Ep 054 - Author - The Operating System of Society with Hannibal Tabu
Welcome back to the get. A grip on life podcast on today's show hannibal taboo can be a fun talk before i talked to him. I'm gonna talk to you about starting your own podcast. Podcast are starting creating your own digital media. If you wanna do that go to get a grip studios dot com baby. That's getting ripped. Studios dot com welcome to the get a grip on life podcast hannibal. Thank you for having me get. You know what's interesting. I actually have been into rockford illinois got. I'm so sorry for you rough me and cheap trick or probably the only things that came out of yeah well. You know what's funny about it. I was just traveling around doing sales and i ended up in rockford then. I saw your profile like rockford interesting. I mean how many people would start off saying yeah. I've been to rockford do so what haven't you haven't you done hannibal. I mean this. This is a career here. This is a career man. I try to stay busy. Yes sir i. I've done a wide number of things things a large number of disciplines so i have tried to keep busy because for me all basically the same thing it's about conveying a message then message being <hes> getting a thought from one person to the next and making sure it connects and making sure it's understood in comprehended. That's really what everything i've done in. My career has been about so for me. It's all kind kind of the same thing. It's just you know people see differently. You know it's funny because i look at your your bio here and see so many different things move in lots of the different companies like you know recog- name recognizable companies companies that most people would know i see show business. You know how exciting i'm wondering. Are you that mostly multi-facetted or do you just get bored a little bit hannibal and you wanna try something you wanna try right at your message out in a new medium. Is that what it is. Why not booth there's a there's definitely elements of both in that regard because was one of the things industries changed a lot with both the digital revolution that allow things that has happened so if i said oh well i'm a journalist and this is all element. Do i would be broke now. Oh if i've got this writing thing going on in because i did allow poetry and all i'm gonna do is poetry. Sorry then i'd be broke so i follow the market and i follow my interests and one of my friends has all of my hobbies ended up making me money so you you know it's like i started working in for example poetry you know coming out of college and then all of a sudden. I'm in all these anthologies or start talking about. Oh well well. Maybe we'll start doing combat reviews with some friends and then all of a sudden. I'm getting paid for it and these things are a natural progression. Come from both high quality work and from being ready whether it opportunities presented so that's interesting because that's what an entrepreneur does. I believe so yes sir right right. It's like i. I you gauge in something so there's people out there that are hobbyists and there's nothing wrong with hobbies is that but the problem with hobbies is they take your time in your money and the fulfillment the fulfilment comes from the <hes> the passing of time at something in which you become better at is that fair right would agree that yeah but the professional says okay but i want to get paid yes i. I do have a very i grew up in memphis. I was born in rockford by growth in memphis and there's a very <hes> the hustle metality is not very far for many people there so i grew up with the idea enjoying myself but still making sure that it was going to be taking care of business at the end of the day and that's what i've i've really had to do. I i saw opportunities like oh. I see this happening and you'd need this and i can do this so you may as well just pay me for it and lots of times people will yeah okay that checks out. I think a lot of people want to pay for stuff. You know it's like if you don't pay for something. It has no value by definition. It's also more convenient and this is one of the things that we were apple. Capitalize on this. It was like we could let you figure out how to go to napster and download things things yada yada or you can. Just pay me a dollar for this on that. You want right now. It's like oh. It's only a dollar or i'll pay for that right now. I'm getting and now they've got a multi million million if not multi billion dollar business model built upon that that did not exist a few decades ago for sure and if i if i ask you about how you go about the conversation a lot of people don't know how to ask for money. You know what i'm saying. They don't know how to have those conversations and if somebody's listening to you to this and you're an experienced businessman. How does that that you so you're you're. You're in recognizing a trend. Let's talk about rap pages or america online. You ooh los angeles sentinel lower spinner racks speak the source all these great magazine that you were a journalist for some of which we think are no longer around many any of which are now no longer right. How is it that you know you notice that for example at a magazine wants <music> content. You have a message. How does that conversation starters connections in the business. Everybody knows hannibal taboo or what is it starts with connections deductions. Where is it starts with connection so with for example rapid. I was working as an intern at the los angeles sentiment which is a job. I got out of college and my editor. There was an editor at rampages and she loved my work ethic. She saw that she would give me an osama now would knock it out and it would never be any problem and that sort would've reliability was valuable to her so when she's talking to her friends she molester who was the editor <unk> time was like all these freelancers always disappearing on me. She's like you need. Hannibal hannibal's never disappeared head was always showing up on time. She does like let me give them a try. I come in again. Knock it out of the park boom boom boom so oh it's getting to know the right people in getting to have the right access to things as well but it's also being reliable and being dependable when you show up to do something i am but more importantly for me when i'm starting fresh conversation with somebody. It's about making sure that i propose something to them. That is a win win for both of us uh-huh interesting. If i say for example aspen comics is a perfect example they had all these characters and they had all this legacy and i said well. Hey you know i'm. I'm a fairly smart guy. I have no idea what these characters are about. If you had a single guidebook that explained all the characters to people you can sell that pretty much forever and then people could have jumping on point for your characters that is a good idea here have some money and were interesting so when you when you're when you're having these conversations you're actually putting yourself into the other person's shoes in terms of recognizing igniting a need that they have and it just outlining that you can fill that need yes sir and then when you're done that you behave like a professional absolutely absolutely yes. Sir like that sounds like a pretty easy recipe for success. The recipes easy the making the recipe is now yeah. There's a lot of a lot of sleepless nights my wife please go to bed so yeah. There's a lot of a uphill grind in terms of actually doing the work. Being a professional is a level of effort that unfortunately many people don't elevate themselves yourselves to yes if your choice. It's a choice. It's a choice but it's a craft. It can be developed anybody talent. They say you can't teach talent or you can't teach quickness but what you can't teach. This is a work ethic your learn oh you know if i do this in a repeatable professional clean gene way than i can get the same results. That's almost a scientific approach to it and if you do that then yeah. The red lights at the recipe itself is not very difficult. Just you have to keep pushing it. It's not it's not something where you can. Oh what's the line. There's one of my favorite lines like the sun doesn't take days off. So why am i gonna take a day off yeah. You know what's interesting about that too so i'm five foot six and a half seven five whatever i'm not going to be center in the n._b._a. So true like no matter how hard i try you know i'm not that's never going to happen but if you're realistic in what you're trying to achieve so if somebody takes a look and says you know what a you know i want to be a poet. Guess what you can't sit down the next day and be a poet you you have to do with the craft for a long time. I actually think that <hes> you know if somebody's attracted to that art. There's gonna be some natural talent there. They're gonna and a half but they're going to have to work at it for a long time. A music is another example love. This the overnight super the overnight star was five years in the making you know and you see this all over and over again you know you find out that a musician or whoever actually spent their entire childhood learning different instruments but then it just seemed like they came out of nowhere and we're amazing when you're i wanna talk to you a little bit about some of these large corporations since that you worked for <hes> okay. Were they contract positions. Did you take on a project for them. <hes> different ones are different contract. I know quicken dot com. Tom was like they needed somebody who knew h._t._m._l. To come in and knocked something out that you know either somebody was there before and screwed it up. I don't know if people that screw up things. I i would never get paid but i came in for one day. Thing knocked out never had any problems with and moved on and forgot about. It was rogue gunslinger situation on the other dan when i was at say for instance kaiser permanente that was like a fulltime job i was there. I had benefits that went on company retreats. I did all kinds of shenanigans like that. So what what <hes> what i always did for myself was i made myself available and in a way that was clear i worked with the agency. That's now called awkward. <hes> that's oh i think national company and back when i was with them at first they were called mek temps and web staff because there was we're all new digital stuff ooh fancy the and <hes> they would find people who had as they say a particular set of skills and they would offer them to companies so they would they would be the bad guy and asking for money so i didn't have to i would just show up be amazing and get paid and call today that was both contract contract and employees work. I was happy to do both. I was like sam jackson not very many checks. I've turned down thus far and it seemed to i'm. I'm comfortable in those environments because a lot of times people get those environments meetings and the stress and so forth even the most stressful thing i was that was disney channel which like you know like people will. I literally the one of my coworkers. Every day. He went to lunch and head to martinez is a i've been here for two years and bad next year. It'll be three martini because that's what he had to do to get through every day but in those environments it's just about finding being the vulnerabilities finding. Where's the mead. Where's this happening. What's going on debt needs to happen and that can go well disney channel for example apple. I was on a tuesday morning. The business channel a business <hes> vice president vice-president whole business unit. Call me up on a conference call in front of like eight thousand people nines. He says this is hannibal. Hannibal goes back on tata's redesigned. It'd been stalled for a year even what we gave them a content management system at the last last minute. He didn't even blink and we're still on there was still on that was tuesday thursday. Her boss michael eisner's email six thousand. Y'all got to go worldwide. I was was number eight on friday. My boss is number ten on monday and that had nothing to do with our work. Somehow wow who so as a poet i studied english lit substantially in in university and i've always been interested in poetry. What is the theme of your poetry autry. What i saw my poetry as was sh sh taking the light of the world shining through very specific prison so if you take a prison sanit in front of a flashlight you'll see a different thing than if you said it from black light for example and i was a very specific set of perspectives based upon my upbringing based upon my cultural background based upon details of an idiosyncratic <unk> idiosyncrasies of my own personality and that perspective presents a different way to look at things and my poetry did a lot of that so for example. I remember one of my favorite poems. The opening line was <hes> over the last twenty years. I've had a series of apocalyptic dreams. Some of them went on to become president and and that sort of perspective perspective is not what you would get from say for instance some of my classmates u._s._c. in the poetry program not what you would even get from some of the people who worked with me at the world stage writer's workshop in lamar park. I had various specific blending of influences that creates a specific perspective do you. What is your background ground well. I grew up in memphis as i said i <hes> come from unexciting family my sisters because they work in government the bachelor not to go into details about our dead but <hes> i come from an exciting family. That didn't exactly mesh very well so i was raised by my great aunt and uncle they had grown up in the depression. They had grown up under segregation. They had grown up in significantly hard times that i will ever see and they they conveyed the idea of hard work and of ownership and of getting things done even in the face of overwhelming opposition sure and and that was really you know built into my d._n._a. At a very early age however also built into that was in nineteen seventy seven even my mother in one of the last things we did together before i went with my great aunt knuckle took me to go see star wars in theaters forty times we we're really into it and the possibility of being stuck in some podunk nowhere place and then going off and finding as they say a larger roger world was enormously seductive to me so those twin influences have driven a lot of the things you familiar with langston hughes quite assert is he. The greatest africa african american poet poet. Is he the greatest african american port. That's that's a. That's a tough fight win. I'm doing the swiss sweet sixteen bracket in my head because he was a jazz musician but they take his jazz lurks. I studied his jazz lyrics and they actually take his jazz lyrics and they read it as poetry and then he wrote that poem and excuse me on. I'm not using words that amusing langston where it's the negro speaks of rivers is such a wonderful poem. I couldn't be one of the greatest poems i've ever read in my life and eight. I'm doing well okay. That's a good question. There's not a lot of people that would know. Langston hughes unfortunately if you say see that he's not a household name but certainly one of the greats of of all time how do you so you're you're great aunt and uncle experience the jim crow law absolutely and then in their lifetime they went through the transition of the jim crow to know jim crow what what what what what message would they have to us today. The message that they would have particularly migrant migrant was much. She was a source sources of unconditional love. I hope and positivity for lots of things my neck. He was a very stern man it. It was a very serious man but in his is the differences between his upbringing and the modern day especially because he saw the transition during that's really radical sixties periods in adult was then adult he was reading the newspapers yeah he was in his forties by then thirties late thirties early forties by then <hes> and he would say he was like the hood got put away but that doesn't mean the people changed. I know the the the same people who made the laws that made that happen. We're still in power. Just you know they were like oh. We're nice now. How are you really going to believe that. I'm like no perfect example one of the life lessons he gave me when i was about seven he called me and he said boy yeah. I literally thought my name was boy until like i was almost twelve. He said well come over here and sit on my lap all right. Whatever is what came atlanta. Push me off of the floor. What did you like. Don't trust anybody boy. Even you not even me. I said okay i forgot about week later. He calls me and he says you need to give you allow us come so i was like oh allowance. Iranian push off did not tell you not to trust nobody about ten days later. He calls me like what's this report cardboard. Come over here so in my lab. I'm like i'll stand. He's like now you're learning and that was that was one of the most central lesson i remember taking from so i would say he would. I'm here to speak french but he was a pool shots. Pula meme shows the more things change the more they stay the same and arcnord presidential administration would definitely be testament to his thoughts there. Can i ask you a little bit more about this topic. I'm canadian and her and i've been traveling a lot to the states and there's tempstar. I love united states. I love the u._s. I love the u._s. People but i'll tell as something there's a difference between black people who live in toronto. That's the right word. Some people get mad at me when i say that but it's not uncommon to say that in in in toronto but they're not they're not african americans their of caribbean or african descent okay so they're not they're. Not you know the it's a different culture. That's the better it is actually an. I think that a lot of people in toronto think that the caribbean toronto oh culture is the same as african american culture and i think one of the reasons why kawhi leonard left the toronto raptors and a lot of basketball players. I don't like toronto is because their culture is not present there. Is that a fair statement. It is fair as interesting misnomer because i just i'm writing a project right now. Orlando judah with bob marley's family where we talk a lot about <hes> the what they call the maroons nova scotia the first time sure that a large african <hes> group was brought to new canada and the there was a greater focus on <hes> the programming of especially because because of the larger numbers of african people here there was a focus on programming away from the cultures that had gone before so the things that the things that we were i used to in african cultures that you'll find in jamaica the things that you'll find even in caribbean culture in england and then in paris dabbed onto now and so on so forth dr are much closer to what you would see in an african culture because i was able to visit ghana and i was able to visit nigeria in places like that to <hes> then you would see here because because there's been less effort put into stripping away that cultural underpinning nah if somebody from jamaica comes to the united united states. They're gonna have a very different cultural framework because they're going to have a history of rebellion. They're going to have a history of we stood up against a spanish. We stood up against the english for eighty three years of guerilla warfare when in canada for example when they're like when they tricked the maroons and ship them to nova scotia they immediately leave started rebelling and there were so intent about it and there was not the same kind of societal pressure to purge that sense of them mm-hmm that it was ultimately just easier to look. Would you send you back to sierra leone. It's fine it's fine. That is a drastic difference in what happened happen here. <hes> you will see if you've seen <hes> films like twelve years a slave labor or <hes> roots the specific things that were done to africans in the united states to deprogrammed dehumanize and and change the way that they think about things more more recent scientists. We talked about the inheritance harrisons of bessemer thing that can even be passed down through d._n._a. Even if you didn't experience it that you can see the trauma that happened generations back to people in people's d._n._a. Markers now so yeah it is it is a difference for me. I know what am i friends. Frank williams was editor at the source he lived in toronto for a number years loved it in toronto to freaking cold for him though and he's york so for me you know that's that's i had a conversation that a comic con where <hes> this one friend of mine says you're too smart to live in america. You need to come live in candidate. Go college. Free is going to be medicine. I'm like all right. I i hear your arguments and they're valid arguments but was temperature at your house on december twelfth churn light. It was like five sixty. I'm like it was seventy. One degrees the house. I'm not going anywhere whether matters men for sure it definitely is a factor people in minnesota have the same issue. It's freezing minnesota right my family's all oh from detroit and wisconsin so i've had my share of snow for my life. Does your poetry reflect any of the struggle the ongoing struggle of the civil rights movement today an hour making progress on that front or are we are we don't wanna sense becoming doing more segregated and waste but using facebook and and these digital tools again i would say why not both we my my poetry. Autry definitely reflects the struggle for freedom for self-determination for all people to be able to play on a level field field. There's no significant advantage that i'm seeking over anybody. Else's no <hes> there's no. I'm not looking for something. I don't feel visit owed or what have you but in that we have a polarized greatly as society both due to influences from within from what else but when you have lobbyists like the coke brothers who've spent millions of dollars making sure that education gets weakened in kansas and oklahoma and so and so for that changes the electorate that changes the people who are elected that for james the laws <hes> likewise when you see the evidence of the russian bought farms who spend all day trying to influence american opinion through social media which is a weaponising of information which is brand new to the century that we've never seen anything keeping like that for these sorts of goes way beyond reverse propaganda like the reverse propaganda that we had in the sixties and seventies with russia and that now it's sophisticated. It's indistinguishable from news. In a way or whatever it is it is it isn't it really is because it's is changing the way people think very much so and that sort of with the advent of social media which does something through the dopamine receptors in our heads but you got a notification check the notification. There's lou good feeling checking the middle. Forget social media has that effect on people at least according to the research avenue able to see and in doing so if people get into these echo chambers because all algorithms will guide you towards people who think like you think then and that will limit your ability to see other perspectives to experience the two thousand ten census said that more than sixty percent of the white people in the united states have no interaction with a person of color in average week. Yes it's incredible how segregated it is the united states it really is. I was in durham carolina durham north carolina or cellular in durham north carolina and where i was at the hotel i mean there was there was some i'm african americans that work there and we're going there and all that but every single restaurant or club we went to was like ninety nine percent white people people okay and canadian and from toronto so we don't have this kind of like toronto's very mixed everywhere. You go especially downtown. There's people from everywhere in the world asian middle eastern african american latino everything everyone just mix mixed much more mixed. Everyone makes it but it's much more mixed. I want around this corner. We walk down the street and we were and there was this nightclub. Let's go into that nightclub. Walk up to the front door. There's a bouncer at the front door. Happens is to be an african american guy. That's not on dec. At any club right you know big guy and i are. He's covering the bar. I'm like hey man. We're going to go in. It's me and my friend. He's also white boy sure you wanna go in there. I'm like yeah. It's an open. He's like he had like. I'm not going to try to imitate his accent but he had a real anyway so he said well okay. Go in. We paid our ten dollars. We walk in and this has never happened to me before. Okay first time this ever happened to me but i'm sure it happened to african-americans all the time i walked into a room and there was probably probably three hundred black people and no white people and it was like for the first time in my life life. I was like whoa. I've never experienced this before right and nobody really cared we weren't noticed or they didn't really give scrapped partying. They're having fun. They're dancing her. So what do you do when you get in that situation. My buddy looks is what are you gonna do. We gotta have a beer man. We can't walk out of here. This is just too weird to walking right eight to walk out so we went in. We ended up talking to some people we ended up having a great time and everything else but we might have been the only white people to go into that bar true. That's that's crazy to me more interesting to me because i've seen this sort of thing happened happen. In my neighborhood growing up in memphis we would every once in a while. You see like some some white people come through and they lost. They would know where they were going and my father would go well. He would say he'd have his triple maps that he loved to carry and he would show him. Here's where you are and here's where you need to go and here's what's it gonna run into and here's what you'll see here and they would go off on their way anyone think anything of it and he would come back and it was a if you're in a white neighborhood don't ever do that. You'll get killed. A black neighborhoods not the same and he's like no if i went into a white neighborhood never do that never ever came because the exact exact same thing would more likely and there was a case in in michigan actually where those motorists who had been injured in a car wreck and went to knock oughta door the door open. The guy who was african american knocked on the door white guy opened the door shot him with a shotgun like didn't even look they interact from mm-hmm. That unfortunately is not even a strange story to me. That's not even like the first time i've heard a story like that. It's like it's like it's like it's like people are not not individual human beings or something very much so there is a this is your black your white and it's like yeah. That's what you are. You're you're not hannibal taboo. You're black. That's what is and that's that's built into a lot of what has happened. In the american erkin character in the american <hes> will the united states. I don't wanna say american because there's a lot more american than the united states but the character of of a lot of people in this country because it's become so normal so regular the idea of you know if i'm walking down the street that i'm gonna see persons get clutched clutched in and i must say car doors locked and i'm like i would agree from u._s._c. I've been published. I'm not gonna steal your personally yeah. I guess so but you know i know this is this is the way the software is set up and it is just software programming and unless there's a radical reinstalling the operating system. Is the software running we. I actually story similar to that. When you told i was in over town town i wasn't i was in north miami beach and we were again. He's sales rep traveling salesman but anyway. That's a whole other conversation but we ended up getting lost and we ended up in over town miami. I don't know if you know that okay. I don't know specifically so it's like. It's like a ghetto in miami innings it the the size of it was blew my mind away. It was just blocked mile l. After mile of very poor area like you're like no grocery stores stores plaza with big parking lot where everyone goes and you buy your stuff. It was just a it was like in an urban wasteland ghouls like we were lost. Were driving. We're trying to find our way out of there. It just went on for ever how enormous this depressed area was in comparison and then so then we're driving and the and the and this is interesting. I'm gonna make this point team and you see what you think think of this. We're driving along and all of a sudden what the cop comes behind us and an african american police officer gets out of his car walks up to our car roll down the window. I'm like i'll where we speeding officer. You know we're we're canadians. We don't have we don't have an an antagonistic relationship with the police or you understand what i mean. I'm used to the my experience of police is always friendly and they're always giving me tickets for speeding here you son to slow down our listen going too fast. It's a one hundred sixty mph area. You were doing eighty five in the sixties under there you go through actions with police are never like suspicious or criminal or anything like that and so he goes like this. He's like what the hell you doing here. <hes> we're loss or yeah. You need to get the hell out of here now before. It gets yeah my okay so he's like hey. You're gonna go over there. You see that that road. You're gonna make a left. There's going to be an onramp on your right and when you get on that highway you're gonna dry for whatever and get out of here. This is not a safe place and he was concerned for our safety yup because we were white yes. That's you understand what i wasn't mean to us or racist or anything like that. He would just like you know. I don't want to be picking up your body off somewhere here later on or something like that won't do the paperwork. Yeah there you go. Isn't that dangerous like is it really. Are those areas really that well. Here's the thing i know so car. Cell chicago's basically a war zone. That's a different one but for i mean my my my brother-in-law d._j.'s all the time and it's interesting because my sister's black my brother-in-law's wyden he's like one of the best known urgent urban d._j.'s in the area and ears no problems there but <hes> there can be <hes> there can be a situational accidental things that happened for example apple i went to u._s._c. and the neighborhood around u._s._c. is not so great and it was a couple of asian students. Were sitting in a brand new b._m._w. With the the door open playing really loud music waiting for their friends to come out of the house at three o'clock in the morning now when i heard the start of this i'm like this is not going to end well right right and subsequently did not because somebody came allow who lived in neighborhood in liked the music playing like the attitude they were like yea yea and didn't show what probably seemed to the person who lived there like the right amount of respect and they're both dead now now was was that necessary no of course not but when you put a lot of firearms willy nilly around places they tend to be used most if they will work for your safety one like. I said he definitely did not what do the paperwork from. You guys getting merger second. He figured very quickly that you two were either a looking for drugs or be looking for prostitutes. You were not there for some illicit purpose sure so he was like the easiest thing for me to do is get these guys the heck out of my jurisdictions dixon's. I can deal with whatever actual problems. I'm gonna have to deal with chore. Yes and that's a fairly i mean it's not an unfair perspective to have you know if you said for example oh we're down here looking for this amazing soul food restaurant that we were told by his way but yeah but that's not what you say you so you like your goal is to be safe and i'm gonna get you to safety because that's less paperwork for me. He goes to record this. I'm gonna have to move all my life. Yeah i gotta go. I gotta get home to my wife later on. I'm not dealing with overtime with u._2. Lost connects hearing. Don't get the hell out of your boy so let me ask you just on on this path. Maybe <hes> maybe <hes> one more question about this and then onto some of your fiction. Maybe we'll get lost in it again you talking about an operating system. That's an interesting interesting. Yes that's an interesting way to or an interesting similar or metaphor for the zeitgeist of human interactions or the or the paradyne's in which we view the world right when you have. You thought much about this operating system. Have you written about it. Is it something that your is it your p._s. Assist aunts. You're going to come out and say this is what we need to they. Do tell me a little bit about that operating system. If it's something that you've thought about a lot it is something. I've thought about quite a bit. There's and this will actually segue into the renting. <hes> how that <hes> there is a there has been at least according to meyer admittedly limited studies a history a cultural literal shift towards imperialism towards colonialism towards the destruction of things for profit towards <hes> <hes> the not the needs of the few be there kleptocracy or what have you <hes> outweighing the needs of the mini which is virtually everybody else and that has are reinforced and re re intrinsic self in lots of things the reason why for example a lot of popular culture's focused around you know oh scarface okay so the bad guys is like the bad guys win and they don't face consequences and we see that all the time so these are fairly logical things happen this factored into my own work <hes> <hes> in a set of books that i'm loosely calling the context which have written two novels in it so far where the basic idea is that humanity humanity is essentially because i'm sorry that phrase it. I said oh carbon based life is a sexually transmitted disease and is not necessarily a cure but it can be controlled that win. Humanities spreads out throughout the galaxy guys like ooh humanity cooties so ooh. That's an interesting way to look at it. Actually that's that's an interesting. That's really interesting that to say you know what what's the difference catrine like. Every life form is sense interacts with its environment in a way to make its environment more conducive like immediately conducive to its current needs right and like one of the signs of intelligence wants is to be able to one of the things that makes us conscious and humidity navias the spark of god or whatever whatever belief system you have is that us humans have the ability ability to contemplate the future right. We have the ability to look down the road if we're taught and raised right look down the road and worry about a future hannibal because that's gonna be one day. I use it for as a lot. That's funny future. Hannibal is you. You just not dairying right. So how do you wanna treat that guy. Do you want him to exercise on a regular basis and get enough sleep and be healthy or do you want him to have cirrhosis of the liver and it'd be dying of lung cancer because he smoked all the way up to that right so it was like that we have the ability conceptualize and it's interesting to consider like human life as a virus paris because if we did go to other chris like what we would call pristine earth's that do us there. It would be like a disease on that place. If you were just depends on how you look at the perspective right and you could actually look at human. It's like the movement of human peoples around the world as an infection in a way especially when you see the difference between a culture that would move into place and then move live in harmony with the environment or cultural they would move in and place and build a starbucks know bulldoze down the one of my favorite stories <hes> there's actors jennifer lawrence was in hawaii filming something and she had an itch and she started rubbing rock formation and they're like ma'am. This is a sacred sacred place for the people here. This is and she's like oh really and starts rubbing but on it and laughing. That's the opposite of looking at the future. That's that's a very short-sighted perspective. That has become all too common in in the as you say zeitgeist in the operating system. It's jillian colonel well now so it's possible do software patches and you may be oh. Let me install this different app to try to work around. We're going to work around. You know. Yes still the the opera. The operating system remains what it is. Western culture remains the way it has been crafted since before the roman empire. No i think i think it's i think it's changed into something thing. I think it's changed and i mean we can set. There's all sorts of issues in order to make this argument going to have to set aside issues like civil rights and that's a huge issue but i'm going to end slavery every in other treatment of of first nations in canada and we're just going to set those issues aside but if we say that that i think what our culture has evolved to now is the creation of individual egotistical narcissists and so when you encounter an egotistical narcissist like like a donald trump would be a perfect example would come of an overt art egotists now whether or not you agree with his policies or you're a republican or democrat. I have no idea okay do not agree okay so but regardless all that what that's what he is whether you like him or not and what happ what's happening in the united states is when you encounter someone who's in our assistant what happens is you only have two options with them. You either validate their egotistical narcissism or you go into conflict with them. There's no nuance in between right right so you either you validate so half of america is in this weird eagle validation with donald trump and half of america's in conflict with donald trump and true on both sides is i think both sides not you who particularly but the people that are refusing to engage in political compromise the people that are name calling and and excluding and and refusing to come to the table to discuss import duties on carrots. Whatever like some basic issue. The united states is facing acing the country are both deeply egotistical and i think that's what our society with facebook and computers and pop culture and the kardashians and all these rubbing your butt on iraq because you're just good oh it's sacred. I'm going to work on it. You know that is such disgusting. Portrayal are so disgusting example of somebody's ego completely out out of control. It's like your ego. It's crazy to do that like if somebody tells you something sacred you immediately should respect it. You don't have to care you. Don't have to care whether about the meaning of it. You have to get into the rock. You have to respect it. Come on that's ridiculous delivery legally and when you when you add back into things that you took out when you add in the murder in the in the slavery and the bloodshed and all that blah blah blah then you look get a software that is is corrupt at the root software that has flaws that go back into the legacy code that just just a newer versions but if you look into the older version of the code. Oh wait no this this. These flaws have been here for a while. We haven't program these out. We haven't done anything to program these things out doc and that can well like it creates it creates not only these two sides ego validation and the one struggling really against it but there is a another perspective the likes of which you'll get a i remember columnist. Dr daniel said the goal was to become ungovernable to step so far outside the system that its effects. Were irrelevant to you. That goal is hindered by the conflict seeking nature nature of the current administration. They're sorts of things so for example my kids. I've got two kids. They're nine fifteen right and one of the things things that is being affected by say friends. Betsy devos is in the department of education is changes to how their education is going to be happening changes the how their education of the children around them are going to be receiving and that that affects their life in a way that they may want to be like look. I don't know what y'all crazy people doing. That'll be part of it but this starts to draw people into a fight where they didn't even wanna fight yeah. It's that polarization creates conflict. We're conflict did not exist and that and over issues that are not even something how could it be polarized over particular issue like people if you have something like education and two people care about children and they sit down at a table they can cut a deal dude if they both care or no but if they're not captured by special interest groups and what i want to ask you something jumped up at me just in while while we're talking in and so i've read a lot about chattel slavery okay well. There's a when people say everyone's descended from slaves. There's a difference between the type of slavery that brazil and america and jamaica and in haiti that happened happened and then what happened to slaves in the roman empire or if you were if you were roman empire saved more like it's like an indentured servitude irs and if they were brutal to in some way some of them are treated very brutally but it wasn't the same you were talking about this idea and the idea was that you take people from one continent you completely dehumanize them in rob them of all their cultural affinities all their archetypes all their stories stories all their idea of greatness you buffalo soldier them into a foreign land in a way and treat them like no different than you treat your livestock you sell them on platforms and bid on them as if they are i as assets as assets and this ends and then the jim crow law comes in and then are you saying that like the the operating system <hes> is still recovering or still recovering from these this chattel slavery in the those great video that went around on facebook talked about the difference between safer to virtually identical individuals one black kid named jamal who lives in one maybe over town or whatever and one it was a white kid name. I think dave was likely than woodland hills or whatever and let's say that they both have the dental accu identical test scores identical everything but what if jamal is in a crappy school that has a crappy library and crappy resources. He's gonna have a harder time applying for things then say dave would if jamal mall can't afford the fee can't afford the fees for applications for like the u._s. Fee was athlete like when i applied. It was like forty dollars but i got a fee waiver because my school school was good enough that i knew about fee waivers. Most of my friends who went to other schools will like what's a fee waiver and they ended up at community colleges. That's a difference in what happened to them. Different access to the difference in opportunity and when you factor in that whole software that spent all these years saying that these people were people like me were assets spent <music> all these years beyond that legally saying that they were second classes that they were not as good that they were taken and that they were not held in in high regard is a different sort of people based upon the color of their skin and then all of a sudden okay just kidding. I guess you guys are equal but didn't take take away any of the negative effects of all of that didn't give them any of the advantages of you know inherited wealth of inherited culture of inherited ability to see themselves in a good light that another perfect land rapper named rasa land says the diameter of your knowledge is the conference of iraq. So of all you know is over town then you're not going very far from over to most of the people i went to school with and memphis are still in memphis. Is there in crappy jobs doing crappy things in memphis because they didn't they saw star wars. Oh that's a cute movie. I need to go back in. You know figure out what we're gonna. What do i need to get the heck out of here. I need something else out. You know what's funny is that i lived in belfast northern ireland for a year and let's just you know what man it was like. I kind of blended in there. I was in noticed very often because i have that heritage. She's in me of those people's. I just kind of blended win but there's protestants and catholics like in terms of walking down the street nobody noticed me dude and there's protestants and catholics and then there's protestant stayed in catholic areas right now. This is interesting east. People are ethnically the same people <hes>. There's no racial differences. I mean maybe zero one descends from scotland in the they're all from scotland and ireland anyway so whatever they all have a shared ethnic heritage the differences religion okay so once protestant ones catholic. They're not even practicing. I mean when i lived in belfast when i lived in belfast nineteen ninety six ninety seven. I felt like it was a doctor. Dr seuss book about the south going zax in the north going zax like i talked to these people and it'd be like what the hell are you talking so you hate catholic. What are you talking about like your. This is like a dart like belfast is like a a a human example of doctors use story. The you know the <hes> <hes> the sneakers with s on there on the beaches. I the star bellied switches. I am i am dar's stars upon ours and all this. We have star belly star arbelaez teaches. It's like we make up these labels. It's a perfect example. You know what i told all those people. I said you know what you need to do. You need to get the hell out of belfast buddy and go somewhere and realize that nobody cares about this. Bullshit dr seuss crap. You guys are in running around star belly snatches ship. You know what's crazy. No it's completely belfast completely crazy now but in america you you have these visible differences okay and it's in canada to there's racism in canada to canada is not a utopian a a place of equality. I certainly think it's a lot more integrated in better particularly the city of toronto but you know you have these visible differences are we able are ase america able and are we in the west. Are we able to get over what we see in a sense and the labels that have been put into was and the messages that have been put into us. I believe as warren ellis wrote that the future is inherently a good thing and and that the possibility is absolutely. They're absolutely now whether the motivation is there. That's a completely different store. It is totally possible possible for people to change if they want to. Anybody can do can do most of the things they want to do if they're willing to put the work in fort putting that work in fort is is not a common desire it is not and while that possibility exists there is a greater societal reward in not doing that that the tribalisation of the united states into red states and blue states idea of some of them being read given the struggles of the nineteen eighties was ronald reagan fight against the soviets is very funny to me <hes> but that tribalisation is is not only rewarded did but is is is reinforced by you know the arguing heads on the television and you know the gerrymandering of your district so you you're all together so we're gonna make you all together so you vote for this way and that that will make sure that you've got these people in carson's also for all of this is is a city like i said it's all in the operating system. It's a software flaw and you know either a you're going to have to okay. Oculus wipe the drive and start from scratch in a way which is an enormous amount of work. Are you calling. Are you calling for a new republic. I believe in many ways. I'm calling for a new species because this is not looking really you know when i see the there's a story that came out of florida. That's originally where woman was shoplifting and she was running. She was caught and she started running from the security guards or whatever and research into her pants and pulled out <unk> actual feces deflategate them that was already there that was already in her pants and apparently part of her strategy. I'm like yep humanity humanity. It is not working out. I don't know about it was also will may decide to call today. I don't know i. I thought you said they put the future is inherently positive or in fairly good thing. The future is but the people here the people here okay so you know what's interesting. You said that humans will change. I actually have a big engine wouldn't they can change people will change when the benefits of change are completely obvious obvious and when the pain of staying the same exceeds the pain of change affluent so the benefits need to be obvious and also the pain of staying the same needs to still be more so if the pain is not more benefits are obvious that that doesn't mean people will change you need counteracting force of the pain of staying the same and i mean that's the polarity that's dr martin luther king versus malcolm x. right those they're like. They're like two sides of the same coin. You can't have one without the other. You can't have adolf hitler without winston churchill. They're like arch nanometer there representing the polarity of the of the of the of the human species. Are you saying that the benefits of change for white americans aren't obvious enough and that the pain is in enough for what is it that you're saying why aren't people up. I'm absolutely both of those. Things thinks that and this is interesting. When once i i saw more once i got to travel internationally overseas that the dichotomy thought patterns of the west yes the either or structure of most of our binary kind of thinking is alien to literally billions of people around the world that they have more of a both and and situation and things like we don't have to divide we can see both of these things amazon we can contain multitudes and this the first thing this dichotomy thought pattern this i apple positional system that works from our legal system to our cable news debates to you know even you know the struggles of what what do you mean the whole could be superman fly those sorts of things. These are all very conflict base. They're based in conflict which comes comes from a different cultural paradigm because from a cultural paradigm of what the west and like i said at least since the roman empire as created about conquest what about the the right of might about swords over a reason in many ways and that's unfortunate so yeah absolutely the pain is nowhere. We're near bad enough. You know if we can if this epstein guy could get through all those you know he missed some thirty four sex offender. Check ins and <hes> you know we're. We're busy with stop and frisk. We're the new york police department and that's new york the bluest of blue sure if that's that then yeah the pain is nowhere near bad enough and the benefits of definitely not clear now yeah. It's interesting you want. It's interesting that you know <hes> what martin luther king did and what change makers do regardless as to where they are whether it's a northern ireland or south africa or anywhere gandhi in india is there seems to be the introduction of change through pain what what they did it in a way that was peaceful. You know like those people took the peaceful path right. I mean they but i mean they tried to block the guy's house dr martin luther k. Somebody tried to blow up his multiple times and he was assassinated and he was assassinated. Where i grew up yeah i mean the redeemer is he who has died in his reborn but i mean like you think about. He knew that too. He knew that they would probably try to kill him. Dude that's christ ice like man. That's what christ did that's reality craze and it's a remarkable. It's more heroic than ever be and i will definitely admit at that but you know i look at statistically the examples of history where change happened much more like basketball day. They're much more like well. We see with the cake and addresses in. We're just gonna murder everybody. That's for sure that was good. That was a time when they're like yeah. This operating system is has gone. It's interesting. I asked you if you think you want a new republic because i was in france in june long story there but there was have you heard of these joel all the yellow vests. It's like france a movement in okay so it's like a visor in december. I remembered member so the we were in bordeaux and the hotel the it was expensive hotel. We were staying at we're like this is really cheap or whatever it turns out that there was a jila joan protests scheduled for you know that the day that we were checking in and <hes> what was interesting was that i didn't know this but for months before four it the julie's y'all had trashed the lobby of that hotel. Now i'm from toronto. We've had one protests when the g. twenty was in that got a little out of hand but mostly charles received peaceful place the protest. They sit around and hang out. They hold signs. They don't don't smash anything. You know what i mean. It's pretty it's pretty cool and you'll have a protest of whatever be mixed crowd or this crowd or whatever it usually things are pretty peaceful anyway so these guys started marching and there was literally french military in front of our hotel with salt rifles okay anyways i jumped out first thing i do is i gotta talk to to one of these cats so i run out. You know you already know me. I like to talk right. I'm like hey you speak english normal. Hey man you speak english. Finally on this guy speaks english and so france right now. He's told me in the fifth republic so it's been refounded five times since the french revolution and he said we want a new republic i said what are you gonna hurt i that what do you mean by that because we want to take down all of the institutions and everything the thing that runs everything and we want to reform it under something different but that's very very dangerous man. You saw what happened in the french revolution right like this is down all those institutions that the things that we've built our america upon you gonna take them all down and reform them kenny anyone even handle this mad. I would look at that and say christopher de andrea mitchell who would handle it. Mike brown would handle it is forward. Handle it. Look you know that is the danger already. You know plenty of people dying already and ah there's a line one of my friends was from south africa and he said <hes> after the changeover in apartheid <hes> people were asking uh-huh. Is it so different. He was like it didn't matter to me in a township whether or not the boot in my neck had a blackfoot inside or white foods that there was a boot on my neck so nope under those circumstances whatever you know if you're telling me that there's danger to the system changing dangerous system staying away it is because because you know there was a a seventeen year old girl killed on the ninety one freeway sunday night. You know by by police for you having an accident. She was getting out of her car and they thought they saw handguns. They shot her. She's seven america has way too many guns dude. I just okay so and stay the difference between candidate america. I'll summit for u k canada. Everyone has the right to healthcare in america. Everybody has the right to own guns checks out right candidate. You have the right to health care and you have to have a license to own a gun in in america. You have the right to have a gun but you have the opportunity to get healthcare. If you have enough money that's that's different soon at six out but i mean how come america i'm not talking. I know the right to bear arms is really against the government. It's not against each other. It's like this going back to the founding fathers and all all sort of stuff but it's just so obvious that people are shooting each other so much of the united states like police shooting people. I mean there was a guy yes. There was a guy who got in a van to three summers ago and drove down a toronto street. Killing women running over women in this van was horrible incident. The cops didn't shoot him a restaurant in the united states that is dead for sure but will oh it depends there was a story in texas about a biker gang that was doing some rowdy stuff and the police were called like four or five police cars were called out to deal with it and the bikers started getting into a fight with the cops and to the bikers guns and shot at the cops but all of them were captured alive there was the police did that fire harassing in texas which is the shooting is. The shooting is possible of american states. However conversely in almost the same county sandra bland was jailed and suspiciously died in her cell and no investigation happy sure whatever those are operating system problems and why you're here but you'll hear about a guy in the states in that ferguson missouri whatever ever oh yeah the cops the cops shot him out of self defense fourteen times like what so loaded yeah. You unloaded your pistol into his back out of self defense. That's that's currently work in the words of john. Cougar mellencamp eight that america for you and me in america is something to see baby. Yeah i mean i think it's and there's lots of wonderful things about america and america's a great force for good in the world and has lots of positive things about it but that the gun stuff is just seems to be like something that you guys gotta get a grip on and control there are challenges and and if as you say a new public would do the trick then i'm all for it. <hes> tell me about some of your books the our did you go straight these or are these. He's published under hannibal taboo of done everything under my name well. Hey on no no. I do know that didn't actually come out so yeah. Everything's money okay okay so the crown ascension and fairway and then far far away sorry i'm reading quickly and the rogue nation. What are what are these fiction books and one of the about yeah these those three books in particular are about this fictional continuity of called the context where it starts in remember. The crowd starts at eight hundred five hundred years ago and goes the final book in the series. Whenever i finished writing it is supposed to be one hundred fifty thousand years in the future and it's an all take on the development of human can and their expansion in the stars which has a lot of magical realism woven into it which has has a lot of traditional beliefs of indigenous peoples from around the world woven into it and has as i said just a different perspective on that that you that's a lot of times you wouldn't see in science fiction or speculative fiction and in doing so it's got one central character whose character who was born as an immortal she just won't die you know and she's a central figure through a lot of this story and plays through a lot of it and watching watching her development and coming into understanding of why she liked this way. Why did she have wh what is her goal. What is our purpose is one of the through lines of the books that that my wife is always like stop talking about what's going to happen. I'm sorry but i that is is a large part of what's happening so with the crowd engine it's an introduction of her and her story and what happens with her because while she's immortal she's basically to just a little bit durable and strong anybody who she falls in love with they can fly their emo- measurably strong their immune to any form of terrestrial damage there you you know her. Love literally can make them superhuman as long as she's loved him. She's not all go and the development of the story and some of her own business from her time in ancient egypt is a lot of focus that i saw far away changes the scene to it's a science fiction. <hes> a prison novel set in the world's most secure prison and the only problem with it is a person who was born in bread revolutionary who who spent his entire life trying to get in there and what he's planning to do once he gets in there <hes> so that's a really kind of a potboiler and it just it just keeps turning turning up the heat turning up the heat deal but then rogue nation is a science fiction political thrillers set in rwanda that i had to do a lottery search for that. I started out with the idea of. I wanted to make this really central galvanizing character who was a a little bit doctor doom a little bit. I mean a little bit kingpin for marvel comics and this character is just like he's a force of nature and when he just moves through things he just he kept stopped and it came from a i was reading the book called wildcats three point. Oh from <hes> while storm which said what would happen if there was a corporation that was a superhero so i decided to take that step further and said what would happen. If there was a country that was a super villain and that's the nation nation nature of that book and it's so much fun. It's so much fun and i've been sitting on the manuscript for that one now because i did the pre the preview chapter of of it in was it far away preview chapter in far away to tease it and i've been sitting on the management forever and my wife like you gotta finish this you gotta fish fish so my goal is hopefully hopefully to get it out in early twenty twenty that is my my goal to hopefully have that last. Was that last book in the series it's the third book in the series of six but to hopefully get it out in twenty twenty and then george martin wholesaling and never finished a series. You're are these stories going on in your head like. Are you all right so you'd be sitting there like you know driving along and you'll be thinking about the story of the the girl and how oh she's interacting in ancient egypt. How do you decide which stories go in the book in which ones don't because i'm sure there's just things going in your head or am i wrong about all all the stories no no. You're you're totally right. My whole life is like stories inside my head trying to push the way out of there with with this one. One of the best keys that i have is outlining so there is a timeline document that i keep on my f- it's synchronizes foam can do through my tablet and so on and so forth so wherever i am i gonna cracking open and this timeline document covers every important date in that entire one hundred fifty thousand plus your thing and every time i the matt scott going on and then we're getting ready to put something together for example laugh a rogue nation is something that set. I'm trying to not spoil that needed to tell the story in order to establish something that will happen in another story so you're interrupting something. Yes very very much so i needed to refer to something in far away that has something to do with something that happened in rogue nation and and i'd set something up in started the sequel to the crown which is the crowd rise and fall which also was relevant to stuff that happened in far away ah road nation but i need for new purposes to be able to have these things together which is why the timeline is so important south screw things up <hes> so when i look at the time i'm like okay. I need to pull this out. Because this part of the story this part of the short story despite is a novel this part of this and then i'll get to going on those <hes> when i'm not working on work for her which is eaten up a lot more my time recently <hes>. Didn't you never met a check. You didn't like right whenever apart sam jackson did it. Did it clear that we good <hes> so yeah but these ideas are constantly running my head and my my wife she like. Are you ever really here. I'm like no. I'm here with you. She's like are you for real no so i i have a constant near the problem with me because i do so many things with reviewing comics and everything else. I'm not only running all mass stories. I'm wearing the star wars continuity in the marvel continuity when the dc continuity. I'm really three or four of the things stranger things and those are constantly running in my head keeping track of things and in on just the ones amount i'm like are these i gotta make new ideas. He's got have more style happy and that's without the new ideas the pop up just out of nowhere you know they'd like oh. This is just a piece of flash fixing. This is literally just five hundred words. I'll i'll never think about it again and it's just this constant you know. I never worry about people stealing my ideas because i've got lots more never forever yeah. You know what you know. What's interesting. You don't want to give away the plot or spoil your book but in a sense like there's no talkers block there's writer's block but there's no talkers block. You know you sit down and have a conversation with share someone so your ideas with someone you trust and maybe you keep a couple of trade secrets up your sleeve when you don't tell everybody everything but you gotta be bouncing ideas off people and that's why i do this show because i really love to meet people like you and bounce ideas aw listen to their for sure. It's been an honor and bounce nino. You know get the feel for their craft like nobody can write rogue nation like that's your book but what what you've laid out he's such a wonderful artistic structure structure then for you know a lot of people have these stories going in their head and they want to find a way to let them out and it's like i was listening to the time time-line. That's exactly what you need because there's nothing better than when my daughter when i was a kid reading these books or even as i don't. I don't read many books now. Listen audible books looks but there's nothing better than when i was reading c._s. Lewis or lord of the rings series and a character that i met earlier in the book reappears. There's and you're like. I know that guy and you kind of feeling yeah. It's like wonderful man and when lego last us appears in yes in what's the one with from here a back again <hes> the guy's name there the around frodo baggins bill. The bill bag is one and you're like my kids all that's him from that. I'm like yeah yeah they appear but you're supposed to read that one i but anyway doesn't matter her but yeah okay and these these characters reappear and you feel like you're seeing an old friend again in your dreams or something you know. It's like oh like alaska's back. It's just the one but there's all these books and people you know they really like like the dopamine reaction you get from phasing in which is instant and tiny and small and meaningless and probably a trick played on you to get your eyeballs looking at an advertisement and you know your dopamine rush you get from being reintroduced to the old love of your characters life from each in egypt who got resurrected because whatever whatever later you know what i'm saying like whatever creed it's like oh i remember that guy and you feel like you're meeting a friend again and that's why fiction can be so wonderful that way no for for the reader and there's like almost like a conspiracy between the reader and the author on this and the author is giving the reader what they want right which is the entwining of these arc tipple characters over a period of time in the time line is so useful for people hannibal. You have that feeling it in nassau. Sorry it's it's great. There's no creator in the modern era who's been more profitable with this and kevin kevin knows this inside now. He's like oh you like four. Oh let me show you went door is going to pop up again. Check this. Oh no no no you like like panther. Check this out. Here's what black panthers going to do next yeah and the skill and the patients because literally we know one in entertainment has ever had that kind of patients on that kind of scale before <hes> to weave a story into little chapters through decades. Okay you billions of dollars. Worth of business is unprecedented but it's really he's literally just doing comic books on onscreen as literally. What kind of books do the magic of continuity is what you're talking about win. Legless pops up. That's continuity yes because you know will know he wrote an entire elvis. Language token created whole frigging crazy so he could yeah exactly just so he could build the underpinnings for this thing and you need to know every word and not only in language but also been in an nelson bad to exactly as he was so thorough about it because he was a linguist by trade i and creating this modern myth means that you have to be able to wave things back in oh okay i know in in norse myth here's where loki comes to take out balder but here's where it comes back to do this thing with the frost giants and helped so so there's a lot of game of thrones does that too as well game of thrones dame guinevere good too. That's a lot. I love what happened on the show. A lot of people are very polarized by that for some reason but that's because they care. That's really care the actually medicare ebtekar yeah. It's like. I'll tell you i bet you if you put those f._m. Awry receptors on people's heads while they're watching some of these really good shows. I bet you they experienced against legitimate remorse and grief when one of the characters in the show dies. I bet you real maybe not as real but it is real. They're they're are invested. Men emotionally invested in those programs for sure. Absolutely oh those books you know. I love what you just said. I love the way we were talking so deeply about the the writing process and then you brought it back to money love it. We are we. Are you know i love it. The sky makes money not to say i mean because the quality of the work stands to because i mean you can say oh well you know batman versus superman obama four hundred million dollars but y y i mean you're the quality of the work. The fact that you know i went to go see black panther in theaters four times the fourth time i'm still saying grandmothers bringing their families and church groups coming in and you know that's that's unproven. That's only because the quality of the work if you didn't can have iran kugler if you didn't have a target which the guy who did thor. I can't pronounce his name which is embarrassing murata premier. If if you didn't have the quality of those types of craftsman people who has spent the time developing their craft people worked at it people were good at and are willing to buy into a larger plan the work. Luckily i'm the only time is i gotta worry about your. I can figure that out. I'll get yeah but you've worked on other people's timelines. You've worked. You have written yeah you've written on so it's interesting that your career is woven into so many different things in behind it. There's some idea idea expression of your creativity and expression of your desire to to you know <hes> a desire to make a mark in your world and <music>. It's interesting because all the successful people. I've met lots of them on been doing this show and not just in in the career as an entrepreneur. I always finally start scratching scratching their surface a little bit whatever it is. They're doing if they're good at it. You usually find someone like if they're creating beautiful things that they make money on. I'm not talking about on wall street here. Bro what i mean like i think i think there's a difference between an entrepreneur and a bank stor. I say bank banker banksters okay. Let's see we're going you know but when i'm when i'm meet those people that have created something beautiful and they become very wealthy about it and people say oh yeah they're nominee are usually very revert. All the ones. I've met are very high integrity. They're super creative. They know that if they wanna make something meaningful there needs to come with profit it and the realistic and both out approach and you know i always find that and i've i've found that with you you know it's like you're an artist in a sense but you've got a family to feed. You got goals in life and that's so wonderful. It really is thinking what else we got on here. I got a cover hang on. Oh i got a tough one. I don't wanna leave anything behind. Is there anything else that you want to discuss about your career well. I don't know in this era. 'cause i'm getting ready to right now. Gear up to san diego comecon which is the big nerdy graaf thing of the year comic book conference. Yes sir comecon. International san diego is considered the biggest just pop culture and kombucha celebration in the year and people real touchy about the names. I'm trying to get it right. Most people just say oh it's d._c. Come and that's the thing that i do. It's been good for me from a creative standpoint because i've met a lot of collaborators gotten a lot of great ideas. I've been able to promote my work in a way that has been very good for sharing the work out there but it's also been profitable. I was on a paddle at wonder con when this publisher saw me and i ended up writing twenty two books for him wondering comics i did a historical fiction miniseries series called scoundrels said in nineteen eighty-one angeles so much research i did <hes> irrational numbers which was a supernatural historical fiction book about about vampires from ancient greece to modern romania well nineteen ninety-two romania because i think i only went up to the revolution there and then i wrote twelve issues shoes at this time travel series called term core which i got to do the most ridiculous possible things. I'll send them to attack the berlin conference in late eighteen hundreds how i'm going to send them to you know i would just do this crazy crazy things and he was like sure go it. It's like oh what a what if story if story and i just i kept trying and make sure that i'll stay true to the character that i made the character so when something happened you really had a feeling was important. It was all the stakes were always personal personal as well as grandiose and that's that book was such a great experience with me. It's on issue on my second issue out now. 'cause they're still drawing it time. Core thirteen gene is outright now from wonderman comics digital booksellers. It's a it's a blast. I have so much fun on. That book are you. Are you late night worker or are you an early morning morning worker or wendy do your stuff. I am a late night person but having a family that's hard because i have to wake up with kids to school to whatever so i've had to make a lot of alterations rations in what i do. I say a lot of time every second. I'd take for myself. I'm stealing for somebody else so i was. I was at a panel at black comics arts festival in san francisco and i was doing something talking in the videos like and sometimes when they slow down at work. I'm listening some comics. Everybody you're gonna get fired. I'm like misty knows. My boss knows isn't that. I've said it on multiple videos like she knows. Why did he get done this. You have any questions sure you know or my wife. You've been in the bathroom for a while. I'm like what oh okay. I'll be right out so <hes>. I have to sneak it in the land at the supermarket or or if you know there's a lull in a meeting or so after sneak into work wherever i can. I get a lot done on saturdays when my kids are in dance class <hes> but you know it's just about it's important to me so i have to force myself to find the time and sometimes i'm sick the time from other places and i'm sorry but in the words of john carroll a writer is kind of a whole is coley sociopath. So you kind of see it coming with writer. It's like you. The story is probably going to be writing stuff. Sorry yeah there's no. There's no way to avoid it in a sense. There's no way to avoid. They're always here you know is is there like <hes> beneath these stories that we love right so there's like an archetypal foundation right that kind of runs through a lot of stories below it you know from lord of the rings to <hes> black panther. There's like there's like this archetypal story. That's it's running under a there's there. They're all they are is re representations of the hero myth or representation of a woman myth of female l. hero myth or male hero myth or a family dynasty myth or the tragedy of the godfather movies are simply no different than any greek tragedy in terms of the generations and the destruction and the family rises and falls. There's undertone. Do you have like is that just coming in naturally elite to you or are you thinking about that structure that low structure of it. I'm definitely thinking of joseph campbell inside out of definitely that's definitely part of the work and a lot of what i do in that regard is both playing an subverting it because one of the key teachings of my education gatien wildwood u._s._a. Was the endings have to be both surprising and inevitable so there's something that i have to get. I know i have to get there but if you know what it is before or i get they're entertaining for you to read the journeys. Not something you want to do so with me for example you know win how accounting to think of one that i can say okay through that one. Oh no far always been out loud enough. I guess i mean it's not at the ending wing of forward. Something happens that is messed up. It is messed up okay and it had to happen. It's totally true to the characters. It's completely but the stakes are really high and when it happens people i have like you knew what this was. You always always knew what this had to be and and it goes off that way and talk to people about like i can't i can't i couldn't couldn't believe it. I'm like no. I mean i saw what had happened but i just couldn't believe that it happened and that's really disorder reaction i'm looking for that's really the way that i was just trying to go because if they're still emotionally affected by like you say i mean i'm i'm. I'm forty six years old right and i'm wearing landau. I'm not shirt and you know and i can talk about the effect that star wars has had on my personal life shared many times parenting when my kids blaze i tried to do or do not there is no try the affected that's come out sherry in everyday life to me. Okay so if you really if you can make a story where people care in an affects them it will carry on and you know that's that can have enormous financial <hes> rewards but can also have enormous personal rewards. I'll tell why last day on this i was it was at a mall at this art thing and a kid and is that mexican couldn't have been more than ten eleven and i'm looking at. I'm like that's weird. Ohio and in the kid walks up to me and says yeah i've got heart it beats disappointment through beats ice water through veins of corrugated disappointment and i stopped because that was a land from a poem i'd written twelve fifteen years before for emily what you read that poem at the staying at the world stage limor part and my mom took me and i remembered it who and in the mom goes oh my god and they start telling me about this poem and how this stuck with them for years and years and years people oh my own community that i don't know and that just hit me. I was like she's eleven and that stuck with her because when i rid that's been like seven or six or something so who who who remembers that. How does that happen and that's because that's because what happened when you read that poem was both surprising and inevitable for her. You fulfilled some destiny or you handed her some explanation of the universe which she's used used ever since your spirit encountered hers on the journey right. It's kind of like that or something you. Your art was impactful at that's so rewarding hannibal. I can't answer that's. That's incredibly rewarding. Have that impact on people. We've been speaking for almost ninety minutes. It's and in the last. I've done three a two three hour podcasts but i actually can't do it today. I'd love to keep going with hannibal and i'd love to have you on mr where where can people find your books in your poetry and your work. My website is hannibal taboo dot com h in in i b as in bounce a._l. Season tough a. b. isn't bound. You dot com spelled a lot and i'm a part of a creative studio called operative network operative dot net where we most most most weeks of the year. We do free web comics. <hes> we just finished season four of project wildfire called once and future king will be starting season five smoke on the water project welfare smoke on the water. This fall. I literally was scripting <hes> last night when my wife is sleeping and add. That's where people can find my work. I'm on social media at hannibal taboo on twitter facebook tumbler and instagram so i try to make myself easily find. Thank you for being a guest on the get a grip on life podcast thank you. This was fantastic. If you're listening to this in wherever you're you're doing and you thought about starting a podcast. You know what if you're thinking about writing a book manny should be inspired by hannibal taboo. It was really a he really gave a lot of gold there with his process and and and just letting you know that it's okay to think crazy stories in your head that are not true. Sometimes those are super awesome and they make great books so do that but if you wanna start a podcast you wanna create digital media go to get a grip studios dot com. Thank you for listening.