Taste. Hello. My name is Andre Leon Talley, the host of oak spot cats and today, I am thrilled to have my dear friend, the legendary. And I caught it Mr. Tom Ford on the phone with me from Los Angeles talking about his latest film nocturnal animals, Tom. Thank you for calling it at tedium, but the boarding power. You. I'm in Los Angeles living you the school year. Oh, because your son is going to preschool in Los Angeles is oh, that's great. I needed a year of sun after seventeen years in England. But I'm going to London on. So in London now he can spec today. So good, we take we take turns towards well. That's lovely. So I'm cutting right to the chase girls questions. How did you? Find these incredible women that opened the scene. Those incredible women doing those extraordinary dances in a nude in costumes sort of epaulettes. Imple- casting call. I had a wonderful wonderful background casting. You know, it's not called extra casting anymore. It's called background casting. And I described exactly what I wanted. And I met the most incredible women in those women were so joyful, and so happy and so- Terrific's. It's interesting that hold part of the film because I started it by think do you want me to tell you about it. Yes. Please. Please. I started it because all of the art in the film was created by artist to very very well known who gave us permission to use their work. I hate movies about art where the artists fake, and it has no soul, and it doesn't feel like anything. But that particular piece to open the film that supposedly in Susan's gallery, I had to create so decided to put myself inside the head of fictitious artist that created enough lived in Europe for the last twenty seven years. So I thought okay, I'm a European, and I'm creating a work that says to me what America. Is. And when you think or when you're opinions often think of America, they think of our faucet in her red swimsuit with a perfect teeth and our big care, or they think of Baywatch, I think of sexy, they think of these tanned beautiful people. Okay. We'll the European perspective of America right now. What's happening America might be aging saggy over fed? Oh, good rich too, much and. And that's one of those women are wearing bits and pieces of Americana. However, once I shot them, I fell in love with these women, I found them so beautiful so joyful, so comfortable because what they've done is. They've all of them have let go of what society thinks they should be. And they're very happy with themselves. They looked so happy and in a way that exact opposite of Susan the character miserable. But trying so hard what she thinks society is supposed to be. So it actually sets the film up because those women are liberated in a sense. And I found the very beautiful. So it was a it was interesting. The development of even my own perspective of beauty as as shot that in as I edited it, you know, as you say the main characters eating a a leaf of lettuce for lunch. But these characters these dances in bits of. America and full on nudity. Have let go to the point of excessive that silhouettes almost. And I don't mean it's a very cruel fat shaming way their elephant chine. I thought it was beautiful. They're beautiful Jenny Saville painting. You know, they're just beautiful beautiful the different, you know. It's funny. It challenges our notions of beauty, and we we have to realize that our our notions of beauty or are something that our culture, you know, we're conditioned to think things are beautiful. But if we look things around us that we think maybe are not so beautiful that I can become incredibly beautiful and those women that their souls were beautiful, and I had so much fun shooting that because I was on the other side of the camera dancing for them. I was just saying copy me and some of them hadn't seen goriest once and in. In Sunset Boulevard. But at the end, I said, okay, I want your I'm ready for close up Mr. demille, and I sort of acted that out for them while we were shooting, and they were on the other side of the camera doing the same thing. It was so much fun. We are here with Tom for talking about his latest fill his second Phil turtle animals, which I think was greatly received. A film festival was not was it. Facing the jury won the grand jury prize. So we have that to look forward to in America. I think you kinda conveyed this absurd beauty because it's a kind of you that people do sometimes comfortable looking at was very very briefly done. Now. Let me ask you do you find do your direct women differently than you direct men? I don't at all. I think that I'm I'm good with actors. I think I understand the process. I think that with great actors you need to give them space to perform. They all want to give you the best performance they can possibly do. And I think I'm very good with actors, but I direct men in the same way that I direct women and I care about the beauty in both. I'm old fashioned believe movie stars should be more beautiful than everyone else. I think that you know, we have enough reality. So enhanced reality is is like, and I'm actually learning about my own style. Now that I have to films to look at and realizing. Oh, yeah. This is my style's filmmaker because. Do it in. What are you know, you do things intuitively? Sometimes if someone says, what is your style? You don't know what it is? Because you just react intuitively. Now, I can look at the two films and see certain similarities and choices I made. And I realize I actually like things that are quite framed or set up or you know, -ality I love how you used the polish stainless steel recessed gate to your whole as a. I have a memory. I have a great memory driving my car by. I pull up to that gate. It does that. And I put my hand because it just blinds me. But you know, when you're writing a screenplay or you're writing anything, you take bits and pieces of your own life. I mean, so much of that you, you know, and then I ran upstairs, and I thought okay, that's a great way to open. It around stairs. I wrote that down to her stainless steel gate, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and bits and pieces of your own life work their way into all the characters and into the store. This is a great segue. Do you start with a full on storyboards from beginning to end? Organic because because the two films that I've made I've written myself. I write them in story board. Meaning I'm visualizing the shot as I'm writing. And I even write it into the script. You know, our camera pushes in, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, I'm writing it as I go. Then what I do is. I sit down with the the DP on the film, and I go shot by shot and we make shot list. So I don't actually have to draw it up. The only thing that we did have drawn up. Now, by the way, it's all done on computer was the chase scene because quite technical to get the stunt men to be in the cars at the right place into crash here and to do that and figure out our cameras, and whether we were swinging the cameras off of a side arm, whether we you know, how we were gonna shoot it and that had to be story boarded, but the rest of it. I I and then when you get onset you also have to keep an open mind because you have to look through that lens. And. Yep. Say okay. This is not a good shot. We that's moved the camera where we're going to put it. How are we going to do it? So you have to keep the pressure. I while you shooting. Yes. I felt that. Had I felt fear in the great chase scene with two cars crashing into each other with the family, and I really edge of my seat. I notice what you wanted to convey. And what he's trying to convey is because of course, the inner story is his message to her saying, this is what you did to me. This is how you made me feel so that visceral feeling of loss, and and fear and upset and devastation is what she clearly made him hill. Like when she left him. That's what he's trying to say to her. This is how you made me feel so yes fear is is part of it at the beginning. But it also just loss and disbelief disbelief in this dog dog Texas highway, you know, the stock middle of the line. This median line yellow line in the middle of the way and the doctor's not going not knowing where they're going with end up. They don't know where they will end up. The you don't know what they're gonna die raped choke give it away. This story, by the way, remember fictitious story written by him. And then it is being we're seeing it to her is. So it is not necessarily to always meant to always be completely real it isn't melodrama factors shot where she walks into her hallway, and she looks at a beautiful photograph that hangs in my house by an artist Richard MS wreck, and it's one man pointing gun at the other and they're in a field of dried grass, so when she magin his death. It's the exact same field replicated it and he dies. There are lots of little things like that if you detail carefully that, you know, her her perspective of it is what we're really seeing. So was the actual highway in Texas was it in Los Angeles outside of Los Angeles. We shot everything in California healthily. But you know, it does have the sense of the dry arid landscapes of Texas where you grew up. You know, does it's it actually looks just like in part of of California. Where we shot. Remember, California is a desert. It's just that Los Angeles tests are it's just been watered for a hundred years. Well, I think that that was very brilliant moment with the cars just going down the road. And then he ends up in a desert and the next one he wakes up at it. Does it he's running away from the the Salem and all of that, it's brilliant? Now, let me ask you the actor who sits the new on the front porch make it with Aaron Keller Johnson who is a big tackler. Actor Coursey is Tom. Yeah. But you know, some actors you cast and and some actors exceed your expectations, and he just exceeded my expectations. He was brilliant onset. He was terrific was the direct very very easy because he was incredibly professional incredibly serious. He's a friend. He's married to Sam Taylor Johnson. Who's been a friend for twenty years, and I was a little hesitant to cast of friends, but have to say he was he was incredible to give anything away. But was he eases to direct in that scene where you had to have? Absolutely. He was completely ready prepared hook you. Hook you. We hear talking to Tom Ford. Conic film director got the jury price of Venice film festival and a great designer. So Tom about films who do you think is one of the greatest inspiration in terms of your work? One of the great directors that you love well in terms of a film like this. I have to say offered cock Q break clockwork, orange, Brian depalma who also liked very sort of slick polish artifice. Yes. But that's the show. I would have to say one of my favorite all time. Directors would be George Cooper. And I know you're working up to a question of my favorite film. Mater now. Well, that's a hard one. I had to really think about that. Because I like so many films. It's almost I mean, it is impossible to say what you fill but one that is one of my favorites. Impossibly my favorite is a film called dinner date from nineteen thirty three Q. And the thing that I love about it is that it is so modern it is absolutely completely modern. It has not dated at all. Except of course in today's world except for people some people on. You know, people don't talk quite that way, any more most people don't have such elegant dinner parties. But the things that are happening the young daughter who's having the affair with eighty. Himself in the middle of the film. And you know, it's a comedy drama. That's and it doesn't necessarily have a happy ending it just stops. They go into dinner. That's very modern everything, you know. I think in that period. It was rare that you didn't tie up with a neat little bow that you had laughs, you had tears. You had that's life. Life is happy. It's sad. It's up. It's down it only stops where we stop the story in a happy ending is only if you stop the story at a happy moment because VO costumes of Jean Harlow in film. Well, she's wonderful. She was an incredible actor. Twenty seven. Good, Lionel Barrymore, John Barrymore, Billie Burke. Is that incredible lady Louis Tressler? It's her name the la- redress. I mean the gestures in face of her face only, which is amazing. It's incredible. I after say I watched that movie probably once a month. A lot of old movies. Like that. I watched the women I think I was. Watching hundreds of death, George George gluco with the great great. Great. Great. Great. And he was especially great with women. Yes. No. Do you like Antonioni? I love it. On course. Of course. And I mean Antonio incredible blowups incredible movie. Wonderful, but Tony was great Europeans. It's interesting. Because of course, for example, spender, I mean built, you know, Bill collections around fos. Don dark to documents, but visually quite incredible. And I it's funny because occasionally I run into people in Los Angeles who say, oh, my God, you know, I was talking to so and so's in the fashion business, and they know so much about film, and I explained, of course, we know about fellers because we're inspired and every season we have to new collection, and we have such a sense of film history because visually we've gone over all these films in at some point. They've inspired our collections walls are distilled with images of fell. Yes. Yes. I think we probably have a greater understanding film and film history than most people realize realize, no one of my favorite films is a sweet bird of youth Geraldine page. There is no other leading page in those or Kelly dresses as prince's cost plus the broken down. Actress about to have a comeback though. She has a comeback is that what favorite sweet bird of you. It's a very good film say it's one of your favorite. It's my face. Do you like it's just not one of the ones I just watch over Jobe page as a basic. As an actress navy as toys attic, I mean, Jodi page and Wendy, Hiller toys, an addict Dean, Martin just amazing Tennessee sort of film. I think I'm not sure. Toys in the attic. Things happen in that field. Like the way things happening tonal animals thinking about I'll have to rewatch toys, please. We watch toys attic, it's very very beautiful film extraordinary film. Now, we like we like to do love you. Let me ask you, do you. Absolutely love the seventies. Is this your favorite period for everything? You know? I think that well first of all, yes. Chinatowns great movie too. By the way, we're talking about. That is true. That is true. Amazing. Amazing amazing. But I think that everyone is a victim is the wrong thing, but heavily influenced by the era in which they grew up, and they I discovered beauty or music or art, and I was born more sex or sex. But I was born in the early sixties. I grew up in the seventies. So for me that era, I think, you know, it's kind of permanently imprinted in my heart. Dr let's say and by the way, the seventies were very much all about the thirties. Thanks to our friend, Mr Solana that. Very good. This seventies were about the thirties. And by the way, if I grew up in the nineteen thirties. So he entered our money that thirties and the forties, which are also very much about their work. Alway Nikola scares always going to be about the eighties. So I think people are very much influenced by their period. If I were to choose a period out of you know, any period, I could live in I would have chosen thirties, which for me is one of the most beautiful elegant periods ever. And so many citing things happen. I mean, I love where we are. Now, very happy living today's world if I were going to pick another period other than medical care because of course, if you got sick, then you just dot. Harlow like the manners like the politeness like the clothes. I like still there's a leftover formality from the previous century. But it's modern we have cars we have planes. We have telephones sleek cars, you have sleek apartments you have hit. Happening with design and architecture, you know, twenties becoming modern and machine age. And so I think was a beautiful beautiful period. At least looking back at it. But you did not have fifty four in the thirties. No. And I don't think people's teeth. Probably looked as good as they do today. Well, we hear what's hope for change the lanes of bit and go into faster it would aids you realize that you wanted to be was going to be a great faster designer. What did you realize? Thank you for the word grave. Yes. Great great. I didn't honestly realize that. This sounds very silly. And this is a little bit of a silly story. I was studying architecture Parsons, and it was probably nineteen eighty four eighty five and I had gone on a trip oddly to Moscow, and I think we might have even been in Leningrad, which was then called it was called grad now called Saint Peter's. And I I gotten sick on something, which is very rare, and I stayed in that night, and I had been quite depressed because I was close to graduating degree in undergraduate architecture, and it just didn't feel right. And I realized that I always tried to work some sort of fashion into my projects that I would take more care dressing, the people in the models of the house. I was in designing that house, and I just all of a sudden it was literally like piffle, and I thought well, of course, I should be fashion designer I absolutely should be a fashion designer. It was a terrific revelation. So you know, I don't like to be second best. So I started down that path and determined to succeed did succeed, and you are succeeding. Now was your projects a success to season with show now by now by Foale? I noted all stores have the fall clothes in the windows has it works which day. Marshal's standpoint is absolutely worked. We saw spike in sales, which has continued. And so I plan on continuing to do it. I think, you know, the reaction I think in New York in the room and reviews were were were strong. What's interesting about it? I had one reviewer who was very positive first of all almost all of them were positive, but very positive. But then she said perhaps the clothes were a bit tame for Ford. Now, what's going to happen is close are going to become more tame, they are going to go back to an era when women sat in the audience and imagine no I want that I want to order that. No, I can wear that. Because you no longer designing aditorial because there is no at a total for the customer, and you want them to go into the store and buy. So the close work, I think very much me or what become known for my taste. But yes, they were wearable clothes that. The woman in that audience. I wanted them to say I would look good in that I want that. I'm going to go by that. And it's very different because often when you're putting together a collection you say, oh, we've only might sell three or four this. But it's gonna look great on the pages of hope because it's colorful pop off the page, and it's going to work with, you know, they're shooting for bohemian, whatever whatever you thinking about aditorial at the same time when you're designing season out. Whereas when you designing for the season where people are going to see it and buy it or even click and buy it thinking about sales. You felt very good you show that night in New York in September in the four seasons. You felt very good about the success of the whole thing. The way. Good looks windows in Los Angeles. I see the windows medicine avenue. But I did see them in Los Angeles in LA. They looked great. But I particularly love the boots. I love a person that makes a provocation of shoe and you're wearing a boot. And really it's kind of absurd thing to have the he'll out exposing the boot on shades, Shanghai, it prosciutto what inspired that great boot. That was shown. Well, we pur- star spur started working on all those belt, and I had those belt flying around. And I was struggling struggling struggling God. What is the shoe? What is she what is the shoot? Which is for me one of the most important, that's every collection. And I always love that. He'll did that Hillary death Ford for a love that. He'll so I actually pulled out a shoot that I had done my own company about five years ago. And I just took all those belts relying around just wrap them around and strapped it up and cut them up and down and put it on the model's leg at first I had to put her foot in a leather glove because I didn't have the rest of the things so cut the glove off. An old long evening glove lying in the in the sample room, and slip that down in piece it all together with bunch of tape and thought, okay. This is great love this and took pictures and send it to the factory, and and send someone to the factory to put it together and bring it back, and that's how I ended up without shape. So tall for giving us a great process. A secretive process of a boot designed glove tape at boot tape and a leather glove. I think you have to you have to do on the foot. You have to do it on the girl you have to do it with the clothes. You just picked things up you cut them. Sometimes I look around my office. Like right in front of me is sitting, you know, a pen holder made it of dark abalone, and you know, that could turn into a shoe heel. If i'm. Yeah. You can turn into evening clutch or something it could absolutely turn into an evening class. Yes. Just look around and keep your eyes. That's beautiful Tom you had the most beautiful black coat for. And it had gold us reminded me of the diamond dust paintings of Mr. hall in your home cheer her once in LA, but I really have those diamond dust paintings of two. Yeah. And so was printed with gold actual goal. So it was a coat and then printed with gold. Well, I actually thought that it was goal us to speak on it looks like it was shimmering on there. On over printed. They just put the for down, and they just overprint with gold gold just printed on the for. Wow. So let me ask you when you have these wonderful fashion shows the presentations, you always fall back on superstars from the past. Carolyn Murphy, Qadhafi, all of these girls. I mean, had the most beautiful top minerals and defer the skirt was slim pencil skirt that looked like it had ostrich and sparkle the minerals top sparkle the contrast, and then calorific comes on this gorgeous black, no Valetta, gorgeous black velvet velvet. Yes. With the big. Big rapper jewels attached to the bag right now. Why did you feel that these girls are still very viable incredible today on the runway lia's younger than the other two? But these women are in their forties. They have children I left that. I love an adult woman. And I'm not gonna say that. I don't love really beautiful twenty year old. Of course, they are physical perfection their brand new the fresh. They're like a beautiful young pony. There's a beauty to you. I think all of us are no matter what. But I also love an adult. There's something different that happens with all that experience in the way, you carry yourself the way you walk. And you know, I think adults are great on the runway is very read. We see the very rare that we see adults who very well your show I show. I I show beyond say, Lauren Hutton Marley. Berenson these are women who by the way have taken care of themselves. Who are still you know in great shape. They also have great minds. They're doing things. It's I think that's exciting. When you see, you know, woman of of any age who's who's caught with one of your best sales. Will you ever have like the first show in your medicine evidence stalk where you announced the the models and you had everybody be from build say. To learn Hutton to lease is two bottles of that moment. Who Leah who were the great man Lia had actually a quite a lot of up and coming young girl girl to that. But you had the great mix of the great the great superstars. Oh, yes. Super horses, the superheroes. You will have. I'm sure will at some point point. Okay. No. I I believe in kind of feeling the season and changing a little bit each season. Based on what kind of mood were all in culturally, and what kind of mood we are in in fashion. And whether we're tired of certain things or so Cal probably show and quite a few different ways. We in the mood for Tom Ford today Vokes podcast. We're happy to have rare for him to sit down for talk a conversation. Like this Mr. Tom I'd like to ask you one question. What do you think? The worst thing it fascinates today, decorated nails nudity. The worst thing is when you see, unfortunately, quite insecure people completely decked out in a look from the runway head to toe because you can't see any of their own character or personality coming through. And it actually usually makes me sad because I feel I want to go over and talk to those people make sure they're okay because they don't have a strong sense of identity in their insecure. Not that makes me sad. What makes me excited as when I see a piece of my clothing, strong, powerful potent piece, that's put together by a woman or man who you know, has a good sense of self, and they really take that and make it their own. That's a little sad to me about fashion today. What is your favorite accomplice fast collection? Either it's Gucci Tom for it. Or what is your favorite piece that you've ever designed can you quickly after say the seller on Chinese collection that I did right at the end of my. Show seller. Still those pieces are to me incredibly beautiful the one that I did that impacted fashion and my career the most was a show that I did I think in nineteen ninety five or six with white dresses at Gucci Gucci. And the first one with velvet, hip huggers was strong in that one launched my career. But the one that was my favorite from that period where these beautiful long, simple, white dresses, cutouts and and metal on a hip, and I'm still playing with that. I did you know something's not at all similar. But yet you could tell by the same person in this collection. You know, you get to give the world you taste once. Yes. Once you give the world, you taste? It's there, and you continue working on that developing that, but but that is your taste, and I gave the world might taste in the nineties, and it hasn't changed. It's transformed as we were now living. But it's involved in our, you know, the person dress has evolved in its maybe in some ways grown up a bit. But you know, you give the world who taste once it's product. I love each I love, you know, any pick any designer that has a strong point of view their work. And you see a continuous theme hand, you know, that it's the same person designed. Yes, now, I do remember that Chinese clicks seller on what am I friends bought? An extraordinary still souls coat in leopard that was saved almost it had a Goethe shape. Do you remember that of course, a leopard coat? It was very expensive at Neiman, Marcus. But expensive now too. I just paid ninety thousand dollars for one of those dresses because I'm in the process of building. Yeah. My own archives. And so I'm buying clothes back. It's. Very explicit very worth it. Now. What advice would you give to an intern of do you have in terms? What is the best vice give to a young caught work hard? Do whatever it takes sweep the floor pick up pins. Never say, no bequeath ba- fast. You not gonna just jump in designing a collection. You've got to be around. It. You've got to pick up. You. Gotta learn I think people have lost that a little bit today. They expect to come in out of school and go right to the top. And that's not what it's like, you know, I hear that. Sometimes complaining, oh, I'm going out to get his lunch and doing this on doing that not even necessarily about me, maybe someone else in the studio, and, you know, say look my job, I got lunch, and I babysit dogs though. We can't that's just life. So get over it. No, you have to work hard work, hard, work hard. So that we have way to take away is Tom Ford's this work hard to young interns. Now, would you live to pilot own plane, John Travolta, no, I don't want my own plane. I didn't want my plane. I think. You can rent a plane if you need a plane, but there's an old adage that you should always rent Inaba. Floats. One of those rules, but the other two I'm going to continue to the phone wonderful wonderful now, listen what I'm going to say what where do you feel Fania? No, not disasters. No, snakes, spiders will. I don't like snakes very much, but we have wonderful make wonderful. Knicks usually just shoot them. Shoot them. What do you do? Tail off and Richard keeps a bowl on his desk where we throw all the rattlesnake tales. Oh, lovely. That's very unique with Tom for a game revealing wonderful things mostly. I'm I'm very much. Yes, important thing is when you shoot them you've got to remember to put on your blouses because you know, shooting them with a shotgun. In the gravel flies back in your face. Glasses on get you're gonna go out and shoot realm. But it's not a reality. I just have a cousin North Carolina who tells me his tractor and shoots to the copperheads. He takes a gun and shoots. But I. Prisoners. You don't want them around the house rattlesnakes? But I don't want them around, of course. But then I say what do you do after what he says? I just pick them up and drove over the woods dead. You know, a bird elite. No, right. Okay. Going to waste. All right now. What did you do in your last birthday? What what was your last birthday? Like birthday was in Los Angeles, August twenty seven I don't love birthday. So I stayed home with Richard jock my mother. My sister came over. We all Keiko is very quiet family celebration. Good good good. Good Twitter, by the way. My mother lives in Los Angeles. Wonderful and my sister. That's great. So you have a family. That's really cool. I do jackets to see these few said. So he yeah. We have a good family disciplined person. I'd so admire that, so what do you eat for breakfast and lunch for breakfast this morning? I had some raisin brand. But I got up to thirty. I worked out. I just get on a treadmill usually stretching exercise than I had some raising Brown and a gigantic coffee to Beth got Jack up drinking gigantic iced coffee right now for lunch. Sushi pretty much every day for dinner, officiant vegetables, and some sort. And in between that by the way. I'll eat a doughnut or two or. A couple of cheap candy bars. Absolutely. Create based diet, but then a little bit of Joe. Okay. We're gonna go to Woodward's, and you try to answer it when word if you can't. Oh my God. One word is really hard for me to talk. All right glamour. It's funny. Somebody asked me about that word one word. So I'll have to come back to that the other day, and it's worth that. I don't use very much. So I'll just say, gene, Tierney sexy. Oh, that's a hard one. Do these in one word a sentence? A sentence. Sexy. No someone who's comfortable with themselves. Good good Jagua, the animal, not the car. But that e type from the sixties one of those beautiful cars ever can't. We talk about that. Instead. Yes. Yes. Okay. Talk about that a black Jaguar you like the most beautiful cars, ever invented. It's so damned tiny though. And of course, the mechanics aren't what they are today. But it's so beautiful. Okay. I think it has to be actually my favorite car at the entire world seats, cotton linen. I don't like Lenin sheets. They they make your elbows red, scratchy. I don't understand Lennon sheets at all. Okay. Elephants. Something I just think about all the time on day. I have no idea L offense. I don't think about Alvis. There's a story. I reject about a purple elephant. I guess maybe that's the purple elephant ball the story above other Fritz? Well, there is that story about purple elephant come to stay vulgar. Vulgarity? Wow. Arrogance. I think is great. That's great tightness as time. This the strangest from Tennessee kindness is something we all should have. And something I always try to have. I think empathy is is kindness for me. I mean, you have to empathize with people to be truly kind Betty true. Sheikh love. Thin longed. What were just giving us through? I love Betty ca true. That's hard hard breath. Hard that is brilliant golf goal. Golfo eight used to have such good clothes. When I was young. And then I was going to play golf again about ten years ago. And I went out to buy, you know, new golf shoes and everything I was just was appalled at what all looks like now. Yeah. Golf while golfing? A while. I think it's a great sport, actually, especially good older because you can walk. You can talk and think I mean when I was young I used to walk talk thinking drink, but now I don't drink anymore. Bianca Jagger, white and suit Beja marvelous. Marvelous buoy bays soup. Boulia is, yuck. I hate to rebrand the great tooth polish. Jeff koons. Balloon dog. Thank you lovely. That was a wonderful wonderful. This is fascinating with Tom for it. And it's the most fascinating conversation of having a longtime invokes podcast. I'm realtime that you call today. Thank you so much a few final questions, yet dream fashion or do you dream scenes? Do you dream fashion end things? Do you go to? I often just have nightmares. Hits hits sort of you know, because even when it's something insignificant in my dreams they turned into nightmares. Now, my last question is, and I thank you for this wonderful conversation. What do you hope for your son, Jack when he becomes eighteen? That I just Mabel to help him fulfill his destiny, I have no preconceived notion as to what Jack should be do. We all have our undetonated, and I certainly don't want to live vicariously through him. So as all I hope is that he's happy and that he is fulfilling his destiny, whatever that destiny might be is he taking lessons as ease for. And of course, now, he swims and he plays tennis and the play soccer, and he's very sporty. And yeah, he takes our class and a little French class and teach all this things at school. And it's it's good. So what is the rest of your day? Like, what are you gonna do day to day on a Friday? Don't worry. I have plenty of work to do. I talking to you is like talking to George Kuku. I would've imagined that. I would have a conversation with Mr. George Kuka. It would run like this. I thank you for the beautiful work. You do always. And it's a great privilege and president talk to you for vote podcasts. Thank you. Thank you. Have a great day, Tom. Thanks caller. Okay. Bye. Bye. The vote podcast is for Duchesne of vogue magazine recorded here at one World Trade Center and produced by Nagaa Hammadi, and he'll be Couric sound engineering by David Lauren's and hosted by me.