1984 music countdown with guest Carmel Holt
How are you today and doing great today. How are you. i'm feeling good feeling really good. Welcome to the. What difference does it make. Podcast crowd member of the pantheon. Podcast families go pantheon. And we're continuing our countdown. this week. We are going from number ninety two number eighty one of the k rock countdown from one thousand nine hundred eighty four and we are doing the one. Oh six point seven pop songs of that year just kind of taking a look at it in the past. We've it's just been holly i and now we're starting to invite in some of our favorite people and this is certainly the case. I've been a big fan of carmel. Halts for a long time. I listened to her at wf uv and just her presence and just her engagement with the music. It's always wonderful. There's always a treat to hear her voice and i was actually kind of disappointed when she left. I what what what's going on is happening. Why are you. Why are you ripping carmel away from me. But as it turns out is she. She's got plans. She is actually as i opened up my email yesterday. The number eight most powerful person in the triple a universe according to take according to paul mars lack and his top twenty two. This celebrated carmel holt of the syndicated. Radio show xiros. Welcome carmel ache you so much great to be here. Thank you dave holly new Thank you so much for all those kind words. Dave like are crying again Day i was crying already for tears. Happy tears that's what i'm saying. Yes yes that's so nice to be here. Thank you for inviting me. Yeah so yeah. The cool thing though now is with a syndicated show. Is you know people not necessarily in new york all over the country you can hear you tell us a little bit about xiros. What is the idea behind it. what i did was basically take the two things that i know which is play listed music an interviewing and put them together into an hour show whose mission is to amplify and celebrate women in music but in a way that raises awareness about the lack of equality on the airwaves both on the hosting side and the programming side those behind the scenes and on the mike at the radio stations and also in the playlist and in the music business in general and so what to do is to provide listeners as opportunity to hear something that they don't normally hear there's all these baked in rules for some reason of programming where you're not supposed to play two women on the air back to back you're not supposed to have two female deejays on the air back to back. This is somewhere some. I don't know how this came into being. But this has been a rule. And so i'm trying to subvert that With this show and also just give listeners know because it's like you don't even know this is so baked in. You've always heard it this way. You're not even aware that it's something that you're missing so Rather than just trying to be an echo chamber of like this is for for ladies. This is really for everybody. I'm just saying. Hey there's all this music that you're not hearing. Because of these strange baked in rules music would be better for everybody if it was a more level playing field. There's also a new show launching in the spring back circling back to sonos on their player. Which will be launching in march same team same theme different different Format that's very exciting. Yeah when did you become aware of the rule because you were music director. I mean you know this. Unwritten rule that everyone knows about. But you know of course you. Probably your first question is why. And they'll so bizarre. I don't know i never have yet been able to find out the reason why you know it's interesting because so i'll answer your first question. When did i first become aware of it. I was aware of it. Basically from the beginning. I started in radio right out of college and I was a musician myself. And so i was on the other side of things where i was already coming up against barriers and challenges and frustrations and then when i got into radio i learned. Oh wow wait. This is like not any different from being over there. I'm over here and it's still that way but yeah i myself. Unfortunately because i didn't get to make the rules. I just had to follow them. You know. I programmed a radio station for you know for eight years in one place and then six years in another and had to follow those rules myself and it was painful to do so rita. Houston your was your pd. The you worked with her. Was this a conversation you had between the two of. You must've like i really want. This is an artist i love. Why can't we play here or why can't you know there are four new this week. That are all women. I'd love to play all them. Why can't i play them on my show in you know at this time. So what was that discussion. The radio station You know as most aaa stations are Are programmed know. They're programmed redeem jays. Don't have there are a few exceptions to this. You know i think k. xp and maybe the current minneapolis have a much more open playlist but in most cases radio. This is kind of like the peek behind the curtain. There is a music director. That's plugging in you know. There's there's a program and new songs get added as well as old ones and there's percentages that are calculated by a program. Then there's a human element of like massaging those things and making sure that things sound good right but basically You're dealing with you know a stack of paper your logs every day and the music is already loaded in for you. I i had very very little say in what actually got on the air and even music meetings where i sat in a room with three or four. Other people Yeah unfortunately i never got a good explanation. Those rules were always pretty much followed. I mean i think. Suv of any station You know that. I knew of was the most adventurous in that way in terms of gender balance and over. I know it was something that really cared about. We still ended up kind of following that rule more or less. I'm taking out a project this week. Dave and i make some calls and a really wanna know where this originated in. Why like to the constitution. Why can't this be changed people. When he touched people listening is different. If we were listening when we listen to the radio now it is no longer jarring to hear two women. In a row two females around and as far as jobs go the average listener wouldn't really notice it. I will say that Two things one is that ninety percent of program directors number nine zero ninety percent of program directors at radio stations across formats are male and white and also because in radio we. Oh we're in a game where even public radio we're in a ratings game. There's this whole thing about getting money. It's weird to make money and so when ends up happening is because of the idea that familiarity builds right it. It builds Allegiance in your listeners. Builds comfort people come back because they want to hear things that they've heard and they want to discover new music when there's market research done and people are not used to hearing female voices. What do you think is going to happen. What songs do you think are going to quote unquote test. Well if they are not accustomed to hearing female voices on the air. Do you think that they're going to rate higher. Something that they feel comfortable with with a male voice because there are more accustomed to hearing that or do you think that they're going to rate higher female voice. What do you think is going to happen. It's the logical thing so we ended up in this self perpetuating pattern now where the suits consultants et cetera. Say but we've done the research meals. Just don't test well and there you go it. Just kind of perpetuates perpetuates so then the then the program directors can wash their hands of it and say i don't know i mean we would love to but we have to be able to sell it for song and dance l. It that's right. Yeah so so we have some you know we have some work to do. I think we're in a better place now than ever. And fortunately unfortunately with all of the pushing in the past year during the pandemic black lives matter for diversity and inclusion. This conversation is up in a big way and that gives me hope you know. I think that people are way more aware and open to having these conversations and open to you know kind of doing some self reflection. I'm also doing a steady With the a few women from the uk and And here in the states to actually get statistics on this Because it's one thing to kind of have anecdotal evidence and then it's a whole other thing to actually have the hard numbers. Let's actually analyze this. We're gonna look at the last five years of airplay across formats every format that we can touch In the united states in radio and actually see what's happening there that's fantastic. I'm here that i would love to hear the results. When it said it will set and done it will be published. I promise name sure our wait so let's take a turn to. Let's go back in time. I am and so sound effect here. I know we're gonna haro whatever. Yeah we're gonna talk about. some of. These songs were played on k. Roku in the early eighties. I'd actually let's go back a little bit for you hermel. What what was your first radio station that you remember or personality. What did you listen to on the car going to whatever middle school or whatever you what was happening. I grew up in a house. I i grew up in an npr household. I was the i'm first generation. My parents were both jewish intellectuals from israel in europe and bills into classical music and npr news. That was it. So i grew up with the all things considered That was nice childhood soundtrack. there there's funk. But i discovered popular music when i was probably five or six because i was gifted a rack system for my birthday. That was like a radio shack with the turntable on the top. And the tuner on the front and eight track and so. That's where i started to listen to more popular music and i don't remember specific person the only personality i remember. I remember to wolfman. Jack and doctor demento both of them i l when casey kasem syndicated much like yourself much. You're you're going down the casey kasem route. This is exciting. Maybe we'll have a xiros countdown every week. Do you remember like the i. I love to ask the first album. Yuba author single. Maybe maybe a poster that you had up on your wall. Okay no posters. That wasn't really loud. But but but but. I do remember the first album that i actually bought. My first records were all beatles. Records handed down for my big sisters So i grew up on the beatles but the first album that i actually went to a record store and bought was madonna's first record that right about that choice still holds. What and you still have it. Yeah i do actually good. I have that and speaking of one thousand nine hundred four. I do have my original copy of prince purple rain. Did you get to see a rated r. movie you know that was raided art. You see it in the in. The theaters are i. Don't i don't think i saw it no i. It was many years later. That i actually saw the movie. I was too young. It's tough to watch now. Sometimes it's a little little misogynistic but still like like everything in the eighties. I know goes back but come into the but still yeah but those performances are amazing. Okay we're talking to our favorite shiro. That's carmel and we will a break right back. welcome back. To what difference does it make and our very special guest on this episode. Carmel holt enough chitchat. Get to the heads down. The countdown begins all right. So we start with number ninety. This is that's love that it is. This is the first of three songs that are on the k rock list. And i will ask holly and you can. You can chime in if you like. K rock now has their rock of the eighties format and they paired it down to eighty songs so they chopped off Twenty five twenty six point seven songs. I'd like to quiz holiday to see if she thinks it's still on the list if it's still relevant did you. By the way. I gave you a cheat mike marrone and tossed it aside did you. Did you study ecorse okay. Good repairs appears show. Good been trained to prep always. Of course sir go all right good perfect. All right did not know this band blancmange. This band was again on. K rock really big especially in eighty four. This was the the pd back. Then was freddy snakeskin and he found a lot of his albums through just digging through crates of albums and he liked to go through the real name object to the trash records and people thrown out but he he liked going through the imports. it was k. I played a lot of imports. So this was one of those and it kind of was something l. a. Took to where did you. What did you think of this me. Yes i loved it. Yeah i i kind of went down the rabbit hole. Oh this oh really cool. And what did i think i was like. Oh yeah they're kind of like Like a poor man's depeche mode or something. This was actually before. Yeah well yeah they start actually out around the same time they were coming up so yeah can still last year. Wasn't it typically do job. That's right yes yes and hedwig were your thoughts of. Do you remember the song i game. I'm gonna reiterate again is so funny. I left nineteen eighty-four music and character. It reminds me how much i lead the music. It reminds me of signs that i have lost since forgotten and i like. Oh my gosh. I i liked similar videos. Couldn't find i listen to but the videos. I couldn't find because i love looking at them too. I love a good mullet and hair. Yeah but diedhiou dave. Do you remember the song i think. Carmel hit the nail on the head with a poor man's depeche mode. But yeah this album. I think they were. They were building up this this following in l. a. and m. They seem yeah. But they wasn't played on mtv so it felt like uniquely ours. I think and that's why there are three songs from blancmange on this. This al for that to maybe. This was a west coast thing. Because i didn't really but anyway it wouldn't have been odd for me not to be aware of them from this time but i will say That there's a lot of eighty s music. That i missed my. I want to say kind of the first time round. I'm putting that in air quotes then. Once i became a programmer and a radio personality i rediscovered at or discovered for the first time so much like i kind of like had a renewed love affair with the eighties because i i was like. I wish that i i was there. You know just two little. Yeah but yeah. That's kind of the fun thing especially when you hear new music. There's a lot of new artists coming out and it reminds you of something you've heard long ago and then you're like. Oh that touched on this band did. That is a long long time ago. And they're doing their own unique takes. It's it's fun and and that's one of the reasons we do. This is because it is kind of lost classics. So i will have collie. Is this song still on the charts. Now it's not. What do you think carmel would still be on the list with this song. Still be on the list the damn list. The list of became rocks on. Do you think this one is still unidentified off now. I don't think so. That is correct. This is no longer on the list. I will say though. There are going to be some surprises. Some songs you might think would be on the list like this but they took off completely all right. So this takes okay holly. Did you say something. Just wanted to comment that that carmel made about depeche mode will find that in a lot of these songs are reminiscent of depeche mode. That's not that that is not surprising. But what's interesting is like how there can be you know of a moment of an era so many bands kind of like tapping into the same. Whatever it is in the in the air you wanna say right but also some of it just being purely a time. Capsule of what instruments were like. There are a lot of these instruments like synthesizers and all things were like having and there was the newest and this right so everyone was kind of like grabbed this gravitational pull towards synthesized music and and i know like depeche mode. Why did they rise to the top versus mosh. Like who knows right is it. The songs was at the look was at the marketing. Yes yes yes. And he looked at dave. Do some bands win over the others if they all kind of are feeding from the same. Have you looked at dave gahan. Have you seen him if you see like you know what not. This is a humble brag. I interviewed him or not. Is the nicest person ever. He's so amazing. He's so amazing and he also is still handsome. Yeah a couple of years. As i saw them live at the hollywood bowl and i hadn't seen them in many many many years and they were they put on such a great show. You receive your doubts about Bans being able to put on a great show of. You're used to seeing you know five piece guitar to guitars. And but they put on such a fantastic show and his voices. Their voices are still great. Amazing you write great songs to yes. It is the power of the front threes right to the top. Okay all right. We banner way there. Yeah we answered our questions. Great songs and greet frontman great performances and sincere so wonderful that shakes us up to number eighty nine. Now we talk about the look and so this this kind of crack me up looking at the video for elvis costello's the only flame in town. I mean it. It was very very much eighties. This is from an album cal. Goodbye cruel world and i don't know if you've ever bought the nineteen ninety five cd reissue. Elvis says congratulations. You just bought the worst. Elvis costello album ever released but break-up at the time extra bad feelings about it but smith attraction this yeah so yeah this was. This was the last album. I think the full lineup of elvis gusto attractions problems with the recording. The album of what direction they want to go. But i do like this on the only flame in town. Do you remember the song carmel. Not at all not at all. Not only do i not remember it but it never you know. All the elvis costello you know catalog. It's never shown up in a playlist. I it was completely off my radar. That sounds about right. Because i mean i think this is an album as i just said that he wasn't that proud of like on reissues or greatest hits. There's something you you know. His his catalog is so huge and so strong that even though this was a charming song i mean a upon listening to it now for some reason. I put this out of my mind there. It's it's features daryl hall on background vocals. Oh no me neither. Yeah that is a very good trivia. He is in the video as well. So it's kind of funny just seeing them interacting together and it's yeah it is kind of of that time with a sack solo and all that stuff. It's super eighties. So as someone who doesn't remember that song. And probably as i'm going to assume you love elvis costello and his cadillac. What gore. yeah. Who doesn't hello all right so i liked the song. Okay it didn't like flora me. I wasn't like ooh hidden gem that i now discovered it was fine. It was now the song yeah does inwardly completely completely. Pretend you're in philadelphia and you're grading. Sean cokely's talking about okay. So i think that's funny for that's a little inside baseball. But there's an annual conference in philadelphia at w. x. p. n. And our friends sean. Coakley does these music meetings whereby it's so fun. Actually it's my favorite thing He plays these snippets of new songs. Sometimes it's bhai new artists. Sometimes it's by artists. We don't know but he doesn't reveal who it is or or what the song title is or anything about it. We just listened to like a snippet and then everybody has these cards and we great them. Raider record It can get pretty interesting. People get like really agro sometimes. Anyway i guess i was putting up a card for this. Probably give it a five. Yeah there you go all right we say when something is finally yeah. It's it's just fine perfectly acceptable fine. It's a it's a song fine. It's a little bit more than just a song. Maybe i should give it a six. It was a fine because it's elvis. It becomes a six. Yeah okay all right. So holly where do you say as i know you remember this song and you have probably some nice memories of it. Of course i do. It is not my favorite elvis song. And i can go either way about whether it is on the top eighty. I wanna see. I wanna say yes you want to say yes and are you are. You are saying you answer yes okay. This is no longer on the list. Oh okay for two but do you like. Do you still like the song i mean does this would. I would imagine you'd think more of it. You know because we've heard it time in the eighty s sunny. I think i left because it was a elvis song. I was just i made. Maybe i was programmed to. Because i love him. But it's a little better than fine for me so happy to hear it again. Because i hadn't heard it a long time but they don't love it like i said it's not my i like it a lot. Don't let it. This was a little more specific. Sure i think this was after punch the clock and everyday i write the book so this is like their next album. And yeah you know. It's those are those are high. Those are high marks to hit right exactly. it's okay to have a little slump. There is done a lot of great. Were crying saying that. Oh not getting you know super excited about it. But but it's okay and he was making the transition as well. You know you had those those new wave those first four records and now he's going to like this smooth jazz type salad. So it's you know shut which which was of that of the mid eighties. That was kind of what everyone was going for. Just hit the nail on the head. If he feels about it. Why do we have to feel bad about not getting so excited. Our finding move moving on moving on all right number eighty eight general public general public. This is by the band. General public and the song is called general public. Holly do you remember this song. of course i do. I love the sun. I like general public. Steve wake ringing rankin. Roger their sound will always be significant of the time. Also let them i remember. The song confided video the research. This wasn't a single. This was again something that k rock did they like to the general public kind. Likeable blancmange. this was you know the first couple of songs singles hit. And so what else can we play and they like to dig into the album and play something deeper and so. That's that's where this came around. This was not something that i was familiar with. General public kind of like a super banned in a way because there are members of dixies. Midnight runners tenderness. That's the one everybody knows. They kill essentials rights. Right and i i as i looked on wikipedia and i didn't realize that mick jones was in the band and credited in the album for for i don't know what he played on. Mick jones of the clash was was in general public for a little bit of time. Yeah i was surprised. Also i had no idea so and in the cheat notes i asked okay so this is general public and the song is general public. How many other songs that can you name any. There's a lot there are. Yeah there's totally a lot. I mean you just mentioned mick jones. So there's like this is radio clash. Sure i'll give credit. It can't say that company bad company The stray cat strut from by a stray cats. I cleaned killer queen wilco wilco. The song and wilco the album the monkeys the monkeys What else Bad religion bad religion. Belen exhaustion have of self referential song black sabbath black sabbath black sabbath the damn yankees green day Are you just doing this. Call the that we would also accept. They might be giants motorhead a big country. In right i listen. I i will say i have a little bit of an advantage here because i do. I used to do with themed Our called the mix tape. And also i did this when i was a wgst. It was called something else. But like noontime offer quest. Show and i would do themes every once and i would like tell listeners to like this is one that i loved and always did really well and so i've done this exercise more than once. It's fun mice so yes you did very well. I'm very impressed. I love that okay. So i'm gonna ask you holly. Is this still on the list and you say no. I didn't even get your take on this song. Carmel did you. Would you think of this school general public. I mean i just. I just don't know i just don't know there anything beyond. I've never taken the deep dive. So but yeah school english fictitional english feed. Yes but i didn't again. That was something that i discovered later. I wasn't. They weren't on my radar when i was a kid. When did you start going back. Usually into your own music for you know as as as you're a teenager and then sometimes in college you start going back or when when was it where he like starting to discover different eighties music. Or i mean probably when i started working at wgst because you know that was in the nineties and so our golds were from the eighties and the this. The radio stations started in the eighties. So so yeah. That was and. I started listening to that radio station. When i was in college before i started working there. So yeah that was when you know all kinds of things opened up to me. And i became friends with nic. Harcourt and you know he had the whole like british thing. You know so. Yeah that's when. I started to kind of get an education of like you know eighties but like cool eighties music. That wasn't pop up. Nik din introduce you to lamarche. Was he. I think that was a that. I can remember. Yeah yeah it's funny that you say that about pop music. Because steve i have had conversation. I have to have distinguished for him and continues to bring it up. I'm a fan of eighties. New wave pop music with spotty for me in the eighties. Let's say and for me. It's the style jack. So you know and some of ages well you know better than others. I'm just saying that you know for me pop. Music is a style gic from the eighties. Because that was what was on the radio when i was a kid but yeah also there for me. I like so. I was like i said ten eleven in nineteen eighty four and then by the time so those preteen when i became a teenager my whole lens for what. I was listening to sweat further back so i wasn't even like plugged into eighties music when it was actually happening. Because i started to get enthralled with sixties and seventies music. I became a hippie dead. So i was like her in a grateful dead in janice and allman brothers and all that stuff so again i kind of like missed a lot like i remember my friends being like super super psyched about you too and i was just like but it's nice that you get to discover it later on so you discover a whole is a catch up. It's like new whenever you discovered. It's so exciting. Even if you're not in the same moment with it so carmel jump in the van and you went to. Did you do the dead tour an okay. Are you kidding me man. I need a miracle. Your many believe me as fun. I consider myself very lucky. That's very cool. okay anyway. General public is not on the list anymore. We'll keep going. Let's keep moving along number ninety. Seven the psychedelic furs. Heaven carmel milton. Wow that was pretty cool. Psychedelic furs okay. So for me you do to. Oh god i love and like pretty in pink. Are you kidding me like that. Movie like psychedelic furs. I just have this association to like john hughes all those movies breakfast love and pretty paying and so. It's kind of an automatic. Like i just love it. I love his voice so much. I agree with you in in black tabby memories. That movies also. They're like they're intertwined. You touched on pretty pretty in pink. Who who is your guy in pretty in pink are you did you. Did you relate to duckie or are you a spader guy what you know who love duckie. Tuck yeah okay kidding me. Good good call okay. The underdog. I know but spader have the hair. He had everything he had the car. Everything going on there now. Okay but you know what he was a player. You recognize that immediately okay. Us is a player very could. Yeah i think we all agree that that having is pretty spectacular so we all loved this song. Is this song. Still on the charts. Everybody yes yeah yeah. Of course all right very good. I would go even further that i knew there will be more psychedelic songs on this chart that none of them have dropped off. Okay all right so Speaking of movies we move onto number eighty six banana cruel summer. Okay this song. I remember from one. Of course you did and you saw this in the theater to love it so much so so much. It definitely sounds really dated so thank that this song is an example of something that's age dwell but i feel like if somebody were to like cover it or do a remix totally chart in our people out there know an essence did a cover of this. That's not who. I'm thinking more like the x. Ax you know or like billie eilish war on kind of a bedroom type of sound. Yeah actually banana rama in the they did another version of this saga like a new jack. Swing which is kinda sounds like devos poison tattered at that cruel but anyway so they've they've remixed it a little bit but i'm sure yeah. Someone could give a good spin to that song recommend. I know a emphasis big in our house but this is a good. It's a good cover. It's she has a great way as just a beautiful place. I'll say again Anything banana remedy. As i understand that i agree with you about it. Being a little bit dated. I love them so much. I wanted to them. When i was living in the eighties. I wanted to be them. They were just so cool their clothes in their hair and they were coolest so anything probably could have come out of their mouth. I would have loved it. This song made up to number nine in the us at number forty four as a vh1 made it the forty fourth most popular song of the eighties. It lives on and thanks to karate. Kid have you watched. Are you watching cobra. Kai did you watch cobra kai right. I don't know i. I might have to try again. I got so like grossed out episode. i was like oh. I don't know i've heard it's really good though. Yeah okay so karate kid which the movie we love and still have fond memories of is it still. Is this song still on the list. Carmel what do you think like. I said i love this song i i and and its own style for me but i think as it is right now. It doesn't age. Well all right for gen-x this this is extremely well. It's now it was number. Eighty six back in eighty four now in this revised list. It's at number twenty two so we yes good. People of a certain age can never get enough of this song which which we just kind of mentioned okay. So let's keep going number. Eighty five is a flock of seagulls. The more you live the more you love and this was this is this will be our farewell to ever mentioning a flock of seagulls again. This was their last last charting song but still pretty good. I mean did you give it a listen carmel. The flock of seagulls song year course and you think it. I think i thought like okay. This sounds again. It was one of those general public. Where i don't really know the cannon to see like an appreciator necessarily like an enormous fan so it's hard for me to comment on an really feel like i'm coming from educated plays purely from a sonic standpoint. I mean i think it's a cool song. I've heard other songs by them. That i think Might be. I mean like they're hit like you know run right I read that john. Yes something about a flock. He goes i. It goes the credit i mean. Everyone thinks of mike scott and his hair. I think the lead guitarist which i had to look up. It's paul reynolds. He has like this. Great sal that. He gave to flock of seagulls during that that small period of time very unique. And i i really. I think that helps age these songs. Well i think we see. We've kind of touched on. What what what is aged well and what we can throw away. But i think probably because the guitar sound. It's still kind of draws you in. And i really. I really liked the song. Still hollywood what do you think. I had forgotten how much i i liked the song sun better than iran. Maybe iran just ran. Its course me by the song and do right about the sound at play the video from the first note. I just totally took me back. There's just something about it as a could something. Like the psych. Fers when you hear heaven like those. I sounds something that vokes great memories. And i think that flock of seagulls kind of touched on that now saying that is this on the list. I wanted to be. But i don't think it is. I'm going to assume. Carmel thinks the same thing and i'm going to tell you that. Yes it is not his no longer on the list number. Eighty four eurythmics. Who's that girl. I just can't even with a song are so good like i think. Is it fair to say that. They're underrated now. Like i feel like somehow they don't get the shine that they should but they are Mazing dave stewart's amazing. I mean they're both like what a power couple. what like. it's it's just. It's incredible. And i feel like their music really does stand up. I can't believe a also it. It made me remem-. I not remember. But i i remembered not from that time but like remembered from recent memory that they released two albums in one thousand nine hundred eighty three that it was here comes the rain again and touch. Keep both came out in nineteen eighty. Three which is like bonkers and So her who's that girls actually from. Nineteen eighty-three it's not an technically not in one thousand nine hundred four song just to be annoying about it but But yeah i bring it bring it anything. Eurythmics bring it. As far as i'm concerned. This is awesome song. And i love the video. Video is really great. Especially you know when we first met andy lennox so kind of this androgynous look and so the video kind of touches on that a little bit more. She's dressed up. As elvis kind of seducing the singer play off each other and there's dave stewart being now kind of has i think he played like the love interest. But it's fun because you look in you. Recognize the number of the of his people are sitting at the table with dave. It's a a number like old eighties artists. The members of banana. Hazel o'connor are familiar with hazel. O'connor at all she's worth looking into. She's a very power. There's a song. Eighth day that i think it came around early. Eighty s really great. Great powerful singer really good stuff. She's in there. Just a fun fun song that touches on so many different themes and i just love and i can't get like you said just can't get enough of it just can't get enough you know. So you mentioned banana-rich chablon fahey. That's in the video and she actually did. Marrying dave stewart appears later interesting. Yeah good tissue. Eighties eighties eighties. Sent kick. garner is in this video as well from hazy fantasia. Just a stunning beauty. That just happens the really quick cameo in this video games girlfriend. We love this song. Is this song on the list. Millions for some reason this is not on the list. Oh k rock yes. There's going to be a few well. I'll well well we move about you know but you can still play. I mean it still played. I think so. I think maybe it's played on classic hits station still and triple a. And you could still hear the song. Different places sweet dreams and here comes the rain again or you're missionary man. You know those things are. She's been amazing to follow by the way during the pandemic. I don't know if either of you follow her on instagram. but she's she's really been amazing. Just you know sitting No and singing. And just you know having these very heartfelt felt messages to people and Yeah it's been really cool. I will thank you. Yeah a lot of a lot of artists are kind of trying to reach. I think that's been one of the advantages now is like artists are trying to discover ways to connect and through social media. We've kind of you know even though it's not the same as seeing someone live and in person on stage but it kind of feels. A little intimate with your. You're literally stepping inside their house. And so a lot of lot of the third wall kinda coming down. So yeah okay. So let's move on to number eighty three the thompson twins. Doctor dr love it. You've have very fond memories of thompson. Twins totally totally. This is not the song though i mean. I like the really really like the song lot. But this is not the song for me right off. The out into the gap was the album that spawned all these hits and this yeah and it was one of the biggest albums of that year for sure. It's not hold me. Hold me out which we will which we will talk about later on this episode but but we are talking doctor doctor and i think this was the song that followed hoping now the follow up single still still very strong and still. I still love hearing this. I think it speaks to the production of the song. It's it's really really it's great. What about hollywood. yes also night. It's funny. I don't know i and we're we're renting again here but we talked last week about the song with the title track into the gap which i actually like better. I do like this on. And i do happen to think it remains on the top eighty one of the fact when i was looking at a just Prepping a list. I saw came up with a few more songs. That comparison singer love to a medical condition. So that's the thing behind the song. This is the besides that comparison being in love to medical state. Right right yeah. That's a good one very good. Which be alone is like the sickness and lebas secure right. that's right we talked about this last week. I've kind of curious as someone like a preteen did you thompson twins were on. They performed on live aid. Did you watch live aid. Do remember that and because the thompson twins were honest for live eight. I did not watch now. Okay because this ad live thompson twins saying the beatles revolution and madonna joined them on stage. Show like the twins. Were so big that madonna came on to be on stage with them. Yeah i did not have cable tv so i had to go to a friend's house to watch. Mtv even and it was like wow you know my friends have mtv. So yeah no. I didn't. I didn't watch it very good. Mtv was on musings everything. See thing. I miss those days. Because the portlandia episode where they try to bring back mtv. I realize vaguely remember. They like call up like penfield. Kurt loader what's her name martha plumpton. They get them all together. Not martha plumpton thank you and they. They got them all together and like go to the headquarters of icon and like try to make a case for back. Mtv pretty funny you should look it up. Nineteen eighty-four was the first year that they did the mtv awards right. Yes they still have that award show. Have you tried watching the empty. That's for us. I don't know what do you think of a worship will you want like grammy's does that I will always watch the grammys. Even though i think it's kind of bullshit. But i you know and especially intrigued. Now that i'm kind of like in this lane. Where i'm i'm kind of really focused on a quality gender equality and racial equality in music I'm very very interested in how you know. Just the grammy's has been fascinating to to watch. Just say yeah steady just to want you know from from a very analytical standpoint where the attention gets put who gets what who gets to present who wins what who gets the snubs. I was special. Ed especially during that depp. Up speech or something like that to to women or no narrow portnoy thank you l. a. Right but it was one of the things that kick started me in this direction. Yeah that's something that's that's great. Where they you mean. A lot of people took this negative this horrible thing that was spoken on national tv as and just recognize like oh i think it was very positive turning this negative into a positive i question. Yeah yeah was getting a little wakeup call. So that's that was very. That's good that so it's kind of moving in that direction. Let's let's continue our countdown with again. Guess what we get to talk about. This is a this was actually a b side. Now i'm gonna ask you have you back in the day besides the single where maybe a. Dft were you ever able to say. Oh this here's another saw. The single is our right. But i like this. This other song differ from the band. Yes yes and actually i was you know for. I was blessed in that way that for all of my radio career we definitely always always always looked for other songs and actually push back sometimes on on labels when they were pushing the single on. It didn't feel right and we listen to the album and found better songs and we didn't always play the game so So yeah very good and so did you give this song game above my head. This is the second of three lamar songs. What'd you think of this on. I mean just like the first one. I thought it was cool. I don't renault this band. You know so It was really it was a i. Listen so i would have to kind of revisit again. Enter really have a. I think and more context may be to formulate like a good like pro opinion on it. But i don't know if. I mentioned that doctor doctor is still on the list number. Sixty five is you'll be before we even started talking about this. You're very happy to know. So now i will ask about blancmange. Is this song on this list. The song that that leaves carmel. Kinda cold leaves this reviewer cold but do you think holly is still on the list. I like the song a lot. Go with yes. Even though i know there are going to be other songs from blige at that is going to remain on the top. Eighty that we haven't gotten to yet. But i wanna say yes about you're correct. This is on the list eurythmics. No lamarche throw the more. The merrier feather eurythmics sworn that was on. Yeah well we continue okay so this is going to be this. The last song of our list we've reached and this is probably one of my favorites. This is cindy lauper. She bob and i don't know this is just do all episode this well. I mean we watch the video again and and you just kind of fall in love again with just the energy that cindy lauper brings. She was meant for video ad. This she's so unusual was just a phenomenal record. It was just like nothing. We'd heard before but she was. It was something that we were. We were ready for. You know. And i i love that. She was just this huge personality. And i still to this day and at the time had really no idea that it was about masturbation even though you watch the video and it's it's all out there clueless but it's very obvious when you know when you watch the video. What are your thoughts. Carmel on cindy and this one this song she bop yeah. She's amazing and you know again. My my lens for the song originally was through the eyes of Preteen so you know. I had a much more innocent viewpoint than i did as an adult. So i would imagine she would be a preteen. She would appeal to you like you see this. And she's like this this oversize personality but just kind of glamorous and still a rockstar and singing. I would imagine that that might have appealed to you. She didn't hit me that way. But but i i. I appreciated her. Certainly you know. I i liked your music and videos were fun and she was fine. I think i was maybe in terms of like you know someone. People that captivated me I was probably more drawn to like madonna. I'm then i was andy. Lauper madonna was a madonna over team. Lauber okay not that. They were rival at all. But i think madonna was a little bit more of a bad girl and show you know and there was something like i think. I don't know this would be something kind of interesting to like. Do do a little you know. Think on a little bit or do more digging research on but like just off the cuff off the top of my head. I'm thinking like they were both rebellious. And they were both subversive. But i think that madonna was just so much more overt about it And outspoken and were brazen. And i feel like sitting offer more. Cartoony i think possibly maybe madonna for you felt more real really compare myself. I don't compare them their music. They even there the styles of music but cindy lauper was different. Not like a character or character but just she represented something different to me. I think she's the stronger singer than the madonna. She just phenomenal. Oh my god amazing. She said in the song that she was combining elettronica in rockabilly trying to bring those those elements together and so it kind of has that feel like she mentioned like when she she starts a song with who. that's kind of like her rockabilly. Like bop bop bop cool. The sun was on the nineteen eighty. Five's pm are see list of fifteen. Oh it must have been. Yeah i mean you know. I mean it was pretty blatant at this. You know what they were if princes Darling nikki masturbating magazine was that was on the list and cyndi lauper. She's alone in their car. And the the windows are steaming up. And it's just her and there with with the magazine. It's phenomenal truly a national treasure. I love her so much. So cool all right so that brings us. Oh is this on the list. Yeah carmel what do you think i will say. Who's that girl is not on the list as we talked with a hint. It's a huge hint. It's not it's not on the list. Now surprise you probably too big appear to who knows there. We go so. That's that's our ten song chunk. I wanted to give you an opportunity. Carmel out we last month. We lost rita houston from f. You can you give us some words about what she meant to you as a as someone did you did you consider her your mentor and Where does she bring the radio and when she bring into your life. Yeah i mean she was definitely my my mentor And she was also my family. Shes really close friend. you know. it's a huge loss. And for me personally. You know we hadn't worked together in a in a while you know because i left. Uv in in two thousand nineteen. So y you know when she when she passed. I felt quite lucky that we were no longer co workers that we had our relationship had shifted back into where we were just friends. You know that was a gift. Because i was able to really be there at the end. But you know i mean. She's a trailblazer and shoes. So so important so had such a pivotal role to play. You know it's like. I was thinking about this because the day that she died was a tuesday. And i i was doing you know i have so produced this weekly radio show now and it gets delivered out to radio stations on tuesday night and i was like i can't i cannot work i cannot. I was a mess. I was just got it. But i kept hearing rita and my head like telling me to like not like suck it up but just you know okay. You're you're grieving but like get back to work like there's time degree later this is this is somebody who lost her father and then two days later was on stage at the beacon theater. You know she all through her illness. She just never stopped never stopped working and there were moments where some of us were like. Oh my god like how can she keep going. you know. maybe she shouldn't keep going be resting. But it was like up to the very very end. You know and that taught me so much and i found myself coming back to that ethos when i was confronted with her death. It was like i was able to kind of like throw myself into my work and that was so healing for me. Yeah and so. I've just been reflecting a lot on. So i you know i dedicated that show I had an interview will come full circle to the start of this conversation where i told you guys that i sat and did a ton of interviews for a podcast that was never to be or at least not to be yet and half of the interviews were with women who were on the business side and i had been bugging rita for a decade or more to get her story down. Now you don't want to talk to me. Why do you wanna talk to me. Because you're rena fucking houston. That's why anyway i finally got my wish. And i interviewed her amazing for for xiros and then it sat in the vault because the podcast never came out all of a sudden there. I am the day that she died thanking. God now might be the moment. And i opened up and i listened to it for the very first time since we recorded at that day and You know when. I was like going back and forth like this going to ring. True for stations across the country i realized lake no matter who is listening to this no matter if you are a music fan rita houston has influenced somebody that you care about like a musician from brandy. Carlisle to katy lang to adele too. I mean the list is like a mile and a half long of artists that took to social media by the way right away to thank her to have that large of an imprint. I mean that's that is that's a life well spent you know and it's something to aspire to. There's a small group of us who are close with rita who are getting bracelets made what would we do. W and it's something that like. I mean i literally. I i keep with me every single day. I hear her my head every single day. I'm here talking to you. Thanks to her. And i feel a duty in a sense of responsibility to carry her legacy. That's that's the work now is like you know. Keep keep showing up to work. Keep showing up to where work keep supporting artists. Keep building relationships. That's how she did it. You know so. I know that was a long though. It's hard when somebody brings that topic to me. You know it's There's a lot to say. Thank you so much. I mean this. And you are continuing with with your shiro. Show and it's it really is. The torch has been passed so to speak. And you're you're really you. You're promoting great music and that's all that that's all that matters really you know you're you're pushing the artists and the these these talents. It's great and you're giving them a voice. It's it's wonderful. And i'm really happy that you've got this show and we hear you in la. I can hear you in. La now at eight eight five fm our guest. We're gonna hear you on sonos eventually and now yes beginning in march. Yeah shiro's mixed tape memoir actually funny. It's kind of a similar thing we're just talking about but Again reminds me yeah. It's like what we just did right walking down memory lane with with songs. It's music is so transport. This is so cool. Thank you guys so much for inviting me. It was a lot of fun. It was really owes a nice change of pace for me really. I enjoyed myself very much in his greek. Meet you holly sized to me. Thank you for doing this. We're so grateful. That was a lotta fun. It was a pleasure. Thank think i'm available. Welcome back anytime skirt. That's it calling you a friend of the show there all right so thank you so much. Carnevale we'll talk soon. Yeah take care. Well can't yes for sure. All right so thanks again to carmel. Halt a her show is called shiro's radio and its heroes with an s. You could hear the show anywhere. How can you give us that information. Shares radio dot com and also in march. You'll hear on sonos so that should be fun and super talented very happy to have her going over a ten song chunk of songs k rock played way back in one thousand nine hundred four and thank you holly a wonderful co host. The pleasure has been all mine. Dave as it is every single week. Pantheon podcast proud member of the pantheon. Podcast family where can you follow us. Holly you can find us on facebook. At what difference does it make podcast and you can follow us on twitter and instagram at wdm cast and also check out our youtube channel where we are posting regularly. Lots of clips. Lots of out takes from our show so so subscription simply follow. What difference does it make. Podcast on youtube and you will easily find what holly is posted on there. And it's always something fly. Can't wait to see what she posted this week until next week. This is dave chuck later very.