Trade Deadline Takeaways, and Rams vs. Saints and Rodgers vs. Brady Previews | The Ringer NFL Show (Ep. 335)
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From dual threat and us Kevin clarkin rubbermaid from the NFL show all live from Caesar's palace in Las Vegas on November twelve at nine pm Pacific post Monday night football joined russillo, Kakinada as we discuss all things NFL from the greatness of Pat, Mahomes, Eli manning street New York, plus a number of valuable gambling and fantasy tips come hang with the ringer. NFL crew in Vegas, November twelve and just visit bit dot L Y slash Belvedere. Live a purchaser ticket. That's be IT dot L Y slash B. L V E D E R E L I V E to purchase your tickets. His various special live. Gas. It's all made possible by the world's finest all natural vodka, though. And please remember to always drink responsibly. See guys seasons. Welcome the ringer NFL show on the rigor podcast network on Bet's joint as always by. Kevin Kevin how you doing buddy? Well, how could I be better? Nathan Peterman is back in our lives. Greg Williams is leading a team a lot of tree deadline, and it's a golden age NFL fan. It's been fun. We another ACTA trade deadline. You wrote about that today? We talked a lot about why it's more active now than it has been in the past. But we're not going to do that today. We're gonna take more into the specifics of the players that got moved. That's how we're gonna kick off the shoulder day come into a little bit earlier just because the traits happened on Tuesday. So no reason to keep waiting around all week. This is going to be the biggest news for shore. So let's start our takeaways with the NFC east where three teams made splash trades are portrayed from last week. The eagles went out the perpetually all in eagles went out and got golden Tate and some more surprising move. The Redskins went out and got Packers safety ha Clinton Dix. So I mean, this is. A division where everybody got a little bit better. So guess who won the trade deadline Robert Mays? It's probably John Johnny Gruden as I wrote today on the dot com. Jon Gruden when the train deadline because he got his first round pick for Marco per week before we figured out the value of a above average receiver, and the NFL guess, you could phrase it that generously. So golden Tate to the eagles. Very fascinating to me. I taught to a number of people in the eagles organization in training camp at the beginning of the season. And one of the things we're just talking about their inefficiencies and talked to Jeffrey Loria about a little bit. And it's in a story I wrote in September. But one of the things they thought was a real advantage was getting in guys to see if they're worth a long term commitment kind of a date before you marry type deal that has worked with Al Sean Jeffrey that took a one year flyer on then they extended for four years golden Tate is that golden Tate is a yards after catch Lord. Like he he breaks tackles at a better rate than almost anybody at the receiver position. He's basically running back in the open. Field. I love him in this offense. You know? I Elliott shore parks as tweeted and written a couple of times last twenty four hours that the only thing you need to be worried about right now if you're the eagles surrounding Carson Wentz with talent. And this does that so they get half a season for them. Charles Robinson, Yahoo reported. I think he's gonna be asking for sixteen million in free agency. I don't know if he gets it at age thirty. But I think generally, it's a great move. It's going to maximize their ability to win the NFC into the Redskins are still going to be there. You know, Hockley index deejays where I enjoy are the two highest rated safeties by pro ball focus this year. So they've got a form secondary. Now to go along with that run defense, which I guess is important in some weird way. And so yeah, the NFC east got better on Tuesday. Neither of these teams as contenders. But the the race just got more interesting. I'll be curious to see what happens if the eagles. I'm not wanting to throw them out of the Super Bowl contender conversation Super Bowl. Can I think it's possible? I everything breaks. The Derek Burnett Inge. Kills them. Yeah. It kills them. But that's a spot where they have the most depth on their team. No, I agree. But I you win with depth the defensive line. That hurts. But I don't think that precludes them from making some noise. I think the world of the eagles. I would not be surprised if they made an jam came by any means Carson Wentz is quietly playing very well right now numbers wise, it's better than you would has playing last year. He's completion percentage his way up people have talked mostly in a fantasy kind of about how the golden Tate trade kind of kills off Nelson. Aga- lauren. I don't really believe that just because this is a team that uses more twenty one personnel. Then excuse me, twelve personnel than any other team in football. And it's pretty convincing. Dallas guttered Zakar. It's playing together a lot and they didn't necessarily do that last year. They did a decent amount of it. But they also were willing to go eleven pretty often. And it also seems like they could play Tate, Aguilar and. Alshon Jeffery together. I think this gives them another playmaker. And I think this makes their offense better when they're lacking running back talent everything else. So and in terms of the compensation, even if he doesn't get sixteen million, even if it's a deal more in the thirteen million range, alshon, Jeffery. That's exactly what she just got pure are sewn got nine and a half million dollars two seasons ago. I feel like golden Tate at thirty still pretty darn well from self with the eagles being over the cap currently for twenty nineteen it's almost certain that they won't be spending it all. So they're going to get a cop pick four golden Tate in twenty twenty almost for sure just because they're not gonna have any money to throw around and free agency. So they're renting in for eight games by giving up a twenty nine thousand third round pick. But they're probably gonna get a pick a year later. Anyway, I have a new theory on this. And it relates to Tate who obviously is going to be thirty or thirty one negotiating. So I've written a lot about sort of the NFL's age problem and. Sort of skewing of rosters towards the guys in the first four years. It's almost ridiculous. This point Jason FitzGerald from over the cap tweeted, I saw last night sixty one percent of NFL rosters and made up of players twenty six and under only fifteen percent are thirty and over. And when you consider how many of those guys are quarterbacks you start to see a kind of stark picture for veterans. I guess I'm wondering if someone like Tate isn't an inefficiency because teams just hate hate hate signing player to third contract right now. Maybe you get Tate from much cheaper than you would. Normally if you just look at his numbers. I mean so much of the Amari Cooper stuff was oh, he's only twenty three years old who cares? Twenty three years old. He's making fourteen million dollars next year. The only point of age is those guys. I mean, unless you think he's going to spend fifteen more years in the Cowboys. The only point of age aside from some injury difference is that. That they're on their rookie contract. And so if you can get a guy who's thirty thirty one thirty two with massive production. I know there's a bigger risk there. But he's on a cheaper deal. That's massive inefficiency for some like the eagles to pick up a guy like Tate. We'll see what has market is. I feel like if you can get him for something a little bit less than that top wide receiver tear, even thirty because let's be honest to your contracts, anyway, so if you're gonna give him, you know, most of that money in the first two years guaranteed. So let's say it's something like thirty million dollar range, and you have a market where guys are making sixteen seventeen artists. Good as he is like Charvis Landry. For instance. I think that that's something that's palatable for most teams. The problem is he's walking into a market where he's going to be by far in my opinion, the number one option other free agent wide receivers next season. I'm not even counting lay. It's Gerald Randall Cobb Donte Moncrieff on Austin John Brown, Germain curse, Kevin white. Mike Wallace co. Oh Beasley Quincy noon wa. Kelvin Benjamin Germain curse has more yards. Since it started twenty seventeen in the Marco, it's it just seems like it's going to be the guy, and that's going to pump up his his market. But if that's a good thing for Philadelphia that makes total sense. And it's the reason that the lines just couldn't keep him. I'm not surprised at all that they traded and we'll get into that a little bit later on. But let's talk about the Washington trade for two seconds. Here are do you think this moves the needle for you at all regard to Washington? I mean, this is a team that's winning division. Currently feels like they absolutely could squeak out ten games if things break the right way. But I know their defense could already I mean now they have two of the best safety in the league right now the way they're playing, but if you can't score twenty points twenty four points. I'm not sure that you're a playoff team. Yeah. I mean, we talked about the other day is agent Peterson when game for you is not necessarily sustainable. This is a team that is thirteenth in pass defense right now, let's say Clinton Dix and he's been consistent. I don't know. If that pro football focus grade reflects. Sort of the ups and downs of his last few years in Green Bay, but it makes them a little bit better. So now you have a above average or sightly above above average past defense with a good run defense. That's enough to get you a couple more wins. But if the eagles, I think this is all dependent the entire division is dependent on the eagles returning normalcy. If they returned to how they should be playing. The Redskins have no chance, let's talk about the Clintons. Trae from the Packers perspective. Do you like this for Green Bay? It just seems like a risk. I if feels like this team could absolutely make the plan gonna try to squeak out a mid round pick forum when in reality, you might just be able to write it out. This team does not do much free agency. Maybe they're making planning on making some sort of push. And that's why they felt like they could let him go because they didn't really mind the comic calculations because this franchises Stoorikhel is obsessed with that. They don't sign free agents for the most part all the only guys they sign include. Jimmy Graham, our players that were cut from other teams because they love their third round, compass. So it's a good question. So I we talked about the possibility of Clinton X trade last week. My general thought is this and I'll just take the Packer side for one second before swinging around Aaron Rodgers becomes even more expensive, very soon, you need as many pictures, you can get because the only way you can win with the very very expensive quarterback is to hate on a lot of your picks. They're not gonna win the Super Bowl this year. They know that there's probably no scenario in which they reached the heights of the Rams and the saints. I know they just played them last week. But I think that if you just looking at the rest of the season there's no guarantee of made the playoffs. So if you're good and Kunst, if you're Mark Murphy, if you're rest ball, and you look at this this this landscape, I think maybe the Aaron Rodgers deal was essentially for another four or five years. He's going to be around. I think you play a modify. Guide long game push towards next season. Hope you can hit on a number third round pick. I mean, listen they had a really good draft last year. A really good draft in two thousand eighteen gyro exander is really damn good. The secondary guy was awesome. The secondary guys. They added a really good. So this regime is shown they can draft. And so I think that if you're looking at twenty nineteen you have an extra third round pick to play with fourth round picks me to play with. I think that's that is defensible to safeties are troubling. My man, I'm just saying Germain Whitehead Ken show. And I'm not saying I would have done it. I'm saying that I'm taking if I was to make the argument from the Packers side if I was sent out there to make the argument from the Packers side, that's what I would say. As a bears fan. I love these moves. I love the golden tapes raid, I love the hawk Lynn, dick straight. It's all great. I love that the Vikings didn't do anything. It's wonderful. So it was a good day all around for team. It didn't make any traits. So Quinn talk about my next theory. Yes, I very excited about it. Why don't you laid up for us? Okay. So the king stayed the king's. There was probably a very small chance that anybody who was not in Super Bowl contention was going to vault into sue bull contention on Tuesday. The only possibility would be maybe the chargers traded for some elite player like Patrick Peterson would have helped their corner situation. The Vikings would have could have gone out and gotten a shady McCoy or levian bell. Something like that there was not altogether likely, but could have happened that could have changed the landscape of contenders in the NFL. So that didn't happen. And so the four teams that were SuperBowl contenders on Tuesday morning or the. Teams that were SuperBowl contenders on Tuesday night that being the saints. The Rams the chiefs in the patriots. The Rams went out and made that deal for Dante Fowler. I liked it. It was smart. It was low risk. They were already all in. Now. They're all inter I was on the radio with Nick right last night. And he made the the analogy to the Rams there. The guy who are at the poker table, and they're just like throwing their watch on because they've around a money, but they're just like your here's here. I'm throwing the watch trying to on the phone my wife trying to get the keys of the car here that whole thing they're just they were already all in. And now, they're all inter. And so I think that it was a good day for those teams because I don't the hierarchy necessarily change. I still maintain that the two biggest the biggest X factors league were not trades. They're Wendy Joey Bosa and Eric berry back because that's those are the best players who who haven't played for a team in the first half of the season. So I don't think this changed the playoff picture. It did not change the Super Bowl picture. I agree. I feel like most. Looking around the league, and they understand who's willing to go for it. And why and it's been that way for the last six months or so I mean the arms race that's been going on between the Rams and the eagles spin so fun to watch. I mean, those are the teams that are in every single trade conversation because they're liable to make trade at any point for anybody. The eagles were in the Patrick Peterson conversation. How do they have the money? They'll find it somewhere. I guess it's fun. I just love this version of the league when the formula has become so clear if you have the quarterback, you just have to go as hard as you can in that direction and the Rams and the eagles understand it better than anyone because they probably have the best rosters and they're going for it. And it's a blast. It just the NFL has never been like this. And it makes this time of the year so much more enjoyable, I loved it. I loved it. I enjoyed just the idea. I mean you've ever even two years ago. We were saying, well, what the hell why can't we get this trade deadline dough? And and now, it's it's it's going. It's I mean, it's churning like on all cylinders. It's really really. Yeah. So I totally agree with you. I just think that there's a clear twenty Asian between the teams that should be doing this in the teams that shouldn't. And most teams around the league understand that. So you enter that you like the follower trade for the Rams. Do you feel like a third and fifth is worth it. I feel like that's a really good return for Jacksonville. Maybe it can be true for both. I agree. So if you're a moment swing around in the Rams here, again, if you're the Rams, and you know, you have a limited window, and you say, okay. Well, we can win the Super Bowl if we just get one more pass rusher than you. Do it Dante Fowler. I think is sixth in just pass rushing by PF grades this year thirty second overall as far as edged offenders. So if you think you can get to the quarterback that's damn important. It's to saxes fifteen hurries. He's fine. Will the Rams were already third and hurries in the entire NFL? So it's just sort of a rich gets richer. It's not like, obviously defensive line was not a huge weakness for them. They have the biggest game recor of. Decade on the defensive one. So this here's I said, yes. And no, I mean, I can understand where you're coming from with that. But when you don't have any guys that make a huge impact that starts to matter consumers put a lot of defensive end for this team. So when you need a guy on the edge that can do some stuff because if you don't then the focus can shift so hard to those guys on the inside. And I think that this makes everybody better, and you can say Dante Fowler only has an impact in Jacksonville because the guys he's playing with. But that's true LA to. I mean, these so much talent next to him that it's not as if he's gonna take a lot of attention. So that's the argument. I mean, he can have the same impact for the Rams that he had for the Jags. And that's probably true for maybe two or three teams in the entire league. Yeah. But I'm just saying the point is to win a Super Bowl. And I think that the cheese if you read some of the report around the chiefs, they did not want to go super all in because they know they have a longer window with Mahomes than golf does because Mahomes was drafted one year after so you just have to consider that. As far as going all in by the way, that she tried to get all Thomas a month ago. So now at the standing, Pat, they didn't overpay for a guy who who A-Team been when apart with like apparently, Landon Collins or dinars Jenkins or even ha Clinton Dix. So who was available, obviously. But I just think that if you're the Rams, and you think this is Super Bowl, then it's worth it. You know, I kinda think I didn't the long game is very important. But I can see why if you think if you think in the short term, this is our window. You take it, you know, one of the things remember reading a story a couple of years ago about arson Vang or the arsenal manager, and they quoted Billy bean and Billy bean said something that's so committed. It was that. Well, he manages to complement is a key manages the team like he's going to be there for a hundred years. And I understand why that's a compliment for an why Bangor will take a compliment. Why being would say it? But isn't the point like if you're bandaging like that all the time, you you never really realise when your window is your window? And that's sort of what I admire about Snead in McVeigh is they understand this is the time. And Fowler was the only guy that was available who they think they can make them better than the third round pick and fifth round pick is fine. So here's say about that. I think that's a fascinating point with a matching for a hundred years because I agree with you that you should go for it when you can go for it. But I also think that having that long view is a product of self awareness and a lot of ways and not enough franchises have that self awareness. And that's why one of my takeaways that I kind of like the golden trade for the lions. Yeah. Let's go. It makes sense to me. Because if you don't if same with what you said about the Packers if you're not gonna win the Super Bowl, which I don't think the lions are you get a third round pick for golden Tate mixture and alliance aren't gonna win the Super Bowl. I don't think. So I know you're shocked by this third round pick for golden Tate next year and everyone reliance fan was crowing about a w-. A why would we trade golden Tate? We're gonna third round pick for him. Anyway, that's not how that works. That's only if you don't sign any other free agents, the lions aren't the eagles. They have kept space, and they have tons of holes. So if you're the lions you thirty five million in space for twenty nineteen right now, you probably have a couple of cuts who knows what the caps going to be. Maybe it's one ninety two. So. Forty seven fifty pretty quickly. And now, you don't have golden Tate. Now, you don't have to worry about the topic thing you spend and you have that third round pick in hand next year. I just think that a lot of GM's like the GM and Tampa who sat there and just said, no, we're not training to Sean Jackson. I don't care have the short view of this. And sometimes you have to like that. But yeah, that was a job preservation, and the only way the only way that would have turned the owner was like we got a we got to play the long game. And that's one hundred percent, and that's fine. But I'm just saying it's nice to know that maybe you have that job security because you can make smart decisions. And that's what the lions did. I feel like it's not counterintuitive for you to trade for Damon Harrison, and then trade away golden Tate Damon Harrison is on a decent size contract. Next year. It's a seven million dollar hit. But there's no dead money. You can move on from him at any point. It's a low risk contract for a very good player. And you gave up a lesser pick than you had. Then you got in the golden trade. I think that both of those moves even if they seem like they're fighting each other are in pursuit of the same goal. I really do. And that's to make your team that best. It can be over the next few seasons to Bob cleanest, Matt spoken to the media since the draft. That's incredible. That a lot of teams do that though. But you would assume. That's true. I I think every GM in the league is at least bailable a couple times a year. I don't want. I'm not an access complaining guy. I just found that very fascinating. I feel like there's some teams where they're available after at the end of the season press conference. Maybe I'm wrong about that. After the draft at the end of the season press conference. But it would seem like after you make to blockbuster. Trees GM would be available. Tom coughing, speak a lot to the media. I I don't keep tabs on all this. But that's not super shocking. Pretty reclusive. It's kind of funny to me. Okay. Yeah. No. I get it. I they're going through a rebuild. I guess in Detroit. I mean, I just I kind of feel like. This extends the Packers as well. Because there are four clear cut teams. It's really hard to break into that. I kind of feel like this is the year to retool a little bit and look towards twenty nineteen. So you look the lions have Matthew Stafford and we've gone over this million times. I know doesn't seem like Matthew Stafford is a elite elite quarterback. Maybe he's not, but Matthew Stafford can win you a Super Bowl because you can put up a lot of points and only a couple of things need to change for him to get into that elite elite level. Okay. So if everything breaks, right? The lions could be contenders because they have a really good quarterback. So I think that pushing your chips into next year is a or twenty twenty maybe they're targeting twenty twenty is a fine strategy whether or not it'll work is a complete different different subject, but the strategy might be. So I really like where this team is going off their offense of light has been so much better this year so much better Matthey staffers knocking pressured at all they're running the ball. And losing golden Tate. Hurts you on the offense. Obviously, he's a really good player. But you have Kenny golladay, and you have Marvin Joan stylistically, very different. You can't replace Tate stylistically, but you can make up a passing game with those guys still pretty dangerous. I think you need some money to go after your defense, and you need some picks to go after place on defense. That is important agree. They beat the patriots issue. I twenty eighteen is the all time record holder for just games that might not have actually happened. It's still a jets lions game the lions played two of them. The jets law. Hens game was the weirdest game all time and then the bills Vikings game was weirdest game of all time. And then the lions patriots just didn't make any sense. And the lions just got shellacked by Seattle. It's there's a lot of weird stuff going on with the lions most of all we're absolutely living in a simulation f why last one here, which receiver of the three that were shredded you feel like we'll have the biggest impact on the team. Going to play for this season. Obviously. So we have this. We have this question because we wanted to mention marriage Thomas, but I'm going to be doing that. I'm going to say golden Tate. Okay. That's totally fine. Let's talk about wide to marry his Thomas impactful because he doesn't play offense of line. He is not as good for this offense as willful now. I firmly believe that he's a much different receiver. The only thing that's good for this is that he's going to take away some attention from geometry Afghans, you need another outside presence. So you can't just roll over the Hopkins every single time. That's why Mary's Thomas was trays and it's fine. I'm fine. I just anything that can help to Sean fly on commercial aircraft may okay with all the matters at this point. All right before we move on. Let's take a quick break. Co create super cool hands on project for kids that makes learning about steam fun Kiwi. Co projects are designed to spark creativity. Tinkering and learning and kids of all ages. 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So we both went talk with the Browns. Yeah. It's a big week for Brown's chatter. I don't think. I'm going to throw this out there. I don't think Greg Williams should be. I think that they should just cleaned house. And I think they've Greg Williams maybe should not be allowed to coach the Browns. We're not that far removed from Greg Williams being disallowed to coach anywhere in any capacity in the NFL. I not a lot of not allowed to red flags more red than it's time to solve the dysfunction YouTube or fired and we're bringing in Greg Williams to smooth everything out. What is to go wrong? What is that a team led by Greg Williams that has the number one overall pick? Oh my God. I mean, could that's the I I can't imagine everything that led up to Greg Williams here to sell the dysfunction now. First of all I had a couple tweet this Avni. And and I completely agree. We had like five Howdy episodes of hard knocks rather five or six something like that. Yeah. We had just five and a half hours of documentary evidence at this was going to be a complete disaster. And an absolutely was they weren't hiding for the cameras. No. That's the stuff in brownies. Are who we thought they were coach you imagine. What we didn't see they okayed all that stuff at a certain point that conversation Haley and Pugin that meeting there was like, well, it's not as bad as the other shit. I guess we might as well, let them show that. Do you? I have I have a friend who do you know that there's a lot of the what gets on TV and what doesn't is. Endlessly fascinating to me because you know, the Mike up stuff goes through NFL PR. Stan sure I was once told that if if rau- audio got through. Into the masses and was not edited out by teams that there'd be a massive scandal every week. Oh, absolutely guys say to each other. It's just unbelievable. Just like they find out what? Okay. Find out their deepest darkest secrets and they just screaming at each other. I feel like it some point when the league stepped in and just took over the Hornets. I'm not saying it has to go to that degree. But maybe the league should step into like, I don't know. Who's a good example like Marv Levy Marv Levy was on the Monday night game. He was his there which Kelly when Thurman Thomas's jerseys getting retired Marlee he's like ninety five years old. But it's like Marv just take over the team for five eight weeks. Like, you're in charge. Like, we know it's not gonna go that great. But we know it can't be worse than Greg Williams. Could also just make it like a Bill Snyder thank Kansas stained as making the coach for like a decade. Bill center came in to shore out this Kansas state thing after on France through there for ten years, that's such such. Check that out a couple of weeks ago. I couldn't even believe he was still there. I don't really watch college football anymore. But I'm like bills who's coaching Kansas state now. Oh, it's Bill Snyder. Fetter? Yeah. I was shocked at all of that went down. But it was amazing. I mean, he's an all time. Great college football coach this off topic. But that was one of the worst college football programs in the history of college football, when he took over I believe in nineteen eighty nine and the fact that they've been nationally relevant for the last thirty years in any capacity. It's just a miracle. But there are other examples totally Dungy. Tony Dungy's is sitting there on TV to just go take over Tony like having a dull to be in the room. That's all that matters. And there is not one now. Wait, I just you know, they should bring in. Bruce arians. Oh way better choice having not just perfect. So he was he was Brown's offensive coordinator in Tim couch era, you bring a man he gives some funny quotes to the media. He yells at some people. He you know, he valuate some talent he tells Baker Mayfield. What to do he yells about spread offenses for a while? And then he just leaves goes back to the booth was he calling that game on Sunday, or no, I don't I don't think. So I don't think he was either. But if you were just like he could've stayed flowed back with the team. I think he was calling the panther's game. I can't remember all these games on mute. So I never pay it. Well, I can't I watched one game with sound. But I watched the red zone on mute. Okay. Because it just drives me crazy when I'm going back and forth. I'd rather listen to hire a game and here like the rhythms of the non is then have him swim. Time wrote a story two years ago about Steve ballot. Check, Bill Belichick, son. And he said that he learned football by wa. Watching games on mute. And the reason he did that was because his grandfather bill's father thought the announcers were just all eighty it's and they will never watch game with the sound on. And I don't think that I just learned a lot about Bill check. When I heard that story. I would rather watch like on Sunday. I'd rather watch the bears game with Romo in Nance on one TV with the sound on and then have red zone on the TV not with us out. So I just listened to one set of announcers, so wait. So you're take shop is Browns related might take also Browns related and certain think this might not be a good coaching job. When I was talking about it on Monday. I was very into the idea that they could get a really good candidate. Yet. Baker Mayfield, the Rosser is very talented. But then you hear more and more stuff one Greg Williams as the interim head coach someone decided that was a good idea to who knows. How involve John Dorsey is going to be with all of this. You know, the whole problem with bringing Hugh back. Is that it seems like Dorsey and Hugh were in different chains a power within the organization has had the you know, he was their boss if we're doing like an org chart of how the Browns work. And now, it seems like Dorsey is going to be more involved. But the last time John Dorsey was the general manager member. The problem was that it just seemed like he struggle with the managerial aspects of it. He's a phenomenal scout. He's a phenomenal talent valuator, but kind of running that building is what a lot of general managers do. And who knows how that's gonna go. And in Kansas City, even you had a guy like anti Reid who had so much control over so many elements in when eighty read was in Philadelphia. He was much more of the overseer. He was the CEO head coach in a way that a lot of people are he'd been there for a long time mardi morning ran offense of meetings. Marnie morning did offense of install all that stuff in Kansas City. Andy Reid was in charge of that stuff. He oversaw everything Brian Brian Billick once referred to Andy Reed's. Reign as a benevolent dictatorship. There you go. So he now has he runs every human everything Kansas City. He still does. So you have a general manager that dealt with a coach that was super involved. And now you have GM that's probably going to be in charge again. And maybe that's not necessarily gonna be the case with who they hire. So I just think that I have more question. Let's say John Dorsey isn't the one that is really overseeing everything and super charge that leaves Jimmy has again. And we know how that's gone, so I just feel more and more about this. I'm getting a little more apprehensive about how good that job is for the person that should take it. So is a couple of things number one bad owners can become good owners. If there is someone in charge, you can take control of yoga nation. I think John doors. He's a really good GM. And I think that he can be empowered. And I think you can hire a guy like Lincoln Riley, and then he wins, and he has innovative schemes. I don't think it'd be a lot of meddling. That is my that is my guess, I think one of the problems, that's my hope one of the one of the problems with the Hasim regime has not necessarily been has Lomb. It's been the fact that they've hired a bunch of crappy people and in succession, and thus you know, you start losing. And then the meddling begets begets more meddling that kind of thing. So it kind of feeds on itself. It's it's. Negative momentum in in in the worst form. So I don't know if you brought in a guy who just started this lit the world on fire of Lincoln Riley starts five no next year. And Baker Mayfield is just crushing it. I don't know if it becomes a toxic environment. That's how you don't know. What a good person looks like in Cleveland because you haven't had it yet. I'm with you here. That's why it's might take shop. I think John Dorsey is very good. I just don't know about how it's gonna go when the power structure changes their little bit just because so far it doesn't seem like it's going pretty well. I agree. So I would love to see it go. Well, I would love to see Baker Mayfield succeed. I want that more that I want most things NFL related just because I think it'd be so fun. I my hope is that I'm very wrong about all of this. But I'm starting to get worried. Okay. I'm now worried I'm worried about worried about like ten things in the NFL more than I'm worried about that good. That's good. I makes me happy makes me feel a little bit better. All right. Let's get to the biggest three. Games of the week start off with. I mean a couple of blockbusters this week this rules. Yeah. It's fun. I mean couple of weeks over like, oh, man. We can't even find three pairs down Seahawks. Chargers could be a fun when we're not gonna talk about that. But we're start with Ramzan saints because that's a me is the headliner. I know Rogers Brady everything else. But these are the two best teams in the NFC. Did you see Marcus Davenport's out for a month? Really? And got a casino. First round pick got until injury. No that's brutal their past exactly been great with him. I gotta tell you toll injuries. Not something want to be involved in. It sounds more painful than like an ACL. There's so many different kinds vary. Wintering way. I mean turf toe is not a toe injury turf toe. No, it's a foot injury saying the types of turtles. Yeah. Yeah. I did that sucks. Doesn't sound fun. That's I've been hit by multiple cars in the last two years, and I'm completely fine with that. But toe injury. What are we thinking about this game? What do you look? So I'm looking for another test for both of these teams. They both had really interesting tests last week, obviously the saints with with the Vikings and the Rams the Packers. So I'm really excited to see with the top of the NFC looks like I'm looking for individual matchups more than I don't necessarily believe whoever wins, this has some sort of psyche advantage when they play again in January. I don't I don't really believe in that lingering digital matchups can can the saints make enough plays. I keep going back to the idea that someone like PJ Williams turned around their fortunes mid game last week when they were getting picked on. And then they made the, you know, the start forcing turnovers. So I'm just looking for that. I wanna see if either of these offenses is legitimately unstoppable. One of the things I learned in the Rams Vikings game was at the ram even though the Vikings put up, you know, a trillion passing yards and Adam feelings breaking records to fund digs uncover bowl in situ. Nations. They just couldn't hang with the Rams in a shootout. And that's what I'm intrigued by is. Or one of these offense is going to be able to find the extra gear and put up forty points put up thirty five points at the Malinche. It's twenty five. That's what I'm intrigued by just how units matchup one of the reasons the Vikings couldn't stick with the Rams and shootout is that the Rams excuse me the Vikings offensive line camp block the Rams, right? That's the number one elements me of this game is the Rams pass rush. And the important it's had over the last few weeks. There's struggles in the secondary make the pass rush crucial. It's necessary for them to stop people. And I don't know if they're going to be able to take over the game against the saints. Like they do against other teams the saints offense of line is so good and breeze gets rid of the ball so fast as of last week. It was the sixth quickest release time in the league. It was two point three eight seconds. And they have an offense of line with no leak MRs. There are no bad players on the saints. Offensive line think about that in two thousand eighteen how many teams can say that one two three and you can count on one hand easily. And I just feel like that's going to be a problem for the Rams. It's the type of game. I could just imagine turning into a shootout because I don't believe that the Rams can stop the saints. And it might just come down whoever has the ball last. I mean, if the Rams are going to say, all right, Marcus Peters. You have Michael Thomas. That's not gonna go. Well, it's not going to go for the Ramsey has not played all year. Who knows how healthy he is. And Michael Thomas, a monster the Rams off defensive just completely ill equipped to deal with the saints team in a way that they're not with almost any other team in football. Yeah. If it's a one possession game. I'm not gonna take a lot away from it. No. I think it could be because I also think the saints are going to have a really hard time stopping the ramps. Ono? I totally agree especially with Marcus Davenport out. I mean at this point what kind of what kind of defense, are you going to be? I don't I don't think even though they had. That recovery last year where they looked helpless in September. And then all of a sudden they've got the tenth ranked defense by points at the end of the season. I don't see that sort of transformation for the saints this year. I think they're obviously getting better each and every week on defense. But I don't think it's going to be that significant. I think they're going to have to just hang on tight on defense and try to win some of these shoot outs. This very weird stat. And I'm not exactly sure why it's true. But the saints have second best run defense in the NFL. Let's go are the reds game. Very good against the run, which is just bizarre to me. They don't necessarily have the personnel to do that. But I the Redskins is Houston surprisingly enough. I don't know. I just don't I don't care about the stat. So it's Houston the Texas defense is very good. But yeah, I mean, they're corners are a mess right now. But for the most part, they have good personnel front. So yeah, I I don't really know how this is going to go for the saints defense. I don't everyone is everyone is decent. Stopping the run is decent until they played the ramps and they have to deal with like having to put five guys in the box because the Rams have four receivers out there. And then girly gashes them every play. What do you think the over under us for this game fifty nine sixty that is that the highest ever? I don't think it's the highest ever. It's the highest. I've seen this season. Wasn't the highest under over on the NFL ever earlier this year? That doesn't surprise me. We've seen a lot of game or something that sounds right. Falcon Steelers was the highest the season that was fifty seven. This is sixty. Sixty. Oh, man. I'm all over this Reddit thread. There was a falcon saints game in nineteen seventy nine where the over under was thirty two. So that's all you need to know about football. All right. Let's get to our next one here. Packers at patriots. I mean, this is so fun. I went to UCF dot com this morning, and I saw their little illustration of Rogers in a helmet at it. Just it's warm by soul so much was like oh my God. I love seeing it. I love seeing him at anything that yellow fucking dome. Hypothetically. If there was someone on this podcast who was going to write the same column. They would have had a much different reaction to seeing that illustration, and knowing that they change the Rangel just throwing out ideas. So I did not necessarily enjoy see that 'lustration knowing that I have to write a different column. Now, I can understand why someone else wouldn't enjoy hypothetically. If someone had that co I'm ready to go for Friday. And then saw it. That's fine. Again, not saying it's me. It's definitely hypothetical. Yeah. So that was interesting. So I think that these are two, and it's really interesting to me because I talk about the golden generation of quarterbacks a lot breeze Brady, manning Rogers Rogers being the youngest one here and manning being the one who's been out of league three years. Yeah. And but what I find fascinating. Now is you see this younger generation? Mahomes, guys like that Carson Wentz guys who we know we're going to be around for the next decade and one of the things we're never going to see from them is their ability to navigate the different eras. When it wasn't the passing boom when the rules were different when it was more defensive. I mean, I just think what's interesting about Rogers and Brady is they reinvented themselves three or four times. I think I mean Tom Brady he came in as you know, I think the first Super Bowl he won. They described paper, cutting you to death sort of short passing, and then he goes to seven and now it's all signal and two thousand seven he's just throwing bombs or any moss or he's basically inventing the Myron slop position with Wes Welker two thousand eleven opens up even more. And now it's going back to the short quick passing. Because that's the Aira both of these guys. Mold themselves to the different eras of fifteen years. And it's unique because first of all the generation now won't have those different arrows and second of all day may not may not be good for two decades. What we've seen out of these two quarterbacks absolutely incredible. It's so weird watching the the patriots every year just so strange because watching Green Bay every year the offense is mostly static. We know what it's going to be run. A lot of eleven over the past few years. Not a lot of motion lot of slant flat. You know, what you're getting for the most part Green Bay. And then you go watch the patriots, and it's one of the same passing concepts. They've done that for years, and they've so many of the same plays in that playbook, but seventeen different guys running them. We've talked about the so much. Remember writing about it last season describe the evolution of their offense in how the plays Dona -sarily change. But the personnel packages change every week. I mean now they're running packages where it's eleven personnel. But Devlin is the running back James white is essentially their number one receiver. It's just a very bizarre team is far as their offense of game plans in their offense, a personnel structure, and I think that's not going to change this week. I mean, they destroyed the bears. By just put making them lineup and base personnel. And again, paper cutting them to death. That's what the patriots love to do. And they just wanna get your Outside Linebackers in coverage and just destroy them. And they love doing that to teams that run a three four and you're going it's another one this week. And I'll be curious to see what Bella check and mcdaniels are thinking because you can probably think this two ways one you could keep them in base and tear up guys like Klay Matthews, Nick Perry. If you make them drop or you can take team has traded away its best past defender. Best back in past defender, Alexander's pretty good, and you can make them flood the field with secondary players that probably shouldn't be out there, and you can attack them that way either with running the ball or something else. So I have no idea, and I never have any day with the patriots are going to do. And that's why the patriots are. So freaking good. It's fascinating. And what things interesting is. I think mcdaniels and and ballot. Check have had a lot of say in how the the patriots offense has evolved and stiffened rations mcdaniels meeting with Dan Mullen about the Meyer, offense and six there's a lot of ins and outs of just the history of that. I find really fascinating was interesting about broaders is I think any changes to his game have been via Rogers. And that's there's a lot of reasons for that. But it's interesting to me as far as Brady's fit within that system versus Rogers just improvisation in his brilliance. And I think that if you do like a departed deal and you switch them. I think it's very interesting history. I think that maybe I I kind of I don't know where do you fall on this Robert because I've been thinking about it a lot. Do you think that if Bella check had Aaron Rogers that it would be a dramatically different Rogers because it would be less sort of? Improvisation? I really don't know the answer to that. I thought about it that much I consider this. I'm more just few lake the inferno of talent that you would drop into the belch checks enough to make them dominant. And it's not that I think that they'd be better that much better necessarily because feeling would Brady is for that team. It almost defines them in a way. So it's hard to imagine. You know is this offense any different with Rogers? I don't know because Tom Brady is this offense every single element of Tom Brady is immensely. The processing decision making just how quickly he gets the ball. All of that stuff. That's who this team is at their core and Rogers, isn't that necessarily? So it's almost impossible to imagine. Just because it's so dramatically different. Yeah. I mean, it's unknowable and the, and it's very very fascinating to me. All right. Let's get to our third one of the week. Good old-fashioned Steelers ravens game. And guess what? Kevin after all of our hemming in Hong about the Steelers the beginning of the season, the Bengals the ravens are the Steelers done. The Steelers are in first place in the NFC north. Yeah. I've I kind of the ravens are in third. The ravens fell from grace. I know early season. And yeah, you lose two games. And all of a sudden you can you can fall quite a bit in the standings. I still believe in them. But I'm not I'm not talking. I'm not trying to talk myself into the ravens and San way was to ago. Yeah. I'm not either. I was watching that Steelers game against the Browns. And I know this is simplistic, and it's very much on brand for me. But you watch teams all around the league and you watch the Vikings and their passing game. And how the pocket crumbles every two seconds and Kirk cousins having to just throw into the backs of his offense of lineman arm angle on these Kirk cousins throws is hilarious. Like he's having to throw the ball over the shoulder of a guy running into him every single play. And he's still been pretty damn good at it to Shawn Watson the same way. And then you go watch a Steelers game Ben Rothlisberger during that game against the team with Myles Garrett and Larry Oga job who's been pretty good this year. Not was hit one time one. He was sacked one time any fumbled on that sack. Those jill. Kinda kinda got Garrett right? It was a very good player in the league right now. Ben Rothlisberger is the second least pressure quarterback in football. He is up there every single year and the number of sexy takes in the number of hits. He takes in pressure rate because this is a complete offense of line. That's played together for years. They know how to work together. They don't wanna pass guys off. They are just disgusting in the run game right now because they have such a feel for how each other play. And when you can have that at the core of your offense. It gives you a chance to succeed. And when the off it's a skill position players. You have are Tonio Brown juju Smith Schuster, James, Connor inevitably. It's gonna work. It doesn't matter. How what the struggles are any point in the season. How bad Ben Rothlisberger can be in stretches inevitably. It is going to work. I think they'll struggle a little bit this week. But those still make a couple of big plays. Because that's what happens when you have a very clean situation to work. It. I mean, I'm just looking thinking about last week against the Vikings. Drew Brees was hit one time the three times, I believe and this wasn't countered as a hit. But one time he was really bothered as he threw he threw pick. He threw pick. When these quarterbacks have just a perfect situation to work in there too. Good to not succeed. And that's just how I feel about the ravens offense or the offense right now. Even if against this ravens team, it's tougher slog in most. Yep. I agree. I think that in a weird way the season we saw so many weird things in the first month six weeks the season. I kind of think that everything is going to turn out almost exactly like we figured out with the exception of maybe the Jaguars. Yeah. I think the Jaguars are probably headed to a bad place. The place. All right Steelers room when the North Sea north cares. What do you think about? I mean, do you feel like the ravens can move the ball on the Steelers team because their defense has been much better as of late? I think that their pass rushes been better. But again ravens offense of Weiser pretty good pass protection as well. So I'm not sure if there are a couple of deep shots you can hit against this team. I think that Pittsburgh clearly struggled against the ravens and passwords and in in coverage when they played earlier this season. But I think this Steelers defense is finally coming around in a way, they weren't earlier around. Yeah. I don't know the answer to that question. And I because I think both these teams are changing rapidly. I'm I'm looking forward to that particular match up. Yeah. I think it's fun. I think it's going to be very telling about especially the Steelers play the Browns team, that's completely dysfunctional. Who knows what the hell is going on? I just feel like we're this defense was kind of a mess especially on the back end of the beginning of the season. It's starting to come around a little bit. And that's a scary proposition. Because. I don't know how their offense is going to be stopped. If they keep playing like this. Did you see Patricia today? I heard what he said to the team, right? I mean what else he got mad at a reporter, and he ripped his posture. What did he say the transfer preventively Woody reporter, what do you? Why do you think this move makes your franchise better? Patricia. Well, you know, do me a favor and just kind of sit up just like have a little respect for the process every day. You come and ask me questions. And you're just kind of like, you know, gimme this reporter. I'm sitting Patricia I'm asking just be a little respectful in this whole process. What are we doing here different worry about your posture? I don't know how mine is what I'm asking questions. I usually have I've not been. I've not been critiqued on that. I was once critiqued by used to be a lot heavier than I am now. And I was once critiqued about my press box eating habits by then offense coordinator, and I shared that story if you times, and then I had to I was informed. I cannot share that story anymore by ringer staffer. Because that person was body Channing me. So I just don't do it anymore. Okay. Don't tell that story anymore. Okay. I'm not worried about that Leone either. My was petro. Okay. All right. Do it was it was he was joking. He was joking. But it was real because I was over two hundred pounds. Teams joke. That's not the threshold. You're not over two hundred. I'm not ever two hundred anymore. But certainly was way over an impact Shurmur Whitney into shape like some sort of football. Richard simmons. I wish you could do the same thing for his football tape. The Thursday night football game this week is maybe the worst. There's a football game in the history of Thursday night. Believe that is typically accurate. Josh Chubu had a a stat about this. I don't have in front of me. But I saw earlier and I wrote it down. This is the worst time game in history football. Is there anything that you want to say about this game? Absolutely. Not. All right. Good. I'd rather playing the forty Niners. If you guys were curious, dude, I would rather have three hour long talk about my Pasha with Napa Tricia than watch this game. There's an football when it's on it's on all right guys. As always thank you so much for listening. We'll be back on Sunday, we -serily. Appreciate it. Talk to you soon. 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