Astronomers vs Starlink
The fifteen seconds guidance been journal and nine technician sequence. Spence nuts. Three To. Four five. Build, good. Hello once again. Thank you for joining us on this. The space nuts podcast episode two hundred nine. My name is Andrew Dunkley and with me as always is professor. Fred Watson Astronomer Lodge afraid. Lure Andrew, how're you doing? I'm quite well sir. How are you quite well to? Laura Sims, doesn't it and so we can? Go something much more to say. But we carry on regardless and there's plenty to talk about again this week. Including an update on the styling satellite program. A planet discovered by the University of southern Queensland but it's more about how they did it than the discovery itself. That's interesting, and we get a full up a story that seems to be doing the rounds collision between two Black Hulls that looks to have created an explosion of light. That sounds rather spectacular. Will also tackle some audience questions about except planets and this. This one fascinates me. I hope you've done your homework. Quack, matter and stars. I. Thought. That was the stuff of myth, but we'll find out but that's all coming up. We'll start off. Fred with a look at the styling. Satellite Program is an update day. This is I think it is the certainly the tenth launch off starring satellites, which takes the total up to something like six hundred sounds delights in orbit of course. This is the issue that is got astronomers. Hot under under the color all over the world, both professional and amateur, because of the amount of light these spacecraft. Reflect back from the sun and. SPACEX have come to the party on this they have. been very concerned that that's the case, and so they looked town to mitigate this and I think I'm right in saying that this the whole trench of an a believe it was fifty seven. Spacecraft will launch with probably some other payloads in as well as a fifty seven of the styling centralize, but this whole trench of them now employ uses what's. What SPACEX is calling well. The cooler satellites visor sat because they'd go to visor assum visor. To Stop, the direct line of the sun illuminated the antennas of the spacecraft and hence. Causing, a bright reflections or causing pollution for astronomers trying to see this. These apparently are made of a of a foam material. A DARK Foam like material that. Has No effect on the radio signals that are being transmitted, but will basically. You know prevent the. Certainly reduced the amount of light that comes from each space craft, as it reflects sunlight, so their effect is yet to be seen. We might expect to see some observations of this trench of fifty seven spacecraft going across. Across the sky with advisors, and it'll be great if nobody sees anything. So we're. Seeing, isn't it? Because in the past people have photograph, these lines of lights in the sky and we've had a few amateur astronomers messages to that. They've had issue with satellites while trying to do. Asteroid Photography and if indeed they have managed to come up with a solution for that and we did talk about that I think last time few weeks ago that they were considering these it will be just a fantastic effort and and and that that's got to be a positive thing a very much, so yeah, so we'll. We'll wait to see what the verdict is as it's a good story done. Suppose, we'll. We'll now in the next little while one take long shouldn't do. Probably before this before this episode of space. Wise, but anyway long long does it take for them to deploy fifty seven satellites It's it's a pretty rapid process and you know what has. Has. Almost alarm people in the past when they went to of what was going on here. He's a stream of up to sixty spacecraft in a line across the sky. Very, very interesting stuff. Yes, that's what I'm saying photos. Often it does sort of catch you off guard and I've seen a few posts where people have said what is it? What is it? Can someone told me and and others in the? No, that's Iowa. That's spice ex blah blah. and. And, there is so this time. Perhaps no one will say anything. We be great if nobody sewing, yeah. Fingers crossed. all right. That's good news. Let's let's move onto this planetary discovery by the University of southern. Queensland to put. I know the stories about maybe how they did it, but do. We know much about the planet at this stage? Yeah, we do it's. It's a really interesting story. Andrew because it's a very strong Australian flavor of there is a strong exoplanet Group University of southern Queensland people most of them. I know pretty well because it worked with many of them. Before on. A observatory in. A spring in New South Wales University of southern. Queensland has. A tree to place called Mount. Kent it's DOC's guy site, which means that they'll be delighted that the SPACEX satellites have been com because it would. Defendants from that. Eight. Essentially a planet discovery. Facility Is used in tandem with necessary task satellite the transiting EXOPLANET survey satellite. Basically. University of southern Queensland provides backup facilities, and that's exactly what's happened in this particular story. Sorry, you asked me about the story. Sell the planet itself which getting to that. It is cold. A you microscopy, which means it's in the constellation of microscope microscopic. Say Making. Ea You me. Chris Copied is Latin pronunciation, or usually a you make. It sent that H-how Australian. Is that Fred? Well, is that that it? This she. Australians have a reputation for abbreviating. Michael Becomes Meek, so this is now planet meek, this planet make with actually quite right because he's a you make a you is a designated that tells you. It's variable star, but it also means Ustralia so. Does, Everything going for it so there it is. Why is this very? This is a young variable star. Why is it been trust because he has a dust? Debris disk around it, so it's this is what we call a protoplanetary disk. Our Son had one once upon a time. Solar System grew within that as they particles have dustin. The debris stuck together by this process cold accretion. Got! It it has been known to have this disc of debris, but now what has happened is a a planet has been found within within that disk, so it's young, as said only twenty to thirty million years old, compared with a four point, six billion years our solar system. and. The the the planet has been discovered by the tests spacecraft the transiting. Planet Survey Satellite. which noted, dipping the styles brightness, the planet passed in front of it. So, that's a fairly standard. That's how tests works, and how many of the exoplanets that have been discovered the moment of being found, but what then was able to happen, was that because the University of southern Queensland as this link with tests facility. The information was basically a pasta over to to the of Toowoomba US Q.. Who used that telescopes? Which is actually a? Part of a a support network called. Minerva Australia Sakarov won't be nerve is an acronym for. Is a fairly large consortium. And as I said with telescopes at Mount can't near to MBA so the US. Q. Astronomers use that telescopes, not only to check these measurements of the of the change in brightness of the of the of the star, but also to carry out what's called the doppler wobble method which you and I talked about before smell under so you use the light from the star. You can split into components. Spectrum colors not reveals this Barcode of inflammation which is imprinted by the elements in the atmosphere, the star, but by making very accurate measurements of the issue. Can you can? You can work out the motion of the Star itself as he's pulled around by the planet and so A. Are Some has. Some moves backwards and forwards slightly as as the different planets in the solar system. Move Around Principally Jupiter that does that, but the other planning to. So that is now being observed with the The mount can't telescopes and basically. It means that you you actually extract much more inflammation because he can, he can determine the mass of the off the transiting planet. You can also determine. By looking how far it dips the light of its parent star, you can also determine its size a Nike Zeus density which tells you something about its nature. This one is is a neptune. Star Neptune sized planet, unlikely to be a home for life, but nevertheless part of the giant picture of exoplanets that we are building up now it's well over four thousand been discovered, so we live in a golden age of the planet discovery, and this is just another way in which these things can be. You know that they can be characterized. Yes, indeed, so they ended up confirming with both methods, transit and noble. That's right exactly. I I know about the Doppler global effect Mr Short Pat on Saturday because of that. Nasty stuff. To Watch on the Gulf coast. Oh. Yeah, there's a lot of Doppler bobbling going on. It's terrible. It's my excuse for everything. Well, that's A. that's a discovering doing some good work up they by the end of it now. The paper that Scott in the journal Nature which is the leading. Science Journal published in the UK. The team from. Very long list of authors in this in this pipe, which also includes people from University of New South Wales. Notice Christina's names Ed courses, an old colleague of mine used to be at the of Jaunty. Henry's one of the lead people are to. Mount Thompson between the US Q., so a lot of friends and colleagues are in this large number of authors for this paper. John Johnny wouldn't be South African woody. He comes from not very far from where I grew up. He's got an accent. That's not that different from mine. Believe Okay interesting well John. I should say very much a northeast of England diminutive. Except when you get to new costliest John. because. John Demand I The. And mant map canton one of the. Mount Kenton one of the most horrible pots of strike at the dialing dance. What a hideous looking! Straight. Think you'd better explain the. UPSET PITS! It's absolutely beautiful, Rolling Hills and green valleys, and just glorious, just a beautiful part of the world, not only just over the border. Why didn't we snaffle that? When we drew up the maps, Fred live now at he. Probably Anyway. Well I am New South Wales. The state way leaving us to encompass all of Australia brought to the west destroying border. And someone decided to carve it up and that guy, Queensland, best fit I'm pretty, unimpressed to be honest. But anyway, that's the way it goes. That's awake is. You're listening to the space. Nuts podcast with Andrew, Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson. Space nuts now if you'd like to become a premium member of the space, nuts soup cost franchise were at Santa Series You can do that by visiting our website. Spice Not Stop Super, CASS TECH and yeah about it there there I their monthly plans. This is this is if you want to put something back into the podcast, which is completely optional, asked a super cast member. You get access to the back catalogue with new episode debris wake weekly new episodes exclusive bonus I. Am I content and it's one hundred percent commercial free, though if you'd like to look that up you can go to a website and and check it out The you is space. Not Start Super Cass Tech. But you can also funded. Had All these works well rump standard websites space nuts podcast dot com. And thank you to patrons we be adding some bonus material in the next week. Ozo-. Now Fred, let's move on to this story. That's certainly been hitting the headlines in many many publications, and that is the collision that's been reported between two black holes, which may have caused an explosion of light now. That a little bit more significant than a fireworks display. Yes, that's right I mean. You know this is A. Little bit like the the story we've just talked about. Excuse me. The planet discovered this is. Highly collaborative event between many different institutions, some of which are very very different in their. Style of observing. The made a discovery that as well it's a world I. It's the first time this sort of thing has been observed a pair of black holes, merging but producing a light signal so. Okay. Let's get back to basics by Kohl's merging. You basically need a gravitational wave detector and we now have working gravitational wave observatories. The Go facility in the United. States operated by the National Science Foundation the laser in. Two. Waves, observatory and European version, which is called Virgo, these instruments have been operating together for a number of years now and actually producing gravitational wave. detections most of which of from either merging black holes, all merging neutron stars, all merging black holes where the neutrons. And yes, you can characterize them. Quite accurately by looking at the the the wave pattern of the gravitational waves, as they pass through the earth, because what we're talking about here, he's. Shaking space that comes about when a when a large Massey's accelerated way way off in the depths of space, but it shakes base around it that causes waves submit like dropping a pebble in palm. The? Only bit like it, but it's a bit like that, and you can detect the ripples. Go Past and looking at the details of those ripples. These wall tells you what you're actually seeing. It is an astounding. Scientific Discipline The busy merged since we've actually been able to detect these gravitational waves, so two black holes merging don't. Cause any light. Normally because that black. What they do. is they spiral around each other? And then. Merge into a large a black hole which itself. Like two precursors, he's also black, and so you don't get a light flash until now. And there's an event is. An event which I love, the name GW nineteen zero five to one G. That tells you it's. An event gravitational wave event that occurred on the the twenty first of May Twenty nineteen so second until now to analyze the results. And get them out, but it turns out that on that day and at the time of the event. Excuse me another completely different style of telescope. Which is at the Palo Observatory near San Diego, and if I remember rightly, this is based on their Schmidt Telescope, which is effectively twin. The Schmidt Telescope. We have siding Spring Observatory here in Australia. What used to be called the phone in Schmidt? Two of them one in. One here in Australia now. The won't to me to Schmidt. So they can take up right this instrument. And I'm pretty sure talking about the right telescope. If I'm not, somebody must excuse me. this Vicki transient facility is essentially a wide field imager the looks for transient events things it. Takes place over a short length of time. He's named after Fritz Vicky who. Is actually the person who discovered matter among other things. He was a a twentieth century astronomer, sadly now no longer with us, but a character and a half according to all accounts. The Zad ethics called is Vicky transient facility actually observed a flash of light at the same point. The this gravitational wave disturbance seemed to come from until that. That gives you essentially a puzzle. You can look at the you know the shape of the gravitational wave measurements you can determine the what you're saying is not neutral, stance colliding, but two black holes colliding, but then you've got the the enigma of the fact that they produce to Flash, and so the office of the paper that has resulted from this suggests that the the two black holes themselves which. Probably quite large of order of ten times, the mass of the sound that sort of size, but they suggest these two black holes were in orbit around each other, but together were in orbit around. A supermassive black hole in other words sibling in the central. City, that's millions of times, the mass of the Sun, and and has it agreession disc around. It's got this disc of Gassin. Stars and bits of debris that it's kind of sucking in. And so the suspicion is that these two black holes which is part of the swelling massive stuff going round the big black hole. When they merged. They essentially provided an acceleration of the merging accelerates the final black coal which may have. Essentially somehow plowed. The woods plowed through the disk of gas, causing it to light up. Sounds like a complex story, but it seems to be the best that you can do. In, terms of trying to understand why to merging black holes would give you ally signal, and it's all about the environment that they're in if they're in a dense environment with. Swelling material going around a bigger supermassive black hole. Then you can create this flash blinds. And so what the oath is suggesting is that you know given what we now can detect to gravitational wave. telescopes detectors. Basically we've got a new way of centrally studying the black hole population, generally if you look for merging black holes in orbit around big events, which is what this event saves to been so. They. Very excited about this. Is One footnote in the paper, and that is is kind of a bit of a disclaimer really because. Although the conclusion of this of this paper is that that light-flare that was picked up. Vicki transient facility. Although, that ace very likely to be the result of this black hole merger. There there are other possibilities and you know you can imagine that it could have been just a chance occurrence of two things in the same direction, whichever completely independent source one of them gives a flash. The other gives the gravitational wave. Signal but nothing to do with each. I I. Be Very. Unlikely but it's always a possibility is not likely to, but yes, they they. They say they cannot completely rule out of the possibilities. Fair enough fair enough, but as we've discussed before with the gravitational wave detection capabilities, we now have early days in terms of what we're finding and how it detecting those things and the combinations of factors to create gravitational waves so. As you, said we. We've got signatures that indicate to. Emerging to neutron stars, merging or a neutron star, merging with Blackhall, but this could will be two black holes merging, Indus- class so. What else could what else could possibly happen? Exactly. So you know it's. The way whatever the whatever the calls is this is. This is. You know it's a big step forward. I think as well just to perhaps give it a little bit more credibility I think. Theoretical astronomers have of already realize that maybe such events could happen that you can get. A A black hole merger the IFS aligned Flash before the this one was detected in other words. They strong as they think outside the box, they budget all kinds of scenarios Maybe they're thinking about this beforehand. and. This is the first confirmation that I'm not quite sure that was the order in which things happen, but that's very typical of the way. Stroud works. Okay well. They might be more to learn on this. I'm sure they'll be doing a lot of analysis on that data and keeping their eyes open for. More gravitational wise and who knows what will learn from those which I. Think is what I said last time. That's that's the way it is. That's just the way it is at the moment. the IT's sort of one of the fresher areas in science and and a stormy so It's definitely at what's this spice scenario? Because this seems to be an accelerating amount of data coming out of the gravitational wave detection technology. You're listening to the space and that's podcast with me. Andrew Dunkley and of course Fred Watson. Base nuts now if you would like to send us a question and see if you can stump. Fred we'll call it. That's what we'll call the segment from now on I think. Can you stump freight You can send your questions to us the regular way by Messenger or a mile or something like that bar. Var website all you can go to website and click on the I. Am I. Link at the top of. Of the page and record your question in an audio form. We love to hear your voices. We've had some great questions from people and and know it's nice to actually hear from you literally, so you can do that at spice. Nuts podcast dot com space, and that's PODCAST DOT COM whether they can check out astronomy daily. The spice now shop bookshop, but the I link up the top. We'll give you access to the. Audio recorder, you just got to have a microphone on your device, but it'll work on a smartphone at work on tablet, and if you've got a laptop, they usually have microphones built in But if you've got a desktop with mark of unattached in on that, too, so it's pretty simple and we'd love to hear from you quite. Quite literally love to hear from you. Now Fred. Let's get to a couple of questions now. Audio questions wake, but we have one from a from Alex Putin Leo Hyper I'll have pronounced that correctly Alex. thank you question. Hi, Andrew and Fred. I have a question about exile planets. Not Accept Planets directly, and we measure the Mass and yearly bits via the wobble technique and the dipping lot technique whereby the stars lot dimmed slightly when something allegedly passes in front of it hacking. We possibly know if it's one planets mass. We're measuring Shelia stars wobble could only be linked to a Con Concentration of Mass on one side of the star. Does that even tell us how many exoplanets that style has? And if one was viewing our own solar system from Alpha Centauri using the transit technique then doesn't one nate to try and the telescope constantly at asked the best part of one hundred years. Plus. In order to recall the dips in brightness of most of our planet's parking in front of the sun, logically one must stay asks on for years from Alpha Centauri in order to catch the passing in front of Asana Nave four measure planets, mass and distance, perhaps from the Sun Is that what planet hunting telescopes do stare at the same system or patch of sky for over year? If they die, then have? Can we ever hope to discover earth like planets that I close? Close that are not close to their son's red dwarfs, and not the best candidates earth like planets Is it possible to discover planets in bigger orbits? If we haven't had time to watch vs and used to catch the second dip in brightness, anyway would love. would be great to hear your thoughts. Keep up the good work, Alex. it's a long question and I think we've already touched on in this episode. In terms of the wobble technique and the transit technique. But. He brings up some good points. How long is long enough to make way the discoveries? You hope to make exactly so what Alex says he's absolutely right. It's not a quick process. And okay. Let's imagine the scenario that he. He mentions that if you're looking. At our solar system from will said distance of Alpha Centauri. Let's say you're looking. In the direction, the all the planets would pass in front of the some. than. What what happens, is you you? You basically have to look for a long time. you, you watch how the styles brightness changes and in many of the. Planetary Systems that have been discovered. Yes, this is what we've seen. We've seen multiple dips and some of them are different debts by that main, the talking about a big a planet blocking the light of its parent star, so the light dips. Then you know he electric dips again, but it's a deeper this time. What you what you wind up doing is recording all these different. Dick's perhaps from several different planets. If it was also assisted Jupiter Saturn, the gas, the ice giants. All of them would give a different depth, and they would be on a different cadence. That's to say the different spicing in time. You need to watch our solar system for a very very long time to make those discoveries you know hundred years, plus that's right because you Jupiter's GonNa going around in twelve years In order to. To a volley us. Validates is the word I'm looking for in order to validate planet discovery I. Think you have to see it. It's like dip three times. I think that's the standard, so that's thirty six years with Jupiter. This is. This is why? Most of the planets that have been discovered so far are orbiting around Red Dwarf Stars which much less massive than our some, and so that the planet said closer in that nearer to their parents staff, so they have show two years of that makes it much easier to pick up. It's why we often see things with a with a year of just a few days. Because he can pick up this this this tip after not very much length of time in observing. and. Yes is one of the limitations so the test spacecraft which we talked about a few minutes ago I. Think if I remember. Alex Alex's right. They stare at a patch of sky. Looking for the dips in brightness, and I think with tests, it looks at each patches guy for if I remember on its twenty seven days, which is not a very long time when you're talking about things in Hobart surround around stars, but what you can then do is if you find a star that has clearly has a planet passing in front of it, so you've observed one dip then you can go to other observatories. Down, there are now dedicated to tell us coax, which will focus on just one star, a look for the change in brightness, overload period, and in fact, that's all being turned out to citizen science as So much is now could do this with their own telescopes the. Technology has come on by leaps and bounds. And okay, the just throwing in a little bit of the end. Alex Talk to the beginning of this question about the doppler wobble effect the fact that as as a planet goes around a stop, it pulls the Saas. Slightly one when the other once again if you've got multiple planets that pulling and pushing gets more complicated than so you get is what we call a radial velocity curve that's. The ashamed of the the line of sight velocity of the star over time. And with a single planet, just a regular up down curve, but if you've got more than one planet that gets really complicated, it's got little steps in jumps and bumps and things of that sort, but once again you cannot she allies those and tease out exactly what it is. You're looking at and discover multiple planets, so it's a long process is a complicated process, but it does work. Yes, I! We know it does because we've as you said Fan I've four. Such except planets, but it also indicates to me based on this hit and miss approach I suppose that four thousand planets is probably drop in the ocean in terms of what we've already areas, spice will already observed this probably for every planet. We have found if we use our solar system as an example, probably six seven more that we haven't seen. Absolutely. That's right the smaller ones. Present technical techniques for determining or discovering planets. They're not sensitive to small planet. It's more planets, hundred and fifty million years when this parent star like the Earth is. The US will be very hard to detect. Abide the techniques that we're using the moment, but over time those technologies the techniques are improving so. Yes earth like planets certainly on the agenda, but Once again it tends to be red. Dwarf styles of there will be seeing around. He's right Dwarf Stars by far the most common style, the galaxy so. That's another reason why the. Why the discovery has been? Has Been basically skewed towards those kinds of sounds. He mentioned Alpha Centauri as an observation point Val system and The process and the time it would take to fund the planets orbiting ass on. I recall I think that we have discovered. A planet or maybe more than one planet in the Alpha Centauri Region, have we? Yes, that's really yeah, and in fact I think Proxima is supposed to have an earth like planets around is not very proxy is the nearest of those styles the Alpha Centauri Stars? It's not a don't think it's a very firm observation if I remember rightly but. There is a suspicion that there's a the reserve A. Planet orbit around Proxima Centauri. One one more loose any for me. Sorry if you were an office. You see the planets of the solar system crossing in front of the Sun because you're in the wrong direction, which is why I think aside. From, a star of the distance of Alpha Centauri. You know The office until he is well away from the plane of the solar. System Oh okay. Yes, of course, but. You Never GonNa see. The Solar System's planets crossing the song from direction, but there are other directions you would see from. Yes indeed Mora Alex. thank you for your question. well asked, and hopefully we gave you an adequate answer. Here on spice now, afraid, let's move on to our next question. This one comes from John Pits Hello, from a Walloon Queensland Andrew Fred I have a double bunks for you. Or maybe it's the same question twice. they was a recent announcement of evidence that neutron stars may contain something cold crack matter in there 'cause. I hadn't heard of this before. Can you please tell me what quack matter might be I? Know it's in saw. Golf Bowls I'm guessing it's sent even more dance, matter or state of matter than that in the neutron star also in the past week it's been announced the gravitational waves from a collision between. Three solemn mass black holes in an object of two point six solar masses. They subject is heavier than neutrons. Daza supposed to be and lighter than any blackhall previously observed it could be a small blackhall hall or a Neutron Star or something else one of the possible something else. Candidates is quack star, which I suppose is made entirely of the aforementioned quark matter. How could a crack Astara differ from a neutron star? No geez brought up something very juicy and interesting and something. We certainly never talked about before John. That is quack, matter and quacks stars. So you fred. Okay so. A. Among the funded bent, the fundamental building blocks of matter until the standard model. Matter involves. Actually sixteen particles seventeen. If you include the Higgs. Boson which is the particle gives all this mess so therefore force particles. There are six towns which include things like electrons and museums. These you know basically smallest atomic particles, and then there are six clocks, and the that not together makes up the sixteen plus one particles of Subatomic matter. What I love about Kwok's is the names that they've got they. Six quarks have got different names. They're up down top bottom, charm and strange. Could, break. They're different, so they asked specifically. You know individually determined. A components of the building blocks of matter that what you and I made of you've got. A strange quark India. Doug Justice. System is probably well well in other places as well so anyway Kwok's. The components of things like protons and neutrons, and that's really the. You know the the number of the matter when it comes to two stars, so we recognize. Several states of what's called degenerate matter in in astronomy and the characterized by its. Quacks. Sorry missed the word the. Age. Quacks. Degenerate Meta. Wasn't degenerate when I was a teenage. Boys. So. Okay, what's degenerate matter is matter that's in a very unusual state, and the you know the the the example. Most of US think of a white dwarf stars. which are? In fact, that's the product of the cell. The Sun will wind up as a wine. Something with almost a massive of the song, but which is about the size of the earth. So an compressed to such density that it's only the outward pressure of the electrons, the this stopping it from collapsing to a to a another stage of density, so this is called electron degeneracy when the electrons are walks holdings, stuff apart the next stage If it's more massive than point, four times mass of the sun, then it will continue collapsing until it gets to what we call neutron degeneracy, where just the pressure of the neutrons is stopping collapsing further, and that's a neutron star so. These are. Of the Order of ten to twenty kilometers across, but once again with the massive starring them. Exactly. As a as a Sorry John was was saying sorry John. A mixed you without ex. exactly as John was saying That is that's the kind of typical picture of what we imagined to be the the most dense kind of star, and until now they have been thought not to exist more than about twice the mass of the sun the thinking has been that. If you get a neutron star with more than two solar masses of matter, and it will continue, its gravitational collapses the force of gravity that does this of course pulls it down to be a black hole. And nothing could keep. You can stop it from collapsing into that. So, what put a spanner in the works? Exactly as John says is a observations made recently, which seemed to suggest that the neutron stars which are more massive than not to Sola mass limited in particular one of a soda massive two point six, a sorry, a massive two point six solar masses. So what is it? It's somewhere between a black hole and the neutron star, or is some something else. That's where the idea of quark stars comes aim to. Pitch? because. The. Work, this has been done. Thanks John for pointing this out. In the University of Helsinki and elsewhere is. Done by a zero theoretical group that. What they are suggesting is that a neutral styles might be more complicated the we told. A. They might have a structure now. We know that already through previous work, which suggests that neutron stars in the outer layers of probably go a high proportion, hot propulsion of protocols as well You've got to have protons that somehow because they things highly magnetic neutrons magnetized. So there is the thinking that's. A neutral stone might be a bit like you know in orange with announce. ALANTHEA's is rich in it protons than a neutral a neutral coal. But the new suggests that maybe more to it than we thought. They might have a clock call at the center of a neutral style, so you've got this. Change in density from the outside to the edge and in the middle, you've got this really exotic stuff, which is kind of predicted by theory. That Kwok Matair things that are only stop from turning into a black hole by the clocks themselves, the ups, the downs, the bottoms, tops, and chums strange older might not all of them, not enough of a particle physicists to know which which is prohibited which allowed. So my bright's only about this is yeah. Great stuff people have talked about quoc sauce for long time, but this seems to be the first time that it's really come into the into the regime of something that is worth falling rather than something that is highly speculative. It's still pretty speculative, but it looks as a it's heading for the mainstream, and certainly this group in Finland think the styles this exotic state of matter. might well be a very likely outcome. There's a quotation here. By one of the lead scientist, simply work which is, there is still a small, but non zero chance the Dole. Neutron Stars are composed of nuclear matter alone. What we've been able to do however is quantify what this scenario would require. Insure! The behavior of dense nuclear matter would then need to be truly peculiar. For instance, the speed of sound would need to reach almost out of light. So this what they're saying here is this is a scenario where when you don't have the quarks why you've just got new. Trump's of what he says, is he? Get Very Peculiar outcomes so I? Think everybody is leaning towards the idea that maybe maybe we are starting to discover stops. While it's possible. We classify some stars as quack, rather than whatever they are at the moment, rather neutrons rather than massive neutron stars. That's right, yeah! fascinating interesting. NAS to open a new door on space nuts to and appreciate the question Thank you John Wasn't that. If sending constellation hundred. Break as well. It is it's. Starting to get into the. Well I suppose this is you wouldn't call it science fiction, but it's science theory but it's now starting to sort of crack into the reality sort of things in might become yeah, as you might become a mainstream. and. IF I can make some more discoveries in more. You understand more about what's going on. It's It's just one of the fascinating things about astronomy that just keeps throwing up all those curveballs that you've got to try and figure out and. More and more questions to answer that that's what elevate kept going and diller. No questions left to answer which could take a long time. Yeah, lest you. Must possibly. but anyway thanks John Appreciate the question and hope you well up in Sunny Queensland. And staying Saif Let's just about it for us for another week. Fred, thank you so much. It's a pleasure. Oh was good to stretch the brain. We'll see you. Feels quite stretched or right catch very soon, Fred Watson! At Lodge and don't forget to visit us. If you're a facebook, follow on the space nuts facebook page we have quarter following NAB. You might also like to join the space, and that's podcast group on facebook and talk to each other, because that's what the group was created for so that space nuts fans could all get together and Chit Chat about astronomy and share they re astronomical photographs and just That have come across. It's it's a great platform to keep in touch with each other. What I consider that or you can do what I do and wait till the next edition of space nuts I'll see you then. Notes To this. Available at Apple, podcast Google podcasts spotify IHEART radio and your. Plan, you can also straighten on demand God stealth. Quality podcast production from thoughts dot com.