#023 Kurt Vonnegut 2000
Welcome back to the Tate's archive podcast where we release interviews. That have never been heard before in this episode. We have American author. Kurt Vonnegut at the time of his sooner view back in the year two thousand Vonnegut was seventy seven years old and was in Indianapolis promoting an upcoming ACLU fundraising event in this wide ranging interview font talks about freedom of speech civil rights. God and Religion. His love for Indianapolis and his time spent as a prisoner of war. Hi I'm Kurt Vonnegut. I'm looking for Thornton Melon. As always we have music critic Mark Allen at the helm conducting the interview. If you'd like to support the show please like follow and subscribe to us on facebook. Youtube twitter instagram there. We post other content and information not available on the podcast. If you'd like to read the transcripts for any of our episodes please head over to our website. At the TAPES ARCHIVE DOT COM. Will jump into the interview after a quick word from our sponsors. The tapes archive is proud to be sponsored by the true crime documentary. Deadman's line you're wrapped around trying to get a shot at me. I go down there. Nineteen seventy seven. Tony Koets is kidnapped. The mortgage broker and held him captive for three days of the first time ever the media was able to cover the event live to some. Tony was a hero to others. He was a crazed son dead. Man's line the true story of Tony Kuritzkes. This award. Winning film is available exclusively on Amazon Prime. One last thing before we get to the interview. The tapes archived PODCASTS. Proud member of Cyrus media a global community connecting passionate fans with podcast and experiences about artists and topics involved. Thanks for tuning in. And now it's time to open the vault suicide part which you wrote about again timber. Yeah it seems incredibly prescient. Good Yeah No. I think it would have been worthwhile. Business Jokes quick. You know 'cause people would have threat news if you don't shut up I'm GonNa onto the Green Group. What did you think of this? This is my business you to sit around all day thinking of neat stuff now. Most people don't do you ever think that something even close to that with really country. Well I actually. I been everything I do now. They put me in mind. That was the German surviving. The Second World War quote a wonderful business that would have been in Germany at the end of the war. Germans himself. The gun makes us now. When you look at Jack Larkin what it does is it. The logical We sent him a copy of the Book of God. Bless you doctor. Kevorkian got apprently. Leatherback 'cause I'm on his side good. I understand too bad idea legally why. Why do you hold a permission? Wealth is during thirties courses. thing was going on political policy in Germany. To get rid of the weekend saying long whatever and so that temptation is always be there for someone who launched gets too much power on send. Laser actually wants to clean this society. According to her is life. Yeah No I. When you wrote about June writing vowed people taking their lots of their own free will saying fast enough signed to go no. I think it's probably all right well again. That has everything but originality. Is this what the Greek said was fair about life? Visited Line must be interesting to see to see some of the things that you're not wanting to go come true or at least come closer. To the sheep amazing things lynching stop being black. People allowed the votes. Black people allowed to ride anywhere in a bus gone. Stephen Problems in civil rights bent and of course Donald Jefferson is the most popular political ancestors. Suppose Burden Declaration of Independence. All do not see women are blacks as remotely to white male. And it's quite something now. Founder the country with those particular attitude with those guys and booked her. Who's a hero? Minute speculating slaves. As commodities might have some other tape market and Gerda great thank of roughly contemporaries of of Jefferson's greatest minds of the time or operating on natural law is flip nature intention to promptly were and It seemed to them. The black people were intended by nature to be certain to of part people with better minds and nowhere could perfectly natural act with nature into and I saw you know women are smaller can easily beat up and You that that that major once that increase what about progress in other areas to feel technological progress is not necessarily ordinarily if you're going to build factories and this is quite new to in good. Is You know there will be an environmental impact. Study is due to the to the ACURA for the atmosphere and all that and there is no such a made land when something radical Of the most important person than any house which is obscene. Most influential person with the deal for they say can't pry progress and all that but I've got a master's degree in anthropology has my field after one and university Chicago gene. So would a person's culture is very prominent fires personality pertinent naturally grows culture become department? Persian about is easily could fool. Around with his. Or her kidneys pancreas but there are these. Radical surgeries have been performed on a psyches. My new electronic devices acting regret. The loss of the few experiences is so much about human beings and what they can do is now being discounted and certain for people who've passed it was a great adventure of people with any sort of mind becoming a finding of cigarettes. Here right is is what's inside are skull and now Bill Gates and saying hey you don't have to become anymore. Gear concluded GONNA become next year when you see with the completely and and so to be proud of all time as human beings so that destructive of morale and at the same time I only Sponsored me not that I have for legislatures. Tv or any kind of TV for a minute absolutes. Which leaves you powerless with computer. A mania side. The son-in-law news appeared in his. You know the bully waking up what you can. Do you can retreat chromosomes. But when you know we were talking about if you don't like always leave and if we don't like all this technological stuff you can put together some kind of life apart from this. Of course the grotesque example. Somebody did that long before they were. Technologies are guard was Henry. They would arrivals when he was protecting his soul and his personality and the chartered harder can do. You're GONNA come here. molds Timber Talk About Censorship mylan. Talk with a seal. You have been a lifelong supporter of the support of the ACLU BEFORE ADM added. Chapter surprised that the ad after not now no go school some anniversary celebration of the ACLU in Louisville They were having some trouble. Cops get what it was you know acting like Nazis and they wanted a chapter the sale you in order to a rational five goings and founded their chapter down there long before there was one view at the garage. And and but that's even more of a border state but at the anniversary meeting who spoke for Shit as usual. They had the founder stand. A six sweet old guys like John. There they are again. It's Emmy big thank got down. The bill of rights being pushed Ernst easily people willing to give those away at some of the rights. Me From other people is right. We'll take a Melissa now. I'm GonNa talk about that. Someone have talked about it before. But they're Thomas coinage have higher loss. There's got law. Don't mess with that. His nature's law nuts with Thomas. Jefferson solid white women and black. Look people of color should be subservient to quite intellectual. And then there's my enslow am I feel? You is always going to court. You know they were the cards. Where the highest card they've got is the Queen Man's law they're holy people play Nat- Natural Law Soclean Gig Ace name so again in the people who who won't take away other people's right to speak their minds or whatever are playing when you come out the Civil Liberties Union. Play terrifically in the ASS. Now what did they really clinical campaign national campaign? Forget Indiana them talk about somebody being a card carrying member of the civilian choosy copy as a very good thing Secorski. Most recent case here has been hosting the Ten Commandments. They want to close the schools in if he must he can take a lawyer as though they have the millwright which strong as respectable embody regulations as traffic laws. You can't part wildfire plug and you can't keep people from assembling in complaining about this or that all right we've got me here because I don't mean no the first commandment I don't know where the other day you shall have. No other gods before the bill of Rights James Madison Glee. Not Allowed to be school golden disruptive to the Society Shirley of murder and Kali others but anything have specifically do was the Jewish Christian religion cannot be hosted in the school the command shell that killed please. Let's put it nothing school. So the principles of the camel hair using the principles are great. But the the idea of posting this unfolding. Somebody's religious school the first commandment and of course it was very wise is whether Moses actually spoke to daughter not whether got spoke to him he was trying to maintain peace cancer. Society was on the run and there were fights for another night inches of were wet. It drains moving west in this country and he says the basic rules. Keep your hands off other people's lives don't sat your parents had already are fine. Let's go the Ten Commandments. And throw out any which insists that Louis be using Jesus talked public. Education WanNA appreciation for free education. Might Unite the by notebook filler when you went to screaming discredit a different than than the schools of the kids. Go through receivers when you went to school no matter what screen a matter. How much money are people had given that you've been parents? Sent the kids ready to learn and flirty respects with researchers and prepared. Thief lives and listen taken. I write about the date with over fifty percent of marriages. Now go bust so typically. There aren't such families and this is because the sex atmosphere nature economy and the nature of Army Tamed and so forth but yes I remember we had. I won't name was one doctor who is a short or family doctor and everybody stop speaking to him again. That's a violation of the Ted Commandments. Which you great rules for maintaining peace in any kind of some got said that. Take place no hell. I don't mind your seniors news I'm Honorary President American Humanist Association having succeeded is again off in that capacity and and Yes there's a wonderful Dacian by nature my hereditary religious anyway by parents grandparents on both sides of the family were local priests Nature said only a person of faith can afford the luxury of skepticism and shirts health Nervously important is going on Jerry Falwell word for what? It is actually My ancestors who came over here first earliest ones came before the civil war. One ancestor on my mother's side. Who Lost a leg in quarterback they were Catholic and but they were also educated Science and when Darwin came along the very convincing interesting to them and so Literal accepted to the Bible. Creationism elect would no longer possible for the truth. L. Interest was was going on and I also much family's been in Indianapolis for a long time as frequently as merchants architectural whatever They have behaved the great honesty. Thank all we're on the SAMEDAY leads and did not leave the fleet crazy sex class. What the humanist. But he will without serving any expectation new rewards punishments in afterlife and they serve as my ancestors. Indianapolis is dumb so the only abstract with which you have any familiarity with the community. And that's been enough so I figured there was worth. I am a good. It was before the First World War. He would call you so a free thinker but that was so specifically. Djerma been call myself nakedness. Yeah now you could you. Could you know you try to Trim Exactly and everything is a will. I really don't want nothing but anyway it turns out to. Some people are so scared. Live to be. They'll take somebody else's worth for what's going on. You know accept Jesus or whatever. I'm all for that interesting. Know using bad once said I'm really very interested in. Socialism is in the economic justice some sort of economic their play and I work for general. Electric is Louie and socialism. And Dr Reagan critic was here. Against Socialism cursor company was against socialism becomes as Labor was a commodity. And it's the Working People decided. They were dialing more than they were getting you. This is really very expensive. But there's a snow. Karl Marx was invited to address. Marcus inside interfere view to do it because he wasn't a Marxist what makes religion stick demanding American cross and of course we use any civil libertarian to their religion. Zootopia the massive in track what Marx. Who say you know? He's a friend to the poor and the powerless was a comfort to them. And you realized glad that set. The comprehensive existed himself was grateful to opiates probably to opium itself intriguing page twenty s. Tuesday whatever now and It was Lenin Stalin and people like that casually suppose who used this as an excuse to silence creatures. Just you know that regardless power every Sunday. They'RE GONNA get stand up there and say almost but he was. He was waiting well religion in eleven in my particular heroes. All tear this speculator in slaves of the commodity a lot of employees and he is author of the Catholic Church the higher your particular Jesuit but he realized how important comforting is religion nonetheless was his employees so he never let him know what he felt about their faith and limited each conversation to people on these social and intellectual level and. I would do the same but I I was what my particular war buddy were. Roman Catholic with Brin. I'm bill hare who became a district attorney after the war. Criminal Defense Attorney but anyway he lost his place during the war. Such a mess He gave up on Roman Catholicism and I loved him and I hated to see him do that. I realized this was very important. I'm honorable you believe when I first came here. Nine hundred eighty eight her tributaries you about the Annapolis Want three hundred sixty four days. The city sleeves phone day as race may have said that that would be regionally you in certain level spoken very well. Guess what I was. GonNa say I just did last nine. Seems to be the the Terelia. His defection should not be great for with that London public school system and public libraries system. During the thirties. You went to the library is a library with some glad you were there you around little kids. Maybe like this what he's crazy about snakes for awhile herpetology librarian good idea and then impression. I think people thought that you should care of lifelessly. Obviously that's unsure courses that now but I would I would. I'd said I was graduation speaker. Letter three or four years ago. I guess it was all here people so smart. You can't believe people so dumb you can't believe in Nice. He can't believe in people so mean you can't leave them books books books. Atlanta music. Or could you want there was during? The thirties is only happy frequently as other teenagers teenagers and also the. Great Depression is going on. So things at home were rally upset and There was jazz analyst. Black could you go? Oh yes please call. The southern Barbecue is on in St Louis or white people. Go Listen Kills Black Jazz. Just say just say they would have been playing balloons and it would have been used for fifty cents tax order trumpet also clip saying it was beautiful and that jeff enormous help to be right now. I can comfort myself with music CD right now. I've said this cruiser isn't Gosh years ago. Many years ago you wrote a Canarian and ask the star reading you. When I was a kid I went looking for that and I was really still is out front and the only explanation I got was that you wrote things that you've no longer elise and you ask the legislature and you know I just don't want to crap upper house with you asked me who canaries and will again. They'd be religious rights that Milan read not that they've read it. That much determined did not all respect. God and I is the biggest trouble. Regatta people really race out our other story I forget which one it lost where time travel guys get time travel to work in everything so they decided to check out the Bible Story to find true that Jesus personally go back and you know it's all true and are these three crosses and this is the mental and headed said today wiler there they decide to measuring and he's five foot. Six boy does that because he's got to be five ten it's got to be. He's a little guy and you should be a big ass. This was insulted. Just think then I could have said his eyes were blue too. I didn't go that They would blow their stock. And of course must have been about the average size of a mailbox clan. Richard Lionheart was about that size until this shit in the middle of the carpet. So that story was in Marion. Hell I don't remember. It may not have been collection on the West did happen with with Canary. Nothing in the commercial venture and the and the sales drop below a certain level. Now because it's not even mentioned future folks need lists where what you've written that no. There's no such fun as I forgot. I make that list. I guess I left it off. I Know City wrote the story and the religious right increase in Battle Creek Michigan reform against physician where people are fire as is taking unpopular physician. Something you believe in that something must do you feel like during the look. They're minions admitted. Americans just like make only situation at all. In the end it's people would very specific agendas who go after a book. Remove you know. My situation is not remotely lumped question. And maybe you would wish to answer. What would it be an up close? Look like when you were a kid I I like to do when I'm out. Look around Antique stores and I and I found this antique store with Lot's postcards. And I'm looking at the Indianapolis Indianapolis stuff. I mean. One of the Cleveland Hotel from looking at this. This is beautiful and took down gorgeous courthouse. At why did they waste Utopia architecturally? My Father Bat father designed to hell of a lot and You know did a reunion of class of nineteen forty. Last night. I was asking people hard to leave town. There's something the beautiful homes to live in and all that and come up with. Is I think that the Great Depression so demoralized at parents so reduce their own self respect punch Plenty of rainfall plenty of topsoil clock Monroe. She's novelist the rich country and quoted sitting. Look like it was bored and I think that our parents were so upset. Confused Lost Not knowing what the hell do failed capitalism that I don't know we. We could town because her parents were so unhappy here in nineteen twenty nine to nineteen forty one. We got out of time but people that are Union Tulsa. For God's sake Santa Barbara me from Northampton Massachusetts really like this. Because I learn more about you I guess I was trying to think of when I when I was a kid. I wrote all your books of interest in fantasy in the mind thinks you create now interested in Nevada the man who Koreans through there just to best era. If you WanNa react just where were you? Were talking about right. If you said I feel and think as much as you do care about many things you care about all the most people don't care about the you are not alone. I thought that was just such a interview. Talk about the experience of variety. Great when I looked down because of those there were those people out there and I know at through. Personal Francis is Wonderful Rightish is non. How the success I did but all this right what we must ride and then it becomes released. I mean there is somebody like Stephen King Friend. I like him. I respect what he does can craft store for market but You know almost all at Lewis not to Rice what we do see there except to see without last. Explain to you. Why Portland wrong when you said be ready. Taxable woman who was pregnant lineup was mistake to bring a baby at the saints the dramatic. It's interesting because you seem to have a great belief in people lucky to have listened. So interesting Philip Roth it about triggered. He himself apparently feels betrayed again in France's helpless not to ride on your own But it's what Human Stanton Dark Book Basel Trails Mall. Seen Betrayal scale would not own personal scale. You truly Germany trick twice a my own division in the face of trap should. We were slow. When I went to work for General Electric boss their public relations publicity would connell had been connell. I kept saying to me. Why would you and officers personality flow? I've been a big shot at Cornell University officer Michael Turn the day in and became managing editor of the Cornell daily Sun which with Regular morning paper and all that but I would just kept a PFC. Not through any personal false. His they have enough office that enough non coms and they stockpiled a whole bunch of college kids to Carnegie Mellon Carney Tekla Lizanne mechanical engineering there while being stalked by name being. Pfc University of Tennessee funk sermon the damage again and then they needed to grump very rivals. Srb need an lieutenant needed human wave and so we were all center. Infantry Division I wound up in this crazy division hundred six which was basic camp rather gray and the hundred six stripped volunteer. Lifted them with the non-competition officers. Were still there so there was no chance of promotion so it was a division two college kids and then we were put the day with in June and in October we were sent overseas for England and France and by then army were right on the border in Germany in December. And so we replace. This tufty fit second-division green to the college kids demoralized with no chance of promotion and actually. I was in Pitcher Matt Scott Battalion Scout but I'm infantry training at So we took over their position as perfectly quiet front and then Germans stage their last big attack right through us. She just does that. Mean what it overcast so we never planes either and the Germans not the should came right. Sir Landon distorted the peace and the order came down from the regimental commander. He had surrendered. They captured him and so he ordered us to surrender which is probably illegal orders Extreme commit suicide so Heller fragmented the division wandering all through the countryside in the snow and this was intentional because the Germans tour bizarre link with what Auburn all their tanks had left with your push to tanks were wandering around. They had rounded us up yet. And we're being hunted like animals Asia. Where American might still be the front? Listen on and on ice Probably very forty miles away. We know back without the German Penetration Very Long. And now it's not a good idea into the tanks were captured in the last young troops will kill their capture. That was intentional on. Our course is to have them come right through US and boiler attack Clark rather than amphitheater flags were completely unprotected pitch. You don't want to do so. What happened the country and with hundreds killed but we were Smith how he no sooner got that fighting for our lives. We thought. Maybe that's what everybody putting up with on the front and not at all but I think was. It could never say so lucky gambit in chess temple guy with a. Pasi lost again you will capture the a prisoner of war from December till actually warranted A proximate glared ICAL when the war actually Europe Soviet Union said. One thing we another but it was around may AIDS but then. I was in the Russian on became the Russians. That's all they've come. They locked us up and then into the regular jail roadblock and then they traded this one for one across the hope for their own people who were in the hand. The amount that were there. What ninety eight so it was Onerous on that account with my gonNa be like time some guys during the Vietnam War prisoners. You know years five months again. We're at hard labor because under the two navy convention in the treatment of will war crimes must work. They're keep non comes on have two offices. Actually that was. It was so much more interesting to be working in a city countryside. In now this on Bar. Just throw people too. So what is your kind of labor to work? News factory work and it was Packing shipping food camp foods and sweeping floors creating busts windows and stuff like that. We had to walk to work every day. In fact food distant after the city was bombed burned to the ground in abridged today that we didn't Dana corpse out of sellers. There were no air-raid shelters in Dresden. The certainly not many and so people December. We went down into ordinary showers. Like under this House and about thirty five thousand people died. Essentially of Suffocation Council House No another city became one column of flame so there was nothing degrees with rich. Did it. We know better idea where slaughterhouse five was in screen but I were to billy home. Probably said last night is pushed into the a roughly what? I said this writing out here working close enough of Meiji couple months ago. You mentioned that you didn't get back. Has Lime Disease Feature Pretty Typical? Do Combat Field notes. This reasonably reunion watched combined time talking about the trail. I answer off. Did you as you can go back and finish thaws. After you've never fix for you were saying thank you have experienced. I've had institutionally trails off on division. Chris both compromising the things Representatives person have urban seriously double. Cross can ask him 'cause he doesn't say to avert but it's implied about people are unable picture specialty. This has been great. Good life we WANNA accent about the Second World War and said he was a great adventure is the missed. Any AH saw ownership hurdle were finally captured marching in determining in stories troops are going the other way riding topple tanks is to save for no. I got a friend named Howard Smith Bombrdier. Certain Little Sadun like any movies like that. Neil derive because it makes more reputable aboard the word selfless send it to escape. Resistance to catch twenty two finally became as Popular Law American Post for World War. Two miles an hour. March teaches a lesson people to hear the military person in even the most JUSTA voice with the second world. War was find themselves. They haven can manage which a disgusting saint saying here. Bill you have plans off is I would i. Don't communist ended no fear of this. Don't care Whitman cognition myself. There's some English French realized what Poletti really more expected over there. He's really the poetry over there and so a group of young Englishman as the hat brain but came only found not live in terms of the cold water flat in Camden. Forget where they gave me this money and most of it on a mausoleum for heavy. I've seen the rose to zone into by six inches. Maybe on a side plug in the ground is left is hot Henry. We'd be better be Welby free credit. Yes yes oh I saw. That might be one dollars. Jones buried GNARLY Nominee people birds nuns. And I don't lock off very there in that. I don't think there's entity think cynical about the operation of the beautiful big building for families to gather from the Jones satellite but then you go out and There is a chapel representing particular face. And guys wearing. If you're in the army wearing dress blues which I hardly ever see now the group and not right for another Guy Blows. Tapscott good at all for Tom. Jones for twenty thirty a deserved what they do. Ms Essentially that they want you to be cremated. Arrived cremated and buried with postal digger. Down there with the markers is quite happy to be in. Ireland convinces just for the sake of BSE Grow enough you have the disadvantages of depression but I think more focus on what's important in life. I wonder look kids girl today. You know. There's so many distractions of so many things that take people's eye off. The ball based industry in this country is trucks. I mean sales people every in even handle an accident finest prep schools. You know criticism university in the industry again. We have progress visit. Chemistry hair and Talk About Mommy linebacker against three minutes. A new data enforcement of some kind is nothing. Yeah money madness. There are all these drugs. There are so available on what to do about that the proper data with which is what they did with alcohol. I mean that's not a good idea either but I think the what can they believe in in believe in the bill of Rights Sling leading the Declaration of independence? And what I what the ACLU here to do? The job is to be the first one to come out full bore for the Second Amendment and to get everybody into well to work with must. Yeah but they've got to drill drill a they've got to third take orders. Where did you go on a what was trimmed? Second Amendment of the size of the army only oath course my father become collector ensure used to go out to a used Benjamin Harrison. If you're a kid you dad was with you. And they'd be Springfield and ammunition in neutron right so we'd be really ready A. Network along with the whole class of nineteen forty shortage all previous classes. Patterson's this we were not gonNA get suckered into another or Virginia was about absolute addict gassed. Brownie faith down water-filled show hold. He draped over the bar about absolute now. We're going to do that again. But then a judge or came along which was in a way national tragedy. There were since we saw ourselves as good guys which we were really never been arrived. Wrote this I didn't expect to live as long to live. You know. My interesting is the rightist. Best Years Ryan Hemingway Steinbeck during the twenties and early Thirties. They wrote better than any right. It would just laying next inches. Masters are through twenty eight thirty and the and Bobby Fisher. Sequels really. Are This company's produced to chess geniuses. I know of call more and more through twenty nine thirty. Hey thanks for listening to the tapes archived PODCASTS. Please remember you can always find more information about the show and the individual episodes at our website but tape archive dot com until next time. The vault is closed.