245: Youre not healthy if youre not breathing right | James Nestor, NYT bestselling author of Breath: The New Science of a Lost Art
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Introducing else nutrition the I clean label plant based nutrition drink for complete nutrition beyond the first year. James Nassar has written for outside Scientific American, the Atlantic Dwell The New York, times not to mention his appeared on national TV shows including ABC's nightline and CBS Morning News, and his latest book breath. The new science of a lost art is a runaway bestseller and just might be one of the most important books of twenty twenty as we focus on our breath as it's a powerful tool to strengthen our immune system I am beyond excited that he's with us today as we explore the power of our breath. James Welcome. So great to have you here. Thanks for having me. So I love your book I'll start there everyone listening. Talk about right book right time, right message, a powerful read breath the new science of a lost art. I gotTa say you had me at the title. But the the book is phenomenal. We're going to talk about it the let's start the the why and your personal journey journey is pretty powerful. Let's let's start there the why behind the book was actually two things that happened that inspire me to to go deeper into breathing research. First one is I had a very weird experience while ago ten eleven years ago I had been having chronic respiratory problems I, surf a lot exercising lot eating, right but I was having all these breathing difficulties. So a doctor suggested I go and check out a breathing Klassen. As I was in that class after about ten minutes just breathing in this rhythmic pattern. I just started sweating profusely like crazy far far beyond anything like jogging working out some other kind of sweat little disarming but also pretty fascinating and no one could really describe what happened I asked my doctor. She gave me a bunch of the explanations that didn't make any sense because she didn't really know but it wasn't until several years after that. That I met free divers who showed me the true. Capacity a breath and the the true potential of it they were able to harness breath to hold their breath for a nine minutes at a time dived adapts far below would scientists thought were possible but they said the applications of breathing also extended. To Land You could help us it to heal yourself to heat yourself to do all of these incredible things. So I got more interested when out into the field. But. You had like serious respiratory issues. It was definitely message personas pretty active. It was becoming an issue with your health and Wellbeing Yeah and I just thought it was a normal part of being everyone I knew either had chronic sinusitis or they had asthma or they were getting bronchitis just like me. I. I had mild pneumonia year year after year just a mild form of right when it slips from bronchitis and pneumonia I was able to took took the Z pack moved on and and so many people have such chronic respiratory problems. It's so prevalent right now that we're not really paying attention to it it's. Just, considered normal but the more I started peering into this this field and talking with the researchers said, there's nothing normal about species being constantly plugged up or mouth breathing or having all of these other issues. So that's something that that slowly revealed itself at the beginning of the research was not only the potential where breathing could bring us but how poorly were breathing the vast majority of us are breathing right now. So a couple points so you talk about capacity and in the book. There's amazing data in here and you say twenty seven departments at the National Institute of Health the NIH devoted to lung is skin disease ears on and on. But nose and sinuses aren't represented in any of them, which is mind blowing because even another great data point where between ages thirty and fifty, we lose twelve percent of her capacity with women bearing far worse than men, and if we make it to eighty, it's like who would sign up for eighty right now you know that's pretty good. I'm there but then we lose thirty percent were able to take in thirty percent less air than we did in our twenties so. Mind blowing how have we not been focused on this? Because, we're focused on pathologies and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that like I I love. Western science. I love Western medicine I, think it's fan. I probably won't be alive without it. You know when you have a cancer or you have to have a lung transplanted, what a wonderful thing, all these technologies are but my father-in-law's a pulmonologist my brother-in-law works at. An Er says an ER doctor and they said, you know you get help when you really really need help. If you have mild chronic issues, it's Kinda like comeback when you really bad and we can help you in the meantime take this in that and it's just GonNa help abate the sin, the symptoms, and so this is widely known. This is not controversial what I'm saying it's They don't have the capacity to to really train people in breathing a you about doctors. He's fifteen patients in our about five minutes with each patient can't sit down with them and say, okay, let's take a deep breath in and take a deep. It's not going to happen. So I believe in the West that's one of the main reasons we have not heard about breathing breathing therapy and breathing awareness, same problems with nutrition and all those other. Same thing we don't have time it's all and especially with Kobe right now nutrition is coming to the forefront and. Breath work needs to come to the forefront. Absolutely, and it is because you know as as Westerners we only really get interested something when we're about to fall off the cliff then when I woke. Okay maybe we should focus on breathing but you know preventative maintenance is the best way to go with with anything and that certainly holds true for breathing and just the difference that you can make to your immune function to how your body operates to your lung and your lung capacity by breathing properly is it's an enormous difference. So I if we rewind a bit where did we go wrong so let's talk about the history of breath when and why did we stop breathing correctly? Yeah I had always thought that it was environmental or psychological tied to anxiety, which is true and it's really smoggy places. It's hard to breathe properly and you can have a bunch of respiratory problems to that. But one story was not expecting to find in this book I thought I had had it all all carved out before I went into the field because that's nonfiction works. Book proposal then you go out and write about it. It's completely wrong. Add to throw out about six months of research once I discovered that. So much of the blame has to do with our evolution it's anatomical and by that I mean our faces over the past few hundred years about four hundred years have been shrinking, shrinking, shrinking, growing longer Maoz of growing smaller. That sounds nuts because a lot of people say, what is the evolutionary advantage of a mouse shrinking because evolution means progress? But it completely does not. It Means Change and we've been changing but not in ways that benefit our health at all. If you look at the number of chronic diseases out there if you just look at our faces if you look at your teeth. So if you looked at it skull that was older than four hundred years, go back four, thousand years forty thousand years doesn't matter. It's going to have straight teeth. There's about a ninety nine point nine percent chance it's going to have. Straight teeth, no wisdom teeth extracted. No braces straight teeth, huge mouth, modern schools ninety percent of them have some form of Malik collusion, which means some sort of crookedness in their teeth problems with their jaws because our Maoz have grown. So small that teeth don't know where to go so that growing crooked and the other problem with having a mouth, it's too small is your airway as too small, which makes it harder to breathe. You look at sleep apnea look at snoring look at. Some forms of asthma chronic sinusitis because we are so plugged up here and it's a shocking thing for people who don't believe this because I didn't believe I went looked at hundreds of ancient skulls in modern skulls but you can just go online and look look at ancient skulls look at the teeth of ancient skulls and then go look in the mirror ago look at your family or go look on the street and see our teeth are and so to summarize breathing through the mouth. Not, not so good breathing through the nose good in in simplest terms for the in the in the simplest terms. Yes. Just like any other of the fifty, four, hundred different mammals out there they all breathe through the nose. We have become mouth breeders because one of the reasons czar miles of grown. So small, there's less room back there also environmental as as well ADENOID skit inflamed tonsils get inflamed chronic sinusitis. You have to breathe through your mouth and breathing through the mouth is bad news you can. You just talk about that. Curious. Like what happens I think it's like three seconds between an inhale and exhale and average. I want to say so I have not right at like what happens when you do that through the mouth verses. Do the nostrils What's that? If, you were to cut a human skull in in half and and look at it. You would see this enormous amount of space about the size of a billiard ball though smaller than a tennis ball. That takes up Oliver sinuses even come up here. So in that space, you would see this labyrinth. It looks so similar to a shell that this is called the nasal cold Joe. And our noses function. So similar to seashells which help keep invaders out, which is why they have that long maze leading to the the organism that's inside of it. Our noses do the same thing. So this is not a straight line into the back of our throat. It has to this air has curve twist as it's doing that it's getting heated up we are removing particulate we are adding moisture to it. So by the time, it reaches our lungs it is conditioned so that we can absorb so much more of that oxygen more efficiently. So it's also harder there's that pressure. That pressure is good. You get the negative pressure that vacuum. Coming in and the positive pressure coming out that pressure helps push push the tissues in the airway back a little further in open up the airway. So all of these things allow us to get about twenty percent more oxygen breathing equivalent breast through the nose than we do through the mouth. Like you're built-in filtration system if you will. It's not not only filtration so I can h vaccine. So it's it's filtration, but it's but it's also pressurizing in conditioning and it's just it's digesting in some ways that that air before it gets the lungs and you can think of the lungs is almost like an external organ, right? If you're breathing through your mouth. There's no pressure, there's no filter there's there's minimal heat minimal moisture and you are exposed whatever is in your environment. If you live in a city live in a place with lot of pollutants and a lot of viruses in the air, you don't WanNa breathe this this raw unfiltered air at all and most of us are breathing through our mouths. when it comes to children is probably over fifty percent depends on the study they vary bud the estimates are around twenty five to two on the higher end fifty percent of the population. Are Habitual mouth breeders and this is not only will it expose you to this this untreated air. But if you do it when you're a kid are like this, it will affect the skeleton pitcher and how your face grows. Yeah, it's so common. It's called ADENOID face. When you're adenoids get inflamed, you can only breathe through your mouth these kids go like this and and it's you can. You can. Once you see this, you can spot it wherever. A while so It's July or August. It's August twenty. This is what happens in cove everything just blends in. August twenty twenty. Co vid and the power of the breath and so in my mind as I mentioned earlier on this, this needs to be at the forefront. So can you talk a little bit about? What research is out there and why breath needs to come to the forefront in the context of Kobe and strengthening our immune system and our ability to stave off this terrible virus. Sure. So the person whom on Nobel laureate Louis IGNARRO. Won The won the award for his work in nitric oxide. In the nineteen nineties in he released a new wasn't a study. It was an opinion paper, a summary of his research and how breeding can help defend us against things like viruses and he believes it could help directly defend us against covid in certain ways. So by doing that. Beyond, what the knows does humidifiers air conditioning at all all slowing down all of that. It also releases a profusion of Nitric Oxide, which is this amazing molecule the place in a central role in Vaso dilation, and also nitric oxide also interacts with with pathogens with viruses. So when SARS rolled around and what was it two, thousand and four they were exposing. Cells to nitric oxide in those cells in that presence were able to live so much longer. So so ignarro believes that by breathing through the nose, we can not only help bolster our immune function, but we can also help defend us against this this virus, another element of of nasal breathing when you're breathing through the mouth and especially when you're breathing too much. You tend to place your your body and estate of stress. So your body associates that breathing too much as stress which causes inflammation. so by breathing through the nose and having that boost of nitric oxide, you can reduce inflammation you can breathe more efficiently. You can keep yourself in a state where your body is able to better heal itself and defend itself, and this is so important. Dr Steven porridges. Well, known researcher has been talking about the role of breathing in and and health immune health in the age of Kobe. So you mentioned stress and. Look were. So, many people are anxious right now as generation anxiety and rightfully rightfully. So there's a lot to be anxious about. So, can you talk a bit about? How the way we breathe can affect anxiety. Yeah. So populations who have fear based disorders anxiety even. anorexia panic and also asthmatics will traditionally be breathing far more than they need to, and they also tend to mouth rate. So by by breathing that much again, you're placing your yourself in into the state of of stress and they found that by simply changing their breeding habits to breathe slower and Tabriz less, they were able to really attenuate so many symptoms of both anxiety, an asthma work of a leash, Meerut at southern Methodist University bunch of research in this, and the reason is it's not just psychosomatic. A placebo. If you right now take a breath into Canada about three. and Xl. Account. About Eight Just. Real slowly. Now do that again and place your hand over your heart. into about three now exile to count about ten maybe you're gonNA. Feel your heart slowing down. The longer you exile the more slowly breathe. So that is because you're eliciting that Paris sympathetic side of your nervous system and that's the side that reconnects all your organs with your brain that increases circulation to all of these other organs less needed in the fight or flight stimulation on the sympathetic state, and you can simply do this by breathing and we know it's not a placebo effect or whatever. Because you can measure what happens to your heart rate variability breathing in very slow breasts new can measure what happens to your blood pressure within a couple minutes. I've been able to to plummet my blood pressure about ten to fifteen points in some people even more, and again if you don't believe me put a cuff on. When you're talking or when you're at work, hang out for a few minutes breathe at a rate of about six seconds in six seconds out even longer if if you want and check your blood pressure afterward, specially effective for people who have higher blood pressure like me so. I'm sold on on on breath work and. I'm assuming audience is chomping at the bit right now saying, okay I'm in how do we increase lung capacity where where do I start? So I'M GONNA go back to the free divers. They're like the pros Lebron James of lung capacity. increasing. By thirty to forty percent. So how how can we do what Ray-ban were not capable? You tell me how how can we? How can we achieve that? Yeah. So I I saw free divers I was at this competition and there were small people there. There were told people there. There were large people there. There were small people that found from any different country. You name it from Venezuela to Russia, whatever they all had these enormous chess. It didn't matter what's they were not born this way. Okay they did. This by power of will Herbert Nitsch has a lung capacity of about twelve leaders and the average adult male lung capacity is about six. He was not born with twelve leader lungs so and and it's so obvious seeing this from free divers. So if you look at what Yoga is and what was I intended to be, it was a technology breathing. Period this Vanessa flow in all of that that came about about one hundred years ago and people are like, no, it's not. It's ancient. It's not. So what you do yoga is you stretch stretch open your ribcage. And he breathe into one side and then you stretch and breathe into the other. So if you're doing yoga, you're already helping to stave off that entropy in your lungs. Okay. light exercise has been found to increase it about fifteen percent lung capacity, but the the key is not to do these forced. Really hard brass like I'm just going to kick my lungs but I'm just GonNa go for it It's to take these very soft breasts and loosen up your ribcage and loosen up all these muscles slowly, and you can do this by extending the range of your diaphragm. So if you take your hands and you place your thumbs toward your back and put them up, will stand up here. Put them up like that. And you breathe in through your nose what you want is your hands to move laterally Patrick McEwen, renowned breeding therapist showed this to me not just your stomach coming out which which we know in Yoga. Moving out laterally. That is the most efficient and most most profound die from attic movement, and that is going to allow you to access more of your lungs and it's another reason why these slower deeper breasts are so important is because. Blood is gravity dependent and the lower lobes of your lungs are going to be able to absorb more oxygen than higher up than all of this dead space. So you can get a lot more oxygen with a lot fewer breasts which saves your body, a lot of wear and tear if you breathing properly. So Dome Pre through the heart breathe through your stomach sensually. Slow and low this this show, I, love it. So. Just just ahead of four warning because I've gotten a few hundred emails about this is. When you're practicing a running Ahmed technique or you're practicing are practicing to more whatever and you're these settings heavy breathe through your mouth or they have you. Lion Breath they have you breathe through your chest perfectly fine. Because that's technique I'm talking about habitual chronic habits and slow low in in less is is what you want. Hey everybody. Thanks for tuning in. We're just GONNA take a quick little break to hear word from our sponsor. This. Episode of the PODCAST is supported by visits on valley. With international travel off the cards were embracing the beauty of our own backyard and Sun Valley. Idaho is at the top of my summer escapes bucket list the laid back mountain town both massive expanses of wilderness and quiet trails. You can roam free and rejuvenate and nature exactly the deep side. We all need in two thousand and twenty plus there are plenty of healthy cafes and restaurants offering local organic and sustainable fair for outdoor dining or takeaway head to visit Sun Valley Dot Com to find out more about this magical destination. Now back to the PODCAST. So. I'm glad you brought up chronic habitual habits because I'm so curious how did you start? HOW SHOULD WE START? What do you recommend someone listening saying? All right I want to start breathing through my nose and properly and low right now. I think the key is to acknowledge it, and that's why set up the book. This way is to say, Hey, we've got all these breathing issues that that aren't being acknowledged or realized retreating all these other symptoms attached to breathing. But if we treat the breathing itself, we can take care of so many of these other problems. So once you acknowledge it and Recognize it. You can then become aware of how reading throughout the day and just that awareness is a huge game changer. I found that my breathing was so erratic throughout the day I was wearing a pulse ox engaging had all the stupid geared to gauge exactly what was happening especially sending down at a computer in the morning there's something called email apnea which. Eighty percent of office workers has where he breathing just just goes to hell the moment you sit down our fifty twenty on instagram's on and that's when you you really need to focus the most and get your breathing down. So. Acknowledging it becoming aware of it, and then you know as I laid out in the foundation of the book nasal breathing. I don't care if you're working out I, don't care if you're jogging if you're doing cross fit, it is so much more efficient to be breathing through your nose. All the time may take you while to get there but once you get there, this is the pathway that we've evolved debris. Then go get other animals look at a horse when it's at a full sprint, it's not breathing from its mouth dogs will open their mouths to thermo regulate look at them when they're sleeping So after after the knows you want xl more a lot of people think deep breaths are just. Putting air on air on air. You want to live that diaphragm up when you xl take a full exile so that you can sink it down a little more when you're sinking down the diaphragm, you're able to massage those organs in. This is something I just learned that I'm GonNa be putting in that new edition of the bug, but you're able to massage those the organs in a certain way and stimulate more lymph fluid. Release Oh. This is a way of detoxifying your body. Your diaphragm works like a pump to get rid of lymph fluid. So I could go on with the other have fan this topic near you know I I love it. I'm curious. How long did it take you to get from a habitual mouth breather and I'm curious were you back then like ninety mouth and nose and where are you today and how long did it take? Yeah I knew that at night it was one hundred percent mouth I knew this because I thought it was normal forever. WanNa go to sleep with just a huge bottle of water by the bedside and wake up with a dry mouth hit. Go back to sleep wake up. Nothing normal about that. So that was the first thing I took care of, and that's the first thing I suggest people take care of once you're aware of it. That's a good start in daytime but a lot of third of your life, your breathing, your snoring, you have sleep apnea reading through your mouth. That's the first thing. First thing to do what I found that was very helpful was to place. A little piece of tape on my lips to help train my jaw shut. This does not mean a fat piece of duct tape. The sound sketchy people think at some hostage situation no no, no The I heard about this from the doctor speech language pathology at Stanford and I heard about it from a ton of other doctors since then so this is blue painter's tape I. Wish I had some? Real to you don't have to use this stuff I just found this on my wall, but the means doing this just placing it are can still breathe if I want. I can cough can talk but you just want to train your Josh shut at night and this alone I've heard from so many people has been a complete life changer for people who some of them aren't snoring anymore some of them their. SLEEP APNEA has gone down eighty ninety percent. So so how long did it take you and and what are you now? Are you eighty twenty year if you had to guess, I would you know writing a book about breathing people thank you the best super breather on the planet I'm not I'm a I'm a journalist who went into this field and talked to some supervisors talked to a bunch of scientists. but I still have work to do. I think I was a poor breather for so long I would like to think that I'm aware of my breathing all the time right now talking to you, I'm reading a lot through my mouth because that's what happened. So I'm aware of that and I'll be sure to establish some proper breathing habits after this interview So when I'm working out, I'm aware of. It all the time. So I I would like to think I'm just not during the daytime. I'm just not breathing through my mouth unless I'm talking or laughing, which is fine and at nighttime, I know him not breathing through my mouth at all 'cause I still use the tape I thought I could just train myself after a few weeks is a couple of years and I still use the stuff every single night. And so you mentioned nighttime sleep. Can you talk about the connection between proper bat breath and how it can affect your sleep? Yeah, I found this study which I thought was. So. Interesting and really frightening by the Mayo Clinic and they found that half of people with insomnia had undiagnosed sleep apnea. That's why they couldn't sleep at night and half of the people with sleep apnea had insomnia. So. They of twelve hundred subjects they look at they looked at nine hundred were given a pharmaceutical drug to an antidepressant assess awry or something else to relax them turns out that these drugs made their sleeping much worse 'cause they relaxed them too much. So every single one of them they said were failing this treatment and were getting worse and worse and Worse because they had undiagnosed sleep apnea. So we are just starting to people starting to talk about sleep. Now, how important is and all of that one hundred percent correct I view the the first pillar of sleep is you have to be breathing well, you have to be not be struggling to breathe when you're talking about fifty percent of a population snoring. Quarter having choking on itself from sleep apnea and also another even larger suffering from Upper Airway Resistance Syndrome. This is such such bad news and a lot of it. I don't know how much is associated with a pathway through which breathing I saw that in the Stanford experiment. Opening your mouth. You can do it right now when you open your mouth, your tongue naturally falls back a little deeper into the throat. When you close your mouth, the tongue naturally will go up towards the palate which opens the airway. So just just the pathway through which we breathe this isn't going to help someone with with extreme obesity. Or with with very severe sleep apnea. But for those who have mild or moderate, it can really make a huge difference sleeping on your side, not sleeping on your back inclined bed therapy. The these are things that are freely available to anyone and they had been absolute life changes for so many people. So you mentioned techniques earlier, I'm curious your take on some of the popular breathing techniques whether it's you know box breathing the Wim Hof method we've had on here Hala Tropic very popular of just curious like what what's what's your take all the different techniques? After researching each of these techniques and spending a long time in labs. Studying them what happened to my my body and looking what happened to other people I came to the conclusion that. So many of them are doing the same thing that was towards the end of the book was like it's no coincidence that Sudarshan Korea, which is very well studied sixty independent studies on it is almost identical to Wim Hof method, which is almost identical to. US because they're doing the same you can call them by different names. You can you know tell people that what what they're doing very specific to that one breathing method. But. They're having breathe very fast and then they're having you breathe very slow and we know that there's huge benefits to doing this too distressing you to balancing your nervous system function to helping with with chronic such as even auto immune issues to asthma. So that's all been known but I think people have been looking at these in these in these different plots in these different silos. But what I've found is there's a reason why they're all having similar benefits for for so many people so that that's a long way of saying. They all work. You pick whichever one you want I'm curious your take specifically on Hala Tropic I. One seems to be very popular right now. So Hala Trophic which was developed in the seventies by standoff whom I interviewed was supposed to replace LSD thoroughly for people with anxiety for panic to have these these breakthroughs and trump is the one, which which I have found their squad, a dearth of research on it. We know subjectively, that is very effective for people with severe mental problems but we don't know exactly what's happening in the body in in the brain and a lot of the clinicians aren't as interested. They're there to help people right on. That's that's awesome. So Holly Tropic is sitting in a room with loud music for three hours breathing his heart is you can't. That's that's it. I've done. It the exciting thing about this is it looks like we are going to be studying this in a real way electrodes perhaps FM are is. Blood. Gases in allowed to see what's what's really getting stimulated there in the brain but the benefit or what holiday tropic does, and this is where I think This hasn't been communicated very clearly us or super clearly by that community is it denies your brain autopsy. Jn. It Denies Your Tissues Oxygen People Think. Getting so much oxygen in my body, the opposite is happening. And that's why people have such powerful experiences is because you're denying areas in your brain certain amount of oxygen, which could stimulate the feeling that you're dying rebirth or hallucinations. Potentially dangerous extremes I. don't I talk to Jimmy Ironman had long interview with him. He ran eleven thousand of these sessions up for eleven, thousand people in a hospital, and he didn't have any prom these people who had schizophrenia these were addicts and he found that they only it only had benefit a different scale of benefit sometimes mild sometimes extremely profound. So when when you talk to a clinician someone who's using the stuff all the time. I don't think it's any more dangerous than than to be living with chronic anxiety for decades and out not getting any. Out of it I WANNA say though I'm not a doctor and I'm not here to tell some understood. For hours and then blame me that they. You Know Pete Pants, or something to have. That's that's that's not my damn understood. What what is I'm curious what's your like? Do you have specific practice where you set aside time and what are you? What's your Go-to Yeah I think the most important thing that people can do is to start breathing slowly and to start reading less that seems counterintuitive. But YOU WANNA breathe as closely in line with your metabolic needs as possible for the vast majority of us. That means breathing last. So I whenever I sit down in the morning I have my phone I have this silly APP on it that gives me this little tone. So it reminds me to breathe into account about sex and breathe out to account about six not pushing it not just. Really, focused just just very casually very lightly just by doing that, you're getting more oxygen to your brain you're allowing your heart to work with a lot less effort to do more you're getting more circulation. So if you have cold toes cold fingers all the time, you can try the slower breathing and it's going to increase the circulation to your peripherals in your extremities So I do that quite often i. Do they call it Wim Hof, breathing some, call it to Oh I do that about three or four times a week There's an instructor, Chuck McGee who does these sessions for free and then sends out the recordings for free for anyone. This guy's selfless saint who has managed completely heal himself of a bunch of chronic conditions by breathing which is great and I also try to do Sudarshan Korea. Is often as I can maybe once a week but I think the most important thing is to be conscious of it and again to try to breathe in line with your metabolic needs, not way below it and especially now way above it. So we all have to wear masks it's the cost of. Living Right now. Helpful. In focusing on the breath, I find that I'm more conscious of breathing wearing a mask and as I've tried to consciously breathe through my nose like wearing the bass like sort of puts me in. The right state of mind to focus what's what's your take on breathing with a mask and? I think it would be better to have a mask on but of course, because nowadays, we we all have it and it's made people acutely aware of their their breathing. So the the best way if you have a pulse ox seminar in these are the real hot items. Now in the age of Covid, it's interesting to see what happens to your oxygen. When you breathe slowly and I found that mine can either stay the same or actually go up when I'm breathing very slowly because you're allowing more time for that oxygen to be absorbed in your lungs. So ways that device again, can you a pulse pulse ox similar pulse ox similar sounds the latest their twenty bucks on Amazon or or at your local. Drugstore. And and they assess your blood sats. So they assess how much oxygen because one of the main indicators Cova is when you're you're oa-to starts going down and sometimes you don't even feel it. I mean some of these people registering. Oh, to like down in the eighties are seventies which is. Normal is about ninety five is in the nineties, right? So if you're down anywhere below ninety urine trouble, so it this is a great device when you first start exploring breathing in when you especially for start exploring breathing slowly because you'll notice slower and less often gives you more so that didn't. Directly. Answer your question about mass I think that the BENEF- The thing that's that bad about them. As they're hassled aware hot air got a brush, your teeth, the law of the wiser you're suffering those consequences but the benefits are they made us acutely where breathing and I think they've helped us to breathe breathe less which which is good The important thing is just because you have a mask on, don't think you can breathe through your mouth and your okay. You always WanNa be breathing through your nose in the science on that is is so solid. So. What you also have the book I love I, Love the book. All these great takeaways, surprising takeaways one of them I read this I, started laughing the nose house erectile tissue. Let's. Let's talk about that. One of the many benefits so it turns out again this is the weird stuff you you start learning about when when you write a book about breathing and and start talking to to pros in in the in the nose World Ranallah. Gist. It turned out that our noses are coated with the same exact tissue as our genitals and they respond in the same way. So they will become engorged with blood and become inflamed or the blood leaves and they opened back up. What's so interesting to me about this is that our nostrils will open this erectile tissue will open and close throughout the day. So one nostra will open, and then after about thirty minutes to three or four hours it. Will awfully close in the other will become more dominant sometimes, both will will feel open but throughout the day like right now, this nostril, my right nostril is so much more open than than my left and that's not because I'm congested here. That's because that erectile tissue is become a gorge with flooding in gently closed up. So what they found and this is where it's even wilder. There's there's been twenty years of studies probably even more than that. Looking at how breathing through one austral or the other affects US mentally and physically. So breeding through that and people yoga people know all about this breathing through the right nostril associated with heat heart rate's GONNA go up circulation. So you're GONNA be stimulating the left side, the quote analytical side of your brain even more. That's clearly been demonstrated eeg studies and the left nostrils can have. The opposite effect is GonNA lower, your heart rate. It's GONNA cool. The body so and that that's been well documented in wh what I think is fascinating is that our noses you can do alternate nostril breathing probably everyone listening to this already does this but our noses are already doing this. So they are doing alternate nostril breathing throughout the day every day through these natural channels which. To me is pretty pretty interesting. So something else I thought was really interesting. You know look we all love to eat and you talk about chewing. Chewing. Chewing and breathing. So how can we chew better? Well, there's a reason why our mouths shrunk okay and why we're so messed up and why we're suffering from sleep apnea and all these other respiratory issues. It's because the major reason is because we stopped chewing our food if you look at when this damage really started coming on. It was right at the time when industrialized processed foods started becoming a very well known and consumed talk about removing the bran and germ from rice removing the brandon germ from wheat bottling things canning. Everything soft. And without habit that mask guitarist stress especially when you're young. You're not going to build the bone mass. You're not gonNA work out these muscles. The upper palate is not gonNA come down properly as it should in really expand your mouth, which is why so many of us present company included if you have a clean thumb if you're alone and not not with other people with with code, you can put your thumb inside your upper palate, and if it's really caved in like mine is that upper palate is pushing into the upper sinuses making it harder breath. So this is all all known stuff and they've studied in his found is directly correlated to. Chewing and I put chewing under the umbrella of chewing breastfeeding versus bottle bottle-feeding when you have an infant who's been breastfeeding for two years that takes incredible amount of stress and coordination and helps to push the face out and open up that way, which is why kids who have been bottle fed will have a larger chance of having snoring and sleep apnea later on in life and to me, it makes perfect sense. Especially, those first two years you're developing. So quickly, of course I was I was bottle fed. Associate some of that with with my airway problems I can't tell my mom. This was just the thing to do and it's impossible for a lot of people to to breastfeed I. I understand this there's there's no finger-pointing here. I'm saying this is what's happened before kids were breastfed at least two years sometimes two to four years. This is how it was don for tens of thousands of years only in the past few centuries have we really switched this? So in terms of research I'm hoping you know your book the attention with Covid that there's renewed interest if you will on on breath and. So I'm curious what research you're keeping an eye on what studies maybe they're. They're happening right now they're not conclusive yet like Whoa, what are you looking at in terms of research and science I? Think nitric oxide is fascinating because now I think there's fourteen studies right now administering nitric oxide to covid patients we create our own nitric oxide right here, and if we come, we can increase that nitric oxide fifteen fold by humming. So humming side. So lately, me give me an example what type of humming what would we do? You can harm whatever you want. You can you know iron man by Black Sabbath. You can harm whatever the carpenters doesn't doesn't matter I like lower. Range like musical range very impressive. Two sides that maybe we should do another podcast another topic. That's that's pretty impressive musical range both seventies bands though really pig myself with that one. But but lower I believe lower frequencies I don't know if there's a ton of science on this. It helps loosen and stimulate that nitric oxide release and we know this and and the science of this is solid there. There was one researcher found the so so wild, but he was able to cure up his chronic sinusitis by humming for a certain amount of time four times a day. If you think about chronic sinusitis is caused by a virus, sometimes it's caused by a Fungal infection, but it's mostly virus. What does nitric oxide do it interacts directly with viruses? So the fact that they're now using nitric oxide, there's they're studying nitric oxide to use it with patients with with covid unlike of course, they are so humming nasal breathing the these are very good things to do and breathing slowly and stain relaxed. I mean, if you're looking at Steven porgies. Released this this fascinating paper looking at the role that inflammation plays in the onset of severe symptoms of Covid and we know this you look people with diabetes. You look at people with heart issues look at people with what all these people have is they have inflammation problems. So so to keep your inflammation down when the easiest things you can do beyond eating right exercise very important is to really focus on your breathing and Tabriz slower not to be breathing through your mouth. So so just just those few things it seems so easy to be true people say, no, no way. This is possible but if you look at the science behind it, it's All there and it's all easily measurable. That's what I love about breathing as well is this isn't like a hey, how do you feel I feel better that's cool. There are machines and a lot of have these machines in our house that can instantly measure how you're breathing is affecting yourself and if you can affect yourself if you can put yourself into this balanced relax state for a couple minutes imagine what's going to happen. If you can stay that way for a couple days couple weeks couple months. While we've seen, I've written about these people in the book who have been able to absolutely, he'll themselves miraculous ways by switching pretty slow in low. Slow there you go. Well, James Thank you so much as I. mentioned I I love the camera recommended enough. So important for where we are today in this crazy world, we can all breathing this way. It doesn't cost anything can do it anywhere. You don't have to sweat. And it can save your life a second that. Yeah there's there's no point not to you can. You can do it while watching tiger king or you can do it while meditating whatever you want. We carry our breath with us all the time, and so if you focus those breasts whom work more efficiently, you can really see some profound benefits. Amen to that James Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.