Sept. 29 Rep. Adam Schiff, Rep. Steve Scalise, Fmr. Amb Michael McFaul, and Irans Foreign Minister Javad Zarif


In this Sunday the impeachment debate trail of his oath of office betrayal of our national security and betrayal of the Integrity Speaker Nancy Pelosi announces a formal impeachment inquiry as details emerge from a whistleblower about president trump's July phone call with Ukraine's president. It's hard to imagine the more serious of allegations than those contained in the complaint the president saying I would like you to do us a favor though and urging an investigation of Joe Biden didn't as he withheld military. It's another witch hunt here. We go again. Democrats go on the attack. It's very serious. Conduct it undermines the national security sits devastating most Republicans defend the present from my point of view to impeach any president over a phone call like this could insane totally appropriate up nothing that but some cracks emerge I wanNA say the president. This is not okay it isn't that conversation is not okay my guest this morning Adam Schiff chairman of the House Intelligence Committee the number two house Republican Steve Scalise and the former US ambassador to Russia Michael mcfaul plus the politics of impeachment peril for the president and for Joe Biden he will stop at nothing to hold onto power does bein emerge damage or as a more sympathetic figure joining me for inside an analysis Arya Michel Sin or White House correspondent for PBS News Hour Mark Lepage chief national correspondent for The New York Times magazine Presidential Historian Doris Kearns Goodwin and Hugh Hewitt Post on the Salem Radio Network welcome welcome to Sunday and a special edition of meet the press from NBC News in Washington the longest running show in television history. It is a special edition of meet the Chuck Todd Good Sunday morning for anyone on either side of the red blue divide who was frustrated by the pace of the investigation negation ten days in September provided a staggering turn of events. It was just last week. The Washington Post broke the whistle blower story about President Trump's phone call with Ukraine's president immediately support among House Democrats for impeachment proceedings exploded into a majority of the house leaving Nancy Pelosi no choice but to do a progressives had demanded handed and she had resisted for so long announce a formal impeachment inquiry rather than a drip drip. There's been a gusher of bad news for the president since then and it's important to note that Republicans have avoided pushing back on the substance of the whistle blowers charges. There's a lot we don't know at this point. We don't know all the details that could emerge in an impeachment in case against President Trump. We don't know with any certainty that Republicans will rally around Mr trump as they did so comfortably the last time and we don't know whether Mr Trump's faceless charges about Joe Biden and Ukraine we'll make by name more sympathetic or tarnish him to the benefit of another Democratic candidate like Elizabeth Warren but there is something that both sides think they do know that this new crisis is easier to understand and presents a greater threat to the president than the Muller Investigation ever forget we cannot ignore our oath of office to protect and defend the Constitution House Speaker Nancy Pelosi announcing a formal impeachment inquiry after months of resistance following the revelation that the president crusher Ukraine's president to investigate political opponent Joe Biden while withholding military aid it is hard to imagine a more fundamental of use of that office the witch hunt here we go again on Wednesday. The White House released detailed notes from that July twenty-fifth call with Ukraine's president after presidents Alinsky expressed his desire for more military equipment including Javelin anti-tank missiles president trump responded. I would like you to do us a favor though asking Ukraine to investigate the two thousand sixteen election and unfounded conspiracies about Joe Biden and his son presents alinsky raises the question of defensive aid and within minutes the President United States is asking him to investigate Joe Biden. You will stop at nothing and to hold onto power. It's not surprising that I've become the object of his attention on Thursday another bombshell the CIA whistleblower complaint made public detailing and nine pages allegations that the president is using the power of his office to solicit interference from a foreign country in the twenty twenty twenty. US election describing months of contacts between the president's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani whom the whistle blower names more than thirty times and Ukrainian officials and alleging that White House officials attempted to lock down the record of the call hiding it in a highly classified computer system now. There's a cover the cover up by late Friday. How Democrats had already subpoenaed Secretary of State Mike Pompeo for documents and scheduled depositions with five State Department officials named aimed in the whistleblower complaint you willing to testify in front of Congress well? There's a lot of problems with that. I mean would I like to testify until my story sure. There are things that that I can't testify to because I'm a warrior inside the West Wing. There is rising anxiety unease and concern most Republicans in Congress have defended the president when I think of whistleblower blur complaints I think of somebody who saw something that was long and came forward to say so this is hearsay information but small cracks cracks are already emerging. I did read the transcript it remains troubling in the extreme Republicans ought not to be rushing to circle the wagons and say there's. There's no there there when there's obviously lots that's very troubling there and even some trump allies are beginning to question. Giuliani's role is wild as large hair. He's a smart guy I but he's he's he's a free range chicken. I mean he just kind of gets on out there and joining me now from Greenville South Carolina's the Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee the man. It's likely leading most of this investigation Democrat Adam Schiff of California congressman. Welcome back to meet the press. Thank you great with you. let me start with the whistle blowers complaint it. Does I feel as if it is your roadmap. I think you've said it's the roadmap for the investigation. How much of your investigation is about the specifics of what the president did ahead with the aid with Ukraine with Rudy Giuliani and how much of your investigation is about the attempt to keep that from you well? I think really the the gravity of the offence here is the president using the power of his office to coerce a foreign nation into helping his presidential campaign to once again interfere appear in our election and at the same time withholding foreign aid that country so desperately needs to fight off who the Russians that to me is the the most serious constellation of issues and I know that many people have suggested and it may have been true in the past that the cover up is the bigger crime. Sometimes the cover up is the easier crime to improve but here yes the cover up is very serious but I don't WanNa lose sight of that fundamental breach of the presence oath of office the duty to defend our country country our Constitution and here the president is once again not just inviting but coercing a four nation to get involved to try to help him and yet another the presidential election so to me. That's the most serious set of offenses in order to get the full picture. You're going to have to get the testimony of apparently Komo quite a few White House officials there unnamed in the whistle blower report Do you expect to end up fighting over things like executive privilege and attorney client privilege to the point that you may not get all the facts. I have to expect that they're going to fight US tooth and nail but we're going to start. We have the hearing on Friday for example. closed session with the Inspector General. There's a second time we're bringing you. Bring him in now that we have the whistleblower complaint the plane to go through what steps that he took to corroborate the information that complaint what witnesses that he spoke with so that we can follow up with those those witnesses ourselves will the White House fight us on this. I have to imagine they're going to fight tooth and nail and yet even as they do the more that they fight to try why do prevent and obstruct the lawful functions of Congress the more they're going to make a case for impeachment on obstruction of Justice of Congress of you've got the Roy. Is that why you put that in your release that basically you're going to take any attempts at preventing somebody from testifying before your committee that you believe legitimately has some information to shed light on what happened you will treat that as an obstruction of justice we will treat that as evidence insist obstruction of justice as evidence of obstructing the lawful functions of Congress because the president can't have it both ways he can't both prevent us from getting evidence us on these serious underlying crimes who are potential crimes this serious breach of his oath of office and at the same time obstruct or our investigation so even as he tries to weaken our ability to get facts on one. He's going to strengthen the facts on the other. You know the whistle blower yet I don't have you met them. I don't know the no okay no do you windy you expect first of all do you expect the whistle blower to testify and if so when yes and I hope very soon excuse me and I hope very soon all that needs to be done at this point is it's to make sure that the attorneys that represent the whistle blower get the clearances that they need to be able to accompany the whistle blower testimony and that we figure out the list logistics to make sure that we protect the identity of the whistleblower. That's our paramount concern here. This whistleblowers done obviously a cardinal service the country by exposing thing wrongdoing of the most serious kind a breach of the president's duty the country that endangers our security and he's got to be worried about his own security right right now with the president issuing threats like the other day your committee has seen material end up in the White House before and up with the president's team before. Are you confident that your committee can protect the identity everybody in your committee on both sides of the out can protect the identity of this whistleblower from from the ire of the president well. I'm certainly GonNa do everything humanly possible is chair to make sure that that's what happens and yes we have been concerned for some time about back channels between are now minority and the White House and fact the maybe in front channels not just back channels. This is serious business here. The president has suggested that people like this whistleblower should be treated the way that we used to treat spies and traitors and we used to execute spies and traders. There's no messing around here and what's more we WANNA protect this whistle blower but we also Wanna courage others that are aware aware of this wrongdoing or other wrongdoing okay to come forward and that's a vital interest of ours as well. There are three phone calls to phone calls in one meeting reading that the president is had with Vladimir Putin. Actually all of them have taken place since the election of the Ukrainian President Jelenski a phone call a May third the meeting on June twenty eighth and a phone call on July thirty first six which by the way six days after the Zilenski phone call in question. Do you think you'll ever know the contents of that commerce of any of those conversations. I certainly hope that we could find out again. The paramount need here is to protect the national security than I'd states and see whether in the conversations with other world leaders ended particular with Putin that the president was also undermining our security in a way that he thought would personally benefit his campaign. If those conversations with Putin or with other world leaders are sequestered in that that same electronic file that is meant for covert action not meant for this if there's an effort to hide those and cover those up yes. We're determined to find out if you're trying to be a speedy with this investigation while also being thorough. Is there a point where you just have have to you have to wrap things up. You have to be done with whatever you can investigate by a date certain I keep hearing the word Thanksgiving thrown around is that is that the timetable all the public should expect we haven't set a timetable except that we want to do this as urgently as possible we also recognize though the gravity of this situation relation and that is gonNA take some time to get the full facts and be able to flesh them out chuck. I will say this having worked on investigations as a prosecutor Peter Before I was in Congress there is an act natural rhythm to investigation and you get to way points where the next increment of evidence you're going to get may take quite a bit of time and we'll get to those way points. We're GONNA have to make a decision. Do we need to have a consensus now about where we are and what this means that whether we need to travel down the road of articles articles of impeachment or do we have time to do more work. I'm curious what you think of the argument that says no matter where you are an especially if you are there you think the president should me thrown out of office that because we're so close to November twenty twenty that the election is the better place for that to happen. What do you say to those making that argument? You Know Chuck. I was making that argument myself until these facts came to light that this is an extraordinary remedy should only be using extraordinary circumstances but hear what the president has done is such such an egregious character that there's a real risk in not moving forward with impeachment and I think when you look at the fact that the president engaged in this conduct with presidents Alinsky a corrupt on the president's part Linski part the day after the Muller hearing and the lesson appears to have received is that he can do whatever he wants. He can violate his oath of office. He can refuse to defend our constitution. He invite further foreign interference events in our affairs he can try to cover up and they'll be no consequence no accountability and that is simply too dangerous to be left that way and so Oh yes I certainly think that the gravity of the situation demands that we move forward with the inquiry okay on and and we'll have to determine with that also means return of articles we expecting to see Rudy Giuliani testify. I don't want to commit myself to that. At this point. We certainly need to do a lot work to find out what Giuliani has been doing in Ukraine and appears from that conversation that Ukraine president understood what was going to be asked of him on that call and that very likely was the result of work that Rudy Giuliani and some of his minions. We're doing in Ukraine so we're going to need to get to the bottom of it whether it will be productive to bring him in. We'll make make that decision down the Road Adam Schiff the man. That's going to be charged with leading most of this investigation on the House Intelligence Committee. Thanks for coming on in abuse much appreciate it. Thanks Jack Joining we now from Kenner Louisiana is the number two Republican in the house. Steve scalise of Louisiana Congressman scalise welcome back to meet the Presser Chuck. It'll be back with you Doodoo you do an accident on email. We know some talking points that the White House has sent over to House Republicans including the defense that they have is saying there was no quid pro quo in the phone call that that in itself should be enough to stave off of impeachment but I am curious. When you hear the phrase? I want you to do us a favor though and you know again I think the president of Ukraine has the Internet so we knew that aid was frozen. It's how do you interpret it. If it's not a quid quit pro quo. How do you interpret it? I needed to do as a favor though well first of all chuck if you read that sentence what the president is talking about is crowd strike he's talking talking about. The two thousand sixteen is that made with our election better president trump. President trump is trying to look into the interference by Russia so it doesn't happen again and I thought you would want to be concerned about making sure that doesn't happen again. Let me ask you what he's talking about. Intelligence Joe Biden. The intelligence community is own intelligence folks have said it was Russia. That did the hack. He's the only person it seems to believe the Russia didn't do the hack so the crowd strike does that even make no not at all does that disturb that he doesn't believe our own intelligence will crowd strike first of all was the one who got the server and they never shared it with the FBI. They've never shared it with anybody. There's still a lot of information we're trying to find out about how the Russians interfered with our election win. Barack Obama was president and I'm glad president trump continues to look into that interference so it doesn't happen happen again. He's the one trying to root out by the way president. Trump is the one who's been standing up to Russia. They talked about Javelin missiles in that call. President trump sold javelin missiles cels to knock those tanks out that Russia was sending into the Ukraine Obama wouldn't sell those javelin missiles. You might WANNA ask President Obama Joe Biden why they wouldn't sell all the javelin so that Ukraine could stop Russia from coming in with those tanks but president trump did and continues to provide relief. We've given a lot of relief in fact president trump has probably given more help to Ukraine than any other president. Why are it seems as if you endorse the president sort of one man operation here by Rudy Giuliani to go around the government government and try to do his own investigation? I've not understood this if the president doesn't believe the US government's assessment of what the Russians did why doesn't he ask the FBI to investigate. Why is he asking Rudy Giuliani to go? Do you understand. Have you understand that well. You can ask Rudy Giuliani that in the chairman himself said he's not even sure if he would bring Rudy but keep in mind. The chairman said a lot of things made a lot of baseless accusations. Chairmanship is the one who for two years was running around saying he had more than circumstantial evidence that president trump colluded with Russia on the on the the Muller Investigation and that turned out not to be true and so instead of saying okay we were wrong. Let's move on they continue to go down this road of impeachment regardless of the facts and you they've said that there were high crimes and misdemeanors the actual author of the articles of impeachment just recently a few days ago said that if they don't impeach President President trump he might get reelected he will get reelected is what he said. The framers did not put the power of impeachment in the constitution so that you could stop somebody from getting elected elected who was duly elected twenty six. PM It's a high crime and Misdemeanor Standard and they should take that with the respect that it deserves. Let me take the word the word impeachment out of this given what Rudy Giuliani was doing or was not doing. We don't know given what the president may have met with. I would like you to do as a favor though but we don't know is this not worthy of congressional oversight is not worthy of an investigation. Do you want to know what it is. That Rudy Giuliani was doing sort of either on on his own or against the wishes of some people in the government is not worthy of investigation again skipped the impeachment part for a second well. They've been investigating investigating president trump for over two years and the entire way making baseless allegations speaker Pelosi the day before the transcript came out was saying that there were there was gonNA show show that the president broke the law and then they didn't have any quid pro quo all of the things that they were saying they're investigating everything and that instead of by the way we should be moving giving us MCA to get a better trade deal we should be passing bipartisan legislation to lower drug prices. They won't bring those deals to approve of impeachment approve of all this Guiliani Rudy Giuliani this one's in the current. That conversation happened chuck if you'd let me answer that conversation with presidents Alinsky happened right after the Muller report came out after two years of an investigation Rudy Giuliani was the president's personal attorney in in that case so again you can ask rudy what he was doing. I know that what president trump talked about was continuing to find out what happened with Russian interference in the two thousand sixteen election because he has been standing up to Russia and there's a strong record by the way of how president trump has stood up to Russia when Barack Obama wouldn't in job pheasant when they would not stand up to Russia. Do you think it was appropriate for the president to ask a foreign leader for help investigating his chief political rival for twenty twenty again. Go look at what he talked about in that conversation he was talking about the twenty sixteen interference that happened in our election. Look they've been media reports for years. Joe Biden himself bragged long before he was a candidate for president that he went there to to Ukraine and held held the billion dollars back. I'M GONNA leave in six hours unless they fired the prosecutor. My goodness chuck a lot of people have been asking for that to be investigated. You know the the truth behind that. Why are you putting it out there as if it's a Oh my gosh we have no idea what you're what he was talking about that? I mean we're taking something that actually happened that the entire Western alliance support it. This was a bipartisan effort as you know in Congress that supported the alliance support a billion dollars of course there was a lot of corruption in fact. That's why Zilenski got elected with a mandate to clean up corruption he he and president trump are talking about that in the conversation things that both of them are doing to clean up corruption and drain the swamp a look all of this stuff with this whistle blower report. There were a lot of things if you read the whistle blower report that are concerning in terms of allegations that were very partisan in fact the Justice Department or the Inspector General All determined that the whistleblower does have a political bias again. Let let him go forward to make accusations but turned out to to not be true you you every time I've asked you whether you have been if you're concerned about the actions the president took you've avoided answering the specific question and instead focus. Don't they try to infer. Don't you seem to be unconceivable defending. You seem to let me let me put it this way. You seem uncomfortable defending in my mouth okay. I won't let I'll let you finish. I think you've made a lot of statements and accusations. That aren't true chuck. President trump was in the two thousand sixteen collusion interference that Russia had when Barack Obama was president and we all know that happened under Barack Obama's watch y'all love try to tie it to trump and trump continues to look into it. I'm glad trump continues to look into the interference that Russia tried to do you endured have investigation investigation don't go through the FBI go to a foreign government. We this isn't a rise in doing this again. You can talk about Rudy separately. Only the there is no private investigation. There's been a public government investigation into the collusion that Russia had trying to interfere with our elections. We still haven't gotten to the bottom of it. There's still a lot of serious questions that need to be answered so it doesn't happen again. In president trump's continued to be aggressive not only that but pushing back against Russia in many other ways I mentioned the Javelin missiles it's president trump who gave the soul the Javelin missiles to Ukraine so that they can bus those Russian task. I didn't do that by the way after reading that detailed note knock don't call it a transcript transcript. You are comfortable that the president the mixing he appears to be mixing politics and government policy does he not do not wait Russian interference with our election. It might be politics and government interfere with our election. He's rushing in theory yes and in fact he's saying it's not seems to be doing a Russian propaganda thing with saying. It's the Ukraine with the server with the candlestick or something. I what it sounds like. You're reading the Democrat talking points. The people have been saying for years that the president was involved in all these other things and then none of it turned out to be true. The Mueller investigation was their ticket to impeachment shouldn't by the way chuck shouldn't they. I have voted to start an impeachment inquiry which is always happened. This is only three three times in the history of our country that Congress has moved articles of impeachment and they wouldn't even do that. It's like they're trying to shield their members from voting on this just while they continue to go down the drumbeat of appeasement because as the author of impeachment article said he's concerned that the president will get reelected. That's not why you impeach president. We've got an election next year to deal with that. Kaczynski will leave it there the number two in the house. Thanks for coming on and sharing your views much appreciate it to be with you coming up the panel panel and the next steps on the road to possible impeachment but first how small country under siege from Russia became a threat to Donald Trump's presence new for meet the press the Chuck Todd Cast. It's an insider's take on politics the twenty twenty election and more candid conversations some of my favorite reporters about things we usually discuss off-camera listen for free wherever you get your podcast welcome back to Ukraine story is move at Warp speed over the last week and it's understandable if people are a bit confused infused about what president trump is accused of doing why he called the president of Ukraine Winnie did an exactly what role Ukraine plays in all of this. I'm joined now by Michael mcfaul who was President Obama's ambassador Russia and he's the author of from Cold Water Hot. PC US ambassador in Putin's Russia. It's currently a professor at Stanford University a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution. He and I are going to walk you through a brief timeline to at least help you understand how we got to the point where at Michael mcfaul tried to do this the way you spend your days yes yeah up here in front of our slide in front of our slides in front of you. Check it is the phone call was actually the middle. It looks like of this of this controversy. Not The beginning in fact at the beginning goes back to early nineteen when as personal attorney for President Trump Rudy Giuliani starts looking for Ukrainian contacts to help him in Rudy Giuliani's words find out the origins origins of the Muller reported right look for the real hackers potentially looking for some dirt on Joe Biden he meets with a prosecutor general by the name of Lusashenko Sankoh a few times and then he's what is he looking for exactly again. He's trying to pursue a a conspiracy theory that Ukraine not Russia hack the DNC NC and that Joe Biden had a former prosecutor fire simply to help his son walk me through these well. Let's start with Joe Biden and the prosecutor the man before loot Sankoh. Mr Shokhin was the one that we were putting pressure on the administration and everybody else and he wasn't doing enough to investigate corruption including Biden son and so when Lukashenko comes on the scene Giuliani thinks he has a new partner somebody he can go after this story and he does aggressively the second part is a little more cockamamie. They want to build this theory that somehow accompanying called crowd strike. I found the emails publicize them some crew craning in connection which I don't understand and that was a way to help Hillary Clinton when the election but both of those stories Mr Giuliani is trying to find that's why he's engaged with Ukraine well he he he is able to get some of this stuff into the conservative. Mostly through Fox News you see constantly through the month margin on twitter crane Ukraine you know and Biden and what's it's this and all this stuff so creating this predicate that somehow this this matters and then something out of the ordinary happens to their plan April twenty first. I A surprise victor in the Ukrainian presidential election what why did this set them back because the previous prosecutor Mr Lutsenko was there guy he was working with Giuliani and suddenly Lukashenko's boss partial loses an election to Mr all this work done to curry favor with him and he thought was is the president's lead investigator suddenly out to win and he's like who's this Alinsky and what are we gonNA do now. How are we going to keep pushing this story with the brand new president well clearly the president? Maybe maybe needed leverage. So what do they do. They force out the ambassador who had been getting back and forth or Julie. Guiliani Guiliani cancels his own trip to meet with some people people close to the Zilenski then this the ultimate snub vice president pence was GONNA lead our delegation to Zilenski inauguration they yank him and it was meant to send a message July a bigger message. They announced the freezing of the eight nearly four hundred million dollars that was supposed to go to Ukraine. It isn't clear if the Ukrainian government knew it was definitely being frozen over all of this but of course this leads to the phone call on July twentieth which by the way happened the day after mother's testimony Tony to Congress. We think it's worthy of this but all of those actions leads us to I would like you to do us a favor though this was about what what well this is about president trump asking presidents Alinsky to help him find dirt on his political opponents in two thousand twenty. It's it's clear as day in the transcript and there is leverage their whether exactly what they knew I don't think is important. There's always leverage when you're talking to the president of the United States because all leaders of the world wants to have a good relationship with the president it's especially important when you're countries occupied by Putin and you need the leader of the free world to be on your side and when anybody says let me ask for a favor there's no favors and diplomacy. Everything is a quid pro quo everything is you do this. I'll help you well. This triggers obviously asli a whole bunch of concern the whistle blower I goes to his general counsel. CIA then he's worried it's going to get squashed files. The whistle blower complaint the House begins is an investigation. The administration does release the aid to Ukraine very quickly but at this point it seems to be too late and then we find out of course this is is all about Ukraine. What's the what is there any part of this that you think we don't yet know when it comes to the Ukrainian side that will add to the story? I think it's pretty clear cut myself. I don't think this is a case where we need to know lots more details. The president of the United States used his office not to advance American national interest dress but his private electoral gains. The only piece. I'm interested in Chuck. Is What's the Russia angle because just a few days after that call. He's on the phone with Latimer Putin eaten. It sounds like that call has also been you know somehow put on the Secret Service Yep I would love to know what he talked about Putin. We'll ever see any of the communications between the President and Putin that is going to be something. I have a feeling we're going to talk a lot about investment. Thanks for doing this sure thanks for having us when we come back the debate over impeachment analysts next welcome back panelists here Hugh Hewitt host on the Salem Radio Network you Michelle Singapore White House correspondent for PBS Newshour Presidential Historian Doors Kerns Goodwin whose book leadership and Turbulent Times comes out in paperback this week why why now mark leave of its chief national correspondent for The New York Times magazine well doors leadership in turbulent times we did some voter. We talked to a few voters in New Hampshire yesterday just to see how they're responding quickly. You take it with a grain of salt but the comments were interesting. Take a listen a lot of people like trump but they're too scared to say anything because we got some Wackos out there that Wanna a punch in the face of you say you like trump should go through with the process whether it messes with the outcome of the twenty twenty election. I think that's owned mm-hmm ball of wax divided anyway right so moving forward with potential impeachment procedures. I think is not going to to really do anything different. Give us your sort of that historical view. What what what what's happening? Well you know when I look back at the the three impeachments that I've lived through. I mean really only was there for Nixon and Clinton but I feel like I was there with Andrew Johnson. The critical thing is how is history going to regard what the house is doing right now. Will it be like Nixon that the consensus will be afterwards that they had to do this because he had to be held accountable and in the end Republicans Republicans came along and in the end Ford says our long national nightmare is over or will it be like Clinton regarded as a partisan endeavor that boosts Clinton in that case would boost trump trump and doesn't lead to a discussion and the real challenge. I think is the debate within the way they're going to conduct these hearings. They can't just throw around words like abuse so power a violation of oath they have to explain it has to be a giant civics lesson to the country to understand. Why are these things such that these people had to feel the need to try and impeach him now before the election and that's the story that has to be told you have to be just like these people are talking to you if they're successful in making it clear that they think he should be impeached? Somebody he has to be able to tell a story to the person sitting next to them in the bar that has a beginning a middle and and this is why it had to be done if they can't do that and then it simply goes away and as part of the Russian investigation Asian country is going to be more divided than ever before and there's a need for speed you hate to say that there's a need for both speedy thoroughness. Is that possible mark. It's going to be hard. I mean I I think what people do miss here and say everyone's divided anyway if people are in their corners there actually is a middle here I mean the middle is is narrow. It's narrower than it might have been in the seventies these during Watergate but there is a time and I think it would behoove certainly Democrats to do this as quickly as possible although also thoroughly as possible to actually win over maybe a ten percent in the middle of this who are actually amenable to some facts that could potentially change their mind on some things if it stays a fact-finding mission it likely will continue to get support early polling showing the public is open open to this investigation here. I want to pick up on Soviet professor currency which which is I was like ten she's like ten but the most important thing that was said this morning far is Adam shift came on any went full allison wonderland queen of hearts verdict first trial later I believe he destroyed his credibility this morning on this show as a fair arbiter her of this process the other thing about is there enough time is there a middle middle is tired of investing president trump. It has gone on for two years and the the most interesting part of Nancy Pelosi decision to go for a fast impeachment is the implicit but very real concession that the Muller report had no impeachable impeachable offence no obstruction no collusion it's gone they have erased it from the record so Adam Schefters bias and Nancy Pelosi has admitted that Muller exonerated trump. Let's talk about the simple story that Democrats have been searching for for a very long time. The Miller report was a four hundred and forty eight page report that people were confused about now now. They have a sentence. That's about twenty five words that says the president of the United States was trying to get a foreign country to interfere in the twenty twenty election. That's what Democrats have been looking for their entire entire time. The president trump was office and they finally have it here and I think that's why we see representative shift saying that the cover up might be important but the most important thing is what the President President set on the call. That's at the heart of this and I think that's why there's political risk there for both Democrats and Republicans all right. I'm going to get to some of the key players are going to become stars of this investigation they they were these are the folks named in the whistleblower complaint pence Bar pompeo Giuliani Ivanovich the ambassador Volker the special envoy who resigned Friday Sunland and the US Attorney Durham. I want to focus on Rudy Giuliani here amid at guys because it feels like if things get really bad for the president that Rudy is already looking like the escape goat the easiest scapegoat Republicans are ready to turn on him. I wish he would shut the heck up. Republicans sour on Giuliani says the political headline. I think it would be a good thing if he would take a vacation -cation. He's as wild as a march hare from John Kennedy. I'm not sure he's helping the president by being on TV. Every fifteen minutes said Lindsey Graham. I wish he would shut the heck upset. Another Republican lawmaker Ker Hugh Hewitt could rudy be the the guy that everybody concentrates there yeah I don't like I don't like this. Don't impeach the president really bad guy. He's not John Dean and the one thing we have to be careful of is well. He indeed is an object of controversy in score and often inside the beltway he cuts through everything outside of the beltway. So when you go to war and Ohio people we'll hear him and they respect them and they listened to him. I think they hear him because he is everywhere. I mean I think I think what he is emblematic of is he is first of all he is a proxy for the president the personal attorney or you know sometimes they'll he's a free range chicken. Senator Kennedy would say right but he also is someone who I mean the fact that he's out there so much is emblematic. The fact that a lot of Republicans are not comfortable being out there very much. The defense of President Trump has not come to any kind of coherent message and whatever whatever Rudy Giuliani says in a given day becomes the message and he becomes sort of a lightning rod here for when you talk to Rudy Giuliani the issue with that is that he's also talking about all the other people that he says we're involved. He says the State Department called me eakins invited he he basically says here Adam Schiff here more people to subpoena here subpoena and there's this idea that really there's a long list of people that Rudy Giuliani says is part of this even though the mother report might not have been impeachable offenses what you see in the Miller report is a cast of characters. They're trying to mitigate the president's actions or trying to help help them along in the complaint. What are you a group of people who are either trying to help him with which is Rudy Giuliani or trying to mitigate him which is Kirk poker doors? You're going to get the last word so you mentioned something very smart about the Nixon impeachment in the moment. It was very partisan. After it was over there was a consensus you hear Mitt Romney say deeply troubling here Ben Sasse saying let's not get quickly rally around here. Are Those the is that what you're watching for. I think it's really important for the country if this is going to go through that it becomes at least more bipartisan than it is at the beginning and when you do here Republican senators beginning to speak up that what we saw on the face is troubling if more facts come out maybe maybe more people will come to the forward that we don't know who other whitehead officials who talked to the whistle blower. Hopefully facts will drive this forward and you'll see some consensus. That's what we have to hope for four hundred country either consensus that he shouldn't be impeach or they should fulfilling Senate Republicans Aaron a better place to do that. Then House republic coming up how will the push for impeachment in fact the Democratic Democratic presidential race but first we come back part of my interview with Iran's Foreign Minister Trod Zarif Welcome back as a candidate Donald Trump was highly critical of the two thousand fifteen Iran nuclear deal which was joined by China France Germany Russia the UK and the European Union and as president he withdrew withdrew the United States from the accord in May of last year so with the US out of the deal Iran has recently taken steps to enhance its nuclear program in the US also blamed Iran for the attack on Saudi Arabia's main oil facility. Yesterday I sat down with Iran's Foreign Minister Javad Zarif and asked him about the possibility of ever reaching a new agreement with president trump. You imagine you can actually ever cut an agreement with President trump that he has made it very difficult because he has said this was an agreement by the previous administration notwithstanding the fact that this was a Security Council resolution but simply stating that this was an agreement by by the previous administration if I if I were to start negotiating with disag- ministration it took us last time it took us two years to negotiate this time it will take us even more because we know oh how the United States behaved and let us assume that president trump is reelected in two years time is only three years left of the United Night two of the second term of president trump. Do we vase two years of negotiations just to benefit while you sound like you've made the decision. You're not talking. You'RE GONNA wait till there's a new American president either twenty twenty or twenty ornament waiting for that rating for this administration to come to its senses or the future administration you would negotiate with this administration of course we will still with president trump not not a new need. They have to show that Dade respect their signature on this. They showed that they respect their signature. There's no point in negotiating with them. Because you set back precedent you renegotiate gate an already negotiated issue with this administration that is no end to that because tomorrow they can come back to you even the same administration and tell you you this was not enough let me tell you about. US MCA Mexico at about President trump to renegotiate Nafta they reach us MCA mm ca but then president trump says unless you agree to some of my demands on immigration I will not implement USMC so there is no end somebody somebody starts bullying and the more you give to that bully the more it wants well. You can see my entire interview with foreign ministers a wreath including that cyber war comment he made that we released yesterday where he admits that Iran in the US are in an active cyber war his refusal to deny Iranian role in that attack on Saudi the oil facilities all of it is on our website meet the press dot com when we come back and game the impeachment fife a good thing or a bad thing if your name is Joe Biden and then game Let's just cut through all of this. This is the the next four months. Everybody's got the same question politically which is what's job. I look like at the end of this process. Here's Biden dealing with this the first time publicly on Friday my family handle this but I'm worried about all the families and all the lives that are at stake in this election because of his his failure as a president in terms of the substance of what needs to be done theory that the presidential race for now basically freezes in place by Warren but ultimately we're trying to figure out how's this impact your I think there are political risks and their political benefits I've been talking to sources inside the Biden campaign pain and they told me that this week they saw their best fundraising numbers ever since the second week of his campaign. So what you saw was Elizabeth Warren starting to rise in Iowa some polls showing for the first time that she was was ahead now. They're starting to see more interest in their campaign. I'm also hearing that they think it's ridiculous to compare hunter by into Don Jr. which is something that people are starting to do because Republicans Republicans are making the case that essentially you'd say that the President Don Junior's son has been essentially profiting off of the fact that his father is as president and was in the same thing when his father was vice president that said the trump campaign says we also got five million dollars twenty four hours after Nancy Pelosi launched this formal impeachment inquiry so in some ways there's risks everywhere for both parts. Joe Biden doesn't want to be talking about one hundred Biden's business dealings in Ukraine and president trump. It doesn't want to be talking about the favor that he asked on that. Call this a almost if if this damages trump than the only good news Republicans get out of it is to damage Biden with yeah he is definitely damaging to your your question. Yes that is good news. Joe Biden has been devastated by this series in the Washington Post this morning on the landing page not only a columbine me which is a partisan column Tom But an in-depth report about hundred by Ukraine doing what you did with Mike mcfall chronology building on the New Yorker profile and I believe in one standard if there there was enough evidence to use a fiso warrant against Carter page for being an eight probable cause for being an agent or an accomplice before government hundred Biden should have been under the same surveillance from two thousand fourteen forward for the same reasons that he is deeply cooperating with people whose interests are not aligned with the United States abroad. I I I don't I I have no idea how that is even remotely relatable but I will read your call I would put it under the umbrella and he wrote a great column but I would put it under the umbrella of exhaustion. I think as you said earlier I think you said a lot of people are are exhausted from people from the Democrats Investigating Investigating Donald Trump. I would just say people are exhausted. A lot of people are exhausted with everything around Donald Trump. I think that's happened before Ukraine. I think it started started to show up in Donald Trump's numbers. I think this story has put a whole new big pile of exhaustion onto this big big sort of smoldering. Whatever it is Korea you can be pro trump's agenda trump fatigue doors? I think that's true. I think the problem for Joe Biden is that what he had going for him was that he was part of the Obama. Administration Gratien scandal free basically no drama every day and he could return to that normalcy in a certain sense now he's been made part of this drama the benefit fit for because I agree with you the risks and benefits not only the sympathy that people might feel but if this really ups his campaign if he realized I'm finding for my honor and my reputation I'm not just fighting because some electable and he talks to reporters morning gives more speeches and he does less campaign funding and he does what a person fighting for their life does the head of the Nixon Library Bray over here and I have my favorite story over there should Biden give checkers speech should go on sixty minutes with Hunter Biden by his side and take every question interesting. What do you think of a checkers speech could be quite effective could be quite effective? I think he has to deal with it more correctly and then he did the clip we saw this morning my apologies for those of you going checkers speech. which is this goes back to Richard Nixon Vice President in nineteen? I say that because sometimes we'd make these references that we don't do enough of but at that point Nixon accused of something and he uses television for the very first time to become a sympathetic I figure I think Joe Biden could completely benefit from this but I think they're really going to have to explain why Hunter Biden is different from Don Jr. different from from what what people think president trump was doing in his with his children. I will just say really quickly there was a poll out that PBS NEWSHOUR NPR did there's fifty eight percent of people said this would have have no factor in who they voted for twenty twenty all of this so that's. That's some if you're a Democrat though don't you worry about what they'll drop. When the campaign here we go October? That's maybe what they think they finally though as we say goodbye I got a note about Hamilton. Not The musical the man Alexander Hamilton wrote in federalist sixty five of the perils of the impeachment process warning that each side Mike Judge the case based on pre existing biases Hamilton wrote and in such cases there will always be the greatest danger that the decision will be regulated more by the Comparative Strength Parties than by the real demonstrations of innocence or guilt sound familiar luck America. That's all we have for today's history lesson. Thank you for watching. We'll be back next week with federal at sixty six because if it's Sunday meet the press in getting everyone breaking Lester College. Are you afraid of playing with fire. The most trusted TV news anchor in America here in Normandy hundreds gathered to honor the heroes. This is what it means to be American

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