You have Great Hair, Your Personality Sucks, I Love Your Shoes
French being is proud to be part of the Chicago podcast. Cooperative this episode is sponsored by overcast a better podcast app than whatever you're using right now. Let's overcast get overcast for free on the app store. I'm Jen and I'm trained physicist friendship ING. And the theme this week is group dynamic sexy. Tweet, you has many bad defense, but sometimes there is drama and you want to call it quits, don't write SD two tweets or crunch the militants. Jan by Degen spider, Jen, does whatever girls can everyone in the offices lucky that I'm even in here today that I- deigned to do anything but play video games. So you're enjoying the spider things. Oh, I turn. I should be sipping New York right now. So this is a video game. It's a video game. Yes. And your editor Chen, smart spied. You've got legs. And a lot of is you flies drink their blood mak- home out of stuff comes out of your butt because the onto my but isn't consider my Rhys. Oh, you all. Or else a little bit highs today? Because I've been painting my nails in the in the booth because I'm traveling this weekend. So you know, when you're traveling, you just every new you need to get done, you're jamming it into your schedule. Yeah, yeah. So like I'm painting my nails now because it's necessary. Of course, I'm going to wedding Zillow nails, black for the occasion. That makes sense the morning color. Exactly. Gen also look at this. You're hitting me and mysterious envelope. I mean, yeah, you can. I mean, you don't have to assist an envelope. It's, oh, vote by mail, Bella. Yeah, I vote by mail away everyone here because I don't feel like going anywhere. Yeah, or waiting in line. Oh, do as we say not as we do. Definitely vote and wait in line. I mean, definitely vote, wait in line, but like maybe next time get your vote by mail and then avoid all of this shit. Get your vote on. Hey, now gives you get your boat on by mail. Okay. It is clear that this is not going well in. We should just start answering. I think. I think that's correct. Freddie, what will lead it? Okay. Yeah. We're talking about we're taking on group dynamics in both of these questions are difficult, and both of these Askar's are in situations that we would never want to be in all. I'm so glad I'm not you and well, if these Askar's are in situations that I feel like this could have been avoided. I know. Some level that the way of it, you could've fixed this a long time ago? Yeah, in close one, hey friendship. Later this fall, I'm embarking on a trip with my two best friends. We met years ago in college, and since then we've moved to different corners of the cut and cut and touch through social media and group chat. That is very, very active every week sometimes every day through the years we managed to visit each other, but never the three of us at the same time. So this'll be the first time in six years. I'm excited but also want to be prepared in the past. We've sometimes had a dynamic or one of us will get on the other two's nerves and have to be confronted me. For starters, maybe it's the three's a crowd thing and know that something's about our lives are different now on, we'll feel like a lot of changes have happened since the last time we were all together OB lots of physical and emotional exposure to one another after many years apart how can I help my friends and myself stay comfortable and happy and had the best visit ever. She slashed, they pronounce goodness, gracious SS bowed Asia's trend doesn't want you to do this at all. I don't think you should do this at all. This sounds like a nightmare. This sounds like an absolute shitting nightmare. Like I know I said this before, but like there are literally four people on the entire planet that I could spend a night with. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Jen, your the perfect hotel room mate as we've spoken about because I'm quiet and I go to bed early. No, because you can't smell anything. Oh, yeah, that's right. I don't have a sense of smell right. If you were loud and you stayed up all night, I could put up with that because also your perfect in other ways. Thank you. But if I hadn't seen you in six years, I mean, this is going to be rough. You know why it's because this is a text chain friendship. This is a Puckett front that you're now bringing back into IRO meet space. Yes. And that is difficult, no matter what you do and traveling with people that you love and see every day is difficult to maybe because they've been apart for so long that this will go. Okay. Because they have so much to talk about I I can't imagine wanting to travel with people again who I've had like confrontational like fights fights with that is a really good point. Like how bad is the friction? Yeah. I mean, I love traveling with some friends, but also we don't fight. Yeah. Just get how rough is this friction between y'all? Like is it just a little tension after a long time together, or is there like a pattern of you being rude? I think it's the word confrontation that bugs me because so this could be a couple of different things. So one, it could just be a, hey, you know what? I think he might be angry. You wanna lower bar baby you when Lara bar lavar you own pocket on. So that's different from youth really been addict for the past few days and we are ganging up on you right now because it is such a problem that we need to hash it out or we will murderer each other in the night. Yeah, that's very concerning to me. Okay. So about this, like three, some dynamic at some point, it has to feel it will feel uneven or imbalance because there's no perfectly balanced friendship and three people is very difficult. Like I know they're like a twos, threes a crowd or whatever. What is it threes accompanying to crowd? What is it? I don't know. It doesn't matter three people's difficult. It is because at some point someone might feel left out or like you. Them a compliment, but not me couple it. Right, right. And I also feel like in this could be wildly off base. I'm going to say it anyway, say it, but I do feel like in a group of three there often is the fulcrum friend, no matter how close you feel to both of those friends. Like for example, I'm super tight with friend be and friend be is super tight with me and friend. See I like frenzy, but I think that I would cry on the shoulder of only friend be. Yeah, yeah, that's a really good point. Like who's the fulcrum friend who who's the glue going to feel like it might feel like it might be the asker you? Yeah, because you kinda ever taking charge. Yeah. And that's something to keep in mind as you head into this trip. You might have to be the grownup a lot of the time more the entire time, and that is like be good yourself when you do that, it kind of sounds like you're already doing the emotional labor before the thing even starts. So I guess what I would recommend Trane recommends just not doing this at all, but knowing that you are going to do it anyway. Right? You got to be able to hit reset, often, get reset on the conversation on your mood on the setup of how things are unfolding throughout the day. I mean, I think there's a certain amount of our general traveling with friends advice that will definitely be applicable like that. Make sure you've got food. Yeah. Yeah. Before you get snippy ask yourself, did you have your coffee caffeine? Did you have your allergy meds is their food in your tummy, but then there's also the added genomic of, are you sure that two of you need to gang up on the other and have a confrontation? Yeah. What like that? That would be the last resort that is a good point train like that shouldn't be the thing you you go to first? Right. So one of the things that we say when you have some beef with a friend, I like asking for backup. I think that that's important, and it's especially good as a little reality check to be like, okay, yes, this is actually a problem, but the first instinct should not be, hey, I need to get back up. I need to corner this person. It should be in the moment. Hey, like just are you okay? Yeah, yeah, checking in this. These are your friends, your friends of many, many years. I can't quite grunk. Why the first thing you would do would be to like corner them? Yeah, at not even necessarily being getting from the question that like it's day one confrontation, but the fact that you mentioned it makes me feel like it happens every time you guys get together. Yeah, that's true. And you know, this friend group sounds a little stressful and then adding traveling on top of it as an extra layer of stress. So you're probably going to have to ask a lot of yourself. You're going to have to be very flexible. So it could very well be that you've already made the travel plans. And of course, like I say, I just bail. I just just, you know, thanks maybe for the next traveling. I understand that you guys are all in different corners of the world, and then that is very difficult. Could you possibly meet on somebody's home turf because although that person will have an unfair advantage of the comfort of home, you all also get to partake in that in. That it's a, hey, can I just crush on the couch for a little while. Love that trend. That's so smart. There's a host rights and that actually kinda might restore the balance a little bit in a you said something really smart before we started recording, which was these friends in this group shouldn't wait for something to go wrong. Yeah, they should try to talk things out just as soon as they notice that things might beginning uneven or testy. Yeah. Yeah, it's not. Let's wait until this is unbearable and then lash out, right? Yeah. And again, like I, I'm sure you're listening to this and being like, we're all three very reasonable people on the way that we deal with. Our problems is very reasonable, but you wrote to us which makes me feel like this is a bigger problem than you are grunting. Yeah, and everyone's unreasonable some of the time, and I am definitely unreasonable. When I'm hungry, you're traveling. I'm on reasonable when I don't have internet access. Like I need to feel somewhat like I can reach out and like get help and stuff so, and it's and those and everybody has different qualifications or for their mental health through the years, we've managed to visit one of the fevers at the same time. I'm excited but also on Cran. Cran pass. We've had the dynamic where one of us will get the tuners and be confronted. So when does that happen if you haven't seen each other in six years to the to the little fights happen over texting. That's my concern. Yeah, that's so interesting trend. And you know, you can't. Obviously, you can't read like tone and people are more likely to jump to conclusions when they're reading the words rather than being near the person. Also, people will say things via text or tweet or whatever that they would never say in person or even out loud. Right. So, okay, my interpretation of this right now is they went to school together and this is maybe their third visit with the three of them altogether, just because I don't think that confrontation over techs, make sense, feel like that would have been mentioned right, like we fought over text a couple months ago. Right. So is it that six years ago they were in school together or is it six years ago that they travelled together for the first time? I can't tell. So this is the first time that you've seen each other in six years and six years ago is when you were in school. This is folly this. Pure folly that the three of you haven't seen each other in six years, you've only topped in touch via text, and now you're going to go see the Grand Canyon. Seems like the start of a road trip movie, right? Someone's going to die. All all. You're going to have Mike murder someone or each other, and you're going to have to bury the body and. You know, keep your secrets for life and we'll okay. But real talk. If you do accidentally hit somebody with your car, please go to the police. Don't bear them on the side of the road. I know that that's what movies have taught you to do, but it's really not a good idea report your murders. I feel like this asker is ready to go on an adventure, and that's exactly what this is going to be. This is going to be a fucking adventure. You're going to have some stories after this. You know what might be cute. What is if they want if one of you Staten alarm for three pm everyday and it's family meeting time and three PM every day you have to be perfectly honest with your feelings, air the grievances, say what say what's on your chest? Like we a daily state of our union and then you're heading off in the past and everyone has everyone who wants to talk, gets to talk guess maybe have something available to be like the totem that you pass around the room. Oh, yes, speaking. Yeah. Told him it's hard for me to answer this question because I find the idea of traveling with two people at. I haven't seen in six years. To be completely untenable is something I would never ever ever do. I don't think you could pay me to do it. I know I was thinking like, you know, turn, we get some tricky questions like sometimes when we hear from people that go to parties are extroverts, we're like, well, we would never do that. But this one is just like, like, I can't even wrap my mind around. Are you an alien? No, I actually think I think this person is an adventurous person who's who's decided to do something they know is a little bit risky, but I think this person is deeply emotionally stable in a way that I cannot even comprehend. I think that's the only way I could. I can imagine this going well. Okay. So ask her one no matter what we've said today. What we want is daily updates from you. Oh my God, tweet us every weird thing your friends say. So series, everything you smell in the car if you wrote tripping together. So imagine that you're on like the real world and you know how they have that confessional booth where you like just say yell about, like Kaley has been eating all of the fish sticks. You know what I'm saying? Like obviously give us the dirty. We. No, because this is unreal. And we also think that like maybe your level like five hundred friend in a way, we don't understand. Maybe you're very normal. Maybe your way more normal than us it. We can't picture this because we are broke. Occasionally we do hear from nice storm. Will people boy their inclusion, get us out of this, get us out of this. I can't. I'm just, I'm I'm upset thinking about this. Oh, let's just give someone an inspirational message then assuming this person is nice normal. Let's just say everything you will need to get through this trip is already inside you. Yes, that's all I have Jan. I can't even give them advice. I just want to know what happens next. Really the in conclusion, and we've had we've given tiny amounts of advice a between us being like jamadar bad choice. So first of all, just do the basics of self care, which is make sure that you have your meds, make sure that you've got food, make sure that you've got water, make sure that you have access to a bathroom and remember that all of these things are things that are difficult when you're traveling and they are. They will be difficult for everybody in the group on different levels. Some people are angry when they don't want their coffee. Some people could give a shit whether or not you stop at a Starbucks first of all next beyond being sensitive to other people be extremely sensitive to yourself because you can only control how you take care of yourself and how you react to other people. And then three, I really do like the state of the union check in every day. If it's if it feels hokey, that probably means you're doing it. Right, right. And also do not wait until there's a confrontation where two of you have to hang up on the other that's way too long. No, no, no, no, no, no, that something has gone wrong several times over if that's what it comes to. It crosses your mind to. Pullover friend be to talk about friends. See, that's the moment that you need to actually do something that's the time to be the grownup. Yes, it's not. Let's form a coalition of the normal yet. No, texting about the other person. This is really going to. I mean, like turn said, you can only control your own behavior here. Yes, so make sure you're behaving. Okay. Mom, friend, you've now been designated ferry squad, mother move forward. God bless you. Oh, this next question. This next question is another one that just stresses me out to think about. So I'm going to read it. I- Tren I'm part of a closely knit musical community which includes my partner of over a year. My roommate and several friends of ours. One key aspect of this community has been a jam that's been going on for years of which I've become one of the hosts over the past year or so I've become increasingly bothered by the behavior of particular person. Let's call him Paul in our group. He's assists head male who takes up a lot of space. A lot of the time my partner has tried to. Talk to Paul about his behavior and what is and is not appropriate at this jam on multiple occasions with very little success. It even seems like having those talks has only made Paul feel more self assured that he understands how to act because he's talked about it and drawn conclusions that are convenient to him. Also, Paul's recent ex partner has expressed discomfort about being around him in this setting, but there otherwise cordial. I feel like it's my responsibility to address this both for myself and to make our community a more inclusive space. Here's the twist. My roommate has recently started dating Paulk and it serious. She knows very well. What I think about him if it weren't for the fact that we're living together, I wouldn't be too bothered by this as it is. I'm trying my best to balance being fair and considerate to her as a roommate and friend while also expressing my own needs. And foundries in my own home, I told her that I need a lot of communication about when he becoming to our home. I'm concerned about. Sharing space in a small apartment. I also do not like the idea of seeing this person Paul face when I walk out of my room in the morning, I know it's going to happen, but I prefer to avoid it as much as possible by planning to state my partners when necessary or by her planning to stay with hers. She hopes that ultimately her partner can come and go as mine has been able to know. Also, I said, I'd gladly communicate more about my plans as well, but this situation isn't the same. My partner is extremely sensitive and consider it. She herself has described my partners the best in kindest person. She knows why she dating Paul, it's there's so much. I told her that this isn't just about me being around Paul, but about him being in our home, which feels especially intimate and invasive to me given the way he has made me feel in our community and that I haven't yet addressed my concerns with him. I feel like I have no safe-space from this person. I'm angry and frustrated. I have two questions. What is a good and effective way as a community. Leader to talk with a thick headed ses hut mail about his behavior. I'm inclined to say, take up less space or you're not welcome in this situation. Is that too harsh is not clear enough for someone who may not even understand how exactly he is taking excess space and question to what is fair to ask of my roommate in this situation? I refused a sacrifice my comfort in my own home, and yet I'd prefer not to lose a friendship over this please help. Thank you so much pronouns. She her, wow, a kid and musical theater is annoying around now. I've, no, I've heard everything. Thanks for letting me deliver that took Trinh state it anytime it was very much needed. And I mean, so it's so it's a jam session that's been going on for a year. So it's these creative people who come together to just let loose, which sounds amazing. Yeah. And then unfortunately, Paul is also showing his face over the weekends or in the weeknights because he's dating your roommate. So you need a big break from this person. Yes. And you're not getting it. So there's a number of complexities here. So first of all, because your partner is involved in the community in the jam space. And because he's also says, hotmail, I think it was a good move to try and get your partner to talk to him first because ultimately that is who he would listen to exactly what I was gonna say. I think that is a good true effort turn. We also search question for clues that this person was making other people physically uncomfortable or unsafe in the community space. We got none of those clues. We got a lot of signals that he. He is annoying. And then you said he takes up too much space in your question was is telling this person that take up too much space clear enough to get them to knock it off. No, no, not at all. That is not clear at all what you mean. I understand what you mean. I mean, I can assume you mean that they take over conversations or they're rude or disrespectful. They took over people or they give unsolicited advice and feedback when it was completely not necessary. I can infer what you mean by that, but to someone else who's doing these x. not at all. They would immediately turn it up a notch, especially theater kid. If you're telling them to be quiet, they're going to. They're going to be louder. Yes. I mean, in all of these behaviors and again, we're, we have to move forward with the assumption that he's doing things that are annoying uncomfortable that make people feel small, but that are not like criminal and that are not easy to address because these are things that society said, yes, please do this. Our world produces white men who are unnecessarily loud and think that everything they have to say is interesting. Portent. That's what we do. He might think he's a leader. Yes. He might think he's like the same level of zoo as as a leader in this community. I, I'm going to say there's almost no doubt that he does not feel that way. His assumption is that he is special important and correct, and it is backed up at almost every turn in his life because that is what the world is, and this is in a way that you will actually never truly understand. So keep your expectations low and be more cautious as a group when you invited new people because the behaviors that you are asking him to address, they seem to be largely microaggressions, and you cannot take responsibility for training him out of that. It's like a lifelong course of study. Exactly. And your partner has done the work and you chose well? Yeah, could job. Yeah, he has not chosen to do the work. You cannot force them to do it. Yeah. And you said they take up too much space, so if you do decide to sit this person down, have a talk, explain why this isn't working out? Well, you have to be extremely specific about what is not. Working, you cannot go to someone and say, you talk too much. They'll be like, no, I don't. Or why would you? Why are you trying to silence me? You need to say, hey, last night when when we were having rehearsal and we were trying to make everyone focus. And instead you talked about this before five minutes or you came in the room while we were doing our her. So that was really inappropriate and it really it really got everyone. Off course, I needed to never do that again. Yeah, you have to list times and dates of the misbehavior and be ready to recite it at them, like a litigator in court, right. Oh, I need. Is you to pick up xylophone, but you decided you needed the sousaphone instead. But as a group, we needed the silo phone, like things like that? Yeah, I gen- I found percent agree with you because again, he there's almost no way he has any understanding of his actions whatsoever. And now that your roommate is dating him and she's also in the community or she not in unclear. So I say that she probably is in the community. That's probably how they met, or she's at least Jason to the community. His behavior has been rewarded with closer relationships. He's getting. A lot of feedback that he's doing fine, I know. Oh, so when you, if you want to be the person or invite your partner to be this person, again, if they sit on this person and talk about what's going wrong, don't Dettori allies. No, you can't say last night you burst into the room while Janine was practicing her solo, say Janine was practicing her solo and you came in the room and interrupted and you didn't apologize. And it really throughout the dynamical and I need you to knock or not come in when we're practicing. Yeah, and also dude, I'm on that dude. This is a, she her, but she her listen, you're not perfect. Are you white people of color? Friends are absolutely putting up with your intense call Cassidy. Yeah. Yeah, that's another side of the train. It's like, okay, you're annoyed with this person, but you're super stupor, super annoyed because you see them way more than everyone else your like your meter for tolerating them is very low. That's also true. Yeah, which sucks. But it also means like you need to talk to roommate, but I, I, I guess, where I was going. That statement is more on the level of I want you to approach this topic. Not with this feeling of I am a woman and it is my job and full blah, like I am oppressed. I want you to go in with a y'all dude. I fucked up to. And right now you are doing more loud, fuck ups and you're doing them near me. But I, I'm not saying you've forgive people for being idiots. I'm not saying that you have to accept people who like do microaggressions upon you. When I m saying is please don't feel so self righteous about this because you have privileges that causes you to micro aggress as well how much mindfulness you have like you. You're fucking up to buddy. Yeah, yeah, that's a really good point. Like I do want the esker to consider to zoom out and consider their own privilege here and never stopped considering it. Yes. Especially as a leader in this of this musical tree group or whatever the fuck you're. Gosh, now that you said that like that John, it makes me think about how nebulous this group is because it's not a band. It's not like a show that you guys put on. This is a jam session. You're all should feel free to express yourself. And this guy's accent expression is far louder that other peoples it may be that he doesn't suit your gear. Yeah. I mean, they're upsetting the dynamic, right? If he's the odd ball out. I mean, you don't have to kick his ass out, I guess. But I think that making clear that he's the only one and also everyone else in the group has been accepting of this behavior along is this for years in this is a close knit community man. People need to also speak up for themselves and not saying that you don't have the bulk of their sponsor ability here as a leader, but we're talking about a jam session. You know, you're not like the the, what's it called when you have the drum major, you're not a drum major, you're not the band director. You know, you're just somebody who has been part of the group for longer than him. You are a community leader, but if you don't have the backing of your community, this isn't going to work. I think you need some backup as well. And you saw that out with your partner at first, but it seems like you tour the only one doing the work, and I think other people need to speak up to, and let's go to be really hard create tension with your roommate, the roommate of forgot about the roommate. Yeah, the roommates hard. So. So how do we want to cap off the talking about the band? So. Okay. So first of all, great that you're taking responsibility. You are the band mom, awesome to remember how nebulous this is because it's not. There aren't clearly defined roles here and three. Yeah. I mean, conversation has to happen, and you are right to assume that he probably doesn't even have the words to describe the behaviors that he's exhibiting in the next time. This person does something obnoxious. Let's say they interrupt while someone else's talking or they, I don't know, jump on stage while someone is working hard on something you need to. Pair and be ready to say, stop it in the moment. Yes. And the times in my life, I've had to tell people to knock it off in the moment has not felt good. Right. But it felt good later. Yeah, not always. Sometimes it's like, oh, I could have really handled that better or that was really messy or like, oh, I raised my voice. And really, I wish I, I wish I had been like this calm cool leader like Dumbledore it is not going to be easy to do it no matter what. So maybe practice in the mirror, hey, Paul, please don't interrupt, hey, Paul, working on this right now, you gotta find your words. And sometimes you have to say the thing, say it, say it say, say it to Paul, Paul, please stop saying on them all stop. Paul. But I love to Paul is my favorite thing to do. I don't know why all you suck. I'm up to. Clarinet all loves to suck fall of two clarinet beyond talking about it in the situation. You know, what's interesting to me is I like to always start off these conversations and these thought experiments about annoying people. With the understanding that they probably don't want to be annoying. They probably don't wanna be shitty and they don't wanna make people feel uncomfortable, and they have no idea what the shit there do. Oh, man, yeah, trend. That's good. That's good. Okay. Maybe you should be harsh to Paul, but also maybe you should go into this with interesting that if the roles were reversed on Paul to tell you this in like a nudge secret, like, hey, just so you know, when you do that, Sarah gets really sad, so don't you that. I really think that the asker is going to know which direction we'll be better for Paul and for their voice specifically for me, just thinking about this. And honestly, the only reason why can think about this as such clear terms is because I'm not in it, and I'm not actively angry at Paul right now. I'm starting to get angry, and I'm also getting a little angry with you or not. But it's also kind of like, hey, Paul, listen, I feel like you don't know you're doing this, but every now and again, you'll kind of like talk over or be a little too loud or tickled little too much space, and I don't think you know that you're doing it. So I kinda wanna work with you to make sure that you fit in a little bit better here and that you make people comfortable because I think that's what you want. I think you want to be better part of this group and you're kind of acting like a leader, which I love that you want to take initiative. You say that even though you don't. Yeah, nobody wants all the taking issue compliment sandwich you. Yes, Paul, you have great hair. Your personality sucks. I love your shoes, your paddock clarinet. It could be an again, ask her. You're going to know what feels right for you, but it could be, hey, I think we can work on this together. Would you want me to kind of tip you off on you're doing something like this. This is like, this is something I brought up. I swear to God. And our first like few months during this podcast is when maxima hit a conversation in the Star Trek museum where he was like, if I ever pull. All-male bullshit. Can you give me like a safe word? And I was like, oh, what was the safe word? Married? Blueberries. That's what it was. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Again, you may not want to put this much work into this and that is a hundred percent understandable. But let's assume that you do. We want to explore all avenues of solving this problem. You could blueberries him. You could ever say for, yeah, you could have a safe facial expression because maybe you're playing your your saxophone. Oh, like you turn your head tonight is down or up up down down, maybe give thumbs up. There's nothing cooler than giving a thumbs up while playing the sex phone. Oh, oh, Jen. Yes. Yeah, I think that's what you have to do. Thumbs up or down to Paul while you're saxophone it. If this is not an avenue that you've tried to go down, try it if possible. This may not be possible, right? Add some humor freight laugh about Paul to yourself. He's an idiot. Paul's doing the damn Paul thing again, Paul, your polling again followed. There you go. Paul Hammett Paul, I have a friend named Paul and in this is very. Fun for me to think about because he's the most mild man, I know who you're talking about Seattle Paul. Yes, he's very mild mannered. He loves football. He's the most mild-mannered Paul to you. Those things. Don't they together. We do they to you, are mild mannered, football fan. I mean, technically, I just said there was one in his name is Paul? Yes, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't. I don't know anyone wanna day my friend, Paul Email me who pulse great falls sh- everyone should date him. The roommate in this question should date this new honestly, please replace your Paul with mine. Yeah. So the second part of talk about this roommate thing. This is actually trickier because, okay, you don't want Paul on your space, right? So can you, can you talk to your roommate? I, I don't know about this, but I'm just going to try this idea. Unforeseen is. Can you talk to your roommate and say, we have a hard time with Paul at rehearsals, it's really trying and draining and requires a lot of my patients to have him here all the time because I see Paul a lot and I'm like a community leader in the space, and I have to manage him and to come home. It's like an odd dynamic for me, John. I really like that. And honestly, I wasn't even thinking about it in those terms. So I'm glad you said that out loud because it. Could very well be that the roommate doesn't know how bad shit is. I kinda got from the question that they have an idea of it. Yeah, but I do like the idea of the benefit of the doubt of, hey, you're dating this dude, so you probably don't know how knowing he is in this musical situation. He may be perfectly courteous to you when you're doing sex. But for me when he's doing sex, not as good. Brilliant. Thank you. Try to move a so so here's, here's the other part of the this is really a lot to ask your friend, defend their partner. Oh, God. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot to ask if someone. Yeah, especially if you've already established that your partner can come and go as he plays it, right. Like that's it's unfair in there is yes, it is unfair just in general as well. Like I know that your roommate likes your partner and he's kind and he's wonderful. And we've had this very Ingela. I like that you're like, but my partners. Cool. And it's like no worse. You think that she probably thinks partner school to right. She probably thinks like, okay, we'll maybe he's a little bit loud. He's so much fun. He's so smart and he's got cool ideas and like, does she want to be around for game nights and stuff? Please have the perspective of you love your partner. She okay, so horse, they seem extremely sensitive consider and they probably are probably just started banging and like the honeymoon phase of the banging period is now just beset upon them. Right? Yeah, like it's it's not the same. Here's something that sucks. You will have to have your partner come over less if you want her partner to come over less and that is the end. Oh shit. That's right. That's right. That's right. Your your partner cannot sprawl out in the living room all weekend if her partner can't. Yeah. And it's not a matter of, but my partner so good and her partner so bad. Yes, we get it. We know you like your partner, but that is what the contract of being a roommate is about is that you're leaving spaces are shared. He is. Now, part of her living situation, he's part of her life. And if you want to change the rules, then you have to change them for both of you. That's true otherwise, with your partner. Yeah. Otherwise you really headed for trouble, honestly. Yeah, you don't wanna lose this friend and I would say that it got if there's a top five, easiest ways to lose a friend, those rented five days or whatever one is is hating their partner beaming to their partner, putting restrictions on their partner when there are no restrictions on yours. I don't see any way that works out that doesn't lead them to feeling very bitter for not saying Paul's and bad. He is Paul pulse while the douche, but your roommate has done nothing wrong other than having terrible taste, which is not something that you can control. Unfortunately, you cannot sue her for that. I've tried. I've tried to some friends who date people. I don't like I serve them papers. I show up at their door and ring a bell. And I'm like, I'm here. I'm here to to sue. This is my deposition. I don't like him, he's what are you? What do you say about that? Bad. 'cause what? It's never worked funny because it's one of the, I'd say of the category of questions that we have to set aside because they're the only answer is you can't control who your friends like that. The category of reference partner sucks that he will ask about their friends, shady partner, all the time all the time. Yeah, that's one thing. I never thought what happened in adulthood, but is it happens all the time. People marry garbage people. I mean, garbage people get married. Sometimes do your friends, isn't it the worst, the worst. It's actually the worst. So. Okay. We are to talk about the inclusion of the jam session, which is there are a couple of ways you can go about this. You kind of need the backing of more if your community, if it's just you and your partner. I think it also seems like an insular problem that is only related to you because he might put together like, oh, her partner shocking to me because she doesn't like me, oh clarinet, all those that even play the clarinet. Paul probably play something cool. Like the base. Yeah, you know. Polls probably really hot. You think so. I think Paul's hot and I think that society has trained him that his hotness means that he can do whatever he wants as well. That's correct. EV, all everyone will laugh at his jokes. Everyone will like when he's loud society is more forgiving of people that are entertaining in hot. Yes. If Paul is even one on a to their leg up, one hundred percent. So yes, I guess what sucks is that the first part of your question is a lot clearer which is if you are kind of the defacto leader, you're right. You can take some responsibility for this. You are also correct that he probably does not have words to describe the problems that he is causing, and he doesn't know that their problems gen when you said he probably thinks he's a leader to holy shit. He probably thinks he's been there money years. He probably thinks he's setting the example that if he doesn't step up, no one else will yes, and he's wrong. He's wrong, but he's also not getting a ton of feedback that what he's doing is wrong. Yeah, I mean, so now he may even I know we're going back into part of this question again. I'm thinking about this in terms of, okay, so, oh God, I can't believe I'm gonna say this, say it what? What? What? So you ever isn't an improv class? Yeah, gotta hate me. So I don't hate you. I like you so much. Thank you. One of my favorite things you've ever said about improv class was you were like we mostly just roll around on the floor. We do. It's great though. I mean, like it's there is something very freeing and very, like psychologically satisfying about having no inhibitions at all. I mean, my entire refuge in life is comedy and comedy writing. So I pretend I don't understand, but I do, I do. And this is what not what I was going to say. But when you said like refuge comedy, he probably sees this as a safe space for him to be him and loud and creative, and this is who he is when he is that way. Yeah, he probably is the most himself. Oh, God, isn't that heartbreaking? Yeah. Oh, yeah, pulse, terrible clarinet. So here's the thing about Paul. Paul reminds me of a young woman in my improv class who is she's totally nice. There's nothing wrong with her like, like, I'm going to tell you a story that might give you a bad impression of her, but let me be very clear that the mistakes she's making are not like terrible. So in improv class in an improv in general, as we all know. Yes. And so when a situation is presented on stage and you are and you are entered into it, you have to agree with everything that is going on and continue the scene together. Make sense a lot of times in improv and an improv class or an improv performance. You will have actors that continually come in and out of the scene because part of improv is learning where your places and what what your role is sometimes, especially in classes, there will be improv who insert themselves way more than other people, and it can give you the impression that they think that like they're hot stuff and they should be. They're all the time. However, I had this conversation with the woman who was the top insert her of herself into situations. And her opinion was that everybody was way too timid and she was saving the scene every time. Oh, all may very well think that he's the savior of your jam session. He might think he's the glue or let it feed, doesn't act while no one else will. He's, he's the fun one and that like no one will have fun without him or that if he's doesn't act this way, people won't loosen up. And these are like things that are ingrained in the back of his mind. He's not at delay thinking Helmand get these people to be cool today, but kinda. But but the good news is this is that if that's how he feels one, it could be addressed by saying, like, here's how you can actually help and to. He may need to learn to trust other people in your damn session. He may need to learn that if he doesn't do the solo, someone else will have the opportunity to do it. So. Approaching him as, hey, you can help this situation by acting a different way might be a good move. I like the turn. I also like that you share the story about improv class because it's a good reminder that a lot of groups have people like this. Yes, DND. Yes. Work meetings? Yep. This is a problem everywhere. Like an maybe if you ask your friends outside of the gym session, like, what do you will do about a someone that's just like really inserting themselves too much in group or dynamic? 'cause like people will have things to say, Chen, man, you blew my mind because I bet Paul may act similarly in work meetings. I would think so, that's. I mean, it doesn't seem like he turns it off. Yeah, so so everyone probably hates. Yeah, there's just there's a lot of layers is going on here. Do should we in conclusion the ship? So the two questions, how as a community leader, can I talk to him about his behavior? One bear in mind that he probably doesn't have the language to describe the problems that he's creating. He may not think he's a problem. He may think he's a helper. He may think he's a liter you are now going to disillusion him quite a bit. Also remember that you to have flaws. He has the privilege of being probably hot MRs white male. You have other privileges. Maybe you're able bodied maybe you are not chronically ill, maybe you are cyz, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. Bear in mind and think about the way that you confront your own privilege and think about how difficult it can be for you to do that. And as hard as it can be an as little as I want to say this try to have a little bit of sympathy with Paul. I know. I know it's hard. I know it's hard to say it, but sometimes that's the only way forward is I know. I know it would be so great if Paul was a straight up bully because then we would tell you get him out of there, remove him, keep the other members of the community safe and happy, but from what you said it sounds like Paul's just frustrating and difficult life was full frustrating and difficult people. You know, you're probably difficult sometimes I certainly am same when I'm not playing Spidey. I am difficult around Jen. Let's get you back to your video games. I, I should do some work today to buy work. I mean, saving New York that Dior absolutely needs to be saved. What's fair, ask of me of your roommate in this situation. Well, listen, what's fair to ask your roommate is parody with the situation that you have with your partner. You will always like your partner more than you like Paul and regardless of how kind and wonderful in your room may agree with you this your partners. Great, great and wonderful, but she's not fucking your partner. She's fucking Paul. She's fucking Paul. I'm so sorry about that. Don't picture it. Please stop thinking about it. Now we're all thinking about it. He doesn't have his clarinet when he's fucking her. I promise you. So as shit he has. This sounds you are already kind of on the right path with that. Yes, state your partners. But when you say, hey, I need him around less because he bugs me because of this situation, it would be fair of you to also put the same limitations on your partner. The sucks. This sucks. The sucks also again, I know kind of mentioned this earlier, but we would love a follow up because again, we don't fully understand what Paul's behavior is. We hope we got it, right? Yeah, we had to do some some inferring. Yeah, and I would love to know how correct our assumptions are. I think you need a new hobby. That's not this musical thing, but that's just me being judgmental. Have you considered cross-stitch? Woodworking woodworking is very cool, apply it. We're working in quiet. Well, doesn't involve other people. Taling wiggling wittling of driftwood. Videogames video games can be very quiet to just not. We're just not where other people are instead of talking. They're singing. God. It's so funny because Jenin I hate theater kids so much, but I am a hundred percent like I was theater kid in base and you have a beautiful singing voice. Thank you, but you don't say thank you think your share. They'll say, has been friendship. Anyway, this has been friendship in Jenin Tren God. If you want to follow us on Twitter, you can do friendship. If you want to complain about Paul, you can also do that Email us at friendship, ING podcast, gmail.com. They he'd in permanent for editing. Thank you to Molly Lewis for think for thinking for singing. I mean, she thought about lyrics saying them, thank you. Thank you to learn Gallagher for designing. Thank you to Alex Cox are podfather and audio, daddy, and thank you for listening. You welcome for talking. What's it called when you think about your, what you do? Self reflection on. Okay. Let's one of them mindfulness, mindfulness.