Recapture the Rapture: Biohacking Sex, Tantric Breathwork, Plant Medicines For Orgasmic Enhancement & Much More!
On this episode of the Ben Greenfield Fitness podcast the best lack. All conviction. While the worst are filled with passionate intensity. And you can trick yourself out. So it's almost sort of like gas brakes and steering can all be controlled by varying the rate volume depth and even content about? We are needed at full strength and we can't be at full strength if we're limping and crimped and collapsed and contracted around our trauma. Help. Performance nutrition longevity. Ancestral living biohacking. and. Much more. My name is Ben Greenfield. Welcome to the show. Well. Well, well, today's episode is interesting slash probably not safe for work because we talk about the existence of the practice of making babies and how to dramatically upgrade the pleasure that one might derive from said practice as a matter of fact, after recording this pretty fun episode actually with my friend Jamie Wheel I got a hotel room a couple weekends later with my wife. And we proceeded to have an amazing seven or eight hours digging into just about everything you hear described on this podcast from different nitric oxide and breath work and tantric protocols. Yes. Including the use of with it's it's been quite some time since I have since I have purchased whipped cream canisters, balloons, and crackers on Amazon and done little NAS so to speak. To some of the Microsoft plant, medicine protocols that we discuss too. Yes. Even nipple clamps and I believe that's the first time. I've ever said Nipple clamps in a podcast introduction. We had a great time. No, and honestly you know I love to explore all sectors of. Human Physiology and biology. We're all adults that we talk about this stuff. I believe most people last I checked like to orgasm some people like to do it multiple times in one period of time and you're learn all that stuff on today show. So hopefully, I've given you enough of a of a teaser pun intended I suppose in this case for you to sit back and listen to the rest of this episode, which is brought to you although for such a venture as I've just described, you named the caffeinated version, the brand new kion DECAF coffee if you struggle with. Caffeine if you find, it affects your sleep or you just love the taste of coffee anytime of day but don't want to disrupt your sleep patterns. Then you should know about the most delicious purist DECAF coffee that now exists we have a special water processing protocol. We put our DECAF through I. Don't know the exact percentage, but basically, there's barely any caffeine in there at all compared to most other DECAF brands. 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This podcast is also brought to you by my friends at Juve. Juve does red light therapy I. Suppose that goes quite fittingly hand-in-hand with today's podcast about sexual performance because not only do I use juve for my hormone balance because it can induce the late excels in one's testes to up regulate testosterone production but a photo bio modulation, which is the science behind a which these devices were actually created can do wonders for college in for sleep patterns for thyroid for just overall. Recovery and rejuvenation use a pulsing technology which gives your cells an extra boost of recovery. Some people use them to wind down at the end of the day. Some people use them to wake up like sunrise at the beginning of the day. I, use mine all the time in their new devices are sleeker. They're twenty, five percent lighter. They have all the same powers, the original devices, but they've intensified the coverage area. You can stand as much as three times farther away from the device and still the recommended laser light dosage. So they've upgraded the setup for all their new devices over at Juve with quick and easy mounting options to. And so if you want to get your hands on a juve with my special code, then what need to do for the exclusive discount is jail oh viva dot com slash and use Code Ben. THAT'S JUVE DOT COM J. O. The v DOT COM Slash Ben Apply Code Ben to your order. That's a limited time only coupons. So check it out and enjoy your red lightness. Let's go talk to Jamie. Well folks it's been a little while since I've had today's podcast guests on the show. He joined me years ago when he was talking about this book called stealing fire how Silicone Valley the Navy Seals and maverick scientists are revolutionizing the way we live and work, and whenever I talked to this cat, I always ask myself why haven't I had him on the podcasts more recently or more frequently because he is a wealth of knowledge on both the psychological and the practical aspects when it comes to kind of. Tweaking of optimizing performance and flow states, he has just written a really great new book that I have seen bits and pieces and previews of and that I'm waiting with baited breath to get my hands on the full copy of it's called recapture the rapture rethinking God sex and death in a world that's lost its mind. So aside from having kind of. A shitty title I. Think It could be pretty good book. It's actually a great town recapture the Rapture A. my guest. In case you didn't guess his name is Jamie will in Jamie is a peak performance expert The is this is what he does. He engineers people to achieve a flow state in this book is really about kind of engineering. Many. He Donald. Experiences including sex and Just you guys know the thing that that I kind of made me want to get Jamie on the podcast was hearing him talk about some of the more advanced ways that he hacks the the flow experience during sex, and so I want to dive into that today show, which means if you're driving in a minivan with your five children, this might not be the best one to listen to right now at least. But. I also want to get into some of the other aspects of his book because he works with professional athletes who are in the NFL the NBA, the MLB Google Goldman Sachs iskoe y Peo- US Naval War, college special operations, command I mean this this guy is really in demand so. Extremely privileged to have on the show Jamie welcome man thanks for having been. Yeah for sure. So. This book recapture the rapture. What exactly you know if you were if you're hanging out with somebody on an elevator for a disproportionately long period of time, how would you describe this book? Yeah. Well, I mean the simplest is it's kind of the what turned out to be the sort of required sequel to stealing fire. So if stealing fire was you know obviously conceived about five years ago written about three years ago saying, Hey, it really feels like there's this groundswell of people tinkering with consciousness for all sorts of. Positive outcomes and then of you know after that, we had Michael Pollen. We've had them sort of the psychedelic renaissance, Tim Ferriss and everybody else you know it's it's become sort of very much more visible that those kinds of state seeking experiences are becoming more normalized. But then in the three years since the book has come out, it's it's very much seemed like a children's crusade like a bunch of people are just breaking the sticks off bottle rockets and still hoping they'll go where we point them. So this book recapture the rapture is an is basically trying to answer the question of what happens. Once we steal fire, how do we not burn? Down the house. Yeah. Well, we'll be example of somebody. How did you describe it? The analogy of the of the bottle rocket Oh, just breaking the sticks off them and then still hoping that you need, you can hit their what will be an example of that going on right now that you think is is occurring this. So called breaking sticks off bottle rockets well, I mean, you know it's it's an easy target at this point it's gone a little dormant in the last four or five months of quarantine and this and that but basically the entire west coast Psychedelic Kaci Benny Man Neo Contra. House ceremony sound Baath culture, which just thoroughly shat the bed. You know and and crawled up its own asshole and you know in a paroxysm of instagram narcissism. and. You know versus Shit we have been grounded access to you or simply hijacked the keys to the Kingdom. You know the kinds of initiate Tori experiences and Yeah. A non ordinary states, revelatory stays that used to be the domain of monks, martial artists and and mystics, and now we just have people with no learning no dedication no commitment sourcing from those places and then promptly putting in. The ditch and not just in the ditch where like a Tibetan Lama would have cautioned you or a zen lineage teacher would have said Hey. Watch out for this. You know not even the kind of nuanced and subtle ones literally like smack DAB back into the same ditch that their baby boomer parents put it in forty years ago. You cultivate tendencies magical thinking addictive obsessive behaviors disconnection from practical realities. Cavalier approach often in my opinion bastardize use of plant medicine just because it is considered a noble and laudable thing that people are using as an excuse in many cases to get high and say that they're finding themselves on the weekend you know in their whatever New York condo Shaman but yeah, I I. I agree I. It's At least still cova up pretty out of control. I had to laugh at one of our mutual friends who has a very well known podcast of his own and he was just casually describing a thirtieth birthday for his girlfriend down in Kabul where they were engaging quote unquote party medicines. I think we I was like you. You mean, you mean Ketamine and ecstasy. Let's let there's there's not actually a category called potty medicines. Right and neither should the two phrases or two words. Party medicine necessarily go hand in hand that often. I'm always going to raise an eyebrow that. But but when we talk about these plants, obviously in the book stealing fire in my last interview with you, you did talk about as you've just alluded to how they can be used to hack the flow state to a certain extent as many of the other things that you talked about in you know stealing fire, for example, such as tweaking, respiration and breath work or. You know, for example, paying attention things like like Bagel, nerve town the adventures. especially extreme adventures, etc but. When when it comes to what the flow state has to do with sex and with partner connectivity. Can. You explain what? What the science behind that is or why that's important to think about? Yeah for sure I mean I mean. You know if you'll if you'll indulge me for cyclists of five minutes is setup as a wide these things might matter because in in writing stealing fire my initial thought was saying, Hey, extras like peace states no matter how we get there could be meditation breath work psychedelics, sexuality music extremes, extreme endurance sports you name it they take us literally ecstasies outside of ourselves outside of our waking conscious ego based identity and that when we do that, that's generally Supremely enjoyable but often quite profound and productive and helpful. And what I realize is that as I was reading that book, it was nominally about ecstasies but every time I would cite an example I would always be pointing to hey those peak states actually help us heal and those peak states actually help us connect and collaborate with each other. and. So then I realized it wasn't simply just you know an advocacy that we should go to the mountain top. It was actually much more like a full triangle param ID and that while ECSTASIES is at the top of the pyramid cusses deep-healing and communitize profound connection with other people are the bases of that pyramid. And it's feels like that is the sort of that is the geometry of our life. You know if you put those three things into motion, they become a spinning flywheel and we're forever seeing the highest heights remembering what we forgot using that inspiration information to come back down into our mortal fallible lives and bodies fix where we're broken. And do it in relationship and connection to each other. So that really felt like that's the sort of flywheel of becoming like like it's worth. We're we're always cycling through one of those three places and and if we get to pursue it sincerely enough over a long enough period with enough dedication to kind of our homework to acting on the things where shown that ideally at some point we become. Twice born humans we become homegrown. The Greeks call it throw bows the the most obvious visual images is Leonardo's truyen men someone balanced hadn't hot balanced masculine. Feminine. Balanced left and right and up and down where we're integrated, and we're poised to be expression bitter full expression, and and before we fully present I think that was a part of stealing fire that you talked about when you talk about the. That sense of being an individual and I you know gets replaced with that feeling of being a collective we and the community that you described is almost ecstatic state of unity but. From what I understood from your previous book stealing fire you only get that when you're also completely fully one hundred percent present. So we're talking about kind of the kind of the the the combination of ecstasy being in flow state in extreme presence allowing for some type of a communitize relationship between you know in this case, for example, to individuals who might be making love for example police. And you figure if there's a test case for, can we get along with another human? The first one is the diode. Hair or the partnership, specifically a romantic or sexual punish him. Because if we can't pull that one off because evolution effectively through the kitchen sink at that one you like whether we want to or not whether we know how to or not avalon has primed us to procreate. And when we do, there is a cascade of neuro chemistry that creates Perr. Bonding we literally sort of. To make love. Not. The actual act of coupling but literally active synthesizing the neuro physiological profile of affection and attraction and connection. So does feel I mean a it's a good test case if we can't figure out how to love the ones were with, we're pretty much as far as like trying to figure out well, peas. and. There's also this notion of all the evolutionary imprinting just to kind of finished the the the. The title recapture the Rapture is twofold. One. Is because you know there's Yates the poet right road that famous palm, the second coming you know an and in that in it, which was by the way like the most gould poem two. Thousand Sixteen like things fall apart the center can hold like really raw. The Wall Street Journal did a semantic analysis, an uncovered that But. There's another line in the that has haunted me for years, which was the best lack. All conviction. While the worst filled with passionate intensity. And if you look around our well these days whether it's conspiracy theories to not politicians to whomever right the worst are filled with passionate intensity. And they have hijacked the Mike of our collective future. So my inquiry was really well how how do the best of us the rest of us You know recapture our rapture are lower case rapture are healing our inspiration connection. So that weakened take back the wheel. From the nut hatches that are actually driving us towards literally the fulfilment of rapture ideologies and rapture ideologies is not just fundamentalist religious beliefs like isis or Christian. Zionists who want a Middle Eastern war to kick off on Magadan? It's it's techno singular. -Tarian it's people who were saying we're going to upload our consciousness to computers or we're going to. Piss off to Mars. It's any ideology. That HSIEH's the structure of saying the world as it is in fact. But. There's an inflection point coming and we can see it from here. and. When we get to that inflection, point me and mine like my crew, my tribe, we come up roses on the other side of that inflection point like things are demonstrably better for us over the therefore number four pin it. Never, end go off the cliff with no skid marks and never mind the collateral damage. and. So that's the kind of state of the world right now and right now the worst the most passionately intense was. Calling the shots so for US collectively to recapture our lower case rapture, our inspiration are healing in our connection. We have to have some form of technology that is open source that is scalable and that's anti fragile. So open source meaning it's kind of like the wordpress of reality here here's a here's here's an engine that you can use to build your own but you know there's different cultures there's different customs. There's different. Communities and identities there is no singular one size fits all solution and any any attempt to do that. No matter how well intentioned ends in Fascism. So let's not even go there. What's the sort of psycho spiritual equivalent of blockchain? That's configure oil. So scalable, it has to be cheap or free otherwise most people. The bottom several billion will never have a chance to experience it and it has to be anti fragile meaning that when things get worse, it gets better. So. For me. That's kind of like okay. Now, we're now into that situation like how do you heal the world? Via tools that everyone can pick up for themselves and make their own. and. How can we sort of bring a design centered approach to it literally like what would I do that design company do not what would Jesus do w w what would I do? And if you've seen like and I, think in two thousand, fifteen, they came out with their human center design toolkit because they're like, Hey, we design office chairs and design cool. Kitchen implements in snazzy clocks doesn't but the reality is is the way we go about creatively thinking about designing stuff is probably helpful all around the world for a Kenyan village you know or an Indian city or any of these just humans trying to solve the human stuff. So if you figure that out, you're like, okay. If, we wanted to be open source scalable. Then we should. We should for sure and we're trying to heal inspiring connect. Then, we should act as close to evolutionary drivers as possible because basically evolution has encoded us to do these certain things very very strongly. So if you think about it, respiration is a strong one. Right even the idea that something. I. Feel compelled to do every now again, exactly we feel compelled to do it and for anybody that's played with any former breath wake whether it's for Holler, breath work or whatever. You realize you your first crack static apnea. How long can I, hold my breath right? What always happens involuntary movements diaper matic attraction. Running out of oxygen they're not and there is to build up co two, but you're like, Holy Shit. So the first time I feel compelled to breathe I got more or less like forty to fifty percent more gas in the tank. You're that's that's interesting. Kind of weird but you're like, oh, evolution did it that way because if we cut it any closer? We would likely have snuffed it by accident more often than what sustainable rights built in this huge buffer as well as very, very strong incentives to get it right. Don't forget to breathe. Right next in that list sexuality like if we forget to procreate. then. We cease to exist. Right so that so literally, kitchen sink amount of incentive to ensure that with the exception of things like the Kama Sutra, which has a few pages on how or Japanese. Naval pillow books you know or the occasionally sort of body medieval sonnet. I mean most of for sure all primates, all animals, and then you know millions of years of hominoid evolution. We figured out how to do that with no instruction manual. You're like, okay. There's a there there now. So we've got respiration sexuality. And then just a general category of embodiment which just means how. We tune in shape living in these skins of hours in these meet suits, directly effects, bodies, and brains, shape hearts, and minds. So there's all sorts of long levers there and Bagel tone and other Endo cannabinoid system, and other key big metronome. In, our bodies are Kista and then you can think of amplifiers like substances and music. And if you take a look at those, you know what? We would normally call the kind of Big Five. You're like, okay. Respiration Sexuality Embodiment with the force multipliers of substances and music. Literally, the building blocks of all most transformative practices and even underpin most religious and cultural programming. We've ever had not always all at once, but in the in a kind of a mix and match toolkit. And and you know one of the things that you had you had sent over to me that I took a look at it was almost like a matrices for. For connecting a lot of these components specifically during the experience of sex to enhance I. Mean we we already know that there's there's kind of It's almost like this neuro physiological response to orgasm. That'll that puts one into into a flow like trance-like state that often begins to occur. You know do the oxytocin and in the press and release and everything else even even before an. Orgasm but there are there are certain ways that we can actually enhance that flow state or increase the ability to enter that that kind of trance-like state that we might only normally experienced during say like orgasmic threshold or Post. Orgasm. And in many cases and I found that absolutely intriguing when you started to to show me and talked me about some of these aspects of this so-called. What do you call it? The He Dhana Yoga matrices of becoming. I, mean sickly. So so yeah, I mean just just to kind of now now we can connect the connect the dots here, which is that if we have those five tools and could because my assumption is that the renaissance is doomed. Basically is that it's going to be commodified by venture capital and Big Pharma. It will become you know there will be a regression to the mean that many of the most idealistic promises of that of those experiences won't turn out to be the case, and even if it did start work meaning a whole lot of people powering up into goodness truth beauty and taking courageous stands for human dignity, it will get shut down the stroke of a pen. So it's highly fragile. It's highly susceptible to both state. And Corporate Capture So if we want somethin', it's more versatile. We kind of need to build the you know not the anarchist's cookbook. Famous book that was the most stolen book from libraries, which I don't think anymore. Yeah. Maybe not but how to build bombs with this stuff under your kitchen sink Instead instead it's more like the alchemist cookbook. What is a tool kit that anybody anywhere can use with minimal minimally exotic materials or practices that can actually get the job done of inspiration healing in connection so if you take a look at. One of the, there's several threads into this investigation for me but one of them was Rick Dobelin the founder of maps and I were sharing a stage with Jason Silva actually in San Francisco last year, and we were just chatting in between sessions and Rick was like Oh. Yeah. You know our most recent research is showing that the closest analogue to the. Md. Ama. PTSD therapy. So when they were taking veterans and they were taking survivors of. Childhood and domestic trauma and putting them under the influence of the you know the compound and then they were testing them. They were finding high amounts of oxytocin proactive as a present. And then Rick said Yeah you know and that the closest analogue we found is the post orgasmic? State. And you sort of think about that for a second and you're like, wow, you know this is a thirty year tens to hundreds of millions of dollar project trying to get a schedule, one substance through FDA approval and it's going further than it's ever been. It has profound impacts on the people who are fortunate enough to get to be a part of that sanction experience but it's complicated and it's fragile and it's not accessible to everybody and you're like, well, wait. So there's that option or how on earth can we get as many people as possible to that exalted state known as Post Gaz mic? She knows where you're like. Okay. So That's interesting. That's really really interesting and there's a book called love and other drugs by a Yale and Oxford duo. And they basically been making that case they've been saying hey. PSYCHOPHARMACOLOGY and even psycho-sexual pharmacology specifically they they spend time on md a oxytocin and a couple of other compounds can literally be a profound and powerful adjunct to couples therapy to closeness to all of those kinds of things and I don't know if you have you. Do you know Nicole Krauss I've you guys can you come across? Doesn't sound familiar actually. So now make me make me feel a bad about what am I missing out here? We'll know she she's awesome and you should for sure however on your show she's a Kinsey Institute. Former professor there she was at Ucla, and then she ended up peeling out and starting her own independent research think tank because she studies sexuality and shoes actually one. If you probably saw the headlines I, don't know when five years ago when there were some. Era of Ted, talks talking about the addictive nature of pornography. In her lab come out with actually a counter study saying actually it doesn't seem like sexual addiction is actually thing and they'd been actually measuring the physiology measuring the responses and she caught a tonnage shit for that one and then there was another one she did where they literally three D. printed a bunch of dildos had women select versus just like guessing. From, like rulers on a page, what was their preferred peanut size but they actually they actually did you know what did they call it? They said haptic preference. which basically meant rummaging around in a box addicts right pick one you like the best. And what it turned out that women tend to prefer penises that were slightly smaller for their longtime partners like the bigger for one night stands that kind of thing. So Johnson needless to say she has been in which was nominally correlated with higher testosterone, etc. so that's the whole like you know Lululemon Yoga check you know sneaking off from her retreated Ostlund go bang a biker in. COMAL. So meals to stay. She's she's steered into potentially controversial sexual subjects, but she's done it from the place of clinician. And wanted. Most interesting studies at least as far as kind of what I was tracking was the she's been researching the use of women's orgasm as pharmaceutical prescription. So she's literally gone. You know she's kind of reversed what Rick and maps have been doing, which is, can you simulate love via x Exxon Genus compound and can you actually instead make love the internal physiological response? And they're exploring it's used for depression for physical pain alleviation for all of these kinds of things and you're like, okay wow, that's really neat. I mean there there's a ton of taboos as a ton of kind of you know titillation and controversy around this but which is crazy kind of come full circle because female hysteria was once a medical diagnosis that. I think included among other things, sexual desire and female orgasm, and it was something associated with being. Batch it crazy and having hysteria, and now you're saying that you know the the ability for females appeal rayleigh. Orgasm could actually be something that could be diagnosed or could be prescribed for psychological health. Exactly. I think even aristotle went so far as saying women's Orgasms can prevent her from conceiving. Know so so yes, there's a long long story fear that right up to Cardi B. and wet pussy so. But. The point here is simply that. Oh Wow are natural physiological sexual responses can play a role in healing meet you know accused or chemical profile, and if you can get to it via a true diy methodology like sexuality and orgasm the versus a highly controlled rare questionable purity questionably toxic compound like MD, which would you choose? If in doubt, I would say, always go with the endogenous versus the. If there's a way to chew nor tweak our own systems, our own bodies and brains to create more of a substance hormone chemical, whatever it would be that is. Helpful or desirable that's almost always a safer. than ingesting or absorbing something from the outside because our body is mediating it, it's tuning dialing it optimally for us. It's peptides versus steroids, right? Right exactly. Exactly. That's a good analogy because peptides are simply acting a lot of times on the cell service receptor to induce an endogenous release of, let's say something like growth hormone versus juice injecting growth hormone. So you're looking at at more of an enhancement of the indulgence response well, I want to interrupt. Today's show to tell you about nicotine. We're talking about another of other compounds on today's podcast. You might as well throw another one in there because I'm a big believer in the science behind nicotine, which can help based on research studies improve everything from human performance to coordination to memory to reaction time to awareness a lot of nicotine products out there full of crap. But there is a company called Lucy they have gums and nicotine lozenges that's a play. A release dose, formula grams of pure nicotine. It's not just for smokers who want to stop smoking for anybody who wants a little bit of a clean smart drug neutral pick pick me up and this is one of the cleaner gums I've been able to find. Obviously nicotine is derived from tobacco. Nicotine is an addictive chemical proceed at your own addictive risk but. 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Carols just like it sounds beekeepers, naturals, dot com slash Ben, and you get fifteen percent off. If you just go straight to your, I'll no code necessary beekeepers, naturals, dot com slash Ben. Laying down as kind of like a groundwork of framing for this idea of enhancing sexual flow or or kind of like hacking into this sexual experience using some of these these techniques that you outline on the on the sex matrices One of the things that you tackle I is nitric oxide, and by the way for those you who are listening in a link to all this if you just go to, Ben, Greenfield fitness dot com slash recapture that's been grateful finish dot com slash recapture a link to to all the stuff that Jamie and I talks about include talk about including an image of this this yoga. But the the the first thing that you discuss is nitric oxide. For. You when it comes to using that on a practical level I've talked before about using, let's say like you know beetroot pumpkin seed, beet, juice, watermelon extra virgin olive oil the old school hack I used to do and I was bodybuilding backstage. We'd have red wine dark chocolate for enhancing Basil dilation when it when it comes to the nitric oxide component, what are some of your favorite tactics there? Yeah. Well, I. Mean again since we since we t respiration just to get people to super high. End, which is that oxygen and gets all the love. But there's really oxygen carbon dioxide and nitrogen right and and it's that blend of atmospheric air that we are dealing with nitrogen fundamentally in and so we mostly just sort of metabolising auction and spitting out a little bit more co two right. But by playing with the blending and ratios of those, you can meaningfully shift consciousness. You can up regulate yourself if you feeling flat or or lethargic, you can down regulate yourself if you're feeling stressed or anxious. Trip yourself out. So it's almost sort of like gas brakes and steering can all be controlled by varying the rate volume depth than even content of our breathing? and. So one of the things you can do is gas assisted breath work. and. Two of the most interesting ones is is Matt is either radically depleting co two via hyperventilation right? which creates Alkali alkaline blood. He creates the tingles the Techni all of the things that people have experienced if you've done anything resembling. Tropic or intensive. Breath work that can then lead to shifts in states of consciousness including visionary state standoff was, at Johns, Hopkins was one of the early LSD researchers who are actually powering with on a new breath work project at Hopkins famously substituted breath work LSD LSD was was scheduled an got as much or deeper experiences from people just doing that just massively blowing off co two. Into a a HYPO cabinet state. Oh. Yeah. I. It's actually a we'll do that a lot is we have a very weird family my wife and I will do either Wim Hof or tropic sometimes we we actually had an hour-long session last week in which prior to US sitting gazing, talking face to face completing some some some some journaling together being in a space together. We didn't our of whole tropic breath were just laid out flat in our back We also do I gazed with our boys and and we have a twenty to forty minute routine. We do in the sauna where we'll do the breath work and it puts you into this this state where you are indeed, you know blowing off a lot of co two and then you kind. Of Feel as shift slowly into this deep para sympathetic state afterwards, and it's wonderful for connectivity for for gazing and when it comes to nitric oxide are you actually increasing nitric oxide production v like the whole trope Acre or the Wim Hof in addition to blown off the CO Two? Yeah. That's a great question. I don't know I. Don't know that specific question I do know that. I am what am I? What am I I'm dumber than a bag of hammers and basically slow to impress. So basically like there's there's a way to do something I always want to pin it to eleven decide what the fuck. You produce nitric oxide in your nasal passages and your sinuses. So imagine if if you are indeed taking the breath in through your nose and out through your mouth, you would show him a pretty big increase in nitric oxide and then the other thing is that we know that one of the best ways to get rid of Sinusitis is humming like breathing through the nose and then humming because your nose I learned this when I interviewed James Next door who are. This really book called breath. Your nose is one of the few tissues that contains the the same tissue in it as the clitoris in the peanuts it can it can you can have an erection and so when you in through your nose, you increase the air circulation and the vibrations of that increase the production of nitric oxide in the nose and the sinuses and get this Lo Minister Direction. So if you are breeding into your nose and then audibly like Oh. Oh theoretically you're you're creating a lot of nitric oxide. Yeah. I think that was two thousand seven study from the Karolinska Institute in Sweden which was talking about is actually a fifteen times boost in nitric oxide with vibration of the nasal cavity actually. A. Fascinating. fucking hypothetical which I've written about and I had to really tread carefully because you don't want to. You know you just want to get out of your skis on this kind of thing but the idea of. Aboriginal Didgeridoo playing. Circular breathing. So a huge amount of very, very specific. Both cheek and nasal control the continue to create a continuous vibrant Tori drown through the didgeridoo instrument via the is. Almost. Certainly doing that thing right. You're doing secular as nose breathing for ages you're creating an acoustic drown, which is also transcend juicing and your mass an annual vibrant Tori would right up against your skull and cheekbones and Sinus cavity, and so the likelihood that the physiological mechanism. Of that is actually what was driss shifting shifting. Musicians into dream time is really solid and you know once you see that you realize like the Tibetan on Monday pod, my home at the COBB Realistic e Oh, there's a ton of basically psycho magical practices around the world that all involves some short Beiber Tori loop or mantra. And most of them again, other sort of out. which are high able to extend, vibrate and even the Hail Mary. In Catholicism, it's basically an eight to ten seconds eight to ten huts breath court hail Mary Grace Lewis with a blessing. Blessing through Jesus and if you just picture someone in the Middle Ages, you know anybody anywhere at any time kneeling and adopt charged liquid lit votive candles in front of one of the Saint of the saints that you're venerating and not surprised that people could have visionary or state experiences because of that heightened both breath control mechanism coupled with boosted nitric oxide production, and then some form of psychological and cultural state mediated state experience I've seen a deity I've been visited by saying I've had an insight from the ancestors whatever would be is endlessly fascinating to me. You're like Oh shit. Let's just like the cheat codes to like Niro anthropology. Can understand how we've always been doing this human thing together. Right, so so are you saying that that prior to sexist part of four play what you could do as a couple is just sit face to face and do like three to five minutes of Wim Hof breathing through the nose some kind of a or chance on the exhale to increase nitric oxide dump a bunch of Co two and kind of accelerate the passage into that flow state during love that would occur afterwards yet your continued dragging me back to the. And yes, we one hundred. percent. But I think this is. I do feel there's both sorta academic and an ethical responsibility to contextualized both here are the mechanisms of action so that people are actually empowered and have consent and choice they understand what they're doing and how it works, and then also the the human factor because. Without aggrandizing this too much like these are the Chico's to the universe and these has been the most closely kept secrets of adepts for thousands of years usually sharable only by pain of death and virtually no one ever got to use them. So the fact that we're like geeking out on it and it's like, Oh, here's because neuroscience because emory's 'cause oxytocin doesn't. The impact, the potency, etc. Like you can lose your fucking mind and you can wreck your life playing with these hacks they are. Literally, you're basically hot wiring the ecstatic circuitry of a primate nervous system and the question is for good or ill is entirely dependent on how we hold stuff right finished to finish the gas as we got three gases oxygen nitrogen, copying dioxide, oxygen gets all the love. But the other two are actually really quite interesting. You can massively decrease carbon dioxide by hyperventilating what we've just been describing, but you can also super boost it and Kaba Jen. Is An actual gas blend where you actually run seventy percent. Oxygen let's think how does it work percents co two With, thirty percent oxygen. So there's a little bit like scuba divers who will substitute helium or hydrogen that they will substitute other gases for nitrogen so that when you're diving deep underwater, you don't get you don't get no nitrogen causes so they'll swap out a different gas so that doesn't happen. You don't get intoxicated down low and they'll often boost oxygen in their scuba tanks so that you can send more rapid than you don't get the Benz, right? So we're we're just playing with that neck of the woods and and scuba divers were have been way down that road longer than we have. But. You can. You can play with combination and what combination will do is the exact opposite. So with thirty percents co two, that's basically one and a half times what. Seventy percents co two that is massively more. Co Two in your system than you would ever normally have you got thirty percent oxygen, which is one and a half times atmosphere. So you're actually you've got more of the red rich red blood cells than you would ever know what to do with. But at the same time, your internal alarm system is screaming mayday mayday mayday you're suffocating alive. Yeah. But in my opinion like buying a car carbon generators, those are those like seven hundred bucks or so right to. Purchase you to generate that would allow you to inhale carbon dioxide to that extent. I. Would I would question if you might be able to attain something similar with breath work but I don't know. Yeah and well, the thing that I mean I didn't even know about COBB agenda until last year when Dr Roger Walsh gave me his book and it was based it's called higher wisdom and it was just an oral history of the first PSYCHEDELIA renaissance. Two point if you say if you stay renaissance begs the question. But like if you say indigenous use for thousands of years was one point zero and then the nineteen fifties and sixties two point zero and where now living into you know the three point zero going back and seeing what those researches at in Manitoba Ucla at the at at Hopkins were doing in the late fifties to sixties mind boggling they were so ballsy and so creative and I mean like standoff back in Hungary was shooting people with like two hundred and fifty to five hundred. Mike's of Sandoz LSD, putting strobe lights in their face connecting them to e Jeez and Gov skin. And Blasting People Ucla folks were using it for schizophrenic children ages three to twelve. They were using it for college pain relief. In fact, the oncology center had such profound results with pain relief via the LSD twenty five at the time that the director of the hospital basically buried the evidence buried the papers because it was gonNA, fuck their entire business model. Of Pain Management. And so in those stories, I just stumbled across these two three different examples of the use of Kaba Jen as a precursor to LSD therapy and what they were doing was. And actually, it was a Hungarian colleague Maduna of graphs and he had been using it to basically create to prompt epileptic seizures because that was kind of that was the era of electric convulsive therapy and sort of seizure therapy like the idea of like a cold reboot to the nervous system. Then letting people power back into some form of like home static equilibrium basically like at least it's like when your computer glitch ing and you just turn it off and you turn. It back on things work again. So that's what he was using it for and it turned out not to pay out but then the psychedelic therapist adopted it and they used it as a screen, a precursor to LSD therapy. So they'd put somebody under coverage and respiration and see if they lost their shit basically, and if they really really lost their shit than they wouldn't get to go through for the LSD therapy was testing Abba reaction, right? Or could they trigger a TRAUMAS? And the thing that caught my eye was that several patients reported that they had more profound insights in breakthroughs on the cottage and they did on the subsequent LSD therapy and you're like, wait a second that's that's super interesting. So that's carbon dioxide and tweaking at high and low. About supersaturated oxygen that's fairly straightforward. The final one is nitrogen and this gets to your question of nitric oxide. So nitrogen itself is in a not wildly interesting, right but it's two of its derivatives nitric oxide, which is the neuro transmitter in our brains which crosses the blood brain barrier Benson at Harvard called the bliss molecule that's responsible for deregulating stress responses, inducing lots of pleasurable Niro Chemistry and an interior experience. He he he sometimes he called it the spirit molecule I know there's a movie about DMZ of the same name but Benson, was their first. Then there's also nitrous oxide what people would normally think of as laughing gas, right? Like like a like a whippet. Yeah. Both of those are metabolic derivatives of the nitrogen family and interestingly nitrous oxide also breaks down into nitric oxide once it's in the body does. So now we're into breath right now we're into breath as the bottom line is. Any. One of those five things, respiration sexuality embodiment substances, and music are all royal roads. They all lead to a destination just by themselves. The idea here that we're talking about broadly as the notion of stacking or compensatory practice, which is that if you layer these things on each other, you can get further faster more easily. right and and so so that's the jam. and. So basically, you can super saturate nitric oxide and neo forty something I'm sure you're aware of its a superbeet concentrated. Amazon is going to give you a similar effective I agr- in terms of the nitric oxide production. Yes and then obviously all the drugs right? Are there anything with with Sildenafil? Yeah. They're oh, dilatory effects AK the Boehner is actually coming from pumping nitric oxide. Interestingly, there's also been several studies showing that heighten nitric oxide is has antiviral antibacterial elements and can also be. Indicative a good protectant from covid. Yeah. So just interesting stuff and you know both health giving and AH, what's the right word not enervating? Gorging, as the extreme version but Yes Ryan mentally the visa dilatory on preventive and then also mood enhancing and supporting. Yeah and any pre workout that has like Argentine or citrulline in or something like that. It's not gonna be as effective as neo forty or sildenafil such as Viagra or Cialis but in a pinch that or beet root powder or beet juice are also pretty effective in terms of dilation. Exactly. So if we played with Cobb region as this gas hybrid. This notion of nitrogen. which would be nitrous oxide and oxygen in a seventy thirty blend. And what's interesting there? Is that the at Mit I think this is back in two thousand fifteen but they've been continuing the research sins did did some research on on nitrous oxide and found something incredibly unusual in fact lied on the paper said, there is literally no other molecule that interacts with the. System in this way, and they found that after breathing seventy eighty gas blend of nitrous oxide that subjects e Jeez went into for three to twelve minutes approximately, and then after that normalized but for three to twelve minutes went into double amplitude Delta wave while new electric activity and to put that in context in the same way that we could playfully say that like carbon dioxide and nitrogen are the sort of forgotten gases. Breath work you can say that like Delta waves are the sort of red headed stepchild. Neuro Electric Research right everybody everybody pays attention to is because that's where we are most of the time is what you and I are doing. As we talk to each other and everyone listening you know Alpha waves get a ton of love with the sort of meditation and loving kindness and flow states. Beta waves are of that hip nagy drift off to sleep slash super deep meditation. If you're disciplined enough, not not often fall asleep when you get that relaxed gamma waves of those kind of spiky high frequency bursts of gestalt. Understanding the kind of classic. Eureka moments and others a number of again super disciplined meditators can spend surprising amounts of time there. But delta is usually only found in deep and dream less sleep and most sleep researchers are really geeked on. Rem. Sleep right. So so delta, just kinda get swept under the rug, but once you start. And had I not experienced it directly I wouldn't have known to keep looking. You know I would never have come across it. But what actually Delta ends is in certain really esoteric meditative traditions like Zog Shan and certain other ones. People are actually spending time there, and there's also some of the early kind of men who stare at goats. Mind hacking brain hiking stuff that was taking place with the US special forces was also harnessing data for remote viewing and telekinesis another thing. Now, obviously, you know what came of those studies, the knows. But. There is that there there. And so if you go into not nitrogen. That's seventy thirty bland and you find yourself do preparatory breath wigs or not. Now, we can just kind of I'll give the breath what protocol and then can couple it to the sexual practice. Right. So if you really wanted to do this, you would obviously make it as fun and enjoyable as possible. Set up a space, ideally a bed or a padded floors. And no sharp objects in its comfortable. Set up some form of aesthetic foetal focal points dim lighting whether that's candles or or other forms of low low intensity, high quality light setup, some forms of. Almost. Sort of pythagorean geometric alter slash showman slash focal point whatever matters for you don't don't overbuilt it. I think most people's alters these days are usually just like grab bags of Shit they found on the beach or someone gave him in a festival. You don't need. You can literally like own candle thing. Right? It does what it needs to. And then Engage in the now, this is basically a free di- protocol. Just brought to dry land. And it was actually. I. Was I was doing some free dive training with cut crack who was the world champion trainer he trained. Each. David, Blaine and Tom Cruise and tiger woods and a bunch of other people too. But he was giving us these breath protocols and then just at the end of a session, he's like Oh. Yeah and then of course, if you do gas assisted, you know you can you can hold your breath for fifteen to seventeen minutes and I was like wait wait why gas assisted fucking breath work are you kidding me like that? Like that was a Lightbulb so You do the free dive. Prep, which is basically you Vega breathing so that idea of super slow exhales like second exhales toot second holds four second inhales and the intention there is at least that you're supposed to be slowing your heart rate down so. Less. Oxygen. Longer than urine hills. Yeah. And that's signaling to your your nervous system and you're sympathetic response like nothing to see here Jill out right. and. Then engage in fifty hyperventilation is like truly trying to blow out birthday candles. And that the intention of that is to radically lower your co two, which should extend the amount of time. You can hold your breath without having that zero to build up too far, and then give you that insistent urge debris. And then you can take if you really WANNA go depending on how you do this either do the seventy thirty nitrogen bland or if you don't have the capacity with a splitter. Medical oversight whatever again, huge caveat tours here everyone's on their own recognizance don't do stupid shit. But it would be you could inhale too long foles of pure oxygen. So you supersaturated your red blood cell. So now you've got Max red blood cells decrease co two, and basically the capacity to hold your breath for a lot longer than you normally could. And then down the middle of that, you shoot the torpedo of nitrous oxide and then hold that in. In your lungs for as long as you possibly can, and if you want to add A. Meditative. Contemporary. Give you know thought experiment whatever you can play the game of? Inhale that Nitra, that nitrogen As if it's your first breath on this earth like literally as an infant, the world at. Like fully taking it in like it is the stuff of life. Hold it for as long as you possibly fucking can. Until you literally think you're going to die. And exhale as if it's your last breath. On this. And in the meantime, crank mcmuffin jeans and have your special friend Jackie off. Well well, and so when you're talking about the Nitro Oxygen, you could theoretically use something like a like a metric nitrous oxide canister for something like that you know the old crack balloon nitric oxide canister take. I mean if you wanted to kind of do the the Amazon Cheat, yeah then. It would be like boost boost oxygen canisters although I've. Seen I've never been really persuaded. Yeah they sell for for for athletes who are exercising altitude, but you know it sounds to me like really really big picture. What we're looking at here is you're trying to increase oxygen. and you're trying to at the same time increase co two and increase nitric oxide all simultaneously. Yeah exactly and basically. So so that because nothing interesting happens before the forty five second mark and then the universe unfolds in front of you. From forty five seconds to two minutes plus. And so at that point you realized. Okay. So now we're in a supersaturated place I'm in amplitude Delta wave near electric activity and all I've done so far. Well, let's just if we're following the this descriptive. We. Have done. Preparatory breath. We've done gas blended static we've done. Aesthetic Room and space although you're not going to be in it you'll just GONNA be coming back to it. And Music and and music selection is essential like really. Without teens, you're just kind of wandering around in the cosmos with. These. Be like doing ketamine and just staring off into space silence. Much of it. It's the carrier wave to Europe any And and so then you're like, okay. So we have that stock done and you can optimize it and it's amazing. You can also do anything resembling proposed bodywork fascia release spinal mobility pelvic tilt. Those kind of normal good things. Like. Okay. So now, what can we do with the erotic stimulation? So this goes brings us back to Nicole privacy and all that all of that work and you're like, okay. So are ecstatic. Nervous. System Secretary maps one to one with our sexual arousal network. We understand that sexuality has created just you know a majority of human suffering and trauma forever. And it's both tragic in that sense but also potentially magic. So if we say, Hey, evolution is amoral doesn't give a fuck what we love or care about it just simply wants a robust gene pool. But we can reclaim our agency from that we can Larry Untie our puppet strings, and we can use that all that incentive all that encoding as actually rocket fuel, our accelerated transformation. Then, you're in a very different place right now you're into the realm of alchemy. And you're like, okay, knee. Now, how do I cultivate sexual arousal and time? It would those breath work launches. and. So basically, you create a fundamentally what amounts to a partner Yoga. And you can do it. Platonic. You can do it clothes on and you can do all of this stuff and it's awesome and if you simply want to basically roughly double the impact. Then, have a special friend who you can engage in the intimate practices with as well. and. There's a there's a few things that are especially helpful to play with I. Mean One is obviously genital stimulation clitoris headed penis right? That's just sensation that gets loop through our nervous systems as we're doing our breath holds another is vegas. Vegas town. and. The simplest ways to engage bagel tone is basically throat massage and traction gargling and gagging, as well as basically rectal stimulation via like from men like an a narrows prostate massage for a woman to plug anything along those lines, it engages the pelvic floor which engages the pelvic nerve. It also stimulates the value of at its root and for a man can depending on the implement can actually trigger prostatic stimulation for a woman. It can increase g-spot pressure as well like okay. So you have those things online and again doesn't need to be like mucky messy embarrassing just like. Engage in implement you can put your pants back on. But by the way, not to put you in a spot where you sound like you're shamelessly plugging but you think had told me, you're you're trying to put together almost like a like a little online store linked to be able to purchase some of the things that specifically would act on Bagel nerve tone or endorphin dopamine release in the in the sex toy department in this area have you put anything like that together well I mean and to be clear as we, we don't have a commercial interest in this at all this it was literally to good vibrations. In good vibration, just like the online search website. Yeah it's it's. It's a sex positive women's cooperative based in San Francisco, and they just happened to have you know good clean healthy. Access to positive tools. So you just figure everyone look around your kitchen look at your granite countertops, stainless steel stove and this and that, and you're like, how often do we take out microwave and look how many thousands of dollars we've spent on cooking and then you look in your Goodie Goodie drawer beside your bed and you look at the ratty ass plastic shit stuck in the bottom you know like how much do we spend on the tools we spend fucking So I would at a minimum recommend that folks consider investing. You know anywhere from five hundred to a couple of thousand dollars on high-quality premium beautiful tools for better psycho, sexual stimulation, and arousal. So that said, as you get close to orgasm and this is true for women, I think women's pain threshold goes up four times on on a normal orgasmic og with something onboard like nitrous oxide, it can go eight times higher. something. Not dissimilar happens from An. So there is a point where pain and pleasure can get hot wired close to arousal. Right. So you're like, okay. So there's this let's say plus or minus sixty second ninety second window where my brain cannot differentiate pain signal from pleasure signal. It's all coded his pleasure. So now you're like, okay. Very interesting. So you take something simple. Easy to make fun of it but also just whatever it just works, which is something like nipple clams because nipple clamps do a couple of things and you got. You're basically like oh now we're just playing like build a buzz Bingo. Right. There are a little bit painful like if you and I to be both wearing clamps right now we'd notice Well you notice, and of course, nipple stimulation boosts oxytocin. So you're like, okay neat and then it also especially when you take them off and all the blood rushes back excruciating and creates a flood of endorphins. So if you now have high Vega left town going on and you have done your breath work and you're doing your gas assist and you could you put on a banging fucking tune that absolutely drops into the Funky Est.. Ripping butter the tune right as you're Peking, and then your lover POPs nipple clamps engages in any form of sensation contact play basically, but the intensity can be increased. If you want, you can even reach behind your lover's neck, put your thumb and forefinger on the base, their pedal lobes at the base of their skull you and you can provide throat traction massage, and this is not joking, we do not anything that it's compromises airways. We say category don't fuck with it, but you can get basically the combinations of traction and vague on the stimulation with loving. Throat massage stimulation, and then positive vertical traction and massage the oxypan alone and you're like, Oh, my God this just super. This is literally what we call the Sexual Yoga and you're doing you're doing that leading up to orgasm. Yeah and you and you can time it. I mean if you happen to and it's it's a slightly slippery target because the. Fundamentally. Nitrogen and something like ketamine are both dissociate of anesthetics in higher doses or amount so durations. So there is a sweet spot where your sensations are amplified and you're still feeling all the feels. Versus where you are Zude and into very non ordinary. Imagine state, but you're not necessarily as tuned into your body. So physical orgasm can come or go right he doesn't necessarily have to all happen. But if it does happen at the same time, like if you just absolutely get cherries across the slot machine, you can end up and I didn't know this was possible until I experienced it but you can end up literally with orgasms backed up in the queue. That your nervous system hasn't yet had a chance to process. So it's normally have three or four convulsions or whatever your sort of your typical physiological response can be. You can have like six or seven, and they're just kind of waiting until you get through the ones ahead and you're like Oh my God I didn't even know my body can do that. So is you know there's novelty profundity intimacy to be had by sharing these experiences with a dedicated partner and using I mean back to Rick Dobelin and The PTSD Weck with Ma then using that supersaturated state, which usually comeback filled with information and inspiration. You're like Oh my God, I had no idea I've never thought of that. I hadn't seen this that way. I didn't understand that about myself for us or the world or you, and then staying with that and union that incredibly tender space together sort of almost like newborns just hope each other off and the mystery and the wonder of it all. And using this as a and again as as a diy, this is the alchemist cookbook as a method by which. We can defragment systems we can gain insight into our TRAUMAS. We can get inside into our relationship we get insight into our purpose and work in the world, and that we can use those experiences as again back to the flywheel right of Extras Catharsis Community of the inspiration healing the connection we can use this as the flywheel that moves us forward through life. And you know my Is. When you do that it it worked like if you let's say you set this practice up. And once a week, you know a nominal Sabbath practice, you plug your Wifi router. On you block out three hours to spend with a partner. and. You actually do this in a way that's intentional and and grounded in your life. It functions a little bit like an electromagnet. You know how? Like the idea wrapped coil and? Look copper wire wrapped in oil, spin it, and it creates magnetism. And and it can be an incredibly strong magnet and that's the polarity with your partner. Stop Spinning stopped doing that practice and the polarity dissipates and you're suddenly just going through life as roommates again, do the practice and spin it up and it gets stronger and stronger and stronger, and it's literally learning to make love your. Not Mysterious and it's not an not an emotion. And if I'm not feeling it right now, I shouldn't get mad at your tell stories or you know hold grievances or grudges is like we should go make more love and we know how And then whatever issues we have, we still have, but we now have juice. We now have energy to move through it, and it's a little bit like the rising tide lifts all boats half the time if you engage in the psycho sexual practice, if you do this sort of yoga becoming like your grievances just on there anymore and if all we've got is the blunt instrument of talking to each other or hiring fucking therapist. To to trade pity stories and see who gets the advantage like that's a dead end. Is Learning to literally work it out. Yeah now you would, of course, if you're listening in, you would want to take the time this. This is more than just setting aside let's say you're like me apparent with children and my wife, and I will often in the morning calendar making love that night. But then we'll also you know our monthly basis calendar more intensive retreat to say a hotel. With a good sweet. That's you know relatively soundproofed often quieter the hotel where we can engage in practices that are a little bit more like this, like like what we're describing and so a lot of this stuff does take intention takes planning obviously just a few things that Jamie and I have discussed thus far you know like. Nitrous oxide or breath work or nipple clamps or anything else like that. You have to plan ahead and and actually have all the stuff with you when you go and then there are other things that we we didn't really touch on too much Jamie. You know, for example, my wife and I will will occasionally use like a testosterone cream or a nitro-glycerine cream. On the penis or the clitoris, which we found really enhances orgasm before both me and her leave US international oxytocin compound with academy, which is great for sex. But of course, ketamine can give you a little bit of droopy deck. So a lot of times you go through a little bit of Sildenafil or these kind of nitric oxide precursors into the mix. For you as far as any type of gels, creams, topical Lotions, or even plant medicines or synthetics. Are there any that you think as part of this whole? He Donald Matrices for sex anything that you think are particularly big wins or that that you think people would benefit from quite a bit when US responsibly yeah I mean and so now we're we're out if that was the PG thirteen now we're into the kind of the NC seventeen, which is basically I would just say. Don't do anything that is against your miracle moral legal, ethical cultural, or religious guidelines or dictates right so hundred percent agency and full consent as well as. An understanding again that any one of these works by themselves. So if the full stack is a law, you're like Whoa, who who, who does that like What kind of person can like throws a that kind of a kitchen sink of this and the really the only thing you can look around like. Bachelor and Bachelorette parties in Vegas. You know and debauch eyes, wide shut Kinda blow out and you're like, Oh, I'm not that type of person. We're not that type of a couple. Thank you. But no. Thank you. So. There is a question of like bringing. White light bringing intention and dignity and mutual respect and all of these things to terrain that. For All intents and purposes been sort of abandoned to more extreme cadence and station seekers. But now that said I think you know Dan savage the the sex column that the Seattle Times or something. But you know he has that famous phrase of like you. If you want for for a romantic partner, you want someone who's the three gs like good giving and game you know and and ideally that's the stuff of of a lifelong relationship. And I think something else you could say as you want, you want a physician, a functional medical doctor on your team, who is three C.'s which is you know curious courageous and connected. And if you have that, if you have the ability to work with someone who is willing to write you prescriptions and an over an oversee you at your own recognizance, then you can explore things like carbon and nitrogen. You can get a prescription for Sodano. Is that Peninsula Sildenafil here for Solider Yeah for cialis Viagra you can get prescriptions for oxytocin and Kennedy if you're in a state where medical or recreational cannabis noise. Are Allowed then certainly, suddenly those. So at the basic basics, you could say nitric oxide supplementation. Ranging from the beats and the pumpkin seeds all the way to Biogra-, right that's that's a pre. You can also. If it works for you and works in your body in your mind. CANNABINOID. CANNABINOID system well-known Aphrodisiac or censorial enhancers I'm the ancient Greek. Out Imagine, just like Sativa, for example. Yeah, I don't think you'd WanNa be full bore couch lock heroin. You know you'd want to be engaged in invigorated. In a positive way. And then obviously, there's a difference between anything that you would inhale. or smoke. This is what you would injust the edibles. There's the whole liver kidney thing and you know in CB two receptors that kick in in edibles I'd say that kind of a higher level that's slightly more intensive body load and ride, but potentially meaningful for you. And then. Oxygen. Carbon dioxide, nitrous oxide as far as the gas assisted breath work and and that actually right there. cannabinoid plus plus the gases breath way plus the psycho sexual and music is more than enough more than enough. I was GONNA. Say you've you've given you've given me plenty to talk with my wife about for an excellent hotel getaway already. If and then once a month or once a quarter or once a year, you would like to go deeper and you WanNa actually because I mean here's the other thing is like once you figure this stuff out, you're like Oh fuck there's nothing else doing it's not worth drinking wine ending up with a lazy hangover. It's not worth smoking weed in a in a casual way. It's Bailey with you know tripping you're engaging psychedelics that that don't involve some period of time where you're you're putting. An altogether. So that you know a result, you can go two ways on this. You can either go straight decadent hedonist and you never pick yourself up on the floor. You've just hacked you're your own addictions you know or you become actually like white light girl Scout Boy Scout, and you you just super clean and all you do is body work and eat clean food and pure water and juices, and then you put them all together for these these state experiences exactly how active they are. So so then so yeah. So now let's add the next level on visionary or non ordinary states to engage in this space and and there's a huge huge caveat here. Especially for women but for everyone, which is trust is non-negotiable. Consent. Clear. Boundaries clear understandings because if the value of these things is that you are deliberately and ideally skillfully ungracefully looking to lose yourself. And what that means is the equivalent is someone is your partner isn't your fuck buddy they're literally like you're a rock climbing Blair, they're the person at the bottom of that cliff. With your rope and your life in their hands. and. There is a sacrosanct protocol that you never break. No matter what and that is that we are on this rope together until we untie and say off belay. So there's no wandering off in the middle of it. There's no. Breaking the container or your agreements as a couple like it's not on not on us for me to prescribe who gets to do this stuff but it is fair to say that the notion of Climber Belair is is a non negotiable. It's not like how long you're in relationship with the person is your own sovereign choices were all twenty-first-century grownups but that you are engaged in palpable agreements. Is Is. Essential. So that's yeah, oxytocin Ketamine Nasal spray can be Super Rad. If you have a physician that can connect you with that experience the same and then if you want you know md is you know it's got rebranded as ecstasy in the eighties when it became more of a club drug but really it was prior it was called Adam like it was. You know like literally you're in the garden or empathy it's actually less sexy name. So. Again certain system tends to tends to accompany. Olympic for many guys that has been. Prompted sexy, which is often guys going. Clubbing, Anabela in own and other places with Viagra plus MDA. contraindicated and rough on the cardiac system so like you know. Don't do those things or if you do those things know exactly what you're getting into. So, md. May can be a super sensual experience. You could even potentially offer that to a female partner. And then the male partner rides a slightly different. Cocktail. So that you can be more responsive. Sexually. And in Sasha's Shogun, who were the kind of you know ferry godfathers and Godmothers of. All things psychedelic basically tested pretty much all psychedelics that they developed in their laboratory with his lovers and to CB was their hands down all time favorite. Really. Yeah. Hands Down and to me to CB actually lives up to the hype the sort of urban legends of what MDA was supposed to be sexually resting. Okay. Yeah. That was the the book a pickle, right? Yeah. P colony collar to books I. Have I made it like a quarter of the way through the book and still have yet to finish it. I, keep starting. Doesn't stick. I, it's dense. It is what it but like those guys were basically psychedelic triggers like they were. That's who they were and what they did in that part of their story because they were sort of old and whitehead by the time, most people became really familiar with them. Sort of no one can wrap their head around what actually done for twenty to thirty years together. But they covered round and and then you can go into the sort of amax museum dosages, of Silla, Simon LSD and yeah I would say that's that's a decent I mean the obvious. hedonistic ones like coke and methamphetamine. When you read something and vice, you know about chem sex in the gay community or something like that. It's often things along those lines. I. Would just say there's there's a contra indicated and not on that program. As far as increasing insight healing connection, those are often like brain. DOPAMINERGIC just fucking main lines and obviously any of the opioids are decidedly a sexual and. Kate it for all the other health reasons as well but it's not like you're missing anything. Right? You mentioned music couple times whether are there any particular soundtracks that you really like or any spotify lists that you really like? Yes. Hundred percent basically, what we have is a playlist called WOM put like w. h. p. and it's it's on youtube if you just do Jamie wheel and want it's there but I think unless you have like youtube red which I don't know anybody on the planet that actually ever signed up for that thing. I think it gets fucked with commercials but those are all the songs and then some somebody in our community did actually transcribe it to a spotify playlist. We'll put that in the link but basically. Just heads up. There's there's You'll find because of that double amplitude Delta, wave thing and the coming unstuck in time I mean, let's just actually described phenomenology too because that's very much. We've been talking about tactics none of these tactics matter damn and none of them are worth the trouble, the effort, the complexity. If it weren't for where they deliver you. And where it appears to deliver you and again I mean I say this all provisionally this is all just thought experiment and metaphor, but it appears to deliver like it's like You know that vomit comet. That goes in big roller coaster loops through the sky and get like fifteen seconds of. Comment. And they pretend to be spaced, they pretend to be astronauts, right? It's basically the psychological equivalent of the vomit comet except what you're doing to your partner and you kind of take tens because it's you know it can be quite a disembodied experience. You WanNa be recumbent lying down safely sorted. You know all those kind of things is the more you load up. Your. Partners nervous system. And the higher the. COMBINE ECSTATIC ORGASMIC release with the breath hold with everything is the longer they spend in zero g basically floating through. Loosely call the information, layer. And it appears to be a state of hyper cognition, extreme pattern recognition and profound inspiration where you can think anything you want about anything you can think of. With a three hundred IQ. For, as long as you're there. And it is so gobsmack and this is William James founded the entire field of optimal psychology and comparative religion at Harvard via his experiences with nitrous oxide. Joseph Priestley was one of the earlier discovers of it. William Colt. The guy who came up with the Colt forty five actually raised the venture capital because his dad wouldn't fund him. He raised the venture capital throwing nineteenth century wild west, nitrous parties and Winston Churchill. Actually used it all the time to to gain his insights. Now, the challenge with that experience is that most most of those guys Churchill and and James, in particular stopped using it because they're like fuck man, I cannot remember what I see and Churchill actually used it because he got in a car accident in New York he forgot to look the other way crossing the street and got. Clipped by a taxi. And, ended up in the one hospital in New, York, that it was starting to use nitrous oxide as an anesthetic and he's like what the fuck is this. And but he said he said it's hot I have a hard time telling which is more painful. Basically the getting over my broken bones and eggs or having these profound insight slip through my fingers right and and allude me, and so the idea and I thought about that a luck well, is it a dead end right? Because you have to be super careful of these kind this neck of the woods right these. This is the left hand path. This is always been the forbidden fruit and there's a reason that it has ended badly for most people who go down this this road. But I, think that James. You know he quit because he couldn't. He couldn't always remember what he was seeing and he was concerned that he would sort of and the the ridicule or the ostrich vision of his colleagues and I think that there is there's several things I mean one is. An disembodied intellectual. So everything you share with your listeners everything you embody as a person right is extremely more attuned and embodied than those guys where they were heads on sticks right. So we have a lot more of our nervous system in our physiology integrated an able as as a as of vessel. To Hold, store and retrieve information better. The next is is James gave us what James didn't have himself, which is a language and vocabulary for non ordinary states and and the peak heights of human experience. So now we have vocabulary. And the final piece is something as simple as our fucking phones, which is you can lean over blissed out halfway way back from heaven and Mumble it into a voice recorder. And capture. This is taking a quill pen and into China right of course I've I've used them the mini time in that state absolutely. Exactly. Exactly. So we have a better we have better language and vocabulary will have higher embodiment and we have better capture mechanisms. Yeah and and and that allows you to literally bring back quicksilver. Yeah I like that phrase bring back quicksilver. We probably scratch the surface of everything that I want to talk about but but you lay out a lot of this in the book to write and recapture the rapture dude, it's running. So long I'm literally writing the final chapter right now and I'm writing about what is essentially a post modern update to global Christ Christ did consciousness open source religion that expresses all of this in a method poetic form because of at the intersection of terrorism Cronos like my sense is when we get lobbed outside of time in these states. There is the chance for us to sort of become like a death rebirth issue Tori practice it's and it's no longer metaphorical right? You're literally like ketamine nitrous oxide, all of these things that the delta of activity they all have this big. Tone. Coming out of the cranial nerves they all actually deal with A. Deep Brain. Stem reset. That's off the magic of what all these things do and you're like, wait a second. So now we have a biological. Address Ip address for what was always a metaphysical death rebirth experience. and. We can now connect the dots to end. From literally, like we our neo cortex connected to spinal collins connected to erogenous zones. You know we're daycare apes to we're twice born humans but coming anthro pose. To. Take stand right I. mean ideally like it's because it's no longer This. Kind of brings us back full circle to my critique of like West Coast psychedelic conscious culture. We were fixated on transcendence and fixated on avoiding doing the hard things and Fetish Izing some hockey stick redemption where we're all off the hook for digging fucking ditches and taking stands. And I THINK TO BE A. Homegrown human to be fully initiated as anthro pros is to actually gain like McKenna said like don't give into astonishment. Spend enough time in the numerous in those magical rounds so that you've scratched your edge, you've hunted your white whale. There's nothing remarkable about the insight. That we are just starlight up matter in fact, you take that table stakes and you're like holy fuck what's actually remarkable is this seven or eight or nine decades I'm here in this form with opposable thumbs and our prefrontal CORTEX. And work to do and that we actually come fully home like, Dorothy. In the wizard of Oz, like truly like I had to leave Kansas I, had to go chase the mirage of that. You know that big dude behind the curtain who wasn't all that to come back to Kansas and say, fuck? Yes. There is no place like And here I take my stand. Joyfully and courageously with my brothers and sisters. and. So that's the that's the true like recapture the rapture because we are at. The Ascot on you know we are for sure at the end of a chapter who knows whether it's the whole book but like we are needed at full strength and we can't be at full strength if we're limping and cramped and collapsed contracted around our trauma and we can if we're blasted off and Gog allied at the back of beyond either. You know and like blending those two things is is the bliss crucifixion. Shit. I mean I can light my nervous system up and I can experience neck snapping white light orgasm that melts my circuits. Yes, you can and. The burden and the blessing of that knowledge is. All the wounding of the World Yeah Yeah and can can I hold them both without flinching? Yeah. It'll be interesting for me to to read the book specially for me coming at things from a Christian perspective, which is always interesting when I'm when I'm reading your materials and coming at it from them from a different standpoint yet I always find it absolutely intriguing and for those of you listening in I know that you have your own thoughts and comments and feedback on a lot of this stuff. So A. Jamie it's coming out it launches in April and I'm literally unlike final crunch right now. Okay and exactly what it feels like August a recapture the rapture rethinking God, sex and death in a world has lost its mind comes out in April I'm GonNa be reading it hopefully sooner than that. If I get my hands on a review copy elite guys know and I will do a review of it, and then if you guys have your own questions and comments and feedback in the meantime to add because we covered a lot of stuff we haven't really talked about before on the show. Just go to ben greet fitness dot com slash recapture Ben Grateful Dennis Dot com slash recapture, and that's where we'll have shown US everything that Jamie and I talked about also linked to his book on Amazon if you WanNa pre-order it. I love doing. It would be enormously supportive for him. If you WANNA get on and priore the book and it's definitely going to be one that I'm reading cover to cover. Jamie Dude. Those those a lot. I think that gives me quite a bit to work with. Awesome well, dude I think aren't we like scheduled for you to come on homegrown humans on Friday on my ear you have you have a podcast yes or a or an online audio learning platform whatever you WANNA call I'll be on there. I think later on this week. Perfect. When you know I would love actually to talk about that with you. You know like your like your faith and how it all intersects with everything that you do. Absolutely space and optimization, absolutely I would love to discuss that. So there's your preview folks if you. If you hear me on Janey show, that's probably part will be discussing. So stay tuned for that too. All right dude. Well, sounds good. So I guess I'll talk to you in a few days and. Again for those you listening in the meantime you gotta to Greek thinnest dot com slash recapture for the shown us for this episode and Jamie thanks so much for come in for Sherman Great Chat are folks until next time I'm Ben Greenfield along with author and performance expert Jamie Wheel Simon out from Ben, Greenfield fitness, dot com an amazing week. Thanks for listening to today's show, you can grab all the show notes resources pretty much everything that I mentioned or Ben Greenfield fitness dot com along with plenty of other goodies from me including the highly helpful. Ben. Recommends Page, which is a list of pretty much everything that I've ever recommended for hormone sleep digestion fat loss perform Minson plenty more. Please also know that all the links all. The Promo codes that I mentioned during this and every episode helped to make this podcast happened and to generate income that enables me to keep bringing you this content every single week. So when you listen in, be sure to use the links and the show notes, use the Promo Code that generate because that helps to float this thing and keep it coming to you each and every week.