Leaving the Church because of the Church Part 2
Hi everyone thank you for joining us here again at true faith stories. I am your host Deborah Kabong by Kuma Amu- hosts Mary a danger today we are just going to dive right back again and continue our talk from last week which is spiritual abuse Church Trauma Church hurt and all of the above the above the last week I shared my story and so this week. It's Marius turn turn is when you crazy first of all okay. The should not be a good thing to rejoice. But isn't it crazy that both of us have experienced a similar similar stories from real experiences with Garrett. I mean that tells you how much this is. You know. It tells you that this is happening way too often. Exactly that are like across different states across the nation. You know it tells you that this is happening way too often often. It's not a good thing and when we met that's won't you know besides being writers of course that's one thing that you know. The first thing we connect on was the fact that we were both writers. The second thing somehow you know I think I had mentioned spiritual abusers got me to experience. The story is really wait. This is crazy so I'm just gonNA stop here and I'm going to have her tell us her experience so so Tamara. Can you just tell us what what happened. You know how. Why are you hurt by the church? What was your experience with spiritual of? Oh well let's see here you know and I have to say that over time I have healed So I am not necessarily -sarily hurt by the church anymore. I am still disappointed in the way some churches do things. I don't expect that to change anytime soon. Just because we're flawed awed in you know some of us aren't really trying to change and some of us are still changing so But my experience was different than yours. It's in the way that My spiritual leader was a woman. ooh Yeah and I don't know how often we hear about a a spiritual beings coming from women but I in fact encountered a woman who operated in what I like to call the Jasbir Isabel. Spirit if you're not familiar familiar explained to those who are not familiar. Oh my gosh now. First of all the bills spirit can Y- ah a man or woman can operate spirit It is a very controlling manipulated manipulating spirit. It seeks itself seeking They will do anything. And everything they prey on your weaknesses like they're very calculated. They will do anything everything in order to get their way. It has to be their way. I'm tell you some people were to highway or seriously some people that aren't even in in the church were saved operate in the spirit. You so But I could go on and on about this year. The bill spirit but buying started Let's see early twenties twenties What's interesting is it was my friend's mom? I'm even nervous saying that. I hope she never hears this. We're not friends anymore but still aw we were friends in high school and over her house and things like that but I never really noticed anything to off about her mom Other than like we're teenagers. She's a mom. You know whatever right as I got older my early twenties you know I was live in a very very worldly life at their during the most and at one of my just like you stated vulnerable moments and it seems like that's when they they can sense that the reason yeah and they just they just prey on you at them on you when your phone number Yes one of my most vulnerable moments of she popped out popped up at my house one day out of the blue and she asks me to She was starting a church her and her husband and she wanted me me to be in charge of the daycare because I had background childcare so I was like okay the Lord. Maybe this is a sign right. Yeah I hadn't been in my word. I hadn't been praying. I hadn't been spending any time. This other fine yes. This is a sign to get me out of my worldly way it brings me back to. Christ that's what I've done so I started there the beginning. It was fine I would just show up. Take care of the kids. Teach Them Bible stories. Talk a little bit with the family afterwards can go home will well I had a best friend at the time who still my best friend today and she ended up. This lady ended up meeting my best friend. I think she's also also like a restaurant eating out or something and she just became fascinated by my best friend and I believe it was at that moment she started plotting right the ability. I'm telling you they are very calculated insult and saw my best friend was going through her own situation where she was also very vulnerable for so she kind of got dragged into this mess as well so we all started going to the church. So it's my friend who Her mom is the spiritual leader. My Best S. friend. Who now was going to this church in this myself So we go to this church in mind you acid trips. We would all sit around at the table in gossip about people that should have been a first sign. I'm in my early twenties. I don't know much I'm still a babe. Christ you know not thinking too much about it and then we started seeing. She's doing all all this crazy stuff and I mean she's talking about demons all the time talking about had a cast the mouth and stuff okay. I know there's something Jesus Christ did but you're talking to babies us in Christ right now. You're giving US books on Demon. We need to go deer hunting. Yes ma'am we need to know every demon so we'll know what we're dealing with. Listen I I was a little traumatized at this point. I'm like okay. The issue started controlling trying to control every area of our lives. Like for instance. I I had a child with my boyfriend at the time. He's my husband now. We were not married but we were living together. is so. She told me that I I needed to move out because we weren't married. And my little Sassy self you know. I came back with subscription said well the sand is not in the living together. It's in the sex and guess we're having sex so I'm sending That made her mad. She didn't have a comeback. Then but I think the following Sunday she came she was prepared. Oh she I think she thought about it all week and she took me into a room with my best friend and her daughter at the time and she told me that if I have sex she said you can stay in the house with him but if you have sex with him you will see your daughter in a casket left not in our review named Jesus right now. That's what she told me. And that's another thing that these people do they use fear tactics that you to do when the New Year constantly you have to be used so mind you. My daughter at the time is around three. I'm in my early twenties. I am completely league devastated. I went home told my boyfriend. Look if we're not married. I'm leaving you. I moved out of the House that day I I did. I moved back in with my mom and step dad and I think within that week my husband's like okay earn my boyfriend's like this is ridiculous. Let's get married. Yeah Mary I did something that came out of it but that was just one of the things she did to me Not only that She started orchestrating strating the marriages divorces of her children and so Now this started happening afterwards. While I was there she was still trying to control. will her kids life. Anybody in the Church get anybody in the Church of the Lower Tommy. She took two strangers if they had the Lord told me right. Now that you two you need to get married right now now or else or else you'll die that's the same thing to death. And they got married. They got married right in there. Dan Dan which other from Adam. Yes do you know. If they're still married they were but he passed away unfortunately unfortunately he had a heart attack and PAC man right She's yes they got married right in there but she was always doing stuff like this and You know that's still feels weird. I was like this woman. It is crazy but the icing on the cake because for me I always struggle with wanting to please people right that had been my trouble over God which we know is not it. You know what we should be doing But so sh- the Lord new. I feel like the Lord allowed this particular thing to happen because he knew how to get. Let me so once again. She took myself my best friend and her daughter into a room and she kind of orchestrated a A fight between us I started saying. Are you talking behind their backs. It was me was all pointed at me. I'm talking behind their back. He was trying to get you out the pictures. She wanted to be out the picture because because she wanted my best friend. It'd be best friend's daughter. She's like she she does this. She picks their friends their spouses. Everything this is she. She's controlling trolling. This is what she does and I said well this lady you know I was. I was frantic at the time I was like no because you know I was devastated. I don't want my friends thing and I was talking batum but she was like yes you were you were. They believed her. I was in tears. I ran out of the house and never looked back. Come to find out after the facts are this crazy stuff started going on with all the members. I mean something crazy all with every member even the people who were so call how quote unquote elders of the church was controlling guessing to see total person. She told one of the elders that she could no longer wear blue. Where can I? Don't yes office. Is that you use got the Lord told me that you can no longer wear blue. The Laura told me or they would say the Lord told me or that's it's not God's will for your life will for your life there. It got to the point where I I was like. Lord is she bose's I mean. Who is this lady that you always speaking to and I'm not here from you like this zone seriously? I was like what is going on but she was lying. I know that now didn't know that. Thin as a babe in Christ so she did so many detestable testable things to the members of her church. and you know I I don't WANNA put everybody else's business out there I just want to talk about what she done to me and But it gotten to the point where I found out afterwards through prayer that she was heavily involved in witchcraft. Why don't even that? That does not surprise me exactly in it. It doesn't surprise me either. The strange thing about it is that she would always talk about her. Mom was a witch and how each yes but she chose Christ instead films. Yes become the find out. She was still. She was doing the same things she it was on exact same things and then I started noticing. Her husband was the pastor of the church but he never had a say had no say she he controlled everything down to the means conference. They had a man's conference and was strictly supposed to be men and they had a in the the hustle site we have a guest Speaker coming guess who showed up. She did she was the guest speaker girl. I was told I heard that I was done. I was on. I said okay. This is crazy was everywhere. Yes Oh this this is this was crazy to me so After I got married area of course it was my husband and myself My best friend and her husband and Her daughter The lady's daughter and her husband. We all planned the trip to go to Vegas for my birthday why she invited herself. You're kidding. She invited herself by herself. Not Her husband husband just her kid because she wanted to come in control. Everything is see what was going on see. It was so bizarre rolling leaders. What is up with that? They want to control the she. She came Oh told me that she came. She came in she came and she gambled the the whole time. She gambled the whole time and she lost her money and issue told us that the Lord told her that you guys have ever come back to Vegas no she can never come back to her l.. She'll die it's the something was wrong like I can't even put into words this weird the spirit on this lady lady but seriously after I left. Yeah after I left in it. What's so funny? You're talking about your husband at the time who never. I wanted to go back to the church. My husband never went went there. He refused remember. No no he was just like what did just feel right and he knew them too because the team went to high school with us too he was like no. Just something's not right. I don't WANNA go And Yeah he never went and he would tell me to stop going to but I went because my friends were going. Yeah even WanNa feel like the out. Fighter is the outcast. But she did what she said out to do. I I stopped being friends with my best friend. We stopped being friends in her and the leaders daughter became friends really close friends plus what she wanted. Yep Yep and they will talk about me. She would tell them that. I was out drinking all the time and doing God knows what so yeah it it was a mess and it wasn't until years later that When she orchestrated the divorce of her daughter and her daughter's husband that my best friend in her husband left the Church Church and then we reconnected and they started telling me their stories and it was? It was crazier than what I'd ever experienced. Then everyone else started to open up and share. They went through People their lives most most people left on the only people they were able to get in there were new people and I think at one point it was just just her family. That was going. Yeah but they're still operating they. I think they still have you know what no no I think. They closed down the church. Oh Hollywood that any calls on the church. Church is like that around. We don't but yeah. That was my story of I. I've actually had it three not so good experience. That one was the worst for me Because I was very personally involved in after that I just I was crushed. I'll site site. Lower like what I dabble gods like. Lord what did you do to me like. How could you get me involved in this and then do this to me? And that was the beginning of my journey. Any outside of church in really experiencing getting to know God and that's when I grew the most it was outside of outside of church yet. Amazing yes yes. It was outside of Church. I wouldn't go to church until years later and so so tell us So after that got you. How long wasn't until you started going to a new church what what happened after that because this happened years ago? Yeah no that you do keep going to church later after that but that today are you going to church. No you slay no today. I'm not disagreeing. You know I tried okay so after to that incident. It was years later before I joined. I guess I do in the Bible study. It was a Bible study in some people's homes that in really workout as this. Well I was a little more aware of what to look for now since my first experience so I knew that wasn't for me so I kinda got out of doubt outlines that quick that quick early and then the next time I will go to church. I wouldn't join you know I didn't really get involved. I would just go here. Disarming go home didn't really get to know the people you know I was guarded. I was guarded And the aim just recently. I started going to another church Maybe two years ago But that just fell. Apart in June the whole church just fell apart because of some scandal the leadership and devastating. When you told me about that you you're thinking finally found a new church that seems to be legit then here? We go and she when she told me about the church. I even visited myself and my husband and my family and I liked it you know. I thought he was okay. My husband was like nope the spirit of disarming. He's I know we're not coming here again. Knows that you think no no and I was like Oh you know. I'm not gonNA argue with him. I was just like okay. Well if he feels something is not right then he something must not be right but I just thought well. Maybe it's just not a church for us you know and So when to marry told me about what happened I was saying no I mean. Do you feel comfortable sharing what what happened. Just yes or I just I really don't I can say said. There was a huge scandal involving the pastor his assistant and his wife. That's as far as I'm going to go. I I don't even WanNa get into gear. Yeah yeah because nothing was really confirmed so all I I noticed the whole church fell apart. There is not a church anymore and after that I just I just have no desire to find another church challenge. I can't say if that's good or bad I just know that's where I'm at right now. So were you when that happened where you like. Oh here we go again. We're just avid stated or was it a shocking. As first time or 'cause you know like for me speaking for myself when I hear stuff like that happening church right now because because I've experienced like already like multiple experiences with UH leadership in the church this appointing our members unfortunately unfortunately not let me clarify. I think we should clarify that before that. You know these episodes or not to bash the church because there are some wonderful churches out here and there are some great raitment got out there and women. Yes all right. There are great men and women got out there but unfortunately there are some who take advantage of there are members which is not high. Should be so for me. The first few times I was really hurt. You know I've recovered great which is awesome takes a long longtime to heal from experiences like that are but now when I hear Oh this happened civil so church? It shouldn't be that that way but I am never shocked anymore because either I'm just like Oh okay people that aren't you surprised now. Now it's funny because I'm never shocked either and with this particular situation. I wasn't even devastated. I was disappointed and I was very sad. Bad for the people involved Yeah that's where I was and and for the people who had really gave themselves in their church. I guess what it's like to give your all as you know. They were crushed they still are you know in and I and I hate that for them. I I hate that for them and I'm hoping that And I know they've got reel God will do the same thing that he did for us like you said. God's He's searched me out he was like no daughter daughter. This is not me. You know this. This doesn't represent me. God is good all the time everything that God is good. It's what I want people to know. He is not out to hurt or to devastate or to. You know none of that. That's not what he does for his children. He is life he builds us up. You know what I mean He's a good God art so he had to. He had to show me he had to show me that and he showed me that. Once I left the church I I will say this. I'm not opposed to going attending church attending church again. I'm not opposed. This was this was my question. Would you still go to church today. I do not after that situation. The last situation just happened this summer. I am not looking or anything but I'm not opposed to Lord said Hey I need to go oh here fellowship used your gifts here in this place. That's exactly what I'm going to do but yeah I. I don't have a church home as of right now. I can just imagine it does take time to kind of process what happened just happened this the summer. If I was in your shoes I would also be a little bit. I mean you don't want to rush to the next church because at the end of the day. Hey as long as you're still keeping that commitment to guys who still have that relationship and we all know that that's what's more important no matter what people try to say EH and We're not trying to take from church because we do understand that fellowship is important and But there comes a time where church just may be an option for you based on what you've been through and that's okay and just because you're not there now doesn't mean that you won't be a part of a church. You know what I mean. I don't feel like that. Sinn option is not on the table for me so Yeah just has to be the right one. You don't want to just go to go and you know you go where you exactly. That's what's important to me. Listen I am not trying to get traumatized anymore. Pastors have the traumatize me together. But yeah I mean for me. I still go to church inch but I feel like I do it more for my kids. Yes because I want them to have the same experience that I had well not the bad let me. Oh you let me clarify that but growing up. When I grew up in Europe we you know we had a great great church in France and I have fond memories stories of the Church that I grew up in in Paris? It was just so souls I of course I was child so there may have been things that happen behind closed stories that my parents never told us you know in a church because my parents were serving in ministry since before I was born so I grew up in I. It was a great great experience so it was a drastic change from the church in Paris to their Church that my dad started pastoring here in in the states who is too drastic so the following members that have our Detroit. There's just gonNA keep Berea and there was a community was like a family and Unfortunately we don't see that a lot today in churches we we just don't and I know I've had bad experiences in church but I don't WanNa take that away from my kids and my kids have reached the age where they want to go to church and excited ask me. Oh we're going to church there. S A lot of questions about Jesus and God and just Christianity Hannity. They're curious to know how all this stuff works and so I don't WanNa take that away from them. Experience of fellowship at Church So yeah but me personally Sort of like you know on the whole thing because yeah ah okay. One thing that I've noticed that nowadays are in a lot of churches were that it would become so was what I'm looking for his so I don't WanNa say fake but it's like it's a it's in the word is more like a sucker show. You know a lot of churches nowadays. It's more of like it's not antic anymore at Sacramento. And it's like I know what you were just trying to draw people. And we WANNA get the millennials. The millennials Marines. You know it's all about and so now. You get the millennials in you. Get the baby Christian. This is a problem that I see. So you get the baby Christians in a church. The millennials that you you're looking for and then at the same time you have people who've been at your church for maybe ten years and now they're not really you know they're giving and giving and doing all the service but they're not really being fed or they're not really feel that they don't feel like the church is helping them to grow. Oh Oh they felt like they have reached a high potential that they can't in this church because now the churches catering to only be Christians and they're forgetting about members suv been there and so what happens then. Is the members feel like. Oh well there's nothing here for me anymore. So they go onto the next church or they just stopped going to church altogether. So that's one problem that I see a lot that letter. Leadership leaders and church are so focused on like how. How can the millennials MIA? How do we get them in? I what do we do what we have to continue to perform for them for them to keep coming to keep seeing. That's a burden yeah. That's a burning burning complaining on yourself to have to keep entertaining people to come to church. That is not what brings people to tha that. What brings people to God? Is the spirit of I've got. That's what you should be giving people it is the spirit of God in the goodness of God that brings man to repentance. That's what the word says. So that's that's what we should be showing people who got is. He should be shining through us. I'm I shouldn't have you know I mean listen I'm not downing owning churches. Who have it but we have to have the latest coffee shops? We have to. Have you know the the best music have to all those show lights send come on for what. And there's like a a look that they want to the members to look like people who singing on stage and you know like a lot of churches there really really think about all these things. There's a book that I'm reading Cau- this is. My Body at the author is Cameron. Forgot her last name but anyway just randomly came across it at the library and she used to be a worship leader at a big mega church in Houston. Texas doesn't seem to church coach. But it's a memorial Experience You know with that deals with feminism with Christianity and also just talks about and it really makes you think because you think about de back in the business of mega churches and that goes in and she talks about how she had to look a certain way even though she was older but she had two younger because they want to track the millennial and then want her to want her to to to relate to them and they just just all the stuff that we don't think about when we go to church and a lot of people who these megachurches and they're attracted to it and I don't think how a lot of these churches are really carefully planned out from from the people onstage to every single word being spoken up there. Everything is literally planned planned out. And that's where I feel like it doesn't give a chance a chance for the spirit of God to beard. That's right I work at one hundred percent and then what we do. Because we're not really we really trying to get people saved and delivered and healed or trying to feel seats because then you know okay so you feel for all three services and then okay. Now we're opening a new church over here in this location. Guess what most probably most of those people sitting sitting in that audience is suffering from anxiety or suffering from something depression life stuff. Yes they're hurting. They're hurting and we're not stopping. You know talk to address these issues. Where we're trying to entertain we re trying to entertain it? We just wanted to make people feel better like you know but we don't want to really dig in an address. The big issues the going issues we could go on and on. Oh Yeah we really couldn't man from stuff so we don't have the church now. We have the open conversation. I mean you didn't talking to to people who you know like rubbing to try to so he's talking to two men and unfortunately that is how a lot of us are a lot of grew up in church and were open our eyes and we're seeing. Oh look at what we grew up in. And we're like seeing what's really happening changes that needs to be made now. The problem here is when you have leadership in those churches who refused to make you know they don't WanNa take Constructive criticism and they're not open to change and they're not open to you know really digging into seeing what's the problem. Why are are people leaving the church? Why aren't millennials the same people you're trying to attract? Why are they leaving because you may attract them? Are you keeping them. Why why do you have a hi turn turnaround turnover? Whatever the tournaments you know like? Why is this happening because back? Danny like people being church for years but out outs and I think part of has has to do with us really opening is and not being blind to the truth. We know what's really going on and and we speak up when we see we don't want no part of it. That's why you have a lot of these churches really leaving because we're not taking any BS anymore. Well listen. They're trying to bring back with Kong gays Sunday service. Oh No let's not even go. I got something to say but I won't do it. That's not the not today. That's another shell. That's another show. Yeah that's a good topic actually have a lot to say about that. Do not be fooled people. So I guess we're today so I love how you're sort of in line. Let's say and that was not even done so but there's more of course saving for the memoir you got to have two people have to buy the book and every now and then we'll just drop a few F few more conversations about this We wanted to definitely introduced this topic Because we talk I talk about it a lot so I of course I have to talk about it on the finance so we talk about it so if you guys want to hear hear more about this topic and you feel like there's more that we could be addressing let us know I mean we're open and our goal is also to have some guests here on the show To talk about how to recover from you know maybe church hurt emotionally. Maybe you have anxiety or you're depressed ask. Those are very important things that the church doesn't talk about a lot so we we want to have guests to talk about that with us. So look for is that in the future. Awesome stuff guys. I hope you have a happy holidays. And we'll see you back here next week on a show make sure your subscribe to our show and rates and share and thank you so much. Thank you guys bye.