Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, LeBron James, where Colin was right & wrong
Hey class twenty twenty. We know things have been super weird lately. You were robbed of a graduation ceremony, so we found some people to write. You mentioned speeches. John Legend. He's a Hillary Clinton. She's into over twenty of your favorites from Dj College Coach K.. Abby Wambach two ALSI. They're all here to give you the wisdom that we could all use right now. Tune in I. Heart Radio New podcast commencement speeches are out now on iheartradio APP or wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for listening to the heard podcast, be sure to catch US live every weekday from twelve to three eastern nine to noon Pacific on Fox, sports, radio and F S One find your local station for the hurt at Fox, sports radio DOT COM or stream it live every day on the iheartradio APP by searching heard. You're listening to Fox sports radio. Oh here we go. We are live in Los Angeles on a Monday, this is Dr heard wherever you may be an however, you may be listening iheartradio Fox. Sports radio and F. Von Right here in studio joy. Taylor is joining me one hour from now. We're calling was right where Colin was wrong. Jerry West joins US next hour can't wait for that the logo. It's great to have you in this weekend in California. People now little bit sorta Kinda on the beaches looks like mostly families to me. We're all going to be okay. Hopefully, right going forward are down my neck of the woods this weekend. I was a little stroll around Manhattan beach. It is played some tennis this weekend poorly, but played. It nonetheless got some. Sun was beautiful out. It's raining now, but it was a beautiful weekend here, so let's start with this. The ten part MJ. Documentaries over I loved it. It was a walk down memory lane. I can't think of anybody in sports outside of. Tiger Woods I'd probably watch a ten part documentary. He's had enough controversy and greatness in. There's a combination of stuff what made Jordan so fascinating is there was controversy? He was fighting his GM. Bodman factor, not all great teams or fascinating. I'm not sure I could watch thirty minutes of a one part documentary on the Tim Duncan Spurs. Through it I, don't WanNa. Watch a documentary on Alabama football. They're just great. They're not fascinating. I can watch a five part documentary in the Miami hurricanes or p Carroll's Trojans. Not all documentaries fascinating. Michael's was. One of the takeaways in one of the things that frustrating for fans and I've always had this belief. Leave a party too early than late. Nothing but more cocktails and more dumb comments in trouble, the later the estate of Party. Come late leave early. Make an appearance have some fun. Shake some hands. Leave early. You don't WanNa. Be The last guy around the keg. Okay, you don't and. To me, the Bulls left at the perfect time ninety eight. Now, there's a lot of people Michael Jordan at the end saying I wish we could have come back for one more. No, no, no, no. This is perfect. It adds to the mythology one of the cool things about Michael Jordan's legend. There's a lot of what if it? Not, with bird not with magic, you know not with Lebron Cleveland. It's kind of pathetic. It unravels. It is time, but there's a lot of what if Jordan do. Six for six, but if he didn't play baseball, wou he could have got eight for eight. What Jerry Krause didn't break him up. ooh! Michael and the bowls left the party just a little early, and it adds to shoe sales and mythology. The following year pippen was not going to stay because Houston was offering him a contract of eighty million dollars. He wasn't going to stay for fourteen in Chicago for one year. Rodman was getting older and distracted and less consistent. Toni Kukoc was not the kind of player Michael was ever close to or could rely on. If you go back to it the ninety eight season never forget this. Phil Jackson figured it out to Phil Jackson. Jerry, Krause. I'm not rebuilding I'm out Phil Jackson who came off? Greatness documentaries like boob clean out six. Is that? The Spurs Dynasty at arrived. So in ninety ninety nine, the year Michael says come back for one more year. The Spurs win in the playoffs. They swept the Lakers. They swept the blazers and destroyed the Nixon Five. It was Duncan and Robinson and frankly you think Karl. Malone was a bad match up for Chicago. How would have Duncan and Robinson bid? It was over you watch this. How many close games were there? It was it was over. They were old. They were the best team, but they were winning a lot of those games. LET'S BE HONEST OVER UTAH OVER INDIANA. Games on Moxie Championship medal and the individual play by Michael Late. It wasn't they were steamrolling teams in fact against Utah. They didn't score one hundred points in the finals. Why because they were offensively challenged, they were only nine in the NBA. In nineteen, Ninety, eight nine in offense that's with the greatest offensive player ever. Ninth. Okay so the idea that come back to note the push off. Michael hit said he's holding the trophy. They're six for sex seacrest out. It's the perfect way to do it. This is why the mythology of Michael. is almost as great as the reality of Michael. Like, like Michael had a lot of struggles. A lot antagonized by his own GM pippen could be unreliable Rodman was flaky and increasingly distracted. Coach was never really like one of the guys. You Know Steve Kerr Paxton. Their career averages are six points a game. It was perfect, old, tired, offensively challenged, and Michael and the Bulls left the party just a little early never too late. Now let me shift to the Scottie Pippen I cover them in Portland. Apparently Scottie Pippen has been. Wounded is the word by the documentary and I've said this before I don't think. I've ever met anybody in their life. That didn't deserve their reputation. I mean we earn our reputations. Maybe not when you're six seven eight nine ten eleven twelve years old, but the time you're thirty, forty, fifty sixty. You are what you are good or bad. You've I've never seen a pro athlete who was a great guy with a terrible reputation. I've Jay Cutler's difficult. That's his reputation. Aaron Rodgers talented, but can be difficult. That's his reputation Dennis. Rodman talented but flaky. That's his reputation. I'd say those are spot on okay, so Scottie Pippen doesn't like how he's portrayed in this, but having covered him I think it's been as accurate with Scotty. Anybody Scotty is seen is super talented. Vital to Michael Jordan success. Sometimes, immature pouted. They didn't bring up the DUI and the darker the gun charge against Scotty. They showed the pouting on the bench. They showed him when he basically decided. I'm not going to get rehab surgery in the summer because I want to have a fun summer to hurt the team when I covered Scotty I thought he was really talented I thought he was toughest hell I thought it was a nice guy, but I never thought he was a leader. I thought he was the classic Great Vice President, and it should be noted most great athletes are not great leaders. Jeeter was a rod was just talented. peyton manning and Brady are Russell Wilson is. But I can name lots of quarterbacks I've said with Aaron Rodgers. He's great. I don't know if he's a great leader. He's just really talented, but to be a great leader. You generally need examples of great leadership. Look at Scottish, background and look Michael One of the great advantages. Michael had was rock solid parents into Dean Smith into David Falk into David Stern. Michael had so many amazing examples of Leadership Michael's too smart not to have gleaned some of that off that Scottie Pippen's background. He didn't go to Classic College. Basketball Power with the Dean Smith. His upbringing from the documentary was tougher. His father had a stroke very early. He went to a small college. So when I look at Scotty Pippin I, think he's an amazing American story is that if you look at his childhood? He didn't grow up with much, and he became an unbelievable now. He's a broadcaster. He was a great player top thirty player. I've ever seen maybe a top twenty player I. Don't feel but to ask every athlete to be a great leader is like asking every human being on the planet to be a great leader. Isn't that the thing? We always complain about every presidential election? These are the candidates. This is what we're left with. Those are grownups. He was a kid. Scotty was a great player. He's a great story, but the documentary has. Not, been unfair. It's been reasonable that Michael was the better player and the better leader. Scotty was super talented, but sometimes. You, couldn't count on them in big situations. I. Don't think that's inappropriate, nor do I. Think it's unfair. I think it's what Scotty is super talented, like a lot of pro athletes, but not built or not comfortable. Maybe that's a better word to take the burden of a franchise on his shoulders that that wouldn't be abnormal. That would be normal, most twenty, one, twenty, four twenty seven thirty two year olds. Are Not Ready. To Keri Russell Wilson and NFL franchise. They're simply not. And if you look at Russell Wilson, and you look at Jeeter and you look at Peyton Manning. Much of the credit goes to when they were kids. And the people giving them great leadership. Ideas and paths and so I don't think Scott. He's been inappropriately or unfairly labeled I. Think it showed him as a great teammate at times sometimes. Little Moody and Pouty and in crisis. Sometimes, he was great. Sometimes, he wasn't. He was not always bad in crisis, he was often great and crisis. the one thing that thing showed last night was how Tuffy was, and I can say this having covered him, Scotty played through a lot of injuries. He hit the deck. A lot was on the floor a lot. was never one hundred percent healthy took care of his body played her about Cam Newton. I, don't love Cam. Cameras hurt a lot and plan to pain a lot. That Scotty will always given credit for. All right, so there's a poll out this morning. It's a little recency bias. Seventy three percent of people now think that Michael is better than the Brown. They in fact, they had it. They asked fifteen questions and Michael One all of them by a landslide, and that is frankly a lot of nonsense. I'm going to go through the questions on the poll where overwhelmingly fans gave Michael the win in every single category guy shoes player teammate I'll breakdown the truth on that coming up plus Jay Don Dante is going to be joining this hour as well. Be Sure to catch live editions of the heard Weekdays at noon, eastern nine am Pacific on Fox sports, radio, F, s one and the iheartradio APP iheartradio and the US census. Bureau wanted to do something special for the class of two thousand twenty, so we made commencement a new podcast with words of inspiration from the biggest names like John Legend. During, uncertain and trying times, we must lean on love to show us our clearest pathway Mary J. Blige Tim. Cook David Chen Katie couric. You'll need some very important life skills to move forward. Perhaps the most important one is resilience Chelsea handler and Kesse congratulations. You did it, you graduated. This is a time for celebration of an amazing personal achievement. 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One was just stupid. So. Here's where I agree. This is where I agree with the fans better sneaker for fashion. Yeah, I mean Jordan sells a Lotta Shoes Pick for a game winning shot I think Lebron's underrated here, but michaels the better offensive player and the best mid range shooter in the history of the game. Come through in the clutch again. Lebron's underrated here. It's closer to sixty forty, but I'd take Michael Spectacular to watch play that ain't close Michael. Jordan's game had much more cool factor. Lebron came into the League as a freight train. In fact I remember criticizing him I four or five years I'm like I know he's great, but he's boring. The first run in Cleveland was mostly boring. Better offensive player. Yeah, that's Michael Michael is a relentless offensive player. Better look. I'm not sure what that means. Is that Glamour Fashion Look Cool? Jordan's by the coolest player ever better defensive player again. Lebron prime was really really good, but Michael was the best one on one defensive player for a long stretch in the NBA. Here's a toss up. Better, overall player dominated this one. There's a lot there's a lot Lebron does Lebron bigger stronger athlete way better, passer better rebounder. Better overall player. Be careful about that one NBA was better all around. People say well. It's more skilled now years ago, it was more physical the. Were more better. There was more trash talking and they weren't all buddies, so you could make an argument, but there's things about the old days I like and there's things about the new game I like. Michael would win one on one to twenty one. Lebron got three and a half inches and thirty five pounds of muscle. You ever played one on one. Guy, with a big butts, thirty five pounds heavier heartbeat. They come back in on. You I'm not so sure Lebron James wouldn't get the ball first and just back in on Michael Moore. He's got great left hand and a great right hand. He can use the glass. Lebron would be tough one on one. Top pick to start a team. Well. Let's be honest about this. Michael Jordan quit twice. Hayward Michael Go baseball. Weird Michael. Go Wizards, and I could make an argument Lebron's the better choice to start a franchise. A have a drink with. Not even sure what that means to be honest with you. Who would tell better stories? Probably Michael, but I don't I'm not sure about that now. Here's where I disagree with seventeen questions all favoring Michael choose as a and by the way for those on Radio Michael Usually one sixty to seventy five percent on all these so distant I disagree on this choose as a teammate I. Think I'd Choose Lebron as a team made I think he's more fun to be around. He's more inclusive. He's not on your butt all the time. Any. He's just kind of. He's an easy hang. Michael's difficult hang could be a great hand could be overbearing. Positive impact off the court. Michael's very private shoes. Lebron amazing thing the schools just one of amazing things. Lebron sent Lebron's that better off the court, better passer, this ain't close Lebron is second or third best passer I've seen in my life after magic and bird. I'm not even sure after Lebron's and believable passer for six nine and a half guy to be able to pass twenty feet across court and literally get the ball in the perfect shooting position. Every time is unbelievable. That ain't close Michael Jordan, a terrible passer. He was a reluctant passer, Lebron's and unbelievable passer. Trust to pass you the ball. No that's Lebron. Lebron got knocked his first seven eight years now because he pass the ball too much so. You know some of its recency bias. I would say this. Was, the League better back then. Just here's the way I would state it. Years ago back in the MJ. The illegal out hand checks meaning it was very physical, and guys hit the deck and guys got pissed and guys going to fight. It was intense. The League was more intense than physically. It was really I mean there. Were you saw 'em and bird meet last night? In the words they used. It was a very alpha male man's leak in hockey. You have like a hockey. You'd have it fight guy on your years ago. In the NBA everybody had like Dale. Davis like you had to have a couple of guys that were just willing to knock you on your but six nine to fifty eight to sixty tough dudes. It was a tougher league. It was a harder league. League and there was a lot of fights and pushing shoving and I mean. People were pushing Michael and so I mean everybody looks like Reggie Miller today. Everybody's long handsome skinny runs around like he looked like a toothpick, because everybody was, it was a lift weights. Bang into people. Knock them over their head off league, and there's a part of that. That's very fun. It's like SEC. Physical it just matters more. Today's more of a cardio legal everybody's buddies. League and everybody's getting rich league, but the players were far more skilled now. I mean you can't have. You can't have two guys on the floor. Who can't shoot a three? Trent Thompson years ago. He Tristan Thompson. He'd been a good player. In the NBA now it's like Oh good. Why don't we put? Tristan Thompson so. I always put. Athletes are bigger better and stronger than they've ever been. But there are parts I mean. Not All sports are better now I mean college. Basketball was way better than the eighties because guys like Patrick. Ewing would come back for a sophomore year. His junior year stars would come back for their senior year, so you knew you had an emotional connection to athletes in college basketball now it's a bunch of guys I've. I've never met their here for an hour. If they come at all to college basketball, they're off to the NBA I. Don't think the quality is very good in college basketball I. Don't think my connectivity to college. Basketball is nearly as good I know the coaches more than I know the players. That's generally not good for sport. Here's joy with the news. Heard on the news, this is the headline news comey thinking who in the sports world I'd want to have a drink with. Michael's mean well I had an opportunity to have a shot with them on my twenty first birthday. Obviously that that got your brother would not let you but other than Michael. I think Pat Riley would be a good hang if you know it's generational. People now are more protective. Patrick Pat Riley got his wealth his legacy. He has nothing to hide. So Briley is a great choice amazing. From like three different teams right so I think I think Bella check actually would be interesting is if you could get ballot check? A little loosened up day after he retired. Yeah, you get the secrets of the dynasty. Third Bourbon shot bills. Just blabbing. Yeah can't can't can't shut them up. On Friday Aaron Rodgers spoke publicly for the first time since the packers drafted Jordan. Love said he wasn't thrilled with the pick, but he understood it, but. Now. He isn't sure if he'll spent his entire career in Green Bay. It was more surprise of the pig based on my own feelings of wanting to play in my forties and then. Really the realization that. Does change the controllables a little bit, because as much as. You Know I. Feel Confident, my abilities and what? I can't accomplish them what we can accomplish. There are some new factors that are out of my control, and so my sincere desire to. Finished with the same organization just says it has with many other players over the years. You may not be a reality this. I thought I thought he handled himself really well. I thought he was authentic. He told you where he wasn't happy with stuff I. I thought he was about as honest as you can be. And he is smart enough guy to be able to massage. All those difficult topics thought he I thought he hit it out of the park. Maybe listen to your. Press conference preview. We kind of told them what to say and he did I thought he was really good I. I thought he was too and I. think that's an honest answer. As well and totally fair. Green Bay Fan shouldn't be upset at that. What do you expect them to say? They drafted a quarterback and he's right now again. Jordan love could never see the field in Green Bay. We've no idea what he is what it's going to be, but the reality is if you're gonNA play that long. You likely aren't going to be the same team. I mean we don't know what was going on with Tom Brady, and the Patriots whether it was really even an option. I mean the reported that they wanted him back was his choice. Bella check wanted him out three years ago. Right so, and that's Brady off a super bowl. Win Right so brady was aware that that was a possibility. Be playing somewhere else from that point because it almost happened and had that not gone down the way it did with Jimmy. Garoppolo maybe Brady would have been somewhere else before. You know before all that happens so I. I I find the idea of wanting to play like starting finished with one team. Loyalty in sports is a very complicated concept like we throw that word out there, but it really only applies to the players in most cases very rarely. Do we feel like you know? A team wasn't really loyal to guy. Because in general they have to make. Make harder decisions, and they have to look forward whereas players are generally more in the moments, and you know PSA mostly on themselves and their career, even if they are in a team sport, especially, the quarterback position to the word loyalty is really hard to find when it comes especially to professional sports, I understand wanting to play in one place and have a legacy like that, but. I don't think it takes away from your legacy to play in more than one place. Is. Your talents says that you're not an all time. I think Peyton Manning winning a super bowl in Denver. Even though he wasn't at his best makes them. It makes it more impressive. He won like Lebron winning in Miami and Cleveland, and if he won in Los Angeles I think it's the only shot he has to surpass Michael is. He wins a title in La to then you start going to yourself, okay? Michael went to a second place in whiffed like so he went everywhere. You go so I. Think it does change how we view you as a winner, but also to me what's impressive about it? especially as you go into later in your career for example, Peyton, manning, or whatever's going to happen with Tom Brady, it is a tremendous task for young players to go into a new place and learn something, but when you're used to something for decades, it's very difficult to adjust to finally. The bears have an open quarterback competition between Mitch. trubisky and Nick foles this summer had coach Matt. Nagy made it clear that she bisky will take the first snap. Get on the field, but that he still needs to see them both play ninety said it's going to be very important, and whatever time we're given for us to see it all plays out because there's zero jettison this thing because there's completes honesty. It's very healthy credits about that. These guys Mitch and Nick. They're both really good people nick. Foles has always been a very good quarterback when he has a good offensive mind. He was good with Andy. Andy saved his career Andy Reid and he was very good. Would Doug Peterson I'm interested to see nick foles. With Matt Nagy Well. He was with Matt Nagy when he was offensive coordinator in Kansas City in two thousand sixteen, and he said the foles relearning. The playbook is like riding a bike, so there's some familiarity there i. feel this. This has a lot of the Tennessee of last year. Feel to it. where. It's like you Kinda know kind of. The future of this is going to play out but I again I. don't really I. Don't know that I believe. This is not a described to them. I I don't know if I buy fully into the whole honesty thing you don't really. Oh, players, full and higher transparency. I do think you owe them. Honest conversations about listen. This is a competition are going to go with the best. Best Player, but what what you have to make decisions for the entire team, and sometimes telling players too much, it's too early can can change the course of that finally really quickly. The NFL sent a memo memo to all thirty two teams Friday, outlining the guidelines for reopening their facilities. Starting may nineteenth. Clubs are allowed to open their facilities if it is permitted by the state and local. Regulations no more than fifty percent of the staff up to seventy five people total can be president anytime. The coaching staff is not allowed to return yet. Players are only allowed if they're receiving medical treatment or doing rehab work, and the NBA has opened some pills facilities as well sixteen have our will be opened by today for voluntary workouts, and that's the cabs. Blazers Nuggets Grizzlies. He'd magic. The Lakers and the clippers have also opened as well. Joy with the news. That's the news. Thanks for stopping. Heard line. was it last week the week before and I said I wanted to get him on again. Jay Don days the Director of sports journalism at northwestern. He is joining US via the coward. Global Satellite. Network brought to you by Mercedes. Benz, the best or nothing, so jay has the rare position of having covered the bulls. A sports columnist for the Chicago sun-times, and then having covered Kobe Bryant for the La Times at that I. don't believe there's another journalists in. America, that was on that beat, so OJ is now joining us, so let's start with this J of this. Are Scottie Pippen feels wounded I covered him a portland. I thought he was talented, but at times moody and Immature I think it's been fair. How was it landed for you with Scottie Pippin? I'd think it's been fair. It's been the ups and downs. Their greatness has guy pippen the improbable rise from Hamburger Arkansas. It's one of the elite basketball players in the history of the game and. Yes the Moody Moments, the Tantrum, want to call it that one point eight seconds the Migraine game seven, but also I think you. You got a sense for the heroics the way he got it through that game six in one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety eight, when his back was deteriorating on them the way he played that season on on a surgically a rehab ankle all the stuff that he was going through. I thought it presented a good balance. Scottie Pippen Maybe none of us would be happy if our flaws were presented on national television. Six million people a week. We wouldn't be happy with that, but I thought he saw the good and the bad of Scotty now there is the mythology of Michael Six 6-for-6 six. Everybody says Michael Goes Bring me back for a seven tidal. And I'm like. There's a saying I was told years ago. Always leave a party early. Never leave it late. I think the Bulls at the end Jay and you covered him. They were old. I think at times. They were offensively one dimensional like I think they laughed at the perfect time. The Spurs Dynasty was starting up. You're covering, you know. I don't think they would have won the following year Du. They went outside. I think they deserve the chance to fall or succeed on their own merits. I think the one argument in their favor. was there really wasn't a great team? Ready to take it from them, you know the spurs wound up having a long term success, but at that point Tim Duncan was in a second or third year in the League so I'm not sure he would have been able to stand up against the season. Experience Bulls the. The Lakers were too young inexperienced, even though they were very talented, there was nobody in the east, and the jazz were starting to fall out privacy. They didn't make it back to the finals that next year, so it really would have been about whether the Bulls could have sustained in. That's the great unknown. We've seen how difficult it was for the warriors to essentially try to win three row. If you say they were a few minutes from winning in in. Two Thousand Seventeen Twenty sixteen. They basically had a chance at three appoint Roe, but then you saw that that fourth year it all fell apart right with with durant, going down and then. Klay Thompson going down so it's a to ask that group to stay healthy for another year to stay motivated for another ever been asking a lot, but I think they deserve the opportunity, and it would have been about them not about the competition. You know there's a lot of people that say Jerry Krause was unfairly blamed for stuff. I think it lands pretty accurately I didn't cover the team and I had heard so many Jerry Krause stories. I do think Phil. Jackson comes off as so smart and so refined and this balancing Rodman Krause. Let's address krause. You've covered the team now. You told me last time when you call Jerry. He called you back. Have we been a little harsh on Jerry or you know Steve Cursor during the documentary, J.. He said the guy couldn't get out of his own way. Where do you land on Krause? And I told you he he didn't cultivate any allies. He had no one on his side. No one to really tell his story in the media while he was a general manager of the Bulls, he was so distrustful of the media entirely that he didn't give himself a chance. He didn't find someone to help sell his side. And even Scottie comes around at the end of the documentary. It says you have to give him credit I. Think Jerry was wrongfully kept out of the hall of fame longer than he should of. He should've gone in before he Jerry Reinsdorf went into the hall of fame. It went in in the opposite order and. REINSDORF should had more blame if people wind ranstorp cross along I, think he kept him around because krause got all the the blame. REINSDORF'S SORTA skated free. REINSDORF also could play the good cop sometimes, but I think if you look at all the issues here. You know it all has to go and start with the owner. Right and one of the great revelations out of this was the fact that riser called Phil Jackson after. Do you want to come back for another year? But by then it was too late Jay Don Day director of sports journalism at northwestern. If you WANNA, be a sports journalist, that's the place to go to legendary reputation, and you know I. saw channing. Frye said this weekend. He said you know modern players. They wouldn't wanNA. Play with MJ and I'm like. I don't know I. Mean Lebron is not always perfect kyrie irving, said no, thank you. Kevin Love's a great player. He was sort of marginalized Chris Bosh with on not. He's hard to play with if you're a big. What about that assertion, that Michael's to rough around the edges for the modern player you covered him. Did He have Fr-? The players tolerate him liked him. I, think it's more tolerated him. I think it's interesting you see. One of his lifelong friends is is George. Koehler who appears in his documentary? That was a guy. He met randomly at the airport when he first got. And he stayed tattered with him then he has any of his teammates over the years, but I will say I think it's hard for any team. Mates to stay France at such an unnatural amount of time that you spend together on planes on buses in many rooms and locker rooms in the shower together. So you really don't see a lot of friendships sustain among teammates because I just think they need a break from each other. After it's all said and done one thing essentially. If you try to imagine Jordan in the modern game, obviously the closest. Closest thing that we had to almost Kobe, you didn't see free agents rushing to sign up with Kobe Bryant when they had space under the salary cap in the last few years of his career, so maybe that indicates that Jordan might have had a hard time attracting people to come play with him in the free. Agency area that we've had the last ten or fifteen years compared to what it was in the nineties again John You had such a unique experience covering MJ in Kobe and I think Kobe's the closest stylistically. We've ever seen a Michael. And there are some things I. always thought had a little better range than Michael did as a shooter. Michael had bigger hands, so he did a lot more stuff around the rim. Were there things covering both want got five titles one six. was there anything Kobe was better. At than Michael at when having covered both. Better bad shot shooter, and if there was one second left I would take Kobe. Take a shot if there's enough time as we saw the famous last shot in Utah. If there's enough time for Michael, Jordan's to set himself up to create a shot, he's going to create a better shot and give himself a better chance of making that shot Koby. But if there's really no time to do anything other than get the ball and take a wild shot. I'm going Kobe Bryant. The best last second maker, the Guy I would take out of anybody and you know what Iran that premise. Premise by Phil Jackson one time and he agreed with me, so don't take my word for it. Take Jack's well. I mean I. Would Argue Phil Mickelson. In Golf is a great tough shotmaker. Tigers, the better golfer, but man Phil now still got himself into a lot of trouble, but phil was great tough shotmaker. You're in the bunker. If you need a flop shot, you'd go with Phil Mickelson Right. If you want to win the tournament, you could take tiger woods. I think that's an apt comparison. There's a poll out today that GM said K.. D. could not play with Michael. And I and I know we're. We're just guessing here, but you deal with a lot of young kids sometimes I think we marginalize kids in their teens and twenties, and we don't realize they're tough, but they don't have to wear as a badge like most of us in a different generation. My gut feeling. Kevin Durant likes winning. When you hear this. Kevin durant uniquely around more young people than any sports, journalist or former sports journalists in America. What do you make about the assertion? No Way Katie could play with Mj too tough on him. I think we have to look at Kevin, durant. Track record success. They were successful in Oklahoma City, and he basically made that franchise moved from Seattle and he was successful in Golden State coming in where he was the outsider and being able to adapt in no, it didn't last, so maybe he wouldn't be able to thrive and survive long term with Michael Jordan. Jordan, but I certainly think he could come and adapt and have success. We've seen him in two places so far haven't had chances implant both yet, but the two places he's played. He's been successful in both obviously more successful in with Golden State. Was this good journalism to you? This documentary or just great storytelling? Were you comfortable with the level of journalism? Great storytelling, first and foremost, and I never looked at it as an act of journalism from the fact that they needed Michael Jordan's approval to sign up for the footage aired in the first place. You know you'd never go into a reporting a story with that type of. Contingencies, but the storytelling and just you know as it went on, I think you realize more and more that they weren't trying to tell the complete story that they didn't really have the means even with ten hours to to tell the entirety of the story, and there's a lot that they left out some of it. Little things some of it big things but. They went with with what was going to generate the most reaction, so you don't really hear about Shawn Kemp in the two thousand or in the Nineteen Ninety six NBA finals, even though he played a big part in getting the Sonics back in that series, why, because the Jordan versus Payton storyline was so compelling, the reactions, the video, the verbal back, and forth between those two, so they went with that they turn the ninety six panels into pain versus Jordan when it was. was more than that, but for the purposes of the story they're trying to tell and the the video that they had on in their hands. That was the way to go great stuff Jay Don Day Director of sports journalism northwestern, the Middle School of journalism top in the country. What a pleasure! It's been to talk to you a couple of I'm GONNA. Have you I'm going to call you out to have you join our class? At some point, there's someone up next week. All ask him return. I does. Show, those kids can learn virtually nothing from me, but you can call me anytime you want me. You got me, but thank you so much. Appreciate it, they do. Somebody's got all right good stuff. Yeah, you know it is funny. This kind of Durant can't play with MJ. All all the dress all address. How young guys would have played with Mj Next? It's be sure to catch live editions of the heard Weekdays at noon Eastern. Not Am Pacific welcome back. Good Daven so. Ill from this documentary there's. There's a lot of narratives that are starting some I agree with some I. Do not agree with this is one of them. channing frye picks Lebron is the goat says modern players wouldn't want to play with Michael. Jordan I disagree with that first of all. Players like winning. Winning is basketball's a long season. If you ever noticed this baseball players always take the money. Football free agents always take the money. NBA. Stars, don't seventy percent of NBA STARS THEY WANNA win. Me Kevin? Durant has taken the most money Lebron has always taken the most money. Paul George didn't take it coy. You look into these guys. If you stay with your team that drafts you, you make your money. Players don't NBA players are constantly willing to big chunks of lettuce because they want to win games because they want to be on television. Because they want in May and June when everybody watches the league. They want to be playing. And that's the second part. Michael Jordan today would be great. And there was a glamour to Michael. Do you, think Dennis. Rodman gets the W. W. E. Call if he's playing for the Spurs. Everybody on that team had a card dealer, AD, or a clothing deal or That was all part of the Glamour of the franchise. I mean listen. It's Phil Jackson was a great coach, but it literally got Phil Jackson the Laker job. He was offered every job. It got him in general manager job at some point to the New York, Knicks just because of the Sheen, just because of the glare off the franchise, and so this idea that all players care about winning. The really great players in this league care about legacy and care about winning. They would've wanted to play with Michael Jordan. Because he was a winner and the star players people have compared Michael Jordan westbrook because of their intensity and their domination the ball, but there's a reason guys get worn out from Westbrook. He doesn't win in the playoffs, so you don't get your shots and you get crushed for not winning. With Michael you don't get your shots sometimes with Lebron you get marginalized Chris. Bosh go sit in the corner, but you'll win a bunch of titles and the reason Chris Bosh. Everybody knows Chris. Bosh is because he played for the Miami Heat and he played with Lebron James Otherwise. He would have stayed in Toronto, but a nice player fairly forgettable, but he went to Miami and Chris Bosh in sports is a household name. It's why networks will lead to happen as an analyst. It's wise. It's on social media. A lot of people follow him. That is the glamour cool, you know. Most most dynasties are not you think they're all fascinating tiger woods was fascinating. I don't think New England's been captivating I really, don't I? I am boring so I like New England. I thought. San, Antonio's dynasty was boring I. Thought I think Alabama's is mostly boring I. Think New England's is unless you're a die. Hard kind of boring, I think the Miami Hurricanes was wild fund I think. Tiger Woods was a lot of wild fund. I think the heels were a lot of fun. Check Kobe was fun. Most LA teams are a lot of fun, but they're not all that Chicago team and and I. Don't use this word in sports. A lot was glamorous. I mean they were stylish. They were cool. They were good looking. They were smart. They were cutthroat I mean even in Utah. After they won. They were doing the award ceremony and People in Utah. This is pretty cool as You just had to acknowledge I'd never covered Michael Jordan with the wizards. He was still a great player, but just Michael and a bad team. Did Not have the pulse. Don't give you an example and I've talked to NBA players about this. Guy You could ask Steve Kerr this. When you played on the Chicago Bulls, here's the advantage Michael gave players. So every bull's game. There are a lot of games in the NBA that don't matter, but because Michael. was so big. Every home game for the Bulls by wife lived in Chicago got some good seats occasionally, she said every game was like the Super Bowl Tuesday night Wednesday night Saturday night Sunday afternoon bulls. Games for six years were like super bowls at home. Then on the road, similarly they were, and so that kind of pressure that Michael created. The world's watching it elevated players. Players played harder more often very few male in games with Michael Jordan. The crowd was full. The stadium jammed. The lights were on. The game was on TV. Michael was riding your new. Do you know what Phil was writing you? So the idea that players we had? Kobe, he won five titles. He can wear people out pal liked him. Shack warm out, but there's a lot of the Lakers that got along with Kobe. It wasn't all bad coming up top of the hour where Colin was right where Colin was wrong and the great legendary Jerry. West is joining US around the corner. We're apart. These days often were sharing more in Geico. Sharing more to it called the GEICO giveback fifteen percent off car and motorcycle policies new customers old customers it last year entire term. GEICO DOT com slash giveback. DIKO DOT com slash giveback. One more heard the heard streams twenty four hours a day seven days a week within the iheartradio APP, search her to listen live or on demand whenever you like. Why in Los Angeles our to this is the heard wherever you may may be in. However, you may be listening iheartradio Fox sports. Radio NFL Swan. Colin Right Con- wrong ninety seconds. Joy Taylor just told me she's going to write a book. She should have given a thinking about it. Well that's the first down. Yeah, well so I put on Instagram I got. I have your book. Both of your books. skips book on the cowboys. Ernestine spoke if which actually funny. He's a great book and Marcellus. This book so I'm doing. Some research also just got Pat Riley's book. Yeah yeah, it's hard. Well, yeah, I. Mean You know anything worth doing? His takes time and effort, but compared to like what we do now know. Not. Easy, but it's writing. A book is going to be a little more unbelievably rewarding. Why I remember the first first book I wrote I saw The New York Times. I was number six on the new. York Times bestseller list. My wife started crying and I was I passed out I think it was just. What? I thought that's not possible, so it's incredibly rewarding experience, but managed a lot of work, so it's great to have you and we do right wrong. If you've never listened to the show before on Monday, I make mistakes You know what I admit him now in fifteen minutes from now. or a little bit less A. Jerry West is GonNa stop by and the first NBA game I ever watched in. My life was in my bunk bed as a kid nineteen seventy two Jerry West Gail Goodrich Wilt Chamberlain had the headband will. It was really old and A. So it's always it's always like Jerry about once a year. He Still Jerry's one of those rare guys, older generation, but young players respect him so much like that doesn't happen usually like people just grow out of something. All young players still today like respect Jerry and that's very very rare. All Right Ready to go now Colin Right. We're not ready to go. What's going on? Our computers froze. I don't necessarily need right wrong I! Was Roy do we have any tonight? Place Sound in the back. Actually can they play sound? Okay we're good all right here. We go. Colin Right, Colin wrong. Colin Right. Aaron Rodgers had his press conference Friday. It was what we what we guest. He was authentic. He was honest. He addressed the tough questions. Here was one of his bites going right after the Jordan love situation which everybody was waiting for. You know generally axon that I was surprised and like many people. You know obviously not going to say that I was. You know thrilled by the picnic early, but I understand he didn't get asked to be drafted by the packers. He's not to blame it all. You know he's just coming in excited. About is not between. We had a great conversation that they have the draft and let me to work with them. He addressed everything the way he should. He was honest he didn't duck anything. We predicted it. We thought he was smart and he would handle it well. He did now. We're calling was wrong. Where Colin was continues to predict something that I. Don't think's going to happen here it is. The goal is obviously to play in my forties. That's kind of what I've been talking about the last few years, but you know I know the key for that is my physical body, and that's what I focus on. That's really my motivation to get myself physically the opportunity to play as long as I want to play, and it's going to be my continue motivation I've never seen him as a guy. That's GonNa play in his forties. I don't think he's defined by football. He's got a lot of interests. Music to finance the travel I've never seen him as a guy. That's GONNA play forever. But he keeps bringing it back so I'm wrong on that. Where Colin was right once again, the New Orleans Saints had to play the victim last week. This has become their defacto personality. Nobody likes us the world picking on us. When a story came out, the James Harrison was once handed an envelope by Mike Tomlin which Mike Tomlin and the steelers denied Sean. Payton came out to say well I doubt they'll say anything. Nobody's picking on the saints. The League caught them red-handed on bountygate. Yes, other teams may have had bounties. But, they weren't caught. Your rob a bank. There's not gonNA be equal punishment. Some get away with it and some. Don't but if you get caught, you're gonNA. Get whacked and there's a reason Sean Payton got wack. They had a bounty. Nobody's picking on the saints. Payton's likable drew. BREES is likable. They're one of the more you know. Post Katrina there's a sense of resilient to the city the American spirit this idea the League is picking on the League. Last year created an instant replay on pass interference to make sure they didn't have their feelings hurt. They already got rid of it because it was so. Don't be Corny where Colin was wrong. ESPN Opole, Michael, Jordan, or Lebron, who's better I'm not surprised that Michael won the pole I am surprised that eighteen to thirty four year olds. Sixty six percent preferred Michael Jordan IOS figured younger fans equalled Lebron fans clearly those old youtube videos work. I do think the documentary. Has Been Jet Fuel for Michael Jordan's brand. I bet his shoe sales go up. Even higher already is worth three point one billion a year annually. For Nike Sales, which is about eight to nine percent of the overall sales for Nike, but young people prefer MJ to over Lebron. Where Colin was right well SEC, football prediction, my one sports prediction is going to be the SEC's GonNa play football. I. Don't know about the NBA baseball that I know. The SEC's already saying publicly listen of all of our teams can't play then we can just have Bam in Auburn play two times the day. They're not getting in the way of it. They have conservative governors in the south. The University of Florida is already offering their facilities to pro teams to come on down and play in Gainesville. Listen the branding of the SEC you've seen the commercials, it matters more, and it does, and when this virus hit, and as it's gone on and on and on the people who are willing. To take a few risks on blowback from the media and twitter are the one succeeding now and the SEC has made no bones about it were playing. Regardless of every southern team can play where Colin was raw I was starting to feel pretty pessimistic about the NBA returning but Adam. Silver surprised me last week. He's very pro player. David Stern was too, but silver came out last week, and with real urgency and acknowledged. We are not built for a multi year pandemic. This will change the salary cap and revenues four decades. It was a call for urgency. It was a call to the biggest stars silver said somebody gets the virus. We can't break it down and stop the League it was a real shift in tenor by Adam Silver. One I think is necessary and one that surprise me where Colin was right James Harden's annoying. Nobody likes him so last week. The NBA got all their big stars on the phone. Including Leonard who doesn't talk and they got the rockets number. Two player Russell Westbrook on the phone, noticeably missing. James Harden whose game is annoying, not considered a team guy so so on the defensive end a solo act. I think his legacy. He'll have a lot of street cred, and will be one of the all time scoring greats, but I've come around on harden I like him more now than I used to. Because I think he's worked on being at least A. In different teammate, if not a great one, but I don't think this is random. I mean just certain players. Other players don't like a lot of guys didn't like Isaiah. Thomas wasn't used MJ a lot of players. Don't like hard. Where Colin was wrong yet? Another quarterback expert loves Jarret Stidham New England's heir apparent to Tom, Brady Cliff Kingsbury came out last week and talked about how he recruited him. How amazing is an D is? Listen I watched him playing college yet. Eighteen touchdown passes for Auburn Auburn's got pro receivers and backs. He got drafted in the fourth round. Nobody was outraged by it. size man. Athletic Ability Ma- you're watching. The tape is a blow you away Bella check for the record was willing to get rid of Tom Brady after on the super bowl against Atlanta for Garoppolo Bella. Check this. Wanted Brady back. An older brady less effective brady, Bella check watched every practice. If stood him so good. WHAT IT VAL CHECK BRADY BACK! I don't get it. Where Colin was right. By the way. You know I'm not a fan of Cam Newton. And people making lots of excuses why they don't get Cam Newton I've always said it's drum I've been told for years. He's distracted and there's a lot of drama. Anthony Lynn. When discussing why they didn't get Cam. Is trying to sell me on this quote. I really feel good about tyrod Taylor. In eastern stick, nobody talks about east and stick. He won three National Championships at one AA. He's a hell of a leader Helluva Professional. He's going to be a great player one day timeout. You're trying to sell me on eastern. Stick over Cam Newton Come on Tyrod, Taylor I get. This just proves people didn't want Cam. When you're arguing eastern stick is making the quarterback room complete. What you're telling me is you don't want any part of Cam too much drama, too many distractions and I got nothing against Easton stick. But you can't sell me on that. You want to sell me on other guys. You like your Sam, darnold. You'll you'll you'll you want to sell me on? You liked Derek. Carr get it. You like Kirk cousins I get it. Eastern stick. He's a hell of a leader among now. He just didn't want Cam. You don't want. The Baggage Cam in the drama Cam. Get it. All right Jerry West is around the corner. Don't go anywhere. Hall of Famer Clippers Consultant, one of the smartest guys. The League is ever had I feel like a little bit. He's. He was a better player than Steve. Kerr but he's got this Steve Kerr ability that everything Jerry West has done. He succeeded at and he'll join US next. Be sure to catch live. Additions of the heard weekdays at noon, eastern nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio One. One and the iheartradio APP welcome to money compensation. I'm your host Sean. McDonald, he's making conversation. Talk. Show about entrepreneurship and entertainment. I share interviews with celebrities, CEO's and entrepreneurs they provide relatable information to the listener about career and financial planning, entrepreneurship, motivation, leadership, overcoming art, and how to live a balanced life. Please welcome money making conversation, cedric the entertainer. Good money bigger conversation with somebody that make money. Miss Patti Labelle, and you know what I'm GonNa be doing concerts in little clubs. Fight! So that I can cut you when I'm singing with my hands. You please welcome to money making conversations. The Canon I like to dance with the people I came to party with. And that's the idea to me. That's truly what success is all about five. On the iheartradio APP or wherever you get your podcast. WELL FANS NASCAR is back tomorrow night, series racing the Toyota two hundred presented by Geico than Wednesday night we finish up at Darlington with Toyota five hundred presented by Geico live in prime time in only on F s one and Sunday. We're back on Fox for the Coca Cola six hundred live from Charlotte. Race was up thirty eight percent of pre virus race so that the television ratings for. So often, sports get marginalized for its value. Nobody is insinuating that it's as important as a federal policy from the White House but I think you're seeing that. Sports connects US small towns, mid sized towns and large cities, and there's an there's an ability with sports to move emotionally and Everybody was yesterday fishing around played some tennis outside came in, and and just just by the way certain sports don't need like UFC I can watch without fans. The soccer in Germany, I like fans. No fans was rough. Huge part of the. Culture and Energy of sports, especially soccer especially. German soccer, like they have legendary fans, and so I found NASCAR I thought it was moving I thought I thought you, could you could? It worked like NASCAR. Worked I think UFC worked? I think tennis works. I think golf works. I will tell you. My understanding is in football. This network and other networks are GonNa have fans CGI and they're going to have. Like crowd noise pumped in it. There's no fans and I gotta be honest, with you. I have no problem with that. This is this is all temporary. Work everyone has to make adjustments to this new reality for the time. Being this is not going to be forever. We'll find ways to to to make it happen. Obviously, you want fans. That's that's the goal. Everyone wants very safe Jerry West right around the corner. Let's go to joy Taylor with the news. The the news. This is the headline news. So, the charges were rumored landing spot for Cam, Newton at one point, but ultimately they pass and head coach Anthony Lynn said during the Zach Gelb show on CBS sports radio that they didn't sign can because they were comfortable with the quarterbacks they already have. On somebody's lost. Somebody with a few games, but we take a look at that sure. I feel really good about the quarterback that I. Have you know tyrod? Eastern stick with the guy that a lot of people don't cocoa by, but you know he's Division One AA one like three national championships with tyrod. Taylor's on that. We had an opportunity to get one fifty six minute drive. Came into play when the government by CAM. So essentially they chose eastern stick. Who's never taken a meaningful nfl snap, and just in Herbert who's never taken an NFL snap? Camp because if they would have chosen Cam, keep. tyrod is a backup. So essentially what they're basically saying is we took Justin Herbert. An eastern stick over camp. Well Yeah. I mean the eastern stick thing I I don't. Think. He's just being nice. That was a quarterback. That was necessary to mention because obviously. Houston's probably not going to see the field, but if you look at if you're evaluating with the moves they made, and this does make sense. Because why would you bring in Cam Newton if you have tyrod Taylor and you're planning on drafting just in Herbert, so they obviously planned on taking to our Justice Herbert, whoever was available at that spot six by the draft so it? It doesn't make sense to bring in Cam. Newton and tyrod Taylor right. I mean that's. That's a packed quarterback room to have Justin Herbert who you obviously took at that spot to be the future of your friend. I mean if tyrod, Taylor. Who's WHO's already been in your system? You already have a relationship with he's. He's a and that. You're comfortable with their. It doesn't make sense the bring in Cam Newton. Cam is going to be in front of tyrod. Tells you is if there was an injured Lamar on the market or Patrick Mahomes Russell Wilson or once you take him over those guys cams just overvalued by the media and undervalued by coaches. Yeah, I think I think that's fair. I'm a fan of cameras, so I'm I'm I. Lean Towards Cam, so having a lot of football left in them and being a franchise quarterback, but that again the market has to be available like two things can be true. He can still be a franchise quarterback, and there be no place for him and an opposition right now in the league, but if he was as good as people said, you would make a position. Like you'd be like okay. We gotta have him. You would for example if it was like Jacksonville right like you, you like arguments you. Newton is better than Gardner Menchu, but you're planning for the future and got in Jacksonville when I. Get different situation. If you bring in Cam, you're going to be just good enough not to get the quarterback that you want for the future. If you don't want to build around around Camden that makes sense, so yeah, I, again I think the market sort of dictates. What's going to happen with? Cam, while I think I'm glad that he's open to taking a backup position because it'd be good situation for that. That works out so the Devin mccourty wasn't thinking too much about Tom Brady's free agency decision this off season, because he was a free agent himself, but now that he's back in New England and is happy that Brady. End Up doing what's best for him. He said I honestly didn't think twice about. Tom Brady's free agency, because I was a free agent. That was my main concern when he made a decision to me. It wasn't like it was the end of the world. That's what our league about that's. What players before us. A fought for be a free agent and shoes I was happy for him if he what makes him happy. Still kind of the same I mean not that he's GonNa come out and be like. Yeah. We're going to be awful and. It's not the end of the world. It's not great, it's. Great and it's I I. I mean I guess I. Kind Kinda tend to believe that nobody wants to say anything and I get a player, not saying anything of course, but it's almost like it's sacrilegious to just question. What's happening in, new? England, like it's it's against the rules or something like ups disrespectful. I don't know what jared cinemas that he might be amazing. I'll feel great about it. I think it's okay to say I don't know why. It's such a big deal, so channing Frye is the latest players give his opinion on the Jordan versus the Bron- debate. He picked Lebron is the goats and argued that players nowadays would not want to be on the same team as I'm Jay boy. He only have really one jump, and that was just school, and he did that at an amazing amazing rate, but I don't feel like his way of winning then would translate to what is now. Guys WanNA play with. I disagree. I. Don't know I bristle at that I think guys lie. Think NBA players in my lifetime. They like to win. Well I certainly would not I would describe Michael Jordan's a score, but to say that he only score. His great defensive player was a nine time. Guess NBA all, Defensive Team Selection Defensive Player of the year. Terrific defense. On the defensive end as he was on the offensive end, and many consider him to be the best offensive player of all time, and you just said he was the greatest scorer of all time, so I mean that that you can argue that so the end of the day, but the real point is that players wouldn't want to play with Michael Right there's a lot that goes into that. Maybe Michael's personality is different than the culture of today, but I don't think you can move. Those things around like Michael was playing today. With the with the mentality had he would have also have grown today, so he would think until you the world. Teams have different personalities. Will Chamberlain was a little flake year. He played with Jerry West who had great leadership qualities. They were different people I think. As Oh I grew up with Spencer Haywood. I mean you. This I'm going way back. He was his own guy. He was an independent guy. I'm Seattle Fan. We had Gus Williams. He basically left the NBA one of the great players that nobody ever talks about. The NBA's always had unique personalities. Tough guy is fun. Guys lack guys. Chill guys intense. Guys I think we're marginalizing I. Think all guys WanNa be winners, I don't WanNa. Be Winners and I think that each. Each decade. I guess each. Era How different culture and energy to it that I don't think you can just swap like Yeah. I don't think players a lot of players. Today would not be able to make it in MJ'S NBA like. You can't slip like switch the Erez like that good stuff joy with news. Well, that's the news. Thanks for stopping by. Heard lie well Jerry West his resume. It looks like Michael Jordan's as a player and as an executive Jerry is one of the seminal figures in NBA. History is a humble. Guys didn't want to talk about that, but I am interested in his perspective. On the documentary and all things, NBA so Jerry West is joining me now. Live the our global satellite network. So I watch Jerry I watched this documentary and I loved every second of it. I was fascinated by it. I love NBA history I was a kid who collected basketball cards. Not Baseball Cards, did you? Did you learn anything Jerry from it or did you just enjoy the walk down memory, lane? Obviously no awful lot about what went on that point in time and thank the biggest thing that that I got from it is that? This was like the ultimately driven athlete who had an enormous skills. Okay, enormous when you watch his. Physical -bility even at. That point in time. I'm not sure we've seen an athlete like him in this league ever. But combine that with the skill level. The intensity level, but more importantly. He had enormous believe in himself and I. Don't care how great you order sometimes when you. Lose Games at a really important for you. You have a question in your mind. I don't think Michael in his light has ever had a question has line about whether or not? He was going to succeed before and I don't think I've seen another way in my wife. Jerry Scottie Pippen some of said. It's been unfair. You played with Elgin Baylor wilt. You're leader. But it's tough being sometimes a leader because you have to include people and everybody's got a different personality. Do we understand Value Scottie? Pippen's ability to be Robin to Batman. Is that you know having been in a role where you were the guy and played with other stars? Can that be difficult? Well. No I think it really depends on the person. Okay, their particular personality. After, watching this the one thing that I communicate with today with launched Frank We've been watching the thing and he's in New Jersey obviously were separated. We worked together with the clippers now and one of the things that I I just WanNa. Bring up something in my career, and I'm not I don't WanNa talk about myself, but we run in the eight finals nine times. Nine times and we won once. and Michael had said something that I think is really really compelling to me. He said winning has a price. And it does have a price. And that price for me has been completely. The opposite of that Greg feeling that he has to go through the summer. As you worry about some of the things that are that are That you have no control over. And yet you looked your impact. You think you have an impact on a game and you lose. For me. All my life. Sometimes I felt like a loser and. I had a pretty pretty amazing career someone during my era. and. We all. Take it differently, and we can be competitive. We can be quiet. We can be a lot of different ways in with our personalities, but his personality. You Watch it. He's one of my favorite people a-. I've ever been around in my life I. Know Michael I've been around him. I've enjoyed some really fun times with him. That documentary when you see him interacting with the players a lot Abbott, he was kidding. They're thing he was. Not some of it was not. And I think you have to have a certain kind of personality to do what he did with his life that this is one of the. He's the man's name. Trust me a man's man I. Love being around him. He doesn't chain. I wonder if we had all social media today. Would he be the one to get on there and extolled his virtues I. Don't know I don't think he would have. His play. Is play dictated who he really was. And, a remarkable player as I say I love to be around him. He just a great guy. You know. Jerry, you are. I'm not sure there's anybody better at judging talent, and it's very difficult. You traded for Kobe Bryant a high school player on Draft Day Jerry and that was a real gamble. When you when you watched Kobe. Now years later, all of us said. A little like Michael, but when you traded for Kobe, was part of it, you saying icy Michael or did that develop for you as an executive? No I just saw extraordinarily gifted for your leaders, other factors leading into. We were trying to acquire Shaquille. O'Neal, which we're looking to give, and we try to like crazy to trade him but I thought he really was the best player in the draft I saw him perform. In workhouse, a lot of him in high school, but he using uniquely gifted athlete okay, but the other thing. I think the things that he had. Maybe were somewhat like Michael, was his fierce desire to be the best, and if you watch that documentary, okay, and when they won. I would guarantee you the last image that I remember last night. Michael Jordan was standing on a table. Exalting the fans and trying to get everyone involved. And if you look. You see Kobe Bryant, doing the very same thing. He loved a love. Michael Jordan. He emulated Michael Jordan. And he was very much Canada. Same Personality is Michael Jordan that he was not Michael Jordan. He was Kobe Bryant. And his historic desire to gain information to get better was almost like. Michael Jordan was his hero, and he was gonna go everything he could to have the same success, but more importantly not let anyone to outworked him. Jerry West joining US Jerry sometimes we romanticize the past and we ignore how great people are now I think the skill level of NBA players is absolutely remarkable ball handling shooting. I think it's unbelievable, but there is something about Michael's and your era which I grew up on first NBA game I saw. WAS YOU and gail? Goodrich and wilt with a headband and I I can remember be in my bunk bed as a kid. There is something about the older times Jerry. Where there was less money. Guys were fighting for a small piece of the Pie. It was a more physical league I understand people liking the old days better. We tend to go this. This is better that as better. Do you compare the two eras, Jerry? What do you like about Michael's era? And what do you like about today's players era? Well Michael's era Michael started this okay to be honest with you, he was. In a look players and the way the rules have changed at one time. Colin you p players were really good had to work in the summer to support their families with the enormity of the money, the enormity of the. Equipment the teaching ability the facilities the training. The players today have such an advantage. It's a joke, okay. They can really if they're willing to work hard enough. And they wanna be something special. We see an incredible amount of great great athletes, but in watching them they get to a certain point, and and you see they improve some because nasty. The experience playing against great players that these truly really great ones come back with something different every year. You know I see see people. Rating players of all different ears, and I see players that are ranked like twenty, four, twenty, fifth and stuff like that all time great players. They made the all pro team one time one time. and to me, you're not you're not. You're not a top twenty five. Unless you've made it a minimum. A minimum. And this guy here is an I'm talking about Michael. I'm talking about Kobe Bryant. They have a long. The less risk careers and Michael could continue to play but I. I'm not so sure that. The enormous pressure on him, and if he wants him, go anywhere. He was like the Pied Piper. You could not keep people away from him. He just had that that incredible charisma. But when he clay. He was not wanNA. Take a nine all. But and they see that kind of harsh side with his interacting. The other players. The other side is what. The death of his father Omar goodness. How that affected him how much he admired him. How much depends upon him? And then. The thing that no one ever considers. Are The people that would be considered menial than work for organization that players get attracted to. And his security guard. The gentleman who had? Lung, cancer and passed away. For player a Michael Stature. Who has seemingly is just so obsessed with. His family his career. To go out of his way. To go visit this gentleman. It really tells you who he is as I say I love Michael Jordan I. Absolutely love Michael Jordan. Just is the best. He's a best athlete I've ever seen in basketball. People are gonNA make comparisons but. I wonder today with a rules having changed day, you can't hand check. You can't touch anyone. You can walk all over the place. You can carry the basketball replaced. and. This is a heavily Shen of the game. If he get a bad a debt to his game. My goodness, what would we see today? Yeah? Jerry. It's interesting again. A generation I remember this well as I watched the documentary, I saw Dennis. Rodman Dennis terrific, but was his own spirit will. You inherited wilt. Chamberlain who was very very I, will today with Social Media Lord. and I WanNa talk about that Michael was able. To Harness Dennis's uniqueness and it worked although it could be distracting, you did the exact same thing with Wilt Chamberlain Jerry. You were very mature and very focused. If, you'd like to talk about wilt and Rodman but I. think that's we don't look at Rodman I thought. Michael Made Rodman, work and let him be Rodman and I. Don't think that's easy if you could talk about that. Well. You know obviously Dennis, Rodman great player, and I really liked Denis personally. He was with us in Los Angeles for short period of time. And didn't work out there. He was you know he was really he was really trouble doing that period of time. But I think Phil Jackson should get an enormous amount of credit for being able to handle him but I. Think along with Michael and I think Dennis if he respects you. He's GonNa do anything for he really is. But I think the respect. He had for Michael because no one was going out work Michael but Dennis Rodman work ethic his. End Steak at basketball. Intelligence was off the chart, but Phil Jackson. Has Did a great job in Los Angeles when you had two distinctly different personality. Kobe, Bryant and also. Shaquille, O'Neal. The Way Phil Handle there I'm sure that any coach any code to their Dennis Rodman's? If he would leave to, he needed to go to have a vacation Miller season. I never seen anything like that. and. And then. To watch him I think the funniest thing because to go to the WW www the world wrestling association, whatever it was the debt point in time. And no one knew where he was. I. Think the way they're all handled. Bap was absolutely unbelievable and the team goal. They knew of his importance on their team. That Michael. Would I never saw him say anything to Dennis Rodman on these. On the on this broadcast, he accepted Dennis Walk. Yes, how important he was winning! That's well put. Hey, by the way finally I have said Join I. Have said I think the clippers are built championship i. don't worry too much about seeding. I think your team has enough veterans and coaching to overcome having to play some games on the road. We got a couple minutes left. How much fun is it been for you? It's a unique roster of young old veterans new kids. It's a fascinating culture. You have developed there and I have to imagine this really lands well for you because it's not been easy, you've got another big brandon town which you help create if you could talk about the growth of the clippers and what it's meant for you. Well, I think an awful lot colonies you well aware is. Jerry Krause Menton organizations when championship. That's not true. Okay, it is not true. Players win championships, but it's up to the people internally. Go get those players and if he can't do that, and if you don't have the right support group around, you can't do it. You have to have smart people. We have had real committed people Steve bomber. There's never been a better odor I work with Jerry Buss very much like him a man of the people. Michael Heisler, who I worked for him in Memphis an unbelievable guy, but we do have a very capable team that the age group of this team is incredible. And this could be a dominant defensive team with a work of Lawrence Frank. Our staff Michael Winger. Steve is allowed and to bring in players. Others would not WANNA pay. And we've all very fortunate that we have a team. That can be really competitive, but it's kind of. You know you get to the top of the mountain and you WanNa. Go down the other side of the mountain. As a season wearing long you could see always these weren't that. Many games left at a regular season. We just got top of now, and we're going to go down. Easy amount, not the hard part every team, the league bases that, but this team was getting better and better better in our coaching staff was very positive about this team, and that that to me says a lot, but. I think would be great if we could have series if we're gonNA have a season. They have cabin series the Lakers and clippers. That would really be Glenn for me, but more importantly with everyone looking for competition, I mean it's sad i. mean I look for anything to watch this competition? I can't find anything goes no people there. There's something about having the crowd there, but can you imagine if if if we'd have a western conference champion ship with the Lakers and clippers? Two teams in the finals. Imagine what the ratings would be like. Series. Do Wonders for the people who are just roping for things to try to find this competitive. I mean you can get on the air and talk about or wanted to, but people were just creating stories today. Creating content there has little or no interest to what America's about. That's about competition. And I think it would be fun as I say the Lakers were my life Okay, they were my life and are no longer part of my life, and as I'm thrilled that someone like Steve Bomb thought I could help a little bit great owner important. He's a great guy and. I'm lucky at this point in my life to hopefully finish my career with the clippers I'm not going anywhere else, but I would love to see the clippers get into the finals. And winning NBA Championship and see what would happen. In Los Angles I think it'd be. Jerry. You look fantastic I love hearing Ya. And CNN and I'm so thankful you stop by are shown a Monday. Congrats on all your success. Going forward, Jerry, thank you so much. Great to spend time with this basketball. Please please I. Need Some basketball and he clippers lakers. That'd be pretty good. Right buck. Celtics. Clippers Lakers west. Good stuff Jerry West. all right. We gotta take a break that went long time, and it was a lot of fun back in the second, the heard be sure to catch live editions of the heard Weekdays at noon Eastern, not am Pacific on Fox sports radio, F, s one and the iheartradio APP. The online savings account for Marcus by Goldman. Sachs a high yield account. No fees money actually grows. Please learn more MARCUS DOT COM online calculator compares rates Goldman Sachs. Bank USA MEMBER FDIC Jerry West good thirty minutes. Jerry West talking anytime. I'll take it a doug. GOTTLIEB stops by fine lower of our show. Jay Don, day earlier. Obviously, the last dance has been five sundays ten episodes of to me just riveting television. I think there's some journalism in there, but I think documentaries are mostly about storytelling. They're not a newspaper. It's about storytelling. You have to make choices like the way I look at documentary is. Is there some you know? Okay? We've got video of this. Okay. We can tell that story. We don't have video of this. It's a harder story to tell. It is a visual enterprise in so the video they have they move in that direction. They talked enough about Michael's gambling to me. which I always thought was absolute nonsense. They talked. About the Steve Kerr incident. I thought the Steve Kerr segment last night on his father, being assassinated in Beirut, was unbelievably powerful. Steve Current Michael on that team have been great leaders beyond Matt in business or in basketball. They also both had really formidable upbringings parentally They had great leaders in their life. Michael had Dean Smith at Carolina Steve. Kerr had Lute Olson it Arizona. We ask a lot of our athletes to be great. Leaders unique examples and I and I think they both had them. I will say this when I watched it. The thing remember is The everybody says they kept playing implying. The Ninety six bulls team had seventy two wins and the next year they came back. They had sixty nine, and then the ninety eight team had sixty two. And they were getting older, so it was a struggle. Offensively Rodman wasn't a score Scotty was a slasher, not a score. Current Paxton were limited scores. So. It just I watched the joy. The whole thing made me happy. I'm not a memory lane guy I like to live in the moment I'm not a rear view. Mirror Guy, a windshield guy, but I loved it. Yeah I felt. tweeted this yesterday. It kind of felt really poetic and perfect for this moment where we have no competition as Jerry West, said there's no competition. We're looking for competition all experiencing this together and getting to go through the process I. This had come out when it was supposed to during the finals and we're watching the finals I. Don't think we would have experienced the same way I. Think we would have. Loved it and enjoyed it, but we're all like deep diving in on the greatest dynasty in sports together and being able to discuss it, and there's so many emotional moments that we don't. We're going to talk about like we're not going to bring up bowls and be like. Steve's Steve, seekers. Father Michael Jordan's father. Any of the emotional things that went on with it, so yeah, it's it's. When I got done watching it I've felt like full. Chicken noodle soup like That was good those happiness. Yeah, that's kind of how I feel like I think Michael's tough, but I, don't you know? He went golfing with a Lotta? Guys, so they had like a little. He played cards with a lot of them. Well, it's like he's a man's man like how he was talking to Larry, Bird. Like not everybody communicates that way. Obviously, but you know you and I have had this conversation before. I talked to some some of my girlfriends. Abrasive. Li like when you close the people. You're more open with them like you're more yourself. You're loose Michael's Ammann's man. Yeah, there's there's not a lot of I. Don't think he'd be a big social media. Guy I just hey, listen to Charles. Barkley isn't a lot of the old school. Guys like they're just not interested in that at all they they WANNA. Be like Warren Beatty said the Madonna during a movie. Does every part of your life have to be public? Can't you just go home and be private? I think Michael's a very private guy. All right our three live in la coming up the her. Be Sure to catch live editions of the heard Weekdays at noon eastern nine am Pacific. Oh here we go. It is a Monday little damp outside. It's our three and we're live in Los Angeles. This is the heard wherever you may be in. However, you may be listening. iheartradio Fox sports radio NFL God I needed cut again. Better find a barber I'm playing tennis all. We filled up good news. Joy a little activity in my very excited about that you love tennis loved tennis by the imagined. Picking up your smartphone your APP controlling your grill remotely. That's what you do. Do what I did I got wreck tech grill. They're absolutely amazing. WRECK TECH GRILLS DOT COM net R.. E. C. T. E. C. grills with an s dot com. APP control started. Turn it off right. There make those pork chops as you're driving home. It's great to have you in. Doug Gottlieb in fifteen minutes. Okay the MJ DOC. The last dance has been a joy. It's a filling. It's been a great distraction during this time for many people including joy and I and last night it wrapped with the final two great episodes. I can't think of anybody in sports outside of. Tiger Woods I'd probably watch a ten part documentary. He's had enough controversy and greatness, and there's a combination of stuff what made Jordan so fascinating is there was controversy? He was fighting his GM. There was the Rodman factor. Not all great teams are fascinating I'm not sure I could watch thirty minutes of a one part documentary on the Tim Duncan Spurs I'm not sure I could get through it I, don't WanNa Watch a documentary on. Football they're just great. They're not fascinating. I can watch a FI documentary in the Miami hurricanes or p Carroll's Trojans, not all documentaries are fascinating. Michael's was. One of the takeaways and one of the things that frustrating for fans and I've always had this belief. Leave a party to early late. Nothing, but more cocktails and more dumb comments in trouble the latest data party. Come late leave early. Make an appearance have some fun. Shake some hands. Leave early. You don't WanNa. Be The last guy around the keg. Okay, you don't. and. To me, the Bulls left at the perfect time ninety eight. Now there's a lot of people. Michael Jordan at the end saying I wish we could come back for one more. No, no, no, no. This is perfect. It adds to the mythology one of the cool things about Michael Jordan's legend. There's a lot of what if with it. Not with bird not with magic. Lebron Cleveland, it's kind of pathetic it unravels. It is time, but there's a lot of what if what Jordan do six for six, but what if he didn't play baseball? He could have got eight for eight. What Jerry Krause didn't break him up. ooh, ooh Michael, and the bowls left the party just a little early, and it adds to a shoe, sales and mythology. The following year pippen was not going to stay because Houston was offering him a contract of eighty million dollars. He wasn't going to stay for fourteen in Chicago. For one year, Rodman was getting older and distracted and less consistent. Toni Kukoc was not the kind of player Michael was ever close to or could rely on. If you go back to it the ninety eight season never forget this. Phil Jackson figured it out to Phil. Jackson told Jerry Krause I'm not rebuild it. I'm out, Phil Jackson who came off greatness documentaries like boob clean out six. Is that the Spurs Dynasty at arrived. So in ninety, nine thousand nine the year. Michael Says I want to come back for one more year? The Spurs one in the playoffs. They swept the Lakers. They swept the blazers and destroyed the Nixon Five. It was Dunkin Robinson, and frankly you think Karl Malone was a bad match up for Chicago. How would have Duncan and Robinson bid? It was over. This how many close games were there? It was it was over. They were old. They were the best team, but they were winning a lot of those games. Let's be honest. Over Utah and over Indiana. In some of those games on Moxie Championship medal and the individual play by Michael. Late, it wasn't. They were steamrolling teams in fact against Utah. They didn't score one hundred points in the finals. Why because they were offensively challenged, they were only ninth in the NBA in one, thousand, nine, hundred, Ninety, eight, nine in offense that's with the greatest offensive player ever. Ninth Okay so the idea that had come back, no not to push off. Michael hit said he's holding the trophy their 6-for-6 seacrest out. It's the perfect way to do it. This is why the mythology of Michael. is almost as great as the reality of Michael. Like Michael had a lot of struggles, a lot antagonized by his own GM pippen could be unreliable. Rodman was flaky and increasingly distracted. Coach was never really like one of the guys. Steve Kerr Paxon their career. Averages are six points a game. It was perfect. They were old, tired, offensively challenged and Michael, and the Bulls left the party just a little early never too late. Now let me shift to the Scottie Pippen I covered them in Portland. Apparently. Scottie Pippen has been. Wounded is the word by the documentary and I've said this before I. Don't think. I've ever met anybody in their life. That didn't deserve their reputation I mean we earn our reputations, maybe not when you're seven eight nine ten eleven twelve years old, but by the time you're thirty, forty, fifty sixty. You are what you are good or bad. You've I've never seen a pro athlete who was a great guy with a terrible reputation. I've Jay Cutler's difficult. That's his reputation. Aaron Rodgers talented, but can be difficult. That's his reputation Dennis Rodman talented but flaky. That's his reputation. I'd say those are spot on. Okay, so Scottie. Pippen doesn't like how he's portrayed in this, but having covered him I think it's been as accurate with Scotty anybody. Scotty is seen is super talented. Vital to Michael, Jordan success. Sometimes immature pouted. They didn't bring up the DUI and the dog or the gun charge against Scotty they showed the pouting on the bench. They showed him when he basically decided. I'm not going to get rehab a surgery in the summer because I want to have a fun summer to hurt the team. When I covered Scott, I thought he was really talented. I thought he was tough as hell. I thought it was a nice guy, but I never thought he was a leader. I thought he was the classic. Great Vice President and it should be noted most great athletes are not great leaders. Jeeter was a rod was just talented. Peyton, manning and Brady are Russell Wilson is. But I can name lots of quarterbacks. I've said with Aaron, Rodgers. He's Great I. Don't know if he's a great leader. He's just really talented, but to be a great leader. You generally need examples of great leadership. Look at Scottish background and look at Michael. One of the great advantages Michael had was rock-solid parents into Dean Smith Into David. Falk into David Stern. Michael had so many amazing examples of leadership. Michael's too smart, not to have gleaned some of that off. That Scottie Pippen's background. He didn't go to a classic college. Basketball Power with the Dean Smith his upbringing from the documentary was tougher. His father had a stroke very early. He went to a small college. So when I look at Scotty Pippin I think he's an amazing. American story is that if you look at his childhood, he didn't grow up with much, and he became an unbelievable now. He's a broadcaster. He was a great player. He's a top thirty player. I've ever seen maybe a top twenty player I don't know but but to ask every athlete to be a great leader is like asking every human being on the planet to be a great leader. Isn't that that thing? We always complain about every presidential election. These are the candidates. This is what we're left with. Those are grownups. He was a kid Scotty was a great player. He's a great story, but the documentary has. Not Been Unfair. It's been reasonable that Michael was the better player and the better leader Scotty was super talented, but sometimes. You couldn't count on them in big situations. I don't think that's inappropriate, nor do I think it's unfair. I think it's what Scotty is super talented like a lot of pro athletes, but not built or not comfortable. Maybe that's a better word to take the burden of a franchise on his shoulders that that wouldn't be abnormal. That would be normal, boast twenty, one, twenty, four, twenty seven thirty two year olds. Are Not Ready. To carry like Russell, Wilson an NFL franchise. They're simply not. And if you look at Russell Wilson, and you look at Jeeter, and you look at Peyton. Manning much of the credit goes to when they were kids. And the people giving them great leadership. Ideas and paths, and so I don't think Scott has been inappropriately unfairly labeled I think it showed him as a great teammate at times sometimes. Ludi and pouty and in crisis. Sometimes he was great. Sometimes, he wasn't. He was not always bad in crisis. He was often great and crisis. The one thing that thing showed last night was how Tuffy was, and I can say this. Having covered Scotty played to a lot of injuries. He hit the deck. Was the floor allot. was never a one hundred percent healthy took care of his body played her said there's about Cam Newton. I don't love Cam Cam is hurt a lot and plan to pain a lot. That and Scotty always given credit for Doug. GOTTLIEB is around the corner. He'll be fun joining us live next door to catch live editions of the heard weekdays at noon. Eastern nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio One and the iheartradio APP pitch a free credit score card today. Even if you're not a discover customer, include your Fico Credit Score. Go to discover dot com slash credit scorecard limitations apply. Good stuff doug. GOTTLIEB and I played tennis yesterday I'm not going to divulge the outcome, even though it's very beneficial to me. And joining us now, being a coward global satellite network. I don't think either one of us is going to make the Australian Open anytime soon. We're not planning now. But but you want you want Colin one. You know you're much better than me. At this point in time. It's very much the preseason. No, we're. We're like when the Lakers and the clippers got now in play. That's that's what I would equate it. Okay Fair enough all right, so let's start with this. Everybody now says Michael Says. You know I wanted to come back for one more year. GimMe a seven championship and I'm like I. Don't know they look pretty offensively challenge Doug. What do you make the claims that they could have come back and WANNA seven? I thought Phil Jackson who didn't have a ton of input on the documentary. I thought he'd put it well. It was time to go. It just was it like. Let's let's. Let's get the context of the time. Yes, there was a lot caused a fifty game season, okay? Maybe Jordan could've gotten healthy by then, and maybe Scottie could have been healthy by then, but Dennis Rodman barely played in the NBA. He was never really the same Scottie Pippen was never really the same, and you saw how hard it was for Jordan and the. At six championship, the idea that a seventh was was possible shore. Was it likely no? This is one of those, are you? Are you somebody who leaves a party fifteen minutes earlier fifteen minutes late, and you know I think. They left it fifteen minutes early. Look Jordan things to this day. If he got shape, you could play in the NBA Jordan never thinks he would lose, so let's not take his word for it. Whether. They could have afforded it. The reality was there did need to be an overhaul of the roster whether needed to be a complete rebuild or not I don't agree that idea, but I I like that came out that Phil was offered an additional year contract I liked. It came out that Jordan, said yeah, I would have I would come back. I don't understand why they didn't get everybody in the room and try and do it all at once. that part is a flaw to. If they really wanted to make it happen, but I don't think the it was a strong likelihood. They would have done it again. The fact that they did have Michael. Jordan and they would have likely had Phil Jackson. If they could could've run it back. Aren't so Scottie Pippen who I covered Portland? I thought it was a good guy and I thought he played hurt a lot. He really he played hard, and he played hurt a lot when I was in Portland. He was on the floor a lot He and Barkley didn't get along, but I think Scotty was a better practice. Player was a little bit more driven Charles was just more talented, and they just oil and water. It didn't work, but he doesn't like the way. He's being viewed in this documentary. He thinks it's unfair. What say you? Mean he's. Hurting Scottie. Pippen is Scottie Pippen in the documentary. You know when he didn't go in against the Knicks because the play was run for Toni Kukoc, all he had to say was hey. Man Twenty six years later I wish. I had gone into the game, and I'm so happy. That Tony Coach made the shot he he wouldn't say it wouldn't say instead. He gave the whole. I should never have. But, if it happened again, I would do it again. Those are your words and on anybody else's words. I thought they tried to paint him as a sympathetic figure about the contract early on when it was his decision to sign that contract, and they didn't paint a clear picture. Jordan was massively underpaid in his until the last two years of his deal when he signed. Those those to you know thirty plus million dollar deals right with exception that Jordan was wildly underpaid because that was the time. Forget Magic Johnson signed a twenty five. Million Dollar. Deal Guy signed up for longevity guy signed up for security. That's what's. They painted him as a sympathetic figure early and late painted him as a warrior playing through injury, playing her back locked up, just went and got it out that this wasn't the director. This wasn't Michael Jordan. The only part that Paints Scottie Pippen in a negative light is. And sometimes you have to live with it, he he's a great player. He was never the the the second best player in the NBA Never Guy. But he was probably the best second player in the history of the NBA he just fit. He got it. He understood he was never a true leader, but he was a great attache. It's like a great vice. President doesn't always make. Man That guy's a great number. Two so executives today are saying. And I think players like to win, so they make it play with Michael today guys like a win. It's NBA guys moved cities and take less money because they want to win. They want to be playing May and June and sort of their shoe companies. They WANNA plan. May and June people say though Kevin. Durant couldn't played them very sensitive. Guy Mike's brutal. Do you buy that? I I agree with the premise. That some would say it would be hard for some to play with Michael Jordan. He challenged guys because he practiced so hard because he was so driven because he was unquestionably the Alpha Kobe Bryant struggled to get free agents to sign with them granted. Context is important Kobe Bryant never wanted to be number two neither did Michael Jordan Bryant skills diminished at a certain point where he had to be a number. Two that would Michael Jordan held on for three years as for Kevin. I disagree like Kevin. Durant issues with. Leaking things to the reporters Kevin Durant. Issues are with guys what he thinks are turning on him. Kevin Ransom ball guy he also. At least this is what he believes. The reason he goes back at people on twitter is because that's how he is with his buddies. They go back and forth. They talk trash to each other, and that's perfect for Michael. Jordan now. I don't know how he would fit in terms of. The confines of an offense and fit in terms of the coaching style of Phil Jackson, but I do think there are certain number of players that would have worked. It's just it's finding the right mix, and that really is maybe the best part that came from the last episode is even Scottie Pippen as? By Jerry Krause and how your cross accident? He admitted like Jerry Krause might be the best GM of all time I would say. Was Jerry West your your previous guest, but but the idea that Jerry West figured out what type of personality is what type of players could not only play for Phil Jackson and can play in the pressure of the NBA finals, but could play alongside Michael Jordan. There's like a psychological tests that he had run, and he found the right mix of guys and I think you could find the right mix of guys if you had 'em if he was empowered, would it be everybody in the League? No. No and also keep in mind one of the one of the ECHO. This sentiment is channing Frye. They'll look channing Frye obviously enjoyed his experience playing with Lebron. James But tyrod didn't game, and by the way quite Leonard had a chance to play with Lebron. James didn't want to Paul George didn't want to. How many guys have we seen? Had the opportunity to go to La and decided not to. It's it's not easy, and and the said I. Don't know if anyone said so. You can credit me with it. If you'd like, you can take it for your own is when Jordan. Jordan lost, and he obviously never lost in the finals, but lost to the magic lost to the Pistons previously when he lost, it was about Michael. Jordan failures whether it's Michael Jordan failing to trust his teammates or the coaches failing to put Michael Jordan. Position when Lebron has lost, remember with the exception of the Mavericks Series which I actually don't think was as much his fault as it's being made out to be when the bronze lost. It's always somebody else's fault. Teammates didn't step up his teammates. Kyrie was hurt kyrie laughter. Kyran Kevin love with were hurt again. Those are accurate. Accurate statements, but when Jordan lost, it was about Jordan accepted responsibility. When the BRA loss. He wouldn't personally say it, but others would echo it. Lebron did all we could, so I I do think that we're looking through it through an unfair lens of someone like channing Frye who loved playing with the Bron James and got it and taking his word for when he never experienced playing for Jordan and all he knows is watching. A documentary is an accurate portrayal, so there's a poll that came out. Seventy three percent of people said. Michael's better than Lebron. Is that surprise you at all? No I. I've always been a a Jordan as the best player. I've ever seen guy that Jordan was the guy that you knew it was coming in? There's nothing you can do to stop it case in point game six NBA finals thousand. Nine Hundred Ninety eight jazz knew it was coming. There's nothing they could do to stop it. On the other hand you and I spoke in this very same setting before the document. Did you really think he was going to have creative control of her documentary that pay him as the greatest player ever? Does that let's do a doc dot your last year, but at the end oil leaves some ambiguity as to how great your all time. It compared to everybody else right? That's not the way it works so not surprising we are. We do on the other hand you know we were were were curious creatures where the last thing we see is the most impressive thing we see and it sucks Lebron. Because he was having a marvelous season, he was leading the Lakers. They just beat the bucks. They just beating the clippers, and if this was properly timed out, it would have been a better debate now. It feels like there's no debate. Maybe we'll see if Lebron can take the Lakers, NBA short and season and win an NBA title, but that'll feel like an asterisk. I I'm not surprised I think he's wired. Wired differently I think he's probably a better all around man but I. think that Michael Jordan's the greatest player ever and the timing of the documentary and everybody watching it, and the painting of the documentary makes it so that it's really hard to find any way to put to put Lebron this point time ahead of Michael Jordan. Yeah, it'd be interesting if it'd be interesting. Joy mentioned it earlier. What if what if the playoffs for going on in the Brown was just tearing it up and he's he's beating the clippers, and then and then I think he'd have a shot. Because I do I do think Doug. If Michael if Lebron could win, a championship with the Lakers wow i. mean it'd be like Brady winning in Tampa and saying I'm GonNa to go to the chargers. It would be the one thing where I think it would give Lebron little momentum and a couple years if he won with the Lakers that. It would split down the middle. There's always going to be the loyalist to MJ but God, if Lebron could win a third championship with a third team boy. Doug. That is you. That is unbelievable in my lifetime, right? No be and I think look. There's an interesting thing here in that. Lebron has always had this kind of stack team since he left Cleveland. The first time I mean what what we forget is when he led the heat. The heat. Nali became a superpower in the east, but the Celtics aged, and then you know kicked out of legs in the Celtics and Ray Allen right the he joined forces with Chris. Bosh at completely debilitated. The Toronto Raptors were both playoff teams championship caliber at least Celtics for championship caliber teams. He took away those two contenders, and then took away Cleveland. Who is the best team the East? When he joined the heat with Dwayne, Wade, so it was like three competitors went away and they all became a super team. The West. He hasn't been able to do that with the clippers, so yes I think it would. It would make much more interesting argument the differences in wiring, though right like I thought that Jordan's desire and ability to take and make the big shot. Even early on his attacker, he had to learn to trust his teammates. Whereas the Braun has always deferred if possible, and then has had to learn to become the dynamic goto score, and even sometimes then he can lose his conscience Jordan never seem to loose confidence. Hey, I have a question for both of you guys this anonymous question. Do! The Pizza Story from one thousand nine Hundred Ninety Seven K. They had twenty three years to come up with why Jordan was sick. The flu game and this is what we're toll gate Michael Jordan. WHO's got to security guys and Tim Grover travel with. Jordan's hungry now. I don't know about you, but if Michael, Jordan hungry everybody's scurries about. Michael, Jordan took. So Michael Jordan picks up the phone and says hey. You're the only pizza place in Salt Lake City. That's open. I'm Michael Jordan bring a pizza and don't just leave it at the front door. I want you to come directly to my room. And then there's four people that come to his room like I. You couldn't come up with a better story and then that's the one pizza that. If, if one security guys got him a pizza and he happened, eat the pizza by the way crushing an entire pizza all by himself also. Hard to believe all of these things like okay I'll go along with a Lotta these stories, but I was born at night not last night well. Do you believe the pizza story why he was sick in game? Five and ninety. Yes, because as somebody who spends a lot of time in Utah it closes really early. And you know there's the old joke about spokane, Washington nothing happens in spokane after ten in the morning. Utah I can absolutely at ten o'clock in Salt Lake City. See Somebody especially in that time now it's a different time now with Uber and deliveries but Everything being closed and saying hey, man, we got you know what I could see him. They knew, but but listen Michael Jordan always did his at his hotels. He stayed under an assumed name. Hey, how did they know George Room how they know the he or the pizza? Why are there four is the delivery like an Tim grover leading us to believe that they knowingly willfully poisonous pizza or simply undercooked meat. What kind of pizza wasn't what kind of pizza? You mean to tell me that Michael? Jordan gets sick in game. Game Five Yeah, and and this is the secret and you don't know the pizza places name. Of course you do like I. Don't I'm sorry I love Michael Jordan I. Believe is the greatest player ever. I don't buy that sort of stairs way too many holes in. That's you had twenty three years. You couldn't come up with a better story. Well, that's why I believe it because you would come up with a better story, and that's not a great story, so that's probably the truth because you've come up with something way. Way slicker than that and it ends up. Being clunky I gotta go Doug Gottlieb. Do you buy I? Buy It joy? For Basketball! I can say I can see twenty years ago at ten thirty at night. Nothing's open and by the way you couldn't be wrong with this. We know that the game was on the game on a Sunday because Salt Lake. City closes down. At least it did when I was a kid and spent a summer there on Sunday. Yeah, we. There was no uber eats. Didn't Tim Grover say he was the one who called for pizzas, so it's not like Michael. Pick up the phone like Hello I'm Michael Jeffrey Jordan I'd like a pizza will you could've called and said Hey, listen man. I. It wouldn't be surprising it also at that time if you're working for. Say Know where they know how motel they're saying so someone order pizza in the middle of the night. Maybe they're all like Oh my God. Maybe we're going to get a chance to deliver this pizza. Michael Jordan How we know, Tim Grover didn't say this, they said listen. We don't deliver pizza and they said it's Michael Jordan. Yeah he goes. Do It's Michael Jordan? It okay and five guys come because they want to look at them. It could have been a pizza place to didn't have. The flu. You have like flu like symptoms for a while. Have you ever had food poisoning before twice? It's brutal. It's a nightmare for Split eight hours as yeah like it's for. The flu is going to linger for a while. Food poisoning a day maybe two and then you're. You're not feeling great, but you're. You're like he gets them fluids any. You'RE GONNA be all right. You'RE NOT GONNA lose a while I remember my first food. Poisoning I ordered a piece of fish in the desert. And, then I learned in the desert or a cow, yeah, I had Turkey Sandwich not going to say from where, but it was in theater in Los Angeles and it was undisputed, so calling out sick is kind of impossible, because you've got to get up at three o'clock in the morning, so it's Kinda hard to find someone to come in is brutal. It's it's bad or joy with news. No turn on the news. This is the heard line news. Anyway I buy it. So Ben Rothlisberger decided that he would not shave his beard until he was able to throw a past one of his teammates again following elbow surgery, she finally have an explanation for that beard, which honestly makes me feel better about the entire situation? I kind of wish. You would have said that from the beginning that I'm not going to shave until I can throw A. A pass to my teammates. Because then at least we would know walking around looking crazy well today he posted a video twitter, reminding everyone on that promise, and he showed a recent throwing session with Judy. Smith Schuster James Connor and Ryan Switzer. Also shows him getting his beard trimmed so he? He's looking normal again and at the very end Juju says he's back. Stay tuned. This is comforting to say I. could not I I got to be on? A, beard. I don't know how guys isn't it Itchy? Points where it it like as it's growing, it starts to get itchy, and and then like once it gets past that point then. It's no long way, is it? She goulet. It's hot. You get used to it and they don't really notice it anymore I. Don't I've never done that though I've never gone full living in the woods for six months weird. I feel better. I'm glad that this is not this moment. Rather Burger is living in and he's. He's throwing and feeling good working with his teammates again. If it's very comforting to see so warriors gm Bob Myers, so that they won their second straight title with Kevin. Durant in two thousand eighteen. There wasn't any joy because winning was what they were expected to do. Katie does not agree in an instagram picture showed Myers. Quote next to team celebrating and he commented comment and said that they looked happy as bleep in that. Katie is Katie is not letting anything. Slide right now, but I kind of I gotTa side with Katie on this on this point like we know that some winning that level is not fun like going to the process of that is not fun. It's supposed to be fun when you are expected to win. There's a certain amount of pressure and expectations on you. That can make the environment not very fun because you know when you're when you're playing from behind. When nobody expects you to do anything, you have a looseness and a freeness energy and the culture and. Everything surrounding your organization because you're the underdog. If you don't win, no one expected you to win. It's OK school. You cool your. I still think. I mean it I. Don't know if it's. Joy I just think there's more pressure. Because there's more pressure that can kind of take away from the fun that you're having. But as Katie said at the at the end when you're the winners, that's that's what the fund is for. I mean everything that we just watched the last dance. It didn't look like fun. This practices look like fun to you know they look very very stressful and a lot of pressure and a lot of yelling and a lot of name calling but at the. The end the champions you're the winners and nobody can ever say anything you again, and then you're happy and I think pressure is vital for life like the idea that I would live a life and never have any pressure. Isn't that kind of like important I? Don't want utopia neither do. I seems like it gives me anxiety to even think about that. You have to have ups and is I. Start Fights with my wife just to make it interesting. To go that far, but this I and you need to have spaces in your life where it's drama free for sure the last weekend. She looked at me. She goes. You're just picking fights today and I'm like yeah. I think I am. Just being just a feisty funny day, she just looked at me and she says I'm about done with you. Know what I told my wife I get home now. At twelve thirty, wife said to me. She said. I signed up for better or worse not for lunch. Go find something to do. That's understandable though, don't you? Miss you a little bit, don't you love me? She was no sign up for lunch. Go get busy. Go play tennis. Go for a walk or something. Finally yesterday NASCAR had their first race since early. March and Kevin Harvick one at Darlington over six point, three million viewers watched on Fox, which was the most watched non Daytona five hundred NASCAR race in over three years, and we've got another race at Darlington. Tonight. Yeah, so goulet NASCAR Fan. I know you're watching that Goulet was betting on it. I was betting on it I also had Kevin Harvick win. That was eight to one so low got lots of the weekend's threat Lug nut locks of the week by Goulet exciting better. goodstuff joy with the news. Well that's the news. Thanks for stopping by. Heard lie. Our final one. We call it up down sideways. We watched the MJ documentary. It's complete now. Who Do I feel better about? Who Do I feel worse about? and WHO's about the same up down sideways with MJ in the last dance coming up, be sure to catch live additions of the heard weekdays at noon, eastern nine am Pacific on Fox sports radio s one and the iheartradio APP. Everything going on, people get anxious. Check it out. ANDROID RELAX DOT, com, fifty percent off. DRIVER LIKES DOT COM. It'll chilly out so last dance We watch the last dance. I got to tell you something it was. It was five Mondays of great content. I am really crossing my fingers that I get some more days of content coming up. Baseball worries me a little bit with their labor disharmony. We're trying to get rob Manfred the commissioner baseball on this week. I am very encouraged by what I hear from the Sec College Football Programs Hey I love college football. You GimMe College. Football I'm I'm good. We just need a bridge for about three months for college football, maybe two. I only have so much vacation time I. Need something folks, so we thought we'd been doing this every Monday during the last five weeks that we look and this is our last one. Do we think more or about the same of the stars of this here we go? All right Michael Jordan. Is he trending up down or sideways? He is `perfect, and it was rough on people and occasionally mean, but I think he trends up. The flu game was actually Pizza He said he would have played the following season. You know. He held grudges. He created some. Some grudges that didn't really exist guineas imperfect, but I think. What he, did do. Is that he signalled back to a time where the NBA was really physical and really tough, and I think what you figure out that success is hard. It's not linear. He had obstacles even the final game of his career in in for the Bulls Scottie Pippen's back gives out, and they became really a one dimensional scoring offense is east playing. The Utah Jazz with two Hall of Famers in Utah, which may have been at the time, the toughest place to plan the NBA, even his last win was hard they became a very offensively challenge team in ninety eight, and then when and went belly up physically they were really limited, so he trends up speaking of Pippin Scottie. Pippen trending up down or sideways sideways for me, because I covered him. I thought he was really talented the Best Rodman in league history. Played Hard and. I thought he was I never thought he was a great leader. I don't be was built for that. and there are times it could be moody, temperamental mature. I don't think have been no. I mean I feel like it's it's. It traded mostly as a guide. Tough childhood played hard, played hurt, and at times made some really poor decisions I. think the bad moments were kind of Scotty induced. Rod Zillah. Tennis Rodman, up down or sideways he turns down for me. The more the more I see Rodman the more irritating. He is very self absorbed. At. The Andy Wasn't a great basketball player. He had great moments. It was mostly about Rodman. I just never bail on my team to do that stuff. It's not how I'm built. And by the way I can be selfish, too. I mean it's just I think I. Don't think Rodman's nearly as fascinating as we think. He was young now he is a remarkably great rebounder, and his story is full of obstacles that he's overcome so I, respect him, but for me, not a guy that age is well I. See him as a little needy for my for my taste, a different world right now. Who ww even let a basketball player do that now. It's crazy Steve Kerr up down or sideways. I think just. When you hear the story of his father He's lived an incredible life. I mean good guy player. I like how he saw packs, and then he's like okay. That's going to be my role. I'm going to do the packs enroll. Yeah and I mean. I. Think I liked Michael, reaching out to him like Steve hit big shots, like like Michael, generally had that one guy that wasn't a great player, but was a great big game shooter. Was Paxton first and then it was Kerr so i. want you hear his life story? It's it's you see why he's political. You'll see why stuff matters to him beyond sports. Yeah! Phil Jackson up down, or sideways big up. Michael. I think Michael Jordan's Mom Mike Lynn. Phil Jackson or the big ups. Got Michael the write a poem. To be able to harness. It Jerry, krause and Dennis Rodman than the international player Mike, Lynch Scotty, resented and then Scott. Saying I'm not gonNA have a surgery. During you know in the summer and it was a real balancing a lot of egos and a lot of plates in a lot of drama. I'm not sure joy. I'm not sure any coach in league history can handle that I mean it's unbelievable I. Think fill is one a in this documentary and knowing when it was over just like having the wherewithal to not take the bait for one more one more season I just blown away. I'd love, Gif feel on the show. I know he doesn't like me. He did bump into my wife at a physical therapist and they got along. Really should come on the show I think he'd be great. An unbelievable amount of patience incredible remarks. He has skills I. Don't like his ability to handle Rodman. Just don't have it. I'm not equipped. Jerry Krause trending up down or sideways trending down I. Knew I could almost go sideways. It just just everybody they want. They never won more than thirty games. When that team broke up so the rebuild the brilliant rebuild was a disaster tarred not to in thirty five forty games in the NBA. Just play hard so I still think they should have gone to I think he should have managed it better in Ghana. Michael, and in Fillon said listen. Can I, just we'RE GOING TO LOSE SCOTTIE? Pippen, CA, Scott. He's not gonna stay for the money. Can I move Rodman and get a younger piece again? I think managing. GM's job is to manage egos and manage expectations and I think he did a poor job I do think he had a great eye for talent. He did a lot of good things, but he didn't manage Ya Michael Jordan got to manage. It yet lubricated. You gotta get. Don't make it agitating lubricated. Don't agitate it. How about Jerry REINSDORF turning up down or Up I came in with a very low opinion of him that he was cheap. And Vice of, but you know in the end I found out that he did call Phil Jackson and say you're welcome to come back I'd like to have you come back. Please come back. Please that one a long way with me. So I I again I came with pretty low expectation that he was cheap baseball guy, but I think he came across in this mostly as level headed, which across did not cross look, drudge, holding and petty. Wasn't that wild them showing him showing Michael. The footage of Jerry reinsdorf saying that to the very end. Finally Lebron James up down or sideways well, he's trending down because he's inactive I think if Lebron was playing right now. The fact that Lebron like everybody else watching the greatness of Michael Jordan I think it separated the gap. There was a gap there, but inactivity for Lebron hurts him, and it's not his fault, but I think and I also think the old school Alpha is really attractive. You Know Society's got in. You know a little more finesse remember ten years ago, it was called Metro sexual and guys and evolved, and I I think there is that Alpha thing that a lot of guys like the Chop Wood and be guys, and they don't always want to be evolved sometimes. We just need to go out and have the speed bag and punch it and. Do Dumb stuff. Yeah, we got to feel like a guy sometimes and it's OK. Women feel like a women. We like to feel like guys. Sometimes we're Matt. We're meet heads sometimes. Only, being a meathead. I'm picking fights with my wife I'm a meat head, but sometimes I just got to get that stuff out all right. We're done. We got through Jerry. West was great Doug, gottlieb. Jay Don Dante. Hit it out of the park out of the park. All right for join everybody here. We will be back tomorrow. I'm Jensen carpet. I want you to listen to the new podcast from Shreveport Media iheartradio called the no supports report with Jensen cars. You see I'm a comedy writer. A die hard sports fan who was terribly missing the athletes I love so much so every episode I'm talking to them. The best athletes coaches commentators legends from around the world to see what they're doing now. We're all stuck on our CAP. On this podcast will heroes, sports figures are entertain themselves and their families. We'll find out if they're staying in shape. If their kids heckling them during homeschool, did they almost burn down the house trying to make their own bread? Are they sleeping in their jerseys? And like? I do not know, just meet all right. Some of my favorite episodes have been hearing boxing legend sugar. Ray Leonard Talk about staying in shape and a driveway. Working out ten is working whatever you can do. Much better or having Jay Williams explain his crazy NBA ship idea of these cruise liners are massive, okay, and getting Olympic Sweetheart Adam Ripon to critique my quarantine fifth that screens to me. I don't care, listen to the no sports report now and subscribe on the iheartradio. APP APPLE PODCASTS or wherever you get podcasts? Renowned Buddhist, author and teacher Jarvis Masters has steadfastly maintained his innocence since he was sentenced to death almost thirty years ago on a new podcast. Dear Governor Jarvis poses the question. Can. There have to be there. By the execution of one. Man From the confines of his nine by four sell in San Quentin Jarvis, will share his riveting life story how he managed to maintain a sense of optimism in the most dire circumstances are their. Their mind by now. I think I'm Vibert. Housing provide the details of the bloody murder and trial that landed him on debt. I really believe that they found that women. I would get charged. Here details from inside the courtroom as attorneys fight for his final state appeal with newly disclosed evidence to posters has claims of innocence. Will the California Supreme Court exonerate him? A reaffirm his death sentence. Listen to dear governor on the iheartradio APP on Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.