking up in holding out hope that she would return, and maybe we could get the relationship going again. But it was not to be. She was missing for six weeks than her remains were discovered. So many he saying like they were breaking up while she disappeared like come. Oh cows come you look into that a little bit? Yeah. They're all still alive. So I'm not going to say their names. That's a good idea. So genetic parents were insanely religious and believe the Satan angle, MRs depalma told a reporter that genet- may have met her death by persons possessed by the devil. So of course, the fucking town goes ape shit. Yeah. Right. And everyone's losing their mind over it. Some have accused her church of having something to do with the whole thing like we've been talking about. And the saying that the pastors like fervor around the Satan thing is just a distraction the weird thing that's not mentioned in some of these articles about the story is that nine days after Ginette disappeared. Another young woman went missing nearby. Twenty four year old Joan Kramer. She was a graduate student Columbia when she was last seen August fifteenth nineteen seventy-two hitchhiking home after she'd stormed off after a fight with her fiance, just as fucking heart. AM she walked about a mile, and then called a girlfriend about midnight to say she was going to taxis. Take her home. But witnesses say they saw a man drive up in a car and ask her if she needed ride. I mean, it was a seventies. Everyone fucking to that yet. She was missing for thirteen days when to teens found her body lying face down secluded wooded area along the Elizabeth river, five miles from her home and six miles from where genetic body was found while and that was nine days later. Okay. They didn't connect the two. An autopsy indicated that she had been strangled, which is what they thought had happened to Ginette. And there are other similarities they were both, you know, beautiful brunette parted on the middle hair, which is like seventies normal. Both ought to be strangled. And and both ladies had been missing their necklaces. Ooh. Yeah. Trophy. Uh-huh. So for for the murder of Joan. The second Joan Kramer, disgraced and drunken is how is described disgraced end drunken accountant. Yes. How his described the only people I wanna party, right? His name was auto Nilsson. He had a long history of mental instability in domestic violence. He's identified as the person who picked up Joan Kramer that night only because detect detectives or like, hey, he looks like a composite sketch who let's follow him. Let's arrest him. Let's bring him to trial. Yes. No ono. I know it's not good because he's not he didn't pick her up. Can't just base it on the composites again looks like it. It's okay. But they're saying they're saying he's the one that picked up purely because he looks like, okay. I'm sorry. Yes. No, I must've. I probably didn't say that. Well, they basically you look like this picture, you are the person that right? And you have some you know, you have a history of mental instability violence great. This is our guy. Let's get him. And let's make the town stop worrying about the murderer on the loose. And you on this guy. Exactly. So he's. Great rate. I need this thing. So sorry. I can't with that. Okay. He's arrested and tried for her murder that juries like sorry. We're going to need more information than that. And he gets acquitted good. He's released. My mind now that I understand what we're doing. Kind of people. Now, you realize that we're in. What is it? Twenty nineteen nineteen seventy-two. It's not nineteen seventy two. He is committed to a state psychiatric hospital in Trenton. He stays there. Dies in nineteen Ninety-two. Let's so something was going on with him. Yeah. And despite this crazy fervor and insanity surrounding them of Jeannette depalma. It quickly goes cold. The case isn't closed, of course. But the case files for her murder are destroyed by flooding during hurricane Floyd in nineteen ninety nine. So there's no there the files are gone. Oh, no. I know and to this day people in that area won't fucking talk about it because they are convinced that it's a sate satanic ritual. It satanist it's witches it's an occult murder. So they won't even talk about it. 'cause they're scared of that. No, which I think is the perfect fucking cover for someone who has nothing to do with the fucking a colts. Yes. And it's just a murderer or perhaps the opposite of the Colt someone involved in a church. Jess, right. And so you know, how I said that they found. Hi, the high traces of lead in her body. So I went down the fucking rabbit hole of exercises. Is there ever led anything lead used in? It couldn't find anything Adly, but how solid. Yes, exactly. You're like, well, I'm the one that made the connection where holy water is filled with little just confetti lead totally water that I mean that would be that'd be satisfying. But that's like, you're right. It's the perfect setup. Where you set you? You light the fuse of devil worship little crosses with sticks. That's all you have to do. Right. And everyone that bomb goes off. And then that's all anyone a look at. And meanwhile, there's just somebody probably sitting in that town or two towns away, that's a serial killer. Right or could have kept on going. There's so many. I looked up like new because there were some other couple other murders of young girls in the area and the time, and I went to a website that's just scrolling and scrolling scrolling of fucking young women in New Jersey who were murdered around that time, and it's like pick any of them in there. So K, so many cases, home and cold cases. And there's two serial killers that are like the torso killer. Like, it's just buck. Up yet. Yeah. There's so much of it. I am drinking canned wine your life easier. It really does. And that's the devils teeth murder, aka the murder of Jeannette depalma. Wow. Fucking cat Solan who our friend wanted to make a whole like true crime puppet show. Yeah. And have that be like a serious one? Have that be the first case? And she told me about it. And I was like oh my God. This is insane. I remember she was talking about that. Because she's does these amazing stop motion and puppet shows. She's such incredible artists that would be so cool enough before. Yeah. Yeah. Her show is the shivering truth on dealt swim. If you wanna check it out. It's fucking awesome. Amazing. You won't believe what she made its with Vernon chatman. Yeah. From who is one of the creators of wonder shows and who ever loved wonder shows in which you better have fucking. And you know, Vernon he's one of the first comics ever met. Really? Yeah. I did it a competition with him in citrus heights. Like three months after I started stand up comedy in nineteen ninety is weird. I know citrus heights only because of Michelle McNamara's book. No, it's not Golden State killer. It's one of the reasons I hate Sacramento's. Because of the Golden State killer. Yes, I resent his crime. That's fair. I took a personally. Okay. So we do some fucking Jerez suet. I'm not. I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to put this in words correctly because this is a different thing than that thing. We talked about of saying thank you to live show our live audiences and this massive five month tour that we've been on. That's just wrapping up where our next our final weekend is next week, which is amazing. But there was a moment when we were at those Dallas shows when we were in the meet and greet. And I had this weird moment where in the way I tried to explain it to Georgia real time. Was it suddenly felt like I caught up to what was happening he'll time, and it almost made me cry because these girls walked up women, and they started talking, and it's just it's a thing. That's to us now, normal and natural. But he's stand back from it a little bit for us. It's insane. That we even do that. And they wanna meet right? And that and that they get excited in the nave stuff to tell us, and there's a lot of really big positive energy. Yeah. But I think my way of dealing with either negative or positive energy is accepting. None of it and just being like, no all these stores are shy. And I'm just gonna get through this L process later on by my side, literally talked new therapist about that today because it's a lot to Societa ding. You disassociate when you don't understand what this new reality is. And this has been you know, we talk about this all the time. But in this moment almost felt like I no longer had this fear of how overwhelming and huge these feelings are and it was like who it felt so good. And I think it was a couple very young women. Have lately told us that they're proud of us in those, and it's very genuine, very sweet. And it is that feeling of like because people always walk up and go like, you don't know us. But I know you, and we always say in its hokey. But we're always like, no, we come no. No, you and. Yeah, you know, we know each other. And that's we're all this kind of. We're all we're all type of person sensitive pay attention to to gruesome things, we know each other type of person. And so I just had this moment that that it's felt like almost like really concentrated gratitude and appreciation and kind of like wonderment all at once where I was standing like a couple of feet back. And then I was like you're I was gonna start crying that. I'm like you will make this so weird if your run crying and the meeting. So I had to pull down the those metal of the window coverings that the businesses have on Hollywood Boulevard, I pull those down internally and just go don't cry right now because that's for them. Yep. I'm fine. Yes. Don't look away. But it really was a very cool moment because it was just like the reality of this life that we have now, which is awesome and cool. But it's hard. It's hard to feel the reality of it from the insomnia just been on gogo mode. Yeah years. Yeah. We haven't had a chance yet to like to contemplate it. Right. Like, I haven't had a chance to go to yoga and meditate on it. No. It's been so crazy. Yeah. And that's our excuse way. We haven't been doing. I love yoga. I love you. Doing it. Any moment is need me. I love it. And there's lots of people that come up in there. Like, I started yoga because. But whatever I guess overall. It's just it's like a another one of those gratitude moments, but it was very powerful. Because it was like it was just that feeling what a great fucking thing to fall into in how how ideal it is is an experience because it really I just love every goddamn aspect of it. Yeah. Yeah. That's beautiful things. I almost don't want. I'd almost want right on yours. No, get off mine. You do your own. No, we have one worse as kind of rich down and he bought his that. I share with you that went broke. But he I this Palomino. Leg. Your sister. Get on the horse with you. Karen, Karen, let your sister get on the horse. Let's do that. No, say something. My what's your real one? Okay. Well, my Bearup is died six months ago. Yeah. And it's been weird and hard and part of the the wall that putting up around everything you just said is included in that. It's like I can't deal with this right now. But it hits me sometimes. And it's big. And so two things happen. One is at the grand old Opry show her mom came because her niece heard do a little dedication to her. And we realized it was her Kim that is talking about and played it for her mom, and so they drove all the way to come to the show in Nashville yet. And I gotta meet her in hug her and it just meant so much to me. And the other thing is that I was given a token of hers that actually had always meant a lot to meet this beautiful necklace with this. Nice gorgeous stone. It's a black amethyst. I think it's beautiful. Yeah. And I had really lovely necklace. It's and it was gifted to me last week. And it just meant it means so much to me. And I'm I can't wait till I ca- process feelings around that. But yeah, I know they're going to be heavy and hard when when I do. Yeah. And it's just it's it feels meaningful that. I think that I can carry on what she gave me which is an understanding of my place in the world, and what gratitude means and how to deal with the hugeness of life and the heaviness of of being vulnerable yet. And so I really appreciate that of her, and yeah, that's that's beautiful. Will it's true. It's like the. You know, we were talking about just before we started taping where it's just like it just never stops coming. So we think we keep thinking or I should say I keep imagining that you you work, really hard. And then you get into a safe space. And it's like in that you I am Agean that that is all my work in therapy or in business, or whatever is it's buying me safety from vulnerabilities safety from bad things happening safety for but that is never gets to happen. And there's no you can't guard against it. And you can't pulling down the metal walls of your emotional store. If you do that too much they will rust shut, and as a person who felt like when I went into their be that those walls could never come back up again for many great reasons yet, it's it's you what you're doing in my opinion, watching you having to walk through this horrible thing. But it feels to me like you're taking the thing. She wanted you to know. No, the most and really keeping those in the forefront. Yeah. As you kind of process, or or, you know, not process, right? Well, it's the thing of like when you put those metal gates down. It doesn't keep you from bad things happening. It just as that when they happen. And it's say it's the end enjoy any of it. Right. And you didn't get experience it fully and used to end you for my the way mine work. I cut myself off from relationships because I decide that's what's not safe. Right. That this is what's going to happen? I'll controlled this this amount of pain. Yeah. Because that's where all the pain comes from like other people fucking dying or disappointing you or or rejecting you whatever. When actually you're cutting yourself off from the only thing that can make you feel better. Yeah. And those things of them dying and rejecting and disappointing is like if you felt them with your whole heart, you know, with the outcome be the same. Or would you just be more grateful for the experience? Since rather than seeing how fucking shitty was right. Right. And we said that before, but it's like it is the going through life. If you can. And it takes a lot with the idea that this could happen at any minute. You should live like it could happen any minute. And I do not an anxiety way. Right. To new way. Yeah. It's a new way. But you had to learn that lesson the worst possible way. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. To big stuff heavy shit. This is not just a podcast. We're more than a podcast where book we're book now too. We're book and a website and exactly right podcast network. Please go listen to the murder squad and the per cast and the fall line, and do you need a ride and this podcast will kill you. We're of course, our new venture for the brand. Which is our metal rolling door company that we're gonna open. They cost five thousand dollars. He wants special graffiti on it. Well, it's extra. We just cater recover build them to your personal emotional specifications. Roll them up roll them. Let's all rural or emotional metal doors up together. Yes. And and flash. Each other our our soul to our soul to that's right. Great. We've done it. Right. He did it done. Thank you so much. We love you. Yes. Thank you for listening and stay sexy. Go. This. He want to cook. Good.