Pastors Are People, Too
Welcome to the road home to you. I am brandy Gable. You guys. I have a very special episode for you. Today. This was the episode that we had missed a couple of weeks ago, because an emergency came up and my dear guest had to go and help friend in need. But she's in the studio with me today. And she is my dear friend. Dottie Thorson Dadi. Welcome to the studio. Thank you. It is really good to be here. I'm glad we were able to reschedule this metoo. I always delighted so dotty is the wife of the former pastor of the church, I go to, and our churches merged. What was it like four years ago? Four or five years ago. Yeah. K- and so we were both in we were in separate churches. And they were both kind of pretty small and struggling at that, at that point. And. Your husband, Greg, and our pastor, Greg decided to get together and see about a church merge. And the churches went for it. And it did. We've been flourishing wonderful. It's been such a good thing. Definitely. And apparently, it was only afterwards that, that, that it was discovered like after the merge. It already happened that, that church merges the majority of the time don't work out. Exactly. So so we've been very blessed in that. And so, so we're gonna talk about what it is, like, as a pastor's wife and being in that role and, and being alongside ministering next to your husband in that role. But I, I want our audience to kind of get to know you just as a, you know, outside of pastoral stuff. So you've been a teacher. Tell us that I, I was a teacher for about twenty six years growing up. I said the one thing I would never be would be teacher over. Really? Yes. But I ended up doing that anyhow and -solutely loved it, and I still substitute teach to this day because I just love being around the kids and not having to worry about politics. Now, why did you decide that you didn't wanna be teacher? My mother was a teacher. My mother-in-law was a teacher. My aunt was a teacher. I was just kinda surrounded by teachers and. It was just was never something that I thought I wanted to do. Interesting, interesting. I always said I'd never live in Utah, and then I married and lived in Utah for three years. It's funny. The things that guy's definitely. Oh. You don't think so. Okay. Right. I also swore I'd never liked onions. And now I do moon. So okay, so you've you taught for how many years then about twenty six twenty six and Utah. What grade elementary elementary elementary. Yes, started off as a reading specialist and then did first grade and then fourth or fifth grade. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Excellent. And you've been retired now for four years. Okay. Excellent. And then and then Greg, your husband retired, just a couple years ago after thirty nine years of ministry. Wow. Yeah. So you guys are just footloose and fancy free. Most of the time, getting there, maybe. So, so tell us. Tell me this. If you were if it was the end of the world, and like post-apocalyptic, everybody is gone, you living in a bunker and somehow you have power k we don't know how this is happening, but you have power dot he's laughing at me. Not a question. I thought I would get out. Nope. I know. And you could only choose either one movie or TV show series. It could be a movie series but you know what I mean? Like just one thing to watch on Luke for the rest of your life. What would it be? You really should have asked me this like two days ago. So I actually think of. I thought about texting you and then I was like, nah. You know, the two that come to my mind, which they say, should you know, say what comes to your mind, right off hand is the TV show, mash. Okay. And the TV show friends. All right. Thank both. Uh-huh. That'd be very different. So you kind of go back and forth. Okay. But you can only choose one. I can only choose one. What can I just sneak one of my pocket because that's not the way orcs in my world? Then I would have to say if it was post-apocalyptic, it's not going to be a very happy time. Yeah. So probably friends. Yeah. Because then you feel like you've got buddies with. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And they'll make you laugh and remember the good times, right? Yeah. That's good. I like that. That's a good answer. All right. What is what's your favorite book that you've ever read? Let's really interesting because I am not a reader. Okay. I was a reading specialist for thirteen years. I never grew up reading I was the go outside and play. And but I think my favorite book or actually be a series of three books where the borrowers. About this little family of little people that live underneath a house, and they just borrowed things that they needed from, from the family. And so, anytime something was missing in our house growing up. It was the borrowers that had it and would always try and figure out what they were using it for. Oh, how fun. Yeah. So that was my favorite series of books growing. Who do you remember actually have them at home? Probably packed away. No. Don't okay. I'll have to look that up. That sounds really really, really good series sweet. All right. And then one more question. Real quick is if you. Could have any like dream job that you didn't like actually have what would it be? What would be your dream job looking back? Yeah. Or currently early. My first degree was in recreation. And I've always thought it would be fun to be a vacation planner who you know, to take, you know, sit down with a family or a couple or single whatever and, you know, okay, what do you want to do in, and plan out, so not, not just a travel agent more of K. This is what you want. This is what you're buzzed budget is let me plan it out for you fun. Yeah. That would be fun would be a lot of fun because then he'd have to travel to all those places to know all the good spots. I like it out of a lot of fun. Yeah. So I always thought that would be would be a lot of fun. Hey, here's an idea. How about you and I started? Unfortunately now. So many people just go online. Yeah. You know, you can't find everything online, yet word of mouth is really important when you're traveling, I think getting getting those local recommendations and stuff. I know when I was in. When I was in Australia, we were in this little town and. One of the. One of the things that we did. It was a fishing community. And so every night all the locals would go out onto this peer and fish for dinner. And so it was I mean, it was really kind of pretty touristy town. And there were a lot of tourist things to do. But we just went out to the piers and hung out with the locals and it was so great. We didn't fish for dinner. But, you know, just sat down with the locals we learned just on a cruise in the Caribbean last fall. And we were Ananta we'd taken us small catamaran trip out to another island and great day. And then on the way back in the crew is, what made the whole day on the way back, one of the gals just throws a line out the back of the catamaran, and it's like, what are you doing? I'm fishing for dinner. That's awesome. And sure enough by the time we got back to, you know, the main harbour as she got a couple of fish, and that was going to be here dinner. That's also like it. Well, we should probably get crack what we're here to talk about. So we're gonna talk about, like I said earlier about being a pastoral in in a pestworld position. And specifically being a pastor's wife. So you had said that Greg was in that he was a pastor for thirty nine years. Is that correct? And in that thirty nine years. How many churches were you guys at we were only two that's what I was thinking, only to you're very blessed to only only be at two and not have to move around a lot. Yeah. And you were at this church that, that we, here's yeah, that's crazy. That's a really uncommon thing. I think it is very uncommon a little bit of that is because of our background, both Greg. And I were born and raised in the military. Okay. Dads are both in the air force. And so when we had, when Greg was in seminary, and he had made the choice to become a pastor. We actually. Had the opportunity to choose the denomination, we wanted to go into because in the military on base chapels your Protestant Lutheran or Catholic, and we always had chaplains of all different nominations. And so, when we were looking at denominations, one of the big things for us was the fact that we didn't want to be in a denomination, where a Bishop or someone above you chose one in, where you moved we wanted to be Incan. Well, hopefully we've got help wanted to control of that. Yeah. That was one of the reasons why, you know, we were able to stay so long each place. Yeah. And so the church that we're at is a, a Presbyterian church and the Presbyterian church has kind of undergone a split. We're part of the eco group, which is evangelical church. Of the Presbyterians, I think, okay, no evangelical. Covenant order of the Presbyterian. Okay. I never remember what is dance for just tell people's. I don't know. I mean EKO Presbyterian. Oh, do you go hug trees like that? Yeah. Yes. Sometimes I do. So when you and Greg met was he already kind of on that track? No, not at all. We met at high school. Okay. So we were high school sweethearts. He was always very much of a Christian leader on campus. Okay. You know. And so then we both went to the same college, and it was his senior college he decided he wanted to go to seminary, but did not even know at that. And we were already married at that time, did not know at that time. Whether or not he wanted to pursue a pastor not. He just knew that he wanted more of the spiritual training. Okay. And so it really wasn't until his, we were at seminary fuller, seminary and Pasadena for four years. And it really wasn't until his second year that he really felt then call to become a pastor mom, and when he told me that my first reaction was that's never gonna work because I don't sing. I don't play the piano, and I don't want to teach Sunday school every week because that had been my image of a pastor's wife. Yeah. And so it was a little bit of a getting used to the fact in seeing what that role was going to be like, for us. Well, and that was one of the things that I wanted to talk about because that's kind of always been my image, two of the pastor's wife. Is that there Vader head up the women's ministry of the children's ministry or, or part of the choir or, you know, they're always kind of in certain positions of leadership and? Now I'm coming into, you know as the church merged it's kind of late in, in your career. So I don't know what your younger years like in ministry, but I haven't seen you in that in those roles while I was really fortunate in that our first ministry was college ministry, okay. Gregg wasn't associated pastor at a Presbyterian church in Ellensburg, Washington. And although his hit term was was youth pastor, he did the, the normal things that you think youth pastors do, but we had this wonderful college right there. And so his his dream was to why am I doing all this youth work myself? When I have all these college students that would love to be in those roles right. And so he developed teams of college students which then did the direct ministry with a high. Cool junior high students. And then most of our ministry was ministering to the team. Okay. That's why it was so special when we had Greg's retirement two years ago, we had twenty five people that we had been part in our teams thirty years ago, came Ohni. Yeah. So that was a very special time. And, and because of that, while two things the pastor's wife was a very quiet introverted woman, and it turns out that was probably the best model for me. Okay. Because what it taught me was there isn't really a role. I need to be who I am in that was probably the biggest thing I could have learned in those early years was, you know, what are my gifts? How can I help? How can I support him? You know what can my ministry be? And, you know, when you're dealing with college students to, you know they were at our house constantly. Yeah. And so that was very natural for both of us. Yeah. And then, you know, as you get you, as you have kids, you know, the those roles change. And, and I remember one of the, the biggest hurts was I'd met this, this college student, and he'd been going to college group for two years. But it was after we'd had kids and he had never met me before. Oh, wow. Because I had had to pull back. Yeah. And that was really hard. I remember that. So Greg, I have always been very much of a team, but in different ways, and then we would hear that again. So it's kinda like okay now I'm the pastor's wife. What is that gonna look like? And again, I don't sing in the choir don't do those things. Although when we came here are three kids doubled the amount of kids in the church. And so I did do a lot the first two or three years in developing children's ministry and children's time and children's Sunday school. So I did do a lot just because we needed to if we were gonna grow. Yeah. And, you know, and that time I was part time teaching and so that just kinda led, you know, right in right into it. But yeah, pretty much even in this church. And a lot of it's been Greg, you know, he's given me the opportunity to do. What's comfortable for me? That's one of the things that I've really valued in. I think I'm trying to think if. Of the pastors that have been most influential in my life that I've actually had relationship with. As I look at their roles and or their, their wives roles in the ministry, alongside them. It has been a very, very much a partnership in, even though some of them have kind of done the more typical things, I think it was because that was where they're gifting. Was it wasn't necessarily because that was kind of the expectation, but, but really that was where they're they're passionate. And they're driving their skill was at in. It's always nice to see pastures and their wives working in tandem for this common purpose. And I don't know that that's entirely common. Yeah. I think it really I think it depends. I mean, I think in smaller churches I think you'll probably see that more evident in larger churches and some of the mega churches. I would think that the pastor's wife role is quite different. Yeah. I would think so. Just out of necessity. Yeah. It's funny though, because the big at one of the hardest adjustments, I had to deal with the first couple years, was, I am by nature curious and we all know that curiosity kills the cat, and I would know that Greg was meeting with someone and he would come in, and I would drill him. What you guys talk about and what did you allowed? And, and, you know, he just kept saying, no, no, no. Not gonna tie. Not gonna tell you not gonna tell you and that drove me. Oh gosh easy. And then I finally, you know, took some time, but over the first two three years, realized that, you know, confidentially confidentiality is incredibly important, and, you know, there were times that he would tell me what he needed to tell me, you know, for advice or you know, because he'd been given permission to. But it just I it just had to be that way. And that stayed all the way through. Yeah. All the way through. Did you ever feel like and I don't know maybe this is just my personality because I tend to be kind of I'm, I'm one of those weird people that's an introvert, but I like the spotlight. Did you ever feel like you were kind of in Greg's shadow? No, I really didn't. Okay. No. Because I think I always felt apart. And then I also you know, had my other roles you know, I had my role his mom, you know how my role as a teacher. And so, I think all of that together, I think helped okay so tell us your kids like boys, girls ages. Okay. We have three kids, we have a son who is also a pastor. He came to an he's thirty five. He has a church in Corvallis, Oregon. He came to Greg H thirteen and said data, what would you say? If I said, I think I wanna be a pastor. Oh, wow. And he said, son, if you can be anything else, be it. But if that's what God's calling you to do. You better do it. Wow. And so he's got a great congregation down Corvallis. And he's he's off. Them. Then we have a son who's thirty three who is a salesman in wilsonville, and he both both of our boys were very athletically, gifted. So a lot of our lives were spent watching sporting events through college and beyond. And so he's, he's like me oldest son is very much like his dad, and that one is very much like very much like me. And then we have our daughter's shell who I can say was are group's baby because she knows that and she is thirty one and is a mom, a stay at home, mom and has to a two year old four year old. Oh, yeah. And our oldest son has nine year old twins Boina girl, and then a seven year old girl, and Michelle has a lot of the same gifts. I have gifts of hospitality that gives. Those those kind of gifts. And so she's turned into an incredibly wonderful woman awesome. Yeah. So it's that's interesting that you had mentioned that, that your oldest came to Greg, it thirteen feeling like maybe he was being called to, to being a pastor because I'm thinking about the thirteen year old boys I've ever known and. That seems so completely out of character for any thirteen year old kid. Well, he is a very unique individual part of it was at thirteen. He was six foot five inches. Oh my goodness sakes and saw the joke was he was never a kit. Yeah. And in some ways he wasn't, and he always had that, that mature mentality. Okay. And so it wasn't a surprise in we, we, we knew from before that, that, that was, we could just see it. You know, we could just see it. So real kind of more of a cerebral. Yeah. Of self reflective kind of kid, very, I mean, we remember in, in sixth grade, when he would sign his name at last name Thorson, which starts with a T, right? He would always make the tea into a cross. Oh, a little things like that. I don't we would start noticing, but. Also, our kids were very much a part of our ministry. Okay. Very much part in, in having an open home and letting you know, people come into our home. And, and, you know, with their friends and, and all that they were very much a part of her ministry, the marimba -ment ministry that our church had. And, you know our kids were very involved in that. And I can remember very distinctly a time in when Mark, our second son was a senior in high school and has driving him at a buddy somewhere and Mark, and I were talking about some church thing we were having that weekend at the house, and, and the guy said, well, you know, how, how many people are coming in, and I said, I think between twenty five and thirty and he goes, oh, my goodness. And Marcus looked hit. Oh, that's nothing. Yeah. So that, that was their mentality now with been like that, anyhow, although all three of them really do. Like to open up their homes for friends and, and have those those kind of, of gifting also, but they were very much a part of our ministry, whether it's through their sports teams or through their music, or or just through. They were so, so did any of them kind of go through any sort of open rebellion and you don't need to like give details. But. Our daughter, Michelle. And I think, you know, she would not mind me saying this started in junior high school suffering from anxiety. Okay. And so while that wasn't a rebellion that was definitely, you know, something that our family have to deal with. Our oldest son was a very talented college quarterback and. You could start to see that, that swagger that they, they kinda have, you know, develop and so that that was hard at times, you know. But no, they didn't have the normal, because, you know. Yeah, you hear that about preachers and yeah. And then we were always told that our kids had double whammy, because they had preachers, kids and teachers kits. And so they said that was just, you know that's funny because I'm a teacher's kid, and I never heard that about teachers kids, so bad student. But if they all felt very much a part of the church and the church was very important to them. But again, you know. Twenty years ago. Church was more. You know, I won't say more important, but, you know, nothing. You didn't do anything else Wednesday nights. Right. You didn't have. I mean, even when our kids were in high school. They didn't have practices on Sunday, Sundays were still kept separate, you know, so things have changed that I think have kids nowadays are being pulled in so anymore directions. And so that focus and we've asked our kids before. How did you feel? Did you ever feel like you were in official? Yeah. Their answers were, yes. But it was okay. You know they they, they knew that they were being watched. And, and they knew that actions that they did could or would or could reflect upon their dad, but they also took that responsibility seriously. That's, that's so interesting. I because that that was kind of what I was wondering about is is that fish bowl lifestyle? In because that's a lot of pressure. Right. And it takes. I think it takes a strong spouse to, to live in the fish, bowl and kids living in a fish bowl. Oh, that's hard. That's real hard. But they were also all pretty good leaders, which I think helped yeah. Yeah. You know, I, I think that helped a lot too well, and it sounds like probably just the fact that. Ministry, and like ministry was intricately interwoven into your every portion of your life, definitely. It wasn't something that was separated from your family. So I, I am magin that played a huge huge role because because I do know that I've, I've heard some pastors kids that are pretty bitter resentful, because, you know, dad was always gone. Mom was always gone, whatever serving the church and all these other people, but was never at my baseball games. Yeah. And, and that wasn't the case with you guys. And I think the other thing that helped as that Greg was given the opportunity and the blessing of the church for twenty eight years to coach tennis at the high school. And so that was just a wonderful opportunity. And so people in the community felt comfortable with him. And. I think that also, I think helped the kids, too, because when they were in high school, anyone that knew, you know, Greg, as a coach knew that he wasn't this. You know, religious weirdo, they might have thought of as, as a pastor. You know when there was a pastor. Yeah. You know. And so, you know, they knew him in a different way. And I think that was helpful also. They didn't quite didn't feel quite so much in a fishbowl because there are a lot of people that knew their dad in different roles pastor. Yeah. Yeah, that's good. Sounds like a pretty healthy balance, which was, you know, they always talk about getting out of the Christian ghetto, and that was his way of being able to do that. Yeah, yeah. Exp, explain that to our listeners might not know that phrase Christian ghetto basically means if you spend all your time with, like minded, Chris. John's than you become so, almost inbred that any new ideas, any new people coming from the outside, no matter how good or how, you know, much you need that you have Tennessee to say. I'm sufficient where sufficient were good enough. We don't need anybody else. Yeah. It's a super dangerous and really easy mentality to fall into. Yeah. See it happened a lot, which is where you know, like in, in my role as a teacher. That was my of new of being, you know, having relationships outside of the church. Yeah. And, you know, the silly bunko groups and the that the girls weekends at the coast, you know, things like that, that gave me that balance. Yeah, I think that's a lot of it is. You've got to have some balance. Yeah. Yeah. So. One of the things that, that Matt and I both were curious about 'cause we're talking about, like what, what to ask you last night. And, and he was like, you know, I, I wonder because. The life of a pastor's not easy. And, you know, any given Sunday, you just don't know who's gonna come up to you after a sermon and be pretty upset by something that you've said and. You know, it just seems to me like a pastor can never please, everybody all the time. Right. Which is true for all of us. Right. But it seems a special treat for pastures and so so Manno kind of wondering in, in that. Where did that strain relationships between you and? Yeah, I guess, split their times, I wanted to deck people. There. But also, I mean Greg, Greg did a good job of guarding me. Also. Okay. He didn't tell me that was going on. And I think rightfully so. Yeah, you know, because I am powerless, you know, for the for a lot of those issues there, there really was nothing I could do about it. But overall looking back the ones that bothered us the most where the silent ones. Oh, okay. You know, if if someone came up to Greg and say, this really bothered me or what you said, really bothered me. That was wonderful. It was the ones that he knew really unhappy. And wouldn't say a word. Yeah. Yeah. That was a lot harder for him. I could see that, you know, because I mean, if they're in same way with, you know. Hike when he was taking classes in seminary, one of the things that he was taught him, one of his church, growth classes was sometimes for the health of the church people have to leave. But what they didn't tell you is that sometimes those people never tell you why they left. And so you're just you're left with all these questions. What it in those he took very personally. What an idea wrong, you know that type of thing it would be nice to have like an exit survey. Yeah. Exactly. But most people aren't going to do that. No. You know and, and often times I think it's, it's not so much that people are unhappy with. Anyone particular person or thing or whatever it's that they're unhappy with God. But that's part of it. Yeah. And, and they feel. I don't know. It seems to me a lot of times when I've seen people leave churches that it's because they have this sort of. Expectation of being served instead of actually getting in rolling up their sleeves and doing some survey. I know that Greg mentioned that in his sermon couple of weeks ago. Oh, no. I guess, just this last Sunday, and, you know, good so identified, especially now in this, this era of consumerism is, you know, I think what he said is so true. You know, it's not what can I do for the church? It's what can the church do for me? Yeah. And that is not ever. I think the. What God wants? Yeah. You know, God wants you to be part of a church and do your part in not just sit back and let things happen. And then he had to realize things like I mean, there was a family that left one time because he let their kids call him, Greg, rather than pastor Thorson. Uh-huh. You don't use little things like that, you know. And so those you just kind of roll off. But at least we knew why. But yeah, it was always the silent ones, we're the hardest. Yeah. Yeah. I said, you know, he always did a pretty good job of guarding me. But, you know, when you've been in church for thirty years, you know, we probably had three different congregations. You know, just as ebbs and flows and times and people and everything change. You know, we had our core, but overall, we probably have three different congregations. Yeah, yeah. That's interesting. I hadn't really thought about it that way because I know that there are a few that are in our church pews, you know, every Sunday that have been there for every Sunday for as long as you guys have been there or even before. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, but I hadn't really thought about that as, as far as the, the rest of the congregation being such a changing. Thing. Interesting. So one of the things that you talked about was hospitality, and that is probably. One of the things that I admire so much about you, and Greg and struggle with myself, which is weird because I, I used to consider myself a very hospitable person, like hospitals kind of my thing when we first got married, I was all about opening up our house and having people over, but Matt was very introverted and just kind of wanted to be a homebody and didn't wanna have a lot of people around. And I was like, let's bring them all. Yeah. And, and then as as time has gone on our roles have shifted, and he's much more, like, hey, let's have people over. And I'm thinking, but why would we do that? It's so much worse. But one of the things that I noticed several years ago, he, and I were on a mission trip down in Mexico, and one of the families that we were ministering with and four and two and all that they had this little tiny home and three kids, two of whom were like brand new baby twins and their dad lived with them. And they just had this small little house, and they invited the whole team to come in and have lunch during a workday. And they had made this just incredible. Feast for us, and we're just kind of sitting wherever you could find space kind of, on top of each other. But, but their home was open, and they just invited us in with the warmest. Welcome and said, our home is your home, and it was so impactful for me, too. To recognize like, I don't have to have the perfect space. I don't have to have everything perfectly cleaned. I don't have to be a great cook. Although they were great cooks. You know, I'm not, but you are so gifted at hospitality, and has that always like when you were younger was that kind of something that was modeled, fine. You know. I've, you know, I think again, I think people are gifted in hospitality by the Holy Spirit. I think everyone can learn how to be hospital. But some people just have that gift most people don't realize that, Greg is actually, an introvert who's learned to be an extrovert. But even in, in high school, I was the one that would have the, you know, the Halloween party at my house. And, and so we kind of had that that rule pretty young. And then with college students it's very I mean we could not have an open house, because we never knew when someone door right? You know, or we had a little little tiny little Honda Civic, and the big joke for them. They would come move the car down the street pick up and down the street. And so it might be two o'clock in the morning and we'd have we'd have a phone call. And then we also took in, in the course of our time. And. Owns work. We took into people whose housing situations they needed to place to live. And it was like sure, we got an extra bedroom come on over, and then I think also. In seminary in. And then in college, even we were college, we went to Whitman college, which is a small college in Walla Walla, and we were maybe one of four married students on campus. And so it was very natural for us to have our friends over. Yeah. You know, and the same in seminary, we would have, you know, all the a lot of the other students over for Easter dinner, or thanksgiving dinner, if they couldn't go home and things like that. So I think the circumstances around our life around our ministry, and I think helped that gift and, you know, some people are someone once told me or asked me, do you just not like being with your us? Is that why you always liked to have people over? It's like no, not at all. You know. And now it's just so natural for us. And we've always tried to look for those people that, that need it that just need some place to calmer someplace to be and, and open up or home to those people. And we also realize that there's a lot of people like you that love to be around people, that's not the problem. But the whole planning and figuring out things they don't wanna go there. And so it's fun sometimes to invite a group of people over stand back and just watch in a site can this is why we do it. Because these people are connecting. And if we hadn't done this, they wouldn't. Yeah. You know, so I think. That that's been an important part in are in realising. Why why we do a lot of what we do? Yeah. Well, I know, Matin, I have sure appreciated the the hospitality, and in just the friendship because even though it's really only been a few years that we've known you too. It was funny. The other night. We're at a barbecue at your house, and we'll talk about that here in just a little bit. But and I was talking to your neighbor and. Yeah, and, and she was asking how I knew you and Steph, and, and I said, you know, it's so strange, because like there was just an immediate kinship, and I feel like I've known you guys my whole life. And I just there's just immediate comfort and there's immediate. Understanding, like I feel very confident that I can open up and share everything with you, and Greg, and you're not going to run away screaming. You're not going to condemn me. You're not gonna you know whatever. And you just gonna love me where I'm at and you're good. Encourage me to draw closer to God in the process. Well, I think actually I think you and I are lot alike. Yeah. I think we down deep inside where LA like, yeah. And I think that's probably some of the attraction, and we can really kind of understand our motivations and, and what we've been through, and, you know, we've been through some real hurts in our lives, and, and loss, very important people in our lives. And, and so I think a lot of ways, I think that's that probably does help. Well, so let's talk real quick about why we were having a barbecue at your house. Is because you guys were moving guys are moving onto to new adventures. Can you share what that is? Yes, we can. We always knew that, eventually, you know, like a lot of people we're gonna get old and in. So it was like, well, okay, so which one of you kids is gonna take care. Barely. They've talked about this awhile awhile to without us knowing. And, and so right now. We have two of our, our kids live in Corvallis in the one that lives in wilsonville. And, and so. We started thinking about okay, well, what do we wanna do? You know, going, we have a big house now. I have some physical issues. I need a one eventually are gonna need a one level. So where should we move? We thought. Well, let's move halfway in between the two. And we thought that doesn't really gain us anything then yeah. Then we're only, you know, we're not really close to either one and we did side to not do that. And then we thought, well, let's just stay here. Which is fine. We absolutely love sandy, best place. We ever could have raised our kids, but I've noticed again, I think it goes back many, many years being raised in the military, we were never around her grandparents. We never had that roller knives and the last two or three years. Greg, especially has been noticing in me that really strong pull to want to be a grandma and, you know, when my daughter would call in and say, you know, I'm b. Myself because both kids are sick. And I don't know what to do and, and he could just see, I just I just wanted to go, you know, or when, you know, one of the grant the older grandkids would call and say, hey, my music, concerts tomorrow night, can you come? It's like no, I can't you know, he could see that was hard. So we started thinking about, you know what we wanted to do. And we thought if we if we waited ten years, which was kind of our plan and moved the grandkids previously out of the house. All we would have was family. And so we love college towns, because that's you know, or so much a good. Good part of ministry was for us. We love college towns. And so we just thought you know what we know that Ryan who's the pastor and his family, they may. They may leave Corvallis. Jared, our son-in-law was born and raised in Corvallis, and you will never ever get him out of that. So. So then we thought, well, let's choose there. Yeah. So then the more we got talking about it. And, you know, the, the we got talking with our daughter and son-in-law. And we came up with the idea of building a multi generational home together. And just, you know, the opportunities at that would have for us both ministry wise and, and, and moneywise I, we could both get a lot more for the, you know, if we pulled our money. And so that's what we decided to do. And, and our neighbor how we found out about the property that we bought the neighbor is the Oregon state university campus crusade director. Oh, cool. I didn't know that. He's them on the foul was talking to the owner of the property and said, you know, I think we're eighty five we're never going to build like we thought and so- Greg has inhale, too goes to our sons church. Okay. But Greg's also been in contact already been in contact with him about doing some mentoring for college students. Ashes would just thrill him to death. Yeah. And so things just kinda started opening up and, and we realize, you know, we've got, you know, two year old four year old seven-year-old in nine year old in, even if we were to wait for years, we're not gonna have that same role. Yeah. It just won't be there. Yeah. And so we just thought okay now's the time. Yeah, very scary, but very exciting, it, you know, it, it it's very sad for me because we don't wanna see you guys leave this community on the other hand, it is very exciting. Because one of the things that so like this, this episode that we just released. Our last episode is about midlife crisis, and Matt, and I both kind of feel like we're kind of going through our own individual midlife crisis. And it's not you know it's not crisis. Right. As much as we're just transitioning and were kind of having to reevaluate some things and Kitson believing the. Yeah. And our parents are starting to age. And you know, there's there's just some things that are happening that, that we're recognizing like we're in kind of entering a new season. And, and that alone is kind of scary, but one of the things that we were talking about in that is the fact that, you know, we can retire from our jobs, but we can't retire from serving God and how in, in each new season of life, you know, we need to be constantly asking that question. Okay got what do you want me to be doing right now in this season with what I have with my, whether it's physical limits. Nations or financial limitations or whatever what do you want to be doing? And I love the fact that you and Greg have so beautifully modelled, this idea of okay? You know we we've now both fully entered into retirement. That's a huge transition. And it's a it's oftentimes a time when. People kind of do one of two things. It seems they either like just completely give up life or they get really selfish with it. And you know, and I think it makes sense because, you know, you're thinking I've worked for forty years, like, I deserve to have some fun, you do deserve to have some fun. But there's certain that you can do to. And I love the fact that you and Greg, like I said, you've modeled, this beautifully where you have taken time to do some traveling in. You've taken some time to really enjoy an and savor some a couple of years of retirement together, but you've you have continued to ask that question of okay, God, how do you wanna use us now? And here's this opportunity, that's just kind of blossomed before you. And I love the fact that you're gonna continue to open your home up for people in. And in and share that ministry continue to share that ministry with your kids. That's so cool. It's going to be really cool. It's like coming full circle. It is a lot of ways. Yeah, it was interesting. Oh, maybe three or four months ago. Greg without having his quiet time outside and. He heard God, which, you know, he does occasionally and the and the and what he heard was you're a builder. And the way that he, he thought, I think this is a word from God, because he said, if I had been thinking it, I would have said, I'm a builder but the word was very strongly. You're a builder. And so then he started thinking about, you know, his his ministry, and, you know, every place at Bannon, he realized. Yeah, you know, I built a college ministry of one hundred students and in Ellensburg, and, you know, successful, you know, junior high and high school teams I built a church here. I built boys tennis program. I built a girls tennis program. You know, I built a million dollar addition onto the church, you know, and not that it was. Isn't a bragging way. Right. But it was just like yes, that's kinda my mentality is. I'm not one Justice it. And, and yes, there are lots of ministries that we could build here, still but it was just like okay so what do you want to build? You know, so we really just started thinking about about that. And he said, you know, I think I kinda almost wanna come full circle and, and go back to college again. Yeah. You know. So you can't be college towns. They're the best. They're just absolutely the best. Yeah, we Soliven Monmouth met worked at the college there and. We loved it there. We just loved it, and we had to we had to move on. And that was a sad time. And there are several times that, you know, we've thought I wonder if we should have done that, but we should have an was good. But Oliver cred kids are grads and all of our inlaws. Are we? It's such as such a great town, and it's just it's nice to have that, that youthful vigor, and that excitement for learning and in expressing new ideas, and you've got the arts and you've got the sports and you've got just the music. And yeah, there's just such an energy in a college town that you just don't find anywhere else. Definitely. That's cool. I just might move in with you guys sounds great great. While some extra rooms there you go. So real quick before we head out. I wanted to ask you, because you were just talking about Greg, having some quiet time. And this is a thing that I struggle with is, is practicing good time with God and being disciplined in that. And, and so I'm I'm working on it. And I've got an accountability to account ability partners now. And so we're working, but, but. I wanted to know like. How? As, as a pastor's wife as a mom as a teacher late. You know, you've worn a lot of hats, you've been a very busy person. How have you managed to continue to find time to, to spend in God's word, and to spend time in prayer -obably, not one of my strengths? Is it? Okay. And probably not one of my straights. Yes. I think that's why I've always enjoyed the, the bible studies, we've been in, because that's been that gives me some accountability. It's throughout my whole life. It's been very difficult to have a sustained time of daily time in in, in the word prayer. And people always seem to kind of this is one of those, I think, pastor passer wise, assumptions that, you know, Greg, I, you know, had bible studies together all the time I got down on her knees and prayed for the church every day. And. No. Not so much. Not so much. We, you know, we do a good job of praying together, but we've never over the course of our marriage really even Forty-six years really spent a lot of time in the word together. Just the two of us. I think part of it. And I think that's changed over the years. I think part of it was my lack of confidence in what I knew. Oh, okay. You know, I mean he's got a doctorate a lot. Uh-huh. What do I have to give? Yeah. And even though he never. He would never do that. I think inside me, I always felt like really. I mean if you and I are going to have a study together really what can I give to it? Right. You know. So, I think in some ways that stopped me, okay? For from pursuing that. But we have over the years gotten much better about praying together. And I think that's been really important. Yeah. Yeah. And in talking just playing just talking. Yeah. You know, there really does seem to be kind of this perception of, if you're in any kind of church leadership, or ministry, or whatever, like people just assume that you spend hours and hours in the word every day. And I'm pretty happy if I spent five minutes, reading, God's word, you know, which, I mean that's sad. And I feel like I should crave it more because there was a time during my recovery process that, oh, my goodness sakes. I was in the word for hours, you know, that was my hours at a time, but you need it. Yeah. And now it's like I'm just trying to survive. I, I do pretty good to pray a lot. Yeah, yeah. It's, it's, it's hard. Yeah. To, to have any kind. But no Greg's amazing. He's always had a very constant time everyday. Matt does to. He's really going for him. He started it. I think even became stronger, where we had kids, we did we need more. But he wanted to be that model. Yeah. He really wanted to be that model for the kids of what, you know, in his mind godly man, you know, should look like. Yeah, it was really important to him. But I know I'm just amazed when I think about. You know a sermon every week. That's like a ten page paper. Yeah. How do you do that? Yeah. You know, and I only thing I've seen over the years is you just you pray and, and you listen and you study and it all comes together. But I could never do that. Yeah. It's a hard job, I. Every time I. Kind of a have the opportunity to sort of observe, what a pastor is dealing with just little glimpses. Yeah. All I get are the glimpses. I just think, man, that's that's got to be one of the toughest jobs. Honestly. Because your, your spiritual adviser your financial advisor your. A counselor. You're a teacher. You're facilities. You're, you're you have so many roles. Right people expect you to play. I think that's that is the hardest part is because it is an all encompassing role is not a job. Yes. A role. You know it's not like you can, you know, be there at eight and clock out at five, and don't think about it again. You know you're always on the job. Yeah. And for some people that's hard. Yeah. I think that's why you see a lot of pastor burn out a lot of, you know, pastor family burnt out is just trying to, to, to deal with all that, what are, what are some ways can that we can come alongside our pastors and their families and really kind of love on and support them in and minister to them as they minister to us, you know, I think just constantly supporting them especially if. If you know that there's any any troubles going on, even if you don't know the details of it, you know, just a phone call, or, you know, attacks or Email that says just want you to know today. I am praying for you, and that's very powerful. And just, you know, getting them out and playing with them sometimes you know in, but mainly, it's just it's so important for pastor Toby able to look out over congregation and no, those people that are really there for him or her. And I think, you know, if your pastor knows that of you, it, it means a lot. And then just trying to, you know. For example, this, this program, you wanna start this fall this recovery program. You know you didn't come to, to the pastor saying, I want you to do this. You said, I want to do this for the church, and I think oftentimes people go to the pastor saying, I want you to start this and do this, this, this, and this, and they're going there's, there's no more plate that I can put latest empty. But if you come in saying, you know, God's really place this on my mind this ministry, and how, how can we do this together? Or how can you support me if I wanna go start at myself, I think those things really help. Block and supporting the family good. There's a weird noise happening. I'm not sure what it is. Is there noise happening out there? Yep. What is that? What's there, it's the wall to the outside, and we've got neighbors back there. As the weirdest. I heard it too. Yeah. I was like, what? I was like what is happening here. Yeah. So strange. Well, that's that's good to know about. About supporting our pastors in and their families because I think I think a lot of times they get neglected. And, and I think too often they also get put up on a pedestal, and I think it's time we take our pastors in their families off of the pedestal in recognize that they're just real people. It's interesting, one of the most interesting questions I get asked often, I used to play a lot of competitive softball and, and, and at my work or in so social situations outside of the church when people would say, you're a pastor's wife and I never knew how. Oh my goodness. I never would've guessed are, oh, you're a normal person. Yeah. I never knew how to take that statement from somebody. You're a pastor's wife. It's like goodly or right. You know. Well, I know that, that Karen, the wife of our current pastor has said that she always takes it as a compliment. It might not always be presented as a compliment. That's the way she always takes. I think so. I think. You know, we shouldn't we, we shouldn't blend into the world as, as Christians, or, you know, whatever your role is in the church, you know, we shouldn't blend into the world but we also shouldn't. I don't know. We shouldn't look so different that we're unappealing. Exactly. Yeah. So, yeah, I think I think there's kind of a fine line there, and I think you walk it nicely, but is interesting, but Greg, and I both like to do cruises. And you know, you're sitting at a table with eight people, you don't know. And of course, the first night, it's always, you know. Well, you know where do you live? What do you do? When I tell you, you know, when he would SAMA pastor talk about a conversations stopper. It was like, no I just no one knew what to say. Isn't that weird? I was like, oh, okay. That's nice. What do you do? They're now we can't drink, and we can't swear, and we can't talk about anything fun. We sure can't gamble. And we can't do this. We get. No. But we're just real people. That's great. Well Donnie, thank you so much for joining us is there is there anything else that you feel like you would like to say, I was I was thinking about one thing, and I think I should have probably mentioned it when you asked about, you know what you can do for your, you know, your pastor, I think the one thing, I one of the things I learned over the many years is, I don't think the majority of the congregation, some people realize how much. Can know another word but pain that passers have sometimes for their congregation. You know, I don't think they realize that aspect of it. You know, I mean these are people that they feel have been put into their flock for reason. And so when someone's hurting or when someone feels like they've been hurt or it's there's a lot of pain. Yeah. A lot of tears shed over congregations. Yeah. A lot of people know that. Yeah, that's, that's good to be mindful of I and that's what we want from our pastors. We want we want to know that they're invested in us individually and corporately. Right. But we also don't want to add to that burden needlessly. And we also wanna come alongside them and help them carry that burden. I think. So there's great. I mean it was I've, we feel very blessed. Yeah. Well, we're very blessed to have had you. Dati. Thank you so much for joining me today in the studio. Thank you. Thank you for your friendship, and for your wisdom, and for just. Being a really great role model and I'm not old enough to be a role model Yar. You can be a role model for anybody. It's not age related. You're all model for hospitality. Love your studio. It's wonderful. Well, thank you. All right. You guys. Thank you so much for joining Dottie and I today, I hope that you guys have gained some insight into the life of pastor, and their family. I hope that you guys have learned some ways that you can come alongside your own pastor, and, and care for them and help encourage and impress them toward the goal in, in good and healthy ways. And I think that's about it. I'm gonna put up some show notes and you can find those at road home to you dot com. You can find us on all of the social media's except for Twitter because I still don't understand how to use it. And you can Email us any of your questions any of your, I don't know, if you wanna tell me a story about your pastor, and how cool they are share that with us, we'd love to hear that, that's good stuff. Or if you've got some requests, or if you think you would make a good gust on our show. Please Email us at road home to you at g mail dot com. And I think that's going to do it for us. You guys. Love. God love people pray hard and we'll see next time. Bye.