BTK: Episode 100


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DNA people have been looking and hunting for thirty or forty years, and that's why they're not getting caught. Because they they they don't ramp to the level of the Bundy or something like they. They have control. Welcome to the first degree true crime podcast that you might end up on. My Name Is Jack Van. I'm sitting far away from Alexis Lindgren far away from Billy Johnson? And today is such an important episode of the first degree, because it is our one hundredth episode, we made it to one hundred is. I'm not sure how did it, but here we are on the other side of one hundred zero hat. How did we never miss an episode? I don't know how we've made it through with all of our episodes on time except for I, think one was a little bit late. One was like six hours late, but even if it's just like two hours late because there's other people involved in this process, it was then delayed like half a day, but honestly no one cared. It was during the Kovic shutdown. What do you like walking watches waiting for just drop? I don't think so. Give us fine. You got it on the right day. What are you GonNa? What what can we do, yeah? I'm really excited about today's episode. Because for today's landmark one hundredth episode, we have something very very very special, very kind of big Q or Josh for all of you, and we are so excited about it and I don't want to spoil it, so not give any more away, but you guys are going to be stoked on today's first degree. Before we jump into the episode, we have something very important and that is. What is the day billy? National Gummy Worms Day Oh my God. No, no veil. Try again. There's better ones. National respect candidate and I certainly respect candidate now more than ever more than ever, but that also, wasn't it? There is a there is one I'm staring here billy that you're not getting to. National pet fire safety day. Because it's a dog. No. dorte. National Orange Chicken Day. ooh rights. I ll general sows June I just love like a classic orange. Chicken from Panda Express. I mean I probably should never eat that and I haven't eaten it in probably fifteen years, but but there's just why do I like it? Boy? Do I crave it when I was you. Know. Let me. Say this. You probably have had it because I know the way that you like to eat, you've probably gone. You know how at some balls that they will have somebody with a sample and you love you love just like a little nibble. You've probably had it within the last fifteen years I. Probably have in. You know what is not going to happen anymore samples, and that really grinds my gears because all I do want is one piece of Orange Chicken and now I'm bummed because I'm going to have to buy a whole me also well. That's enough of that. So, let's turn down the lights. And turn up your anxiety. Because this could be you. Today's case brings us back to January fifteenth of Nineteen, Seventy Four, and if you're listening to this episode, Live on Release Day, we can tell you. It's been exactly forty six years six months and eleven days since a significant day, the movie blazing saddles was in theaters and songs time in a bottle by Jim Crow Chee and the joker by Steve Miller band were topping the charts and the setting for today's case Wichita Kansas. That's the largest city in the state of Kansas and the. LARGEST, city in the United States. Geographically speaking Wichita is located in south. Central Kansas. Nestled against the Arkansas River. In Wichita birthplace of both pizza hut and white castle, making a fast food wonderland of sorts. And another thing that this fine city produced the outlaw. Will Bonnie also known as billy the kid? which saw Kansas has many suburban neighborhoods, the kind of neighborhoods that are perfect for raising a family and that's exactly where Joseph. Otero and his wife Julie planted their roots in decided to raise their children. This family consisted of thirty. Eight Year Old Dad Joseph. Thirty four year, old mom, Giulio Tarot and the Otero children, nine year, old Joseph junior eleven year old Josephine, thirteen year olds Carmen, fourteen year old Danny and fifteen year old Charlie. It's a big wonderful family name on this particular morning of January fifteenth, Matriarch. Julie Woke her children for school at around seven am. The older kids were running late and left school with their dad at seven fifty a m. As Joseph was pulling out of the family's garage to leave driving his children. His son Charley started to close the garage door as the car was pulling out. But Joseph stopped him and told him to leave it open because he was returning right after he drove kids to school, so charlie obliged. She listened to his dad. He got back in the car and off. They went. Sculpture proceeded as normal for the kids and at the end of the day the three older children. Walked tone. And it's not clear whether the children normally walk home, but we do know is at the time. The Otero family only had one working vehicle because there other car had been in an accident and it was at the shot being repaired. When the kids got home, they couldn't open the front door, so Danny went around to the back, and he tried to get the back door open, but that was locked to so danny goes back around to the front of the House, and he somehow manages to unlock the front door. Once they were inside the first thing that children saw was the contents of their mom's purse spilled out onto the living room floor. They look to the kitchen and they see their father's wallet on the Stove. A child's lunchbox was on the kitchen table josephina Joseph Juniors winter coats were on the living room, couch, and an open loaf of bread, a knife and several jars of sandwich spread were on the kitchen table. Some of the pieces of the bread were slathered with Mayo, and some weren't, and it was kind of as if somebody had been interrupted when they're making their sandwiches, and there was also a gallon of milk left out next to the kitchen sink. Next to the half made sandwiches. There was an open can of Pairs. One of the chairs at the kitchen table was pulled out. And there was a pair of men's shoes under the chair. The three kids knew something was just off, and they walked around looking for a sign of either their mom. Their Dad or they're two younger siblings. They went upstairs towards the master bedroom. And that's where they made a horrifying discovery. They saw their parents lifeless bodies. The frantic children attempted to cut the rope from around their mom's neck and the ropes around their father's wrists. They removed the gag from their MOM's mouth with a set of toenail clippers and tried to revive her. Danny then went to get a knife to try to cut the ropes off of his father's hands. And there was also a belt around his father's throat, which loosened and he then tried to revive him. But his father's chest was just very stiff. Danny ran to the phone to call for help. But when he picked up the receiver at the line is dead. So we started out of the house, found neighbor, and they called the police. When the police arrived at the scene, it was three forty pm, and they were met by Charlie. Who was just completely distraught? He told him that his parents were inside. There were in their bedroom and they were tied up. The police told us three children to stay outside and stay calm and try to comfort them. Please entered the home. and. It was neat orderly. The only thing out of place that stuck out to them initially was this. person the floor in his wallet on the Stove, and obviously these things in the kitchen, which made it seem like somebody had been interrupted making lunch for these children. Officers moved through the house towards the master bedroom. They. Push the door open at approached shows, if senior who is clearly deceased and lying on the floor of the master bedroom. There is and moved to a piece of white rope and a large butcher knife that laid next to him. Julia. Tara, was on the bed. Her legs were hanging off the side, slightly bent. Julia was wearing jeans a housecoat. Her feet were bound the ankles. She'd indentations around her neck, and there was one piece of rope tied to the north corner of the bed. There was blood around her nose and around her mouth. Neither Julia or Joseph had a pulse. Julie's hands were still tied behind her back, and there was a white gag rules to her head, which was stained with her blood. And when Charlie Danny and Carmen their three children were questioned by arriving officers. They told them that they lived at this home with their parents in there too little siblings, Josephine and Joseph Junior and they didn't know where they were. The older siblings became distraught over the idea of having to tell the babies of the family that their parents had been killed, but that was something that they'd never actually have to do. Because the reality of the nightmare that was unfolding in real time that morning was about to get so much worse than anyone on the scene could have imagined. Inside the home, one of the officers was attempting to clear the house room by room, making sure the perpetrator who attacked Julian Joseph senior word no longer on the premises. And it's in an upstairs bedroom that this officer Shirley made one of the most horrific and haunting discoveries of his entire life. Through me entered was clearly the bedroom of two children, there were bunk beds and boys toys everywhere. And in the center of the floor, was the lifeless body of Joseph Otero, junior he was wearing his school close a long sleeved button up shirt, jeans and socks. And, we are going to describe his injuries because Joseph Junior was nine years old, and we're not here to describe injuries inflicted on children, gratuitous or detail. But it wouldn't be long before. Four horrifying discovery in this home was about to be made. As the search of the home continued. What are the officers descended the stairs to the basement. And it was there that they found the body of eleven year old Josephine. Like the case of Joseph Junior rocketed, discuss her injuries or the circumstances under which her life was cruelly taken. As News, the massacre spread to say the community was shocked. Devastated horrified doesn't begin to describe the kind of impact. A crime like this has on a neighborhood. And many of the most grizzled police officers will never see examples of such cruelty across thirty year careers. The Tara home was seals off and law. Enforcement set up a command post an old school across the street from the House. It was revealed that the families Brown nineteen sixty eight Vista cruiser station wagon was missing from the garage, but it was found later that same day in the parking lot of a grocery store. Then the search for the person who slaughtered this family commenced. In the thing is. Is that no one on the scene that day? Realize that this search would be one that would stretch over more than three decades, because the murder of his family be the first four murders of ten that terrorized and continue to haunt the suburbs of Wichita Kansas to this day. The Otero Homa searched for evidence and processed, and here's what they found. All four members of the Otero family had died by fixation as a result of strangulation. The phone lines had been cut to eliminate the risk of one of the victims calling for help. None of the victims have been raped, but there was semen on the floor of the basement near where Josephine was found. Nothing evaluates missing and the police believed trophies were likely to be taken from the scene, but it was really hard to be sure at the time. And bindings and gags were used during the. The police worked to flesh out the killers mo in this case. But hindsight is twenty twenty. Looking from today, we can see the patterns. But at the Otero case, there wasn't an established mo yet because this was a serial killers, first taste of murder. But with each kill this killers mo would become more and more defined. Bindings were used to restrain the victims. Torture? Victims were killed over long periods of time. And tormented throughout the experience. Both psychologically and with physical pain. And then finally kill. Their lives choked out of them by officiation. The perpetrator in this case was an is killer. Made evident by the fact, that clear planning went into the ambush of this family. The cutting of the phone lines. Bring binoculars with him to the scene. Tactical approach which allowed him to get them under his control. This color would eventually name himself be T, K A killer motivated by sexual sadism. And while none of his victims were sexually penetrated, we know that killing aroused him proven by the fact that there was semen found in the basement of the Otero home near Josephine's body. PT K had an obsession with bondage. All of his victims were killed by strangulation except for one, and that was only because he was interrupted during the Commission of the Act. Joseph Junior Joseph Senior Julie and Josephine would be the first known victims of one of the most, if not the most terrifying serial killers in modern history. Dennis Rader the K. I man who didn't care who the victim was didn't care. What sex victim was. A manual blamed his depraved crimes on an indescribable force. He called factor X. A man who killed ten people over the course of decades while maintaining the image of a loving father, a church Deacon, a Dogcatcher a boy, Scout, leader, and a doting husband, so how I mean really, how can someone capable of crime so unspeakable actually maintain a perceived sense of normalcy. How can a dichotomy like this exist? I mean really exist within one person. To answer that who better to help us deconstruct the mind of Dennis Rader then one of his own children. Meet our first degree Dennis Raiders Daughter Carrie. I mean my dad was pretty much. My best friend so I did everything with him I garden with Him we took walks with the dogs. We were very very close I was much closer to him than my mom and a lot of ways I pretty much that I couldn't be a boy scout. That was like the one thing I couldn't do temper like. New My parents are new. My family before my dad's arrest knew that he treated us really well that he was like an upstanding guy in the community. And you know they were all in shock. This ashes, just anybody that's not us after that are like. Don't necessarily believe us, but we were really close like we he. My Dad really likes to be outdoors. He would take fishing and camping and my mom. My mom hates the outdoors. She's only outside to go to our car literally like she hates outdoors so I don't even know how they ended up married. They're like it in, but he from when I was tiny like there's photos of fishing like he anything he was doing. He took me and my older brother Long. Raise me basically like a tomboy. Why one of the reasons I'm really strong? He taught me to be strong think he knew maybe things would catch up with him eventually, but he raised me to be very strong and a lot of ways. Carey was born in Park, city Kansas in nineteen, seventy eight, which was four years after her father started. And from Carey's perspective, she was raised by two loving parents, and how to generally healthy childhood. And Ascari, said she and her dad had one of those really special bonds, and they ended up sharing these interests that even carries. Mom didn't approve of that. They kind of kept between that I had grown up reading Stephen King, loving him sharing him with my dad like we would watch all the movies together. We would pass the books back before and I'm not talking about like. My teenage years or my doll years I'm saying like by the time I was like. Ten or eleven I was reading Stephen King like my mom didn't like it and my dad deny it was. There was something we shared. And like other like. Like kiss the girls and you know. We went and saw seven together just to explain some of our relationship. So like I think my dad in hindsight was trying to tell me a little bit about himself, but he also like appreciated that I like that stuff with him, but I think he was also trying to educate me. Prepare me. In two thousand five carry learn that the man she knew as dad. Was One of the world's most notorious sexual thrill killers and modern history. And to remain silent on the subject for nearly fifteen years. She avoided the media and worked tirelessly to process the absolutely consuming trauma. That this information brought onto her. While the pain that followed was varied and vast over the years. There's one particular aspect of carries experience that remains ever frustrating. I get pushed back a lot from the detective that I'm still close to he. He Win I'm having a hard time. I'll reach out. We don't talk very often. But he he likes to remind me he'll say flat out. Your Dad was never your dad every day of your life. That's a lie and thanks buddy like not what I need right now. Dude, so if you talk to criminologists, you talked to detectives. You know FBI and stuff. They're all very hardened. and. The thing is flight. They get it wrong and people even like the really highly educated hardened ones. They don't believe me. I don't think people want except that. Somebody could be so good at times and also be so bad they can't. They can't and even like the criminologist. They refused to believe it. And so somebody like the detective argues he was showing you what he thought that looked like, but that he didn't actually have empathy, and he didn't have loved. And there's and because he's a sexual sadistic psychopath. They're saying he can't love and I'm saying he can do both. In the world of criminal profiling for many decades, there were certain aspects of serial offenders that were thought to be universally shared amongst them characteristics that were rarely, if ever deviated from, we've seen this in the concept of serial killers ability to stop killing victims, and for a long time. It was thought that they couldn't stop once they started. This was considered fact when it came to the world of psychology and profiling serial killers, but in the last two decades we've seen one example after the next, or these assumptions are shattered leaving profiler, scratching their heads, and rewriting the books, another assumption and one we're. We're looking at very closely today. Is this all or nothing concept of empathy or in the case of serial? Killers lack thereof, they say a man can't be a sociopath, and also at the same time feel genuine love compassion for members of his family. The question here is, is it arrogant to believe that with all of the incredible nuance that exists within the human brain the week and determined with absolution that we know how Dennis rader brain works could Dennis rader be one of the first serial killers who defies generalization? We assign a serial killers well. There's only one way to answer that question. To go back to the beginning. Dennis Rader was born on March ninth of forty five, and he was born to William and Dorothea. Raider and he was the oldest of four children. He was born in Pittsburgh. Kansas but he grew up in Wichita proper. He attended riverview school and later graduated from Wichita Heights High School. And when people look back and study the childhood of serial killers, they're really searching for indicators of trauma that could explain how and why. The wires got crossed in their adolescent brain, but sometimes there's just no satisfying answer to be found. Here's the thing. He has three younger brothers. My uncles are amazing. His parents Felon Tortilla I was very close to them like they were amazing. Grandparents raised all of us grandkids. We did a ton of stuff together. You know they're I, can't personally find anything there, but then my dad hints that things like again. Is he just making crap up? My Dad has read so much. Like before he was arrested, and after about people like him, you takes like my dad admired h h holmes and wanted to build like something like homes. So, we're like Jack the. Ripper like my dad was obsessed with these people. So the thing is if you, my dad has read so much. Sometimes, he gets his own wires cross. What's him what somebody else? My Dad's hinted some things like. My Dad said that he watched my his grandparents out in the country in Kansas. Kill, some chickens for dinner and that Attorney Mon- when he was like four and everybody's like I don't think a four year old will be turned on by some chickens. Traumatized. But like you know to me, it seems like either. It's bullcrap. Or basically on some poetry and things, my dad's hinted at my says that maybe he was sexually abused by like a distant relative or stranger. Would he was little? That's because he was separated quite a while from his parents. Over the summer. My grandma was working. I think and so there was that opportunity there? I mean unfortunately everybody that we know is dead and my dad's thought talking. My Dad would never never cop to being. Abused or being weak. And so something could have happened. My Dad doesn't even know, but. I, I've tried. I've Gone I've looked at things I've tried I can't find it. At while there may be nothing concrete raiders formative years. Once, he was a little older he did. Engage in some of the telltale criminal activities. The tend to escalate within future serial offenders. But he says he was basically looking being a peeping. Tom Stealing underwear. You know looking at looking at like those detective magazines. They had in the forties that were really graphic. You know even like the ones where people were actually being murdered in the photographs like he so he was a young kid, somehow exposed to that so like. Where did he get those magazines? You know plus it was the fortieth, so he was allowed to run around and do what emory wanted. Nobody was keeping an eye on it. And so some I don't know where he got the magazines up. I was going to say by the time you ten or twelve. He was doing breaking and entering like into his old school he sets. It's worth mentioning even if something had been overtly or clearly wrong, Dennis Rader as a kid pied today's standards. The forties and fifties were such different. Time back then you were either crazy enough to be put into an insane asylum or not. Awareness about more subtle traits of mental illness back then. was basically nonexistent. Now days. If somebody was doing what my dad was doing, we would call it a conduct disorder and they would. They'll get help, or they would be put in Juvie right. It just escalate because no one. Because Dr Nobody was aware and they were, they were stained are non insane. They have massive massive control or not insane at all. They do insane things, but they're not in insane. And so they have massive control, and are capable of keeping families and keeping jobs, and the those are the guys that are extremely dangerous because they don't get caught. They only get caught because like. DNA! People have been looking and hunting them for thirty or forty years, and that's why they're not getting caught. Because they they they don't ramp up to the level of abundance or something like they. They have control. Nine hundred fifty seven demonstrator was confirmed into the Zion Lutheran Church and following his high school graduation he enlisted in the air force and served from nineteen, sixty six to nineteen seventy. And it's becoming less and less surprising to hear that serial killers have spent time in the military, but it does make sense. You're trained to think tactically. You're taught to be regimented militant and to be careful, and you're also taught how to inflict violence so later in a serial killer career Dennis Rader took impeccable notes, and the reason behind this is up for debate, but it's one example of his precision, his malicious nature characteristic, except bled into his murders into his Mo and Dennis Rader was stationed around the world, including countries like Greece Turkey, Japan and South Korea. By nineteen seventy-one Dennis Rader was back in Kansas and he lived at sixty two twenty independence in park city. He worked in the Meat Department at a place called leakers where his mother worked as a bookkeeper. A May twenty second nineteen seventy-one Dennis rader married politics, who was a former classmate of raiders from high school, and at the time she's working as a secretary at the local hospital. Later that same year he enrolled at Butler. County Community College. In nineteen seventy two raider left his job at leakers to work for the Coleman Company a business that produced camping gear as an Assembler. And a glass? This job seems pretty menial, but the significance of this particular job wouldn't be known. Until decades later when rader was outed as bt K., because two two women who worked there would become victims to. When you think about it, a crime is kind of like a puzzle. Each connection helps reveal the big picture, and it's such a thrill to put it all together. 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And it's believed that he learned how to defeat home security systems while they're. While his time at the Coleman Company was now over. It seemed that Raider still kept an eye on two former employees of that company. What are those employees was Julia. Tarot who we told you about at the top of the show. The other one was Kathryn Bright. Let's fast forward to the following year. It's now April. Fourth of nineteen seventy four, when officer Dennis Landon of the Wichita Police Department was dispatched to two three one seven east seventeenth street at five PM. Officers had been called to the scene after receiving a report of a possible shooting when two men saw someone run out of a home covered in blood. The man had been shot in the head, and as he ran from the house, he was yelling. He's now and they're a number on my sister. And when officer land arrived, there was no sign of this man because the men who call the police had left to rush the injured man to the hospital. Not Knowing immediately what he was dealing with officer landing cautiously approached the house. He knocked on the screen door and slowly pushed it open. Officer Landon received no response when he called out asking if anyone was home. Then down a hall and through windows that face onto a back patio area. He could see that there was a young female lying in a pool of blood. He ran to her side. She had blood on her face on her hands in her hair, and there is a pool of blood forming underneath her waist. She also had a severe nosebleed. She was clutching telephone in her left hand. The young woman appeared to be in her early twenty s, and while she was in bad shape. She was still alive, so there was hope. Officer, lands and Astra what happened who had done this to her, and she could hardly muster the breath to respond, but she did lift up her blouse, exposing her abdomen with his riddled with stab wounds. He then asked her if she knew her attacker, she shook her head. No, when asked if she could ID her attacker, she again shook her head. No, but. But one thing could do an ask was till officer land in her name was Catherine Bright she was twenty one years old. It was at this point Catherine started to lose consciousness the officer then rain to the kitchen to get a cloth to help stop her bleeding. He played as much pressure as he could to try to hamper her loss of blood. Catherine had a piece of rope tied around her neck. She had blood-stained rag in her right hand. She had nylon stockings binding her ankles. And she asked the officer to untie her legs in whispered that she couldn't breathe. The officer pulls out a pocket knife and cut the nylons of her legs, and he tried to keep her calm and told her and assured her that an ambulance would be there any second just to hang on. Her pupils slowly started dilating Catherine Skin became colds. It became clammy and she slowly drifted off. into unconsciousness, the ambulance arrived in Russia to the hospital. The house was searched from top to bottom. In the living room just past the front door, there was a small green table. Underneath. The officer noticed a small bag with the contents strewn on the floor. The radio in the living room was on and crackled in the background. Bitten Dory and all. are in Catherine's bedroom. There was a green dresser. The top drawer was jar and was filled with women's underwear. The telephone in this bedroom had been disconnected from the wall. And the radio in this room was on his well. Near the closet, there were two shirts tied to a nightgown. and. The nightgown was covered with blood. And the officers could see something white contrast it against the blood on the nightgown. Human Teeth. A red piece of fabric was tied to the bed. A Greenpeace was then tied to that. As the police continued to look around the bedroom, they observed this turquoise chair with nylon stockings tied to each arm and a large pool of blood on the seat. There is a bathroom that connected to this bedroom. And when police peered inside, they could see a bullet hole consistent with a small caliber handgun. There is a second hole in the linoleum tile bathroom floor. Bullet fragments were also present on this floor. And from everything the police had seen and observed so far. They deduce that Catherine's brother had likely walked into the home as his sister was being attacked, the perpetrator was likely spooked shot Catherine's brother than hastily stabbed Katherine to death before he left. And the scene was processed and police learned that the pickup truck that belong to Catherine's father was missing, and it was found eastbound down the street on the same street of this home in inside of the truck. There was a piece of cord that had been stained with. There was also a stocking cap that presumably this perpetrator had worn. Officers were then sent to the Wesley Medical Center to speak with nineteen year old Kevin Bright was Catherine's brother when they arrive alien that Kevin had been shot twice in the head, and he also had a white cord tied around his neck, and one gunshot blast was to his upper right lip in the second was to his forehead and thank goodness. This is a small caliber weapon, because otherwise huma certainly would not have lived through these injuries. At the hospital, doctors counted five stab wounds in Catherine's abdomen should also been stopped twice in the back and doctors did everything they could try to save her, but she didn't pull through surgery. Kevin struggled to relate officers what had happened and what he had seen, but his speech was intrepid several times due to him, choking up blood, but eventually he was able to give a clear statement. Current Bright said that he had stayed over at his sister's house the night before the attack due to the snowfall, they'd received that day. They ran some errands and when they return to the House at twelve, thirty, pm. The brother and sister had been confronted by a white male with a gun. He forced them into a bedroom. He told them that he was from California and he had no intention of hurting them. All he needed was a car and some money to get to New York. The man ordered Kevin and Catherine into a bedroom Kevin was forced to tie up his sister with her wrist behind her back. He was then tied up himself and moved into the other bedroom. Then the man pair of nylon stockings around Kevin Snack. Kevin believe that this man was about to strangle him to death, so he struggled until he was loose and started trying to fight back, and that's when the attacker shot him twice in the head before kicking him several times to quote unquote. Make sure he was dead. Kevin never consciousness, but was bleeding profusely and in shock he could hear his sister crying out in pain from the other room. Catherine's autopsy reveal that her cause of death was due to her stab wounds as well as strangulation. She'd been choked so hard. That are larynx had been severely damaged. She deep ligature marks on her neck on. And on her ankles, and she had bruises and hemorrhages all over her face from being severely beaten as well. Kevin Bright was badly wounded and enroll just performed emergency surgery to remove the bullet from his head and ultimately his brain. Metal Plate. was inserted. into his skull. One of the wounds, he sustained force survival three teeth. The surgeries were grueling, but he did survive, and he's the only person known to have ever lived to tell of a bt K. Attack Kevin described his assailant as twenty five years old, five feet, eleven, inches, one hundred and eighty pounds of stocky, build and a moustache. He was wearing a black stocking cap a windbreaker. An army coat with fur around the hood and a silver wristwatch on his left arm, the man was wearing gloves and was sweating profusely. The talk unfolded. And so again my father's Mo is strangulation for nine of ten cases, and what have been an attempt. He just got interrupted, so he used a knife. But that was my father SEMO, thirty years and murdered ten including two children. He didn't rape, but he I mean he murdered two kids, and took out a family and murdered seven women after that, so he basically. He switched just women because he realized it was kind of hard to murder. Ban I mean that's how how cold father can be. It would be a while before the police would connect Catherine's murder the Tara family slaying. At this point, there was no reason to suspect serial killer. So many things about these two encounters have been different. There were children involved in the Tara killings for one. There was a gun used to assault Kevin Bright. Catherine had been stabbed. The victimology was all over the place, and the only similarities were there were bindings found on the risk of all of the victims, and also both Katherine and Julie's purses had been dumped out. and not to mention a troubled young man, had confessed the Otero killings and implicated two of his friends, and the Seventy S, this completely eliminated the possibility that these cases could be connected at all and adding to the horror of btk, as murderers was his constant toying with authorities. This guy loved a cat and mouse situation and his first contact with please started with an engineering textbook at the Public Library. Rights because seven months after Catherine Wright's murder on October twenty second of Nineteen, seventy four. Don granger of the Wichita Eagle and Beacon newspaper received a telephone call from an anonymous man claiming that information regarding the Tarot family murderers could be found in a book in the Wichita Public Library. This man immediately called the police to let them know about this call. He just received because it is jarring. In a book called applied, engineering mechanics the police found two page type document within this document included a statement of responsibility for the Otero, murders and attempts to explain a motivation in rationale for committing, said murders and a codename of me T K drive from the words by them torture them kill them. The purpose of this letter was clear to taunt law enforcement. The letter stated the following I. Write this letter to you for the sake of the tax payer as well as your time. Those, three dudes have in custody are just talking to get publicity for the murders. They know nothing at all. I did it by myself, and with no one's help. There has been no talk either. Let's put this straight. Quote. The man who scripted this letter provided gruesome details. Only the killer would now. The police said that these descriptions were incredibly detailed down to the location of specific pieces of furniture. Law Enforcement Guests at the killer must have stood over the bodies. Take notes. Or sketched his handiwork. Or worse, he had taken photos. The letter continued. Quote I'm sorry this happens to society. They are the ones who suffer the most. It's hard to control myself. You probably call me psychotic with sexual perversion. Hang, up. When this monster enters my brain, I will never know. But it's here to stay. How does cure himself? If you ask for help that you've killed four people. They will laugh or hit the panic button and call the cops. The letter continues quote. I can't stop it, so the monster goes on and hurts me as well as society. Society can be thankful that there are ways for people like me to relieve myself at times by daydreams of some victims being torture and some being mine. It's a big complicated game. My friend of the monster plays. Putting victims numbers down following them checking up on them, waiting in the dark, waiting waiting. The. Pressure is great, and sometimes he runs the game to his liking. Maybe. You can stop him. I can't. He has already chosen his next victim or victims. I don't know who they are yet. The next day after I read the paper I will now, but it's too late. Good luck hunting. Yours truly guiltily. The letter was not signed, but there was a postscript. Quote to PS since sex criminals do not change their mo or by nature cannot do so I will not change mine. The code words for me will be buying them torture them. Kill Them. Be T K. You see it here again. They will be on the next victim and you can see where he switches. Like if you go look at human trial. You can see where he switches If. There's two people. He's one person and he's not insane. He's not schizophrenic is not bipolar. It's more that he. He calls it cubing that he just. It's like a dyson. He just flips what side he shows you so that he's always dentist. He's always speak as always dining. Just flipping what I told you about like clicking that uniform that mask of what he wants to mayor like what you're expecting. And so. That's how he explains it. Went as said he thinks ninety percent of my speech K. And ten percents, Dennis Rader and I argue ninety percent is dat, but that's because that's who I know. And if I had ever met the TK, if my family had ever met and we wouldn't be alive. One of the things that I found that was interesting is. We've heard this so many times. I'm not going to hurt you. I just need money for my car. To go someplace, and we know we heard that with Zodiac and we know we heard that with with GSK. Van. I need gas for my van. And then and then at like Barry Esa Zodiac said the same. Thank you know I'm not going to hurt you i. just need need to out of here. DID MONEY FOR? For car so I think it's just. It's strange how this guy knew what he was going to do. He knew he was gonNA. Kill them and. He. Just did it anyway. You know what I mean. They're just giving that example of. You know I I'm not going to hurt. You need money for gas comes up in three famous killers. It's it makes a lot of sense because like it's in those pivotal moments that he's getting control. He just needs them tied up at that. Point it to verse one, so you just want to calm people down in what they always tell women to do. If you're being robbed, give your purse up. Don't fight. Just let them do it like that's what we're all told to do. Don't fight back. Just let them rob you in no. No leave, so he's trying to put them at ease in till therein in bindings, and then the terrorizing starts there you're exactly right, and you hit the nail on the head to because it is to against one. It's yeah and lake. Berry Institute Zodiac. That's that's. That's two against one. He has to get control of the situation and he's just gotTa. Say Listen. I'm just going to tell you that's it. Just GonNa, tell you up. And then he's, he wants he wants. He wants to just be in sleight control, and then he also, it's probably such a thrill for him to see them like relaxed, and not that scared like this is a robbery. It'll be over soon. We can replace this stuff to like Oh my God. This isn't a robbery. You know what I mean like that that like. sort juxtaposition is probably very exciting for him well, and also it's like you will two things one. He probably only needs a couple seconds of time for somebody to relax like you're saying to kind of get in his situation where you can buy them up without too much of a struggle, and then also yeah like you're saying it's just like there's the thrill of them kind of letting their guard down, and if you're in sort of fight or flight situation, and you would just try to fight or fight back or run away if you think it is. If this person is actually attacking you. Maybe you would kind of let your guard down and be like okay well. If I comply what he's doing. He leave me alone at some point. In one of those things that serial killer Sorta, universally, the terror is big for them so. When they when he shot when he surprises them, and he ambushes them in their own home. There's terror. If somebody's in your home, I mean after we did the be the the golden state killer show I imagine someone in my home time thinking about that and there's nothing scarier, so he's already got them tariff terrorize, and it's like, but he wants to bring them back down to calm an up again because it's like he likes to control like. Like his fix that, he's getting from us, which is like tear I mean it's part of torch. He wanted torture in his monitor. Because that is what he's getting, he doesn't rape. He doesn't penetrate. He gets off on the fear of controlling people who are at his will, and it's a huge part of it so I think putting them at ease to just bring them back up to like fighter. Flight is just part of his little games. And, remember what say though if you're being robbed, you take your wallet or your person you throw it and then you see other way. Another interesting thing that I think we wanted to bring up. Is that his writing of the letter? It's the first letter he's ever done. And he did it on the heels of three young people falsely confessing to being involved in the murder. So what do we make of? It's like somebody was stealing his glory and he had to intervene. Yeah I mean obviously knowing what we know about bt Kay. He loves the attention. He loves the chase like he thrives off of that cow cat-and-mouse kind of a game, and in my mind seeing you know, he writes this letter right after somebody else confesses to the crime and is getting probably all this press all this attention. There's probably a huge part of them. That's totally jealous and Watson attention back on him, so he's like no, no I'm going to rewrite the story I'm GonNa. Give you all this other information, so you know the I'm the one that did it and it's so sick and disgusting, but so textbook for him. And Who knows it might be his downfall. Who knows Oh, no one knows what happens we now. It's his fatal flaw and every serial killer has won. His is like Bundy's lack of impulse. Control Beechy as was just. Glaring Narcissism Narcissism. Deangelis was such a pristine mo that it was identifiable. Even without DNA like there's a reason he's been charged with so many crimes even though there's not DNA, it's because he was so militant that every crime was so specific that even just circumstantially you get all this shit like everybody's got one. In today's episode, we discussed the first five murders attributed to be tk. At, this point within bt, case, career of killing Carey hadn't even been born yet, but fatherhood would not soften Dennis. Raiders urge to kill. He refined his techniques here find his Mo, and he got better and more resourceful in concealing his secret double life next week on part two will take you through the remainder of as murderers can examine. The narcissism fueled correspondents that bt continued to initiate with police, which would ultimately be his undoing. All right well, this is obviously one of the most infamous cases in the world, but we always want to tell the untold stories, so if you have a story, you would like to tell. Please email us. Hello at the first degree PODCAST DOT com, you can follow us an instagram at the first degree, Alexis linkletter Johnson at Jack Vanik, join our facebook group by searching the first degree in the search bar. We're talking true crime all the time and stick around because we're GONNA kill some time and reminisced about the last hundred episodes. Remember only you can prevent serial killers. Keep your friends close. Now Orange Chicken. or chicken general sows for life. That's not orange chicken, or yes, it is is. Is it sweet and Sour? is a different type of chicken. Sources, for today's episode include court documents, the Wichita Eagle Kansas Dot, com, the La Times, and as always our first guest is always our largest source. Okay ladies. Well. This one's for you I mean. Is there any worse feeling than when it's that time of the month, and wouldn't you give anything to have a little bit of comfort? Well, that's what I love. Carefree breath so carefree breathe offers a line of skin, friendly pads, panty liners that go beyond leak protection to keep your skin dry and irritation. Free Care Breathe offers irritation production for your most sensitive area. There clinically tested by dermatologists to meet sensitive skin standards and their free from fragrances, dyes and harsh erase since they have an air infused cover. Cover with a soft touch feel and it keeps your skin dry, and for light days reach for their painting liners, and when you need a little bit more protection they've got you covered with their super. An overnight absorbency is I. Love just wearing one of those WanNa. Go to bed. You can barely feel it. And when periods happen, stay protected and help prevent feminine. Discomfort with carefree breathe ultra thin pads, so for more information or to buy check it out on Amazon or Walmart Dot com, or you may find it at your local grocery store or CBS. Did you know that right now. Guy Is offering an extra fifteen percent credit on car, motorcycle and RV policies. That's fifteen percent on top of the money. GEICO could already save you. So what are you waiting for your dog to make you breakfast in bed? As Nice as that sounds, it's probably never going to happen, but Eliecer never been a better time to switch to geico save an extra fifteen percent when you switch by October seventh. Visit GEICO. Dot Com to learn more. All right welcome to of various special episode of killing time. It's our one hundred eighty anniversary episode. I don't know if this is really an anniversary milestone anniversary and I'm telling you I did not think I would make it this long. I thought I would die long before this just in general. Yeah. Human Death It's this is Chris that means. We've only been doing this for two years. Guys I know. It's been like really fast and so in attornal. feels like two decades. Yes, I know. I can't really remember a time where well I really can't remember I didn't Alexis. But I can't remember a time where I haven't known you, billy, you just are such a big part of my life now. Take it easy, billy. And by the way what I could do it a little less of Billie Johnson I'll tell you that. What I. What I went to. What I went back home. Phoenix I had four copies of. How to be a lady from all different independent booksellers had to open. So that's so nice. 'cause. That's the title of the book. Or is it actually? ACT LIKE A lady, yeah! Clearly opened at Philly. Have more. Front wrapped it black came in. And I was busy summer honestly I was going to send it to my nieces who I don't really talk to that often and then. I thought against it, but I gave it to Zoe, so he has you don't WanNa. Be The creepy uncle who doesn't talk. Denise's and then sends a random how to be a lady buck. With tales of sacks and lots of. The cover has vaginas on it like weird book to get from your uncle. That's why I didn't. Know Billy's the creepy uncle. Because like what else would he look? I looked alone. You know what you have, no idea what the other uncles look like so. There probably. Creeper probably normal normal uncle. And your I don't know how young your nieces are, but they're probably slender age, so they probably see the resemblance in our like. My slender ball twenty one years old. Okay well anyways uses. The point of this episode of the point of killing time today. Is. We're going to just take a look back. On the first degree and really reminisce about the highs, the lows, the beginnings you now, the friends the memories, so I think a good thing that we could do right now is just take it back to the very beginning and recording our very first episode, and how terrified I was to do that. You know it's surprisingly good considering we didn't know what we were doing yet. We didn't The format wasn't fully thought out. We. I mean the format and. The, podcast itself I mean it was kind born by the fact that you and I I each I agree stories, and that's what I call them first degree stories, but before we used to just call it. Oh, yeah! I knew someone who. Murdered somebody or I knew someone you know in. It fucks you up a little bit especially as a kid. And Yeah I. Mean I just I. Do love the organic nature of how we came up with the concept, and how it's evolved over the last two years. He's a really. It's a completely different podcast now a great way. With us right and I think it's so crazy that we first started the podcast. We're grasping at straws of stories to do and our podcast isn't like any other true crime podcast. We can't just pick and choose what stories we're going to do and make it like the craziest twisty turny kind of story. We rely completely on I. Guess So. It's crazy to think about where it started from and the stories that we kind of did in the beginning, and where we are now that are hundred episode is bt. K. Like you can't get any more prolific than that story, so it's really it's a kind of a cool full circle moment I think. It's just a matter of that. I think probably maybe ninety eight percent or ninety seven percent of the ones that we've done have been from listeners coming to us. We might have had some opportunities where I've met somebody or Alexis somebody, and then we we broach that, said Hey, we've got this podcast. Would you WANNA come on it? But for the most part it's you know for? For a large majority of it like you said, we can't just go out and pick the most kind of outlandish story. They're all coming from the listeners, and both of you guys I mean can attest to this like you can't just find somebody that knows somebody that was a murderer, and then they're gonNA talk about it like it's so. It's such a delicate process to really. Create a relationship with somebody and have them feel comfortable enough to let you tell their story right Alexis. I do think so I think there's definitely a bedside manner, because when we sometimes get suggestions from people on instagram or people on facebook, encouraging us to cover a specific story I. Tell them if you know somebody connected and have them reach out we don't necessarily want to. Penetrate somebody's life and dredge up some horrible feelings that they were feeling, and it's like Kerry you know. Our I guess for these btk episodes btk as daughter said to me, you know. I didn't talk for fifteen years after his arrest and I didn't want to, and I wasn't going to people. Reaching out to me was just disrespectful. It's like it had to be on. My terms had to be ready. Speaking specifically in reference to. Joseph Angelo's daughters because she was saying if they ever reached out to me, I would love to have like camaraderie with them like these two perpetrators are so similar. It's they were probably just as blindsided his me and she's like everyone should leave them alone like. Let them, grieve, give them privacy because when she's like, she was physically like on the brink. Of a severe like. Oil shock like you have to leave people alone like their whole world comes crashing down when they're this close to something this pain fall, and they assume a lot of that guilt that if there. Carries Dad. Causes Pain like she takes. She takes that guilt on because she's an. Empathetic empathetic person. You know, so. It's like we have to just leave them alone. Because their whole world has ended, and that's how it is with our with our podcast. We're lucky enough that people reach out with their stories. But it is, it's not slim. PICKENS. Be Get a great deal of them. But we really do have to pick with what from what people submit to us, and I think that is the respectful way to handle it. Oh absolutely and like you're saying to about. People needing to leave people like that alone. That are connected to these like horrific circumstances. It's kind of like how you think about celebrities. When something happens to a celebrity, and then everybody just can go and treat them like shit on the internet or whatever it is, it's like you forget. People are human and the situation like this. It's like you find out who bt. K.. Is You find his family? I'm sure she got harassed and his. Just this nightmare where it's like humanity is kind of taken out of these people that are have nothing to do with it, and are innocent themselves, and then to try to pull things out of them on top of all of the. Pain that they're going through is just like. Woah. Yeah I think it's important to remember that people connected to not only victims of violent crimes, but people connected to perpetrators are also victims. If you if perpetrator is coming in enough to outsmart law enforcement for almost forty years, and they're certainly cutting enough to outsmart a child who is under their control. Anyway because he's The dad, he's the man of the House. You sort of the dominant person like you. You craft tire life for your kid. and. People doubt her and and Demonstrators, wife, as to as to their ignorance us what he was doing and I'm just like. I can't believe you guys think these two people would actually stand by and like. It's just it's just a wild thing to suggest like these people we. We can't even imagine how manipulative and cunning sociopaths were capable of murdering. Children are at manipulation. Oh absolutely. Okay Well I. I mean even talked really at all. Though you guys know well I'm just I'm just picking my spots. What's your favorite? What's your favorite episode out of out of all the episodes? We've done billy. I thought Jonestown was was really good. I know those are multi partners John. Sound was so good. We had Jim Jones Junior. And that's also we I. Feel Jonestown was. Not that far from when we ted Bundy was close to the beginning, and then Jonestown was not that far from the beginning, and we had i. mean could not have a closer first degree interview that was when we were in in the office in Studio City, so we've for for those of you just to show you how the sausage is made a little bit. We were in a studio in. Beverly Hills Right, and then we went to a studio in. Studio City than we went to Alexis apartment, and now since we're quarantining, where in our own apartments yeah, the the recording process has evolved quite a lot, and it used to take us about six hours to record a single episode because we'd get so distracted and we'd be catching up. Gossiping we order some Chicken Nuggets. We'd get some drinks. There was a beer tap at one of the places that we recorded at so it was just like endless. Greater greater I mean. What more could you ever want? Jokes getting rid of that? Should I buy it. Yes. What do I do with it? Though just fill, get a keg. Fill it up. Yeah! We can I'm trying to buy a house soon. We can put it in my house I should buy it and just keep it here for a while. Yeah can finish with it, okay. When could you need a K. Greater? I know I should just get like a pony keg. Throw it in there for when people come over. It's a good move. Hangzhou. I'll by. Alexis. What's your favorite episode? I have a few I mean I loved Jimmy Kloss. That's my most recent favorites. I loved Yongle Man I. Love Jodi Arias. I really really liked. Love. John, get. True I I mean first degree Barbara she was one of the best interviews I just think. Personality wise in her her ability to articulate. Especially, a crime that happened in the sixties. Was the most charismatic amazing person, but honestly at bt. K. I love to I just but I. I love all of them. You do love. Yeah I really like. I'm trying to think of some of the lesser known cases that I love but. I don't know I. Just I love it. I like the cazenove killer think. Daughter victims. She was amazing. Her name is crystal. She was an amazing interview to I. Just Really Bonded I loved. Trial by media the. Bob Ward case. I become really good friends with Sarah and Mallory, Ward who wore his daughters were fighting to free him. I Love Sandy Malger I. Still Talk to you all the time we've all become very good friends with Tara knew. All Young Age was a great one. What are some someone's? Oh Yeah. Oh my God. They were Fanta I see. They're all good guys I. Love that one. I think it's so special when we get to do an episode, because usually Alexis does the interviews by herself and they're usually via foam. Because the people obviously don't live in L. A., and now we can't see anybody, but we've had a few episodes where we've been able to do the interview with all three of us in a room with the other people and those are I mean we did Kim Goldman's that way we did tear new wells that way we did pain Lindsay's that way. That way and crystal. Kipper Crossover with Justin From Generation Y. I loved the Chris Christie episode was amazing to I. Love that one. Yeah, that was it was amazing. That was also when so it was his, and then jared's episode around the same time, and that's also on our production value. What really up because jared started working on the podcast, started getting some like really good like sound effects and good music transitions and stuff. Jared was amazing to hit. He had of all of our interviews. I'd say he sounded so sincere. I just remember. He is and I remember recording that in my living room and watching him like he would like stare off pensively and like really think about what he was going to say. I'm like what a guy what a guy look at this guy. He's suddenly right more sincere and your entire life. No, he is the most sincere person I know, but his was interesting, because not only because I just love him because he's the best, but. His. What he had learned from his experience with that was so interesting because it was like jared's. I experience understanding what death and the concept of death is in your life, and I always like those first degrees that have kind of an interesting either perspective, or their connection was really interesting. Ted Bundy episode was phenomenal because you've got to see a story that you know so much about if you're into true crime from like a completely New Light so I love, and we kind of get those interesting perspectives. Me To what was the name of the perpetrator? I I'm blanking I've had a crazy day, but. The one where my my great aunts friends is the family Nyah later and I saw him out like a reunion. He's told me about it. What was his name Williams? William. Bradford Bishop Yeah I love Nazi. New I'm like because I just love. That is the essence of the podcast where it's like I. Go see my great aunt and her partner sauce boyfriend. He's like no Alexis. I hear what you do I. Know this thing. Let me look this up. This is probably. What Mer and then I do let him like God. It's like the most prolific unsolved family later case there in. That case that that keeps increasing, because it is so unknown, and so it happened has lutely bonkers and there's so many like pictures of. Like he was seen in Belgium. and. He was like a CIA operative I'm like this is really good. No it's crazy. I just love I. Mean we've gotTa tell so many cool stories on this podcast and I can't wait to see what the future holds for the rest of them. I I'm with you and we want to say. Thank you to everybody for trusting us with stories and we've never. I will say we'd never had anyone be unhappy. Want their story changed or taken down like we really have our guest backs? As and we have integrity in this storytelling. We don't shame people we don't. Muddle the truth. We don't have an agenda. We just want to help. People get their narrative and you know their story out there. Yeah I think respect is like the number one thing. Exactly. Well all right well time about fifteen forty eight P. P. Full?

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