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The Disappearance of Susan Powell, Part 2


There's an old nursery rhyme. About what little boys are made of? snips and snails and puppy dog tails, while girls, according to the poem are made of Sugar and spice and everything nice. I'm reminded of this simple and powerful poem about gender roles when I think about the disappearance of Susan Powell and everything that would come after. Susan Powell's journals reveal a young woman who yearned to be a wife, and mother and Susan was an amazing mother to Charlie and Brayden. Nando. She tried to be a good wife, but her husband Josh Powell didn't make that easy. Not by a long shot. To say that Joshua's twisted ideas of what he believed. His wife should be turned Susan's dream of a family. The sugar and spice and everything nice into a living nightmare trapped. In emotionally abusive marriage, she leaned into her religion for guidance and support, but who could have foreseen the lengths of depravity. Josh would delve into to get what he wanted. Last week in episode one of our two part series we reveal that Susan Powell disappeared, but she left behind a haunting trail of breadcrumbs. A videotape and secret will that warned of the extreme turmoil in her marriage, and that is something happened to her well. It might not be an accident even if it looked like one. Susan was afraid of her husband Josh. An episode to will continue to unpack Susan's disappearance and is behavior after would set in motion. What would become a runaway freight train of events hurtling toward the unthinkable? The murders of Charlie and Brayden by their own father, and could this case change history for the many vulnerable children in the foster care system of Washington state. I'm Caroline Massaro with Kim Shepard and this is the scene of the crime. Oh, Caroline! I'm so glad you gave us just a little bit of hope their this whole story. Especially, obviously, the deaths of Charlie Brayden is so tragic. I hope there's some kind of you know bit of silver lining at the end of all this, but let's get back to the story at this point is wintertime in Utah snows on the ground. Josh Powell claims that he had just taken his two little boys for a camping trip. They came home and his wife was missing. But, then, of course, one of those little boys says well. Mom came camping with us. She just didn't come home. Police say by December twenty fourth. Josh was considered a person of interest. But! He was never arrested for his wife's disappearance. Less than two weeks after his wife went missing, he took his boys to his Dad HAP- dad's house in puyallup Washington quote unquote for the holidays and on January Sixth Josh then returned with his brother Michael now remember his brother Michael because we're going to get back to him. There's a lot to unpack with this brother. Anyway Josh and Michael They drove to Utah and in a whirlwind path. The family's belongings Ghana Storage Unit and moved to Puyallup for good or Josh brought his boys to live with his Dad Steve, and that house in that house of horrors. Yeah, exactly it was during that time that allegedly Josh, Steve started the Susan Powell dot org website where anonymous entries claim that Joshua's reputation was being smeared by his estranged sister Jennifer, the LDS Church and Family. More posts proffered an alternative theory that Susan had run off with. This guy named Steven Coker who happened to vanish the same week Susan, and that the chew had run off to Brazil together. Now Susan's family vehemently rejected these claims as being unsupported by any evidence and that Susan would never leave her children. West Valley city police say they never had enough evidence to bring charges against Josh, because didn't have a body or crime scene now. Obviously many disagree with this including legal experts and law enforcement in Washington state. Where do you stand on this because there's a lot of it? That's hard. You know it's so hard to Monday morning. quarterback, this kind of thing but. Gosh? I do feel like they should have at least arrested him and tried to put together a case out of know how far they actually went with that i. know the investigated him, but did they actually. Put together what evidence they had, give it to the district attorney and say. Can we prosecute like? Did they actually take that step because I? Feel like that's an important. Thing you know. One thing for the police officers to say, we don't know if we have enough evidence, but it's another for the prosecutor to say that I think there was definitely that push pull between the prosecutors. We don't have enough. We don't have enough because remember. As they were looking at all these possibilities you know Steve could have had just as much as a motive as Josh to want to get rid of Susan because he couldn't have her. Who knows I mean? They already are getting information on him that he's kind of a Weirdo. Kind of like definitely has issues. And once I could see where she already said she wanted to leave him and wanted a divorce that you know they might believe that. She had tried to leave on her own, but at the same time it's like yes. She left her boys. She would never do that clearly, and then this other dude coker. Did he ever surface anywhere like what happened with him? You know what to my knowledge. He's never surface. It just so happens that he disappeared at around the same time I. Guess It's a possibility. Did she know him? Did? They have evidence that they were friends or anything? I don't think she knew him, but there were ties, just weird random ties, but not anything specific, but it would be enough. For you know for a really good defense attorney to have some doubt. I think they should have arrested him and I think they should have went to trial, but I could see why they could see the reasons of why. They wanted to continue building this case. But I mean I have seen. I've been my true crime. Forays and different podcasts and stuff like. People have been convicted on much less evidence and evidence that she had against him was so circumstantial. Evidence was so powerful and remember police kept looking for Susan's body in abandoned mines in the Utah Desert. And the relationship between the Powell and Cox families became even more toxic. There were many points of contention custody of the boys. The Powell family wouldn't even let the Cox's spend time with their grandchildren. And then there was also Susan's journals that the Cox family felt the POWs were exploiting interviews given to the media by Steve gave police probable cause for a search warrant of Steve's house in two thousand eleven to find Susan's journals when they executed that search warrant investigators were hoping to at last. Get enough dirt on Josh to arrest him for Susan's disappearance. But investigators said you mentioned the House of Horrors Cam in you were not off the mark there in Stevens Room. They found child pornography and evidence that Steve had secretly videotaped numerous women and young girls, including Susan more than forty five hundred photos of Susan. Many included close ups of specific body parts, and it was clear by the photos that Susan had no idea that she was being photographed, so steve was arrested on charges of voyeurism and child, pornography and police told. Ese Chess, the boys were in danger, and so they became wards of the state wants Steve had been arrested. Chuck Cops Susan's Dad filed for custody, of Charlie and Brayden and the Cox's were granted temporary custody of the boys. The, court told Josh that if he was to re regain custody of Charlie and Braden, he would have to move out of Steve's home and undergo a court ordered psych evaluation now. All of this is an interesting point to talk about like there's a lot. There's a lot of guys who potentially could have murdered their wives, and so this is a big deal like they get custody of the children when they might have possibly murdered the mother. You know the the boys weren't. Weren't taken from Josh because he might have potentially have murdered his wife, or at least it had something to do with her disappearance, they were they were custody was given to the grandparents finally because of that I'm search warrant, and because Steve was arrested, and so anyway I thought that that was an interesting point to talk about like how awful that must have been for the Cox family that their grandchildren are with the father who could possibly have murdered their mother, you know. I wonder also about the difference between just the. Way Things Work and Utah versus the way they work in Washington whether it's law enforcement whether it's just the community in general like the. The vibe of the community because of the heavy LDS presence and the heavy focus on family, super, Super Conservative, and then you go to Washington where it's sort of the opposite. and I wonder if that played a role in the fact that we're willing to go out on a limb and take these kids away from their dad. WHEREAS UTAH NOT WELL IN FAIRNESS TO UTAH. He bolted so fast. They didn't have jurisdiction in Washington like they Utah is actually still trying to work, and this is a really great point that you brought up because. Let me give a little bit more detail. Explain why. So Josh rented a house. You know because the court said Hey, you can't live at Steve's home. But authorities allege it was all for show that he never actually moved into this house, and which is using the rental to satisfy the court to get Charlie and brain back while he continued to live at his dad's home now, according to a two thousand twelve interview in the psychology and Seattle, podcast the forensic psychologist who was hired by the state of Washington to evaluate Josh Powell said that he interviewed Josh for a total of eight hours now. The state's evaluator found that Josh had adequate parenting skills a steady employment history. History and no criminal record or history of domestic violence, and here's that part where we were talking about where he was emotionally abusive, but there was no at least on record physical abuse right, so the evaluator said that he still had some concerns, and so the initial recommendation was for Josh to have visitations with his sons several times a week, and that they should be supervised for social worker now. Here's the part that I was talking about where the Utah Police were worried about these kids and so what they did was. The West Valley city police had seized a bunch of computers from Joshua's after Susan disappeared in two thousand nine, but Josh was so computer savvy, and he put these sophisticated computer. Encryption on all of these computers I mean crazy. I think the FBI even tried to track. They're still trying to crack some of the codes on his. Computer encryption, but anyway before the judge ruled to give him back temporary custody or to get him in that process. They were able to find on one of his computers. They were able to get into it and they found cartoon incest pornography. The images while not illegal, due to there, being in a hand-drawn or cartoonish, three D format were caused great concern. And so to the person who conducted that court order evaluation particularly, because Josh had denied having such material to this court evaluator, and so the pictures were i. mean it's just I. Mean just to give you an idea. The pictures some of the pictures were depictions of cartoon characters involved in incest, but WHO's GonNa? Admit that yes I have those in my home. I mean that's not something anybody is to want to admit to. This is true, but given his history given the family history. You think it's interesting that the psychiatrist or psychologist said he was concerned because Josh had claimed he didn't have any of that, but he did. The Lai is not what concerns me. Like confused I. think that when you look at the C. Finally, they're. They're at least putting that. They're putting together the dad has this crazy. Like is going to prison because of his voyeurism and his child pornography, and all that rights and the apple obviously does not fall too far from the tree in the whole time. Josh was acting like I don't have any porn I don't have anything and clearly. He's got a lot of stuff going on his computer, so what what the evaluator did. Was Josh was mandated by the court. To undergo a psycho sexual evaluation. And polygraph test. If you wanted the kids back so to him, you know we know that people can can lie on polygraph tests I mean. We know that the Green River killer totally dead and passed with flying colors, but that psycho sexual evaluation. That's pretty crazy like it's. There's a lot more to there and shared what is that? What do you do in one of those it'd be. Do you have any idea? You know I don't know I mean maybe. I mean what I I think of. Smiling. Thinking the same thing like they do you show? Images and see if they get a aroused diabetes. That's so gross I. There has to be another way. I can't believe that that's how they do it. Because that's just so wrong well, here's the thing to. The grandparents recognized like this is another trigger for Josh just like they recognize after they had all the information about Susan and her secret will in her the video like in her wanting to push for getting a divorce. If you didn't change his ways like he's up against the wall like he's already cracked in, know he cracked when allegedly you know he. Had something to do with her disappearance. It was because she was like threatening a divorce, and he felt like he was like in the crosshairs and here it was again because he went to court thinking. Oh, I'm getting my kids back now all of a sudden. It's like oh no. You're not, and we're going to give you a serious psycho, sexual evaluation and a polygraph test and so. He was under the gun and Chuck Cox was like Hey. This is when he he's capable of doing anything. The problem is it transitions from being about Susan, although obviously, it's hugely about Susan. To the safety of the children they are so. Vulnerable and unfortunately the evaluator didn't impose any change in the visitation schedule with Charlie and braid, and even though the Cox family begged, and that the kids were in imminent danger, and so on February fifth two, thousand, twelve a few days after that requirement to the polygraph and the psycho sexual evaluation, a social worker took Charlie in Brayden from their grandparents home to Josh's rental home for a supervised visit. Now this visit should have taken place in a secure ds HFS facility, but somewhere along the line. A social worker had changed visit to be allowed to take place in Josh's rental home. So the social worker. Who Brought Charlie brain to Joshua's house had been there before four supervised visit, but this time cam this time it was different. The boys got out of the car were step ahead of her when Josh Open the door long enough for the voice to run inside, and then he slammed the door in her face, and proceeded to lock the door, and the social worker was pounding on the door, calling to be let in which he started smelling gasoline, she ran to the sidewalk and called nine one. Onto emergency life threatening situations, Earth Earth Bill Deputy. Court on Wednesday. and. This is really McConnell Kobe live. The children previously. I HAVE NO IDEA The PRISCILA contract you. Take your. Cam. It's so sad. She was like begging them to come and the nine one one operator was like total bureaucrat. Like what's your name? WHO's Josh Powell? What color is your car and she's like? What do you think it's like what we talked about before where they're just trying to keep them on the line? They're just trying to get as much information as possible or do you think it was something else? No, it's just like. He was rude to her. He was really condescending. You know and she I mean I can't believe that she wasn't screaming like help. Help like I mean maybe share training. Like would teach her to be more. Even Keel because I would have just been like. To get I mean I can't even. I can't even imagine because she was maybe because she was so even Keel. He wasn't taking it seriously. You know what I'm sure and I remember this that they were embarrassed by that. I mean more than embarrassed mortified, and like that's not a nine one one call. Yes, and two and you say good job, buddy. That was a nine one one call where you're like. I mean I don't think that they could have gotten there fast enough, but you know who knows maybe they could have like. There's no point in going there, but you know how sometimes like the law enforcement can get there within like a minute ray. Like so often though that's based on where they're coming from like. If there happens to be somebody in the area, they can get there in a minute, but if they don't happen to be in the area s going to take longer while so after ten minutes, the house just exploded. With Charlie and Brayden inside. Where you calling. From. Ask. One nine one eight night. Court! A man. He wouldn't let. Him. On the line. The blast killed both boys and Josh, which was his diabolical plan to begin with. The authorities say that minutes before the Inferno Powell had sent emails to several people saying quote I'm sorry goodbye. And emails to his pastor and cousins with instructions on where to find his money. And how to shut off his utilities records also show that Josh had withdrawn seven thousand dollars from his bank account and had donated his children's toys and books to local charities the day before the incident. So I, spoke to Seattle, attorney, and Bremner who's been helping the Cox family since the year after Susan's disappearance in two thousand nine, and she gives us some insight into this case from her perspective. into data, the kids were murdered. I was scheduled at dinner with an rules time writer. And and she's been helping the family she was. She's passed away, but she's a wonderful person. And I just remember obvious Oh devastated, and all of the were that the only person I can think of other than the confidence that want to spend time with an. We just sat dinners. Our phone sublime. And Talk I. Just never had yesterday. They had never talked to my stomach can. Just. Like, like the whole world you know just. Don Off Axel. On and so I was involved. For the family. And a number of ways once the kids for murder. Of course, I wouldn't Vince. You know we're involved in the. Various arrangements with legal matters about Susan's Day. with respect to the kids don't forget the know. There's so many system terms case, but judges family wanted to. The voice. And, so we had to go through that whole. Toss US I was in the process of getting on a restraining order when running on actually out, and would enjoyer accommodate. Share. With an signs on the public. To Stop By. The. The. US to very josh by the kids sitting murder, so I love that and brought up. And Dawn and their work with the Cox family because I was actually working with them as their news anchor when all this happened, and they spent several days. Focusing their radio show on helping the Cox family, making sure that Charleen Brayden, their own space away from the Powell family, raising money for those sites that were around Charlie and Brayden. And their dedication made such a huge difference in so many lives. So. Even though Charlie and Breitner gone even though Susan is gone. Is such a touching statement that the community came together donated money. To. At least give these boys a little bit of peace in the end well and. she also mentions Ed Troyer. Who's the Publican as you know the public information officer and he has done so much. In this case, and was right there with Ron and don and I can just hear Ron and don like this is what they do best right like and and I've heard like answered. Those plots were really expensive. I don't know how expensive they were but I mean it's not like it was five dollars. I mean it was. It was like tens of thousands of dollars. How I don't understand I'd ask an. Talk about this family. Why would they try to get? Josh buried next to the boys that he had murdered. And this is what she had to say that there was some information that we had a certain family members who tried to get the life. Insurance proceeds to pay for the. Expenses, so there was like a run on insurance. Funny a Gecko. On I couldn't believe it when I heard it I. When I got the call. The person, said anything down. And it's just I can't even any motive maybe sell. I know a lot of the things I've written over the years and put out in the Internet. On Saturday I think that there was an Michael positions full day before until themselves. They enacted Lena's and chair cut another and spend time students so given what I know about. The family and wreckage said publicly about Josh about the case. They really is victim. On that they felt as of the press. And they felt that he was injured force of the dependency. Basically, there was a battle between the families over. These huge insurance policies basically three point, five, million or something crazy between the two of them right and that. John. Cut Out Susan and her family from these insurance, and then put all of it Michael's name, and then like a couple of trinkets, percentage wise for. A couple of his other siblings right. And so. They felt like he was a victim of the press and media. And that he was the victim, Josh was that Josh was that they hounded him that he. was forced into this into a corner, and that he was a victim of this. I don't see how anybody could make that argument because with all of the material, the evidence of pornographic material and other things from Joshua's house from Stevens House. Even if he wasn't physically abusive to his wife for kids. Clearly, there was some depravity happening. He wasn't just being made a scapegoat for no reason. Yeah I mean you could see like when you look at the videos you can. Can just see like his the weariness I mean good. Good I'm glad you know because what he did. Exactly you know. I mean I. Don't get how the family could do that. I really don't I. Just that doesn't no matter. If the media hounds you or whatever that doesn't give you justification for killing your own sons, and abducting and killing their mother, so so yeah I mean it's it's it it? It was a question I had to ask because I just like. Who are these people right? So earlier I said to remember Josh's brother Michael the same brother who helped Josh pack up his Utah House and moved to Puyallup. And two thousand thirteen, approximately one year, after Josh had ordered his sons and committed suicide. Michael jumped from the roof. Oh, parking garage and killed himself. Now police say. There is strong circumstantial evidence that Michael Powell new Josh had allegedly done to Susan and help Tim Dispose of the body detective say that Michael took his Ford Taurus to a place called Lindell's auto salvage specifically because they specialized in crushing cars and that he did this back in December. Of Two thousand nine, which is not long at all after Susan vanished, and later when police asked him about it, Michael Actually ordered satellite images from that lot because he was looking for that car. Because police got lucky and found that Ford Taurus a cadaver dog indicated that a decomposing human body had been in the trunk. Unfortunately DNA tests were inconclusive now police have questioned Michael. Several Times in two thousand twelve, and said he was very evasive about why he left the car at that location police that Michael's car was towed to Pendleton from Baker Oregon, which is roughly four hundred miles from West Valley city ironically, that's about half the distance. Remember the eight hundred miles at. He made on that rental car. The day after that Josh drove day after his wife went missing now. Utah authorities have since said as I said that they believe Josh and Michael were accomplices in the murder of Susan. And an actually interviewed him and I asked her like what was that like? I thought. With me. for security. I was worried at. That has a nation that gave me concern for the tape system. So I've got to police officers with the I asked him to be searched. He innocence on record on refused. He refused to say whether he was armed and employer didn't want the police officers their his lawyers opposition in an old house. So I had the opposite stand just outside the Lindo for the day and are no shrinking. Shrinking. Fire! I am not and so now and is representing the caucuses in a case against the state of Washington for not protecting Charlie and Braden from their father. No, she gives us a breakdown of where the cases. For Rose because when we first founded, you had it in federal court was removed to Federal Court apartment Attorney General's office. Of Court? Some judgements that he had to go to report appeals now for a long time, we one. Of his heels, and of course now back in State, court on trial, start on hand. And, what does he usually about is these two boys? Drilling braiding were in the care custody control. He has when they were murdered by Van. And the CPS now that he was a second killing his own life. And they also knew that these kids were potentially because they were saying. Like I pictures of the. Car came on mine and saints. Change things. You can't resist. At midnight in the snow in Utah Allergy disappeared and also saying things that they found money's by, and he would be. Seventy said things like that and my Mommy's Dad. You know all these scientists and of course Houston with him during that ill say trip. And she never came back his nursing, so international cases basically that they knew the suspect in the murder of her, and that these kids potential witnesses their addition edition about fifty read signs that were more are intentionally disregarded by CPS that led to the Japanese kids in. I think striking the most. Casual observer of the trial is. He was visiting kids in UCSF. Agility Nelken ever get one of those. Anywhere in the United States? And if There was a decision by one K for Communication Josh House. That's where he got after to them. Ask. Prior to the official causes of death of seven year old, Charlie and five-year-old was carbon monoxide poisoning, but the coroner noted that both children suffered significant shopping injuries on their head and neck. Now a hatchet was found by Josh's body and investigators believe that Josh attacked Charlie in Brayden with the hatchet repeatedly on the neck and shoulder subduing them, though they were still alive then. Literally doused their bodies with clean and spread gas throughout the House and set it on fire. So! If there was ever any any any doubt that he murdered his wife, he just blew it out of the water. Oh, yeah, Eddie, who can do that to their two little boys could do anything to a grown woman. Yeah I mean. We still have to say allegedly, but in my mind. Of course, he did it if you could do that I your children. If. You could do that to them if you could do that to anybody, but especially like these boys. had. Suffered so much. And I get it that sometimes people are like well. They've suffered so much. I want to end their misery. I don't want them to suffer any longer, but there are ways to do that with compassion. I was no level of compassion in this. He didn't care about them. He didn't WanNa live without them. He knew it was over for him because not only. Not only were. They are going to be taken away because you know my money's on the fact that he wouldn't be able to pass that psycho sexual evaluation based on found on his computer, and then he wouldn't be able to pass a polygraph on top of that. The boys were starting to talk. The boys were starting to talk about what had happened from their perspectives, but now the most important thing that the Cox's want from the lawsuit is change in the actions of policy of say chess because there were so many red flags, I mean the Cox is begged them. Beg then not to let Josh have them. We wanted to never happen again. Ever But we want this to D-, verdicts Missouri that speaks. To how wrong these wrongs were! And then you can have an agency that they follow their own policies. They don't chain during the digitals. It's almost like there's kind of a replica independence that permeates the whole agency. It's like a Just kind of putting one. Wouldn't the otherwise now putting side at least in our Hayes to the consequences of the decision. And in this case we had A. Red Flags jury of fifty different sides. That were ours. Any one of which had. Any one of these gated the kitchen Sylvia live. So lanes is violence seven? Passionate. Descend on fire. The something good I'm Lazy Fun Shelling Breaking. down. All that. Doctor that said they. They knew they were alive. Until until they become aspect blazing liberalized. Its worst of the worst. The interesting thing about the law in Washington State and I'm not sure if it's exactly the same elsewhere, but something that I know is something I. Know is true in here. Washington state is that the state imperative is to reunite families. So when you talk to a social worker about handling child abuse cases, the first thing that they try to do is not necessarily to protect the child. It's to reunite the families. And so I think that's where you get into this will. Why was Josh still allowed to see his kids? When we knew there was some kind of criminal behavior happening? You know we didn't possibly know the depth of it, but we knew something was wrong with that whole situation. Obviously, why is he still allowed to see those kids? Well, because in the state of Washington the number, one imperative of social workers is to reunite families or to keep them unified. And, so even if you have severe abuse situations, it's very likely the parents can still get some kind of visitation. And you're spot on. You are absolutely spot on Kim and says that the Cox family suit you know basically. They don't want Diaz Hsa to just. Parental rights are the number one priority. The children. What's in the best interest of the children should be the number one priority. Another interesting thing I talked to Ann, about was her thoughts about how Joshua's manipulation played a part in this horrific tragedy I mean when he was evaluated, and this is not to give props to Josh, but just to give you a picture of this a fuller picture of this guy, he he is I q tested at one twenty eight, which is higher than about ninety seven percent of the population. And, what if anything of Josh Intelligence had to do with him? Never being charged in this and he. Basically said that he was such. A huge squeaky wheel got away with a lot of stuff. Not murder per se, but just in life in their relationship together. His manipulation Susan I I also think that when you start getting away with those little things. The things that you find yourself wanting to get away with? Get bigger and bigger and bigger. So you think you're invincible, and you could do whatever you want well, and that gets back to your original thing that you were talking about history like his dad wrote the book on that his dad was against authority against you know was was angry about politics. You know angry at religion. Angry at boundaries didn't WANNA. have any boundaries didn't WANNA do any thought. People were idiots, and that's basically was Joshua's whole roll. Like how Susan Live with that? For as long as she did I mean clearly, it just wore her down. And I think that it's important to talk about the good works at the Cox, family is doing now to support families that are experiencing domestic violence. You know they've made it their mission to help. Primarily I mean men can be victims of of domestic or survivors of domestic violence, but it's mostly women. Let's let's just call it like that. And they're just turning this horrible tragedy into. Helping. Other. Women see that it's not just. You know this is an emotionally abusive story. It's not necessarily the physical abuse that so often you you feel goes hand in hand with domestic violence right well, and the other thing is that that emotional abuse can escalate to physical violence and I think that if there are efforts made to deal with that emotional abuse early on before it gets to that point. That's that's. That's great. Yeah, no, the signs like you said like you can't imagine someone taking your car away either but I think that it's like it's a slow kind of thing. Where suddenly like all of your rights being stripped, and you have someone like manipulating you and changing the way that you think about yourself and your perceptions and and her family remember was all in Washington. Yeah, but you know what's crazy. Though is usually happens when there's not a supportive family there to give you advice to help you see things in a different way to to be a a soft place to fall if you need to leave, she had all that she had that. Support a family and parents who really cared and wanted to be part of her life and I'm just amazed that. In that situation, even with all that support, she wasn't able to get out. Yeah, Yeah I mean it's something to right now during the pandemic in Washington I'm kind of flipping for a second. You know police say that. Overall crime. Is Down in Washington state but. Domestic calls are up. And it just it just warrants like we're GONNA put some blinks up on our website. If you. Need support need help you know. There are resources out. Imagine I think we should put stuff up on our website to website the. We think that we're suffering because we're stuck at home, but like. When you're in a supportive family, and you're stuck at home is a lot different than when you're in a toxic relationship where there's a either physical or emotional or both abuse and you're trapped with your abuser, you know. And really wanted me to. Let everyone know that the Cox's are so appreciative for all of the support. They received after all of these years. Cages in a long time and I just WanNa to say that my check and duty costs costs. So appreciate everybody's support and empathy. You know through all these years. They can't say enough how important to them, and how many spended them? I mean they've been through the worst tragedy any of us and think. Daughter and her grandchildren, and they tried to keep the kids from Josh when they first tried everything. Instill this happened, so I'm just want to say that. They're very very grateful for the support. From the community instead pass the court for about attacking, which is wonderful. So Kim. What do you have on the agenda for next week? We'll caroline. A lot of comparisons have been made between what we're dealing with right now with this corona virus, pandemic and the Spanish flu of nineteen eighteen. So for fun if you can call it that I thought it would be nice to go back in time, and about a murder mystery from that era, it happened in spokane at what is now known as one of the most haunted mansions in the city of Spokane. At at the time, it was bought by a doctor Rudolph on someone that people would dub the mad doctor of South Hill. Bothering you that story next week? I'm Carol Massaro with Kim. Shepard, and this is the scene of the crime.

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