Episode 354: Skinwalker Ranch Part III - The Investigation


Everybody holding here, I'm Jake, and we're here to tell you about the wizard and the bruiser podcast pike, winch, take any subject in culture. And in fandom. We talk about comic books and movies on new may we explain just what all the fuss is about. And this isn't just white guys. Talk about the stuff they read on the internet this way. It's not just these are deep dives into the hidden histories of all these franchises that you think, you know, the story behind, but you have no idea how deep the hole gets we cover. Spawn. We cover wonder woman we cover dragon ball z. We cover the thing. We're talking about the film, the thin and not the secret that we must never met. So join us for was in the bruiser podcast on L P N. No place to escape to the loss on the left. That's one the cannibalism started. Wouldn't it be amazing to scam? The government for twenty two million dollars two million listeners rate because everyone's talking about rubber Bigalow? He scare the US government. Revel? Is you affoil research like yell? The US government in order to do his frivolous. You Afo research seriously. It's our tax dollars. I would love if more of those tax dollars went to alien research to I wouldn't spend most of my time turning our money into cash into valuable gems. In various locations, like my financial hor cruxes. This is the last podcast on the left everyone. I am Ben Kissel with Marcus bugs good afternoon. Good afternoon and then beautiful and sunny, I'm extremely jealous of Henry's Abrazos game. Yeah. Feel in tan. This is the Tanna suppose. This is the Tange. This is the most Tammist tan. Yeah. The Mohand poll is person alive. Henry's brow gate, which means what I'm entirely fuchsia -solutely. I am very burnt today. Because I stood outside of an audition for fifteen minutes in direct. Sunlight, Chris, well, can you read the cue imagine that not only mine not paying the government any money? The government is giving me money to be me its welfare, but the for the very clever. Absolutely. I think that's wonderful. I supported wholeheartedly. Okay. Today. We are concluding our series on. I mean, honestly, this has been a hit. Yeah. This series has been. A mad that it's over. Well, you know, what we'll find another subject for you to chew on. And you're gonna love it. All right. We are onto skin Walker ranch part three. So when we last left the Gorman family the story that brought the skin Walker rant story to the world. Had just been published in the desert news and people had begun showing up at the ranch. It did the exact opposite of what the Gorman family wanted. Which is of course, it did. You just told the whole world what was happening over there. So everyone of these FOX and by these folks, I mean me showing up at the ranch will I mean once you get published in the desert news about the k-, the desert knows it's actually one of the biggest newspapers in Utah out of Salt Lake City. It is one off Vegas newspapers in Utah. You're liable. Chain judgmental Joan today about the Nevada. One of the biggest in Utah. I to UFO investigators came knocking at Tom's door of because Tom didn't like the cut of their Jim for whatever reason he turned him away. Hi, Tammy got an X to flat, south third Takhar. Oh, no, no, sign authors. That's that cannot meet your son. Oh. Oh my goodness. I mean, can you imagine the Cal? What is it a Calva Cade cavalcade cavalcade of people go into his door that would be fascinating. But others. Besides well-wishers. Had also started to arrive. A woman opened up the gates of skin Walker ranch herself and showed up at Tom's homestead unannounced one day incoherent and fully admitting that she was extremely mentally ill. Yeah. Let's start out of that. Doing great today. If you wearing a bathrobe, and I'm not at a spa. I like that though, she's with it. But as she was talking to Tom a nearby tree started violently shaking despite there being not a hint of wind in the air. The woman responded by pointing at the tree in screaming that it was filled with legions of demons and monsters until you what you crazy woman. You ain't. All it's either legions of demons and monsters or those cute. Squirrels from the Geico commercial reread the Geico commercials. I know the one we're the squirrel gets in front of the car and the car crashes, and they high five that's murder. My friends little squirrel really is. But can you imagine Tom doing the same cattleman move on this woman where he grabs her me? Like, you need a stop touching me or on you. His move poor, Tom. So it seemed that Tom needed help more than ever. But little did he know that there was a certain multi-millionaire paranormal enthusiasts named Bob. Bigelow trolling newspapers for hints at the big score. You know, Bobby Bigalow was getting newspapers from all over the world because of his far reach with the budget inns and suites. That's right, Bob, Bigelow made his money at the budget in sweets budget is sweets. I love the budget in sweets because in the elevator. They always have ads like recently, divorced. For you. Oh, yeah. He knows what to do, Tom. Gorman had given Bob exactly what he wanted out of everyone and the paranormal community Bigalow is without a doubt the man who over the years has pumped the most cash into nuts and bolts research, and as always goes this makes him a target for the conspiracy community. It's the UFO community who I love, and we'll defend as much as possible until they become a liability. Is that really true though, did you attempt to go to a UFO comedian? And then slowly walk out feeling was funny, welcoming scenario was in a very dark church. I was watching a man giving other a shoulder. Rub. And there was nobody else in there. This true. Just literally opened the door. I had like a UFO shirt on my NASA hat on. I was ready to be at and it was just like poorly lit weird little church and just two men in the back of it. And the meeting has supposed to start in five minutes. There was nobody there. And I was like let me just. A message. The problem with a UFO community is very similar to one of the parties that we deal with politically in this fucking country of ours. Where even the biggest heroes of the party are vilified destroyed by the entire community for the slightest little things and Robert Bigelow is he was so important, you apologize. And then we chased him out by conspiracy theories by using our own brains against him. Right. Leave Bigalow alone. It's been said that he's everything from a secret mobster to a government Schill to a naked opportunist to frontman for the church of Scientology will honestly, you cannot be a secret mobster, Noah mobster. They're very proud of being a mobster. And that's all that they are. No because they always say the same term a and Noah guy. I do know guy. Our estimation Bob Bigelow, just digs aliens heats raised. I watch him talk. I watch endless hours of him talking this everything I could find and he seems to be genuinely into you. And honestly in this in this country. Is there really anything wrong with being naked opportunist if you have pants on? Eagle. It's only legal. It's what our country is built upon. Tune in. Exactly. And now that we've come out in favour about Bigalow. Now, we're going to get called show. Our now. Now still. We've already been called shows before we've gotten quite a few emails about our twenty three and me sponsorship. View guys. Did it? I'm not the Schill. News emails. You as a true satanist? I don't give a fuck. What my Cologne is doing. Yeah. Put him to hard work. I'll tell you. What Henry could use a little hard worth hands a real soft? Yeah. Well, that's one of the major flaws, and they knew horror movie happy birthday to you. What's the other part of her doing cloned doing in the other dimension? I didn't even know there was a clone or another time travel's involved. I think it's one of those Symbian movies could be. Ashim that you sit on. And then if you're a lady makes you feel really good. Yeah. How was it Symbian movie? I'm saying that's the other woman is herald. Other parallel. One of those documentaries. Well, nothing I think about a movie theaters movie theaters are struggling to get butts in the seats. They're thinking about butts. They gotta think about fronts Scipion shares on dildo seat. Far out, man. So this coming up. We'll skin Walker ranch. Was by no means Bob Douglas first rodeo in nineteen Ninety-four Bigalow. Formed an alliance of three the biggest UFO organizations move on coup, folks and fo-for. Don't make fun. Fo-for? What does for stand for? Organizing reality. It gets the fun for UFO research. Okay. Coup for fo-for. All right. See it was Bigalow. Observations that the biggest problem behind you. If oh research was a lack of funding. Yeah. So Bigalow formed has new organization known as the UFO research coalition and gave millions in funding. He only had one condition work together. All of you fucking hurt. Get together and use my money. I don't know even officially call the Afo research coalition 'cause they're a little programs that he like we're kind of if your full on you apologised just fucking bear with us. We're trying to explain this to many people's humanly possible when it comes down to it. He really did try to unite the world of you afoul Aji insane. Fucking bunch of money y'all go put it where your mouth is. Let's do this actually don't put in your mouth 'cause money's dirty. Full of drugs, but guess what they did Marcus and Kissel. What do they do in the words of George Knapp as he said in the documentary hunt for the skin Walker? They fucked it up. Really did up because Bob Bigelow said like listen, I have a private jet. I have millions of dollars UFO citing happens. You guys can be on this private jet in an hour and a half be out there. You can research all the shit. All you gotta do is work together. But since nobody could agree on who would be in control in since none of their pride aside as it always is research Bigalow pulled out. Honestly, we could replace the words ufologist Ufology follow just you could replace the word Ufologists with libertarian. All makes total sense to me at world after they go after Bigelow, and they start saying big lows in the hands of the government. He's doing all this shit Bigalow. Taking money from the government and giving to you. You know, what you do as you have researcher and what I've learned from entertainment. You just go, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, cover your eyes fingers in years ago. Well, i'll. And you go when you fund some fucking Yip. Well, there are people out there that you follow that completely deny any sort of government or military funding actually jot fillet one of Henry's favorites like is staunchly against taking any sort of government or military funding. Why the government is actually trying to give you something for something? Cool. No, I understand if you actually have principles. That's where comes down to that. You really want to question the source of your money. I am obviously being I am a nude opportunist in many ways and understand that there's maybe a means to the ends. And the means we're we had to do. But I do understand why they are reluctant to if government, especially if you believe that the government has been against disclosure that the government has been covering up their research on you, a foes, why would you fuck trust the government? Oh my God. I mean, if you don't take it's just going to go to Pat Roberts. Once again, the seven hundred club to keep them alive. Yeah. I mean, do you knew imagine how much government money that it takes to keep that poor skeleton alive? Well, back when Bigalow was doing this coalition. He did not have access to government funds. Just yet. This was still his own money Jin's money. Yeah. This is dad's. Yeah. And these guys were not they did not fuck this up because they didn't like where the money was coming from. They fucked it up because they could not work together. So instead of using stabbed UFO networks who clearly couldn't get their shit together. Care more about getting credit than discovering truth Bigalow. Created his own investigative body from scratch that was the National Institute for discovery science. Most commonly known as nibs good acronym. I'm gonna say this. Come to put money into you Afo group. The first thing is the acronym. Yeah. I wanna do something called like suds. When we have to work out. What it is sexy underdevelopment Dr sandwich. To do with you. Dip sounds like did with the Di knits sounds like humanoid creatures that kind of live in the sewers or disease that can kill your toddler. It is one of the doesn't if you're in the doctor's like, you've got knits. No way. It's like that means you have extra strong cement. It's like. You're guaranteed to be muscular and smart, the knits had some actual mainstream. Heavy hitters on their team. Science wise respected individuals in their field with real crit. Bigalow was totally done with dealing with straight up UFO nerves from what comb Kelleher author of the hunt for the skin Walker says or co author of haunt for the skin Walker. What he says is that they were field guys and board guys the field. Guys would go out collect data and present it to the guys on the board for review, but that was a problem here mainstream. Scientists don't like to attach their name to paranormal studies of any kind or studies that could even be remotely considered paranormal nets because the world of science is so Steffi that working on paranormal. Studies can turn to a huge black Mark on one's reputation. And the reason why I can't be an anesthesiologist. I really though that is confusing to me black holes parallel universes. All that. Stuff is kind of science based right? He's very science based what I'm saying this. If you're a scientist paranormal studies seems like it's a relatively, you know, it seems on the same footing to me. Oh, you are. You are if you read the differences between the way people believe in you, obviously, we already know a lot of just the all of this stuff wouldn't between cryptos and any sort of things in the relevant paranormal. If you're going to be pro it you have to be very passionate like four it. Right. You have to fight for the cause of the proof of the paranormal because what we're witnessing skin Walker ranch. A lot of it has to do with witness testimony a lot of it's circumstantial evidence. So a lot of it has to do with the fucking kind of blind faith that it's real. And that's the exact opposite of what's how scientists work. Scientists are supposed to in the work in the world of repeated experimental factors. She's supposed to be able to set the whole shit up and do it again, exactly the same way and get the same the same things out of the problem with studying all of his witty shit as it. No one can really figure out how to properly set up the experiments and actually get recordable results. So scientists plu play in this world. Yeah. Times become like comb Keller. Her where it's like where I think there's a lot of people like people said about j Allen Hynek when he was working on project blue book as that he the a lot of people kind of question. The fact that he switched into becoming a believer of UFO's over his time working with project. Blue book comb Kelleher is the same way soon as got involved in skin Walker ranch apiece started this hardcore scientists saying we are going fucking map the world of ghosts in UFO's. Ask him. What ranch we're going to do it for the fucking science papers? And we're going to do it legit. And as soon as you start showing up and all of a sudden, he's start seeing words like vibe. Scientists are out. And so this don't wanna touch it with a ten foot pole. Well, that's really interesting you say that because in happy birthday to you. It's actually like sophomores in in college team with the sheep. Are you getting paid by happy birthday to you know, I actually thought the kills could have been better. But it is interesting perspective when? No, there's there's an orb, and then there's going around it. And then there's time Trump's scary stories. Because the world of science frowns on even curiosity in paranormal studies, we don't actually know who most of the people on the knits board actually were and you might say how convenient and honestly I got nothing to refute that it is frustrating to not know who these people are in fact, even the conspiracy world has its suspicions about neds. Some think that it's part of a secret organization called the aviary. Complete Scott codenames like the hour and penguin and. And. Only purpose is to keep evidence of alien encounters a secret or at the very least controlled flow of information about control information because of every boob in the world can get it. Then the value of decreases. Sure. But regardless of who was involved with knits. There's no doubt that the men at the top was Bob Bigelow a few weeks after the desert news story hit Bob took his private jet from Las Vegas and made a visit to skin Walker ranch. Once there he spoke with Tom. Gorman heard the stories and made an offer on the spot to buy the ranch for two hundred thousand dollars. Good money. Tom who's losing his shirt on all these missing and cattle jumped at the chance and moved his family to another inch twenty five miles away. They just want shirts. Sure losing court. There was a very interesting interview with Eric Davis who ended up being revealed as one of the knits team after skin hunt for the skin. Walker was published. I he did his interview with this self-styled, like new female version of art bell or name is Erika Luke's that does a show at of Las Vegas. That's pretty fun. And she's trying to put a new hip spin. Newel follow g and all the research the paranormal, but Eric Davis talks about how he read a news paper ad in classified saying looking for scientists to research the paranormal, and he was a guy with a long list of like of credits. I don't know what the term is for scientists showed up credentials. They call them credential actors have credit scientists have no I lived in. And so Eric Eric Davis said that who is race stance in real life. He is he is him. So he sat down with with Bobby and Bobby was like, what are we gonna? They'll what are we doing? We'll zip zap full swing these wolves. We're gonna put them in a net and Eric Davis. There's many ways that we could. And he booked on spot. He's like you're in your my gay gay. And so they went to Vegas, and he said Eric Davis standing all happen within like three days. You got hired. He sat with Bob. Bigelow. He walked in. He heard the story. That's all I need to eat easy money him. Go single someone each one of them in this case. Now, they've put ghosts in the suit. That right. Wow. Thing was even though Tom sold the ranch. He wasn't ready to give up the mystery. Just yet even though he didn't cut and all that SAFA nonsense. This man had lost a lot of time. No lot of money and a lot of cows over the previous eighteen months, and he was going to be God damn if he was going to get out of the game without at least trying to figure out what had happened. That's the farmers trifecta. No want that. So Tom stayed on as the official nibs ranch manager because Bigelow purchased a few cows as baked. Oh, yeah. Have that one? And Tom he kept working the ranch. He even kept some of his own cows there and that might sound dumb. But it's very possible that his new ranch just didn't have the area necessary to handle his whole herd. Goes it's hard to handle the whole herd. I will say to this is where the time line in the book. It's pretty murky. They don't really kind of talk about this is the kinda shit. That's that's hard to track. If you're want to say that all this stuff's real because Tom Gorman like kind of stayed on even though he was really scared. Right. Like he came in he stayed into. But a part of it. I think I don't know. I'm not a rancher man feel a Kinman to their land. I think they do it. You can. But I think what it seems like to me if I was fired. I guess he probably moved to a smaller ranch that just wasn't big enough to handle all the cow every head Akao that he had. I mean, he must love ranch in two hundred K you got that in the Bank. Sell all of your cattle and just go and move into a nice, little condo. Yeah. He's he's a Catalans. All he knows. Oh, my good. What would you do? Someone told you to just give up on right? Here's two hundred thousand dollars give up on radio and everything one hundred thousand I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't do two thousand loves the microphone too much the smell. He loves the feel of the cylinder and his hands. His lips. I love the way that the boom would the spit. Shields, smells, like ten years of talking. I got Ed Larssen was in here last night. So my speech shield, smells, like ham and beer. But regardless of what Tom's business was skin. Walker ranch was perfect for the purposes of Mid's these guys needed a full on laboratory for paranormal research a place where actively was guaranteed and now they had it. But here's the question. And it's a question that is played paranormal. Researchers both professional and amateur for decades is it what are women thinking. Just the first you g magazine, what are women thinking just several UFO guys with the map of a woman's mind that has. Here's the question is it possible to want it too bad. Furthermore, is it possible? That observation ruins the experience. This is where it's hard for scientists will according the Tom Gorman heavy-handedness might have sunk this thing from the beginning cosc- nibs plan to come to the property with a trailer. Command post observation decks cameras the whole nine yards. We wanted to hatch the wanted to catch when orbs attack they wanted to see the shit that was the whole point. But Tom he'd spent a lot of time rolling around in the hay watching these orbs. Remember that from last episode where literally discovered hiding in the hey allowed him to see the orbs better. So he became a looney tunes cartoon of. Pile watching things in the sky. Oh, he'd spent eighteen months trying to capture this thing on it. 'cause he said that there was one time where he did actually burrow into the hey with video camera trying to capture something on camera, but he could not do it. Because what his perspective was is that this thing needed to be haunted like a wild animal like intelligent game is one thing. We're gonna find out that this thing. Whatever it is it skittish when it comes to being recorded inits coming out with all this equipment. I mean, it's like building a cabin in the middle of the Seren Getty hope in a hotlines from your front porch. It's just not gonna work. Good luck with that. Yeah. Which pay guy to come drug the lions, right and bring them over to the house, and then you shoot him in the head in the living room. Real brave hero, he'll hunter. So they wanted it too much. Maybe just didn't understand you gotta be about this stuff. Tom. Gorman has developed a sort of personal relationship with whatever's happening on this ranch again, if you believe him so part of it is the is that which is what people have said time and time again about this type of phenomenon is that he believes he's developed this communication, and so when these guys will show up with the clipboards and video cameras. He's like we got a sneak, man. Yeah. I got a sneak and be real quiet and Eric Davis. Like I brought by photo Cameron. Oh my goodness. Gorman didn't like the technique. He just thought maybe they were going about it the wrong way. Yeah. But that doesn't mean that the experiences ended with the arrival of knits far from it. In fact, some of the stranger in more fascinating stories in the skin Walker ranch. Saga are still to come. And some were experienced by nibs, scientists themselves. I will give them credit because when the knit scientists I showed up these spent the I wanna say they said, they spent the first month with no equipment. Yeah. They came and just personal observation which is where a lot of these first stories start happening where they came and they wanted to get a lay of the land and Robert Bigelow was out there because Davis was like, you wouldn't even meet a more regular man than Bobby because Bobby, you know, he'd make you tuna sandwich. And you know, he's a he's a billionaire you'd come in there, and he'd say, you're hungry, and he'd poor you boneless cereals, I started thinking about like what man. Pours Bulla series. You gotta put the milk in with the cereal in the box. And pour it all out together. Do that. But no. But you know, I mean, it's just weird food to serve a friend. Yeah. Oh, yeah. But the fact remains that the knits field team was never able to capture proof that satisfied the review board or even themselves in a scientific sense. All we have is what these people saw with their own eyes. And it's up to you. If you believe them, so without further ado, let's explore some of the things those men saw during their eight years studying skin Walker ranch a study that was by far the most intensive and expensive private investigation into the paranormal that there's ever been that is eight year eight year been doing this show for nine ten years nine. Yeah. I think it'll be ten years next summer that is such a I think about that. It's so locked. Yes. So much work. And at least we can like have something to show for it. No. That for the just talked about the story. They didn't even get a single picture as far as we know because then we'll get into. To whether or not they're holding onto that. Oh, you they're holding not data. So in September of nineteen Ninety-six comb Kelleher and a physicist and a veterinarian who did not want to be named moved into an observation trailer on skin Walker ranch and started watching why wouldn't the veterinarian want to be named? No dog is going to be like, no, I want him up on me. Goes I think that better veterinarians or a little like, you know, I'm still a doctor. It's cute. Episode of last podcast on the left is brought to you by stamps dot com. Who really has time to go to the post office? I sure don't between all that traffic parking and lugging your mail and packages, it's a real hassle. That's why you need to dot com. One of the most popular time saving tools for small businesses. Samsa com eliminates trips to the post office and saves you money with discounts that you can't even get at the post office. 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The shows you love and lugging a bunch of merch packages onto the subway takes valuable time stamps dot com. Shipping on t shirts pins detect popcorn. Plus, she's a breeze right now. Our listeners get a special offer that includes a four week trial, plus free postage and a digital scale without any long term commitment. Just go to SAM's dot com. Click on the microphone at the top of the homepage and type in left that stamps dot com. Enter left. They figured they'd start off by examining the land for any natural explanation such as geological or magnetic anomalies. Furthermore, since they were well aware of the psychedelic nature of the sightings. They did full tests on the ranches vegetation and drinking water to rule out hallucinogenic elements, of course, both came back negative, dammit. You know, one guy was like, a really hope this is fucking acid lake. My own true. Gms. It wasn't too long before the team spotted something Tom the two unnamed scientists and comb witnessed alight hovering in the distance moving. Unlike any craft any of them had ever seen frustratingly though, as it always is the object was too far away to be captured on video, and the photos only showed something that put out about as much light as a bright star combed described the citing quote mundane. Then a month later whole team of scientists witnessed a silent Gallo light. Fly a perfect circle about their heads than the thing headed north into the distance. But it all happened too fast for them to film it, and for those of you think again, how convenient think how often you've tried to just pull your phone out of your pocket and record something while it's happening and failed. Oh, absolutely. Every time. I see a celebrity just pull it out that say capture. T- t swift are you or your text? But now imagine you got to unpack a cumbersome shoulder mounted tape recorder in the same amount of time. In other words, capture in this stuff, isn't easy, and it absolutely was not easy in nineteen ninety five for a while. Those two sidings were the only things that happened months passed without the phenomena showing it self once it seemed that either the phenomenon had gone into hiding or Tom had been telling a few tall tales, small Thomas still opening doors with a gun. Millions in the bathroom team to even return to Las Vegas for the winner. As the UN to basin can reach temperatures of thirty below at its coldest. It is miserable out there. And there was a slight mutilation of three calves who received an ear injuries. But it wasn't enough to kill him. It wasn't really anything. Big. No. This is weird ship where they found a calf would look like a drill hole in. It's fucking. I, and they didn't know what the hell was. But they're still like Mamie foul on fans. Weird. Yeah. They brought a couple of vets out in one of them said like, I don't know what the fuck that is. And the other one was like ATs cat. That's yeah. Can't did that. Well, no, obviously, you're not a very good veterinarian. That's baby. Oh. You idiot. Everything's the cat. If you just think about it like, it's a cat. But then on March tenth the phenomenon returned with a vengeance on that day, Tom and Ellen were checking on the skin Walker cattle, which is they just kinda had small hurt out there, and that heard included a cow and her newborn calf a said they left the heard for about forty minutes to attend to other business only a few hundred yards away when they returned. They found a gruesome horrifying scene. The mother cow had been injured and was limping away. But the calf looked is if it had been ripped apart and scooped clean. Ooh. Three of its legs were splayed out on the grass as if in presentation while the fourth leg had been torn away and thrown clear, the torso had been completely opened up. And all that was left of the body. Cavity was a mangled cage of broken ribs. The most unnerving detail. However was that despite all this. There was not a drop of blood anywhere own my God creepy. They said that look like something had actually vacuumed out all of the blood pink can clean and all the guts were gone. Yeah. And it was splayed open. Like like, a one of again of a woman from one of those documentaries. Well, that's interesting now that'd be a great infomercial for the vacuum. They could hold a bowling ball. Okay. Buddy. Yes. I should've been open four Solis. Backs really really really a hell of H back right there in this story. Didn't just come from Tom the state of this calf was confirmed by comb Kelleher who upon receiving Tom's call made use of big lows resources and was on his way to skin Walker ranch in Bigalow. Jet within an hour and a half shoes. And of course, he couldn't help. But take jab at the researchers who missed out on big lows. Millions by writing this in the hunt for the skin Walker, quote, mo- Selva, scientists investigating the paranormal couldn't even afford to rent a cough for the weekend. Wow. What did this roast battle? What is happening? What they sing. Move money move. Pro. Wow. I killed my wife. Roasti scientists that needs to be a show, but combs smugness aside, he discovered even more upon examining the animal besides just being completely drained of blood and guts, the calf's left ear had been cleanly cut by something sharp in bit removed from the skull completely. It seems like this was the moment that the phenomenon decided to show itself to the knits team because that wasn't even close to the strangest thing that happened on March tenth at about eleven pm that night comb, the physicist and Tom were startled by the sound of Tom's dogs. How embarking the three hopped and Tom's truck which Tom had set up with the strong spotlight which strong spotlight essential tool for cattle, rancher right? So the three sped off into the darkness to see what they can find. And soon saw something large that appeared to maybe a cow standing in shadow and heath large tree. Ooh. If. That's that's my wife. Don't say. This is really, but this is very paranoid. Right. 'cause Tom Gorman has been saying this whole time in like, y'all still don't believe me gallon and believe me, and they're like, okay. So they're out there. And all of a sudden, you see this can shadow in the dark, and then these fucking Arabs come shooting out of it. Yeah. Right. Suddenly two orbs of yellow light appeared in the branches. And it's Tom and the other sped towards it. They saw a gigantic animal of some sort perched twenty feet up in the tree. So Tom who'd been itching for something flesh and blood to kill pulled out his rifle aimed and fired. Do not about three tree goes. The lights instantly went out upon the firing of the rifle. And Tom said that he saw the creature fall to the ground. But when they got back in the truck drove closer, they found nothing. No blood, nothing at all. No, big monster. No, big Monceau, man. Then Tom saw something else a different creature. He raised his rifle again and fired twice again, Tom. We sure he hit something they found nobody and no blood what they did. Find was a single oval track in bedded six inches into the snow and appeared to them that whatever it was had two claws protruding from the back of its foot like a bird of prey and another track of the exact same kind was found twenty feet away. And how is it? Com. Mad do shoot dysfunc-. Hate still orbs. He's, but he knows he can't shoot to orbs because he tried and knows that big wolf everybody early shot the wolf a couple times too. And it did nothing. So I don't know what he's expecting. Now. You know, and it said that they had a footprint, but it's in the snow. You can't keep it. You can't keep it took video that took pictures. Okay. That's right. My friend, Ben he is the most useless native American. I've ever. Well. You know, you can't keep foot tracks in the snow. Anyway, I was I did tell someone Henry's Bigfoot track story the other day when we were. One of the only ones left he had. He was talking to this guy for like ten minutes. Kabakov Henry was talking to the Bigfoot hunter. And the guys like this is the only one we have. From blue hill, citing its special, really. And and I got to tell you this last one I got and I'm like, all right? Sixty five dollars right for fucking plaster ballots bought it, and I was like I feel really good. I got up like, you know, Natalie you will love me mentally will love this turn around. And I want to look around and pull another one out of a big Tupperware. A great little plaster cast of big foot of book foot in looks cool. It looks nice on your mantle yet. Does look cool. Well, these two creatures were by no means the last one seen on the ranch further into the investigation, Tom and Ellen were out on the ranch when they noticed a cloud of dust coming from the chorale we're Tom kept couple horses even from a distance. They said they saw the cows weren't alone. But all they could make out was a reddish Brown blur. As they got closer a creature that defied explanation came into view. It was huge and heavily muscled with a red bushy tail like a FOX's it looked in move like hyena, but it had stubby little legs like a bore and the head of a dog every bowl vio- Bonko. The freaking gold. Honda scare you steam, David funk dogs. You could look we put God. Nice mine. I think you're a great dog. Okay. Bunko? Money is thing is we don't even have to sing today. Tuesdays. It's no singing Tuesdays. Tom was about forty yards away. Would he began to run towards the corral? But the moment Tom felony was sprint the creature. Noticed him jump through the metal bars and headed up a slope. And by the time, Tom got to the top the creature was gone. The only thing left behind was the smell of wet fervor and few scratches on his horses strangely. This was one of the few phenomena that seemed to repeat itself, and this is strange because one of the most frustrating things about skin Walker rent from a scientific research perspective is that events rarely repeated themselves which made measurement and comparison impossible. Another one of the scientists that got to be revealed as part of the knits team kind of John. Alexander. You sues? Also, he worked for the military and all this kind of shit. And he his thing. He always kept saying is when you're on skin rocker when you're on skin Walker ranch. You are not in charge. Yeah. Yet is in charge. They. Try to sit these things up, and they said, basically, they would see if anomymous and they're like, okay. So we gotta do we've got cameras over here. The only thing and then it would never happen ever again. And or it would happen just to the right of cameras are just to the left at the cameras, which is again, another how convenient moment. But what do you do if it is happening? What do you do if it is happening, and you're trying this fucking capture? It you go crazy. You wanna get that panoramic? View of it skin rocker ranch. That's just full of Iggy pop and Anthony Keita's. If your skin is just leather, Ian. Guardless to more people reported seeing the bushy tailed creature a ranch hand sought and another local side. And it wasn't just gigantic monsters that showed up on skin Walker ranch at one point dozens of tiny bright red almost tropical. Looking birds just showed up on this ranch in Utah? They stayed for a few days fluttered around the trees, then took off drew never to be seen again weird. Then there was the gigantic spider. Infestations I would much rather have the tropical bird back. Can I just say like if you have to choose one of these guys put your sandals on pinochle oughta fuel like you're in Florida for a second weekend? The spiders were there for a few days. And then they were gone and locals were seeing things as well. During this time things that sound a hell of a lot like the traditional skin Walker legend and Tober of nineteen ninety eight a couple were driving just a few miles outside of skin. Walker ranch at dusk. When they looked out their window and saw a human like figure sprinting across the field keeping pace with their car. And it was running straight towards the ranch. I got is said Kerry. Fear. What is it false appearance? False expectations. Appearing real yes is the best. But let's you say it was only non scientists who experienced the strangest phenomena when it comes to creatures take this encounter that happened right in front of comb Keller. He and a colleague were out on watch one night when they were faced with a silent brightly lit sphere about the size of a basketball. Glowing with bluish white light it hovered about fifteen feet off the ground right in front of him. But just as comb trained his camera on the object it disappeared. Like someone had purposely flipped a switch, of course, is like no not gonna get not gonna not gonna get it. Since is a really fun practical joke perhaps on the other side. So with their appetite whetted by this citing the pair kept searching the area. Another appetite is wetted. Me ten v telling me, my friend, my fellow scientists are you ready to be nude opportunity. Strip. Oh, interested of a colleague was using the night vision Benach years looking at the tree line about two hundred feet in front of him. When suddenly the colleague exclaimed, quote, Jesus when calm asked him what he was looking at the dude fearfully said that he was watching a huge black thing right in front of him moving north something so large that he wasn't sure if it was in the trees or behind them all he knew was that it was blocking out the stars. Holy sh- Nike that dude being revealed to be Eric Davis that so a lot of the activity is centered around Eric Davis. Specifically, you listen to anyone of his interviews. If you ever look them up on coast to coast or any other kind of shit. He had a history of of you Afo sightings in his own life. Also being a scientist, and they all said all of the people involved with needs. That would go to speak about the project later on said that the activities to show up when Eric. Was out observing things. So they're sitting watching this shit, and Eric was such a I mean, he such a nice, man. Yeah. And he was kind of I would say he was burdened with this having to see you all the time. I just feel like I wished that. It was now for them. Yeah. Because I don't think that people are as lambasted as they used to be. No, no, no. It'd be on some show or something. Yeah. Well, this story is it over just yet. As Eric was watching this thing he was attacked not physically, but psychically? Yeah. He started yelling. It's got me. It's yeah. Yeah. And it said that it was saying one thing directly news mind over and over again, we are watching you. We are watching you who are watching you. We are watching you technically you're talking to me. Then it was gone. You remember when this happened before in the Gulf breeze in it? Yeah. But we don't know if it's gonna that was the actor fake, but it was to watch him. Go. My that was the man who wore the underwear all the time. Yup. Yeah. Of course, now this is far from the only time that seemingly invisible forces had caused trouble on the ranch, Tom and Ellen said that one day eight seeing their cows being herded by completely unknown force. They said that they saw a cow approaching tasty salt lick I think I'll just have myself lick. Yeah. You might as well. Just go ahead and call me salt lick. Oh, what's suddenly the cow stopped and began backing away as if it saw or sent something threatening dead ahead. This wasn't the first time that Tom had encountered something like this. And he discovered that this particular phenomena could actually be tracked with a compass. So Tom pulled out his compass and found that it was pointing straight towards whatever the cow was seeing the cow then turned and ran towards the end of the pastor. But when he did this the remaining cattle in the heard suddenly split into with one group running east and the other going west as if something was moving through the middle and all the while the needle of the compass followed Tom and Allen sat there and watched the needle follow whatever it was until finally it began to point north again eleven minutes later trip, b what was really strange about. This force though, was that it was. Usually accompanied by a terrible, smell or farts. The move one time coma said he was out in the pasture. When he was overpowered by a musky stench. What does that smell? It looks over. Just Gerard Depardieu. Go anywhere comb spent enough time on the ranch by that time to know what various wild fauna smelt like you notice gong smelled. Like, you knew it a FOX mild by he the knows knows. The knows knows this pickup animals just start smelling lines. You can't use to the smells of you recognize smasher. Sure city boy. Yeah. But this smell wasn't common for many of those animals comb also felt that something was close. And that something was watching him. It is to me. Darod now turn awaat skiing. Leave. And yet even though comb saw nothing he said, this was one of the few times that he ever felt physically threatened while on the ranch and comb wasn't the only one who experienced this smell plus fear interest. Comes to smell. Then comes the fear. That's always. Oh, that's how it always is. This is one of those veered stories that I'm like, I know he's looking for shit. So they like them being tacked by smells one of the weakest defenses. I did. I think the smell plus fear thing is pretty good. I believe for me. That's a pretty it's a pretty strong. Thanks. Mel is a big sense. Yeah. Big sense. Well, Canadian investigator who'd come along. So that he had smelled it to build it to the fear as well. I tell you what there's a ward Canadian side, we have about it seems to be the person who smelt it. They seem to have. That's correct pretty much. Everyone smelled it as had habit showing up pretty much anywhere. Smell even showed up in the command center, you tell me how that got in their house ski smell in the command center, I got some Duke on my shoe. On. Well, the smell would show up it linger for a little while. And then it would go away. Honestly, the command center without that. Unique smell that must've had a fun. Little order to. Honestly you follow GIS? Are imagine a musky bunch just together. Sweating with fear. Wondering you the orbs? We're going to come. So you get spooky stories of an unknown fear wild animals appearing and cattle being torn to bits and one of these guys were on the job. They certainly were nut staying quiet. These guys started talking and pretty soon. Rumors about skin Walker ranch started to circulate around the internet. Eventually rumors started spreading that to nibs staffers had actually been found murdered on skin Walker ranch, and the Bigalow had covered it all and this is like baby internet. So you know, it's like green lettering on the black background when I was doing some of the following the money research knits, I set to Barca's there were several classic on black website. Oh, yeah. When I was checking it out like I clicked on the link and it came up green on black. And I just I felt comforted. You like my I was like well time to put on the glasses. Like, even though that that definitely happened. I still felt like the good times. Well, that's what I'm saying. You know, everyone says oh the internet is Google Google is just a search engine four. We had freedom. Duck duck. Go was supposedly have freedom. Ninety percent of the internet is encrypted. Oh. Well, supposedly the person who spread this rumor about the murders said they heard it straight from a nigga board member. But comb Kelleher assures us in hunt. There's no truth to this. And I couldn't find anything about murders on skinless ranch in particular oca- takes. I don't think anybody died. I think of somebody died it was from the flu. It'd be good. Be regardless. Weird shit kept happening on skin Walker ranch in April of nineteen Ninety-seven. Tom had called up comb to tell them that not only had another calf mysteriously disappeared. But another dog who gone missing as well. So comb hopped on a plane and headed on out. But when he arrived, he found that he'd missed one of the most bizarre incidents of the entire investigation by just a couple of hours, Tom and Ellen had been driving by chorale that held four of their prized bulls and Ellen had wistfully commented that she didn't know what she do if they lost a single one of them. Really? Yeah. Dude. That's a lot of fuckin- money. Okay. That's a lot of semen. So no my. Steer. That's a lot of steer. Come. Yeah. Oh, okay. Nobody Sears steers do not produce come. Yeah. Bulls bullet holes that's a strong marriage than no jealousy at the part by the part of the husband there. She is talking a lot about another man their cows. They're both. They're men. So they kept driving counting cows as you do every single day. Yeah. You gotta go out. You got to count the cows. And if there's not as many cows as there should be you gotta go out looking for the missing Cal. Where's the Cal? I don't know. Oh might be another hour might be another six and might be another nine, but you've gotta find the fucking cow. See this is why I just like my outlaw country music, but with the amenities of normal life your law country music on headphones in a delta comforts. This episode is also brought to you by frame bridge. If you've been listening to this show, you've heard me talk about frame bridge. They make it super easy and affordable the frame, your favorite things from art prints and posters to the travel photos sitting on your phone. Here's how it works. Just go to framework dot com. Upload your photo, or they'll send you packing safely mail in your physical pieces preview, your item online in any frame style to your favorite or get free recommendations from their talented designers. The expert team at frame bridge will custom frame your item and deliver your finished piece directly your door ready to hang instead of the hundreds you'd pay at a framing store. Their prices started thirty nine dollars, an all shipping is free. Plus our listeners will get fifteen percent off their first order framework dot com when they use our code left. I love frame bridge. They make it so easy for us to affordably frame, some of the more interesting things you guys have sent in grave etchings to photos of UFO's frame bridge has helped us frame each. And everyone no matter what you've got to frame. Ryan bridge is the way to go. Get started today frame your photos or s- in the perfect gift for weddings, birthdays, special events, go to framers dot com and use promo code left. You'll save an additional fifteen percent off your first order. Just go to frame bridge dot com. Promo code left frame, bridge dot com. Promo code laughed. So yeah, they were count Macau's. But when they turned around and came back, they found that the chorale were four gigantic bulls had just been forty five minutes ago, a crawl was empty Tom got out of the truck and started frantically searching the ground trying to see there were any tracks to explain the disappearance that search finally ended at a locked trailer sitting next to the crawl this trailer hadn't been opened in years. Tom looked inside the tiny shed and saw that all four bulls were packed tightly inside frozen in their tracks and barely conscious. David copperfield. Yeah. You could you would not be able to get four huge bulls inside a tiny little trailer. And then get them to just sit there. It's impossible. No, absolutely. Not David Copperfield. Remember when he made the statue of liberty disappeared. They the thing went you literally just change the camera angle changed it back here. It was horrible. So Tom yelled for Ellen and banged on the side of the trailer. The cow suddenly came alive destroyed the interior the trailer kicked open the door and ran back outside. They were shaking, but otherwise completely unharmed. So when Tom told this story to comb upon his arrival they went to doing inspection. The trailer was indeed destroyed as Tom said, it was and coal knew that had been fine. The last time they were there because the command center is only about twenty yards away. The strangest thing was when comb brought out his magnetic field detector, he found that the metal bars of the chorale had become magnetized. That's a common phenomenon would on skin Walker ranch where these orbs show up and then things we get magnetized legitimately. He's like you could hold up a quarter or whatever it was. I don't know what can get magnetized all the piece of metal. And it would just be. It would just stick to the handle on. And it was especially magnetized in the region. The trailer. Really cool. I actually had a dream last night about magneto. Oh, cool from X men dream. And this is true. He was in like, I don't know Florida or something like that. He was just on the beach picking up all the coins with his hand. Yeah. It's texbook literally the most boring thing in the world to hear about somebody else's dream. Yeah. Forks and stuff I dream last night that I was frantically searching for a actual paranormal experience and actual haunting and failed dream that Natalie, and I were in Rome, and we were attacked by a gang of talian thieves with knives. And I beat one of the death. Cool vogue are things. Go. Here's the problem. What the fuck does the magnetized corral mean what does that what is there to test here? What is there to observe? What does this get you other than an opportunity to say? That's weird. It's so weird weird. It's literally that's all. That's all. That's all. It is go. Whoa. Okay. Wow. Cool. You get nothing after the incident with the bulls. Nothing was just what they got on the ranch for months on end. I mean, you could always put little funny magnets on their like. Demagnetize after after they sit about forty eight hours later, the MAG magnetism was barely detectable. It winnow it faded. Oh, yeah. The only thing that happened within the next few months. Was that a pulse? Gas kept opening the doors to the dog, pens, and that may seem small but comb claimed in hunt that this happened nine dozen times. Oh my God. That's a pain in the ass. And he knows because I guarantee you they wrote down every single time it happened. Yeah. This is this point the one thing say their observations at this point. Imagine are tuned all the way up that because they are scanning for whatever it is the day can pile together because number one Bobby big lows cameraderie money Jesus pan. The mold is doing whatever they are starting to get a little bit of the, hey, where's the proof? Right. And so they are. Desperate trying to cobble together. What they can. But it's all the fucking wackadoo. I mean, what does the poltergeist activity proof? I mean, nothing was ever seen on surveillance nor there any tracks. There was nothing. And since there was nothing all they had was the experience. And the thing is that's all that matters market. Does it really telling you? We're talking about this on the phone, right? Yeah. You can get a picture. I mean, you get proof you can have video of it. But when it comes down to do I need proof to tell you, I'm so happy to dance with my future daughter at her wedding. Do I need Peru. Right. Right. Well, I'm just happy. You think your daughter's going to get married? That's wonderful. No, that's but you do need some proof. No. You can't just you know, you gotta have cameras on. Yeah. You do need some proof, and is problem of experience versus evidence was probably most pronounced on the night of August twenty fifth when to investigators reported seeing one of the strangest incidents ever described by paranormal investigators that think there was a paranormal investigator kissing a girl. Pitcher. I will know so one of these guys I don't know of Jim or Mike. It's the guy on the infrared camera is Eric Davis. Okay. Oh, well that night two men known as Jim and Mike where about six hours into their watch sitting on a bluff overlooking a field on skin Walker ranch. And this was a night that they'd given. They're all one of them had started the watch with a meditation session. Eric was the one who did that that was air. Yes. Yeah. Because Tom remember that story from the last episode when the stranger came out and the predator beasts came and yelled at them. How could I forget, of course, these guys hoped that meditating might draw the phenomenon out of hiding, but by two thirty AM nothing was happening. So they sided to give up for the night. But as they were breaking down there quip -ment Jim noticed a faint track of dirty yellow light about one hundred fifty feet below. He pointed out to the other guy as they. Watched the light began to grow. So Jim, started unpacking. The camera again to see what he could capture while Mike crab, the night vision binoculars to get a better, look and still the light kept growing. Finally, Mike whispered one thing it's a tongue yet. Jim who didn't have the advantage of night vision? Only saw the light. But he did see the light was getting bigger and bigger. Yes. So he's watches it'd be like, okay. Whatever you only other guys third a fucking bug out. He's like. What can give man? Oh, it's going growing about two feet in height. But they're suffered happening man having with it. Yeah. Finally when the light and crawl knew about two feet in height. Mike saw something through the Benach killers. He said that he clearly watched as a black six foot tall creature with no face crawled out of the tunnel on its hands and knees stood up and walked away. It is literally the scene from ace Ventura nature. Pause with the big foot. Out. And he's just because apparently he's freaking Davis because he's going like new. The polls dilated boy. And coming through because the guy with the with the bananas like let me see two. Yeah. CDN for a camera. And he's like, no. Do we he's locked into see it? And it's fucking. Popped out of the whole. Just walked away and disappeared simultaneously. Yeah. Very cool. And then the light just blinked out of existence on the two of them. Immediately ran down to where the light had been. But all they found was the smell the musky scent. Smack. Another great practical paranormal joke. Yeah. And they tried taking readings they took out a machine, no shit. They used a machine called Nardolillo part. Check for radiation. That's an order does. Definitely going on because I accidentally I caught myself a little snip on my balls from trying to clean up some of my ball hair. I slipped and I cut a little bit. I'm I am dealing with the Nardo. More on that. You can listen to this week side stories Henry goes in depth, which I thought was really fun but script on that show. No scripted all the Nardolillo found nothing. And again, the pictures that Jim except he's putting it out himself. Keeps rose to. Again, the pictures that GM took showed only light that could have been anything. The frustration with surveillance continued after this, for example, take the story of the security cameras. This is my favorite story. I love this one. Because this story has been verified by several members of the team that came forward and said that they like this is this is legit. And it is weird. Yeah. Knits it set up a series of six surveillance cameras in the area. We're Tom acclaimed see the most mutilations orbs and the famous orange structures in the sky. The idea was that the cameras were sure to catch something of note. But they've been up for a year, and it caught nothing. Okay. Would they decide to do? Right. Was because of this problem they've been having right, which is this concept of which I that's part of me that makes me by a little bit is that they say they got so sick of happening just outside of frame. They're like you won't work in a fucking do. We're gonna take these cameras. We're. Point them at the other cameras literally in the most added cameras. So it's they'll see what spine these cameras. They'll see what's the sides of these cameras. This is like this was in the area, the homestead area were all of the worship was happening. Right. Have cameras watching the cameras I like it and the pattern of seeing nothing changed in July of nineteen ninety eight. But not quite in the way, they expected see Tom noticed that three of the cameras had stopped recording. So he walked out to the cameras to take a look see when he got there. He found that the wiring had been completely and meticulously ripped out. They see the way they look look that they were cut. They were also covered in duct tape, right? And the duct tape disappeared. And so they were like, okay. Somebody van will is this. But we got the camera. Watch your knees Faulk in cameras, and so it was like the Narda Lert was flicking blaring, very all hopped in the plane. The all just got done eating soup, or whatever you do. Down put down the left because we've go. Soup last night that good. Yeah. Very good. I was actually vegetable soup. I just I helped the show. But I actually mixed it with split pea. Good to be really tasting Lanny way, Dom called up the team in Vegas. They all hopped on the jet. And they came to survey the surveillance they found that all three cameras had lost power simultaneously at eight thirty PM the night before. But nothing was caught on the cameras in the lead up. That's realized we got them cameras pointed to camera. Yeah. We're definitely going to get it. And so the legitimately thought that they were going to just see like big foot with the ladder an open air with the everything dog. Oh, maybe we could show them a little. A little. No, no buckle. Dismantled its camera system any put up where screwdriver. Wave to the camera gave him the finger, honestly sasquatch in bunko. I would watch that if it was a series. Yeah. I would watch series over a movie and watch the movie. So would they catch Marcus? Nothing. Good. God almighty, come on the other cameras were about two hundred feet away. And they watched the footage eight thirty came and went nothing show showed up all they saw was at the red lights. The cameras were on prior to eight thirty pm eight thirty all three just blinked off at the exact same time. Were they on a timer? This is not a timer issue. This is not a power failed. Because remember the wiring been ripped from all three. That's what turn them on. A why are we have been ripped out? And it was ripped it was severed. Right. It's this thing where they don't know. So they caught none of that. It look like nothing had changed on the cameras on video. But in person, the cameras were had been physically fuck with that was the one where John Alexander that is the example, he keeps saying he's like, that's the only thing I truly saw that was like. What what is this? And it's technically the only proof that we have a something anomalous has happened. You know, the non evidence is also evidence though, because you don't see you don't see Gorman going up there. Risking his life cutting off the the power now. Non evidence is also evidence that they're nothing happened. Also, not you didn't see anybody going up there and sniffing the wire that is true. So that's good man is true. Well, after that things started a wind down the incident with the bushy tailed creature did happen after that. And there were a couple of minor incidents, but nothing of note and people had even started living on the Gorman homestead in nineteen ninety nine and they saw nothing. And by the time comb Kelleher left knits in two thousand and four. Nothing had really happened on skin Walker ranch for years, and it such that's the tale is told in hunt for the skin Walker ends, but that's not the end of skin Walker ranch. And this is when things get pretty goddamn complicated. Our best try to parse everything that's happened. Since Kelleher left, okay. Less sponsor today is calm stress is a worldwide epidemic. We're working longer hours. 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One of their focus meditations actually helps out a lot right now last podcast on the left listeners. Get twenty five percent off com premium subscription at cone dot com slash left that C L M dot com slash left. Get unlimited access to all of coms content today at com dot com slash left. Get comb stop stressing. Neds eventually folded, but it didn't really go away rather it evolved into blast. Into bat. Bigelow aerospace advanced space studies. Oh, this was it seemed to be Bigalow had gotten connections to various members of the DIA. There was a man of the DIA that hurts tale about skin Walker ranch. He wanted to come visit. So at some point some guy from the DIA came and visited skin Walker ranch. And they should they told them all the stories. He laughed knits closed bass. I'm probably might be completely butchering the timeline. But I'm not sure right. I know that there are some facts that are connected here. Bass was one of the first coordination's between Bigelow in the US government where they went and took some DIA money, and then continued their studies than they actually did. It's can walk ranch because they also had a spot and dole say or dull j I don't fuck. Yeah. But they had another place. They were also dumping some money into. Yeah. In multiple places in Biggles, new focus seems to suggest that he learned something from those eight years at skin Walker ranch. I would hope so public statement say that Bass's new methodology was based on the fact that you phenomenon was capable of manipulating and distorting human perception therefore making eye witness testimony, quote, increasingly untrustworthy, oh, that's not to say that I witness testimonies useless. They're just saying that as a tool for scientific study what we're seeing may not be what's actually there because you can't get booted from eight years on skin Walker ranch. You're not getting it anywhere while they're just a commercial for someone who had I think it's MS or Parkinson's, and they say that you start hallucinating with it. And then you take drugs to stop loosening or don't. Right. Yeah. Why not instead bass aimed to approach the human body as a readout system for dissecting interactions with UFO phenomenon because if cameras can't capture it, and if the UFO experience truly is a personal one the may be the answer is in the figurative eye of the beholder. Now this statement was leaked to George Knapp. Her wrote about this for the I team in Las Vegas writes, George Knapp, who's always had a personal relationship with Bob Bigelow, which is how we got the story in the first place, which is why he was allowed access to skin Walker ranch because Bigalow knew him and trusted him. So key gave him the statement from bath saying essentially, a part of it is to measure the human bodies reaction to anomalous phenomena because they also a part of it is straight up saying we don't trust the moods of the anomalous phenomena as well. Which is just a lot of paranoia one. Because it's don't try to. Eyeballs. Also, don't trust the UFO's dancing for the balls that we don't really know how they meant to go about researching that will yet it's tough not to trust anyone the other difference when it came to bass that unlike neds as we said bass was not a solely private enterprise. Remember, Bob, Bigelow Vegas, man, and all UFO enthusiasts might remember certain Senator from Nevada openly discussing UFO's a couple of years ago that man was Senate majority leader Harry Reid to make a long story short. Harry Reid was friends with George Knapp. Ooh. Harry reid. Read hump for the skin Walker. He met Bigalow. Big donated ten thousand dollars to reach reelection campaign and read brought Bigalow into the governmental Foale to work on eight tip. Now is interesting all this kind of interesting, and you wanna say, oh, he bought this image truth. This is what lobbyists do right? This is how move is how it works. But also if we're gonna have a lobbyist let it be for you if over he's. But, you know, atempts stands for the advanced aviation threat identification program, and it was a very real government effort that was outlined in an extensive article in the New York Times less than two years ago. I mean, this very fucking complex this read every fucking complicated. Because technically they say that eight tip was the fake name that Louis L Izawa was working under who released who basically leaked all this to Tom the long of to the stars academy. Technically, the real the real name of it. It's supposed to be all sap, which is the advance aerospace weapon system, applications programme. Now, they say is the reason why the the names are important was because in within the names with aerospace threat identification program, which is what aid to the Vance aerospace threat identification program, which is what eight tip stands for. It is this kind of ache concept that anything that's in the sky. That's not ours could be possibly a perceived threat. And we need to research what it is. But that's. Way more witty and way, more fucking Wigley in terms of trying to trying to validate while you're spending money, the Awsat this talking about it as we are going to take what we learned from studying these subjects and we can apply them to weapon systems. We can toss all that information over to ARIN in which in gets really fucking complicated because who's lying who is it. True. That Awsat went ahead, and essentially they were supposed to be kind of researching fallout science but supposed to be using it for weapons. But instead are they kind of doing you Afo studies on the side, which is what eight tip possibly what's eight tip might have been a more informal group within that group of just dudes looking at you Afo footage together at desks. We're not really sure, but it all this connected back to Tom too long with the to the stars academy who work with another guy herald off who was also maybe a member of knits who happened to be connected to project Stargate, which the program in order to create telekinesis who also happened. To be an OT eight and a church or Scientology, which is why they say Bob Bigelow is now a she'll for Scientology because the herald poodle said I learned how to get remote viewing OT eight. They're they're in. There is well regardless what? Aneurysm would ever interesting though, the government program stuff, they're very interesting, and whatever the truth is it was stated in the New York Times article that the biggest contributor to this program outside of the US government was Bigelow aerospace advanced space studies bass house in the New York Times, and Harry Reid himself said in an interview that skin Walker ranch was a part of this research effort, or at the very least skin Walker ranch. And it studies inspired this research effort skin, walk around was definitely tied into this. Okay. Harry Reid coming in hot. No. Yeah. I mean, he was Senate majority leader type deal. He did some bad stuff. He did some really shitty thing. Fifty one the supermajority. What? But just regardless high-ranking government official power and a lot of budget power. This is what what did they ended up delegating? To to financial twenty two twenty two million twenty two million. Yeah, it's six hundred billion dollar covert ops budget. It's really not that much. No. I know. But it's something anyway. Yeah. And they contributed black money to it. But a part of showing that the US government in some ways. So they are then trying disincentive saying, well, they either went rogue, and we're supposed to be doing research and UFO they were supposed to be doing more legit, quote, unquote, science and went rogue, and we're investigating UFO's, and we didn't want that they try to they try to distance themselves from which I think is really interesting because I think it shows they don't want really people do know that unsown level of the government. They are having one finger still uneven. I am sure that they do your of it. Well, again, nothing happened and the program died a slow death. Even though the man was at Lewis Allison does that his name. Yes. Yeah. Even Louis ELLs onto the guy in charge. He was extremely concerned that we were choosing to ignore what he thought were possible and credible threats to national security. He's also released we need to know what this shit is. And it is idiotic that we are choosing to not study it. But I still wonder if they are I think that they probably are they the problem is it just depends on mean who knows who really knows. Because then Il Tahoe was he really working for eight tip was atypically thing was eighteen the thing a bunch of nerds at the Pentagon, call themselves. Like is that true is all of this? Unofficial or is it so so so official that they have to sink it that they have to make sure that nobody thinks about it fucking tell me, you don't get you. Henry. No, absolutely. They they've probably with the military budget. I'm sure of it. Yeah. And it seems like Bigalow gave up on all this as well. A few years ago. He sold skim locker ranch to a mysterious company called adamant team real estate LLC had of anti of. So like, it's just so on the nose. Creepy. But thankfully, we do know that this buyer bought it for the explicit purpose of further paranormal research. Okay. We don't know for sure who this guy is. But the owner of the adamant you group who owns adamant him real estate is a Spaniard named mono Rueta will according to think it is. Well, he I mean, it's on the adamant him group side, that's like Manalo Reta. Like, this is he's the guy, and according to that website bio, he has a distinct interest in Kuzma legiti quantum mechanics energies and ancient civilization honestly distancing themselves from this project at the interesting because they don't want because he appeared in hunt for the skin Walker with his face blocked out. Yeah. Well, whoever it is. That actually owns it appeared and hunt for the skin Walker this Facebook dot and whoever and also had his voice disguise, and he did not sound like a Spaniard. Well, they had a disguise. Yeah. But it was one of those remarkable. Maybe it was a smoker, really careful. Well, this is what this guy actually said he has quote vast empire of business interested I cared about allow to be compromised, but disclosure of my involvement in this effort, but. That is the power of Spaniard obvious. That voice was was being covered up there. But he like now that Spaniards on the scene. I think that that you you so hot at six. Yes. He's out there. He's got his pupil. He's eating his drinking orange wind like with the scar. Like all gum and they'd go common goal. It's so cool. One thing we do know is that a trademark was filed for the words skin Walker ranch in a deal that was brokered by a lawyer named Berbick power. That is not a lawyer. That is not a real lawyer. No, I looked it up and brick power is a lawyer in Nevada. What does Rick me Greek brick Jeep power who he is? He's a he's a lawyer at Durham Jones and Penteker, of course. Okay. Brick G power. I mean, and he specializes in patents. He specializes in intellectual property rights. This guy exists, but as far as the identity of the buyer. We only have guesses some think it might even be British popstar Robbie Williams. Really? I haven't heard a robbing a longtime because Robbie Williams inexplicably and without warning shows up on skin Walker ranch itself in the documentary hunt for the skin Walker to talk about the paranormal makes no fucking sense. Literally old documentary goes, and like, whatever you wanna think about Jeremy corboy, he's a character sitting there. They're all smoking cigars. And it's like, it's it's George Knapp who's talking. I still like beer, you see German Corval is smoking a cigar. And then the camera just pans and just nonchalantly Robby, Robin Williams, just their doer, whatever. Yeah. Go Saul goes taught me to dance. And the people who now work on the ranch say that they do have evidence. All right. They're just not shown it to us or they say that they got it. But they've been sworn secrecy the people the evidence told the stories they can't tell because they've been. I think you swear. Because if it's a pinky swear, they can't break that will truth is, I doubt we'll ever really know. What's happening on skin Walker ranch in our lifetime? I mean, most likely we will remain as the pigeon standing on the newspaper for another few hundred or even another few thousand years before we really understand what's actually going on. But that doesn't mean we should stop trying and willing maybe one day we'll find money in our national budget once again for studies in the paranormal, and maybe we'll get a hint of what's going on at skin Walker ranch. You you say. I love it. I wish this story ended on more. Like, I wish we had a picture of a UFO. It's really sad there that is. It's definitely like. This whole thing where the spend all this money, and you're just hoping comes from. But then again, why are we looking for proof so hard? Why are we doing this? When we can really just you can just think it. Could you could just make it up Robbie Williams hit song? Maybe you guys will know it speaking of paranormal entities. Angels eight how does it go, Ben? It's joe. No. Good. I didn't ever knew. I know knows does. Joe disappointing. Yeah. But I have a fun time reading about it. I'd agree tem reading about it and talking about it like it's just it's so much fun getting a paranormal stuff, and it's so much fun to talk about this stuff. Again, so much fun to read about note time line, you never know what's going to happen here. Maybe they're sitting on a whole bunch of evidence. They might in their worst some pictures shown in the hunt for the skin Walker documentary that we're very compelling. Just just like. Wow. That is. That's fucking weird. That's cool. But you know, but it doesn't it doesn't prove any sums there. Some there. Something's there. Walker rich that concludes our series on skin Walker, Raj. That was very aluminum and exciting. Yes. Indeed. I very good work, Marcus. Oh, very good work. How to research into some thick asks yet? Yes, nice. I'm happy. I it just seems like everyone is happier than talking about Joseph mangle. Here. Mangle is out of my brain. Yeah. He's never not though. Now, it's like he's a permanent little spot somewhere in the back. No. I think about him whenever I see a traffic cop like going left going, right. Don't tell me where to go traffic. That's what I say. So the books with hunt for the skin Walker for this game. I read it the hump of the skin Walker is it by Dr Cohn Keller and George Knapp. It's a really fun book. It meanders at times there's a whole chapter on Bigfoot that doesn't really need to be there. But it's overall it's fucking great book and his section at the end on like theories possible theories is really fascinating. Really cool. He talks about some possible parallel universe stuff, and lays it all out scientifically and away that you can understand it. And it's it's really fun goal. I I would definitely definitely recommend reading and speaking of payroll. Universes and lane that theory up very well. Happy birthday to you. Now, they actually do. Paid to do. No. I'm just saying they do better to the first one. You did. I did. I like the first one much better. I really know. We laughed our ass. No. It is very fun. I just thought there. The kills better in the first one will. Yes. The kills better. But I felt like this was the better movie. I didn't even know you watched it. Yeah. Conversation because I'm trying to stick to the episode and all the research that we did all the work that we did. No, I know search we did all the war all the work that was under two. Tube. I was she Walker diamond for you or Dave to fuck. It had McGee. It's got fake science. It's think give it what it definitely tied into the episode. Very well. Like rope around a steak. No, right. When we got show's coming, don't we? Yeah. We got a lot of shows coming. Yeah. We do. Yeah. Who we absolutely have to travel again this year, I'm excited to travel this year. I'm really excited I've missed being out on the road. I'm excited to get back out there, and we're about to announce a gigantic gigantic slew of dates here, very soon. But until then we definitely have a few of these booked we are coming to Nashville on the nineteenth March that when sold out. Thank you, very much everyone for for buying tickets to that we can't wait to see you. We're also going to be in Cincinnati on March. Twentieth. Cleveland March twenty second and Pittsburgh on March twenty third in those shows are definite like, we got the take accounts. We're definitely going to sell out. So you get your tickets now if you wanna come see us life, and should we mentioned the Pittsburgh website a little blip? Yeah. What's happening? The Pittsburgh website. It's saying that the show is sold out. But I don't know if we have no clue we're having discrepancies with our people with the the venue. We're trying to get that. We're like it's not sold out in Pittsburgh quite yet. So the tickets are still there. So don't plan anything for that week. I couldn't go. No. I think it's gonna be fine. Well, as soon as we figure out what's going on with Pittsburgh will announce something on a on our Twitter at L P on the left and probably on her Instagram to also at LPN lift so watch those if you wanna come see us in Pittsburgh. And of course, you can still go to last podcast live dot com. And also just from last year live in Chicago. It is such a great special. I think you'll love it. So get out there. It's only six dollars and sixty six and prepare you for this is a whole different show. Yeah. This completely new light a candle Luke Perry. He had a stroke this morning Perry did from nine to one. Oh, yep. Yep. Yes. Oh, oh. Yep. Sorry, everyone. Fred. It's not good from Riverdale. He's my one of my favorite characters. Hope. He's okay. You know, there was just a felon that was given leniency on his death row sentence because he suffered so many strokes. They said he had too many stroke, Stephen be sent to death too many strokes to be killed. That is really so it's a blessing for some. Yeah. Patriots wanted that give us money. Yes. Please give it to our patriot. Thank you so much. We have some great content out there. More Henry, and I do a little interview series. And we're going to be interviewing some big guests coming up really excited about that. And thanks for supporting all the shows. 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