Inside NYPD with Corey Pegues
I love to talk about policing with people who really know about policing because this has been a major problem for the black community like the entire time. We've been here in America. And the solution to the problem is not for both sides to come together. It's not for both sides to change its for the police to change the police need to serve the people in more judicious ways. The police are the government. And where else do we talk about? How we the citizens can better serve our government. No, it's for us to change for our police. It's for the police to change because we deserve a police force that understands de-escalation that's truly about crime reduction. That's not looking at the people it serves as an ATM, it can get money from I live in Brooklyn. And I'm constantly afraid of the police in my community. Why is that that should not? Be I wanna go deep into policing here with Corey pa- geese was on the NYPD for twenty one years. He was a commanding officer in some of the most violent precincts in the city. He's the author of the memoir wants a cop, and he's a friend. We're going inside the NYPD. It's Corey police on Tori show. Did you find your officers feeling that sense of this is my community to protect and serve because it seems like officers especially in the black community that they're coming into smash and grab rather than protecting serve. Well, I coined the phrase that's been all over the media from me than black communities. They hunt in non minority community protecting and I can say that after twenty one years and working in communities of color, all different communities, white communities. Black says manning, I worked all over the City, New York is a clear you can clearly see and they hunt and minority communities, and so when I was a command I made sure that I I listened that. I remember I read in somebody said that police officers are constantly encountering people who were at their lowest moment preps definitely in their day perhaps in their life and Kanzi seeing the worst brought out. A people, and when the cops show up everybody doesn't start acting like a choir boy and girl as dirt frigging out. They might resist. They might start to tell a story that may or may not be the truth to try to get out of the situation. So the officers are constantly encountering people in very difficult. Moments acting out of the way, they normally are and those prep start to think this is the way that people are so I cannot trust people. Right. And now, what does the police these people, and I cannot trust them? How do I do that? Right. So is this part of how officers get corrupted and start to walk into situations in don't de-escalate and maybe finger at the wrong person take away the wrong person. Or no, I mean, you just hit it just think about it. We could just use food. If I mean, I only eat chicken and fish, you might eat more than that. But if you eat ate chicken every day all day for three or four years, you probably going to start hating chicken. Same thing. You still go into a community. Forget about if. This ity you can be a blackout. We're gonna black neighborhood in all you dealing with the low totem pole every single day domestic violence gun runs. Robberies all day every day. Eventually a might put you into a place where you say these people are animals with it really not because of a side of the president got half a million dollar homes. But you don't you don't go to that side of the precent. Right. They look like those people over here on the low socio economic cited the precent. So this is why so important for police department is municipalities to do psychologically value with. Let's just be honest. Every cop that's out there shouldn't be a cop. Some should be working to McDonald's every podcast interview. Shouldn't be doing podcasts. Still working. So there's a small percentage of police. Oh, what happens is magnified because it's the only profession in the United States would citizens give the cops right to take life. If imminent deadly physical forces being used against you or somebody else imminently. So right now if somebody came in here pulled a gun out, and it was a cop standing over there. He got the right to kill so have responsibility and every copping Bill for that. I think about it. Twenty one years old never had a girlfriend living mama's basement high school education school education, what sixty four credits, and we use why PD sixty four college credits. How much college is sixty four that's two years. So you gotta have gone to some level collar little bit. But you still live at home. Six months later, you get a gun show, and they go go conquer were officer, Tori, you're outta your first job is valley domestic you never had a girlfriend. You gotta handle this. You don't even really not relationships in x one is down right down on Broadway. Six foot five blackmail froth at the mouth, but naked you by yourself. You got handled an extra might be a dog in the tree. But you you understand what I'm saying Diese situations that cops are putting and people don't really understand you. The cop is the counselor for domestic violence council for the moisture disturbed person that's down on Broadway. Crazy. He's a counselor for the domestic violence, then he got us try to stop the Bank robber to shooter all of this stuff with six months to non training. So you remember that six dollars? You're getting all of that. But these blocks you might get eight hours of domestic violence training, fifteen hours dental anymore. Disturbed persons three or four days of shooting. So these are all these things that everybody will having police in now police has become do or anything happens. Call the police we're talking about individual officers, right? And smart man said that in any sort of organization eighty five percent of the problems are going to come from the system. Only fifteen percent will come from the workers. Right. And another officer was on this show said it's not about bad apples. It's about the system and the where where the policing system puts its people in what it tells its people to do. And that means a good person may be put in a terrible situation may have to do something that they understand is wrong. Is it really the system that is pushing officers to do things that in retrospect, you're like I wish that he had not done that. I wish that she had not been in that position at all. I think is too. I think is I think is the culture of policing actually coach, which you you call. Blue wall. There's a subculture and police think his leadership, you know, I'm all into leadership, and I was in the military. I studied leadership I was leader was a commander and military and police in is top down leadership is top down. Not bottom up almost like that that phrase you can't let the prison prisoners run the sound. You can't it's like the gone incident. Right. We wash national TV where he got murdered. It was a murder homicide buys fixation. We saw it. And then will you look at Pantaleo officer that murder him? You look at his record. He's against sue for twenty two point five min he had fifteen complaints who let him out when it around Staten Island in plainclothes with all those complaints. Most cops go to whole career we like one or two complaints. It's seven or eight years out all these complaints. How does this happen? So this is what I'm saying was leadership and a culture because the coach allows him to be there. And also the lead is just bypassing. And police believe it or not to more complaints. People get in this is going to blow your mind, they really believed that oh that Gaza guy because he has a stay with at the mall contact you have with police damore probability, you're going to get complaints. So let's just say that guy's been involved in two thousand contacts. So there's a belief dies since he had two thousand context hundred you know, he might have three hundred complaints. It goes along with the job. I feel like the war on drugs for one thing. Miss deploys. Officers has officers looking for certain things and staking out certain locations, and as the country is moving toward decriminalization and legalisation of marijuana. It's changing the nature of policing to certain thing. Because a lot of arrests right? A lot of searching a lot of arrests are around marijuana. Right. You know, you're you're you wanna see like do people have it. How is the? Decriminalization of marijuana changing policing is is it making things better for the officers. They're not policing this crime. Well, believe it or not most police officers over one majority. They don't even want to have contact with people believe it or not with people period. What do you mean? They don't want so people they just wanna get a call in radio you call and somebody Robbie they wanna show up. They don't wanna do proactive. Police like driving on a black. Stop questioning Frisco. They'll see five six males on the corner jump out. So they cops don't wanna do that. At you. I'm a member of leap law enforcement action partnership. I wanted to speak for leap and our position is legalizing drugs period. Especially my wanna that's my position big leading all drugs. Yeah. Just legalize you'd legalize cocaine. Everything later regulator. We the biggest drug in the world is legalize liquor legalize because now you take negative all the. Power outage or dealer on the corner. You take all the power to Dylan the corner, the polices. All good, everything is regulated. Because I mean, the only way to actually kill the underground market is to have it legalized and the price. No longer makes sense. Nobody's killing shoveling a street over drugs. So as we as a nation or decriminalizing and legalizing how is that changing policing? It's changing police in kinda tenfold because now you free up resources. Now, you can actually use police for what you really need them for the seven major crimes rape robbery burglary, Murga grand loss of auto grandma seemed period. And that's what police need to do. They don't need to be running around because important for be. They smelled marijuana coming from three. That's not a police issue. If somebody wants to smoke marijuana, that's what they're doing the only person that hurting themselves, but we can't keep locking people because you know, what it's doing. We breaking families when I get locked up with my wife and kids I get locked up. I'm gonna breadwinner now I'm going I get locked up on Monday. I might see just Thursday when I get out Friday. I have no job. No more. And then, you know, then it the cycle just, and it's goes arbitrary that that alcohol is legal and marijuana's. Not. It is open Sherry like, let's get over it. I mean when you look in the city all the studies just testified for the new city council about my wanna you look at studies all studies show thirty two percent way. Two percent black twenty nine percent. Spanning reuse. Jayme rates saying if you put a map opponents wall use of marijuana new your city, you're gonna see red dots all over the city. But then when you map de arrest in New York City this charts, no around. Yeah. You got David have the east side. Where were you look where you really wanted to police drug use? You can go on any college campus and knock it super easy to cop on any college campus. But they don't raid NYU and Columbia. They raid Brownsville and starring for green wings, right? The bronx. And so at what point do we say, hey, step back, and I put New York City at this point. They deregulate what people don't know nineteen seventy six the state legislators, actually deregulated they use my one. But it was too subdivision that they didn't fix possession of more than two and a half cramps and smoking public. So those are the two two. Area's subdivisions where people again locked up, but now Cuomo actually I was supposed to testify governor last night and quaint, you know, you as a tool going around accident opinions about because he's ready. He's ready. He's on board to legalize it is he's on board the governor's onboard to legalize not think next year. So New York is should be legal one of the things that we learned out of the whole Ferguson situation is the the depth and breath of four profit policing. And the way that officers are deployed to write parking tickets summonses with the intent to claw money from the citizens quite often from working class citizens who don't have this kind of money, which is ultimately about trying to make up a shortfall that municipalities are feeling because every citizen wants lower taxes. So the politician give it to him, but every citizen also wants the same level services. So how do we make? The shortfall. The police will make up the shortfall. How do you feel about being part of that machinery that is clawing money from the look them the working class the lowest members of society, the people who need every dime. The most and the and the police are just clawing money. I mean, that's not protecting serving. No snot. And let me just correct. You. I called that. I call that small town police present doesn't happen that doesn't have any New York City. No, it does have. So then be clear. Let me just I'm be very, I'm even black or white. I don't I don't sugar coat. So let me tell you. Yes. We write some stuff here in New York City. We do an actually some as down a lot since you know, there was a lot of talk about it. But and these small towns, it's a lot different because remember Ferguson, they might have sixty cops stiffen, we got forty thousand. Right. So when we do it is really gonna be exposed you. You can tell. Well, because everything's transparent, you know, at the end of the quarter, the physical year all these numbers are put out. So we're able to do you know to decrease the cops don't even want to do that stuff. Tores NYPD an LAPD the bailing the big ones own engage in four four profit policing. It's it's. I don't wanna say for profit police in because we don't get to utilize the money like the small towns Unicenter. So when they get there get the money now, they're utilizing to get more vehicles, more quit men and stuff like that. When we our money is going into the coffers of the city ahead. Lieutenant Edwin Raymond on the show, you know, you know. Yeah. And he blew my mind when he said, no, the police force is not about protecting serving. It's about generating money for the city, and or state everyone is look at NYPD. Yeah. He's correct. That. That's my buddy. He's his little young new to the job younger than you a little more high strung. Let's just listen. Are you saying incorrect on that? I think he's misled a great cop should be able to work eight hours and actually not arrest anybody or write some of the he ac- should be able to use what they call. It discretion to fix it. If there's a double car, let's find that hold knock on a couple of doors. Hey, sir. Man. Tories issue vehicle you need to move vehicle. I'm going to give you some fine. He got rid of that. There's a domestic violence incident. You should be over there because he should know everybody on the block, and that's what real good police. That's not the policing. We get it get it sometime. So what happens in policing, the bad things that magnified think about if you're if you are an officer's leg. Hey discretion. I feel a an arrest was warranted there, but you go home month with no arrests. You had a problem? Right. That's the old police, and they change in that, we don't we? We don't have quotas anymore. Believe it or not they really changing it. They're really changing it. If you look in its public information, you see some is down arrested. Now, everything is now my daughter's cop, my nephew's, a cop cops are even wanna do anything. They want to do anything in the wake of this thing right here cell phone videos that the cop wants to front pages of newspaper the dower. Okay. So to reactive department. Well, we're getting into the Ferguson effect thing that that that police the. Ferguson effect is that police officers supposedly don't want to engage as much as they used to. Because they don't wanna get in trouble. They don't feel that the mayor or the higher ups will support them. So, but the data does not show officers standing down these are you seeing officers standing down because they don't want to. I'm telling you from real world. Just knowing thousands of cops information, my context and policing all over the country that police really are not engage in like they used to in his almost what I believe is going to be to the detriment of police because you're expatriation. My expectation is of a cop that I need you to go out there. Protect serve keep my community safe. So I actually really want a proactive Cup. I wanna I wanna reactive cop. So you're saying the Ferguson effect, Israel, Israel is definitely a lot of other cups told me. Not is that that when they may want to stay in the car. But when the radio goes when they see something they get out and deal with it, even as they're like, no because that's a cop. That's that's an expectation. I want that. If you say something, Mike speculation is for you to get out of that vehicle handle it, right? But what I'm saying is defer of FEC is that proactive when they just driving on Plock, and they see people on corners and stuff cops and not jumping out on them. And you might see some do. And you know, I like to always, you know, on pretty talking about Ferguson now Utah. Are you talking about the broken windows style of police? No, both the Ferguson has affected broken windows because they don't even want to do the broken windows, broken windows. They rose as one window broken the building they'll be yes. So we're gonna hard be hard on everything. Little things jumping loitering ranking in pub- that seems to me to be very problematic. Actually when I started and early nineties thing about it was again a reactive department. So when we first started doing this whole, and I might totally defending some facts. So when we first started grabbing people turnstiles finding out Tories wonderful murder. We wasn't stopping people before how often are you stopping somebody for some the smaller crunch, fair jumping loitering the little things and out. Oh, he was he's one of somebody say, it's a small percentage, it's a small percentage, but it was small enough who's able to remember small that admit that it mattered Matic. Remember reading one percent ninety three was nineteen hundred homicides in new city lash it was less than three hundred. So it actually worked and it took some type of my position was I wait wait away. Were you're not saying that the that the the drop in the murder rate is due to the broken windows philosophy. V it has some because the murder rate has plummeted nationwide. But I'm telling you and rural and urban communities all sorts from east to west north south the murder rate has plummeted. We're at like a century low new right but not about broken. Something bigger. I mean, you think about the private prison industry and all the folks who in and out of that industry who profit from incarceration and the entire Justice system, and the police of the foot soldiers of that gatekeepers criminal Justice system. That's why so important like I talked about that tune one year livers, mama and becomes a competent summoned this powder. You can be a of twenty maybe nineteen down south and little little towns. So it's a heavy responsibility. Putting the brakes on somebody you get ready to start the process to the criminal Justice system. That's why so important imperative for psychologically, valuations drilling down going to their background making sure that they can handle the job because every cop can't handle the job. And I want to just say like on camera. I don't whoever else came in and said, whatever I'm telling you, and I'm hard on cops. But the over one majority of the police officers they out they just don't job. They don't want. They don't I'm telling you. They'll wanna fight then wanna get in those shoot outs. We'll get back to the show in a second. But how do you take care of your family? If the worst thing imaginable happened what happened if you were to drop dead and not be here anymore. Could you take care of your family? Then I mean, everything you do now is to take care of your family going to the games recitals tucking minute night, making sure they're to the right school. Make sure they have the right food. Make sure that you are working. So you can take care of your everything you do for your family. But what happens if you weren't here? That's what life insurance is for to take care of your family when you're not around if you don't have life insurance. Now's the time to think about it policy genius is the easy way to compare life insurance online and just five minutes. You can compare quotes from the top insurers and find the best policy for you. They don't just do life insurance. They also do disability insurance ranters insurance health insurance. If you care about it, they can cover it. Don't put off. Getting life insurance any longer go to policy genius dot com. Get quotes and apply in minutes. Four million people have used policy genius. You can be four million and one policy is the easy way to compare and by life insurance, you can take care of your family. Even if you're not here. You were industry for several years before you went to the military. And then then you became a police officer what you learn in the street that helped you as a police officer one of the things I learned in the streets. It was was I don't trust anyone. I didn't trust anyone, you know being. She's talking my when I was selling drugs and stuff. Yeah. So I didn't trust anyone you couldn't trust your mother the cops. We're two girlfriends got worry about the people use drugs with have worry about everybody. So I always took that mentality in life. I don't trust. Nobody always look at somebody would deter, and that's what made me so successful as police officer. So I would never trust anybody. I interested anybody, especially if you told me just don't worry about it. I got it. No, no, no. I need to come with you to make sure that this job is being done correctly. I understand how a giving person stays on top of an organization. He's he's at a he or she is at a above ground. Organization she he's the vice president. Okay. I'm gonna listen to him. Right. Where I'm listen her. If you're in a criminal organization things are much more fluid. Why not pull out a gun and kill the lead guy. And then you become the lead guy. Like, why not what's the stop you? There's no HR. Hey, you can't do that all the police. So why do you or whoever why are you able to stay at the top? And keep everybody listening to you. When they're probably all ALPHA's. They're probably all hotheads listen to him. But for me, remember, so I came from a criminal organisation actually was like if it was a company be a fortune one hundred company, you know, we had a si yo, you know, vice president lieutenants Rex street workers where I was on the bottom of the so going from that to the military, which is the same structure into police. So I knew you know, where the power was and where leadership was and how organizations should be run. And I was always able to motivate people. You always got. You gotta give a little to get a little, and you know, I teach at mega college. I teach ethics right now in public administration. And I told my I was teaching my class. Just as a leader you say, yes, you're shifts in the first day, you say, no, they're gonna hate. They went three everybody. So I say I will piss people off real quick in any position. I took his leader. I wanted to get the hate out quick. 'cause now I start giving them I start giving him carrots. And they say, oh that guy really ain't that bad. He ain't that bad. So I say, no. And I say, no. And then you come back, and you start giving them you need to take off. You got a special needs child. Take three days. You gotta go to watch just had a baby and said eight we gonna give you now. So they forgot all about this bag on beginning to that became as good guy. And they will go to war for me. That's just a little leadership trait that ice to us. How do you move up as a cop? Why does certain certain guys walking to beat? Get to move up, and you got to a very high level fairly quickly. How do you how do you move up NYPD tests? So you take a test for Lieutenant than cabinet is waded on one hundred keep crushing it. Yeah. You got keep but it's it's like taking a ball exam. But is there more to it than just killing the tests because they gotta be they gotta like, you gotta respect you. Well, it's pretty much passed a test unless you like really don't be in as a sergeant. You will never make Lieutenant is it's not rocket science. 'cause it was rocket science IBM. Nasa. You understand what I'm saying? So it's really not that difficult. You could pass the test have some type of working knowledge of what your position is and pass the next test. And then you get up, and I wish you make captain Nasser the points. You know, you wanna be a commanding officer you want prestigious positions. Now, you gotta show which capable of doing. I mean, I was a captain I make captain I got on command in ten months, which is what speed most captains they wait three four five years before they get their first command. But Ray Kelly saw something in me. And I believe. Sean bell killing at something to do with that. I call it black Friday because when Sean bell got shot forty four times. I got my own command Phil banks, which is former chief. He got a command Jimmy seems like six black commanders got promoted when they which has never happened in. Why PD Sean bell was at his bachelor party. Yes it right before he's about to get married before. And the night before he's about to get married, and he got shot in the parking lot behind the where he was having party strip club. And you're saying that that his his murder, which was major news throughout New York City for a while his murder led to you and several other black people being elevated because Ray Kelly the Commissioner said I need to put more Brown faces. And nobody could tell me different they'll tell you different. But it never happened before they were looking for black people quickly. This was a bad shooting. It came off the hills of I'm gonna do. And held up. His wallet got shot even held it up. I think he was reaching reaching for his thinking for his key. Probably the open the door and got shot and got shot up forty sometimes I mean, both of those shooters were pretty much fairly fi shooters. What people don't know like the the Ahmadou shooting actually when the first guy star shooting the Isla he fell back off the steps. And so his guy star he got shot. He just tripped they him for back. And so they just start shooting shooting shooting shooting fell when they stop they shot them date. They thought he shot so they're trying to kill the threat that shot him. I'm gonna do the aisle or they thinking that he shot him Unisem when somebody else shrive they think he got shot when he tripped on the stairs and fell back with. And that's when I go Bogle, even the Sean bell shooting. I mean, I find the cops. But. No copies day not going to shoot somebody fifty times. There has to be something else. N not sure what you mean. Like the Sean bell shooting. It was a Lieutenant on the scene leadership top down. There should've been somebody that took charge. Even if it's going to be a situation where it's going to be shooting designated, Tori, you're gonna be designated shooter. You're gonna you're gonna cover. We're gonna come into clear that's leadership if they're not doing that guy ever Cowboys, everybody run out with guns. Bang bang. Bang. Bang bang. You're gonna get forty four shot fifty two shots. Yes. But somebody gotta stand there and say, hey, this might be shooting situation. Tactically less approaching you flanked less. I flunked right. You know, you got the middle. You the only one that's going to be making verbal commands. So everybody can't be talking to the guy you confusing. I mean, surely forty four shots and situation where no bullets coming back at you. You can't tell me that that makes tactical sense. Can't tell me. That's exactly what I'm saying. Other citizens are the that's what I'm saying that wears the tactics. And even when these shootings happened. You gotta understand ricochets. So ricochets are coming back at the cops. They take people shooting, but it's not as your record, the bullies and concrete and is coming back at you that think people are shooting out him and saw a brain this. And that my and nobody says stop hold on. Let's see it's clear. I mean, if you hear ten pops, right? If you have an accomplished your mission to subdue the subject after ten bullets base five. Especially I mean, why doesn't the brain kick as okay, we've shot at him ten times. Not like, let's slow right? Because I don't if I don't see a gun. I don't think there's a gun. Why why I mean like just if you hear forty or fifty shots you've got why not thinking like, oh, this is out of control. Well, you do this. Oh and defensive cops. And I'm not defending these shootings. You you do understand. These very stressful situations most of the chassis even forty four shots. These are happening like five Sanger's forty four shots and five seconds. Yeah. Well, you know to him from YouTube from these these a quick shooter. This not like TV, Dan, you got him. You gotta clear sight on him go. I'm a goal minutes shooters, these shootings are like seconds. What are you carrying thirty? I mean, I used to carry thirty eight as cop but nine millimeter automatic fifteen fifteen in the clip one in the chamber, so they got sixteen automatic. So I can pull once and he no you gotta keep pulling. So. We automate semi automatic. So I gotta pull for each one each one. But now they're trained if I if I'm correct I haven't been in a long time. I think it's three second Burks bang, bang bang, cliff Thang bang clear, but you nice not happening. I can't. Clothing short cops shooting with their eyes closed a lot times because you just know that. But what I'm just saying? You've been stressful situation. A lot of people were not in stressful situation that you were in where you get used to that. Right. When you are on. As the next man who didn't come from that in. He starts fire. Right. He is closing his eyes. You like I'm scared, but I gotta shoot. I don't know. But I would I would bet a dollar to a Donut that their nerves taking over, you know, most of these people they then not Deb born and bred to be cops. But they're not really ready to deal with this. What I call the five seconds of hell, are you ready to deal with that five seconds of hell, which means what that moment when you shoot, you know, my other position I've been going around telling people you shouldn't be a communist you've got punched in the face. If you never been punched in the face, you shouldn't be a cop because you can't just go right to gun. I punched in my face around a book, I got got punked knock me out boom right on the floor and me, and my why we brought him brought them broiler. This is in the late nineties. But guess what we never thought to pull are gonna Neva one before the whole family five people father neighbors coming in Neiva what we? Was doing was like this. I was like yo hold on my gun trying to hit what my left. Hey, we hold our guns. He's home his trying to grab a radio call for help. And we never thought we kinda shot them. Why don't you going? We was because he was trained. We was taking about that. It was just get help pay killers kill him what my fits me. And this guy we're gonna fight on night. I can't wait to get them. Get off the ground kill his guy with my hands. That literally we're gonna fight you punch me the face. Oh now on but it wasn't boom. That's easy. Well, that's for punks. But that's not what they hire you for protecting serve. So what if you get a black guy teeth get knocked out as part of police? Everybody's not gonna go. Okay here. I give up my hands behind my back. And cops can deal with. I would hope everytime. I come goes like this. They got police don't move. What if that guy right there? Start walking to warm. He's what you're to do what you're gonna do. Now my gun. What you what you're gonna do? You. Gotta rub a gun. What you do you even gonna shoot him to say face or he's gonna come over here and take gun out, your what are you going to do? So I tell cops don't pull it out. If you never any center bullet down range don't pull a gun out because it's useless wouldn't gun shoot on kill them, you going to just murder, but you we're talking about one level the game. But I would hope that more officers would be able and willing to deescalate and I see far too little de escalation from police officers. Why can't we have more in? Maybe I get arrested. But can you de escalate the situation seems like so many officers walk in ego out one approve I'm the biggest Cowboys year? I'm the baddest guy here. And now, I got you arrested. Now, I'm in like, you could chill the situation out and get a better result for everybody. Well, I learned in the police academy of Sagredo was my trainer. He's Nassau County cop now, and he told us, and I never forget is easier to escalate into de-escalate. And we was like, what are you talking about a police officer told you that? Yeah. This was my training, and this is nineteen ninety Ninety-two. He told us, and he says you go to a family dispute, you get to the door kicking screaming people, cursing, everything when they open that door. You should be saying excuse me off piggies. I just got here. Somebody called me and told me was going on. Can I help you as opposed to come in? What the hell is going on? You you over here you go over there because they gonna know like it was a prick going in. And that you try to deescalate to be a bad guy. You never gonna get the relationship. But if you start off. Nice and smooth. And now if I have to say, hey, you get against the wall. You'll put the cuffs on him. They're going to at the NFL. Like, you know, what I got? He really was kind of nice, and we kept egging him on. And he had escalate so I tell my wife she's gonna scream and yell and I just go baby. I'm sorry. She doesn't even say sorry about three times. And after the third time, she goes it clicks damn he said he saw I mean, I try to do that with my wife to let her yell. Let her have that moment. You charge right now. Cool. Right. But I don't feel that from the police officers were policing. That's because most of the police are not using utilizing. And that's why it's constant training, constant reinforcement, constant reinforcement. You gotta constantly reinforce them. Every time at the roll call every time, I train it all in a kademi, constant constant constant, you know, with the shooting. Of people out on the street. I remember they put me on a committee. And I said we should put stickers on on the lockers that bind time saves lives. What on the sticker buying time? Buying time saves lives with the shooting. It's like if you constantly put it on the lock every time, they open like a mind time save when they sign out you got to stick by takes take one extra moment. Pull it out. Not to kill you not to put yourself in. Now, some sometimes you gotta go right to you know, you going up boom. But that's such a rare incident you have time like I make gun arrest. Make under recipe playing that me and me and my ponding disarm 'em shot him. But then how'd do you take garner way from somebody? Everybody was close combat. It was close. It's not like I was twenty feet away. So you Gump out what people know between five and seven feet. So you just reached out with your right hand. Yeah. It's got a dob on them in fighting with them to get that gun away. Are are you afraid of getting shot in the moment of going for the gun? You're not thinking about that you so fixated on that gun. You can't. Yeah. Is fixated on you know, facial you looking at that gun diving for that gun you die for the gun. You diverse head new diving for that gun. But once you get shot perhaps in the stomach when you the gun, depending on you know, depending on the angle, but you want to disarm that person. If biting I'm a bite, you kick you put my fingers in your eyeballs, I'm gonna do everything to drop back on. Put a Hickey alienating. Good. I would do everything grabbing groin area. I'm doing everything this guy. This. This guy the gun save your life as opposed to the front pages of newspaper. The next day was the most dangerous that gonna rest you never about the most dangerous moment that you're in. When you were out in the job being shot and story projects Mia awesome. All on a New Year's Eve. Nice kind of funny funny now because New Year's Eve traditionally all cops are called into the priest about eleven thirty because Commissioners, I wanna know shootings there's going to be celebratory shootings. All in able hood heard everybody come back. We've got six feel heroes from eleven thirty to twelve you go eat, and then get out, and we scoop bodies up pretty much. That's what they do. And so this day, we decided on news even go to story project and won't be holy to ever caught. We heard shooting on the Terret lights, bang, bang bang. And we couldn't find a guy. He's stepped out of doping. Big bang. Ran back in. Side. We went back into saw. I was rookie. I'd like a year and a half on and saw a little little female white about five three very feisty. She was like all told you go to your project. You're not supposed to go down at midnight. I was new to the job. And I'm looking at my point like what are you got down to the products at midnight for? Funny stuff. Due officers. See the citizens that they're pleasing as people who they respect or they afraid of them and trying to neutralize and corral them as fast as possible. What you said some early. I was important you dealing with the low of the low pretty much police, you're not really dealing with the high the high people in the community. So some time you could get faded jaded from DC and have these biases. But I always I would always tell cops when you come into precent. Check your attitude at the door. I just had a fight with my wife. I just came to work, and I gotta go to massive incident. I can't just take the man side. But it's hard you. I mean or go beat the guy up because I'm stressed. No. No, no, no. I'm just telling you. So every day, you gotta check yourself. You gotta do this. I was able to do that. I will put my vest on prayer cards. The pre. Because unfortunately, they was all prayer cards from officers that was killed in the line of duty. It was like my angels. I put him in there. And I would say my prayer and go out, and I'm new I don't care what happened on my way to work care. You know, father just whatever happened. I'm checked in because you gotta be locked in. It's like that. No, no. 'cause you can't you can't not bring your day with you to the shift. You can. I mean, you can't I was able to do it. Right. I was unique. I was checking out every day because I wanted to get home to my kids. So I have no of stuff, and it was times that I had to tell the sergeant. I'm not all into that. I I need to go home. It's something on my mind. He said, what's the matter? You need to sit in the pre. So. Yeah. Answer the phone today. So those are listen to that. Because I bet there's a lot of commanders like shut up and get out there. I had good. Boy, what made this is a masculine profession is very mature. We as men or not like, oh, you gotta problem. Sit type like man today. I was going to divorce my partners drove right to the prisoners like boss. I'm not working with him. It was very messy. He I'm not going. He's going to hurt himself or hurt. Somebody we drive and he's crying in the car. He got I'm not working with him. You know what I'm saying? So now it's loving. That's that's not like, I care about awesome. Get him off today. He'll be tomorrow new day. He's like he's going to hurt himself or me get rid of him giving somebody who's not crying apartment was good, Bobby. I love that guy. He was we will watch out for each of those are signs that you gotta see and good leaders should be able to see those sons when you see behavior changes in personnel. Say what's going on man? It's going to need to know about. Are the police in America as effective as they could be I think so really? Yeah. I definitely don't see tremendous room for improvement. Oh, yes. Room for improvement for sure, but without polices. No society. The society is out of control. I'm not saying what we have versus nothing. I'm saying what the policing level that we have versus what we could have. Yes. It's definitely room for improvement, especially and communities of minority communities or high crime community, you go down side high crime communities a white communities the deep deep south so just in these areas because they're not treating them correctly. They're not treating them, right? Is a lot of room for improvement. You know, I remember cops getting in trouble for playing basketball uniform. Why for the life of me, why would a Trump to me? That's the best community police. You can do for Kim. Did you on a football where the kid plan shooting hoops where they why would you? Why would that be in trouble because he took ten minutes off to probably make that kid wanna be come cop? So things are changing. And it takes a while it just don't change overnight. Visit does it not. Perhaps teach the kid the wrong message. If you like, oh, look, here's offers a friendly shoot some hoops that you, but this officer geese who understands you and his black. And it's like, I see my cousin my younger brother in him. But officer Johnson doesn't see you like that. And you think police and Johnson are the same. You're out of your mind. And when you act friendlier opened Johnson now, he's beating your ass. Well, I misunderstand. So I'm gonna tell you now my position as far as even like the racist concern black white, purple green blue. I don't care as long as that cop is coming in and doing the right thing. That's why I want him I community because I could name I can fifty black Hobbs right now who I know you don't even want him come into your house. So you don't want them. I promise you, can you please name them because I need to go that I tell you come into Philby the whole race issue. You know, the point of the question. Oh what I'm. Saying every cop is not going to be me. Because for me. I I was a kid that cops stone against the war. I was a kid chops his rifle into my pockets out of the kid that they had to Billy clubs tonight hitting you know, my friends with them. So I came on with emission saying, hey, I want to improve this job, and I can improve my little space. And when I was command of the second von imprison, the city's seven precent of four hundred people working for me and our top dog. I was the one putting policies in place. I was handling that whole thing you understand what I'm saying. So I was able to work in my little community and changed things and hopefully change attitudes of people and citizens about police what were the policies that you put in place that were most effective in improving the level of policing that the people in that area were experiencing. Oh, and the to command that I did one of the first things I did was drop. Stop question. Frisk a meeting I more question for us. I got beat up. No necessary necessary. Stop. I I got beat a bad by commanders the two three start she. But, but what you know, what I would tell my I'll take I'll take the beat him from them because my defense was in a police department. They believe that there was a connection between the decrease in crime and stop question frisk, and I would go to these commandments with a decrease in crime decreasing stop question frisk, and they'd be like Corey something's going. You're not stopping enough people. And I say chief we have ten less robberies this month three less shootings. But you you're stop questioning you'll down thirty puts into stop question of fresh. And I'm standing looking at these idiots saying you're not getting what is the ultimate goal? Is it me stopping more people or me decrease in crime, and they just get it. But is the police goal really to decrease crime that should be great. But it's not really the goal. Not. When I left is been was numbers numbers. Your summers is making route question frisking. You're not decreasing crime making arrests which is not the same depressing cry. Exactly it's not because I could arrest. I arrest a million people. But now if the crime goes up that argument don't work right off could I could rest one hundred less people and crime goes down. It's like, well if you arrest a hundred of the right people then crime, we'll go down. But. But you know. Targeted policing. What should be happening today? We know who all the criminals are. Yeah. If you had a rapist live on. But I, you know, he raped three girls if the cop stopped him every single day, you probably will have a problem with that. Rape. I got three daughters. We already know what his prime he shot. Three people y'all could stop him every day. But now you stop him. He's college kid. You know, he's got in my cousin. He's just walking down the street. Right. Yeah. What's why are you stop? So so so ending stop and frisk in your area was affective. How how did that improve the policing improved improved a police community relationship? I mean, how would I was like the hero walk into Brownsville issue? I mean, the communities in Germany more likely to talk to you about what's actually going on because you're not throwing their little brother. I will go to community means they was praised me say command that we see a difference cops being more respectful than not stopping people. Like, it was the person I was here before you. And then when I left guess what right back said that was one of the two big change that you made. That fact, what was the other one just bridging a gap between community police community, please walking around the community. Like, I would always have wrote in the book like I will go to barbecue in the community and everybody. Hey command say Turkey Burg on there for me, put some cheesy macaroni and cheese, and I'll be walking with cops black way whatever they've been ill. You're going to eat and I go. Yeah. Look at all these people dying. Look, you see people dying all over the place from the hamper. It wasn't about me always eating hamburgers. Sometime wasn't hoagie. But it was about letting them know, I know better than you for me the person that should be doing our, which is a police officer. You know, I was I was saying how every kissing babies walking ladies across the street carrying back. There was is happy cop. I'm touching people touching touching because I know. No. If I'm getting my ass be two o'clock in the morning, miss Jones is calling on one to help me. But if you've got pricked cop, then nobody likes you gonna be fight for a long time. So you could get that radio, and it might cost you life. So it's always better to try to now, you're not gonna everybody's like you. I will go say hi to people and be punk ass cop. Don't talk to me. You wanted him. I mean, no matter how case in community. You are they still going to see the blue and most of their interactions blue has been negative, right? So you're one of them. But you know, what I'll take it with a grain of salt like a oh, man. Come on, man. I'm different magic. Want wanna say what's going on now menu? Put cops. I don't like. So I know I can't get to Torah. That's cool. But I could get ten more people some already ninety something percent. You know? So you got is giving take you gotta be able to have. Community. Gotta have more officers. You're saying who have a better relationship with the community know, the community know, who's actually committing the crime. So who's actually good kid? Who's maybe running with the wrong group this week knows names and faces of people? Yes. Like when I was a commander. I had list. I created call the top seventeen these will top seventeen violent people that lived inside the succession precent in order to get on that list, you had to shoot somebody or been shot within the last years was seventeen people some of them being involved in two shootings some been shot. Whatever I say they name snap fueled. My dad like malling highs. I say some names that I still remember them. I was kind of anal with my police work, but these seventeen people when you saw them you knew it was a high probability that they was carrying gun. Definitely. So I need you to engage them. You know, talk to them. Follow them, watch them, go around the corner. See what they're doing his. But you need to know. So I would walk up to my cops. Hey, you know, one hundred. If they didn't know they had a problem with me because I had that list over even little inserts they could put him into their books. So every time they open a book they saw him. And I was testing everybody I test my sergeants lieutenants tested, Katherine, do, you know, such and such is if they know we had a problem because now waste of my time. I'm putting this is to save your life. This not just to decrease crime. These violent people these are people that prone to shoot you need to know them if they get a haircut, if they go dreads, whatever they do you need to know what they look. So we don't have a single national police force. It's a localized situation. But what would you like to see the major police forces do differently to provide more effective policing more judicious policing for the citizens wanted to things I would love to send the sand. This for years, we know where the crime is. So you look at twenty years the seventy fifth president easily. York is the most violent prisoners city. Right. He's two years ago. It was the most violent guess it was the most violent today easing most violent. So at what point I mean that crime is lower a lot lower than it was twenty one years ago. But why is it always on the top? Why don't we look at the pockets of the city where there s crime deploy all resources, they're like get rid of the crime? So now, the nice up east side, you take cops away. Like, they wanna stand alone. Leave him on a stand alone plan, you're gonna take resources from take resources if crime takes up now you double back to that. But let's help these people who's afraid to walk into two in the morning, and you you have forty thousand you can't put three thousand cops every single corner every single corner 'cause we got the resource we have forty thousand but you have to take from queens gonna take from San now. But so what take away from all these other presence where cops is Ryan around circle, jerking. All. All day where everybody else is being shot, ro burglarize costs Dolan. You know? That's that's what they need to do for the life of me. I don't it's not rocket science this easy stuff. Everything is mapped. You know, what a crime is take all your resources. It's like narcotics. Right. So I would have not caught there's a whole division. Now Connex will come in my precinct six seven precent on the most violent precincts. But in is in Brooklyn south, but also in bay ridge Brooklyn, they have not caught his cO that, but it's literally no crime there take that kind of out of the given to me. Why are they going over there? Forget the politics because the politics say we have no crime. It can't be justified. But no one wants to take that real chance. But you know, hopefully, cities Adams makes a mayor. He makes me police Commissioner with fix all the problems. Lug with that. Thank you, brother. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. Thanks bye. May Corey for a great in candid interview. And thanks to you for listening to a ratio gives you fuel to power your dreams because you could use your dreams like a rocket ship to blast you into a life. You never imagined. You can make your dreams a reality. At this show can help on Twitter at Torreon on Instagram at Tora show. Please subscribe rate review and tell your friends about the show. Tori shows written by me tour and produced by Chris Colbert entire east Hester with help from kid, and Nicole and our photographer, Chuck, Marcus. We'll be back next Wednesday with more knowledge from amazing folks because the Mayon just can't shut us down.