The Murderous Coup of 1898 & The Rise of White Supremacy
From whyy in Philadelphia. I'm terry gross with fresh air today. The forgotten story of a murderous coup that led to a white supremacist takeover over a southern city journalist. David Zucchini says in the eighteen nineties. Wilmington North Carolina was a mixed race community with a thriving. Black middle-class Black Alderman undermine and police officers and black newspaper but white supremacists plotted a bloody purge around the eighteen ninety eight election they rampaged through the streets killing sixty black men and banished prominent black people and their white allies from the city. They rounded these people up in literally ran out of town on a rail took him to the train station to put them on trains and told him never to come back. And not one of them ever dead. Zucchinis new book called Wilmington's lie later. Kevin Whitehead reviews a live recording by saxophonists Eddie lockjaw Davis and Johnny Griffin. The American south in the post reconstruction era was a land of broken promises and brutal oppression for African Americans as white leaders stripped former slaves of many of the civil and voting rights. They'd one after the civil war for but in the eighteen nineties. The port city of Wilmington North Carolina was an exception at had a thriving black middle class a large black electorate and a local local government that included black aldermen police officers and magistrates that ended in eighteen ninety eight with a bloody campaign of violence and intimidation nation by white supremacists which our guest journalist. David Zoo Keno calls America's first and only armed overthrow of illegally elected government Zucchini chronicles. The events new book called Wilmington's lie the murderous coup of eighteen ninety eight and the rise of white supremacy. David's Yuki no is a contributing attributing writer for the New York Times he's covered war and civil conflicts in more than three dozen countries and was awarded the Pulitzer Prize for his reporting from apartheid. South Africa yeah he spoke with fresh. Air's Davies David Zucchini. Oh welcome to fresh air. This is an amazing story And it set in Wilmington North North Carolina in eighteen nineties. It's a coastal city at then the largest city in North Carolina right and remarkable for the status that African Americans Americans held at that city at a you know which was a city in the deep south. Give us a sense of where black citizens stood in Wilmington Wilmington was really an outlier outlier. It was really a unique city in the south at that time It was first of all it was a majority black city and it was probably one of the very very very few major cities in the south that had a black majority it was fifty six percent. Black There was a multi racial government at the time we're black served in positions of power and that was extremely rare in the south. At that time there were Three Black Alderman. There were ten black policemen. They were Black Magistrates Magistrates There was a daily Black newspaper which was very unusual in the south. They weren't that many because The white media really dominated and This was really more than the white supremacists could bear. They had been in power in North Carolina since reconstruction -struction but had lost control of Wilmington and the state legislature in eighteen ninety four through a combination of the populist oculus party which was made up of poor whites abandoning the Democratic Party in going over to the Republican Party and aligning themselves with not only white Republicans but Black Republicans and the blacks were the ones that had put the Republicans in power. And so that's how they had reached the status in Wilmington With a burgeoning black middle class with black doctors black lawyers black professionals. It was quite an unusual usual situation at again. Something that white supremacists where we're not going to allow to stand right and to remind people who may not remember nineteenth century politics as well back in the Democrats we're the party of white supremacy. The Republicans were the ones that African Americans and joined and supported. So you had this black middle class and meaningful representation tation in government. How did whites handle this? What we're race relations like in the city it was interesting? Take the The Black newspaper for for example. The the daily record white businessmen bought ads in the paper. They were ads in the newspaper that appeal to both blacks and whites Blacks lacks worked In white businesses with the whites clearly in charge but With fairly cordial relations of there was was racial segregation at the time but Wilmington was an unusual was unusual in that A lot of the neighborhoods were mixed or you had blacks and whites living mm together even in the in the in the working classes which was a again a little unusual for a city in in the south at that time. Obviously there were whites who presented This and a plan rose to to retake Wilmington and much of the state from this combination of Republicans and populists which had given given African Americans meaningful role in government The violence occurred in the November eighteen ninety eight election but the planning started months ahead of time. What happened it? It's it started in the in the spring when the publisher of the news and observer which was the most powerful and influential Paper in North Carolina met with the head of the Democratic Party amending fern. Fold Simmons and they came up with a plan to overthrow of the government in Wilmington which was the the largest and most important city but they had a larger goal in mind and that was to deprive the blacks of the vote and deprive them of the ability not to serve in elected or appointed office ever again and this plan was hatched over a period of several months during the The the spring summer and fall of Eighteen Ninety eight leading up to the elections In November and the way they did this was to Set setup sort of a a military formation in Wilmington where they had a block captains and blocked lieutenants assigned they Brought in and weapons From a faraway as Richmond and Baltimore. whites armed themselves with shotguns in Winchester's They did not allow blacks on the other hand. took to buy any weapons The merchants of the city bought a lot of a new rapid fire. Colt machine gun for the state militia. And this was a very important point that that that people don't realize that The white leadership had control of two state militias the Wilmington light infantry the and the the city's naval reserves these were both state militias that Purportedly answered to the governor in Raleigh. They were basically the National Guard of the day. Okay but they were made up of whites apprentices and they were controlled by the white supremacist leadership and at the same time. The city's merchants would buy guns for poor whites who couldn't afford the so. The city was incredibly well armed and prepared For the day when The leadership had had set aside after after the election to overthrow the government right so there were clearly preparations for a military assault but there was a huge effort. Here also in in propaganda in information and disinformation fake news. If you want Give us a sense of what kind of information was with propagated which helped to create the atmosphere for this this counter revolution at the time Newspapers were King of media. Yeah they were really the only media and the news and observer in Raleigh was the king of median North Carolina and Josephus Daniels orchestrated Probably the most I Effective in an impressive disinformation campaign Up until that time It was it was two pronged it. It focused locust on Telling White voters that Black public officials were incompetent and corrupt and utterly incapable able of governing. An utterly incapable of having the intelligence to vote and at the same time being sexually insatiable and on the prowl for White Women They even used a term for it. It was the black beast rapist and Daniels Planet planted these false stories around eastern after North Carolina and particularly in Wilmington of black men supposedly Attacking and assaulting white women Without any protection I'm from A police force that they said was run by a black policeman so this was very very effective and it was picked up by other papers around the state and particularly either papers in Wilmington and they incited whites attacked. Blacks and part of the plan was to make sure that blacks did not registered disturb vote because blacks outnumbered whites in Wilmington and they could overwhelm them with sheer numbers. So during the summer as part of this this campaign the whites Created A redshirt militia. These were Gunmen who dressed in red shirts went out at night into Black areas and would break into black homes young men out and beat them and whip them in threaten them threaten to kill a missile registered to vote at the same time as part of this campaign White merchants were told to find out whether any of their black employees had had planned plan to register the vote or had registered to vote if they had registered. They were fired if they hadn't they were told that they would be fired if they did register. Vote another threat of stories arose about Stories of a black insurrection. a-coming people remembered the NAT Turner Royal Revolt. which had been what the eighteen thirties? Right I mean many thirty one right but the idea was sold that that blacks were planning an armed revolt thus justifying arming and oppressing black. Yes this was part of the whole newspaper campaign. I mean day after day. The news is it observer in Raleigh and the papers in Wilmington papers elsewhere eastern North Carolina kept warning of a black revolution of black riot They would print story saying blacks. Were stockpiling weapons. When it was fact it was the whites who were stockpiling? The weapons that blacks were planning to kill White Women An and white children and take over the city Takeover churches burn them. Down burned down white businesses and take over the town and in fact some of the whites believed their own propaganda and they set up safe places for white families to flee when the black riot started They they set up Churches his in places of business where they would take white families for protection and in fact in the days before the election and before the planned riot which was two days after the election. The lot of Whites and their families out of the city for fear of this black uprising. And we should just note here that It wasn't blasted run the entire government but they had allies among populist whites that had formed this coalition between populist whites in the Republican Party which allowed them to win these elections. which were you know more tolerant? Laura of black participation in black voting rights exactly in part of the propaganda campaign was really targeted against What they called carpetbaggers? There's which were northern white northerners who had come down and scalawags which were Southerners who were Called Race Traders And these were people who were in positions of power in the government The newspapers railed against what they called quote. Negro rule when in fact only a very very small proportion of public officials heels in Wilmington and in eastern North Carolina where black Most of the power resided in their Republican white allies but the the the white supremacy campaign. And that's another interesting point. They actually called it the white supremacy campaign. I mean they were proud of it. And they made eight very clear that they were going to restore white supremacy as official government policy. There was a very influential piece by an African American newspaper. Editor Alex Manley which played a role in all of these events. Tell us about this. Tell us about him. Alex Alex Manley was very very very courageous. Crusading a black editor. He was in fact the grandson of a white governor in fact And he could have passed. I is white which Many people with white Ancestors dead but he chose to live his life as a black man and he advocated for Black civil civil rights and and he demanded that the federal government live up to its promises of of equality and citizenship and voting rights for blacks and he did so through the pages of his paper. The Daily Record In August of eighteen. Ninety Eight He responded to a speech that was given by a woman in in a white woman in in Georgia WHO said the only solution Two black aggression against white woman was Lynch and she said I did. She said Lynch a thousand times a day if necessary and he felt like he had to respond to that and I would like to read Just a couple of lines from the editorial he wrote in August are quote. Every Negro Lynch is called the big burly black brute when in fact many of those who have have been dealt with had white men for their fathers and were not only black and burly but were sufficiently attractive for white girls of culture and refinement to fall in in love with them as is very well known to all lead virtue. Be something more than an excuse for them to intimidate and torture helpless people. Tell your men that it is no worse for a black man to be intimate with a white woman then for a white man to be intimate with a colored woman you set yourself down as a lot of carping hypocrites hypocrites in that you cry Aloud for the virtue of your web and when you seek to destroy the morality of ours and it's you can imagine that had an incredible edible incendiary impact on White's not only in Wilmington across North Carolina and across the south because the white newspapers reprinted did the editorial in full to try to incite Whites against blacks and in fact after the editorial ran There were the the reds Ed's shirts which was the The private militia of the white supremacy movement wanted to Lynch Alex. Manley that day and to this show you how premeditated and calculated this white supremacy campaign. was they were ordered by the leaders of the campaign to wait until after after the elections in November three months later when it would have greater political impact so Alex Manley did survive Up until he'll just before the election and then the red shirts rose up again and wanted to lynch him he found out about it and He fled Wilmington and never returned. So November eighth is election day in Wilmington and across the state what happened in Wilmington in Wilmington Blacks tried to have summoned the courage to go out and vote and some of them did manage to vote but a lot of them were intercepted by these these gunmen known as Red Shirts and Either either threatened or beaten or intimidated and driven away from the polls and the red shirts also went to polling stations in a stuffed ballot boxes with with phony democratic ballots and destroyed Republican ballots and There were instances in several Princi- inks where the Democratic candidate won with more votes than the number of total registered voters in the district so it was a complete fraud and of the election was stolen. The Democrats did take over county offices in In the county surrounding Wilmington and they took back the state legislature right and of course the municipal officials which included some African Americans and their Republican White Republican allies. We're not on the ballot that day and there there was a plan to deal with them and that really meant constraining. The white mobs who wanted to really do violence and burn the Black newspaper. The plan was not to do that on election. What was the plan? The plan was to wait two days until after the election and to use the newly empowered powered position that they had as a result of winning the election to overthrow the government. And this was very carefully planned There was a mass meeting of Wightman the day after the election where they issued something. They called the White Declaration of independence. they said from now on a black jobs jobs will be given to white men. There will be no more black officials and public office or an appointed office. Whites were rule This is white. Man's country and whites will rule it And then they planned and organized for the next day for the red shirts to go out and I I burn. Alex Manley's record newspaper because as I say. The red shirts had been Just determined all summer to Lynch Alex Manly and they were given permission to do that that day. Once they burned the newspaper and returned the the smoke and the sound of the the fire. Alarms just terrified Black workers in the city and they all fled their jobs and went back to their neighborhoods and some of them congregated In a in a black lack neighborhood that was on the edge of a mixed race neighborhood. They congregated on a corner. Some of them have managed to grab a few weapons to try to to defend themselves and there was a showdown with the whites who had just returned from burning the black newspaper and a huge crowd of white armed men developed and confronted this small group of blacks on a corner and after Some shouting and yelling back and forth gunfire broke out out The whites fired first and the riot began. And for the rest of the day The red shirts and the two state militias a rampage to the streets chase down black man killed at least sixty black men and at the same time came up with the banishment list. Most of some fifty people black and white who were to be banished from Wilmington forever? They rounded these people up and literally ran out of town on on a rally took him to the train station. Put Him on trains and told him never to come back and not one of them ever did what about the women and children In the the gunfire was directed at black men. What about their families? What became what did they do Black families were so terrified at their men. Being shot down in the street that they fled Just hundreds of families just fled to To the swamps to a black cemetery where they figured Whites would would not enter and hidden woods for several days This was in November. It was cold and wet at night. There were reports that the some some babies died During this horrible experience once the black families felt it was safe to come back to Wilmington several days later later in the weeks and months of following the coup More than two thousand blacks fled the city and a black majority Jordy city. Almost overnight became a white supremacist stronghold In in eighteen ninety eight the black population of Wilmington Lewis fifty six percent and today it is eighteen percent. We're listening to the interview. Fresh Air Davies recorded with David's Aquino a contributing abiding writer for the New York Times and author of the New Book Wilmington's lie the murderous coup of eighteen ninety eight and the rise of white supremacy after a break. The talk about how Wilmington's white leaders past discriminatory laws restricting voting rights for blacks and North Carolina that lasted for the next seventy years and jazz critic. Kevin Whitehead will review a recording. That recently surfaced of Saxophonist Eddie lockjaw Davis and Johnny Griffin. I'm Terry Gross. And this is fresh share support for this podcast and the following message come from University of Maryland Global Campus Make Twenty twenty year. You take the next step in your business. Education at University of Maryland global campus you can earn an MBA and just eighteen months U. N. G. C. was founded more than seventy years ago to serve working adults like you with online courses no cost digital course materials and a streamlined admissions process with no gre or G. Mat required get started today at U. M. G. C. Dot edu slash podcast. Let's get back to the interview fresh air's Dave Davies recorded with veteran investigative reporter. David Zucchini no his new book. Wilmington's lie tells the story of the violent assault staged by white. Supremacist mobs in eighteen. Ninety eight to take control of the city of Wilmington North Carolina at a time when African Americans their had real voting rights and representation and local government. This wasn't simply a change of government. It was Radical transformation of the lives of black citizens. You want to talk about that a little bit. Someone I mean you know there were successful attorneys and merchants Sir and who had real lives and stakes in the community in lots of black people who were employed in working class roles hauer their lives affected by this the leading The blacks the doctors and the lawyers and the funeral directors and the ministers were put on this list to be banished and they were all confronted it in their homes that night the night of the riot and told they had twenty four hours to get their affairs in order and leave and they were all put on on trains and sent out of town town and not one of them ever came back There was one man named Thomas Miller who was one of the wealthiest people black or white in Wilmington. He was a real estate broker very shrewd businessman. He owned a restaurant. He had been a deputy sheriff In he was so successful he he was was seen as a as a threat by the white leadership and he was dragged from his home by the militia by the state militia Taken to jail overnight and the next day on a train and driven from the city and He like all the others never came back. This was not not only a coup. It was a revolution I mean. This had reverberations across North Carolina and the South inspired white supremacists across the south the effect of the coup and the aftermath with so that blacks did not hold Elected or appointed offices in Wilmington. They're in the eastern North Carolina. Fr- another seventy years. I mean after. They drove three Black Alderman from office at gunpoint. nope black citizens served on the city council until nineteen seventy two of the white supremacist. Also hounded The only you black member of Congress in the country in eighteen ninety eight a man named George Henry White who was from eastern North Carolina represented North Carolina in Congress. They how did him and his family and he left after the coup saying I cannot live in North Carolina and be treated like a man and from that point on no African. The American citizens served in Congress from North Carolina Until Nineteen Ninety two. So this had major repercussions and it was indeed a revolution. And you know one little detail which underlined the permanence of these changes were that Tom Miller this. This wealthy black citizen in Wilmington the real estate broker occur who was banished from from the city years later ask permission to just come back to attend his mother's funeral. What Eh that that to me was one of the just the saddest episodes in this book? He begged he wrote a letter To a white colonel he knew and the city who thought was a friend friend And just begged for permission. Just I just WanNa come back and bury my mother. She's the oldest living resident of this part of Wilmington and He he was just refused permission. And he wrote this heartbreaking plate of letter where he just said he had been treated worse than a dog that he had done? Nothing nothing wrong It was a terrible injustice at broke his heart and he died two years later. Just a broken man you know. This was and occasion of horrific violence inflicted upon blacks and it was a stolen election in that. All of these state offices went from Republican into democratic hands in in what we're clearly circumstances of corruption and intimidation but there's a third element of this. I mean you say that. This was America's first and only armed overthrow of illegally elected government and that's because there were local officials who were not on the ballot that even after these horrific events were technically technically still in office legally elected some of them African Americans. What happened to them of mob of red shirts marched on city the hall led by A former confederate colonel named Alfred. More del At gunpoint confronted The city councilman men and ordered them to resign And they had no choice. They did reside but the The amazing thing was that They held an impromptu quote collection and the mob leaders the people who actually led the riot and had run through the streets. Killing black men were appointed or quote elected to Fill their positions on the city council and Colonel Wa Dell was quote elected as mayor so the leaders put themselves in charge and they ran the city For years afterwards in the civil rights movement it was the federal government that often was the difference maker when local whites were in charge urge and denying blacks rights. There were efforts to get President William McKinley to intervene both before these events and then to investigate afterwards what became of the Yes during the whole summer and fall of eighteen. Ninety eight George Henry White the The the US congressman from north. Carolina met personally in the White House with McKinley and warned him. That whites were planning this revolution that we're planning to Intimidate and kill black citizens black doc. LURGI men met with Mckinley and warned him about it. black ministers in Washington. DC held several meetings mass meetings where they warned warned of The the quote race war coming in North Carolina after the coup and the massacre McKinley was approached again by George Henry White He met with a black delegation. Who told him what had happened and begged him the sent? Federal troops but in order for federal troops to come in they had to be requested by The governor and Governor Russell was besieged in his mansion he was terrified and he wasn about To call in the troops and at the same time President President Mckinley. Who Wasn't abolition isn't he was a former union officer had campaigned on bringing the nation together and these events occurred occurred during the summer of eighteen? Ninety eight in the middle of the Spanish American war and that war had sorta reunited the north and the south or years after the civil war. And I don't think McKinley Really wanted to interrupt that sense of nationhood even though it was A real undercurrent. Ah Jingoism there and at the same time like any politician. He was running for reelection and he needed white votes from the south. And how I don't think he wanted to organize white so he made a decision to stay out of it and I could find no record that he made any public comment about events in Wilmington before or afterward as the election approached through the summer and fall of eighteen. Ninety eight you you had. White militias forming in Wilmington and surrounding rounding communities violence being inflicted upon blacks. Lots of incendiary language being thrown around in newspaper editorials did this attract national national attention absolutely This was known as quote the race. War in the Carolinas and newspapers from around the country country sent their white reporters down in the spring summer and fall of eighteen. Ninety eight to cover this race. War The New York Times The Washington Post The Philadelphia Inquirer. Why were the Chicago Tribune? The Washington Evening Star of the Baltimore Sun all the major papers of the day Came down and covered it and what was really really interesting was when these reporters would arrive at the train station. The leader of leaders of the white supremacy movement would meet them in hand out cigars whiskey and range for their lodging and they would also rage essentially for them to use a modern term to embed with them. They took them around the city and fill them with stories of how Blacks were stockpiling weapons and black churches. And we're planning to rise up And riot and take over the city and the newspapers from the north repeated the talking points other white supremacists almost word for word so their stories were extremely greenlee slanted An even swallowed the white supremacy narrative that Blacks were incapable of voting that they born intelligent enough to vote. And certainly were not intelligent or capable enough to hold office and had to be removed. We're speaking with David Zucchini. He's an investigative vested reporter. His new book is Wilmington's live the murderous coup of eighteen ninety eight and the rise of white supremacy. We'll take a short break then. We'll talk some more. This is fresh air this message comes from. NPR sponsor Tele Doc. Have you ever needed a doctor late at night or while traveling Tele Doc offers twenty four seven access to board board certified doctors for non emergency conditions like a sinus infection allergies flu rashes. And More Tell Docks Board certified doctors can diagnose treat street and we're authorized prescribe medications to be filled at the pharmacy of your choice. Download the APP today or visit Tele Doc dot com slash fresh air teachers and students. You wanted to step boring book report and make a podcast instead. NPR student podcast. Challenge is here with a new podcast to give you all all the tips and tricks to making an amazing podcast of your own. Listen and share with your friends. This is fresh air and we're speaking with investigative reporter David's Aquino. He has a new book which tells the story of the violent assaults staged by white supremacist mobs in in eighteen. Ninety eight to take control of the city of Wilmington North Carolina at a time when African Americans their had real voting rights and significant roles in local government. His his book is called. Wilmington's lie so after this violence in eighteen ninety eight. What measures were did? The white leaders enact to make permanent the denial of voting rights for blacks even before the coup white supremacist at Instituted poll taxes and literacy tests and poll taxes says you're required To pay a fee in order to register vote and this was intended to keep blacks from voting because so many blacks were poor The literacy test was run after whites stole the election. The poll watchers and the people who registered people. Were now suddenly all democrats and they would impose these literacy tests on blacks and Force them to do things like recite from memory the preamble to the Constitution Institution. But the problem was that Up to a quarter of all whites and North Carolina where literate and so. They couldn't pass. The literacy tests in many whites were worse worse. They couldn't afford the poll taxes so the leaders of the white supremacy campaign had been elected to the state legislature. So they passed what they called a a suffrage amendment which contained a grandfather clause. Which said that if your grandfather or any descendant had voted prior to eighteen sixty seven you are exempted from the poll tax and the literacy tests will conveniently enough Blacks did not get the vote in North Carolina until eighteen sixty eight so so essentially. The grandfather clause eliminated Almost all black men in North Carolina because very very few them none of them in fact had a An ancestor who had voted before eighteen. Sixty seven and that lull clearly discriminatory provisions stood for how long it stood and tell the the passage of the voting rights act in nineteen sixty five so for basically seventy years. You know the name of your book is Wilmington's ally which is an interesting way to set a focus on this. It's not just the events but how they were remembered over over the years in the decades that followed how were these. Violent events characterized by white papers white newspapers and leaders in the south right. The first thing I I I shouldn't remind people is this was unique. There have been many so-called race riots in American history both in the nineteenth century and the early twentieth the essentially the such as Atlanta in nineteen six and Tulsa nineteen twenty one but these were spontaneous and the spark was usually contact between a black man in white woman. The coup in Wilmington was completely unique. First of all it was not a race riot it was a coup and it was premeditated it was was calculated and planned for months. And there's never been another case like this in American history. And after the coup in the years following the white supremacists were quite proud of what they did and they bragged openly about it in in letters and diaries and memoirs but then gradually over the years ears. It was It was covered up. It was not taught in history books in in North Carolina and if it was mentioned it was Mentioned as has a part of this Lost Cause Mythology of the south of whites rising up in defense of good government in eliminating eliminating incompetent and corrupt blacks from government. So that's the way it was portrayed For more than one hundred the years I went to high school and College in North Carolina and not once. Was this ever mentioned in any history class over over time. In the late twentieth century attitudes changed and people began to learn about and consider the narrative of what happened in Wilmington in eighteen. Ninety great and then there was the approaching one hundred anniversary And that culminated in quite a debate. About how these events were to be regarded how did the community entity contend with this legacy. The University of North Carolina Wilmington decided that the time had come to really burrow down own and find out what really happened to educate people about what really happened and they decided to try to bring whites and blacks together including descendants on both sides of people who had been involved in the events of eighteen ninety eight It was a very very emotional and painful time. Hi but I believe they did accomplish something they had several Symposiums they At one point On exactly exactly a hundred years after White supremacists gave a speech before the election of vowing to choke the Cape Fear River with black carcasses they held a joint black and white Referendum where they signed a what what they called a declaration of black and white independence They had church choirs from black and white churches Sing Hymns Hymns together They came up with a definition of what had happened in rather than a race riot. They decided that it was racial violence. Violence The true story was told but they were still quite a few resentments on both sides for the whites There was an undercurrent wire. We dredging up this ancient history. This happened a hundred years ago. Let's just let it die and obviously for African Americans A great sense of of lost their Middle class community was destroyed. An and really never rebuilt They had suffered their families had suffered for generations There were calls for reparations which created more friction but in the end They created a memorial that was a block from the side of where the first gunshots rang out in eighteen. Ninety Eight They put up a plaque that told the true story of What had been called a race riot but it wasn't factor a coup? So I believe in the end they did reach a sort of an uneasy accommodation With events of of one hundred years earlier you also spoke with descendants of some of the African American leaders at the time including Alex Manley. What did you hear? I talked to. Alex Manley's grandson Lewin Manly Junior At the time was eighty five years old. He's a retired heard dentists living in Atlanta and he grew up he knew his grandfather as child For a few years He knew Alex Manley's very well his grandmother and as he was growing up he kept hearing these stories about Wilmington in eighteen ninety eight and how his grandfather was directly involved as family would not tell him anything and it really paint him and it bothered him that he could not get anything out out of his family and he realize much later that this was such a painful experience for the family that they decided they would never talk about it again again. Alex Manley did not tell anyone the details of what had happened. He said very little about it. He said he wanted to Let the pass bury the past would not talk about it up until his death and and the nineteen forties. His grandson learned the true story of what had happened in two thousand six. This was when a state commission which had been appointed to investigated the causes and the impact of the right had spent five years investigating it and in two thousand six came out with a four hundred page report that just detailed what had happened and low and Manley and Lee read this and was astonished at no idea what had happened and when I talked to him I I asked him You know can you ever forgive of Of the whites for what they did to to your grandfather. One hundred twenty years ago and he says well I'm not a religious man and I can't forget and and I won't forgive I hope they're burning in hell all of them will David Keno. Thanks so much for speaking with us. It's great to be with you. Dave Dave Aquino is a contributing writer for the New York Times. His new book is called. Wilmington's lie the murderous coup of eighteen ninety eight and the rise as of white supremacy after we take a short break. Kevin Whitehead will review a recording that recently surfaced of saxophonists Eddie lockjaw Davis and Johnny Griffin. This is fresh air support for NPR comes from whyy presenting the pulse a podcast that takes you on adventures into unexpected corners. There's of health and science plastic in the guts of deep sea creatures crying after anesthesia building. Your own Internet. Each episode is full of fascinating stories stories and big ideas the pulse available. Where you get your podcasts? Or at W. H. Y. Y.. Dot Org. Hi It's Terry Gross inviting you to check out our new online archive collecting forty years of fresh air interviews and reviews. You can hear my interviews with people like David Bowie aretha Franklin Johnny Cash Hash. John Updike Tony Morrison Search for names. You're interested in make a playlist for yourself or friends at fresh air archive dot org. That's fresh Air Archive Dr Dot Org in the early nineteen sixties saxophonists Eddie lockjaw Davis and Johnny Griffin co-lead jumping to tenor band. A live recording adding has now surfaced jazz critic. Kevin Whitehead says it's literally a blast from the past Ooh saxophonists Eddie lockjaw Davis and Johnny Griffin from the album owl live live at the penthouse a new issue from nineteen sixty two. It's a love letter to fans who think the jazz can never swing hard enough that the music is all about that springy compulsive rhythm. Personally I don't insist on it. Every second but swing is one of Jazz's great pleasures rhythm feel at once buoyant and tough off showing how it's done are airy pianist. Horace Parlin Tireless Base Walker Buddy Catlin and heavy drum swinger. Arthur Taylor they bring net lift even at killer temples Take Johnny ripping gets top billing on Al Live at the penthouse but on their old. LP's that that honor went to the slightly older lockjaw Davis he makes the stage announcements here and usually Solos. I with an agreeably raspy tone and imposing rhythmic swagger. Here's lockjaw on her Now one sound reason for lockjaw Davis to Solo Solo. I was not a good idea to follow. Johnny Griffin Tenor Pairings are less about competition and mutual respect and celebration of contrasting styles Griffin. Did have a competitive streak. You didn't need to win every battle but gave the impression that was in his power. He was scary fast the way John Coltrane was in nineteen sixty two. Here's Johnny Griffin on that same tune. After the Rhythm Trio Jack up the temple the home Johnny Griffin on the trades at the end of a few tunes. The tenors volley short phrases back and forth the saxophonist egg each other on like good friends. They also take mutual delight in negotiating insane. Gene Tempos as on tickle toe I loved the Berry Sound. They're lashing into the melody there. Johnny Griffin and Eddie lockjaw Davis Owl live at the penthouse was recorded at that Seattle Jazz Room. That musicians like the play that was during a ten day stand in late. Spring nineteen sixty two just to Seattle tourism was getting a boost from the recently opened. World's fair with its space needle great live. Gigs are usually lost to the ages but by good fortune in these two half hour sets were broadcast over local radio and got recorded with good sound and those tapes got preserved remembered. which is how this still no? Fresh music is now before years. As if on earth from world's fair time capsule yeah Kevin Whitehead rights point of departure and the audio beat. He reviewed Our live at the penthouse featuring saxophonist Johnny Griffin and Eddie lockjaw Davis recorded in nineteen sixty two tomorrow on fresh air. My guest will be journalists. Joe Palo Michael Rothfield who won a Pulitzer Prize for their reporting in the Wall Street Journal on hush money payments to former playboy centerfold fold Karen McDougal and porn star Stormy Daniels to keep secret their affairs with Donald Trump. How is also Rothfield? Have a new book called the fixers. The bottom feeders crooked lawyers gossip mongers and porn stars. Who created the forty fifth president? Hope you can join us. Fresh Air's executive producer. There is Danny Miller our technical director and Engineers Audrey Bentham our associate producer of digital media. Is Molly Seavy Nesper. Roberta shorrock directs the show. I'm Terry Gross.