Serial Killer /// Scott Lee Kimball /// Part 1 /// 382
Welcome to true crime garage wherever you are. Whatever you're doing thanks for listening. I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man who was college roommates with Pepper Brooks. He is the captain epinay. Kaden F. A. It's good to be seen good to see you. Thanks for listening and thanks for telling a friend today. We are very happy to be featuring polygamy porter from Wa Sach Brewery and Beyond Beautiful Salt Lake City Utah. This is a smooth easy. Drinking Porter was silky hints of Caramel and chocolate. Ab five percent garage grade. Four to five bottlecaps. Here's some garage. Army shells first cheers to Jill in Ridley Pennsylvania. A big cheers Maggie Baton Rouge Louisiana next up a couple of awesome or GONI INS. We have amid and Mary and Lake Oswego and a big shout to Lisa and veal in Germany. We also have heather at the UTAH. Brewers cooperative a big cheers to heather and last but certainly not least we have visual and Chicago. 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I'm sorry so so then you know what and than higher escort escort year. You'll have a medical there you go. And we've gotTA show South Being Wife Jeanette all escorts kit murdered or something. Bad happens to no. That's not what I what I'm saying to. You didn't want to go through the axe okay. But you wanted to see what happened. I wanted to keep paradise all you do. Is You come back to Colorado you hire escort and I'll show you that. What happened in use can just a bystander? Okay so you can look in the paper you. Can you know chuck sources is what I want a dame thing these like daughter hell seeing the death of Louis Daughter? Yeah want my other daughter. Maybe not maybe. Should we readable? What are you GONNA DO ASK KUNA? Strip you understand. I pick my shelter so all jokes like protecting yourself. It sounds like you were doing it for gratification. Or or just it. I know now cares about the go to make sense to you crazy. But that's just how it is. Are you working for a more conformable to realize some things that I I think For that you know a classified and how if I tell you show you? What do you listen? I you go get what jail. Joe Scott Lee Kimball was born on September twenty first nineteen sixty six in Boulder Colorado. His parents were Virgil in Barb Kimball. From what we could find it looks like Scott was not one of the popular kids at school. He attended Lafayette entry in middle schools. He was described by a classmate as quiet. Barb in Virgil divorced. When Scott was ten years old. Barb fell in love with another woman. Virgil and Scott's brother Brett moved to Montana and Scott stayed behind in Colorado but Scott left high school after only one month eventually. After a few years he relocated to join his father and Brett. But listen to this captain because we often see this in these types a bad omen a sign that something is just not right. Police were called to Scott's home during a strange episode in Scots Teenage Years. When he was shooting his father's gun out of one of the windows he was shooting at neighbor's homes. Now it's not clear. Exactly what was going on here? Was He actually trying to shoot someone or was this? Just some kind of weird thing or maybe a revenge type thing. I don't know but regardless this is a significant event and at the very least could be categorized as extremely reckless behavior. Scott attended high school in Hamilton Montana. A town of four thousand people but he dropped out just shy of graduating. He worked as a guide. He guided clients on big game hunting. Expeditions he also made some really bad choices. Not just the shooting at houses incident. Scott was arrested for stupid things like knocking over mailboxes. In June of nineteen eighty eight at the age of twenty one. He was arrested and convicted of felonious passing of bad checks. His three year sentence was deferred however on the condition that he stay above the law. Scott like many others. He likes spending money he did not have. He was arrested again in October of eighty eight for passing more bad checks but because this felony conviction occurred in a different county his sentence was once again deferred and it didn't activate his previous conviction so Scott to say simply got off very easy and both of these situations. He continued to rack up arrest although not all of them resulted in convictions. He was arrested in October of eighty eight again this time for stealing a fishing pole two rifles and a shotgun and set a golf clubs. This was from a residence or multiple residences in Broomfield Colorado. He was turned loose which is surprising to me. And I'm sure everybody else out there. Considering that the part of this theft involved a gun right He was arrested again in March This time for attempted theft and receives a one year unsupervised probation and a two hundred and thirty two dollar fine so again. This is just really no real punishment and all four. Oh what we're seeing is continued bad behavior right. And if you still a gun. Are you still some checks? And they did slap on the wrist or why not do it again because you probably got away with it a couple of times before you actually got yeah if consequences dictate my course of action. It's only wrong if I get caught or if I if I don't like the consequences right. He's not really being punished. So Scott continued to self destruct and actually even attempted to end his life at one point. This was while on a hunting trip with his brother. Remember his brother. Brett Scott was twenty three at this time. He went to his motel room and he put a rifle to his head. Any actually pulled the trigger and the gun was loaded. The bullet ripped a hole in his forehead as it bounced off of his skull. Scott was in critical condition for many days. Of course he was not in a good place. Psychologically as we can all see this led to the discovery of years of abuse that took place during his teen years. So what we would we would find out here. Captain is Scott was the victim of a sexual predator. This started when he was just about ten years old when he and his seven year old cousin were tricked her befriended or whatever. You WANNA call it by a forty one year old computer programmer. His name Theodore Peyton. Peyton was a neighbor of Scott's grandmothers in a trailer park in Neater Lynn Colorado. And we know how this goes. We know how this typically starts off right. Peyton is he. He befriends these children and he is taking them places. Giving the money takes them bowling. You know hanging out playing video games right but pretty soon. He started inviting them to his cabin. This one at a time. You know you don't want both of them there and now he's doing things that are just downright wrong. He's giving them alcohol. This leads to. Oh getting out the camera. Let's take some photographs and of course eventually this all leads to rape and outright molestation according to the two boys this continued for years with the boys and their families being threatened by. Peyton right so he's kind of controlling them by by not only molesting and raping these boys but on top of that. He's telling them if you say anything I I'm going to hurt you and I'm going to hurt your family. Initially it looks like these crimes of check fraud and stuff are just a crime of greed. Maybe not a call for help but now when you dive into this section you go well maybe maybe these work cried for help but there was no punishment so nobody was coming to his help. Cry For help or sometimes unfortunately when these things when somebody's abused in this manner a really many other manners to put it frankly in their formidable years of coming up as a teenager especially with this stuff starting when he's ten or eleven years old they have mind altering effects that last a lifetime for somebody. We mentioned that he was threatening the boys in threatening their families for my understanding captain that the threats were as great as as possible murder. Death threats shooting. These kids are shooting their family right. The cousin later told police about the abuse and he said that it happens so often that he eventually lost count of the number of incidents that took place. The situation continued as we said until the boys reach their later teen years now remember. Scott is not living in the area of his grandmother so his situation is a little different than than the cousin who is also being abused But when Scott would come back to visit grandma and when he would come back to visit other family the abuse was still taking place when he would return to that area. Let me see a lot of children. Describe their predators as the devil so imagine that the devil is doing these horrible things to you and then on top of that Saint. Hey if you tell him by want to kill you and I'm going to kill your family. Apparently this situation continued until the boys reached their later teen years when they were actually able to stand up for themselves but as we said this did not emerge publicly until Scott was twenty three when he tried to shoot himself in the head right so in light of his and the cousins allegations which were brought to light by therapy Scott underwent after the suicide attempt the Boulder County. Sheriff's Office investigated Peyton and they were able to bring some charges against this man in nineteen ninety one. A jury convicted Peyton of six counts of sexual assault on a child. He was sentenced to seven years. Apparently he was released after five. He returned to the area where he had lived when he was abusing the boys and lived out his remaining days there in a letter to the court objecting to a sentence reduction for peyton. Scott Kimball wrote the following quote. Ted Peyton denied me my right to a normal healthy innocent childhood because of Ted Peyton selfishness and his need for sexual gratification. He has damaged my life forever unquote now recovered from his suicide. Attempt Scott relocated to spokane Washington in the early nineteen nineties. He obtained employment in the timber. Business out there. He brought along with him his girlfriend. This is a Larussa. Hence who he met in Montana in nineteen ninety-three the two were married. Scott is now twenty seven at this point on our time line now this young new couple they had two sons one in late of Nineteen ninety-three in one in nineteen ninety-six. It doesn't sound like things. Panned out in the timber trade. They're because Scott and Laura filed for bankruptcy in June of nineteen ninety six and the couple divorced in nineteen ninety seven later. Larussa would reveal some details of of her married life. to Scott Campbell and says Scott was not operating. Within the Law Scott's past of his you know modus operandi of defrauding people and stealing funds continued during the course of their marriage according to Larisa he engineered scam after scam and had people constantly chasing after him trying to collect money that he frauded them out of her stole from them and possibly reason why moved to Washington in the first place. Yeah The other thing too as we said he he always managed to avoid actual jail or prison time. But this would this would end in September of nineteen ninety seven when he did serve twenty seven days in jail for unknown offenses. I do not know what the charges were. Now we're making it. Allocate twenty seven days. Isn't that long? Well exactly. I don't know what the charge would have been could have been something. That's a hiccup. That's a vacation pretty minor Yeah not one that I wanNA take though We're making it out as though Scott is some kind of low level con artists who just happen to get away with check cashing scams and fraudulent moneymaking schemes. But what I believe that we will see here. Captain that the truth of the matter is that Scott's he's pretty talented as a con artist and I think what we're going to see. Is that his con artist? Skills might be off the charts and you know everyone who met him even though I'll judge that determined to see him in prison for the remainder of his days begrudgingly admits. That Scott was the best at this Universally he they say he was liked. He was jovial friendly and seemingly trustworthy. This is how Scott was described time and time again over and over these people that that knew him and met him throughout his life. Why you can tell even by his later in views that there is a brain inside his head. Yeah and what we will see as we go through. This is he. Truly just. He snowed people. He befriended people made them feel special. Build up their trust and then he cheated them. Yeah obeys no frame cabin now? What happens next on the Scott? Time-line gives us a clear cut example of how trustworthy he really seemed to be. In the spring of Nineteen. Ninety nine Scott Kimball agree to work for the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms as an informant on a stolen guns investigation. Yes this is an agency of our federal government taking on a conman scam artist a fraudulent trek rider into their fold. Now it's not really clear how this arrangement came about and it did not result in any arrest although Scott reportedly gave the ATF. Some names but not only did Scott get personal satisfaction from being a trusted informant for the feds. He got paid for a grand total of one thousand eight hundred sixty five dollars. The Rue the relationship was over by November of Nineteen Ninety Nine Scott Kimball benefited both as we said financially but also in terms of establishing goodwill with the feds a by December of Nineteen Ninety Nine. It was apparent that Scott was not only a scam artists but he was also violent on December eighth. His Ex Wife. Larussa reported to spokane police. This Scott kidnapped her at gunpoint raped her and forced her and the couple's two sons to accompany him back to Montana. No charges were filed for this incident. And there's a lot of speculation here as to why there were no charges filed. I don't know that I feel super comfortable getting into it knowing as little as we do about this situation But we would see this one more time this when Lewis again called police this time on December eighteenth Saying that Scott had broke into her house that night and held her at gunpoint then he made her take a bath and stole money from her purse again. No case no charges were brought forward in this incident as well now remember. The twos suspended sentences for convictions. For passing bad checks that he go over that again. He broke in made her take a bath after another sexual assault. And there's and there's no charges whatsoever that's correct. It's ridiculous again I. I don't WanNA speculate as to why there were no charges. Both of these situations we know very little about. Yeah so I mean it could be could be as simple as something as she called the police and then later says. I don't want to press any charges that's why I don't want to get into the speculation. I don't I don't we can't fault the the police department if the the person that notifies them later than says no. I don't WANNA I don't WanNA bring any charges. Well no you can fault on on some level because there's a possibility that she just doesn't feel safe enough that she can press charges that he actually presses charged with this guy's a animal and look what he did to me he might come back in and kill me. I agree but I think that it's irresponsible of myself to lay blame to someone or or an organization with with knowing nothing really about the situation. Yeah well let's not lay blame to to the organization but let's let's lay blame on the the idea that we we know this situation happened and we don't know why went down this way. Well that's why I don't WanNa Laity because I don't know that I don't know that it happened so I want to go back to the to suspended sentences for The the bad checks that took place in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight when Scott was just twenty one so he finds himself in jail once again this time in January of two thousand this time for violating his probation remember. He got probation for those charges. He violated his probation. This is for traveling and also for failing to report now. Finally a little justice here. This takes place in April of two thousand A. Judge threw the book. Adam Scott was sentenced to ten years in Montana. State Prison this for violating those probation now. Five years of this sentence were suspended but Scott was looking at five years of hard time. Five years in the Clink District Judge Hanson. Row of Scott Quo. The defendant is impossible to supervise in a community setting. You're irresponsible untruthful and simply do what you want to do. Regardless of the rules and conditions imposed by this court then even more charges were brought against him this time for three counts of felony check forgery. That occurred in. Nineteen ninety nine in spokane. His additional conviction piled up eight more months onto his prison. Sentence this is where the story really starts to gain some momentum here. Captain Scott's sentence his five years eight months with the five year suspended actually only resulted in him serving fifteen months in July. Two thousand one. He was relocated to a pre release center and Helena Montana. He was permitted to get a job on the outside and just report back to the center win. Not at work. Scott landed himself a job as a cashier at the easy stop gas station but within just a couple of weeks. Scott decided a change of scenery would be nice on July. Twenty Ninth Scott was working alone at the gas station. Let's quickly review. What the good judge said of Scott Remember saying. He was impossible to supervise in a community. He's irresponsible untruthful and simply does not. He simply does what he wants. Regardless of the rules while the District Judge Hanson was what we call here in the garage. Exactly right so while working at the station alone on the twenty ninth of July Scott Lifted. Six hundred seventy seven dollars from the register. He stole a work truck and he took off for parts. Unknown ocoee doors. I imagine there was several slim. Jims and a big gulp stolen from that gas station as well. That didn't go reported Ryan. That's the real crime here. Well now Scott. You are a wanted man. A warrant was issued for the arrest of Scott Lee Kimball but where did Scott high tail it to on the run from the law in the stolen truck where else but the furthest place away he could think of? Alaska is not known how Scott managed to get across the Canadian border but knowing his charisma and charm he probably just sweet talked his way in there. And it didn't take long for him to turn up in Alaska captain. This is because he could not resist falling back on his old ways. Writing bad checks this time. Scott assumed the identity of Brett Kimball his brother in the few months since his escape. Brett wrote twenty five thousand dollars. In counterfeit checks collected the cash and had landed himself a fiance. As far as this woman whose name is Catherine Curtis was concerned. Scott was a man named Brett Kimball and they were in love and living in a hotel room where Scott was eventually found and arrested during a raid. Along with eleven thousand. Three hundred dollars in cash was just proves that love is the biggest connell. This episode is brought to you by hallmark cards. You know we always felt like we need a special reason. Give someone a card and you. Don't I recently gave my mother card to Salerno how much I appreciate her? 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Captain is pay much less attention to the actual dates that we say but pay more to Scott's actions as we go through this piece of the story Scott of course was not happy sitting in jail and he managed to come up with some excitement for himself. You know always seeking the limelight and backslapping from authorities. Scott snitched that his cellmate. One Arnold Flowers who was in for fraud and asked him to hire a hit man to murder a federal judge a prosecutor and two witnesses. So Scott also named Arnold's girlfriend as a CO conspirator in this whole thing and sure enough a press release by the US Department of Justice dated March Twenty second two thousand and two states have flowers and his girlfriend were indicted for plotting to kill a judge a prosecutor and a witness in the fraud case so according to the Department of Justice Release Flowers had provided a handwritten note of four intended victims to an intermediary who was to make contact with a hitman. Of course this intermediary was Scott. The plot went so far as to see the girlfriend. Go to a hotel room to meet the person. She believed to be a Hitman and pay him a down payment for the murders. The Department of Justice released concludes quote investigation. Leading to the arrest was the result of a cooperative effort of the United States secret service. Federal Bureau of Investigation Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms and the United States. Marshals Service and quote. What what's really going on here. Exactly what we have to kind of look at this situation and kind of examine it right. Yeah do we think that Scott just stumbled into a murder for hire plot and decided to sing like a bird and rat on his cellmate for the good of the land thinking probably not So here's what I think probably happened here. Captain I think Scott may have figured out a way to kind of orchestrate this whole thing in a way of saying you know if starts telling his soulmate. Hey I I know hitman or or I know people that will will kill somebody for for money. You know I can put out a contract on someone and this guy who's in sitting in jail sitting in prison starts mouth off saying hey. I'd like to kill that judge. Put Me in here. Oh by the way to kill it prosecutor that put me in here and they wouldn't have been able to put me away if it wasn't for those two witnesses right and I think this this handwritten no I call into question too. Is it possible that the Scott manufactured that no and provided a as some piece of evidence against these individuals? What I'm getting at here is look. There's a good chance that his his cellmate probably did want to kill these people and had intentions to especially after Scott tells them. Hey I knew how to set something like this up but is this. This is seems to me more about you know what I'm in prison. How can I weas on my way out of here as fast as possible? I'M GONNA turn on this dude and getting good with with the authorities right. Scott went on to testify at the trial which took place in two thousand and three and the pair was convicted of witness tampering but they were acquitted of the murder for hire charges. Scott was paid. This really sucks. Scott was paid eighteen thousand dollars by the FBI for his cooperation as a witness in the case against flowers and his girlfriend so stupid. That's a Lotta rolling papers in October of two thousand and one. This is before Salah Slim. Jim Yeah this is before the the flowers murder plot that we just discussed assistant. Us Attorney Tom Wales. He's forty nine years old. He's a father of two. He's killed at his home in Seattle Washington. Someone shot through a basement window and shot him while he was sitting at a desk down there in his basement. We know from what we could find. That Scott was in the Seattle area in the fall of two thousand one. This was just for a short time. This is when he opened up a bogus. Wells Fargo account under the name Brett Kimball his brother's name. He would later tell federal authorities then. He had information about the wells murder now. I should point out that this case technically is unsolved to this day. The wells murder case is still unsolved. Investigators eventually began to suspect that Scott actually may have had something to do with the murder either himself or through somebody else although. If that's true the motive would be truly unknown. We we could speculate but there doesn't seem to be an obvious motive here now. According to a book written by Scott's cousin the book is titled S. L. K. Serial Killer Scott was working on a fishing boat in Seattle in the fall of two thousand one and Scott was arrested in Alaska this in November of two thousand and one. He used information about the whales murder case to play the FBI. Gleaning whatever information he could about the case off of the Internet he convinced authorities that he had overheard a couple of inmates talking about the wells case and that he might be able to offer them information about this wells case so Scott starts feeding the FBI bogus information. He Strung along pretty good meeting with agents and number of times including one three day meeting in Seattle that took place from February. Twenty four th to the twenty seventh of two thousand and three well. Let's think about this for a second. I need inform it. I know that this guy is a criminal or career long conman. Do you really mess with the conman. I wonder how that meeting went down. I wonder if there's two F. B. I. Agents one sitting looking at the other one going. Hey this is not to be trusted. He is a con man and the other guy going. Wow no I kind of believe him seems like a good guy. So what's interesting? Here I think is the continued. The continued ammo of Scott Kimball. Okay twice he finds himself behind bars and when he does it seems like he's coming up with these plans of. I'M GONNA turn on this guy or these guys and what carrot do I have to dangle in front of the authorities because if you if you go to likely looking. This is all speculation here. But if I'm Scott Kimbler when I go to them and I say hey this guy that I'm in a cell with these guys that I overheard talking in the yard They're going to kill some dude that you've never heard of. Maybe he's a drug pusher or or check counterfeiter or somebody else Some do you never heard of? I have information on. That Scott's smart enough to know I need. That's not a big carrot. That's not a very big enough carrot to to really help my situation that seems to be all he's attempting to do. What do we see in the first case? He's turning on his cellmate. Saying this guy was gonNA kill a judge. He was going to kill a prosecutor. He was going to kill witnesses that the Department of Justice and the the law enforcement the authorities value the protection of witnesses. Like you wouldn't believe and they should very smartly so yeah cracked and he's there he's GonNa kill two witnesses and hire somebody to and then what is what do we see once. He's once again in prison. It's Oh I heard I might have some information regarding the murder of the assistant. Us Attorney Tom Wales so these are big carrots that he's coming up with and I it's almost like to me like you pointed out like why why would you. Why would the FBI? Why would these organizations get involved with this guy who clearly is a con? Man is clearly is a scam artist. He's what he's one of these people that he's behind bars because of what they would call paper cases where you can easily put together evidence against this individual because everything he stole or frauded people from was the result of paper a paper trail that he put together himself that you can apply to him and get conviction what we have here though. Is SOMEBODY GOING LOOK? We can these are. This is a big cases. This is a big to do. This is violent. This is murder. This is judges prosecutors attorneys this big a big deal. Maybe we deal with this little paper case guy because we we need to prevent these big things from taking place Brian. We're we're after bigger. Fish is what I think you think is happening at the time. Now as we said the whales case is unsolved. Apparently it sounds to me like investigators suspect the Scott Kimball may have. Actually he could have possibly been the shooter. There's some speculation as to that captain. I don't WanNa get too far into that but I think the reason why they think that there was a strange letter that shows up to the Seattle. Fbi Office okay. This letter was postmarked from Las Vegas and dated January third in this letter. The writer said that he was the killer of Tom. Wales he said a woman hired him to shoot Wales. We will get into this much much more later but there is some good reason to possibly believe that Scott was passing through Las Vegas in January of two thousand and six. So there's a chance that he wrote and mailed the letter I I. I'm getting a little confused in the story here as to what I believe is likely. I don't know that he may have been the shooter or if he's really just manipulating the system because as said it seems to me like all the information he was able to provide to the authorities regarding the murder of Wales he could have found all that on the Internet. Right which if he sitting behind bars and he gets use of a computer at the You know when he goes to the library wherever that he could have he could have found all of that information in Beck wasted together with some of these cells these days they might have computers right in their cell. Well keep in mind like one of the one of the biggest problems that we have and Some of these prisons is the prisoners. Want to sneak in cell phones. They WANNA get a cell phone in their one. 'cause they can call whomever they want whenever they want but also are imagine you can get some kind of Internet service as well right. Why no I have a friend? That was complaining. Because their turned they have a relative. That's in jail and it was their turn. They all decided as a family to help individual Try to reform and better his life that they would get cable for his cell so they pay like a monthly fee for this little. Tv that gets cable in the south. So it's basically like a net flicks Netflix and chill behind bars Yeah I just be sitting in there watching reruns of monk and the office concept I think really love ministries real punishment you know and I don't WanNa get into a whole debate of what prisoners should have and what they shouldn't have because I actually I actually believe depending on what type of prison you are are and what type of offender you are. That should vary. Maybe there's like a tier process but it lease the the worst of the worst when they have cable that angers me so badly I think that the the real the real bad guys you know what real punishment is C. Span baby you can watch C. Span for that's all you get to see and you get maybe forty five minutes of the day. Tear your eyes out. Yeah I think we should start off with a genital mutilation and then work up from there. You know to really punish people well. So what does the Tom Wales? Murder in Scott. Kimble's telling the feds that he had information on this case have to do with the bigger picture. Let's say that the his cooperation and this is key. This is key to our story here. Captain his cooperation with the authorities on the whales case and also the flowers case that we already went through this is what would lead the FBI. Turn him turn to him again. In another case down the road and we will see that that will have devastating consequences. All right captain so for those of you following along at home and for those of you who are completely lost what we have here is we have Scott Lee Kimball who has spent the last few years in and out of prison. He's been arrested for multiple different charges and even in a different areas as well so regarding the the order of this. Let's go to two thousand and two because there's going to be something very significant to the story that takes place in two thousand and two this remember Scott was arrested in Alaska for forging checks and because he escaped from that prison pre-release in Montana in June. He is transferred to federal prison in Littleton Colorado. This is because he told authorities that his life had been threatened by multiple inmates. This is because he's a snitch. By this point he's snitched on his cellmates Especially the we're talking about the flowers case here. So Scott's history of cooperating with authorities would soon earn him another informant role and a prison release in the fall of two thousand and two Scott reported to the FBI. That his cellmate. A Steve Ennis had asked Scott to murder another drug dealer. This guy's name is Jason Price. Who was going to testify against Steve? Ns Ns was doing ten years in federal prison on drug charges for running a massive ecstasy distribution network and the DA was monitoring his activities carefully. Now it's unclear. What IF ANYTHING STEVE. Ns was really cooking up again. Is this something that Steve was actually putting into. Placers is something that Scott Kimball is manufacturing and providing bogus information in regards to. It seems possible that Steve might have made some noises about wanting this guy dead and then Scott acted on that It's unclear what Steve Thought. Scott's role in Steve's plans were because he wasn't supposed to be getting out anytime soon so that's what's a little tricky here. How would steve think that Scott could help him while they're both on the inside so this makes three times well? Yeah and that's why I kind of pointed out that. I think it's a little strange that Steve would try to get Scott involved in this whole murder-for-hire plot because how would steve think that Scott could provide him any assistance in this wind. Scott is looking at doing almost as much time as as Steve. Right you you know you. How's he going to get this going from the inside? Steve could probably get this going on his own from the inside and we know how these prison populations work. This dude was already moved there because he saying hey. I'm being threatened because I'm a snitch. I read it out some other guys before. So Scott seems like the last person that an inmate would tell. Hey I'm thinking about killing this guy. That's going to testify against me at trial this this rival Drug dealer or whatever you WANNA call them. I want this guy dead. It doesn't make sense that he would tell Scott. That's why I question here captain. Is this something that Scott. Just totally manufactured all on his own. Because he's learned time and time again and he's he's executed this before where he goes. You know I'm GonNa either make up this stuff about this guy or I'm GonNa rat on this dude over over real stuff either way. It's going to benefit me and in this situation. It could get me out of prison very quickly. So that's why I wanted to bring that up because we gotta keep in mind even though he's becoming an informant and he's riding on these dudes is there a chance that he's just manufacturing all this stuff himself and putting the pieces together and then feeding it to the authorities so really this situation to me is very reminiscent of the flowers case that we already discussed because somehow Scott got word to the FBI. That his cellmate Steve. Ns was plotting to kill someone on the outside. And and again as I stated this is another witness this is when the FBI will same setup right. It's like it's like you said you. Can you can watch his interviews. You can see him. You can listen to him speak. There's a brain in there. This guy is also brains and the F. B. I. Agents you'd think they'd go eh. This seems familiar. Oh I agree with you. One hundred percent one hundred percent. It's strange to me how this guy was able to make this work time and time again but I do think he's probably pretty good at what he did. And that's no excuse but it's also one of these things that he's like Scott Kimball figured out like this works and GonNa keep doing it until it stops working so what we have here is. He wasn't known conman known criminal. Guy That suspected in other other crimes other than conman situations the FBI. There's no excuse for that. There's no excuse for our FBI to be tricked. Oh I'm not gonNA pretend it's completely dumb of them to believe him time and time again. I think what they're blinded by is what we pointed out earlier. This is up. This is a paper case guy. Pretty low level. Who doesn't seem to be violent? I mean we do have those allegations of things by his ex-wife but there were never charges brought forward on any of that so they're not seeing that stuff but what what they're seeing is. Oh we got these bigger fish that we want to go after all. They're seeing that stuff. They know that happened and they know there was no charges that that stuff doesn't just go away the FBI would know that stuff or should know that stuff. You wouldn't have any record of it though I'm just saying they should. I'm just saying that are if there was a possible situation that the charges were never brought. That might not go on your criminal history. But that's not that's not the record that the FBI has of each individual in America. They have a lot of data on you on me on every listener. That's listening to the show well regardless this is going to be when the F. B. I. Formerly will take on Scott Kimball as an actual informant and this is going to earn Scott Abe released from prison. Hold ON KIDS. If if he falls you twice might as well have him work for you. This takes place on December eighteenth. Two Thousand and two and Scott is released from prison in order to quote actively cooperate with the F. b. i. on the Stephen. Ns matter and quote what was Scott's role in this whole thing well. He was ordered by F. B. I. Agent Carl Sh- laugh to pretend to be a man named Joseph Lee Scott and the F. B. I was going to set him up with this new identity provided to him And they gave him a birth certificate and a driver's license saying that he was in fact. Joseph Lee Scott so Scott Kimball who is now Joe Scott. He's put in charge of keeping an eye on Steve. Ns his girlfriend her name. Is Jennifer Marcum? So Scott Campbell told authorities. This is how we get to Jennifer Marcum. He told authorities the Jennifer Marcum in his girlfriend. Since she is the one on the outside she is going to be the one that sets up this whole murder plot. I'm guessing that means Kimball told law enforcement that she was going to hire the killer. So Jennifer Marcum was also a potential witness for the DA a large meth case and the short of it is Scotland Kimball is now out of prison living under a new identity and working with the FBI in all of this is going to turn into some very bad bad business and fairly quickly now before we wrap up here captain we must give a big thank you and shout out to a website. This is Scott Lee Kimball Dot Com. It's a website that is maintained by the daily camera which is a Boulder Colorado newspaper. Dating all the way back to eighteen ninety. That's right your great. Great Grandfather was reading the daily camera. The website was invaluable to our research in. The site includes a timeline and links to numerous articles about the case. And if the name the daily camera sounds familiar longtime listeners will remember. The daily camera was a great source for our six part Jon Benet Ramsey coverage which took place in episodes to eighty to eighty five. This episode is brought to you by hallmark cards. I recently gave my mother card just to let her know how much I appreciate her and meant so much in. You don't need a special reason to send a card. Give a little love with hallmark. Give it a try to see what a card can do to show how much you care visit hallmark dot com slash garage to shop cards for any occasion and use our Promo Code Garage. Get Twenty percents off your card. Purchase VISIT HALLMARK DOT COM SLASH GARAGE TODAY. Whatever struggles you are facing from depression anxiety trauma and grieve better help can connect you with a professional counselor safe in private online environment. It's so convenient. You can schedule a secure video or phone session as well as Chan text with your therapist and anything that you share is completely confidential. Best of all. It's a truly affordable option. 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