RPG Lessons Learned 095 Hatari Tower (World of Dungeons)
R._P._G.. Lessons learnt when the game is over when your players are gone. That's lessons learned. We're at R._P._G.. L. podcast on twitter instagram facebook R._P._G.. L. PODCAST AT N._J._I._T.. Dot Com and Chuck Online at R._P._G.. Lessons learned dot com. Hi Welcome to R._P._G.. Lessons learned the show where you can learn from our mistakes with today. Oh my God miracle of miracles wonder of wonders both Loath Mike and Brian on the same episode at the same time with me. Got The band back together we do I remember when it was Brian and Mike and not Mike and Brian so mobile hurt well attendance. Does that yeah <unk> outs life has been insane. You know not this episode. We should do an episode where we just kind of catch up on what's been going on a ketchup fluff said I think after one episode Riyan Brian This will be episode ninety five after turned ninety five episodes where we do pretty good job not having a lot of fluff content. We should have just a whole fluff episode. Yeah we could people like that. I don't want to jump the shark too badly man. We might do it for fun all right on for a change yeah so we're talking about a game that we played literally one week and one day ago that Iran in world of dungeons and I called it Atari Tower and it was not named after the Atari system it was actually named after a John Wayne movie that is terrible <hes> but also great. I have to interject her a quick. I think this might have been the first movie theme based game that none of us Gotha reference for congratulations dusty. Actually I stole the title from that movie but nothing else has taken from that movie <hes> okay. I got this adventure from somewhere and I wasn't going to tell you where Mike and you bringing up. I almost WANNA tell you but I'm so worried it'll ruin it. It'll cheapen in Israel. Think less of me. I would never think less view dusty. We'll see at the end. I might tell you where it came from. We'll see how I feel about it. I this is not a petits thing when trying to like tantalize the audience. I'm honestly not sure I'M GONNA share it all right. Let's let's rate this game. So it was backed the role of dungeons campaign it was those characters that we made for a one-shot <hes> listeners might remember that we played the the frozen game the frozen session where we had Ursula instead of Elsa and all that that was in the system with these characters so we revisited this world we played in person. You guys came over to my house. It was awesome to <hes> get back together for for an in person session and I want to know your your numeric ratings and a quick sentence about how why you rated the session what you rated it. Let's start with Brian. I gave it a five in my mind it. was you know more or less than average game with more or less on average sort of system. I had a couple issues whether it had a lot of a ton of fun <hes> but a couple of issues with it mostly with the system. I you know as many games we played now. <hes> I thinking statistically <hes> it's it's really right in the middle and in that case it's really five so I couldn't scored any higher and I definitely didn't want to score lower Mike so I went with a seven of course being biased towards enjoying world of dungeons and more importantly enjoying my character and these word of dungeon campaigns we've done. I automatically floated to the top but I think what can be from going. A little bit higher was <hes> the the feeling of overwhelming threat in this dungeon right. It felt like everything we touched would suddenly blow up on us if we touched at the wrong way and I think it kept us for making thinking you know a lot of a lot of mistakes that could have been really fun but also resulted in in our deaths. ooh That's interesting so I read the game six I brian my thinking was more or less in line with yours. This session was about average there there. There's a Lotta than better I could've done more more good. I can't think of the right you sound like my seven year old. Yeah where I was going with more <hes> I could've done better I coulda had visuals could have had props I could've pulled something magical chuckle out of my hat <hes> and as it was it was just a pretty good session and being a pretty good session I went with six so we're going to do something different with feedback today. Something that's a pretty normal feedback exercise in the workplace cut knows that Brian Mike can. I have lived through more than enough of these yeah. It's called start. Stop and continue so the rating was for the session. The start stop at continue is for me the G._M.. I'm specifically when running <hes> the session or or this game this campaign gene so a specific start. Stop continue so start things you want to see more of or you want to see that you're not seeing stop things that you you know that you're seeing that need to go away and continue things that you're seeing that you like like let's start with start Brian. What should I start doing? I'm not saying that you didn't do it in this game but I really think you need to start like really being lethal <hes> I mean we've been playing long enough to where <hes> I think sometimes we get complacent with the way that we play and one thing that keep things rashes holy crap. This system is lethal so don't be afraid to kill us. Don't be afraid to you know a lettuce <hes> <hes> you know suffer the pain of loss a little bit <hes> and and you know maybe it might toughness his players. <hes> you know I I think that <hes> you we've grown a lot but we still have a lot of growing left to do and to to really be mature mature about things and <hes> approaching things beings with <hes> with adult mindset in adult not being you know <hes> risque or whatever adult being really mature and everything I would I would say <hes> maybe toughness up a little bit and you know if dis dis with that being said. I really love my character in this campaign so please kill everybody else except Bragman. It's all I gotta say my character almost died like and I was entirely okay with that. I was actually a little sad. I think when my character ended up living got the part where your character died wouldn't it almost dot <hes> I think twice the first time it took the first time character took damage. I mean it started off with to hit points right. I forgot I forgot. We started the session off rolling your character yeah because Brian you hadn't played in our previous two sessions in campaign. Nope Bosso Mike and Nathan I level to I guess at this point. I'd love a one and my character you know my character was that the glass last cannon and certainly certainly fragile so we rolled your hip points and you had two hip points Yup. I think I think a lot of that came down to when when we <hes> the three of us win when Nathan Chris and I originally wrote her characters for road of Dungeons. I think we took a different approach to it to win. Brian did right so we took like a good half hour forty five minutes to create our characters and the super simple you know super simple three page system. We still took like half an hour easily to to think about what we were doing and putting it together and I think Brian kind of made more arrest approach because it was so simple and didn't really have a chance to kind of think about what would work for for optimizing his character now that I said that kind of out loud I'm kind of saying we took the opportunity to cheeser characters up. where bright had that opportunity? I think it hurt. I don't know that I had the opportunity to optimize so much. I think it optimize as far as like this the attributes and I rolled <hes> I mean I can't help that. Make your truly to hit points. It's just the way it worked out true. Well I mean you could have done like armor and stuff which he didn't had a shield and they had light armor of Data Shield at the end of the game though 'cause I gave you a shield. Oh yeah yeah that's right yeah yeah so like I said I think they're they're maybe with a little more investment of time. It wouldn't have been as glass cannon and you might have been able to make a little more more rounded character. That would have been less likely to die so D- feel when easy on you in the session Brian took to bring you back to life I mean I mean it wasn't so much. I don't feel that you went to easy easy. I feel that in generally in most games you do <hes> I feel in this one. I mean unless I'm wrong. I mean you didn't pull you punches. My character just happened to die or happened to go down but the mechanics were such that a hill potion away from you know being resuscitated so I don't think you an easy on me but maybe maybe you did and it just didn't realize it so fun fact and I just reviewed the rules to make certain there's no real death undying dying rules here. There's no real rule about what happens when your hip went to get reduced zero. Are you in conscious or are you dead. How long can you be down? There's just a very brief paragraph with just a one two three four sentences. Instances about how to roll your hit die and how to read roll your hit die when you're when you rest or when you or attended by a healer and that's it so we could have said zero hit points you. You're simply dead. I didn't WanNA play that way. I don't even feel like I thought that's more old school than old school so I you weren't down for long. You're down very briefly in someone invested a he'll potion to get you back up yeah and I mean again not a lot of rules around this so us at that point. It's kind of transparent to get my I play the system no sure and trying to resist your feedback. I'm just trying to I really think at through yeah. No I honestly as we are going to pre show. We're sort of talking through ideas ideas of what we WANNA do for start stopping you continue and I didn't have a stop by do now so we'll get to that kind of excited to share that <hes> but yeah I think we're all trying to figure this out as we go because we're used to like these systems with like this framework framework that provides for usually not everything but most things this doesn't have that yeah oh no zero points. Let how do the work. Let's turn to the death dying chapter or the death undying page of rules. This has nothing. He tried to eat figured out. Okay good feedback Mike which I start doing yeah I'm still blank on start was opened by the time we got here. I could come up with something for start but I'm still struggling with that. So maybe we pass ask for now and I'll see if I have something by the episode Stop Brian. What should I stopped doing playing world of dungeons them? I you know we've talked about before I like Nick Games. I'd like systems that you know Kinda heavy unrolls and there's a lot of <hes> structure to and we can refer to the death dying page or we can refer to the you know <hes> the <hes>. Oh what what what is it the grappling page in all of that. We don't have it with this so it. This is really really improvisational way more improvisational than I'm used to not that improvisational isn't nice but I like having rules to adjudicate things by and I like having a system where I can you know understand black and white you know let me like in the margins or as you as G._M.. And US the players you know like the grey the lines we can we can play with that. You know in the margins but like there's certain things I think renewed like God going back to work like you know <hes> white lines bright lines <hes> you know sometimes we need bright lines in this doesn't really have any so <hes> I don't know how comfortable and with that honestly so maybe this is an opportunity for us to make a world of dungeons death and dying role right. Put it just in the regular rules of the two D six role where if you go down to zero hip points us you get a role. If you roll tenor higher your backup with one hit point. If you roll medium you're not dead but you get to try and if he roll the low then that's all she I love that idea. I think what we should do the way that I wanNA work this system out to make it to work that way. Let's just take the DEFOR Eero Book and he's that I forgot the D._N._C.. For rules there were a lot of Sir Yeah exactly interesting and Brian this. You've consistently said this. You WanNA simulation. You don't want an abstraction. The more abstract the rules are the less you like it and I mean we had a protracted conversation around would you when you rolling castles and Crusades character around justified to me dusty. Why am I hit points double? When I go to level yeah I did? I Yeah I just didn't make sense and this that doesn't happen in fourth addition to your point in fourth addition edition you start off God. I've forgotten hypocrite fourth edition so someone out there is GonNa crucify me but you start off with a I think a flat number plus your constitution score. Not Your modifier your score so if you have a con of eighteen you're adding eighteen to whatever the basic points points are for that Racer Class I forget which so you can have a starting character with like twenty thirty points and then when you go up when you go up a level you don't get that many more hip points. It doesn't double. It's a it's a more significant percentage from first level the second level it's always the steepest percentage climb but <hes> to your point in year versus in that you played starting character set a fair number of points and you certainly gain some second level but you didn't double them yeah. I guess maybe the way that I'm playing this. I didn't play my character level one character and I really should in that's on me <hes> but <hes> you know <hes> I think this is a great system to like something like this not necessarily the system but something like this would be great to play with somebody who is <hes> just getting started. Maybe a younger player but not like you know my kids. I think <hes> but I yeah I think for like the I think for somebody who is a really seasoned tabletop player. This is probably not enough as as amateur into my role playing comforts and my role playing career I want I fall in love more and more with with rules light systems. I want to liberals like systems more and more now having said that they're the couple issues with the system couple some issues with some other rule slight systems that can have recently tried or supposedly rules light systems and I have issues with issues a fate. I've issues with lots of systems that are supposed to be rules light but <hes> I don't know Brian. Maybe I'm there with you and in fact here's what I want WanNa do and I want to do it very soon. I WANNA play a fourth edition game. We talked to last year. I have bought more fourth edition. They're more fourth addition books in what you had well. I picked up some appetite. Goodman Goodman Games aims used book from a used bookstore called from here to their from there to hear it was a fourth addition <hes> supplement about travel and it's got some good adventure Senate and someone was selling off their four e collection and I had never picked up Marshall Powers Arcane powers hours that you know all that I picked all those up so I've got more fourth addition books than I ever have. In fact I now have extra copies of here is the Fallen Kingdoms and here is the forgotten realms so I've got some extra copies of the players books books <hes> we should play some fourth edition. I now owned the keep on the shadow fell which I missed because I started playing forty late when that adventure had fallen out of favour for being to lethal I think playing a super lethal you know I I through third level dungeon crawl with dungeon tiles and Somany's Hana Map who but we say that Brian We've played bef R._p._G.. We played a fortress of the Iron Duke and I really don't think you enjoyed it is all man fortress of the iron do so that was so how that was what twenty fourteen two thousand fifteen no that was earlier this year reference was I did. I play that game. Didn't you don't think so. Mike was either for that. I think so I see it's like you were her. I'll have to get back and listen to the episode but I wasn't on the episode and I didn't remember the game so <hes> but it's it's been awhile since I listened to that I remember editing the episode and listening to it but I I wasn't on that episode. I don't believe <hes> you know though a suit as soon as you say we have to go back and try for e again the only thing I can think about his <hes> man I had to print out a ton of cards and spell grids and blast radio hi <hes> fourth dude. I just gave away. I don't even told you guys this remember. When I back that repair miniatures kickstarter actually those to kick starters all those bones many all those bones many they've been in a sitting in a tub in my garage? Sh like you know a six hundred thousand minutes whatever it was they've been sitting in a tub in my garage for years since two thousand fourteen so five years <hes> for a long time and I finally gave Malla Joey at work so it's funny you should mention that when I was cleaning out the Corolla for trade-in I actually found those two bones Minnie's I bought in Connecticut like years and years ago so if we need a beholder and I can't even remember what the other one is but if we need like to many's I've got like two monsters of a car for like six years what I didn't get rid over my boxes in boxes in boxes in boxes of Pathfinder Ponds so when we play for E we're going to use pathfinder ponds to play on the grid but I really think Brian you're. You're going to be taken aback by how much you don't like forty but I wanna try it. I WanNa give you that chance to see what you think. I I appreciate that and I went back and I that was the game that we abandoned isn't it. It is the game yes so I was is in that <hes> yeah. I don't know that as a group where you're feeling it <hes> but you guys I think you guys abandoned without me. <hes> I think I I wasn't able to make the follow up game and you guys decided just not the play anymore. If I remember right that's when you decided to move to the the <hes> the frozen game yeah I think that is what kicked off our dungeons gas so like I like I. It was okay but I think you guys were feeling it not feeling it as much as I a little less than I was feeling it all. All right so Brian Stop is stop playing rules light systems <hes> Mike. What's your stop <hes>? I just had <hes> there. There's a couple of frustration points at this game right and I think it Kinda came to the fact that we didn't have characters with skills to overcome the specific obstacle rights specifically. I'm thinking about there is one point where we encountered adore. It was locked and we knew enough that there was like this deadly poison needle inside the loch where if we messed best with incorrectly we would die right so we we tried strength. We couldn't strengthen the door. We didn't have anybody who could lock pick to lock pick the door. We didn't have a good enough climbing ability to like climb the scales of the wall or we didn't even have equipment whip count to climb and scale into a window every time we thought about going back to town for supplies. There was like a threat that the guy is we hired would betray us so we we kinda got stuck right and it got a little frustrating that we got to that point point where basically it just turned into our wizard had to blow spell slots to physically destroy the door with lightning and I don't know for lost not the door the sorry the luck the lucky he destroyed the lock with lightning that that felt a little frustrating to me right. It's like we we simply. Don't have the tools to do the specific thing we need to do so we're having to use tools that we might not normally use. I you know we never prepare the door. It's always the door it is burn it. We always want want to power our way through it but we are never prepared for the door. I take that more on his players. We just that basic thing that element that we have to deal with every single single day dozens or hundreds of times we don't think about it. It's we shouldn't Bush be prepared to handle doors when we started game in reality. Most doors are not super structurally sound objects right. It's a fortress that we're breaking into. They usually are maybe not you can weaken hinges. You can weaken mortar around you know stones at the hinges are connected to it's a door. Were should not be a party defeating moment rate the you shouldn't ever come up against door like up nope well. We're all WS we can't figure out how to either brute force the story down or take off the hinges or something like that right. There's there's no door. Hinges shouldn't be a you know open from the outside ever so if it's like an old S. busted fortress the hinges are absolutely going to be exposed all right so let me <hes> let me catch up the audience audience for for where we are in the adventure right you get the adventure. The adventure is hey. There's this wizards tower on the town that appears in disappears and it's appeared and the the majors in town are hiring people to go. Try to get books out this tower. You guys go there you <hes> first of all there's the wall and you've got to figure out your way past the wall. You guys figure out the wall the walls of expire oil you figure out that there's optical there's a couple of optical illusions that are not real allusions just optical illusions like in labyrinth breath and you figure out how to work your way to inside the wall inside the wall. You find all these statues that are super realistic like all statue Cindy and of course you're less. They're they're petrified. People petrified adventurers the people who never came back from this dungeon. I as the town was so fond kind of telling everyone people don't come back so the people that figured out the wall there now stuck in the courtyard of the tower as statues you kill the caucus rice that had been statue wing everyone and at that point and here's what I loved about the door at at that point you have made it the furthest of anyone that's ever tried this everyone else who even makes it into the wall get killed by the by by the stone chicken by the Magic Evil Chicken that turns people into stone so you've made it the farthest and this is the first ever game where you guys hired hirelings. It's our first time dealing with hirelings and you use the hirelings to get passed a major puzzle for me. which is how do you find this tower and I start cuisine you guys in hanging on the tower and you're like well? I hired the expert. He can just take us there. He's from town and I was like Oh shit. You're right. I forgot about that so you had just gimmick me out of a major puzzle. Now you've made it. The farthest and I loved loved. You guys didn't have the equipment. You're like how to town and I'm like okay. MIC wisdom role in one of you succeeded and I was like if you hadn't succeeded I was going to let you go back to town and I was going to have those two guides. Sell the secret of the spiral the wall and tell everyone that killed the caucus rice and now anyone can get there but you succeeded in your wisdom role and I had you figure out that would happen so now if you go back to town. That's the consequence that you draw if you try to stay you you don't have adequate equipment for the door. It is a fortress so that hinges are not on the outside because wizards aren't stupid. The Wizards I rule was that people are stupid but wizards aren't stupid so the hinges are on the inside. It's a stout door. It's made to be the front door of a fort. <hes> I felt good about it being tough to get into having said that Mike I do accept your feedback that it got frustrated and what I should done was let you Bashar head against a few things and that should have said okay. You know what you have a hammer or you have a hatchet. You have a camping hatchet <hes>. If you want to just say I invest eight hours or four hours or have many hours in hatching my way through the door while leaving the lock alone then I should've which let you get past. I think that maybe would've solved it but I will ask you. What's your ideal path? You're what should I have ideally said. Honestly I think that would have taken care of it and that's normally how you handle in the past rate win when we're out of tools but it's an obvious solution and we know that eventually with enough time force will be able to force our way through it usually in the past that does get a hand wave which some people say is right. Some people say is wrong but I just know that that's how we've handled in the past so I think that was kind of my expectation in in this game and when that didn't happen at got a little more frustrating and largely agree with you I mean the basic premise of that hand waving. Is that the world around us as much more fragile then we'd really like to think of it as I mean standing in in the room that I'm in right now I could exit this room through a sheet rock wall if I wanted to and it wouldn't take that long it would take surprisingly little time but convention and not one to hire contractor is what keeps us from doing that. I just had a visit of you busting through your bedroom wall cool eight. Oh yeah that was that was randy savage. What does the kool-aid say? Oh Yeah. Is it just less randy. Savage like Yeah Oh interesting the Kool aid man randy savage are now forever linked in my mind kindred spirits. That's good feedback. I I should give puzzle puzzle a few minutes and then all right. Let's get past it because it's frustrating okay tariff. That's a good stop. Let's talk about continues Brian. What should I continue doing? What do you like? I what I really liked about this. Is there several things that we didn't do and and they will forever be mysteries and I love that <hes> if I know that you're not going to tell me what I should have done or how he could approach something differently or what would have happened. I'm less inclined to who you know. Just skip through it so I am more inclined to you know savor the moments. Maybe you know to <hes> romantic way of putting it but I'm more likely clea to go through the effort to experience <hes> you know whatever you put in for novice and <hes> you know there's certain things that we knowingly skipped because we didn't WanNa die. Certain things you mean like a lot of things a lot of things yes so most of the Dungeon Man Mosey of the Dungeon. Let's see what all you skipped on the first floor there was the pulsating blue or skip you skip that <hes> you went upstairs and there were the <hes> the wooden creations since that were bustling about that you encountered in the you ask for directions and then you were even you note out of trying to figure out what they were or dealing with them any any more than that there was the floor above that when you thought the Dungeon Tat or the the the tower for the first time looked at a window for the first time and you saw not the outside of the tower but you saw <hes> as if you were on the ground floor and not the third floor you saw out onto a swamp where you could have climbed out the window and very comfortably hop down onto a swamp floor and walked out into a swamp and you didn't do that <hes> you went up another floor and you were looking out the window onto into basically space into a formless void with stars and Asteroids Rocks Spinning in place suspended in weightlessness and <hes> or with with no were very limited microgravity and you didn't engage with that you saw that horrible creature that was very towed like humanoid like you didn't engage with that window didn't engage with that content then you go upstairs and boom. Here's The library so you find the librarian the fifth floor you deal with with with you at that point you re engage with content so the. The orb the columns the swamp and the void four major things that you didn't engage with Fiqh think about it rationally the right. We were not equipped to deal with a door. What makes us think I think we're equipped to deal with inter dimensional swamps in space frogs so mike you you mentioned this feeling of dread and it's funny because Brian's like I didn't feel any danger and Mike was like I felt like everything was dangerous? Oh yes absolutely what did you say I didn't feel uh-huh any danger. I fellow we we. We talked about that. We're I just need to say that Mike wouldn't when you had that feeling of dread is all the mysteries and all the weird stuff in this wizards tower which would be terrifying thing to go through in reality wizard. A Real Wizards Tower is that we gave you that sense of dread all the stuff absolutely and I was totally playing up to my character in that too right. I am a simplistic Dullard. I see rock. I Smash Mash it. I follow orders. I don't even know if my character would be able to comprehend the vastness of space much less how it could be contained in a tower window and there is a space frog hopping from planet to planet in contained window space rate so when I was having those reactions I was kind of doing two things I always like saying. Oh No we as a party or not equipped to handle this and oh no my characters brain has no idea what's happening and he is mortally terrified Hammy sort of doing the same thing like my character I play my characters bright but not like over we so and definitely not wise so my character is smart enough to try to keep keep himself alive but and <hes> and you know to know like hey. This is crazy but also like I'm GonNa know about because if I can get past this without dying. I'm going to fair enough all right so good continues to continue you still don't know anything thing about the the columns the orb the swamp or the void now and I love that I love that I don't know so keep telling you keep telling you what you missed yeah because it's kind of like there's so much stuff in the world that that you can't experience it all and it's kind of like it's it's like the song strangers in the night kind of like that so <hes> just you know just always wonder but <hes> I will have the memory of not knowing and if you had told us is like hit the end I would probably forgotten about it so here's what was going on with that swamp yeah I agree and I think it also creates a lot of interesting opportunities to maybe tie stuff back together the future so you know if we do wind up playing this this campaign against prize which is you can always be like. Hey remember that space frog yeah here. He is deal with them now or hey you're in a swamp and you come across a window floating in the middle of the swamp them exactly by the way that wouldn't happen. <hes> okay so mike you have to continues down here. I think my I continue Kinda ties into just what we're talking about right so continuing threatening us with the unknown and making us make those gambles for the possibility of greater rewards or renown <hes> I think what was striking about this session was that it felt a lot like the tomb of horrors except we did not have the option of additional lives and I know it's been awhile since we're talking about the tomb of horrors beret wheat we we dissected that right. We sliced it up and carved it into every little tiny detail in wound up not losing you know a life over three sessions but this reminded me a lot about that. It's just like obvious danger obvious apparel and are you gonNa make the gamble of maybe making some really stupid moves for the potential success and whereas your line for that for that success. I really liked that. I like that. You're drawing us in things. That are Kinda obvious obvious but maybe you can win. Maybe you die. I I do like that Alec. Realistically your characters treated it. Yeah like ooh. This is fascinating but we're not here for this and kept saying like to break the plan of the window like absolutely not I remember. Are you saying that Mike Absolutely not yeah yeah. I'm like I'm like catty corner like up against the wall. If I may be lean over I can look at it but now all right so keep making you gamble. Keep threatening you with the unknown. What's your other continue? <hes> the other continues something we <hes> we did a previous <hes> Sasha than we did in this. I should have the same campaign where we started out. The game of everybody takes slip a paper right down one thing that's true or one thing that happened to the other player in between sessions oceans past that paper we pass all around so by the time you get your paperback. It's got a couple of things that someone else has said or created four or about your character and then you choose which one to keep Brian what you think of that. Well usually stuff like that. I'm not crazy about so. It's almost kind of like that forced corporate training where you have to. You know share something about you. It's you never wanNA share anything this really interesting. It's usually just you know you. Just try to get through it because you I just want to get done the training you get back to work but in this case it's kind of like I- offloaded something that I didn't want to do to somebody else so is able to <hes>. I you know Mike it's my character. I'm some I I have some level of investment in this character and I don't know that I necessarily want to create the backstory from my character. I don't want to be you know right now. In this moment you know stuck with something that I come up with but but if somebody else comes up with it and I just I have basically option one option to that just makes it easier on me and in that respect. I thought it was great. I love it for two reasons one is I think it's always so much easier to do. Someone else's work than it is your work work. You're emotionally tied up even even literally at work and we don't often or maybe we've never talked about this but Mike used to actually report to me at work for real like professionally you Mike. Do you remember when I when we we do staff meetings. We do all kinds of like crazy activities that were very work related. It wasn't like stupid activities that we didn't do anything with it was it was very much based on Hey. Let's find money. Let's go find process. Let's go find work yeah. Do you remember the time I had you all do each other's work vaguely. I think idea remember that yeah where you had someone else right requirements and someone else tried to do some stuff and access yep and my theory was with that was sometimes your work can be really tough to start your emotionally tied up in it. You're invested in it you of hangups about it. You dread it. You know I it's it's really tough to be enthusiastic about your work and even start it in. There can be a huge barrier to getting started but it's really easy to do someone else's work. It's really easy to be more detached and more cerebral and not emotionally invested. It's why people you know for years can give you personal advice that you know you should listen to but you just can't like hey man. You really should dump that chick or Hey lady. That dude's not for you. He's a jerk like your friends around. You can see that but you can't see it because you're too tied up in it. <hes> doing having everyone else do things for your character. I think helps your character developing away. That may not be obvious to you because you're too emotionally invested in experiencing life as your character character versus plotting life fear care. Let's reason number one. I like it reason number two like it when I play in Martin's game and we come back to the table after weeks away from the able to to pick up these characters again I have this insane desire that I have to suppress press every single session to have optimized all of our time away from the table like hey. It's been like three Martin Open session with it's been about three or four months and I want to stop and say I got a job and now I have a lot more gold. You know I want to optimize mayes that downtime. You know what I'm saying and if this this doesn't let you optimize it other people tell you what what happened. Other people and you can't optimize the downtime and if I started if Martin started our sessions that way where we have an optimized downtime but things did happen in the downtime it makes the characters feel more real and it takes away that temptation to optimize the downtown so I love doing that if says I'm gonNA keep doing that for sure now that you've said that out loud however the next time we do this we are all absolutely going to right pro optimization of downtime things for each other characters. I guarantee yes. It's true so mike what happened to Brian's character. Since the last adventure he found a plus five though he became came the empire of the world and subjugated everyone in his wrath it turns out he's the Avatar of living God who would a guest and it was like a week things I should not have said okay. That's it for the stop. Continue <hes> good feedback guys any last words at all about the session. I'm I'm a little said that Brian doesn't like world of Dungeons. It's okay. It's not my favorite though I the fact that the G._M.. Doesn't roll like attacks and stuff that that bothers me. I love that I really like that. I put that as a good on our strengths that we'll talk about here in a minute I love I love.