'Valentine's Views' podcast: Breaking down narratives


Hello giants fans and welcome to a new edition of the Valentine's views podcast, here on big blue view radio part of the SP nation family podcasts on today's show. We're going to take a look at the giants some of the narratives that have surrounded the giants heading into OTA's, which begin on Monday and here to, to help me discuss breakdown. Some of those narratives is Patricia traina, Patty, how are you today? And thank you very much for, for spending, some time with me, always a pleasure at anytime. Hey, you know, we so let's, let's get right into this Patty here we we've seen, you know, we've seen free agency. Now. We've seen the draft. We know you know, pretty much what the giants roster's going to look like heading into into the two thousand and nineteen season. And it. This point it looks like there are certain narratives that we hear constantly surrounding the giants. And that's what I really want to do today. I'm going to toss out these narratives, I'm going to give you the opportunity to give your, your viewpoint on them. You know, when, when you're done, maybe, I'll, I'll weigh in with a little bit of my own opinion on on these different topics in and we'll see where it goes today. All right. Sounds good. All right. So the first narrative comes about after the free agent, signing of veteran, right, tackle Mike remers in the narrative, basically is okay. The offensive line is fixed. And I don't know that it's fixed. But that's people are saying, okay, it's fixed. Where do you stand on, on fixed on the offensive line? Well, you know, we were told last year or the narrative last year after the giants made. Although signings was that the offense align was fixed as well. And we all know what happened in the beginning of the season, how that line proved to be not Dick's that it was different, but it was not fixed. So we had this year, you know, Kevin Zeitler is, is an upgrade. No question about it. He was pro football focuses top rank guard, I think last year, the thing with remers who, by the way is actually, you know, if you go when you look at his pro football grades, sorry pro football, focus grades. He's actually a better tackled in us guard. But the thing that bothers me is whether or not Mike remers is back is going to hold up. He did have the surgery. You know, he we have he did everything he was supposed to. He was able to pass physical, but as you know, those back injuries can be tricky. So the next question for me is God forbid, he has the Missa gain what's their backup option right now? Chad Wheeler is it big joy? George, is it someone else. That's where I'm a little bit shakey. So in terms of looking at the offensive line, I'm looking at not just the starters. I'm looking at the depth in the event of an emergency. I look at it this way Patty from where we were a year ago, with Patrick mom may with crossing our fingers. And hoping that the giants could get something out of Iraq flowers, as a right tackle, I look at it as the giants with Kevin Zeitler, and with Mike remers would appear to be in a better place than they were a year ago. But I don't think you can say fixed until we see these guys perform. I mean remers is an adequate, and he's an average right tackle, he's a guy that's got some guard experience. I think he signed a one year contract. He's not a long-term solution. He's a guy that they hope to get adequate play from and buys them, some time, maybe to get into the draft next year and hopefully find a long-term answer. I still question whether the giants have a long-term answer. It's. Center in John Hal, a peo-. I just don't know. I mean, I think we still have questions about that starting offensive line. And you're also right about the depth. I look at I, I wonder who would play in how well would they play if Kevin Zeitler went down or will Hernandez went down or God forbid, Nate soldier went down on the other side? I think the giants are in a better place than they were a year ago on that offensive line. But, but I won't say fixed. I think, as Dave Gettleman, Pat Shurmur have indicated they always want to put additional resources into both lines offense and defense. And I think that upgrading in and continuing to build those lines is going to be a constant work in progress. Yeah. I agree with you. You know, offense lines though come together overnight, it does take time it takes reps, and I think the giants are headed in the right direction. Shin. But like I said, for me, they're still a few question marks before. I am ready to say that yesterday of solve all their problems on that unit. I do have to say, though, that in my, my little bit of dealings with, with big George and some of the people, I've had a chance to talk to about big, George. I really liked that kid and I hope that he turns out to be as good a player as he is a person because if that's the case, then the giants would really have something there. Yeah. I agree with you. He's a terrific young man, you know, seems very willing and eager to get started to learn but you know you gotta do it on the field. That's where it all boils down to. I mean there have been many guys who've come into camp over the years for the giants who have been terrific human beings, who you can't help root for, but when it comes to the talent ex aspect of it and the execution they fallen short. So hopefully George won't be one of them. And hopefully, you know, he can become the long term solution. If you know the giants decide to move. On from remembers after this year. Okay. Patty, second narrative to touch on. Is that when you look at the draft, and you look at free agency that while the giants spent a lot of capital on cornerback? And they drafted Dexter Lawrence to help the defensive line that they didn't do enough to help the pass rush. I'm going to say on paper. Yes, I agree with that, because, you know, look, they've got Marcus golden on a one year proof at deal. He's coming back two years renew. He'll be two years removed from that, that achilles injury that he had. So they gave him a one year prove at deal. They have Otane seminars who is trying to make the jump from a smaller program. They have Lorenzo Carter who showed some flashes last year. But still had some work to do. They have. I'm trying to think who else they have a career Martin, you know who disappeared at times last year. And they have Lorenzo Carter who is trying to, you know, take the next step forward. They don't have her say, a proven pass rusher golden. It's the closest thing they have. So would that set? I what I think is going to happen in this instance is while the giants are kind of, you know, allowing those edge guys to find their footing. So to speak. I think we're going to see instances where James betcha who's going to generate a pass, rush from other avenues, such as you know, maybe the defensive secondary. Maybe he sends some of the off ball linebackers in on blitzes. You know, the pushing of the pocket up the middle with Dexter warrants. So I just think that, you know, the past Russia's gonna probably come from other areas, and I wouldn't be surprised if the leading, I get asked this a lot on Twitter, I wouldn't be surprised at the sack leader on the giants isn't an edge rusher this year. I would agree with that Patty, you know there are some things that the giants did on defense. And you know, there's more than one way to do things, you know, on when it when it comes to anything, and I think that what the giants did here was they didn't directly draft a big time pass rusher. You know, when they were sitting there at seventeen in the draft, I think they could have sort of quieted, this particular narrative, had, they drafted Montas sweat to pass rusher from Mississippi State instead of drafting Dexter Lawrence. Now I'm not sitting here saying that would have been the right thing to do or drafting Morris was the wrong thing to do, but in terms of this narrative, it would have pretty much taken it off the table, because then they could have said, we drafted a first round appear first round pass rusher. But I think what they've done. Here is. Done some things that will help the pass rushing other ways bulking up in the secondary. Adding de'andre Baker Julian love adding Antoine buffet in the back end of the defense. They've done some things that will help the pass rush. But they did not add that one pure pass, rush guy at least a proven one James Becher said the other day that these guys have to build their resume. But I will say this. I agree with that, in terms of Zimmerman s I agree with that in terms of Lawrence, and, and, you know, BJ hill and Lorenzo Carter, and those guys the one thing that does bother me is if the giants are really and truly looking at Marcus, golden and counting on him to be their premier pass. Rush guy he hasn't been that since he heard his NIA couple of years ago. And even when he was a. Twelve twelve and a half sack guy in Arizona. He wasn't the number one guy there. He was playing cross from Chandler Jones. And I think it's a really big ask you, if you're looking at Marcus golden in and saying, you know, he is our primary number one pass rusher. Yeah. I think it's a gamble. I mean, you know, with all due respect to golden, I like the attitude that he brings. I liked it the one to that he brings, but the question is will his body allow him to fulfil all that? And I think it's a big gamble. I you know the way I see it. They have a lot of question marks on the edge. Not that they don't have talent. I think Lorenzo Carter if he if he takes that leap forward. I think he could be a good addition. You know, I'm curious to see how quickly minez can make the leap from Old Dominion to the NFL. But I just would would have felt better if they had gotten a pure. Pass rusher a healthy pure pass rusher somewhere along the lines and I wouldn't be surprised actually at it. They added, you know, a pass rusher. You know, I think the Shane Ray the one side of not mistaken on. There might be a couple of other guys that are still unsigned. Maybe they looked do that. Instead, you never know how things work out, you know, heading into into training camp into the preseason. I think it was really, really late last year. When the giants signed Connor bar win. That was a move that, that didn't really work out for the giants. You know, Patty, I keep thinking here. I keep coming back. I mentioned Montas sweat earlier. And there was a point in time, when I think people thought that the giants would draft montes's sweat six, and perhaps a quarterback, you know, maybe Daniel Jones at seventeen and I, I just wonder what the reaction would would be. Or would have been had. The giants actually done that in re. Verse who knows? I mean probably not as outraged as it was given the way they took the draft. Right. Oh, sure. But I think it comes down to it all comes down to in the end, do the guys that the giants drafted. Do they perform? And if they perform then all of the emotion all of the firestorm all of that goes away. Exactly. That's what it all boils down to win and perform in all all this, you know, all they should have done this, or they should have done that, that all disappears Patty, let's take a quick break for a word from our sponsors here. And then we'll come back and we'll talk about a couple more of these narratives. Beyond saying, Arianna Guerande and Drake are talked about ad nauseam as celebrities, but there's one thing that's rarely discussed their music on switched on pop. We go deep into the sounds of pop music to explain what it means. How it's made and why it's so effective. We talked with some of today's greatest artists producers journalists to decode the musical logic behind our modern soundtrack and understand its role in our culture switched on pop. Won't reveal for you. 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All I know is, you know, I think practice on Monday morning is at is at nine forty five and that means I'll be in my car on the road. Heading up the New York state throughway by six thirty in the morning and I'm going to be really grouchy when I get there. Well, then make sure you sit on the opposite end of the room me. I'm gonna I'm gonna put an official request with Pat Shurmur that he that he make practices during OT as a little bit later. Hey, I have to go north on the turnpike to get to practice Saul. You know, at least you're coming south. Well, there is that so I don't I don't hit anything, really, really bad traffic wise until I get about ten minutes about ten minutes from the facility when everything just sorta grinds to a halt. That's the price you gotta pay. You wanna play with the big boys, you got to put up with the schedule vary you go. All right. Patty, let's, let's get back to a couple of these narratives here in the next one that I have on my on my list of things that I jotted down here was something about the about the wide receivers and what we keep hearing with Odell Beckham. Now in Cleveland, the giants signed golden Tate, they drafted derrius Slayton in the sixth round and he's another guy. That's six one one ninety has that same body type the narrative that we hear is that the giants just don't have either enough talent or enough. Diversity of skill set in their wide receiving corps to really be successful in the passing attack. What's your take on that Patty, I think it's too Cinta really say I mean, if we're. Going off with these guys did in the past I can see why people would say that. But let's see how the coaching staff here is going to use these guys. You know, maybe they get to a point where they say, okay. You know what we're going to use. Sterling shepherd, for example, in the slot on these particular situations. Or golden Tate will be, you know, the flanker on these particular situations. I think it's kind of premature to say that, and here's the other thing, I don't think he wanted necessarily paint these guys into a corner, because when you start doing that, then it becomes very predictable to figure out what the giants might do. So you want some overlap, I think amongst the receiver so that. You know, it's not as predictable. It's not like you know you see sterling Shepard in the slot. You say to yourself. Oh, he's going to he's going to run this route or he's going to be the target because, you know, analytic say that, that's what they do want down. You know, maybe now they, they moved golden Tate into the slot and sterling Shepard's outside, and they say, okay now they've, they've got something else to think about. So I'm not so sure it's a bad thing you know what the giants have right now and they're going to spread that, you know, the ball around, they're going to share the wealth. And I think that's going to be a good thing because look when Odell was here. No question about it. Odell was tremendous talent. He will be missed. But everybody kind of knew that he was the go-to guy. Now can anybody sit there and say, oh, the giants are going to go to sterling Shepard on every, you know, first down throw, they're going to go to Evan Ingram on every third down throat. I don't think we can say that anymore. And I think that's a good thing. You know, Patty, I think that one of the things that I was looking for. To win. Pat Shurmur became the head coach with Eli manning at quarterback. And with the weapons that the giants had in with suk-won Barkley in Evanston, groom and, and Odell at the time and even now with golden Tate, you know, it's different. But what I was looking forward to was watching he li- be able to walk up to the line of scrimmage and simply identify mismatch. Get the ball out quickly in allow whoever had that mismatch, you to create yards after catch, and I think the giants still have that circumstance in now. Perhaps they have an improved offensive line. We hope that will allow ally to, to get the ball out to guys. I think that Matt Williamson wrote at big blue view the other day, he wrote a piece about the wide receivers. And he said, look, he said this is actually the way that the league is trending more toward. Some of these smaller route runners guys that you get the ball out too quickly guys who create some space quickly off the line of scrimmage in guys who do things with the ball in terms of yards after catch, you know once they receive the ball. So perhaps, and he also his point also was that at this point in his career that perhaps fits the skill set of Eli manning better. And we know from what he did it do that. What they call the quick game is really weird. Daniel Jones, excelled at the college level. So perhaps, as it unfolds, and, and we don't know, we don't know exactly how sterling Shepard. We'll be used or golden Tate, or how often the giants will split Evan Ingram away from the line of scrimmage, and those kinds of things. But perhaps the receiving core that they've begun to develop is one that fits the skill sets of their quarterbacks. We'll just have to see how that plays out. Yeah. That's something we're going to start to actually see in the spring practices. You know, it's a non contact practice, but you're going to start to see and get an idea on how these these receivers are going to be used. And you know, in what concepts and whether it quarterback is going to take it, three step drop, or five-step drop when throwing to the sky, so you will get an idea, you know, the whole point of the spring is to experiment and see what works and what works is what you take into the summer. What doesn't work is what you put on the shelf and table for the time being. So that's certainly going to be an interesting thing to keep an eye on in the practices this spring. Sure, Patty, the final narrative is one that we've heard since Daniel Jones was drafted sixth. Overall, and it revolves around ally manning in the idea that ally has to be a mentor for Daniel Jones, that he needs to make that part of his quote unquote mission or part of his job. It's an idea that Pat Shurmur and Dave Gettleman have have downplayed and have disagreed with. But that narrative is out there that it is allies job to teach Daniel Jones. So just just your thoughts on, on what he lies responsibility actually is here. Ally's job is to get himself ready and win games for this team. That is what he is here for now, as far as Daniel Jones ally, has, you know, he's never been, you know, a jerk about helping out a teammate because I understand that they're all on the same team. You know, even these guys who might eventually. Take his job. I think Eli understands that he's not gonna play forever and that, you know, he's whatever he can do to help the organization he can. But if you're Daniel Jones, what you wanna do is you want to be around, Eli, you want to observe you wanna ask questions. You know, I think back to an I know this is not an apples to apples comparison. But when I first started out on the beat I had no idea what I was doing. And I know some people will probably say, well, you still don't, but that's neither here nor there. But the point is I watched some of the veteran reporters, I ask questions when the opportunity presented themselves. Those guys weren't there to, to hold my hand and bring the along, I had to learn for myself, I had to take little pieces of what, you know what they did and adapt them to what I felt comfortable doing in doing the job. And I think the same holds true for Daniel Jones, Eski lie. You know. Hey. How do you recover after throwing you know fifty practice fifty s passes in practice? You know, hey, I'm watching the Spillman I think I see this route developing this way. What's your take on that? Those are the little things that, that Daniel Jones can do. And that's how E Y can can mentor him. You know, it shouldn't be a case of where ally has to, you know, proactively go after Daniel, Jones, and make sure that he's lifting weights that he's studying the playbook that he's dissecting film, and all that stuff allies, not there to be the babysitter. And I think that's where this narrative gets a little confused. I would agree with that Patty, I think that I sort of agree with, with what Pat Shurmur has said is that he li- just needs to be ally? He needs to prepare the way that Eli has always prepared. He needs to be the professional that he's always been. He needs to go about his business the way he's always done that. He's always prided himself on being a good teammate. Now, I grant you that there has never really been a first round draft pick in the room with him. You know that that will eventually threaten his job. But. This'll be Eli sixteenth year in the league he knows it's not going to last forever. I don't see any reason why he li- has to be anything other than what he's always been, which is a guy who prepares incredibly, well, a guy who does everything in terms of representing the franchise, the right way, a guy who handles the press, and the criticism in all of that the right way he's a guy who doesn't throw his teammates under the bus when things go wrong, which over the years to be honest with you. He's had many many many opportunities to throw teammates under the bus, and he doesn't do that. And I think that, that you're absolutely right. If you're Daniel Jones, you learn by watching you learn by asking questions you learn by seeing how someone who has succeeded in the. New York market. And who's, you know, whatever talent level, you think Eli manning has there is something special about lasting sixteen years in the NFL as a starting quarterback, and just to watch how a guy goes about preparing to do that should help a guy like Daniel Jones immensely. Absolutely. You know, again, there's an old saying that the good board helps those that help themselves. And look you know it's a it goes the same for all of us. If you come to an I'll use our relationship as an example, ad when you first started off on the be, you know, I could have easily said, you know what I want nothing to do with you, because I want the market share of, of the weeds and the clicks, but it's all about, you know, it's all about feeling comfortable and secure in yourself. And, you know, just I guess, you know finding that balance. So I think that's what has. To happen here with with the ally. Daniel Jones, I don't expect you I to go after Daniel, all the time and say okay, hey, you gotta do this. He's not going to be his keeper. But what he is going to be. He's going to be a support system there, just as anybody else, any other colleague would be for newcomer that's coming on board because, you know, even though, yes, Daniel Jones one day will presumably take alleged job. I have to believe that ally is smart enough to understand that he's at the end of the line approaching the end of the line. And, and you know, more, he can do to help this kid, you know, within reason the better off everybody is going to be exactly Patty. So let's, let's do this one more thing before we call it a show here for today. I had mentioned earlier OTA's do begin Monday morning as we as we get a chance to, to watch those in. You know, we'll, we'll only be seeing three of those. Their practices in shorts and t shirts. They're non contact practices. There's a lot of things that can't be done by NFL teams you know, in these settings. So we're not going to be able to judge exactly, you know, what we're going to see and as you hit indicated earlier, you know, you, you try a lot of things at this time of the year, and some of them you throw out. But if there are a couple of things during the OTA's as that you're really looking forward to, to seeing Patty, what might those be? Well, I think first off, I want to see how the defense align personnel is deployed. I wanna see who's lining up where in what situations and you know, because right now supposedly, these kids are, are versatile enough to line up anywhere, and I just want to see if there's a rhyme or reason behind where they line up and you know what plays? So that's number one. The second thing I think I'm interested in seeing is the, you know, we discussed it before how Daniel Jones interacts with e y you know, is he like a little puppy dog follows him along, you know, all over the place or is he standoffish as we've seen some quarterback speed you know in the past. So that's another thing I think I've one is see, let's see, I want to see where the guys are, you know, that's that's always going to be important, and I want to see how the Cornerbacks play out, too, because, you know, there's so many Cornerbacks. There. I wanna see, you know how are they going to mix him with the safeties? Are we gonna have for example, if Corey Ballantine's able to play is he going to be able to to, you know, to play free safety or how they gonna approach that? So there's going to be a lot to see. Nothing is going to be set in stone. So as part of my annual PSA to those listening, you know, take the reports with a grain of salt. But, you know, we should start to get some clues moving forward as to what the coaches are thinking in terms of taking the team to the next level, and that, of course being summer training camp. It's funny Patty, you mentioned the word clues. And I think when I think back to last year. I think back to going OTA's in going to many camp. And watching John jalapeno take all of the first team reps at center and not believing that the giants were actually going to go into the season with John jalapeno as the starting center. So I think that you can't take some things just from the alignment and from who's used with first team second team, you know, things of that nature. I mean as you said, those things aren't written in stone. But when you consistently see the same setting the same alignment over and over, I think one of the things I learned last year is believe your eyes. Absolutely. That's all he can do. And, and you, you bring up an excellent example. You know, everybody saw that. And people are like what's going on here? And you even then people were still thinking, oh, there's no way John jalapenos going to beat out bread Jones. And what happened? He ended up eating him out. And, you know, Jones ended up getting trait traded. So that's a battle to keep an eye on to, you know, is it going to be Hal appeal? Is he going to be clear to, you know, to practice, or is it going to be pulling, and where's Evan proud gonna fit in, in some of these other kids were, they gonna fit in, so that's an excellent point? Ed, I think that for me it's two things. Patty one that you mentioned a want in that being the Cornerbacks. I want to see this is one of the areas that we can actually get a little bit of a handle on, you know, in these types of practices, because they're non contact because mostly what we get to judge is the passing game. Although. Guys can't. No, they can't put their hands on guys. They can't press guys at the line of scrimmage, but we do get to see these guys work down the field against wide receivers. It'll be really interesting to see the Andrey Baker work against sterling shepherd or golden Tate to see Julian love work against these guys when he gets on the field to see how Corey Ballantyne works against these guys will get our first glimpse of, of Djibril peppers as a giant. So that'll be interesting. And the other thing that we always get to see and you start to get a little glimpse of, through these workouts, is we see all of these undrafted guys and, you know, which ones are going to catch your eye. Because you know that a couple of them are going to wind up making the roster. And eventually, you know, two or three of these guys will be key players in so for me. You come out of these two or three T as and then the voluntary or the mandatory mini camp. And. Maybe by then you have an idea you know which of those guys you should really be paying attention to. Yeah. Absolutely. You know, I mean we started to, to do in the rookie minicamp where you guys were jumping out at us. And, but you have to temper your, your expectations at that point because you've got to remember, it's rookies going against rookies. And now you're going to have rookies and veterans, you know mixing together, so certainly that's something to keep an eye on. And that's, that's an exciting thing to watch actually as these last few spring practices play out. Yes, it is. Patty in giants fans with that said, I think we will call that a show for today. Patty, thank you very, very much for, for spending some time with me today, and I look forward to seeing you Monday morning. Bright and early, make sure you're on time and bring the donuts and the coffee all no, no, no, no, no, no. Patty, the donuts are on you down that no, no, no, no. I have. But I, but, but, but I have to drive so far Patty, they won't be fresh by the time I get there you pass plenty of Dunkin donuts. That you're right. It. All right. Patty, thanks again. And giants fans, please remember to subscribe to big blue view radio on all of your favorite podcast applications, and we'll talk to you again soon. Bye bye.

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