Erica Williams Simon, entrepreneur and author: The only way out of feeling stuck is to move.


Today's episode is brought to you by. Hr Block tax pro go expert tax. Prep without the office visit doc the only way out of feeling stuck is to move and by movement I mean create some space in your life to start trying to think. Think deeply and proactively about what can I do to change things. What can my next? FBI You won't necessarily find the immediate answer but it's asking the key questions. Shins that I think can help. I'm Carly's Aitken. I'm Danielle Weisberg. Welcome to skim from the couch. This podcast is where we go deep on career advice from women who have leapt from the good stuff like hiring and growing a team to the rough stuff like negotiating your salary and giving or getting hard feedback. We started the skin from a couch. So what better place to talk it all out than where it began on a couch today. We welcome Erica. William Simon to skimmed from the couch. Erica is a writer podcast hosts and the CEO of Sage House media as a self-described -scribed professional question asker. She facilitates conversations to inspire social change. Her new book you deserve. The Truth Discusses The career decisions nations. She made in order to re write her life story and she shares. How you can do the same Erica? We are so excited to have you with US mainly because you have interviewed us many times and now we have you on the other side of the table. I'm kind of your good energy. Yeah I'm like I mean I feel a lot of pressure. You're the welcome to the couch. Thank you for having me. So we're GONNA start how he started every interview. Just Skim your resume for us. So I started out my career in politics six. I'm born and raised in the DC area and went to the leadership conference on Civil and human rights which is the nation's oldest largest civil rights coalition that no one has ever heard of. But they're behind every major piece of legislation since the march on Washington and they're a coalition of women's or LGBT or eggs and black and brown ours and so what was awesome about. It was right then I got to kind of get a lay of the land of the entire like social justice progressive policy world. So from there I went to run in the national use arm for the Center for American progress which they call like the White House in waiting. It's Clinton Chief of staff ran it and it was just the forefront of progressive policy and my job was to figure out how to work with young people millennials to get them involved and support their campaigns and in the process ended up on TV quite a bit and my spokesperson and fell in love with that part of the work did a couple more jobs in that arena went to the citizen engagement lab which is like this really cool incubator for social change projects and kind of had carved out at this role for myself as like the Voice of Progressive Millennial America. You know what I mean and I loved it and it was fine and it was flashy and exciting and yet there was a part. Pardon me that felt like I want more than this. For my life felt very limited then became the creative director the first creative director of up worthy which at the time was like a social good buzzfeed inroad a buck and then went to snapchat and built a program. They are called the creators lab. It was the first of its kind. It was a program physical space to bring storytellers digital media creators and influences together to have meaningful conversations. And now I run my own company. So that's the that's the resume and the highlight so we can get when something not on your linked in that we should know about you. I have been singing in the choir and directed McGuire. That was a little girl so music is like my passion outside of work and I bring that up. Just because it's kind of what I do is try to create the same spaces professionally that I felt. As a little girl growing up a pastor's kid singing and having meaningful meaningful conversations and community with people that still very much a part of the mindset that I bring to everything I do. What's your favorite song to Sing Whitney? Houston's I love the Lord which she sang in the preacher's that's why I love it. It's so good. When you started to say Whitney Houston I was like Oh my God me too? I'm like I WANNA dance with somebody and then you went into. Yeah I know I'm GonNa Dance. Somebody's a good one. So let's talk about how you grow grew up in DC. Your father was a preacher. You call yourself a preacher's preacher's daughter for life. What does that mean to you? The way that I view the world everything than I am came from that experience so the way TV depicts black. Churches coaches is actually not the way that most black churches in America are most of them are actually very small kind of like mom and pop. They call them storefront churches. So that's what ours was and felt like a giant family family. He started the church literally in our basement when I was nine months old. So when people say they grew up in church like literally of course then the church moved out and had the real building and all that stuff but my life revolved around a couple of key principles around service so ours was the door that was always open. If you needed a place to stay needed to be bailed L. out of jail in the middle of the night like you called my father it was that kind of orientation around just selfless giving it was oriented around having honest authentic conversations so whether it was because he was counseling people or the group or Sunday mornings. It was just this. Is the place where you can be real where you can be. Authentic used. Always say like we're not interested. Is it in your Sunday. Best like how you look in your outfit but we want to get to know the real you and have meaningful conversations and so that is kind of been a thread through everything that I've done in my life. I've realized that I've been doing that whether it was in the sphere of politics or media or attack my main mission was select. Let's cut through the BS and have meaningful conversations that can help you change your life and change the world in some way and I got that straight from from my father and really both of my parents. We met you with four ever really knowing this part of your background and so it was really really fun to kind of research and read more about you realize what a huge part of who you are is really based around your dad and based around growing up that way and around faith we are struck once said where you said you define in view faith specifically that your faith is about wonder what does that mean in general but particularly for for our generation for those who grew up like in the nineties in two thousand and even now the way that faith is presented in the public sphere is very much about certainty. Like you have to know these these things and believe these things. There are these lines around religion. That safe you you know you have to know with absolute certainty that this happened in this way and I just find and that to be such a limiting way of thinking about a God who was ultimately big massive and unknowable. Right and so I prefer to think of faith as looking at the. Aw and under of the things that I don't understand the things that there are no clear answers for. I'm not GonNa sit in debate science. There's an answer for that right but there's so many things we don't know and don't understand and you can't put words to love you can't put words to kind of like your own growth and development and all of these beautiful amazing things and so my faith practice is really really grounded in just the wonder awe of life and how how it exists and how we communicate and engage with one another and I think if you do that you can kind of free yourself from so many restrictions that society and institutions have put on your faith and your spirit and your internal life. I feel like that was beautiful too. Yeah I'm amazed that someone who has this authentic sense to face can then go into politics girl me too and and I are benthic since a face because I think that both parties all parties. There's kind of a religious pandering. How did you reconcile that? It was was hard but I went and pretty naive. I went into that world for the purest reason possible which I must say actually a lot of my colleagues did to. Let's be clear. A lot of people who are doing social impact work whether on the activist side of the political side tend to go in with a really pure mission. I want to change people's lives. I went to help help. People recognize their own power change systems and structures all that stuff like I felt like it was a continuation of my fathers when he did in our community. And I was like. This is just a different Scale a different level in a way to do that that you know spirit and and services one thing but let's talk about systems so I went in with that mindset and then saw what it is that I think everybody sees. which is you know all the red tape all the hypocrisy again very similar to how most people view religion right these are institutions? That are very change focused and I think when you go in with that power gets involved and things become corrupted and so it was really hard and talk about this in the book and the chapter on faith with and actually in the chapter on work and in identity. I think I talked about I do but just this idea that I was struggling to reconcile all the different parts of WHO. Yeah I was and so at work. I didn't talk about faith a lot for very obvious reasons right especially if you're progressive. We're not supposed to talk about that. Because Faith Jason Religion is supposed to be owned by conservatives and so that's just not a thing that's really cool to talk about and then on the flip. When I was home in my faith environment I was not talking about the fact that like Hey I am on the frontlines literally fighting for marriage equality fighting for reproductive rights and justice which were taboo topics in the church and so I was was kind of walking this line for a while and I think part of why I ended up at a point where I said? I can't do this anymore. I have to remake my life and write a new story for myself was because because of that I was living kind of this divided existence. Well a lot of people. It's a don't necessarily have the extreme of the divided existence that you're referencing. Lots of people have a job and feel like this isn't me like I'm not doing what I'm supposed to be doing fulfiled because of a multitude of reasons but ultimately this is informed me. That doesn't mean that everybody is like okay. Take a step back and rewrite my story really really hard thing to do and to have the courage to do I want to just kind of get into your mindset around around how you thought about stepping away from that and also I wanNA talk about relationship with money because it's not just emotional courage that you need to have to step away from something but it's also financial courage which is a really personal thing to think through. Yeah yeah it was tough book turbans saying like you don't have to do it this way. You can slow down. You can think I didn't do much of that abruptly quit my job. You talk about how you quit your job. It was an angry email. It just don't recommend that I had just come back from my honeymoon. I was on this high of living life. I'd be doing yoga. Whatever I came back and it was to be fair? My last job was not a great job. It was really toxic. I had a terrible boss. I was being disrespected. It wasn't just like I'm I'm mildly unhappy. It was like a job I needed to get out of. I didn't plan on doing it that day. Hey but I got an email. That was like once again while it had been on vacation. It had changed my job description without any conversation about it. They had messed up my pay. Hey there was just all of these things. I don't know what came over me because I am not usually a person who does things just that suddenly sent an email and I was like okay. Great thank you. This is my last day working for you but by and I walked into my living room with my brand spanking new husband and was like so I just quit my the job. What did he say he was stunned? But on the other hand he's like all right. Erica okay like I don't make rash decisions but I do move with my gut. And he knew how miserable I had been in that job so he was surprised but he wasn't surprised. I on the other hand became very surprised. Like maybe like an hour later. I you have that feeling we. Did they write back I don't know I log out of my email. I never logged back on C.. Never have spoken to them since then but I don't know what their reaction was. That's on that day about how I would be like trying to get back in a moment. I mean five minutes later what did I do. I need to see what they wrote any till I felt like I felt like I'd had some sort of a stroke like you do it. And then you feel really high. And it's just a super exciting and then slowly settles in. I tell that story for two reasons. One you don't have to do it that way but to I do tell it because people like me. We are never supposed to do that when you hear the quitting stories. You've got your eat. Pray Love you've got your Jerry Maguire's right like young women young black women `young load middle income. Women are never supposed to step back. There's a stigma around the idea of quitting. And I just encourage people not to abruptly quit or make unwise decisions agents but to know that it is okay to step away from something that isn't serving the world will not end. If you can figure out and we'll get into that part the financial piece of it which is huge huge. I just want to take away the stigma of that because sometimes you have to take a step away. Even if you can't quit your job though I do think it's imperative of that. How ever you can in your life that you create some space as opposed to just dwelling in the unhappiness and the being unfulfilled and the complaining which we naturally do right you gotta let off seems way but I think there's just a sense of feeling stuck and the only way out of feeling suck is to move and by movement I mean create eight some space in your life to start trying to think deeply and proactively about? What can I do to change things? What can my next be? You won't necessarily find in the immediate answer her. But it's asking the key questions that I think can help as CEO's CEO's. We are very busy very very busy important people and we are always looking to get time back and in that way we are just like everyone else because no one has enough time no matter what you do no matter where you're from there are never enough hours in the day so we are obsessed with helping all of you spend your time wisely and we're going to give you the biggest tip on that it is Asian are blocks tax pro. Tis The season you have to do your taxes. Taxes taxes are easy when you use H and R block tax pro. All You have to do is upload your tax documents and attacks pro literally does everything else. It is truly the easiest way to have the expert expert. Like do it for you. But you don't have to go anywhere you do it at home. And they're trained to get you every deduction credit that you deserve go to H R block dot com slash skim that is HR block dot com slash skim. It is better with block and we couldn't recommend the sport. Doc I want to talk about the financial part Because I always feel like to your your point when we hear these stories or when we talk about our story and taking on credit card debt I feel like that Perkins glossed over when you're hearing stories where it works out. How did you think through that? What's your advice to people that are going through that themselves? I mean advice want advice point number one is do not abruptly quit your job. You can actually take a little bit of time to plan but in either case So I'll tell you what happened with me so I Also how old are you this. Plan Twenty seven thirty seven now twenty-eight sorrows and you know I had no idea what I was going to do next and this is the part that's going to Piss people off because it's like my faith the`miracle managing staff but the next day. I had an e mail in my inbox from someone I had met before in like a professional networking group. WHO said Hey? I don't know if you do consulting but I've got a client that I think would love to just talk to you and pick your brain about kind of how to engage millennials and social impact stuff. And I was like yes I definitely do. Yeah absolutely I do. I had never consulted before. I had no idea what that entailed. But I was like. Okay ass and the client and then that being coca-cola like it was my massive so random But that was a short term project and it wasn't like a consistent income and it took a while to get paid and I still didn't really know what I was doing. I also had throughout the entirety tired of my work. Life had a side Gig which is also something I encourage people to do. Don't run yourself. Ragged and drive yourself into the ground to have ten jobs. My identity has never ver- been solely tied to my one job. Because I know that all of WHO I am fit into one job. We try to put pressure on ourselves. That kind of have every single part of who we are every passion and every gift and talent in one job that will never happens. I've always had multiple streams of income so I had media and communications training on the side that I'd always he's done and so I basically put the word out like I can do more of that now guys and so I kind of consistently had that coming in that hustle. Come from your family weirder that come from that. You always always had that stuff happening. It wasn't even the hustle that came from my family. What came from my family was the idea that you have to use all of your gifts? It was again a very existential spiritual the thing that if you have gifts and talents it is your job to figure out how to use them to serve the world so it wasn't really about like I gotTa Hustle and multiple jobs. It was like okay if my job. Bob Isn't taking advantage of the fact that I do this too. I'M GONNA go find a way to do it. It really was me trying to find fulfilment that then turned into okay so then that means you're hustler and you have multiple gigs. How do you react when people say? I want to be able to bring my whole self to work. Well that's rare. It's very rare. The metaphor that I give in the book is that statement is like pretending you have to get all of your belongings in a carry on suitcase in one carry on right. He's someone who has to check every time I I understand. What do you really annoying one time one time and we were there ten days and like I don't understand how you didn't check check check moon? You should have just checked with me. It was really annoying. Wasn't it. Yeah you don't have to fit your entire life in A carry on you have multiple suitcases and so it is important that you can bring your best self to work. Meaning if you're coming to work and the part of you that is showing showing up is not you know positive is not maximizing your talent. That's a problem but you don't have to bring your whole self even when I was talking about my faith side and my political side. I wasn't looking for a job that was going to let me like have a protest sign in one arm and like a Communion Cup in the other. They're like I'm not expecting my job to allow me to express all of those. I wanted to be in a place where I didn't have to pretend to be someone else. It's rare that you'll find the job that takes advantage of every single one of your talents and skills you can put those into different areas of your life with side hustles with hobbies with community service. Your job is to complete the circle of your life. But you don't have to do that. In one slice you moved to Los Angeles. I did why I wish I had like a super bossy progressive feminist. Answer for that my my husband. He wanted to move. I went kicking and screaming because I was like California. Had Your family react. Oh they were not happy my grandmother till the day. Hey that she passed away. She passed away a couple years ago. We were very very close and she. She loved my husband too. Because we've known each other since high school so he's part of the family but till the day she passed away every time. I would come home Tom. She would pat my head and say he won't let you leave how Hollywood secondhand not like holding it is. My family was not happy about the but I'm glad I did at the time that I'd quit my job. I didn't know what the next forget. Forget job I didn't know what the next season of my life was. who was I going to be next? What was my identity? What did I want to do? And it was so good to begin a new space to to explore that to be in a space where our lays a very like multi hyphen culture. I'm this and this and this and this and that was what I needed to be who I am so it was good to be in that environment. One of the things we asked a lot is when people either have gaps on their resume and terms of years taken off or whether maybe they were consulting freelancing doing doing multiple things at once how to position themselves then for a fulltime role. Because you did eventually take fulltime rolls what we're small startups than than one became snap. Yeah Yeah but how did you position yourself as someone for fulltime role. If I was GONNA pick one career skill I would tell people. It's the art of crafting. Your story story and I don't mean that in the abstract sense like your life journey I mean literally what is the story. How do you tell a tizzy what has happened in your life? If people don't recognize their power to do that you assume that you have these pieces. I have this job. I have this consulting gig. I have this gap and I just have to presents the pieces to someone and let them put them together however they want. No you decide how you string them together so for example instead of saying well I worked in politics and I had a job and then I left that job and then I was consulting and I was consulting with a corporate client and this and that and then I work attack. I was stringing together to say I've been on a journey journeys in three different industries to identify how to tell the best stories to young people right like that is a way of talking about it. Another way of talking about it is I could say at three three change focus industries. I have worked to help. Young people figure out the best way to create meaningful impact and transformation not lies suspending. Its packaging. And you can't do that on the fly. You have to take the time to kind of look and say what is the threat here. What was similar between this experience and that experience even if they were wildly different jobs or wildly different industries? Has there been one key motivation. has there been one key skill. Set that you've used and tying it together give someone someone the ability to say. This is the package I'm presenting you and it looks good. What has been helpful to you as you have gone through those moments of introspection two things so one is faith? But the way that I'll talk about that here is just saying like really developing your inner life before you start seeking out. INSTAGRAM quotes quotes influencers. Books I mean. All of those things can be helpful but I found that they are most helpful once. You've done the inner work to figure things out as best as you can on your own first. And here's why I say that influencers and self help books and all that stuff can be very very helpful. I mean I know I wrote one. It is amazing and it is hopefully very very practical and helpful to everyone who try to carve out a new life but they don't replace the inner work you have to do for yourself first of all. You're never seeing anyone's entire entire story anyway. You're looking at their instagram account. And you're like wow. That was easy for them. They quit their job and then the next day they had a brand supporting them. Whatever it is and you don't know the real story so one is like being really consistent and committed to my own inner girls like what does it mean to listen to myself? What do I actually enjoy doing? So that's one thing and the second is just as best you can hand find people who get you and support you whether that's friends or partner or if you need to join some sort of group whatever it is but I found that I wasn't the only one going this transition at that time. I mean some people had quit their jobs. Some people hadn't but understood and we're able to say like yeah. I'm rooting for you. You got this when you are working working for somebody else working at a company. Are you good on a team. I'm very good on a team. I'm not happy being told what to do. So are you to manage. I think I am to be honest. I'm hard because because I am always the person in the room that like if someone tells me what to do I'm like cool. I suggested no way instead like so. It's annoying. I'm sure so. Because there's a lot of people would say they also got driven what you're talking about resonates with them. which is that? There are very key parts of themselves that they are bringing to work in the parts of themselves. Maybe people don't see yet and they make decisions in a way that works for them and isn't necessarily following a rule book in an operational plan. But that doesn't mean that that those people are going to quit their jobs and start something. I'm very curious what advice you would give to those people about how to thrive in a more corporate environment the mindset shift that I had that eventually actually made me a good employee. Even though I don't like being play one was when I saw every opportunity as a chance to learn something I would see these environments as okay. This is like this is like school. I'm here to learn something. Learn people learn what it is. They're doing and how are they making decisions and I started to see it as a challenge to learn as much as I what could we tend to because we're not bring full to work which we don't necessarily need to but we tend to have very surfaced and shallow conversations with the people that we work with the more I was really really transparent and honest at work about what I was struggling with at work. Let me be clear. Not My personal life but You Know Hey. I'm having a difficult time time with this or I saw this way. You saw this. We can you explain that to me or yeah. I'm usually not good in this environment but I'm trying to get better. Can you help me like just being really honest. Just the more. My connections with my bosses were authentic and they actually wanted to help me thrive and didn't see me as competition it just felt much more collaborative operative so learning and being as on its and transparent as you can about where you are if you are having any challenges that the combination of those two things made me much better not member so the single worst thing happened to me yes. Have you ever accidentally picked up your significant others toothbrush and used it by mistake. Because that happened to me and I take out my tongue and my teeth I would. It was most horrifying thing in the entire world. That's that's gross. It was grows and reminded me that. If I had used my clip I would have known what was mine quips. Electric Brush has a sensitive sonic vibrations with a built in timer and thirty second pulses to guide to a full and even clean also. I really appreciate this quip delivers fresh fresh brush heads floss and toothpaste refills to your door. Every three months because who remembers to switch them out they do that with free shipping. So your routine As always right on and if you go to get clipped dot com slash scam right now. You will get your first refill free. That is your very first refill. FREE AT GET QUIP DOT COM Tom Slash Skim. I'm going to sell it for you. It is G. E. T. Q. U. IP DOT com slash skin. Quip is be good habits company. You've called yourself a one woman important. Conversations Business which I I like? How do you suggest people start that conversation at work or just in general? I think in general because I think a lot of people want to be be introspective and also there are so many demands and distractions and you're refreshing AFI checking email tax. goes off that it's hard hard to know how to actually start having those types of conversations. Either with yourselves more with the other people in your life adjust practicing asking questions. I was just with a friend yesterday and he was like I know people ask. How am I was like what? That's a very general basic questions. I mean that's the point like what is it that you want to know. Do you want to know. Oh how my day was. Do you want to know how emotionally who's GonNa come up to you and just ask out of the blue. How are you doing emotionally intense? And he's like I know but I WANNA get to the heart of the issue and I was like okay. No one's GONNA start off that way but it is a good practice as you're having conversations to keep asking questions to go a little bit deeper as opposed to leaving things things at the surface level so instead of just saying like how are you fine. Great you can ask someone what's been going on with your week as they answer questions continuing to ask because I find that we all start off surface all of us. We all start off with just a quick answers and the quick shallow questions but the deeper we go the more people realize you're genuinely interested in me. You're genuinely interested in what I have to say or what I think. And when people feel as if they matter they tend to much more quickly be authentic antic and strip some of that surface to me. That's the easiest way to start is to make sure that whoever you're talking to knows that you you actually care about what they're saying and continue to ask deeper questions. The narrative intelligence. It's my favorite thing. It's really the core kind of principle that I teach in the book. Narrative intelligence is our ability to understand and see the stories. Is that are shaping us in shaping the world around us so we talk about emotional intelligence. IQ right but no one ever teaches us that everything we see everything we consume is telling us a story that is shaping how we think and how we view the world and all the industries that I worked in. They know this very well right. Like politics understands. The power story media understands the power of story even the tech industry right. I worked at snapchat snapchat literally created the vertical story format story being a frame for your experience. It's these are industries that understand using story to get people to think a certain way believe and behave a certain way and we the average person just sitting around consuming and have no no idea that that's happening so narrative intelligence is in some ways putting that power back in the hands of people and saying okay. When I'm watching this film? What is it actually you telling me? What is the premise based on? What is the narrative here? Yes it's a fun love story but it is telling me the story that there is one soulmate one person for me out of the billions of people on this planet. Do I believe that or not right like asking that question. That's narrative intelligence in practice. If someone is telling doing me that the best way to succeed is to hustle and make a lot of money and Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah and. They have this kind of very clear path to stop. and Ask yourself self before you just run in and do it. They say ask yourself. What are they telling me about success? What is the story here about my purpose about my identity? Do I believe that yes or no. It's not up to me to tell you whether it's good or bad but just the act and the art of saying what is the real story here. And how can I see it. And then make a conscious choice to accept did or reject it as I'm sure people are listening and probably going to be very inspired and are going to be like I didn't know who it was. I'm going to follow her now. Like I I like the story I like. I like the story. She's telling and they're GONNA buy your book. Yeah they're going to buy her out. But I think the question people are going to have is. How do you make money doing what you're doing like wizard job? What does your day to day look like? It's just found someone the other day who said Oh it's a portfolio career and I was like Oh what Buzzer buzzword. They just learned it means. I do several things but they are all tied to what we've just talked about. So how do I make money. I consult with organizations brands when they WANNA have important conversations whether with their employees or their consumers. I'll come in and help them design an event or design kind of a messaging campaign designed like we want to have an important conversation about issue. She acts or about topic x Eric. Help US strategize that come facilitate that. So that's one way. Second way is through content through books. Do podcasts through workshops and trainings things so I come in and I actually help people help staff. I helped regular individual people craft their story and understand how to better talk about their life their work and and then the last thing is like hosting and facilitating so moderating and interviewing. I love to ask questions so those are all the pieces. What sage house does which is my company is? It does all that like I said Ed specifically for brands and for organizations and so we'll come in and design the meaningful conversation that helps you write a story. Can you talk about the name. Yes so it's funny. I didn't think about this at first which I probably should have but being in California when I said Stage House people thought I meant like sage. That's why ass I was like no I. We have been known to sage office during the year and my home. So wasn't that but I guess it works too 'cause I am very spiritual and he did but no I meant it because sage as in a wise the person that we are generation in a society right now that is so overloaded with information and we have access to anything we want to know what our fingertips but wisdom is deeper than that it is. How do you apply that as how do you process that? How do you sort through that information? Fine Gems that help us live better lives that is what stages are and I think we have too few sages in too many influencers and so kind of what my mission is with these conversations and these spaces and this content ah is always to dig deep and get to the true wisdom of how we can live time for our last round favorite round. Okay row lightning first job working and physical therapy a PT assistant physical therapist assistant. Worst job the one that I had that I quit. WHO's the first phone call? You make when you get good news my husband. What about when you get bad news? My sister what's the most recent show you benched hip hop evolution on that flight. I'm obsessed it's really good. What's your biggest vice carbs? The French guests potato lava potato last book. You Read Atomic Habits by James Clear a layer DC ONO EH. How about L. A. or New York? Oh La. I can't stand. What's your shameless plug? Shameless plug is my book. You deserve the truth. My website heirlooms DOT com. Where you can sign up for workshops that I'm leading virtual workshops about the topics in the book awesome haircut? Thank you so much for being with us today. Thank you so much. Thanks for hanging out with us. Join US next week for another episode of skin from the couch. And if you can't wait until until then subscribe to our daily email newsletter that gives you all the important news and information. You need to start your day sign about the scam dot com that's the SK S K. I am DOT COM two. M's for a little something extra.

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