How many particles has the Large Hadron Collider discovered?
This podcast is supported by the showtime documentary theories. Ufo a four part exploration confronting the most enigmatic question of all. Why do we believe what we believe. From the legendary j.j abrams ufo explores the most unbelievable sightings of our time featuring insiders behind the pentagon's secret ufo program confirmed by the new york times. Get an in depth. Look at explosive. First person testimonies in amazing footage venture closer to the truth of the world's most mysterious phenomenon all episodes of ufo are now streaming only on showtime. We talk a lot about the excitement of making new scientific discoveries. We couldn't make those discoveries without scientific data and the network you use to capture store and transmit the data can make the difference between learning a deep secret about the origins of the universe or not. That's why the world's leading institutions trust juniper networks junior provides essential reliability from data centers to wi fi driven by a i learn more about universe work with the world's leading research institutions at juniper dot net. I've got one word for you getaway. Just imagine the sun the beach an ice cold drink in your hand with the american airlines advantage mile up card from city. You can go from daydreaming two sunbathing by earning miles on everything you buy. It's the card that turns everyday purchases into advantage miles like two times miles at grocery stores. Plus you can even earn a special bonus miles offer after qualifying purchases head to city dot com slash mile up today to apply for the american airlines advantage mile up card and get closer to that getaway. Hey daniel how much does it cost to discover a new particle while. I'm sorry to say that like everything else. The prices seem to be going up and up. Oh you mean like with inflation. I think there's more than that going on. I mean the electron was really cheap to discover in the eighteen hundreds but then the top corps probably cost a billion dollars or so a billion dollars to discover one particle a billion dollars cheap. These days the higgs bows on probably cost more than ten billion dollars and billion. That's like super fancy. Caviar probably tastes just as bad. Daniel camera isn't about the flavor about the glamour her true by particle physics. It's all ballgowns tuxedos in the control room. Sern is why cost ten billion dollars. It's the dress code. It's killing at least you have a dress code. I thought were boxer shorts and tee shirts. It's a t shirt with a tuxedo. Printed on it. I am for him. Cartoonist and creator of phd comics. I'm daniel i may particle physicist. Who's never discovered a new particle yet. Well technically down. Don't you discover new particles off. I'm like you know this oxygen molecule breathing right now. Is this technically to me. That's true each individual particle has its own wonderful spirit and personality but we're more interested in new types of particles new things that nobody in the world has ever seen before things can blow our minds and teaches something new about the universe but welcome to this new type of podcast daniel and jorges explained the universe april of iheartradio in which we sort through all the amazing and crazy stuff in his universe stuff made of oxygen the stuff made of carbon up made of nitrogen in the stuff made of things. We don't even yet understand the rest of the whatever it's made out of. We tackle it. We asked the big questions and we try to explain all of it to you because there is a lot of stuff in the universe actually Maybe an infinite amount of stuff right. There might be an infinite number of particles in there might even be an infinite number of kinds of particles. We have no idea. We're looking at an ice cube and we don't know if it's the whole cube or just the tip of the iceberg. That's right everything is made out of steph and we are made out of stuff and we are also constantly trying to discover what this stuff is made out of in how it works and how it's put together and what are the rules that tell this stuff what it can and cannot do if feels like if we could pull apart everything in the universe into its tiniest little bits and understand those rules we will have revealed something true something fundamental something deep in the source code of the universe like looking at those rules an understanding that basic set of particles would finally tell us how the universe is really put together. I guess it's pretty amazing that you know there's all this stuff in the universe and us little humans on this little rock floating in space. Figure it out that this stuff has kind of rules and types of stuff to it right like it's not just random and there's only a certain number of kinds of stuff out there and that kind of stuff has certain rules about how it can put together and how it interacts with itself. And the incredible thing is that there's a pretty small number of particles like the particles that make me and you just really three of them is the up cork the downcourt and the electron. But you can put those particles together in so many different ways to get an incredible variety of things so as you look at the universe and you see all these weird things you know from bananas to comments to planets to neutron stars. You know that all of those things are made of the same basic particles just put together in different ways and it sort of incredible like philosophically that the universe even works that way that you would take all this incredible complexity and boil it down to relative simplicity at the lowest level. Even caviar daniel. Caviar made out of regular particles are really expensive. It tastes like it's made out of some other weird kind of gross particles. I take it. You're not a fan of the caviar fan of tiny little salty. Fish eggs excluding my mouth. Now you don't even really understand how that's the thing. Maybe you haven't bought the expensive kind eight only had the kind you only had the electrons of. I should just keep spending more money on caviar. Until i like it. It's all about the cracker like if you have the right cracker you can put anything on a caviar. Eggs bows doesn't matter the other right cracker. It's all good and he would be kind of troublesome with an it. I don't know it might be salty. Might be delicious would cost a lot of money. Trump. that's right at ten billion dollars per particle. I don't think i could even taste it. But yeah we are all made out of stuff and that stuff in one sense. Feels like it's made a small number of kinds of stuff you know like you said quirks and electrons but at the same time. It seems like the universe is full of all kinds of particles in possibly as you said maybe an infinite number of different kinds of particles. Yeah we sort of took a left turn there at some point in history like for a long time we were taking this stuff around us and we were figuring out that it was made simpler set of stuff. All the crazy stuff in the universe is made out of elements and then it turns out. Those elements are just made out of protons and neutrons electrons. Awhile look a protons and neutrons are made out of cork so we were getting simpler and simpler and simpler but then at some point we discovered a bunch of other weird stuff other weird particles that you don't need to make up ordinary matter things we've talked about in the podcast like me mianzi and towels and other kinds of quirks. And it's sort of puzzling. Like why those particles exist you know. Need them to make bananas. So why do they exist in the universe but if we systematically discover all of them we might get some sort of like glimpse at the larger pattern figure out what is really going on in the universe. Yeah it's kind of humbling. I guess to think that you know. We are basically masters of our. We think we're masters of our universe but really we're just made out of like a small corner of the particle table and even matter and even stuff is just a small part of the or the whole universe right. Most of the universe is energy. Yeah that's true. Huge fraction of the universe is just energy and we are made out of the lightest stuff like all these. Other heavy particles. They don't last very long and they fall apart really quickly. They decay into lighter and lighter particles and the reason the electron lives forever. While the doesn't is the electron is the latest thing can turn into anything lighter whereas the new on indicate into the electron so everything is made out of these lightest particles. It's sort of like if everything was just made out of hydrogen or hydrogen helium instead we're made out of a much more complex said of stuff and so in the same way for particles we wanna understand like what are those other heavier particles in. What can they do would be made out of helium and we all float around right if everything else was made at a hydrogen would just fall to the bottom. I'm actually on the all helium diet right now. I'm trying to those it works. Just keep inflating this balloon. And i keep. Losing weight is amazing. The he'll diet exactly if i get a big enough balloon. Be literally weightless. Your voice will be really high. Paid podcast would be a totally different experience. Alvin and the chipmunks present the universe daniel and the chipmunks but you know we are sort of asking this question all the time. What kinds of particles are out there. And what kinds of particles can exist and do exist. what are they for. And so scientists are hard working and one of the biggest to do that to search for new particles is a place at you or work at right. That's right at the large. Hey john collider which is not just one of the biggest places to do particle physics. It's like one of the biggest decides experiments ever in terms of money spent and like actual physical size is an incredible accomplishment. Sort of like the golden gate bridge of particle physics standard. The golden gate bridge. Sometimes i'm like. Wow look what humanity can accomplish when we all work together and the large collider's similar to that an incredible feat not just visits but also of engineering and organization and also politics all these different countries from all over. The world came together to build this incredible device helping us peer into the very very core of matter experiment. I thought experiment was caviar daniel lake. How much can you get people to pay for something salty and crunchy. Oh you're thinking of the large. Caviar collider i think which is still being constructed somewhere in russia. Yeah the large. The other e. c. Yeah clyde money fish eggs to get new kinds of prophets. Llc is the science experiment ever and also one of the most expensive. You said earlier that it caused that about ten billion dollars just to find the higgs bozon but the lic is a larger project than that right like. It's looking for other things and it costs a lot. More than ten billion dollars at ten billion dollars is about the cost of the project. It depends a little bit exactly how you do the accounting but you know cost like a billion dollars to build the tunnel in a couple of billion dollars to make those magnets and then billions more to build the detectors natural beam pipe and all that stuff so altogether. The whole project is a little bit more than ten billion dollars. And you're right. While many people think about the higgs bozos when they think about the large collider much broader science experiment. We were hoping when we turn this thing on not justifying. The higgs bows on though. We're happy to have done so but also find all sorts of other crazy stuff that might have been out there because remember. These experiments are like exploration. We don't know what we're gonna find until we turn the machine on. That's why we build it and so it's always a bit of a gamble. Well i think they higgs bows. I'm sort of put it on the map right. Like i feel like probably very few people had heard of the alesi before the big discovery of the hick booze on about ten years ago. That's right that's what it made it onto the list of particle physics experiments before that it wasn't even getting invited to those caveat parties. Is there an patty only went up to about well. You know there are bragging rights for who has the most powerful collider in the world and for a long time. The americans dominated it and then the europeans took over in the nineties. And the americans dole lead back in the early two thousands and now the europeans have had it for a while. And you know it's not just enough to have the most powerful collided in the world. You have to find something new. You have to make a big discovery that leads to nobel prize. And so you're right. That seeing the higgs bozen really put the elliott. See on the map. That's what i meant. Daniel d. lists like the discovery lists containing. Yeah but anyways. I guess the big question is besides the lacey. What else has the large hadron collider discovered like I know you set out to find a lot of different particles and the big one was. The hicks bows on. But i bet people don't know that the llc is looking and has discovered a lot more particles than that. Yeah we do lots of really interesting physics with lt. It's not just for the higgs. Bows on the on the podcast. We'll be asking the question. How many particles has a large hadron collider discovered covered. I think probably a lot of a lot of people. Maybe get confused. They probably associated age in la c. With the higgs bows on the commercial three. Go the long expose on commercial. Can't skip this ad. What's going on. Click click click click at the lafayette commercial. Because you know. If i was the hicks boils on and i wanted to make is blast has been a big part of that right. Yeah that's true. They'll it has been a good part of the hague's bows on marketing campaign. Who is hiding for fifty years while we were trying to look for but finally it allowed itself to be discovered in two thousand twelve. Says you'll be wondering how many people out there i had thought about what other particles alesi has discovered so daniel went out their into the wild with the internet to ask how many particles has the la see discovered in if you are a denizen of the wiles of the internet. And you would mind me knocking on your virtual door to ask you physics questions that you haven't prepared for. Please write to us two questions at daniel in. Hey dot com. We want to hear from you and we think you'll have fun. The always start with a knock. Knock joke physics. I didn't but now. I will love to brainstorm all right. Well here's what people had to say. I know of only one particle that the lychee has discovered which is the hicks bows on. But i cannot imagine that's the only one it has discovered ever would be quite an expensive machines. Whose would only have discovered his one particle. But maybe that's actually the case. So my answer. She is only one. I don't know the number but For sure needs to be more in liked to be more. I think it's time to bill to a new a bigger particle collider. Hopefully here in news. Lhc must be the large hadron. Aligarh hadras a particle in your colliding together. So maybe you'd smashing it up into smaller particles. I have no idea maybe three. Maybe seven i think. Lhc has discovered only one particle. That'd be the higgs bows on. I hope i'm not terribly off. I'm going to guess that the has may be discovered seven new particles another most or the most recent particle that i know off that was discovered the alleged see is the higgs in. I think twenty twelve. So i would say the number of new particles that has discovered is one herreid. There's a broad range of some people say one that you've only had one hit wonder the alesi and some people of a certain number like maybe seven or a few couple had seven. I wonder where that number came on. No but i think if you just ask people to pick them between one and ten similar fifty percent of them seven so i think it's definitely by their. Yeah wow like. We have an internal guy. yeah exactly we are bad random number generators. But there's some fun answers here. Some people give the large collider credit for discovering the top corps that was actually discovered by the fermilab tevatron of the previous record holder. The highest energy collider in nineteen ninety-five. Right the other dealers exactly. And i do like the person who supports building a new bigger collider here in the united states. Thank you very much right to your congressperson or hey cut a check for twenty billion dollars tank could happen right like is no unlike basis. Suddenly instead of going to space to discover a new park goal they could totally make that happen While that's true. I never even thought about emailing. Jeff bezos and asking him to spend twenty billion dollars on a particle collider. But doing that just as soon as we're finished here probably just just pocket and pull out a chain but you're right. The larger point is that the only thing preventing us from building a bigger collider discovering more particles is money like we know how to do. It is just kind of expensive because you had to dig these big tunnels and pay for really fancy magnets. The bend the particles around in a circle but the only limitation is money which is understandable. These things are expensive. Sometimes it's frustrating though because it feels like we could just be buying knowledge about the universe like we just lay out some cash. Boom the universe will reveal some secrets to us. I think the question is. Why does the universe charged so much like. Why can't the universities gave us these things for free like. Is it trying to sell a caviar. It's maybe overpricing little three. Haven't like another universe. We can maybe get a competitive bid on and we should negotiate with the universe. I no. I think we treat these things with value because we pay more for them right like if you buy expensive shoes then you're gonna think they're better shoes. And so we think the higgs those on is super important because we spent so much on it. Each is admitted that you easing the caviar. Don't overvalue physics knowledge but you also talked on the podcast about physics discoveries made with very cheap materials like the whole two-dimensional material. That's something somebody's using. Literally scotch tape and a pencil so you can totally discover things using five dollars worth of materials. But something's do cost billions even price-gouging humanity. Best right we only spent ten bucks on collided. The rest were spending caviar and ballgowns and t shirts would see those printing on them. But i guess it does cost a lot of money. I know it's expensive. And maybe so maybe step is through this like what's going on at the see. How does it work and why does it requires so much infrastructure to make discoveries. Yeah so the basic idea. The large collider like the reason to the large collider is a window into the universe. The whole strategy for using it to discover new particles is to rely on einstein's famous equation e. equals m. c. Squared where e is energy and m. is mass and the goal is that we are looking for particles with a lot of mass particles that we see around us electronics and quirks. These are the lowest mass particles as we talked about before. they're the stable ones. It's like the bottom rung of a ladder. Everything sort of shakes down to the bottom rung on the ladder. The way like boulders tend to roll downhill and settle in the bottom of a valley. But we're interested in what the other rungs of the ladder are. Are there heavier particles out there. What are the heaviest particles and we are limited in seeing those by the energy we can use to create them so eagles. Mc squared means if you wanna create a particle with mass m. You need to put in as much energy as mc squared to create it. So what we do with. A large hadron collider smash particles together very low mass particles like protons with a huge amount of energy so we can turn that energy into the mass of some new kind of particle right. I guess what's interesting is that you're trying to make these particles that you're you're trying to discover particles that are out there and you're doing that by trying to make them like you're not like breaking things apart and seen what's there you really trying to create conditions where they pop out of the vacuum out of nothingness it's alchemy. We are turning one kind of matter like normal everyday. Protons into something new. He's not like we're taking the protons apart and looking for weird things in them. Sometimes these weird particles are called sub atomic. Which is a little confusing because it implies that they're like inside the atom but they're not you can smash protons together make something totally new which is not like a combination of the bits of the proton and the reason you can do that is that you turn the protons into pure energy and then back from energy into a new kind of mass. So as you say we're making something new so we're discovering it not in the sense that like it's sitting there waiting for us to find it it sitting there on the list of possibilities waiting for us to bring the ingredients which is energy around so that nature can make it for us right. Take your discovering it in the sense of like going to a new restaurant taking the menu and then like discovering new. That could be made for you. That's right we're like if we have enough money in our wallet than we can afford this really expensive caviar right and so we are pouring energy decline because it allows us to look deeper deeper onto nature's menu so we can see what particles be made. The amazing thing about the particle collider is that. It's quantum mechanical which means that when you smash these particles together. You don't know what's going to happen. You can predict the kinds of things that might happen but for giving collision. You have no idea what might happen. Is like a list of possibilities. The cool thing though is that if you do it often enough eventually you'll see everything on that list of possibilities so you're exploring this menu of possibilities what nature might do just by doing the fain collision over and over and over again right. I did that sometimes. I just go to a restaurant. And i ordered randomly from their many over and over and over and over and eventually you try on the menu and also. That's exactly what we're doing here. We're just going to the restaurant with our eyes closed putting her fingers in the menu. And that's our strategy for ordering everything you're going to the cosmic diner and just putting your finger anywhere on it. We knew what was on the list already. We look for more intelligently you know we could design experiments they put in exactly the right amount of energy to make that particle we know is already there. We can do that kind of thing. But if you don't know what is there then you have to sort of poke around blindly hoping something new appears when you put your finger on it hoping to get a good all right. Well let's get into how you actually see sparkles at the large hadron collider and let's get into what other particles they have found but first let's take a quick break. It's crazy how much we have to pay for outdated impersonal healthcare and even crazier that we all just accepted. It's time to face facts. Healthcare is backwards. 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Ufo a four part exploration confronting the most enigmatic question of all. Why do we believe what we believe. From the legendary j.j abrams ufo explores the most unbelievable sightings of our time featuring insiders behind the pentagon's secret ufo program confirmed by the new york times. Get an indepth look at explosive. First person testimonies and amazing footage venture closer to the truth of the world's most mysterious phenomenon all episodes of ufo are now streaming only on showtime lately. I've been itching for a getaway chance to unplug rest. Relax if you feel the same than listen up. You can go from daydreaming. Two sunbathing with an american airlines advantage mile up card from city with it you can earn advantage miles on everything you buy. You'll also earn two times. Miles at grocery stores and on american airlines purchases miles that can be redeemed for flights hotels. And so much more. Plus you can even earn ten thousand advantage. Bonus miles and a fifty dollars statement credit after qualifying purchases. Book me a one way ticket to a beach chair please. If you're looking to get closer to that next getaway head to city dot com slash mile today to apply for the american airlines advantage mile up card that city dot com slash m. i l. e. Up we're talking about. What else has a large hadron collider. llc discover and daniel technically this is not a sponsor podcast episode right. We're not being paid by the here. I'm not a shield for big science. I am but i'm not getting paid to do well. Technically you're paying the to your work right. That's how it works. The collaboration and scientists have to like pay into it to use facility and to get access to the data. Yeah i'm not paying personally out of like my kids. Piggy-bank we're using government research funds and so it's the us government just like it's the german government and the italian government and the british government. All these governments are paying to support his international facility for scientists to us and so in the end. It's all of us all taxpayer. Money's though it's me and you and everybody down the street chipping in a few cents so we can learn something new about the universe right well and then technically basis is chickening more than we are so i think he pays zero taxes. Actually you're paying more than he is. I think he pays for anybody's idea. I think he's paying more taxes than i ever will. But we're talking about How the works and so you slash all known particles like protons together and out of that ball of energy that gets made in that collision new things. Come out and you're doing that over and over and over trying to find what else the universe can make and what else will pop out as right. We sift through all these collisions looking for something new something. That's not what we've seen before. We're very familiar with the old particles we've been doing this for decades. As we're looking for is an anomaly. Something surprising something. Different a new kind of thing. That hasn't been seen before right. Would you be surprised if like a cow like appeared out of your liar. We often use the example of pink. Elephants like return. Turn on what's come out. It could be pink elephants. It could be the higgs bows on. It could be nothing. You really don't know you've thought about this large mammal appearance just in case and of course you know you have to balance the charge and so you would have a pink elephant in an anti pink. Elephant created together. Ooh like a great elephant would be the opposite of pink l. a. a gray mammoth. Maybe i dunno. Maybe blue ant a blue and ian. We'll have to develop a mammoth collider to investigate that. One they touch each other. It's bad news. It's bad news to then new collide these and every once in a while new particles come out but they don't last very long right. You're looking for things that don't just pop out and sit there on your counter the disappear or changing to other things quickly. that's right. We are creating high energy density. Were pushing things up the ladder and the exists very briefly and they fall apart back into low mass stable particles the kinds of things that you and i are made out of and you know this is just what the universe does you gather bench energy together. It likes to spread it out so we create these new heavy particles top cork or a higgs boson. They last in that state we know they exist. But they're only there for like ten minus twenty seconds. It's like the briefest moment in the sun before the decay back into lighter stuff bryan because often you don't even detect particles you're looking for like the higgs bulletin and he had a detector that detected the hicks bows on. It's like you detect the things that the higgs bows on the case into then you piece it back like oh this must have been the hicks. Bassem that existed there in the middle for ten to the minus. Twenty seconds bathrobe technically. We've never seen a higgs bozen. i mean they. Last so briefly we have no detector capable of seeing it directly. All we can do is see what it turns into as you say. It's like coming to a street corner and seeing the remnants of a car accident and figuring out what must have happened but not actually seeing the collision itself as in the case of the hague's bows on. For example the higgs likes to turn into a pair of photons or a pair of bottom corks and those photons bottom corks have particular configurations and energy to tell us that they must have come from a higgs on so we can actually be sure for any given collision what it came from but we can make statistical arguments say all this one is more likely to be from higgs than from something else that would also give you the same sort of signature in our detectors and so that's what you do. You're colliding protons hoping to get new particles and to the question we started off with what has the nace discovered in those collisions. Now we know the big one was the his bozon which was discovered almost ten years ago. So tell us about that discovery and like sort of lid. The specifics of how it was well. Yes so the heat goes on is something we suspected was there. We looked at the patterns of all the particles we said. These just doesn't make sense. And a guy named peter higgs realized that it would make much more sense like it. Mathematically clicked together beautifully if there was another particle. Like if you have a jigsaw puzzle and there's a piece missing you look at it. You can see the shape you're like there must be one. Is you under under the table looking for that particular piece. It's much easier to find peace if you know what you're looking for and you suspect that exists so we already had the idea that the bows on might exist and how it would be created and what it would look like in our detector and we have a whole podcast episode about the journey to find the higgs so long saga lots of drama. Lots of politics but we ended up finding it. The large hadron collider in exactly that way that we talked about turns into two photons so the higgs bows on. Is this little particle. Decays in this complicated way that ends up giving two photons one in one direction and one in the other direction and we surround these collisions with all sorts of layers of detectors. Tell us what came out of those collisions. So we saw a lot of these events with two photons one foot on one way and the other photon going the other direction. When you add up their energy energy those two photons it comes up to a certain number. And that's the mass of the higgs bozen. And so we saw a lot of these particular kinds of collisions that led to this pattern of photons at all added up to the same number for the mass of the higgs and we thought that must be it right. It's like you saw the footprint of the higgs boson in these two photons right yeah exactly. We can't see the higgs itself breaks. I think that's one thing that's interesting about. This is that kind of have to have an idea of what you're looking for right. You can just turn this on and then see what happens because there's so much stuff coming out and it's all probabilistic so you kind of need to know what you're looking for you need to know about what size of footprint you're looking for or why would the footprint look like sort of in other to actually discover these footprints. You just put your finger on a really interesting of hotheaded debate in the field right now like a lot of people think that you're right the you need to know what you're looking for because these signals are subtle and you can't see things directly so you need to know how to look for things to anticipate them and discover them and that's probably true for really subtle signals like the higgs bows on. If we didn't know to look for the he goes on. We might not have seen it because in the end the signal is kind of subtle exactly little bump his other ways to make the same signature that we see for the higgs but other people i e me and some folks i work with think it might be possible to discover something. We don't anticipate that. Not knowing without their doesn't mean that we can't see it. We need to be sort of more clever about how to look for things to be ready for surprises. But we think that using some new techniques from like machine learning and anomaly detection it might be possible to figure out if there's something new in our data even if we don't know exactly what to look for but you're right it's more difficult and they would need to be a more obvious signal. But guess what. I mean as you sort of need to know even for something where you're detecting anomalies. You need to know what's hormonal so that you can tell. What's an anomaly. These need to have sort of an idea of what you might discover or at least it have like a good picture and then you can tell if something is off of that or different than that. Yes it's all about understanding with the current theory predicts so we can find deviations from it. And that's what was exciting for example about those g minus two experiments. That recently done at fermilab is had a really detailed prediction for what they expected to see you in the mu on wobbled around in a circle and then they saw something different than what it is. And they don't need to know what it is but they know they see something different which requires some new kind of particle. So that's an example of how you might see that there is something out there new to discover without knowing exactly what it is seeing a deviation from what you expect and so that was the higgs bows on. That was a huge deal on while ago and because it is such a fundamental particle in our model of particle physics right like it's the particle that sort of explains the masses of the particles. And it's sort of in a way the whole universe together. Yeah absolutely even more deeply important than that. It completes his longer project bringing together electricity and magnetism and the weak force. James maxwell unified electricity and magnetism. More than one hundred years ago. And then in the sixties somebody else brought together the weak force into a single force the electro weak force and it's all beautiful mathematical but didn't really work because it was missing a piece higgs bows on. Was that piece. So finding that tells us not just how particles get their math but also that the weak force and electromagnetism are just two sides of the same coin. It's really a incredible triumph. That's like over a hundred years of theoretical progress. Yeah it's pretty good. That's what i told the higgs all the time. I tell you complete me. So that's maybe the last fundamental particle that humans have discovered right. I don't think we've found other fundamental particles in there or at at the large hadron collider or anywhere right and we have been looking. We have been looking and we had high hopes. But you're right we haven't found anything else you know. When we turned on the large hadron collider we were able to explore new energy. Ranges like the previous collider went up to two trillion electron-volts. That's like two thousand times. The energy inside the mass of proton and the large. Hey john collider goes up to fourteen tara electron-volts so like it's seven times as much energy as the old collider and that means it's like seven times the territory seven times the new menus going and out and you get like the secret secret secret secret menu. That's really exciting. From like an exploration point of view it's like simultaneously landing on seven new earth like planets and seeing if there's life on there's a huge territory that's that nobody explored before so the possibilities were huge. We could have seen nothing could be. There's just nothing there because the only the higgs bows on or we could have seen like a crazy number of particles fly out of the machine. Probably not pink elephants but the possibility was that we could have seen dozens of new particles that would tell us all sorts of crazy stories about the universe. unfortunately we didn't always saw in terms of fundamental particles was the higgs bows on. It's almost like you've got a bigger table in a way not just adds to the bigger many. But it's like you got a bigger table and you told the universe all right you know surprise me and it just kinda brought more of the same thing we went to the all you can eat buffet and it just kept serving mac and cheese even get a higgs animal style you know. Maybe we made a mistake. We filled on bread or something. I don't know what the problem was. But we were hoping to find gravitons. There's no secret seed who crab buffet table in the bathroom. Thing if it is. It's still a secret because we haven't found it. We had lots of ideas. Also what we might have seen. You know we might have seen gravitons. We don't understand how gravity works is a quantum theory in some people. Think that every time you feel gravity. It's because you're passing little quantum particles back and forth called gravitons. And if that is true there was a chance we could have seen those. They'll eat c. And we looked for them but didn't see them and there are lots of other really fun. Theory super symmetry and heavier corks and all sorts of weird new left leptons. There's no shortage of ideas coming from the theoretical community about what we might have seen but of course we didn't see any of those either right you had to do ideas about how the universe might work. You know given all the theory and so you needed some experimental confirmation to make those theories can solid right like to show that super symmetry was right or gravitational physics was right you needed to find sort of weird new particles in in that space that we're looking for but you didn't but we didn't is just like with the higgs bows on these things. Come from theoretical motivation. People looking at the theory and saying you know this would make more sense. We changed it in this way. Or we added this piece and then experimentalist go out and look for and say well is it. There is your idea corresponding to the real structures of the universe or is it just sort of like a nice pretty bit of math in your head because there's an important difference right we're not just interested in exploring the insides of our head. We wanna know where the structures of the actual universe are to do that. Need to do these experiments but our job is not just to go off and check the box on theoretical ideas. I think we're also capable of discovering unanticipated stuff of finding weird new stuff out there that know theorist has predicted that nobody anticipated that blows up all of our ideas about the universe. That hasn't happened either. But i hold out hope. Yeah you always talked about scenario where you do an experiment that you look at the data and then you see something in your leg who ordered that like which many that one come from. Yes and that's happened in history right like who ordered. That is a literal thing. Somebody said when they saw that the on had been discovered because nobody expected them. You on to be there. It's not something we thought might be on. The menu is just something that god delivered. And we're like I didn't order. This is just sitting here in front of me until i fantasize about that. You know sort of a scientific way like no my dream scenario is finding something weird that everybody scratches their head over. Because you and i talk about on the podcast all the time how we know there are basic things about the universe. We don't understand and what we need is a clue something that points us in the right direction to think about new ideas and so it totally weird new anticipated discovery would be a great clue in that direction cool. Well we are standing by for you to discover a new fundamental particles or to confirm fundamental new theories. But in the meantime the lic has been busy the it has made a lot of discoveries. And maybe it's found more parcels in most people. think so. let's get into that but first let's take another quick break looking for guidance and variety from world class experts in your fitness and wellness journey. Find it with active the fitness app. That's right for you and your lifestyle. No matter where you are in your fitness journey. 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For prospectus containing this information redick carefully before investing invesco distributors inc. We're talking about the llc and ordering off of the universe menu at the what the cosmic diner. I think that is an actual diner. Probably somewhere in america. They probably don't serve caviar though. They sell higgs bozon animals so we made the the big bows on discovery. And we don't have any sort of thing that fundamental yet since then but the nec has been busy discovering more particles right actually a surprisingly law number of new particles. Mets right the higgs bows on is like the glamour front person of the particle discoveries. But we've been hard at work and we found all sorts of crazy stuff out there they. You probably haven't even heard of unless you would listen to his podcast right. that's right. We have talked about a couple of these discoveries on the podcast and so those who follow it might not be surprised but honestly i was even surprised when i counted up all discoveries. The number sort of shocked me. How many particles has the fifty-nine more particles than just the higgs bows on low fifty nine fifty nine. It's a lot of particles. There are that many particles there. Aren't that many particles exactly because there's other ways to discover particles than finding new fundamental particles. We can find new ways to put the old particles together. Oh i see. These are not like fundamental like building blocks of the universe. We think but just sort of like when you range particles in a different way. They sort of become new particles right. They act like kind of article exactly like the proton is not a fundamental particle right. It's made out of quirks. He put to up corks down cork together and you get a proton and that's really interesting. Amazing the fact that it even works is something. We don't fully understand because it involves is very complex and very powerful force called the strong nuclear force in a corks. Have these weird things called colors and they exchange glue on's back and forth. It's an a crazy system. And so one thing we can do with the large john. Collider's figure out like are there other ways to combine quirks to make new kinds of particles. Can we shake corks together and build out new things. Like new kinds of protons. Maybe eight basically is what you're making the new kinds of protons because when the collisions happened remember where colliding protons and protons the large collider but again. Protons are not fundamental particles. So what actually happens when these protons come near each other is not the like one proton smashes into another one and they totally annihilate when you're at that energy the fact that these quirks are bound together into a proton sort of irrelevant because the corks have so much more energy individually than the bonds between them. So sort of like what you're doing. He shouldn't get like a triple beam of cork in one direction. And a triple beam of course in the other direction. So then what happens. When they collide. Is that the corks. Themselves are interacting. Now you have six quirks you can mix match and you can make all sorts of weird crazy stuff and because there's so much energy there you can even pop new corks out of the vacuum and make all sorts of new weird combinations and these combinations that really tell you or led you explore or know more about the basic particles right and how they're put together because it they all said a tell depend on the rules of court gloves exactly and we are trying to understand those rules. We wanna know how quirks push against each other. How glue on poll on each other. And then it's very difficult to grapple with this whole field of the strong. Nuclear force is very difficult because the force is so strong and so it's very hard to do calculations because things get out of hand very quickly one reason is that the strong force is weird. Really super interesting way. If you take two quirks and you start to pull them apart. You might expect that the strong force would get weaker as they get further apart from each other. That's the case with gravity right like as you get further from earth you gravity gets weaker. That's the case with electricity. like take two electrons. They will repel each other but as you move them further apart they start to repel each other. Less and less. The opposite is true with corks as you move them. Further apart if force between them get stronger and stronger. And that's what makes it really hard to do these calculations because you can almost never like neglect another particle in the case of gravity and electromagnetism. You can make lots of simplifying assumptions because as things get far away you can basically ignore them. You can never do that with the strong forces things get further away. They become more important and so these calculations are a big mess. They're really really hard to do. So as you say by understanding how these particles are fitting together. We're trying to understand what the rules are. And how they fit together not something. We still understand right. I think maybe something that people haven't thought about is that corks can combine in ways that are other than the proton right. Isn't that a little weird to think about. The course could make protons the which make up you and me and part of what makes you and me but it can also kind of fit together in different ways. It is cool but it's sort of the beauty of the universe and we see that same sort of thing happening in other places like the fact that you can take protons and neutrons and electrons and you can fit them together to make helium or calcium or neon or uranium. Those elements are also totally different. But they're made of the same building blocks so there's something really deep about the fact that the same building blocks can be arranged to make completely different things with totally different properties and so the same is true with his deeper level that you can take corks you can put them together and make a proton or neutron or you can do all sorts of other things. Thank you combine just to quirks together. That's like a pie on is made out of just to quirks or a row maison made of just to quirks so these things are really like lagos. You can combine the to make all sorts of stuff things that we don't understand exactly how those rules work. So it's very hard to predict which combination of quirks fit together to make a nice particle and which combination of course aren't stable will fly apart instantaneously really can't predict that you have to kind of look for them in a way. 'cause you found at least fifty nine different ways in which courts can be put together. That's fifty nine new ways. I mean we have lots and lots of ways for cork's to fit together. There was this period in the early sixties called the particle zoo when people were building bigger and bigger collider's and finding new all the time you know the pie on the k. On all these particles these particles that gave us a clue about quirks in the first place. We discovered all these crazy particles. We didn't understand them. And then people understood. Oh all these weird. New particles are built out of the same building blocks. They're all just built out of these. Little lego pieces called quirks. And so as you say we still don't really quite understand how to predict what else the corks can do. So it's very interesting to find those to go out and actually look for them as the old look. This weird combination works. That weird combination works. So that's been a big industry. The large hadron collider is making new combination of cork's to help reveal how these particles do fit together. What the rules are. And i guess. Maybe what's also interesting. Is that these. New kinds of arrangements of chords are not common right like most of the corks together that we see our protons neutrons but these new kinds of other protons and arrangements. They're not calming and they don't last very long right. Yeah just like the higgs bows on and the top court. These things are not stable. They don't last for very long. they're a little bit more stable and depends exact details. Some of them might even last. You know like million or billionth of a second but you don't find them in nature you can't like go drill into the earth to find these things you have to create them in high energy density environments. You have to pour energy into one spot so the courts have enough energy to make these weird massive combinations and each of these tell you a little bit more about how quirks glunz can come together. Which tenet those you more about the rules of the universe all right so then maybe tell us also beside icies competent particles. What else has been discovered yet so. We haven't found more particles but what we have done our more detailed studies of the particles that we do know for example. We're really interesting questions like exactly. How much does the top corps quay like. The top cork is a weird quirk. It's just like the up cork except it's much much much more massive. It's super-duper massive. And we'd like to understand. Exactly how massive is it. It's exact mass controls a lot about how things work in particle physics. So one thing we're doing is measuring that very very precisely to see if the mask had has makes sense with some of our other calculations so that's an example of the kind of thing we do like a precision study of the particles. We do know so we can anticipate anything. Weird can look for deviations and anomalies like we were talking about earlier right because we have this model of the universe the standard model of stuff and matter. But you know we think it's kind of the right one but there might be others or we. We just wanna make douglas extra sure that it's the right model of the universe. Yeah i would actually say we're sure it's not the right model of the universe. I mean it works pretty well. It's kind of pretty but we know is not correct like there are things about which is can't be right and we're we're looking for are the cracks in it. Were looking for hints as to the deeper more fundamental. More true model ends a one way to do that is to say well. I think there's a new particle out there. Let's go look and find it another way to do that. Is to test the wazoo out of it and say like well. Let's really see if it's correct. Let's see if we can find some deviations so we have done stuff like that. And you know at the large hadron collider. We talked about the podcast once. They found this weird particle that uses penguin diagrams and decays really strangely sometimes decays tomb. Yuan's more often than it decays to electrons which is not what we expected. And that's a sign that maybe there's some new heavy particle very briefly appearing in messing things up. Though that's the kind of thing we can do. Instead of looking directly from new heavy particles created the collider. We're looking for like they're subtle influence on the particles that we do know by looking at those cracks. He might look into cracks and find new particles. There right exactly and the kind of thing that i'm excited about as you said very intelligent earlier if you wanna find something new that you don't expect you need to understand what you do expect very very well. And so that's basically what we're doing is fleshing out exactly what we expect in double checking that we're seeing what we expect. I'm always hoping that we don't see what we expect. We see something weird new in the data that we can't explain with our current theory so far not yet not yet but maybe in the future so maybe tells. Now what can we expect in the future from the la. See and i think part of it is that maybe changing the name due to an upgrade right. Yeah we'll we are going to be running the elliott. See for another ten years. You know you pour billions of dollars into this machine. You want to get everything you can out of it. So we'll be running the large collider for at least another ten years and we'll be looking for these really subtle hints like the longer you run your collisions. The more you can see really really rare things or the more you can see very small deviations from what you expected lesions might be nice clues point as in the right direction. So we're going to be doing this for another ten years or so. Really checking out. All the details likely will also discover a bunch more of these new combinations of quirks waste. Put them together to make weird stuff they give us an idea for how coaxing lonzo work together and it's possible that we could discover some new fundamental particle some gravitons or some proof of super symmetry. Think the chances of that really get less and less likely the longer we go on without having seen it because one thing we can't do with the large hadron collider is increased the energy the energy is fixed by the size of the tunnel and the strength the magnets so we can run for a long time. But we can't like boosted up to any higher energy and that's really what we would need to find a new fundamental particle new really heavy new kind of particle. But if you do find one another one then that makes it the two fundamental particles for the price of wine and that have your per particle cost making it more of a deal. That's right exactly and we would love to deliver that deal for taxpayers around the world and you talked about changing the name. We are actually talking about new versions of the large hadron collider and so for example. People are talking about the v. l. h. Seeing the very large hadron collider which really is a thing. But we don't know if that's going to be built there where it would be built. It's going to cost a lot of money. And so there's a lot of politics involved and figuring out who's going to pay for that thing exactly where to put it right. I think you had a better name for it earlier. You should call it. The test was out of it. Particle collider that's the informal working name on all the documents. Internally yeah they knew particles wazoo particle zoo all right. Well i think and we'll stay tuned to see what else you discover in the next ten years and i think it was something that a lot of listeners might not know which is pretty cool that you can actually go to see you know once things open up hopefully after this pandemic and you can actually go there and they'll give you a tour of the facilities and you can go to their gift shop and look around and see scientists at work in eating the cafeteria you can buy yourself a higgs goes on and it's less than ten billion dollars these caviar there too and here no caviar but yes. T shirts weight is in switzerland. So they might have. I think a lot. Caviar eaten in switzerland. Not that much at turn. Chocolate and coffee but you can't come and visit. There's a really nice science center so come check it out into beautiful spot. It's also nestled between two sets of mountains in this field of sunflowers. Or if you like skiing right next to the alps so it's gorgeous spot if you have the opportunity to visit i totally encourage you. And we were not at all sponsored by switzerland or the large hadron collider just by listeners. Like you who in the end are the ones footing the bill for this whole endeavor. Thank you very much everyone for paying your taxes. Thank you jeff basis. All right well. That's pretty cool so stay tuned and we enjoyed. Thanks for joining us next time. Thanks for listening and remember. Daniel jorges blamed. The universe is a production iheartradio for more podcasts. From iheartradio visit the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen into your favorite ships. We talk a lot about the excitement of making new scientific discoveries but we couldn't make those discoveries without scientific data and the network you used to capture store transmit. The data can make the difference between learning a deep secret about the origins of the universe or not. That's why the world's leading institutions trust juniper networks juniper provides essential reliability from data centers to wi fi driven by a Learn more about universe work with the world's leading research institutions at juniper dot net looking for guidance motivation and variety from world class experts in your fitness and wellness journey. Find it with app to the fitness out. That's right for you and your lifestyle no matter where you are and your fitness journey app can match your experience level and goals with over six thousand wellness classes on demand a seven-day free trial. Find your way to your happiest and healthiest life and have fun at the same time. Try it free for a week. Download the app and go to dot com slash iheart. That's double a. P. t. iv dot com slash iheart. If you're a small business owner growing your business is what it's all about. That is if you have the space to do it. Keep smart self. 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