20200708 Nicole Sandler Show - The Beginning or the End
The following program contains graphic material, including offensive language viewer discretion is advised. Jeez got the news she talks with newsmakers encourages us to laugh, and she cries with us speaking truth to power and Questioning Authority daily. It's the knuckles antler show. All right it's a Wednesday the middle of the week, somebody. Years ago decided to call. It Hump Day. And it stuck. And I always hated that term, but I just wrote it in the chat room. Alright so. Happy Hump Day everyone. Welcome to it. We have an interesting guests coming up today Greg Mitchell is somebody that I met a few years back when he used to write for the Nation magazine, and he left the nation a few years ago and you know I. Know I knew that he wrote about media and politics, and but but it was always with a different slant. Well, his new book was just released yesterday, and it's called the beginning or the end how Hollywood and America learned to stop worrying and love the bomb now that subtitle you know is taken a bit from Dr Strangelove Right, or you should know because that's like one of the greatest movies about the bomb ever. But this book is actually about a different movie about the bomb that was called the beginning or the end, and it was a major Hollywood production back made shortly after. The We dropped bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki so. But it's it's an interesting. Take on it because it has to do with the way Hollywood approached this film. And how then the Truman Administration got in there and sort of took control of of the thing so. Anyway that's. That's what's. Coming up our guest today is Greg Mitchell and we'll talk about this book, but there's a lot of stuff going on before we get there, so. Let's. Let's not wait any further. Let's start with a funny as I like to do. Because you know things, get serious as the as the as the show progresses, the problem is I've got three different videos to choose from. And, while they're all kind of funny, and they're all semi regulars. We have one from the parody project. We have one from founders sing, and we have one from the kipness in South Africa. And, but they're all a little on the dark side, so I guess. I can just pick I. Guess I'll just pick. Let's go with. will go with the founder. Sing founder, saying just launched. I don't know a few months back. With a video, a parody of Don McLean's American Pie that was the animation on the video was wonderful, because it was all our founding. Fathers from you know, Washington and Jefferson and Hamilton and you know the you know the drill. All. Animated Singing, the song and you know it's like an eight minute song, so they all had a verse. So that's where I guess. The name founders saying came from now beyond that. They've done subsequent videos without the founding fathers with personalities like Oh, Dr Foul Chee and The OBAMAS and you name it and today's Today's song is song by the one and only Jesus. Christ yeah. Because, why not when it's animation? Why not right and and the song is titled. Today, amazing waste, so you know what's coming. Kinda SORTA anyway, take it away. Founders sing with amazing waste. It says some evangelicals believe trump is God's chosen. One Jesus felt compelled to set the record straight. Where prophets those who come to you in sheep's clothing inwardly are ravenous wolves. Every sound tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears evil fruit. Something like that. Now now the Song kicks in. Waste. Who? Call. This grazed. Look. ooh! Edgy who? Radio? A! Way? Songs. Wait. Hey. Sales? Just. Not. Yeah Ooh, let's get rid of the ECHO. ECHO effect I. Think come on, go go away there we go. Founder Sing. Amazing waste. Couldn't have said it any better myself and certainly couldn't have sung it better. Those and I don't know a whole lot about them, but there were founders saying as usual I will post the video on the blog at Nicole Sandler calm along with today's show. So you can see the wonderful an an animation, in case, you only heard the audio. There I'm any S. Jesus was Brown. In case you were wondering yeah so. Today is July eighth. And you know on facebook. They have this memory thing where it says she see your memories with the. Thus and such, and so it tagged a few people, and I thought Oh I wonder what this was about, and I looked back and the things that it was showing me. We're no big deal, but then I got back four years four years ago today. Was Really fucked up day. Oh my God first of all. That was the day we awoke to a video. Of A man being shot dead in Minneapolis in his car by police with his girlfriend, and her three or four year old daughter in the backseat. His name was philander Castille. Remember him, and and we were all shocked and it just. That was four years ago today. And look what it took four years filled with similar. Incidents of COPS. Killing unarmed mostly black people. In it's just so so that's how the day began four years ago today, but I'm looking through my memories on facebook and I see. The first thing I see. From four years ago is sitting in bed, watching the madness on TV. It's a sad mad world. And then a little bit later. I wrote. I'm at the hospital looks like they're keeping me overnight. No show tomorrow. And the next one, said Classic Female Heart. Attack Symptoms left job Brent left job. Pain short of breath awoken a poll of sweat like lightheaded now watching the news in horror. And then. I had an update and the update said I may have had a minor heart attack last night, being transferred to another hospital for Angiogram, needless to say no show today. And what happened was so the next morning I guess today it's so the thing happened on the seventh. So now it's the eighth. Posted at about midnight on July eighth so four years ago. From the from the hospital, and they kept me overnight. Because the enzymes whatever enzymes shows up, looked like I had a heart attack, so they wanted to transfer me the next morning to another hospital to get an angiogram. which they wound up doing so I transferred. Long story was much longer story than that had to fight with the United Healthcare for the ambulance to take me to the right hospital the hospital where the my cardiologists was at. So we fought and got it all taken care of but one thing. This hospital didn't tell me is when they did the x ray of my chest that they noticed a mass on my left lung. And it wasn't until the next day the next day when I was at the other hospital and and They are to have the. Angiogram you know the calf? To See if my order is were blocked that my cardiologists said. Did they tell you anything else at the hospital. I said no, just that. You know just just that. The my enzymes were elevated and he said. So. They didn't tell you. They found a mass on your long. no. So, that began my journey into learning that I had lung cancer, although it was still another couple of weeks away to get the diagnosis, but it was four years ago today that I learned from the other doctor from the cardiologists, not the not the doctor at the original hospital that I went to that. I had a mouse on my lung. It was also the day. You know I joke I kidd. The way that we discovered I had lung cancer was the. because. We thought I had a heart attack and I went to the hospital, and they did this chest X. Ray to see if my heart was enlarged and it showed. A mass on my left lung. Which started the ball rolling, but What happened with rent back? Then I had just a couple of months earlier started working with Randy Rhoads at the studio. She built up in Delray Beach. We were going to work together. And we started on the progressive voices network, and all that and we had I massive blow out of fight that day it was the seventh of July, so it would have been four years ago yesterday, and that's when I realized this relationship was not going to work. And I got home and I felt really bad, and I told David said I'M GONNA. Lie Down I. Just don't feel well all the way driving home something was wrong. And lay down. I took a nap and I woke up drenched in sweat. And that's when you know. We decided that I was going to go to the hospital, but it was also. The joke was afterwards. Randy Rhoads Made me. Have a heart attack, so she almost killed me, but she saved my life. So that's our little joke. If you ever hear me, say Randy almost killed me but save my life. That's why. So anyway. Yeah I'm coming up next a in the next couple of weeks. I'm supposed to go in for my. Quarterly or now it's twice a year cat. Scan to make sure I'm okay. What they tell you is when you make it through five years. Post Surgery, or once you go into remission then. You're cured and the only time they ever use the cured word with cancer so long story short for those of you who are Neil here? It was August thirtieth. That I wound up having surgery and they removed. To. To tumors from left long they removed the entirety of the lower left lobe that had the bigger mass, and then there was a smaller mass and the upper left. Lobe so they did a wedge recession and no gene. Just ask so. Was it also a heart attack? No, and that's the weird thing. My the cardiologists did the angiogram. You said your hearts beautiful. There is no problem there so something. Something intervened to say you know. Go get checked out. Because frankly we caught the cancer so early, even though it was to two separate and distinct tumors that were not related. Otherwise, it would have been a mistake metastasized. The second one would have been a metastasized tumor coming off the first one in would have been a lot worse off, but no two separate and distinct. Instances of lung cancer. They were not genetically related, which is the weird. But so. August thirtieth they'll be four years since the surgery and knock on laminate here I am. So. facebook. fucked up as it is. has some good reminders every now and then and especially you know Y- being this week the way it was losing to friends in the past week I realized just how precious life is and how everything changes in the you know flip of a switch in a New York second so. Now Anyway I'll keep you posted I'm I'm supposed to go to the The oncologist again next week, but you gotTA deal with insurance and getting the the referral in the approval for the cat scan, and so who knows because I? I've been putting it off because of the cove head because I don't really want to go to. Anywhere I don't want to go to Any doctor's office. Don't want to go. Have the cat scan? Don't want to go to the. Office, but you know we do what we do. You do what you have to do. All right so. Moving right along. I'll tell you what I've got news for you. We had the Supreme Court today with five count them. Five opinions left to deliver. gave us to. But they did tell us tomorrow will be the final day for the term that that well that that technically ended on June thirtieth. Tomorrow, we'll get the last three decisions I'll fill you in on all of that in just a moment, but let's try to take a break and I. Always say try because it doesn't always work, so we'll give it a shot because we need to try to get in some commercials on the progressive. Voices Network, we'll be right back so progressive voices is an ads while they're in commercials We'll do this. A little bit of Jim Hightower K.. Once again, my state of Texas is saddled with a Republican Gubernatorial Guber Greg Abbott is this guy's name and he's another incompetent. Right wing ideologue, whose botched handling of our states covid nineteen crisis makes Donald Trump look like a master administrator of public health I as a small minded small government zealot habit obsequious followed trump's lead of do nothing ISM pretending the bad thing will just drift away as a result, droves of Texans were dying so. So he rushed out to express astonishment and concern yet he cravenly refused to offend his corporate and far-right backers by putting such life, saving measures as business closures, requiring mess in public and stay at home orders worse, the Little Petty potentate infuriated local officials by banning them from taking protective actions in their communities. Bizarrely habit declared he was focused not on preventing infections, but on making sure there were enough hospital beds for those who get infected. Well have bragged that providing an adequate number of graves was his priority for sure enough thousands more Texans were soon dying because of his incompetence finally Abbott the absent, was forced to enact a stay at home mandate, but he declared it was not a stay at home order. Instead it was essential services and activities protocols. Then he got really strange after banning local officials from requiring mask-wearing, he declared. declared it hidden a trick door in that executive order. If they could divine the riddle, the trick was that while mayors and others could not require face mass, they could require stores, bars, offices, factories, and other businesses to require mass. This is Jim. hightower saying isn't that fun playing pandemic. Word Games with people's lives. Critics who save Republican leaders have no sense of humor. Haven't met Greg Abbott. HIGHTOWER's commentaries are brought to you by the hightower lowdown, the monthly newsletter with hightower's take on what Wall Street and Washington to for information visit hightower lowdown dot, Org. Every long for the lawlessness of the old. West! Now's your chance to rise above the law for a fistful of only sixty dollars new incorporate incorporate. You sorry. I'm inc.. Thanks to your apathy, the force amendment and your civil rights of been abolished corporations now have the rights of individual. Or this mule must die. Excuse me. Invasion of privacy such as reading private email tapping someone's phone, Grand Larceny, false imprisonment, child, rape and murder Europe of it all. If Iran cooperated be on accountable and incorporate now I'll one eight hundred. Do you like my new suit and tie? Well do you punk. This is a huge huge issue. and. We're talking about it. Nicole Sandler show on Nicole Sandler DOT com. Would help if I turn the microphone back on Yes that is book. Brittany Summers, and in case you're wondering on O'Brien was here with me on Monday we were both sort of out of our minds, a little bit having learned of the death of George Rodriguez with whom Brit. For years on the Neil Rogers show in fact, Georgia's who introduced me to Brit. And, and so he died on. Friday afternoon. And Yeah found out over the weekend. Brittany Summers is pretty putting together a massive memorial. We're GONNA do a broadcast on a weekend. It'll be pro, not this weekend, but next weekend. Either Saturday or Sunday do it here on my streams on my youtube channel on my audio stream at Nicole, Sandler Stream, dot, com, and and we'll let you know where else it'll be so yeah I know Phil Hendrie. who was worked with George. W IOT in Miami and others will be. Participating throughout the day so posted on that all right I guess I guess we should get to some of the news. All right, let's let's do it. Boy Short all right all right. Thank you, Bill, yeah! Okay. There's a lot of stuff all right all right all right bill. Thank you. Let me. Start with the Supreme Court because we got two more decisions today, there were five left the so that gives us three for tomorrow so. The first one. They gave us today what they were both having to do with religion in the Religion in the in the. Public Square something on the first one. The Supreme Court let's employers opt out of birth control coverage lovely and it was a seven two decision. The Supreme Court today upheld a trump administration regulation that let's employers with religious or moral objections limit women's access to birth control coverage under the affordable care act lovely, so as a consequence of this ruling about seventy to one hundred twenty six thousand women could lose contraceptive coverage from their employers. The vote was seventy two with of course justices. Ruth Bader GINSBURG and Sonia Sotomayor. Dissenting hold on I do have other I. my notes are all over the place on this one. Let me see. What I could find your the. Let's see it was this was. Actually, this was the second one they announced today. It, says the let's see the the case was a challenge to the two thousand seventeen rules issued by the trump administration that expanded the exemption from the affordable Care Act's breath control mandate. And the court let it hold on. I'm just blown away. The Supreme Court Lamar Retail. The in its seventy-two ruling sought to resolve a long-running legal battled previously vexed the justices how to strike the right balance between ensuring access to birth control and safeguarding religious freedom protections. But this explanation from Scotus blog, which is where I got this says the court's decision appears likely to revive debate over the culture war issue as the presidential election kicks into gear. Lovely? The other decision was. In a our lady of Guadalupe school versus Morrissey Baru and this decision was written by Alito. It was a seven to this time with Soda Myron Ginsburg, dissenting other just in backwards order. This was a case about whether courts could hear employment discrimination claims brought by teachers to teachers in Catholic elementary schools in California. or whether the teachers lawsuits are instead barred by the quote, ministerial exception, which bars ministers from suing churches and other institutions for employment discrimination, and the judges by a seven two vote decided that the answer is that the lawsuits are Bart. Here's the explanation it says although these teachers were not given the title of Minister, and have less religious training than the teacher. In another case in earlier case, involving the ministerial exception quote, we hold it there. Cases Fall within the same rule that dictated our decision in that other case Hosanna. Tabor the religious education and formation of students is the very reason for the existence of most private religious schools, and therefore the selection and supervision of the teachers upon whom the schools relied to do this work lie at the core of their mission. The sweeping result is. This this from the descent by. Sonia Sotomayor quote. This sweeping result is profoundly unfair. The court is not only wrong on the facts, but it's era also risks up ending anti discrimination protections for many employees of religious entities. She said one must hope that a decision deft enough to remold HOSANNA TABOR to fit. The result reached. Today reflects the courts capacity to cabin the consequences tomorrow, and she ends it by saying. I respectfully dissent. And that leaves three cases which we are told, they will hand down tomorrow morning at ten am so. It is. Yeah it's. Tomorrow we find out if Congress has a right and if the Manhattan District Attorney has a right to Donald Trump's financial records, including his tax returns. That's the one they're saving. Till the end there was another case still outstanding having to do with an forgive me for not having all the particular yet, but it has to do with. Indigenous Rights with with with an Indian reservation. And I promise by tomorrow I'll be up to date on it. But boy talk about. You know. Stretching out the ending and it certainly is all right. The other news story that I wanted to tell you about, and there's tons of news you can just go to. Nicole Sandler Dot Com and click on what's news to find out you know the rest of the news for today, but there was another story that broke since I. since I recorded. What's news this morning? And it has to do with Lieutenant Colonel Shandor Vin men remember him. He testified in the impeachment trial of Donald Trump, or was it during the inquiry think it was during the inquiry. An Alexander van men born in the Soviet Union. His parents brought he and his twin brother over from I. WanNa say Ukraine, but I could be. The former Soviet Union when they were just like three years old and Vin men worked in the NFC and well. Here's a little bit of his testimony while he was saying. He was reassuring his father. He was going to be okay. Here's here's He he said some of these words in his opening statement. This was He was asked by Congressman Maloney to repeat that part that ending of his opening statement and here's how it went. You still have your opening statement handy. I do. Read, the last paragraph for me again, not the one the very last one second last one. You read that one again for me. Accepting the American public deserves to hear it again. Star that's the one I think. My Dad would appreciate this one, too yeah. Dad. My sitting here today in the US capital and talking to our elected officials is proof that you made the right decision forty years ago to leave the Soviet Union come here to the United States of America in search of a better life for our family. Do not worry I'll be fine for the truth. Wow! You realize when you came forward out of sense of duty that you were putting yourself in direct opposition to the most powerful person. In the world. Do you realize that sir? I knew I was assuming a lot of risk and I'm short by their word. Don't war that phrase do not worry you dress to your dad. Was your data warrior? I did serve. It was a different military though. and. He would award eight if you were putting yourself up against the United States is that right? He deeply worried about it because in his context there was. It was the ultimate risk. And why do you have confidence that you can do that? And you tell your dad not to worry congressman because this is America. This is the country I've served defended. That all my brothers have served and here right matters here right matters here right matters. He said that was lieutenant. Colonel Alexander Vin. Men who today announced that he's retiring. He said all right. Citing a campaign of quote, bogeying intimidation and retaliation by Donald Trump after his impeachment testimony. Just reading from the New, York Times. The army officer, who had been attached to the National Security Council testified in the impeachment hearing that he was disturbed by trump's call with Ukrainian president volant Valetta. Mirror the Linski in which trump ask for an investigation of former vice president, Joe Biden and their son. Some government officials had recently expressed concern that the White House plan to veto vin promotion to colonel in retaliation for his role in the impeachment hearing, and actually we heard Tammy Duckworth put forth an amendment saying she's going to or put made a statement and said she's going to hold up every military promotion unless she gets into. That vin men's promotion will not be a flagged will not be held up and today. We learn that vitamin is retiring. Retiring we should all be ashamed. I just hope that when a new administration comes in that. They will reinstate vitamin and promote him as he should be promoted. This is sickening, but it just goes along with everything else from this administration. It's all sickening. It's all just sickening. All right one more very quick time out for our friends at the progressive voices network, and we'll be right back with Greg Mitchell and the beginning or the end question. I asked myself all the time. It sounds like a song lyric to, doesn't it? We'll be right back. All right so yla progressive voices in commercials will a little labor history in two and we'll be right back. I'm Rick Smith and this is Labor history and to. This Day in Labor history, the year was nineteen, thirty nine. That was the day. AFL President William Green called all affiliates to meet in Chicago, green sought to mobilize union leaders in a fight to restore prevailing wages on federal relief. Projects Building Tradesmen. Construction sites had started walking off the job in spontaneous strikes across the country three days earlier, the strike spread rapidly thirty six days quickly, turning into a nationwide walkout of over one hundred fifty thousand workers were outraged by provision in the latest Federal Relief Bill titled The would dramatic new terms established the one hundred and thirty hour rule essentially slashing wages by more than half it also called for a thirty day dismissal of all workers who had been on WPA rolls for eighteen months the AFL building trades. Department stated the act would quote destroy national wage standards established through fifty years of collective bargaining IB. W leader Daniel tracey added that forcing. Rage on federal relief. Workers would only a building contractors in private industry to do the same from Saint Louis to Rochester from Minneapolis to on picket lines were solid. Organizers work to build solidarity among unskilled WPA. Workers affected by the new starvation bill. Tens of thousands of strikers were fired in WPA ordered dismissals president. Roosevelt declared there could be no strikes against the federal. Federal Government Attorney General. Frank Murphy Former Michigan Governor during the flint. Sit down. Strike declared that striking against the government would build a fascist psychology. WPA administrators also threatened organizers with federal prosecution fines and jail time, but New York's building and Construction Trades Council leader Thomas Murray authorized a strike of thirty, two thousand. He avowed. This will be a strike to the finish. This is a huge huge issue. And we're talking about it. Though Nicole Sandler show Nicole Sandler DOT com. And we are back and I'm thrilled to be joined by our guest today. It's Greg Mitchell who's got a brand new book out called the beginning or the end. How Hollywood in America learned to stop worrying and love the bomb. There's a picture of it right up on the screen, so I don't have to actually hold up. Hey, greg thanks so much for joining us today very happy to be here. Thank you very much. It's my pleasure, so congratulations on the book I know it just released officially yesterday. And you had some really nice press including a lovely piece on at mother. Jones and Let's back up a second. The book is about a movie that frankly I had never heard of before and I was a little confused by the title before I opened the Book and started reading it 'cause the beginning or the end how Hollywood! America learned to stop worrying and love the bomb now. I'm a big fan of Dr. Strangelove and and that sort of. Well it it. It borrows a little bit from Dr Strangelove, or was it or how I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb. But this? This book is not about the strange love, which was a brilliant movie, but about a movie called the beginning or the end that was A. Big Budget Hollywood production. That was a major. Pardon the PUN bomb right. That's right, yes. Yes. Came from MGM in early, Nineteen. Forty seven And the book tells the tale of how it came to be and how it started out as a based on warnings from the scientists against the further development of the bomb making more powerful bombs, a nuclear arms race concerns about the use of the bomb against Japan actually in a letter from a Manhattan project. Scientists who was Donna reads. The actress Donna Routes High School Chemistry Teacher. He wrote her out of the blue and Hollywood and said you must. Get a movie made to stop this craziness from going forward and sure enough her. Her husband was a Hollywood agent, so he was able to sit down with the legendary MGM chief Louis B. Mayer. Signed off on the movie said it'd be the most important movie he ever made the first scripts then were. Very, much aligned with the scientist took that warning to heart, and then over the course of the next year after the intervention by the military and President Truman himself. The movie was transformed into pro bomb propaganda. And tried to settle this question forever of. The dangers of nuclear weapons and Of, and of course, we kind of seen what has happened since well. That's a mighty big question and I don't know that. We, we've fully answered the question, but I'm all right the movie I'm. I'm a interested in and it's a fascinating topic. I mean when I got the book. It's like wait. A minute is about. Is this about the the nuclear arms race is? It's about here. She met Nagasaki. Is that about a movie? But it's actually about all three, so the movie after we bombed Japan so horrifically on two occasions. To movie, Studios decided they were GonNa make a movie. The be all and end all movie about the bomb with that organic to the one that got made. It was mgm that you talk about, but you said also I think it was paramount. That was also having another script written that one by of all people Ayn rand that one never got made. Was this just organic that to studio said Ou we dropped two bombs. Let's let's make a movie about it. While this was seen perhaps accurately at the time as the most important development in human history now of years you know. We. We have to understand that the when the bomb was dropped on on Hiroshima, no one knew this even existed so on the same day that the bomb was used. The world also learned about the new energy atomic. Fission splitting the atom, and so on so forth so so the the people afterwards were legitimately concerned and worried about the future of the world as well they should be, but the official narrative of Russia came from the the White House in the military was at the use of the bomb against Japan was absolutely necessary. It ended the war. There were no other options and people. The vast majority of people accepted that they wanted to get on with the you know the post war era, and so this became kind of written in stone, and then here was this movie that threatens. Threatened that narrative, and also in that nineteen forty six that crucial your. Came John. Her sees famous a new. Yorker article about her ocean, which has been called by some people, the most important article in a magazine in the century. That to raise questions about the use of the bomb and future use and radiation something we were pooh-poohing at the time, so nineteen forty-six was a year of great threats to this official narrative, so the the book really follows in following this movie, which as you've said? Few people heard about even though it's shown on Turner Classic. Streaming you can see it. It exists Just in looking at this one movie, we can see how that official narrative was developed. Talent was threatened all the different arguments, and then how it was overcome. Thanks to Truman. In the Pentagon became written in stone and You know seventy five years later. We haven't at least in public opinion gone that far beyond it. No in fact, oh, so so look. Obviously I rarely can say this anymore, but it was a little before my time. So. Yeah, the, but still to this day as horrific as the results were I mean we've all seen the pictures from there. We all know what those what damage those bombs did. There are still people today who say well. We had to do it. We had no choice. Now Greg Mitchell. When when I first met you. We met on twitter some years ago. You were writing for the nation and I didn't realize your background on this subject. You're the former editor of nuclear. Times magazine I did not know that I did yeah, and you have a number of books and projects on this subject. So this is your. Area of expertise or one of them. Anyway, what do you do you think that that was a necessity that we had to? Drop these bombs on Japan back to end World War Two. Great historical debate and you know. Admittedly it's not exactly black and white. Their arguments on all sides tried to be respectful of all the different arguments, and there there are some there are a lot of good ones. A lot of evidence that can be interpreted in different ways, but I came after years of being sort of a little bit decided myself to feel that that the bomb should not have been used at that time. That Truman did have other alternatives. There were other options He could've taken another day another week another month. you know the the main argument is often that. We saved a million lives because of the prevented invasion, but an invasion was not even plans November and you know there was time to try other things rather than leave this legacy, not even putting aside the hundred and fifty, thousand, two hundred thousand Japanese civilians who died mainly women and children. even if you wanted to put those aside and I don't want to you still have this legacy of the use of the bomb that the bomb was used, and so we have sort of the hype, which is these bombs are terrible to be used and yet we use them. Yeah, and it's so important today you know people might say well. Who Do you know why shouldn't care about this movie? Why should we care that? The bomb was used to. We can't change it, but in fact we can care about it because. What's been been passed on to US largely by the media, which every every year now this is the seventy fifth anniversary. That's maybe why we're talking here. the. There will be a flood of of story soon. about the bomb, and if it's usually, you're in the media the vast majority will support you know the endorsed the use of the bomb. And, the danger with AD is at most people don't know is that we have still have a i. use policy as feeling. Wow, it is still official US policy to use. The bomb is a first strike. not in retaliation to a nuclear attack we. Failsafe or one of those things. But as a first strike and Against a conventional attack or even just a threat you know with these headlines today about North Korea again with North Korea. Alleged? Bomb facilities, and so on and so forth so. You know, and of course now we have a president. Trump and people sometimes joke about well. He's got the nuclear codes. y'All. Small thing, but he has the codes, and he has the policy first-strike policy and he has opinion polls. Are Recent opinion polls have shown that the forty to fifty percent of Americans. would endorse a first strike on CHR-, North Korea or Iran. If we are threatened. It's so you come back to the same. Argument that was made with Japan which was to save American lives. which you know, we try to out. Anytime we want. To end a war. End, the threat so. This movie from almost seventy five years ago. And the book I hope. encapsulates all this you know it's Kinda shows how we got there and shows the you know the arguments. Then that were brought to bear by Truman and the Pentagon to revise this movie even to Sri Shooting key scene with Truman. And getting the actor playing him fired interesting Is that You know it's the same thing that drives us today with the Solution Manera, the we, we must toe the line on the other necessity of using the bomb, and making bigger, bigger and more powerful bomb so I'd like to think the book. Kind of captures all that and just you know two hundred and eighty pages. Right but but one of the things. That's so fascinating about this is that? An independent movie studio was making this big budget Hollywood blockbuster as it was built to be. And, the administration gets wind of the story line and says wait a minute. We want to change that and they did. I mean thinking about like today. If anything like that could ever happen and I don well I guess it depends who's making. The movie was MGM sympathetic to Truman was was that they allowed them some creative control over this film. That was already in production. It went down a road over the course of a few months. mean the first crucial decision was made. They sat down with Truman in the Oval Office and pretty much gave him a script approval. Glad they did a con contract with General Leslie Groves, who was the head of the Manhattan project extremely right wing Macho, figure Trumpian, you might say a crate. Mom Contract with them, and gave him ten thousand dollars, which was a small fortune back then and script approval, so he, as I was able to finally after all these decades document by going to the motion, Picture Academy Library going through every script. was able to chart. Win and how these revisions were made. grows at memos with fifty changes. He wanted in one one fell swoop. And then it culminated in. The following October when they finally had to Washington screening and Truman's top aide attended was outraged about how his. Decision to use the bomb was pictured and they truman agreed driven saw the script, and they order to retake so GM. Easiest Pie along with. Word toward the. President and his press secretary rewrote the rewrote the script arts and script and MGM took every word film that exactly as it was dictated by the White House so. Shocking not after all this time. It kind of is, and they even replaced as you said the the actor who was originally originally playing Truman and there was already a directive that they can only shoot him from behind so so I mentioned at the onset that that there was an excerpt published in Mother Jones magazine. They also have a clip from the movie. which is the scene in the Oval Office where you see Truman from behind? I Guess Tha, Tha. I'm GONNA play this clip. It's only two and a half minutes. Hopefully I don't get. That is the scene they rewrote. This. Rewritten the rewritten seen all right so here we go. It's a clip from the beginning or the end. Charlie. I WanNa tell you our nation's top secret. It was remained just that top secret of course. We have developed the most fearful weapon ever forged by a man. And at comic bomb. Even the word is frightening. It's been tested and it works. It's a harnessing of the basic power of the universe in peace time, atomic energy could be used to bring about a golden age, such an age of prosperity, and well being the world has never known. In war. This same energy as destructive power, almost beyond the comprehension of. It's clear now. What the words prompt another destruction mean? Thank God we've got the bomb, not the Japanese. If, they had it, they'd surely use it on us. That's one argument for are using a challenge, but it's not the decisive argument. The whole thing is terrifying. You must spent many sleepless nights over it. I've consulted with Mr. Churchill with all my top military and naval advisers, I've talked for the civilian heads of our war effort, and all these advisers tell me the bomb will shorten the war by at least a year where we going to use it. As another question I had to think about. The army has selected several Japanese cities as prime military targets because of war industries, military installations troop concentrations of fortifications. We are going to shower all these places for ten days with leaflets, telling population to leave telling them what's coming? And we hope these warnings will save lives it should. and. If the bomb shortens the war, it will save many thousands of American lives. A year less of war. Charlie will mean life for three hundred thousand, maybe a half a million of America's finest youth. I don't do that, but it'll mean life for thousands of British of Russians of Chinese of Japanese. These were the decisive considerations in my consent. President of the United States. You could make no other decision. As President I could not. Oh, my so I have told the army to take the bomb to the Marianas and received the green light. To use it. Oh Boy That is. That's some pretty strong propaganda there. And so. I'm guessing that's why the movie didn't do very well at the box office was at all that kind of. Pacing was in that kind of preaching. Partly, but thanks to these revisions. The movie was delayed several months, and so, what was seen what was going to be a? You know a quick hit. A major movie, but get it out quickly after this incredibly Historic event, was delayed. A year and a quarter. So by that time, people were starting to turn the page, but you. The movie itself turned out to be to be pretty bad and even the people who signed with. The, we mentioned the Ayn rand. Sub, sub subplot in the book, which is quite lengthy in in a way about the competing will be, but the another subplot is how mgm had had to get the. Signed releases from all the famous scientists. Oppenheimer lead Baliles Lard. Enrico Fermi and so they made desperate attempts to get these and. Eventually all the scientists went along with it while mocking the movie mocking the scrutiny in private. Yet they went. It went along with it, so there wasn't really a profile of courage anywhere there. You might say but but that's. When the movie was released, it was accepted by the people who didn't see it as well. The fact that's it's considered one of the early examples of the Hollywood. docudrama right and and that was. Then as now I suppose. Seen as a factual, mainly factual presentation I. Mean we don't have time, but I could go through the scene. You just saw with fact by fact. And things that are made in it. but you know that's the way it went, and it turned out to be to be significant, even though it was not the. Not Number one at the box office right so Donna Reed was not in this film her her participation was only in getting her husband involved. Okay, so I was wondering where she came into play, so Greg Mitchell all right so the Ayn rand movie. They shelved that they never did anything with it. This one got made. It wasn't the blockbuster. It should have been, but you do again. Have a nod to. One, the best movies on the subject in my view anyway. Dr? Strangelove, which I haven't got through the whole book yet but I. Don't think you deal with that movie in this book. Do just in the title. In the epilogue. Movies? I mean the the I. Guess the main, and I have to say that maybe I was stated to do this book because. When I was a teenager, my favorite movie was Dr Strangelove I still considered Navy my all time favorite movie, maybe the greatest movie of the Post War era so I kind of feel like I was spaded to do this, but The the main point that they make at the end of the book is that. For some reason and probably pretty clear, what the reason is seventy five years. Hollywood is a made three movies about the actual use of the bomb making use of the bomb. This movie Mgm made another movie five years later by the pilot, Paul Tibbets, and then not until nineteen ninety when. Roland Joffe made that man and little boy. Some people will remember right. Those are the only three movies out of Hollywood, and seventy five years now there have been many movies Dr Strangelove like failed safe, you can go down the list, wargame and so forth. That have touched on or been. You know really kind of brilliant. treatments of nuclear fear. You know of nuclear threat what for some reason Hollywood will not tackle the origin story or the original sin of you if you will. And it's because it's just. It's tough subject for Americans. You know like we did it. You know we did it. We kind of covered it up we defended it to this day seventy five years later, and it's not like the Nazis kind of easy to make movies about the Nazis because they. They weren't us, and actually we. We then defeated them. But you know Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Were our at our hand. Now there's great debate over whether of maybe it was acceptable but you know it was at our hand and raises a all those questions. It's very one of the most revealing things about the movie. Briefly is simply that. They in the scripts. As they were developed, they eliminated every single reference to Nagasaki Real, so you can watch this movie and you'd never know. There was a second bomb, and of course the reason is is that. Even many many people who support the Russian decision feel that Nagasaki was a totally unnecessary. Even a war crime you know in Nagasaki is sometimes referred to as a war crime and I would endorse that after you know my study and. so forth so So it's kind of obvious why they WANNA. CUT It out, but yet there it was. It was the nearly scripts to it was You know a good part of the movie and as the months went on. You know it got jettisoned land I think. You know you could just make that one. Make that one statement and tell a lot about the what the book is about I. Suppose What what the movie ended up being well, it's a it's a fascinating take on a story a subject that we've talked about for seventy five years now to bring cinema into it and how the government? Coerce the filmmakers to try to you know, propagandize it I, think is fascinating, because allegedly. We don't have propaganda here which. Sorry can't say that straight face, but Greg Mitchell. In addition to this the new the new book, of course just out yesterday, the beginning or the end how Hollywood in America learned to stop worrying and love the bomb. You wrote two other books on the subject. You have with Robert Jay Lifton Hiroshima in America and the second book atomic up so as we are in the seventy fifth year. What what do you want people to take away from the experience? What do you want them to think seventy five years later about what? We did this original sin if you will. Well. There's a lot a lot that could be said, but as I said earlier, I think if you WanNa take an activist view. What can we do now and I guess it would be to right talk. Speak out whatever you can there there will be demonstrations coming up for August six and August nine Whatever can be done to? Resend this I use policy? It's debated by the experts year. There's always there sometimes things introduced in Congress. So Make this story about today and this very very dangerous precedent we set. In nineteen forty-five, which as long as we continue to endorse it, it lays the groundwork for use again. Because same arguments can be can be made today absolutely and. You did say. Dr Strangelove one of your favorite films. Would you recommend people then go watch that after reading your book because just to give you a little. I don't know different perspective on things well I. Suppose. Maybe it's not a different perspective. It's sort of what one thing leads to the next. You know and I. Don't know whether trump is more of more, general, Jack, the, ripper or more doctor strange well. It's it's. It's kind of humorous. People find general ripper. You know so over the edge and that could never happen today. When in fact. Jenna ripper had to take over that base and mess with the security codes where we have a president who appears to be just as nutty a WHO has the nuclear codes and the grief case next to him every day. Maybe. It's not so funny now. Is kind of hysterical right dark humor, but we're. We're living in a dark humor UH era that's. Maybe, not so funny. No and I'll repeat what I said so many times that nobody if you wrote the script of what we're going through today, Donald Trump becomes president has the nuclear codes. We have a an addition to everything else. That's gone on in the last three and a half years then we come down with global pandemic of covid nineteen, and we're all walking around wearing face masks and the press except for the president. You couldn't get a movie like that made. Because it was, it would be too far out of the realm of. Conceivable possibilities and yet here we are so I guess they say the truth is stranger than Fiction Anyway Greg Mitchell. The book is now out the beginning or the end, and maybe you'll want to go back and watch this movie I guess with the streaming everything anything is possible. Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to talk with you. We've talked online for years. I don't think we've never done this before so I really appreciate you coming on today very happy to be here. Thanks all right. You take care. Bye. All right and with that we're done. We'll see tomorrow it's. Will be here and the Supreme Court. Who? Keep your fingers crossed.