Mother Jones (Entry 675.MK0333)
This sir we are Jennings and John Rodrick we speak to you from our present which we can only assume as your distant past the turbulent time that was the early twenty I singer during the great cataclysm that will surely befall our civilization we began this monumental reference of strange obscure human knowledge. These recordings represent our attempt to compile and preserve wonders esoterica. That would otherwise be lost. So whether you're listening from an advanced civilization or have just reinvented the technology to decrypt our transmissions leg to you. This is our time capsule this is the you have access entry. Six seven five dot M. Zero three three three certificate number one two nine five to mother Jones. Have you ever considered unionizing this show I'm kind of afraid that there's a unions GonNa form and you and I as the bosses are going to be left holding the bag. I thought we would be unionizing against the bosses. But we're we're we're the bosses. Now we are. That's true we almost almost struck against our corporate overlords. That's true but we were too invested in in providing the future links with this information we didn't want to risk it and also we didn't want to call up a bunch of other podcasters and see if if they would hold up piece of paper that says Union. Can you imagine they'd do it. Union of podcasters won a multi headed hydra that that would be. Yeah Good luck trying to have a march 'cause you'd have to get them out of the house but we We are generally pro labor. Given you and I are both on the What would be described traditionally as the left end the political spectrum? I think so and I'm not. Even one of these unions were great in their time. But boy they sure messed everything up like I kind of feel like the weakening of the Labor movement. America's actually done a lot of harm. So you're you remain pro-union yeah wow I'm not traverse stance. I feel like you don't want to be one of those guys who was like X.. was good but it went too far because the civil rights movement I also remain pro union. My Dad was union labor organizer Labor activists did he did he travel around. tweet just traveled around America. Trying to know he was. He worked primarily as an arbitrator here in Washington. Like big companies like Boeing or No it was the waterfront. He was a an arbitrator for the Longshoremen's Union Stevedores and whatnot so waterfront reasons reasons to things that are never mobbed up like. Is there any crime issues. y'All there's always crime. Ken Think about all the crime that happens. I think you're going to overturn the milk cow. Because of one cup of now we all make a little. We can all make a nice profit. Here that's my my motto. We can. We can figure this out here me. That enveloped the that's targeted jacket. Well you know. The story of the Labor a Union in the United States is Is a kind of a a tremendous story tremendous tail all and a an elaborate and and multi various cross generational. It's an happening happening. Both simultaneously and alongside. What's happening in Europe at the same time? And the rise of kind of collective theory and and the right socially but also happening in a very distinctive American way. It's kind of funny that ever happened. You know when you look at the State of American now how you really don't feel like it's the kind of culture where a workers movement would take root. Well it's funny because the you know we're living in an era now that we recognize as kind of a time when capital has has has kind of coalesced. In among a very few and Capitalism has become very concentrated and corporate corporate as calcified calcified sees the means of production. Now like four guys. What are the odds? You're going to meet one of them but good luck season the means of production. We're not going to get off his plane. This this that we're seeing now has happened. Multiple Times in the pin just the short period of the American couple of centuries and at the very height of the sort of robber. Baron era of the late nineteenth century capital was consolidated ended at about the same level as it is now. Is that true. Yeah like by by measures of income inequality or controlled percentage of GNP or whatever. Yeah the one percent sent then control the you know the same amount of the same proportion of the capital as the one percent now they just owned more Mongols they own more. Monaco's they own more railroads and coal mines and more mutton chops per capita the The rich now own comparatively few railroads and and coalmines although although the friend of the show. Warren Buffett is a listener. That worn is is consolidating pollinating his His Rolling Stock Right He. He decided he was going to get into the railroad business. Dance all virtually realized people. Just get into the digital railroad. ooh That is Facebook it's always railroad series of tubes. It's like except we're the Cadillac. Getting loaded onto the car is now although Alon. Musk really into that that he he wants to that cost overrun plagued to just wants a single to. He doesn't want a series of tubes. He things I just want one to one fast too long tube like like fast too but when you put the cylinder in the thing at the bank and it goes pneumatic tube. It's like a pneumatic tube. But he's like what if that between Vancouver and in San Francisco pneumatic tubes on my list of Nova Stop. It's it's GonNa be by the time you hear this. We have done the pneumatic tubes. Show a huge hit. There's photos of pneumatic tubes on the facebook as booker. Everybody's going into their old office buildings and finding little defunct pneumatic tube. Because you often see them right by you go to a hotel. That's old enough and there will be one right by the elevator to send to send room service requests down to the kitchen. Please don't send us these photos now. But a lot of the the unions in America evolved out of the industrial revolution and the and the fact that at that point in meantime early on in the industrial revolution there had not yet consolidated all that capital into the hands of very few. It was still sort of well literally literally a wild west but also land rush sometimes literally One of the first and most powerful unions in the United States was the glassblowing even really early because glass blowers were considered a very refined class of worker that had had a high. I set of skills. So even if you're like I don't agree with you. It's but you know who needs special protection is our fighting men and women in the glassblowing mines. When there was a there was a sense so of of glass blower unity That That that owners because glass blowers did all all the the bottles for medicaments and patent medicine. Winston poultices all the all the lab. Glass I mean. Let's Alcohol Alcoholic Alcoholic. We can't I'm sure that's the biggest use case and so there was a lot of There was a lot of pressure on on manufacturers because the glass blowers were the this high paid cast. And it's it's a really skilled job so a lot of power and so the owners continually tried to to flood the market with lesser qualified. Glass blowers and so- glass blowers had to had to resist. At a certain point. There was a there was an apprentice program of Glasgow Blower Apprentice Program. But it was run by the owners of the companies and they tried to run as many apprentices. This is through as they could to dilute the workforce right and the glass blowers part of their unionization was to try and take over the apprenticeship program so that they could choke took off the supply. You just show the apprentice cross-border some really sub-standard glassblowing technique. Just make him well. And so I taught you everything you know. But that doesn't mean I taught you everything I I know. Greg Greenglass was was considered sort of a lesser glass compared to like crystal glass. And they're two different right. Glass Explores Coca. Cola is not going to sponsor this podcast anymore. They use white glass me. Glass in their bottle coke used to have green bottles and now they don't yeah well for those were the days were But but then You know as as organized labor started to grow grow in popularity really it was like miners ironworkers wrought iron was very popular DC. See My dangerous jobs is that is that is that kind of what drives it. Well they're all widows and orphans all jobs in the past eighteen yes uh-huh every job was equally. There are very few bar. Toby scrivener's in this story and a lot of people that are out on twitter. SCRIVENER's trying to unionize is and it'll be like good job. Good news unionized buzzfeed. And then it'll be like Oh. We failed to unionized. Feed buds choir has fallen but wired has not the scrivener still struggling. Yeah and it's a I mean. Now we think of unions being the province of kind of auto workers but But in the nineteenth century of course there was like manufacturing thing was not. Were there was just. There was so much labor involved in In the expansion of the railroads because it involved I mean what what made the steel industry. What it was was that the railroads were were expanding West so there was all this mining that had to happen? All this refining all this production in of steel all the mining of coal that would power the plants that were producing the steel to push the railroads. It was a huge. You know national enterprise and Did it feel like it was maybe patriotic to protect these workers. Like this is what the the West needs. This is for the frontier. Well no because organized labor has always been a threat to to sovereignty. You know it's I'm just wondering how public opinion shakes out on something like that. Well it sort of depends on where you live right. And for instance in it wasn't until till eighteen eighty six that that the AFL the American Federation of Labor was founded And it was a competition between two ideas of labor organizing the AFL. It was organized around the idea. It was it was a style of union called a Craft Union which which understood organizing. Is it Labor to be something that you did based on the particular skill set that you had as a worker so a craft union Now you would have. You'd have a union of could be bricklayers but it'd be across ten industries instead of everybody. Who worked in the one plant right an often? A limited amount of limited number of workers. If you could find a specialization that made sense like you know the green glass blowers hours and the white glass blowers would end up being separate unions. I guess they could use some power if you can if you control everybody's access to Labor of that kind. You're in a much better bargaining position. That's right if they shut down one key element in a manufacturing process they could shut the whole operation down in so it gave these craft unions a lot of power but what it produced induced was a situation where labour was often pitted against itself because The the the white glass blowers would strike but the truck truck drivers would have to cross the picket line in order to perform their job and they didn't feel any particular. There wasn't a the the sense that came later. That unions all respected one another strikes. There'd be a very clear hierarchy right like if if it's hard to find and train skilled glass blowers that's a union. That has a a lot of power in Poland leverage whereas if it's very easy to train somebody to drive the truck then those guys have no pull at all. Also the result of a glass blower strike would be improved proved conditions for glass blowers but the truckers are on strike and losing wage is. That's true and they don't benefit from the strike plus none of your medicaments come in bottles anymore. You have to buy like a Gourd of Thailand to get just get it just comes in Gordon. Behold your hat out they fill it with Thailand and the reason awesome there became a cio which we think of the AFL CIO as a single organization union but that was a merger it wasn't merger and and the CIO originally split off from the AFL as A. Because they they wanted to organize according to what was called an industrial union Indian model. which was as you said earlier across across unions but but a the top to bottom unites a workplace? That's right okay. So if a factory went on strike everybody would go on strike there and they shut the factory down down the idea. Being the longer the picket line the shorter the the strike had to be and and then all of all of the laborers would sort of mutually Utah benefit from improved conditions. Are you would you would strike as a group solidarity. Start to build a lacrosse solidarity. Exactly right and there were a lot of things at stake. I mean there were working conditions at stake. There were there were The long hours there was no forty. There was no eight hour eight hour day. There was child labor Women were paid not just sort of the the The the fairly significant amount less than men that they're paid now like they would be dreaming of seventy two cents on the dollar. They would love that option for that. They were paid children's wages You know they were. They were worked in conditions of complete servitude. Also in a lot of these coal mines and other industrial situations that happened closer to the frontier up in the mountains of West Virginia or way out in Pennsylvania Lavinia the the mind and the environment around. The mine was completely isolated from anywhere else any town or any any Stores are commerce of any kind. So you've got this company store model where the town owned the housing the town the store the town paid their workers in non negotiable company. Scrip your boss just owns you. This is the same as today with email but and they go to Amazon. They'd give you like Advances on your pay at which point here now in debt to the company. So you're basically working to pay off your own and they continue extend you credit and pretty soon. Yeah you're totally. This is what happened with John when the workers don't Organiz this is what happens. That's right and and there were there. There were lots of strikes. During this period. There was There was a big railroad strike in eighteen. Seventy seven that kind of shut down the railroads. The railroad strike produced a lot of violence. There was there was often a mandy. Strikes were often characterized used by violence and that violence came because This was during a period when it was much more overt than it is now that the owners here's who controlled the political power that would that would that gave them the power to ask Governor to call in the National National Garden and in in situations where the local law enforcement wouldn't support the owners. They had the power to call in their own private police forces verses and what we would call like Blackwater now but they were domestic They were just big Irish guys right. But but that's what that's blackwater used to be called big big Irish Irish guys but you know kind of thuggish share of that would come in and and and often opened fire. The the the violence around the railroad strike in eighteen. Seventy seven is part of why you see. So many armories built in the centers of Metropolitan Colin areas. Those big brick armories. That you know those several in Brooklyn there used to be one here in Seattle that overlooked the waterfront. Is the one like run into space. Neil that's now a food court and an art center that also of that time. That was a later armory That that happened during World War One. Because we're one was a time when those armories were re purposed but the earlier armories that were built in the nineteenth century. Were built at partly to You know as sort of readouts readouts and National Guard stockpiles against the people's uprising. For before the Kaiser our real enemy was coal miners coal miners and a And glass blowers and textile workers One of the big original labor unions was The Knights of Labor there nights like that really gets you on their side. It's very romantic. Well and the original name of the Knights of Labor was the noble and Holy Order of Labor. kind of tying into these what do you call on fraternal organizations that do good in the community the knights of Columbus or whatever and very much very much noted kind of May Sonic order. It was a secret society but the model of labor union. The Knights of Labor practiced was across all work. So anyone that was a worker was what's eligible to join the Knights of labor past a certain point past the point that they decided to open themselves up and become like a general union of all working people and one there. You know one of the big things they wanted to do was passed the eight hour work week or I'm sorry eight hour work day. Wouldn't it be nice. I WanNa pass basically you and I have worked. Yeah that's the podcasters. I demand when it comes to meet. Quality makes a huge difference in texture and taste and even though it might be better for you any environment a lot of higher quality you find in. The grocery store is just too expensive for most people's budget thankfully. There's butcher butcher box but your box believes everyone deserves. Access to high-quality humanely source meet at an affordable price. That's why each month but your box ships a curated curated selection of the finest cuts right to your home. Choose from one. Hundred percent grass-fed unfinished beef. Free range organic chicken heritage pork wild caught Alaskan salmon and sugar and Nitrate Free Bacon. No antibiotics no added hormones. Just meet the way meet should be this black Friday. You can get butcher boxes. His Alderman Steak sampler. That's a total of eight free stakes. Plus Twenty dollars off your first box. Just go to butcher box dot com slash iheart or use Promo Code Iheart at a checkout. That's butcher box dot com slash iheart or use Promo Code iheart check out. That brings us to the topic of today's show at long last as long last. It's almost twenty minutes in a style style. At the time we get notes either way we get complaints either way in eighteen thirty seven in your Ireland. Oh we're we're hopping back before the American labor movement and we have referenced Ireland Roland already several times in this show lovingly because because of her deep affection for it and it feels it feels like Ireland played a play a big role in the Labor movement or Irish immigrants rather because the The big immigration from Ireland happened sort of coincident with the rise of the industrial era. I'm mostly interested the role of the Irish Bulgarians Bulgaria. Making all this happen. I I have a lot of firsthand experience with Irish Bulgarians that we'll get to later or no we've gotten to already. Yes a young woman by the name of Mary Harris what doth was born I I guess she was very young woman when she was born. Maybe the for briefly she might have been the youngest person on the planet of for for a few seconds she was. She was born onto a to a large family in Ireland and in the in the eighteen forties during the the disastrous potato famine. There they immigrated as as a family to the to North America they. They came to Canada I. She was raised went to teacher's College. You know Kinda raised to be a A she that's right. She was a smart smart gallon. Raised to be a teacher eventually. She sort of emigrated out of Canada following the work down Chicago and then eventually to Memphis where she met and married a man by the majority of Jones. I'm not the country star stand. I'm by your man. Mary Harris and he was already a member of the international moulders and Founders Union which was founded in eight hundred fifty nine because this moulders and found ray were okay founders ran a foundry moldy moulders Mo- moulders from Moldovya. You know they're working with wrought iron there they are are different. Parts of the ironworkers industry. Some people mold some people found got it and and she and he you know built a happy life together he was making a good enough living as a as a molder and founder that she she sort of left her teaching life and devoted herself to the domestic arts. I feel like you need to combine the founders into one union and just call it the efforts that what happened later. I'm sure they members than they. FM Evers and they they had built a pretty you know middle-class life there middle middle class working people's life in Memphis but in eighteen sixty seven when she was when our heroine Mary Mary Harris now Jones Mary Harris Jones when she was thirty years old. A yellow fever epidemic struck the the Memphis area. This is a little bit of a cautionary tale for any anti vaccine. That might be listening or or or a super intelligent -squitoes super intelligent mosquitoes super intelligent agent yellow fever virus might be sitting on the edge of their chairs. Yes this was your big moment. This is like the moment in the planet of the apes prequels where the apes takeover coming ten is more. What did we do? What did we do? You all confronted them on the Golden Gate Bridge and you got him. Well what you did. In this instance sent in yellow fever. Is You killed George George Jones and all four of their children. Oh Wow so. She lost her entire family to one month. Long Yellow. Fever epidemic epidemic. And that was just not unexpected. At the time that you were living with the knowledge that could happen any month but just happened to be the month. We all get cholera. Yellow fever is one of for those viral infections. That has no I mean you can be inoculated against it but once you can track the virus year just on the course here he write it out and even now yellow fever if it gets to the level of of infection kills about half the people that get it. Wow I just didn't realized it was I think of it as a tropical disease. Not a memphis disease. Well it had. Yellow Fever was introduced to the Americas during the slave trade and then once it was in Central America South America follows the mosquitoes and the mosquitoes Memphis is a pretty boggy part of the United States. No offense to memphis the INS meant fights. SINS MEMPHIS IN MEMPHIS EMA I'm pretty sure that the fights fights you don't forget you can't possibly be men fife if we're going to get so many emails. I'm already happy about all the things. We have to read a demo of Memphis so it got it got hot and Muggy that year and the mosquitoes came up the river and And killed her family so she left Memphis she went up to. She went back to Chicago and she started. A dress is making business she. She was now in labor. You know she her association with her husband who was part of a labor union. And this is you know pretty mid nineteenth century right. It's this I mean. This all happened during the period of the civil war right she they they met and married in eighteen sixty one and her family died in eighteen sixty seven so you know. Labor is happening in the context of civil war during this period. I guess if she was in Memphis like she's in a border. Stay confederacy right. Yeah that would have been a confederate port until it was lost. So he's in a battle of Memphis. He's making iron for the confederate munitions railroads like to think that he was just making wrought iron for the for the riverboat. gambler's the balconies on the river. I think he was making iron from his. He was working out of his love of iron. That's right she was just like molding and founding he doesn't even follow the greater events of state it was a craft union. WHO's probably making roulette tables? I heard but she the She went to Chicago where she'd passed through on her on her migration and settled there and opened a dress shop which in eighteen seventy one a mere four years later was completely destroyed in the Chicago. Fire my Gosh. Mother can't catch a break. No No mother Jones now thirty four years old having lost everything ex mother again. Well she wasn't known as Mother Jones at this point she was still Mary Harris Jones and h during this period. All it seems like all men who are engaged in union work or industrial work or on both besides Labor side in owner side are referred to by their first two initials J. D. Rockefeller. JP Morgan would you say that in person because you always see it on sign painting. You know it's our w Kerr wins haberdashery right but would you really see him and go are W it's been a while I believe you would I mean do you know what J. P. Morgan's it's John. Peer Porn Point Morgan. But you wouldn't have all done John. I guess J. P. Morgan. So W that's just so many syllables. W pierpoint your point. That's a case. where the W it probably takes longer to save in war or whatever the William or whatever? The name is standing in for. So my uncle's name was he was known as C.. Calvert Knutson people call him see cal but his real name was you know Calvert Calvert wasn't he was not the protagonist of mid century novel know his real name. Was I think like Kookaburra because that's Tocchet but I don't even know it was my uncle's name. It was Charles. No I D I s R. I mean he went with Calvert which is worse than Calvert I. I think it was Cornwallis. Cuthbert you might have been Cuthbert we'll just say it was cut Alvarado idea what my uncle's name was your a replicant. We did it. We figured it out seeking Z.. Cam Newton but it was always seek calvert and and it made me think for a while of going by J Morgan Roderick honestly. That's something that initials didn't actually die-off until like the counterculture of the sixties like US presidents. Were always Harry Truman. Dwight D Eisenhower. Men were traditionally only first name middle initial that was kind of the last fortification. The last stand of the initials did you ever call him. William Jefferson Clinton. No No. It's left. Who the last one Lyndon B Johnson all? We did George W because we believed him from. Nobody was saying Ronald W Reagan. James e Carter harder like Richard M Nixon was the last of that and he was a throwback to being Eisenhower's Vice President Gerald R Ford. We did say I guess that was it was so Carter Carter ruined at Carter killed initials Carter killed it. Well it was. It was part of his fifty five mile an hour speed. America's just having too good a time initial uh-huh sweaters and there's no better definition of Malays than not being able to use your but it was during the aftermath of the Chicago fire and the reconstruction of the Chicago. Fire that that Mary Harris or Naggus now Mary Jones Jones Mary H H Jones. She got involved. She watched the you know the the The work that went on to rebuild Chicago and became active in the the noble and Holy Order of the Knights of Labor or the Knights of Labor. She became a kind of construction guys rebuilding building the city. Where we're all unionized? And Right. So she's hanging out with union men. She's hanging out with them and and And you know she's lost everything but this is is this is a community that she that she felt welcomed by and she felt a certain sort of she had a she was tone as a as a great or raider. She had shed a melodious voice. She had an ability to kind of captivate captivate a room. She's got a teacher's background classroom management. One of the first things you learn but she became she became radicalized and gradually radicalized. And I think like a lot of people. She was radicalized by in in one thousand nine hundred eighty six what what was referred to as the haymarket affair and are you familiar with the haymarket affair. Everybody cares about the history of labor to this day. Kids learn about Haymarket Haymarket Square. I mean you're not so well. We said Haymarket square riot when I was a kid and I think that is gone away. Because it's insufficiently pro Labor to claim that the the people were rioting right. Markets massacre is to anti to anti capital. So what what happened in and we'll let the future leagues decide decide for themselves whether it was a riot or a massacre of but in in May of eighteen eighty six there was a a peaceful workers demonstration a gathering of all the workers hers there in Chicago and they were agitating which again immediately throws into question whether or not it was a peaceful. How do you agitate and it's also peaceful? I I guess you can. My washing machine can agitate and I'm not like opened fire on. It doesn't sound peaceful digit. I feel like it's doing. Its thing everything's GonNa be okay. And that was true of these workers they were. They were advocating for an eight hour workday and some uh-huh where during the protest someone threw a bomb. And this is going to depend on whether you call it a riot or a massacre because the police had had arrived. And we're trying to disburse the gathering there on big horses and dispersing the gathering is intrinsically a sort of anti lay labor movement or an anti Labor There's a constitutional right to assembly. I've been there sort of doing it as you say. Sort of you know just riding their horses through and saying like alright everybody. Let's break it up. Someone throws a bomb now. This was also during an era of of of anarchism ascendant. The fear that European bomb checking Weirdos are going to come over dark shores. That's right throwing throwing their bombs and and ruining America. The Black Cyrus spy coupons with long hissing hissing fuses. So the bomb blew up You know among the police their guns were brandished on. Both sides gunfight ensued and seven. Cops were dead seven coppers. Let's call them what they were for like the was multiple multiple miners were injured. Four died I think but what happened was a group of the protesters are the or labor organizers. Were scapegoated as that. They never found who who threw the bomb but they were the ringleader. Yeah and it was a gender adjudged to have constituted conspiracy and Several of them were sent to the gallows and this galvanized the American labor movement and it radicalized. Mary Mary Jones she's in the training camp on. Chicago's lower east side. That's out there. Is there a no go zone learning the Jihad of this and she had the innovative idea that if you were going to organize workers what you needed to do or or an effective active method would be to organize their wives so it wasn't sufficient to just send or in. Some cases wasn't effect to reorganize their cupboards cupboards no no to to join protests or to protest themselves both because they were sympathetic but also because they had tremendous holdover their husbands and what their husbands were going to do or say during the day. So it was one thing for the men in a factory to haul stand there and you know huddle and rattle their broad iron out at the at the the detectives the Pinkerton detectives that were arrayed against them but there was another thing for all the wives and children in town to effectively go on strike not let their husbands go to work or they they often would stand out. What an and Bang brooms on trash can lids and say strike? Strike Strike in a lot of this guy up and fire can't open fire but also the the the what was happening here was has labor. Unions were trying to unionize industries and towns and so it wasn't just that the that these protests were against the corporate corporate fathers are the masters it was also that the protests were meant to galvanize nonunion families to join the Union. At at which point you know they would then develop a majority and have negotiating power. Read an so enlisting the wives and the children in this process Mary Jones became a kind of a power in the labor force are in the in the union force because nobody had not occurred to anyone to do it it. It doubles the turnout at your rally. Yeah that's right and this was happening against somewhat contemporaneous. Rainy Asli with the Women's suffrage movement. Do I get to do my impression of the women's suffrage lady from Republicans. Let's hear it merely soldiers and petty coats. I feel like I do this on the shell on. This crusade is for women's votes. It's good yeah I think I think that links rock-solid solid run out and watch. Mary poppins right now to get understand. Kenza impression Mary Jones was rand somewhat a foul of the suffragettes because she did not advocate for a women earning the franchise. She did not want women to vote. She was submit that generation that school of thought that said Women don't need the vote. They already kind of control the household and and as long as they control how the men vote. Why why? Why bother with all the shenanigans? It's interesting that someone who has realized what a powerful force women can be in the Labor movement meant doesn't also want to leverage that in the political arena. Her quote was. You don't need the vote to raise hell. Does she feel like Nick. So she was a hard bitten. Cigar chomping labor organizer. I just wonder what her response would be to. What if you could raise more hell with the voter? Keep keep continue to raise occurred amount of hell but could amp that hell up with the franchise. Yeah and I think they thinking culturally at the time the idea of I I mean really just strikes. You is wrong from where you come from. And then you're just inventing reasons but also on things I think people at the time were arguing whether or not populism and the extending the vote to uneducated miners was a good idea. You know hadn't been that long before that. The vote was much more restricted. That you think her working class middle you would would would fight against that you would. She's not somebody who thinks that it's dangerous for poor factory workers to vote and when she was accused accused of being anti women's votes she pushed back and said anything that uplift the the class the lower class. I'm in favor above. I just don't currently see how the women's vote. It could be one of these like yeah. This is not our battle thing you know all the LGBT activists that were not not pro gay marriage because they thought it was not the next battle. It was counterproductive. There were other things you could win and surprised at how fast it happened and I think that's I think that's true and I think maybe it also fell to her like something that was never going to happen so why get distracted is traction yet But she became a a well known person in the United States. Always turning up at at union events I'm building union membership and during this period she adopted this persona of Mother Jones she would arise. Is you think character work. She she she really did. She would kind of arrive in town and she had she had this sort of tone way where she you know. Almost Infanta L- is the man by calling them her boys. She's squeezing Keith. Since she put herself up in in the very powerful powerful position of of a loving mother that made both the Union members feel like a lot of affection for her but also made her somewhat unimpeachable on the national stage. She wasn't there wearing dungarees. And you know being a masculine figure that could have divided public opinion she. She's a nice older lady. She was and she started dressing in a very matron leeway because he's not that old he's choose not that old but she starts in a four rating her age. A very unusual thing. I think for anyone to do at any time. But he's a special forties to start describing herself as being in her sixties in order to create this personage of Mother Jones. That's great that she's working on some new sketch characters. It's pretty hot stuff right. I'm imagining looking like Dana. Carvey maybe with the WIG on or something. She's a church radio type. When was the last time you watched your home movies if you're like most there's a box in your closet of videotapes film reels and photos? That don't get watched worse. They're degrading. Hi I'm nick and I'm Adam. Ten years ago we started legacy box to help families convert their aging media to digital title. Here's how it works. Phil Legacy box with your camcorder tapes film roles and photos we've professionally digitize and send them back on. DVD's thumb drives or the cloud ready to watch and share. Legacy box is the world's largest most trusted home movie and photo digitize earlier over four hundred and fifty thousand families of US legacy box and we've been featured on Good Morning America Caracal Ray and the today show dust off those recorded moments and preserve your family's history so it can be easily passed down for generations experienced peace of mind and enjoy reliving reliving the glory days order your legacy box today visit legacybox dot com slash forty and for a limited time. Get forty percents off your order. That's legacybox dot COM mm slash forty for forty percent off legacybox dot com slash forty. She had a big effect on on on the Mining Union. She showed up at a lot of those But a lot of those coal mine protests that I mean there was a in West Virginia in particular in Pennsylvania there there was a whole period where like in northern West Virginia. Most of the coal mines had were unionized but in southern West Virginia down around the Kentucky border very mountainous terrain very rural very isolated. And the the mines down there were far enough away that they hadn't been unionized yet. So miners in the north coal doing coal mining. We're getting paid read a lot more and working under better conditions than miners in the south because the the southern coal mines had a company store they had been able to keep out the rabble rouser dad and so when when labor unions tried to get in there it was the owner class sort of sought. What is a last stand kind of situation you know? It was the last redoubt and to to organize those areas would have been you know. It's the same argument argument that owners make always and they make it today. They made it here in Seattle about the fifteen dollars. An hour minimum wage that we enacted a couple years ago so the argument is always the same. What's bad for business bad for America and if we do this if we pay people two dollars an hour more if we cut working working hours to eight hours a day we will no longer be profitable and we'll have to close and everyone will lose their jobs? How do you like it now? And nowadays you can say some other place. Well you know it just means that all the business go to China and China and it's always been thus right. This is always the argument of management. It is the ball and go home. We cannot give you these these a concession. We'd love to we would but we'll have to close and you'll all be out of work and your children were we'll start your crappy job or no job and I think the history of work demonstrates that when Labour exact some of these concessions businesses generally stay open so many people even on the sensible select one at Seattle's fifteen dollars minimum wage to fail terribly. Well Yeah because there was. You know the the sensible left set well to and they're going to end up making less because they lose their tips and all this stuff and you know it was six months of people trying to figure out whether it be give tips or not. They're all those restaurant owners were like. We now include tips in the cost of the meal because blow and then then the waiters and bartenders were saying the owners are taking thirty. percent of dentists is now just like so so sometimes they would just add a surcharge. After so it wouldn't even be in the cost on the menu. You know it would be there'd be a thing of the bottom said and we add such twenty percent to every meal. It's not your choice. Yeah no tipping. But also we're not gonNA actually raise our prices because that would look bad by the turn of the century nine thousand nine hundred one mother Jones had started to crusade crusade on behalf of female workers and children in the factories. There was There were still a lot of children as part. Part of the workforce in fact something on the order of one sixth of all kids in America had a job. Wow in one thousand nine hundred one. I wish my kids had a job. Jellison has got a couple of jobs. Wade my daughter could do around here like emptying the dishwasher. Once in a while kill him. You know she knows how to do it. I taught her how to make coffee. which was my i? Think my signature move so because she she likes it because it feels like an adult thing so I can say go make coffee. And she'll make pretty halfway halfway decent cup on your neighbor on your cup. No G. Like Jim every every every cup in this house has my picture stenciled but there were you know. This was also an era of textiles and textile mill. And a lot of that work was done in by teenage girls children. The their hands could get in to the machine there little hands. It's no piercer. Uh that's right and so so. She attempted mother. Jones attempted to make this a caused CELEB- lab but she discovered that in trying to publicize it and popularized. The notion. That children shouldn't have jobs. She realized that by this point in time the capitalist intertwined network of the owner owner class meant that most millowners also were stockholders in newspapers and so none of the newspapers would cover during this period a lot of the labor agitation because it was a because it really was a sort of a backroom deal there reporters wanted to cover up at the editor's would put her on the front page. Some of the child labor stuff must be a hard sell for the working class as well. Because what you're really saying is you know maybe three of the incomes in your household should not be should not be there right. It'd be better for America if your kids were at school but it's GonNa cut your income and a half to take the kids out of the factories and the women out of the factories does has sort of paternal is work But this was also during an era of education reform so the idea the American notion the meritocratic idea that education will lift you out of pot. Kids will have a better life if I can get them out of the factory that a school right and so so there were public schools and that was that was a social movement and the idea that these children were working in factories essentially really dooming themselves to a lifetime of you know severed fingers and what mercury poisoning. While Kitwe Affluent Kids were going to school Colin and bettering their lives rushing hooper. The stick that became. That's right using their roller skate key. That became a part of the part of the language which of the organization or of the or the organizing movement. I guess once the kids are out of the factories wages. Go Up for laughed and and you know work becomes skilled work become skilled. Now this is also happening during a period when the the industrialization and the mechanization Asian of work is happening pace. A lot of these jobs are getting are obligated coming automated right. But her mother Jones's this is a when she realized that she was not getting any traction in her protests organized a march a children's crusade to to March from Philadelphia to Theodore Roosevelt's home in Oyster. Sure Bay New York President Time. It's kind of a long walk pretty long walk across New Jersey. It's no hands across America but it ends across New Jersey. It is is a long walk and during the whole and so then of course the newspapers had to cover this this giant march of of children and young girls who were marching to. Tr's house he's president. At the time she tried to get his attention and And never did get a satisfying response from him but it did now make the newspapers and and And started to stoke public opinion to To the degree that that laws began to change the eight hour workday had been instituted by this point but excuse me the to the movement to end child labor then really took hold as a result of her agitation and it was then during this sort of pre war period. We've talked about this. A lot in recent omnibuses omnibus by the I'm going to get so many letters saying hang onto by nineteen twelve nineteen. Thirteen was a time. When the into the national consensus labor unions had had if effectively become a political force in the United States? But there were still these holdouts and and this was in the cold. War's were still going on. But there was a there was an extremely galvanizing. Fight called the the the paint Creek Cabin Creek Coal Strike and Mary Era Mother Jones was a national figure so much so that she he had been denounced on the Senate floor as the most dangerous woman in America and she would bounce from protests to protest kind of like a Al Sharpton. You'd call you call her Erin. Yeah and the Pink Creek Cabin Creek. This was a situation where the miners had come down to this granular level. The minors that worked on Paint Creek AAC. We're being paid two and a half cents more than the miners on Cabin Creek. Because one group was unionized and the other one is Pennsylvania West Virginia and And you know the Baldwin Fettes Detective Agency was in there shooting people and it was a big Hullabaloo and mother Jones arrives and is arrested but the governor had declared martial law so she was arrested by the military military. POW and subjected to a court martial weight. And I'd never I didn't realize that a civilian could be court martial right now. I have a new goal like I've never thought I was eligible for court martial. Now I kind of want to do it. Well you need military law. I you need to go somewhere. Where Martial Law's declared Claire? Let them get in trouble. Getting a major city during a Godzilla movie. And I don't think I don't think there's enough to be burglar burglar something you have to do something. That that warrants a military very tribunal officer with a hat or something but she was sent to. She was sentenced to twenty years in prison. WHOA now she only? It was very symbolic right because she went. She was kind of held in in the house. Arrest Status this huge movement loves this the just loved it it and it actually resulted in some reforms. She was released after a couple of months three months. Maybe as as the Senate started to to Roman everyone recognized and I think the owners the owners recognized that they were on the losing end of this battle you know history St the arc of history bent toward justice in this instance and she you know she was released and and reform started to happen. Within the coal workday they took the money and spread of that equals just like the Bible and prophets suggests not cool. I in fact later on Not that long afterwards The coal strikes and the coal the energy of the Labor movement in the mining industry. The shifted shifted focus to Colorado. Where a lot of the the more active in the bigger minds and the and the nonunionized minds were sure? We're all in that sort of the rocky mountain states now and often. What would happen is strikers in in company towns scenarios the response from the owners would-be to fire them and kick them out? And so you have. You have a whole class of strikers who are living way out on the frontier the frontier and and all of a sudden they're fired and detectives arrive and expel them from their homes because their homes are owned by the company and then their script they don't get paid. Their script is no longer valid. Aladin the company stores that are in the middle of nowhere middle. They don't have options so in the case of a there's an incident in Ludlow Colorado where there were four thousand or more families minor families living in a tent city as part of their strike and the the The mine owners RESP- like drove through the tent city on a train. I guess it was on either side of the train tracks. You don't build your tent city on a real on the trains tracks on either side. And they they drove this armored train through there with machine guns shooting into the tents and it was you know it was mother Jones that called attention to it and actually actually John D. Rockefeller travelled out Johnny Rockfeller. who had been consistently one of the villains in all of these stories actually went out to ludlow Colorado investigated or software of firsthand? What had happened? And then he began to reform his own. His own conglomerates to incorporate new labor policies. That's interesting that the media attention. Might you know convinced ten thousand people back East but what you really need is to for. John D. Rockefeller they get on the train. Yeah and I think that was a personal response to mother Jones's entreaties and her extremely she was such a great aurait or she was by now of course a national figure and had been for decades. We don't know he was just embarrassed. Earth is harder three sizes Sunday. Maybe maybe both things right. Maybe his little dog pulled that sleigh full of presence up from WHOVILLE custody. No one's trying to convince Mark Zuckerberg the he's he's doing something wrong. Really the best you can do is embarrass. Yeah Elon Musk you know. Make Basil's look bad by showing the awful thing that Amazon delivery delivery people people have and no longer works right but I feel like once you reach at it ruined Jewish tipping point where rockefellers already sitting in his office going is is this worth it is machine gunning workers worth it or should we just pay them two cents an hour more. They're like well Morgan. Machine getting workers. Yeah you gotta you gotTa keep up with the Joneses. Keep up with the mother Joneses. So yeah that's right In one thousand nine hundred thirty and mother other Jones did not keep a Entirely abreast of the changes in the Labor movement. You know we talked today about the Socialists. The so the rise of the socialist now in in early two thousand twenty book. You know what there's a there's a lot of of of of energy at least vocal energy directed toward the idea of socialism now as a political means and that was true of this era to American Socialists have long been sort of split into two factions. There the Social Democrats and then there are the Democratic Socialists. That seems confusing the well. They need better names they do. But but they've they've really galvanized around these two terms so we have to endure it and we have to and I'm often confused fine. The Social Democrats are the ones that are socialists. But ultimately they're Democrats this European style anti-capitalism. No they want to reform capitalism awesome. They want to they want to change the wealth inequality they want to restrict the the the concentration of capital in a in and one percent. They WANNA THEY WANNA have a more distributive than collective kind of policy not with. That's not centralization or nationalization is eight of industry you raise taxes or improve safety nets or whatever whereas Democratic Socialists. Rose Emoji want a Wants to transform the whole system they are anti-capitalist and they want to bring a kind of centralized economy economy as you said like a like a governed economy this is me and my Marxist. Dad's we get together and talk about Trotskyite ideology you and your Marxist. We're talking about the dialectic during halftime and then you you pull out your phone you check your bank account. That's right. And so this is the this the schism and Pearl for a lot of the time. There's a I think. Democratic Socialists than and Social Democrats combined enforces in to become the democratic socialist. Democrats it's an unholy alliance right and and because the names are so confusing. And and because I think even within the membership there's a lot of confusion and there's definitely more internal squabbling within a movement than a rounded because because often although democratic socialist have a much more a much pure ideology they often in America have have to make concessions that really go against the purity of their of their beliefs. It's something I did not know until twitter taught me there. You know if there's one thing that leftists dislike more than conservativism liberals anyway so so you know mother. Jones didn't navigate all of all of that to carefully and she as she got older. She made some mistakes. You always got. You've always got the old guy from the you know. The first wave wait feminists showing up or the the you know the the grandfather of Some LGBT rights movement or the Civil Rights Guy who has not kept up up and said something to Mike that she shouldn't have like this. This happens in all kinds of activists move what's mother Jones's well in nineteen thirteen officially focused in one thousand nine hundred eighty. She celebrated her one hundredth birthday. That's so unusual. Even today with nineteenth century genetics. It was especially really unusual given that she was only eighty seven years old. I never took off the church lady ways you never did and she was oh she was roundly celebrated for hundred birthday. It was a big. You know sort of national alert flip. Wilson's Geraldine turned one hundred or something. Like Geraldine there just wasn't as much in there weren't as many true thor's there wasn't as much birtherism as there. And so but she had you know she'd been sort of somewhat sidelined by the by the direction the Labor movement took you know after after some of these schisms between the Democratic Socialists in the Social Democrats. This was during the era of the rise of the American Communist Party that we saw That we saw in bold relief after World War. Two when you know when there were a list of eighty nine communists in the State Department people were actually worried about four hundred communists or however many McCarthy found what was it some number of CO number. There's different every time he said it. That's what I learned from entering Canada but W- when she died she was not a figure she wasn't into figure in scandal but she was a She she you know she had been bypassed by the time but because the labor movement continue need to evolve as as time went on her reputation post mortem. started to be re rehabilitated and She started to be recognized as a hero of the Labor movement and at some point a group of of unions got together and built her a a big sort of pink marble obelisk where she'd been buried kind of under a humble headstone take and now Kamari K.. Woman you know. She was against the she was against the vote. She was always you know but you know she has this obelisk that's flanked on either side by a By statues of Minors in mining reposes Chicago and and then her reputation continued to grow There is A. There's a holiday devoted to her now. There is yeah the to celebrate Mother Jones Day when you don't you didn't give me a card. You didn't get any flowers. Her quote celebrate. Mother's Day is that what you're talking about. Is this more mothers. Take them through it is. It's it started with mother. Mother Jones no mother's Day or it's it's what is it. It's not international. Women's Day is is that also mother Jones Day. Maybe oh no. It's it's an October it's A. It's a miners day. Okay minors which is also called Mother Jones Day because she's the center of that movement it became. It became the the the slogan of the of minors everywhere which was Pray for the dead and fight like hell for the living but I think her greatest legacy was in the nineteen seventies Mother Jones magazine named themselves after her and became probably the preeminence radical magazine of at least our formative years and still around still online we periodically. I don't WanNa say going strong. Because that's what the magazine closes. It's nobody's going strong but mother Jones is still important influential. fluential voice in the left. No doubt they pray for the dead but I bet they do fight like hell for the living and that concludes kids mother. Jones entry. Seven five dot M. K.. Zero three three three certificate number one two nine five two in the omnibus. Now before we leave you we want to remind you. The people of our era could follow John on twitter. Instagram John Roderick I was at Ken Jennings collectively actively we were at omnibus project listeners. 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Oh I think I want to very cave and my wife does not right. It's you have to swim through things and squeeze through things. I don't like that she doesn't she's I don't like that. It's a sin. Not of some kind. I'm guessing are you. I think the the Mayans believed it was the entrance to the underworld. Are you CLAUSTROPHOBIC. Yes I do not like going through small spaces to get into space. I can't get out of without going back through a small space and yet you were born once never happen again. First words ever again So you can send us physical items there there. If you wish to send US financial support we are so grateful that the show of now in its independent state appears to be a going concern and that's because of the generosity and affection shown by our contemporaneous listeners if you would like to make a donation and avail L. yourself of some of the perks that come with it a monthly addenda addendum. Show show Dente than it's eight or nine months. Not Enough you first of all congratulations on your eight hour. Workday don't work but if you crave more content that's one of the perks that comes with donation at patron dot com slash omnibus project. Is that everything I have to just get longer every time. It's like one of those players Campfire songs that gets longer every retirement. I've always hated them. Ninety nine bottles omnibus most omnibus listeners. I think are are dissecting in crawdads or they're installing like plates on a satellite or something. They're working they're. They're in their craft union. While they listen yeah they're able to listen to the show and also do. They're extremely complicated. Technical Science job. You know why you can do that. Mother Jones Union negotiated rights to listen to. I'm not on the job. Future links from our vantage point in your distant past from within our eight hour workweek we have no idea how long our civilization survive. We work a lot harder than eight hours a week. I'll tell you that much. I don't want to depress donations. By by bragging about our leisurely lifestyle. We work hard for a living. And you'd better treat that's right. We hope and pray that the catastrophe we fear may never come but if the worst comes soon this recording like all recordings may have been a final providence allows. We hope to be back with you soon for another entry in Yup.