NBA Summer Mailbag Plus Kevin Costner on His Best Baseball Movies, Acting Lessons, and Navigating True Superstardom | The Bill Simmons Podcast
Today's episode the Bill Simmons podcast on the Ringer podcast network brought to you by Ziprecruiter the best team start with great talent. You know who didn't have great talent Kevin Costner's Tigers team in for love of the game it didn't matter he was able to overcome it with his his great talent pitched a perfect game. It might have been scripted but who cares sometimes the current teams end great talent while nobody knows imports town more than ziprecruiter they deliver qualified candidates fast so effective eighty percent of employers who post on Ziprecruiter get a quality candidate through the site in just one day. My listeners can try it for free. GO TO ZIPRECRUITER DOT COM slash B.. S. Ziprecruiter is the smartest way to hire meanwhile they'll seek the best APP for buying and selling tickets to sporting events concerts and more for ten dollars off your first seeking purchase on any game or sporting event use Promo Code B e._S. that includes M._l._s. m._l._b.. Football's coming up college football yeah everything download the seekie gap or go right to seek dot com were also brought to you by the ringer dot com the world's greatest website where we are all in on Quentin Win Tarantino this week for variety reasons. We love his movies more. Apparently there's nothing going on this week so why not owned Tarantino. He's got a huge movie coming out on Friday. We have a rewatch ables podcast also coming out on Friday reservoir dogs Sean fantasies big picture podcast cast is doing a whole bunch of Tarantino stuff and our old Halloween unmasks feed we have refashioned that and what is it called Craig Quentin Tarantino's feature presentation yeah a special three episode podcast Cast Tarantino. We interviewed him in his own words about some movies that he cares about go to <hes> go to the ringer dot com you'll be able to find it and check out all the great stuff. We wrote about Tarantino this week. A lot of staffers big Tarantino fancier Terr- unbelievable his careers were finishing a decade number three. I was really fun to talk about reservoir dogs too which is a movie that came out in Nineteen ninety-two and seems both dated and not dated at the same time but we really dove into that me Sean Advanced Chris Ryan so you get that Friday coming up. We're do little N._B._A.. mailbag stuff at the top and then an interview. I've been holding for weeks and weeks. It's awesome Kevin Costner finally come on. He came on after after God. I don't know how many years asking him but he's here and it's better than I thought it'd be. I'll leave you with that but I broke up all right. I'm GonNa hit some M._B._A.. mailbag stuff just so you know I'm taping this on Monday. I think all of this stuff is relatively evergreen. If anything crazy happens don't hold it against me you figure like the N._B._A.. It's gotTa get quiet one of these weeks. I figured it'd be right now. We'll get the Costner's second. You sent some emails. It's it's the mailbag at the ring dot com issued ruining email me but it let's go through a couple of them here. This one is from Owen Larchmont New York. He was wondering who I thought would be the past cow CEAC him of the two thousand twenty season that necessarily an impact finals player but someone making a leap someone coming out of relative nowhere that we knew it was pretty good but then all of a sudden by the end of the year we're asking that an M._B._A.. I could that guy be the second best guy in a final steam all right so I thought about at this question my answer is this here the nominees it has to be somebody that's going to be on a playoff team. <hes> either a contender or somebody who's one move away from being a contender or the a team. That's just relevant. Those will be my three categories for that so we'll go through all these Brandon Ingram. I think he has the talent he's young. The Blood Klatt thinks set him back but supposedly he has a chance to be healthy healthy. That team needs a score. Kinda liked the team. I like the Lonzo Drew Holiday Combo the Zion thing it'll be fun but they need a score. They need somebody to give the ball to in the last four minutes a game. I could see him making a leap. I don't think that's a contender anything but that they might be a stealth forty three playoff team who knows but it will if that happens it'll happen because him next one pick is Jalen Brown and before you say that I'm a homer I should mention you know one of the best guys on a team that almost made the finals in a year plus ago. I thought he was really good from January on last year. He had just an awful I two months and then rally then became a reliable semi elite to a guy and I'm interested to see what he does with more shots on a team. That doesn't WANNA kill each other every week. He's young too and there is I've talked about this before but there's a statistical trajectory with him where Paul George is an unrealistic him having him being able to blossom awesome like that <hes> every time I say that people get mad at me but just go look Paul. George stats the first couple of years to get back to me. I'm really interested to see what happens with him and tatum now that they know this team Marquette Down Cares Verda Brooklyn. I guess the recipe would see if Kyrie was just awesome this share which is very possible. He was awesome in year. One and Boston and Brooklyn ends up being a little better than we thought they'd be in a week conference and they're stringing along until K.. D. Can potentially come back in the spring next spring who knows but Liberte somebody that was looking like a twenty point a game guy and is still relatively young and the big question with him is whether he can just stand the court but I think he has the town to the next one. I don't believe in but I'm just going to mention them Kacoos MMA just because he's going to be a really nice situation with the Lakers where he's going to have a lot of open shots. He's going to have a lot of support and they actually probably need him a little bit. I'm just not convinced he's anything more than like a seventeen and seven. I don't think it's very good defensive player there so but had to mentioned anywhere else the leg bear media Mitch Kakuta well. I mentioned him. The next one is my darkhorse. Jeremy Grant really liked him on okay see. I think it's very strange to be on okay. Say It's a weird team. The last few years of Westbrook and then Paul George comes in and you're basically just an ornament offensively and defensively to try your ass off and all that stuff but I really wanNA see him on this Denver team that ball movement offensive sophistication being at a whole other level and then okay see. I think he's a really good athlete. I just have always liked his game and in. They've needed like an elite wing and team. I don't know if he has the talent but I have mine him. Zach Collins Portland you know is going to play because of New York is out until at least the all star break. I don't believe in Hassan whiteside at all I I liked the flashes of Zach Collins and the playoffs and his young. I'd I think he turns twenty. Two during the season <hes> and looks a little like producer Craig looks a little bit like you okay yeah. We'll taller. Josh Richardson. I think is is the favourite. You're the guy that <hes> I left for last year. We know Philly's going to be good. We know they are going to be one of the two or three best teams. In the east. We know they need him desperately to help defend basically the best parameter guy in the other team and then on top of that make wide open threes and I think he's good and I think he's somebody that you know the average M._B._A.. Fan just hasn't watched a lot of the last couple of years than anything was in a situation maybe you were. There are asking a little too much for him. I think if he's like your fourth banana fifth banana he could really thrive and I'm interested to see what happens with him. I thought he had some good moments last year so those would be by nominees if you if if there's anybody out there that I missed told me next question from Andrew in California. This is a good one. The Knicks are one of the few publicly traded sports teams as part of the M._S._G.. Stock in the New York Stock Exchange. Can you imagine a ringer lead crowd funded effort to purchase a controlling share M._S._G.. Then Fire James Duh own and take control of the Knicks. The current value of M._S._G.. is six point eight billion three point four five billion. Give you a fifty percent stake in the ability of Name Yourself C._E._o.. Let's make this happen Oh. I didn't realize I got to be the C._E._O.. And this whole thing this is magnificent all right so I thought this was obviously ludicrous. How are you going to raise four billion dollars? <hes> an crowdfunding effort well last year a blockchain unchain startup. I think I know what blockchain is. You know. Blockchain is great a little bit. A blockchain startup raised four billion dollars without alive product. It was a Cayman Island startup. It equips the world's biggest initial a public offerings that stock exchanges that year <hes> it was blocked at one it was funding. A blockchain platform called E._O._S. that I._O._S.. Through a process known as an initial coin offering or I._C._O.. I'm just reading this from a copy pasted it a multibillion dollar fundraising for more than doubling the next biggest offering in that type well. I mean that's pretty sketchy. We create ringer coin ringer crave. Maybe could we pay for the Nixon blockchain or ringer coin or whatever all right. I'M GONNA look into this but all I know is if a Cayman Islands startup can raise four billion dollars we could raise three point four five billion and take the knicks away from James Dolan. You do think though there's probably like conservative estimate twelve million next fans get one one million of those twelve million to contribute hundred dollars. I can't add I used to be able to add a six nine A._M.. I'm F- S._A._T.'s which which is really high back then now. I can't add three four but <hes> yeah. I'm not going to rule out this <hes> this next thing ringer lead crowd funded effort yeah. Let's do it all right next question. Mike in Philadelphia Wonders unders. Adam silver doesn't catch nearly enough crap for forcing Jerry Colangelo down the sixers throat who in turn hired as idiot son in his huge collars to immediately knocked the six off their rebuilding course but then Lakers next can and somehow continued to be run by Lake by Nieces Easy Bake Sale what the hell is going on here. It's for making Philadelphia. My answer is you're right. It is a little weird that they intervene with the next. I guess the difference is they intervened with the front office and not the actual ownership with the problem with the N._B._A.. The N._B._A.'s like a neighborhood where some asshole buys the house next to you and at that point it's his house unless he's selling heroin out of there or you know doing something illegal or it's Jeffrey Epstein the the the N._B._A.. Really has no power at all to get somebody to sell with one exception we saw with Donald Sterling this decade and we kinda thought with George Shen way back when when he was involved he would own the Charlotte team before <hes> Bob Johnson and Michael Jordan and even then they they made him move out of Charlotte or maybe he wanted to move or both and he moved to New Orleans and <hes> <hes> even that they can get to that guy. It's really hard you have to it has to be like a Jerry Richardson Donald Sterling type of situation and even then the guy doesn't really necessarily have to sell it could drag it on in court for twenty years so mike from Philadelphia. I don't really have an answer for you except for you're right. Why did Jerry Colangelo? Why was that the one who got forced down the sixers start? I will say there has been some revisionist history with the Sam Hanky era in Philly where his idea was great but then use some of the execution of it was pretty I mean he did take Jalil okafor in the top five and he did take neural stowell six and he did he. What was the other one? Oh Michael Carter Williams like his drafting was pretty iffy. His trades were good and really what he did that that was probably the most defensible was he enraged the other teams they just didn't like dealing with them and they thought he was arrogant and <hes> wouldn't call back and all kinds of stuff. There's a there's a way to deal with fans and other teams that we could have a modicum of you know civility and interplay and he just didn't care so I think from that standpoint <hes> the league probably needed intervene but the stuff about them just throwing seasons away to get high lottery picks kinda vindicated by embiid and Simmons there was some there was some way to do a modified version that that I think think would've been really defensible and <hes> the other version of that is with the Lakers did for basically this whole decade where they they tanked but it wasn't even intentional. They were just incompetent so anyway. If you look at Philly's decade versus the Lakers decade decade the Lakers were actually probably worse next question. Matthew Illman wants to know with Paul George fleeing okay see one year after resigning. Do you think this adds more weight to your previous argument. The Lakers were banned by the League from signed him last year as penalty for alleged Tampa and this was conspiracy. Bill did weigh in with this year ago <hes> it would seem now that maybe Paul George always intended on leaving for L._A.. But perhaps couldn't do it last year and now he can do. It's from Matthew. Here's my answer. Let's just look at the evidence. We heard for two years that much like coli Paul George wanted come to L._A.. When he was a free agent because he's from southern California he went to Fresno State India India and traded him partly because they were convinced he was ditching them for? They thought the Lakers and then out in L._A.. There's just a lot of talk of Paul. George is coming in a year which on the one hand can be rumors but on the other hand when it's L._A.. And Jeannie buses rubbing the circles with a whole bunch of people and people are saying I saw Jean each Paul George coming. You'd never know what to believe. There definitely was a a real buzz and a real sense that he was coming in a year and everybody thought he was coming Lebron. The Bryan came by himself so Paul George Loses a year ago in an unhappy <hes> series against Utah. They lose in round one in you'd think well that opened the door now. He'll just go to the Lakers I would if he goes the Lakers with Paul George with Lebron while he resigns in late June with okay see without ever meeting anyone without dragging out the process or getting any attention whatsoever for creating any dramatic tension anything even though he's filming a documentary series at the time which is hilarious in retrospect. It's on Youtube but that never sat right with me if you're looking for the spotlight and you have a documentary crew randy. Why are you deciding in late June where you're signing milk it for another week and then do it all right so you got that? The timing was weird year. The Lakers were fined for tampering when she knew you have in April this this previous this April that just happened Magic Johnson mysteriously resigns for reasons that remain unclear did ROB Pelinka backstab. was He upset with like what happened there. Did we ever know Magic Craig. Give us satisfactory explanation for magic resigning no. I don't feel good about it. I don't no no happened with that guy. It was almost like he got pushed out. Conspiracy Bill is design it then July added know where all the sudden Paul George wants to trade to the clippers not the Lakers now the Lakers trade because they give you now seven years of stuff for Anthony Davis but I don't know conspiracy bill gives us like a six out of ten on the conspiracy bill scale. I think there's some smoker. I'm not sure I see a ton of fire. I just do not understand why he signed with Okay A._C._C.. Last June without playing out at all or even meeting the Lakers when all we'd heard for two years was she loves the Lakers he loves L._A.. He wants to play in L._A.. And then doesn't even have a meeting with the Lakers when the bronze coming when everybody knows Lebron is coming. That's weird all right next question. This one hurts. This is from Trevor. I don't know if I want to read this. One Trevor Rides just reading the tea we leave here notice. Jason Tatum is not posted anything about the Celtics this off season that has instagram or twitter accounts. He is not welcome the new acquisitions nor given the Celtics organizations and plans and fans a bicep Flex Alexa Emoji to signal approval on anything what's worse. He congratulated Rozier for signing with Charlotte. He re tweeted a Marcus Morris tweet when Marcus Morris couldn't find a team but was telling everybody was already is GonNa find one and also he happened to go to the same school as Kyrie you went to Duke and they were actually friends last year and that's the guy that <hes> we're all happy driving to the airport Trevor Ash Shoud. Should we be worried. I was like Oh come on. There's no way Jason Tatum hasn't tweet anything. Well I go through his twitter feed. He wasn't lying. There's no Celtics tweets on July sixth. Marcus Morris tweeted either way ago. We Gon make it happen either either way. We find find a make it happen. That's always the mindset he's using some weird words there Finna Finna Yep either way we Finna make it happen so it's mess fixing to going to Finna yet. I'm I'm finished eat tonight. Is this my oldest moment of all time now finishes. That's okay that you don't know okay. How does Kyle Net teach me of this? What happens when Kyle's away so anyway? Jason Tatum re tweets this and adds ads shrillest exclamation point always room for bully see had that and then Roggio signs were Charlotte on June thirtieth bleacher report says terror shares agreed to three or fifty million million dollar deal with the Hornets via via shared per Shamsher Rania. Jason Tatum re tweets my dog three exclamation points couldn't be happier. was there a Kemba Walker tweet earn welcome to Boston and his canter tweet now all right. Let's go back to June twelfth. Bradley beal tweet Stanley Cup Champs three four exclamation points hashtags or at Saint Louis Blues Hashtag Saint Louis Forever and Jason Tatum then re tweets at twitter St Louis forever three exclamation points now. I'm not against that because he's from there and Bradley Beal's Guy. I keep I keep going through in. I don't know Craig. There's just nothing there's there's no indication that he's even on the Celtics. Since this season ended so here's my fear he from what we've heard his name was kind of floated around a tiny bit with the Anthony Davis stuff and how serious was who knows but if they were going to try to get Anthony Davis he you had to be in the deal so maybe heard something. Maybe he didn't like how last season went I'm concerned. I'm concerned in general. I have not enjoyed the last twelve Jason tatum months ever really ever since he came on this podcast I've enjoyed the last year I also checked his instagram and there's just no indication that he's excited about anything with the Celtics so the more of the story is Jason Tatum just re tweeted and his canter Kemba Walker picture and be like can't wait to play with these guys just do something. Don't make me have to sweat this out you. You're only two years into a five year deal all right a couple D._C.. Fans have have emailed me this question some variation of C. P. Three to DC for. John Wall and a first round pick or two first round picks if you're wizards fan you're basically thinking this is their best chance. Creep Bradley beal. We upgrade John Wall. I'm not going to list all the people I don't want to bear some email gummy the trade <hes> you're not trading journals contract and this season you shouldn't because as Joe House keeps pointing out on this podcast it's insured. I think eighty percent if he can't play this year so you're going nowhere anyway a played out have the insurance pay for his deal. <hes> it helps with tanking anyway go for one more top five pack and then reevaluate there was news that broke today on Monday that they offer Bradley Bradley beal three hundred eleven million dollar extension if he turns it down okay you can still take it to February whatever <hes> and you know you can get a king's ransom and by the way we just talked about Jason. TATUM and Bradley beal is closed the Saint Louis thing that that could be a possible match because the Celtics Jalen Brown might WanNa my breakout prospects of the air but he's also going to be a free agent pretty soon I think he's restricted next summer and after after watching Joel Murray get one hundred and seventy million and some of these other guys <hes> from his Ben Simmons got one hundred seventy million in Jalen Brown didn't get anything so you have to wonder like are they in the clock with him a little bit. Would he want to go play for the Hawks from Atlanta. How long is he going to be a Celtic especially if they haven't committed to him so maybe that's part of how this plays out where they overpay a little for Bradley beal and then put him in tatum together? I don't know I'm handling my point is us. D._C.'s trading John Wall. Nobody wants John Wall. There aren't enough picks available to take John Wall and if you're the wizard is just wait till next summer and figure it out and best case there is an awesome shape and actually brings to the table John Moss contract four years one hundred and seventy one million is I think the only realistic C. P. Three Trade as we've mentioned seventy times in this podcast already was <hes> was Jeff teague expiring in in Gorby Dang two years thirty three point five million. What are the ADS? I said Gorge Correctly Georgie Corgi Gorji think it's gorgeous. My pronunciation is getting worse every I used to make fun of Edmund in for this way back now. I'm turning it too so I think that's the only one and I gotta say I think done a little digging on this who represents Carl towns see who represents Chris Paul C._A.. Who has a really good interest in Minnesota being good next year and everybody being happy C._A.? Who Gets Shit done? See A I'm in on C.. C. Makes it happen. I think Chris Puzzle Minnesota for the start of the season making that prediction I let's take a break. Hey rockstar games a one one-stop destination for quality entertainment. Hi in living where's that grand theft auto online the diamond casino and resort offers a range of experience for all kinds of players. Try Hannah Casino Games like three Card Poker blackjack Jack Roulette play slot machines of the variety of prizes. The Diamond Casino and resort is an oasis of luxury with master Penthouse that sits beside the roof terrace with infinity pool and stunning views purchase a penthouse to become a v._I._p.. Member gain ain't access to a series of action packed cooperative missions as you help proper yoder intrigue had party Boy Tau Chang in the diamond staff protect their investment from a hostile takeover by a ruthless Texan oil gas family V._I._P.. Membership ship awesome includes access to V._I._p.. Lange's high limitations ranges special services via the penthouse phone including aircraft limo whole bunch of other stuff experienced the never ending universe multiplayer gameplay possibilities in grand theft auto online online in the latest free update. The diamond casino and resort access is free with every copy available now at Rockstar Games dot com. I think the most fun thing I did this summer is lady. My son finally play grand theft auto. I probably shouldn't of but <hes> he's eleven. He's ready for it and <hes> he's really Jerry. It's fun to play with them so anyway. Check that out all right back to the mail back all right a couple more questions than we'll get to <hes> Kevin Costner the one the only Eric lapointe wants to know you've recently nicknamed. The two thousand ten's the player empowerment decade. I'm curious what each N._B._A.. Decades name would be great question so here's the thing about M._B._A.. Decades kids I don't really know of you can actually just name the decades because what's weird about the N._B._A.. Is the decade actually starts in the middle of each decade. They formed the League in nineteen forty six and you almost have to look at it as ten year intervals or so so from forty-six on until we get to the two thousand ten your name the actual decade from start to finish of the decade. I think it just gets tougher you do something like the eighties are like the bird magic M J decade. The nineties are the too much too fast too soon decade but like I don't know what the two thousand or so. I think it's easier to the way answered it here here. They I think it's eras not decades forty six to fifty six. This is the white guys decade. Wake us the League that you look at these photos of like the <hes> the Minnesota team the Minneapolis team George Mega played on and it's just like twelve white guys. They look like they're all shop teachers. Then Bill Russell comes in fifty six to sixty nine. That's the Russell era. He's the greatest team sport athlete of all timing wins eleven titles thirteen years he ushers in a completely different basketball where all the sudden now. They're allowing black black players to play congratulations. Thanks for thanks for letting people of all colors and <hes> Bill Russell comes in Oscar Robertson Elgin Baylor Lenny Wilkins will chamberlain and the Legions Sam Jones have been there's and ah even like about halfway through Russell's career. There is still this unwritten rule that the N._B._A.. You'd only allowed like two black guys per team 'cause they were so afraid of how the way fans are directors really some dark staff. I covered a lot of this in my book but <hes> the Russell Ushers in this new era and the League starts to change color away his while he's there by the end of it. The League starts to look like what it looks like now so then you go nineteen seventy to nineteen seventy six that's kind of the A._B._A.. Kareem era where Kareem is the best player in the N._B._A.. By far the A._B._A.. Is Now kinda. Come in. They're grabbing people who aren't done with college yet. They're grabbing people right out of high school. They're ushered sure they have the three point line. They're doing dunks and it's just like a much more fun version of basketball. Only it's run horrendously. It's a disaster. The courts are bad. The owners are bad. There's no fans for anything there's barely any televised elvas games but the premise of it is more fun and eventually nine hundred seventy six they merged but I think those seven years is the A._B._A.. In Korean that's how you remember that seventy seventy eighty three they merge are seventy six to eighty three. I guess and this is the taped tape. Delay Cocaine uh-huh era. This is when the League really almost craters you have <hes> just a bunch of disappointing superstars you have drugs just ravaging the league and then you have networks that don't really believe in the product leading to them tape delaying playoff games in the finals in nineteen eighty one when the Celtics in game six in Houston even in Boston. They didn't show that game till eleven seven thirty I went to bed and then my dad woke me up at eleven thirty and we watch the game on tape. Delay didn't listen to the radio to find out what happened. I mean this has happened in my lifetime. It's nuts that leads to eighty four to ninety three which I think is the glory days. These are just great times bird magic the eighty four finals first time they show the finals every game at night and or in the afternoon or whatever but everything's live again <hes> you've Kareem your bird magic if the right team finally finally wins the eighty four finals the bus celtics seven game series just the classic and that leads to a really really great ten year run where the slam dunk contest comes in David Stearns really wilderness influence. You have an influx of awesome squares to watch Dominique Charles Barkley <hes> Michael Jordan obviously comes in Scottie Pippen David Robinson Malone and stockton like e just hall of famers every year just coming into the league and that it's a great ten years. The product was really good. It's what's weird is if you watch the Games from that era they actually resemble the current M._B._A.. More than the Games from the next air ninety four to two thousand three which I call the too much too fast too soon era that's when the wheels came off where he had rookies coming into the league. They're making way too much money right away. <hes> it's player empowerment but in the worst possible way where you have young guys who haven't done anything yet who think that they can control everything. Nobody has to earn anything <hes> there's no mechanism in place to protect people who have gone from being broke kids in high school to playing one year two years in college saw the Senate making seven eight million a year and everything goes wrong late into the night Dan Dan lockout where they try to basically fix some of the ills that had seeped in but as we did that a lot of careers that should have been great just ended up not being that Great Chris Webber Penny Hardaway Kenny Anderson Glen Robinson hope VIN Baker Shawn Kemp You keep going going all these dudes who just should have been Alzheimer's and didn't get there and at the same time the League the quality of play. was you know it was just way too physical way to slow the playoff games that are like seventy two to seventy and <hes> it just was bad and everything kinda crested in the Oh four Olympics when we got our asses kicked and it's all one on one and just no team play at all so aw that leads the next heir the look in the Mirror era oh three to eleven where the League looks in the Mirror and says we have fixed us all right. How do we fix this? Let's add a rookie scale <hes>. Let's add some rules to make the game more fun. Let's get rid handchecking. Let's quicken the pace a little bit at the same time. There's a little more innovation. There's advanced metrics are coming in now. People know to take more three pointers and by the end of two thousand eleven basketball's starting look like basketball like the basketball that we love now you have three point shooters coming in like Steph and clay and <hes> in by the two thousand eleven where you have Lebron Twain weighed in Bosch and already happening of an old school Dallas team really kinda out thinking them and just playing a better brand of basketball and a smarter Banner Basketball Tougher Banner Basque Bonn and toppling them the league's in good shape unfortunately have a lockout that sets us back the way we recover from the lockout and that leads to the player in power manure so even though the decision was in two thousand ten in the look in the mirror. I still felt the league hadn't really figured itself out. I think the two thousand twelve one on is the player Empower Manera really that Lebron going back to Cleveland was the better version of that and now everything that's happened now and shorter contracts that came from the lockout <hes> the ability to pre agency which was the concept coined by a reader. I wish I could remember which reader said that that I said on a podcast I gave it to Jalen rose. I told him on this podcast he was getting to steal it. He immediately immediately went on seventeen that you spent shows and still now as a thing. All that stuff started here so I think those are those I would say would be the eras <hes> and I think my favorite areas the glorious that just because a mold and you look back when you were younger and things are better but it's just the twenty one teams bird magic M._j.. The style play was great. It's just really fun. <hes> I think we can get there again with the N._B._A.. I've I've faith. We've allowed town right now. All right next question Andrew in San Diego from the Bay says can we put some respect. He doesn't use tease K. respect and staffs name. The media consensus on the dubs is they miss my miss the playoffs dynasties over the last time they were underestimated after to the two thousand fifteen championship. Most photo is a result of injuries to other teams what happened seventy three wins while AMAC crazy to think steph can return to m._v._p.. Form and the dubs can still contend. I've heard this a few times and people are acting like nobody is considering this well. I just want to point out there odds to win the title or twelve to one which are pretty good. They're over under for wins issues forty nine which is higher than I thought it is going to be an Steph as the second best m._v._p.. ADDS five to one so I think this is on people's radar. I'm looking at their team. Actually Kinda liked their team if curry unleashed this is probably his last chance chance to have like a real monster m._v._p.. Season I would think maybe he can do well. Maybe he's got two year window here. He got draymond in a contract year who finally realized <hes> last season that Oh if I lose twenty five pounds of new play basketball better congratulations adulation stem you've Diangelo Russel is only twenty three playing on a really smart team that knows how to use guards off ball off screens and had to take advantage of people who just thrive on the perimeter. I think he's going to be really good for them. I and if he's not they can football but I am in the camp that he's going to be good for them. They have Kevon looney and Willie Collie Stein like both of those guys. I'm interested to see Cauley Stein. I think one or two as complete disaster or way better than an anyone thinks I'm in the way better than anyone thinks camp but I like those two guys together. I think it'd be pretty good defensively. Klay doesn't come back until April but they have Alec Burks Affonso mckinney who can <hes> at least give them some swing staff there. They still seem like there guys short but I feel like they're kind of a stealth favorite to land somebody if they need somebody I just Kinda like the team I would compare it to the ninety four bowls when they lost them Jay and everyone just wrote them off and I'm not saying you know they. They have a chance to be as successful as the Bulls. I think when fifty five games pippen was an M._v._p.. Candidate but that one of the reasons they were so a successful is the infrastructure of coaching training staff just having been there before and not being afraid big game experience all that stuff can really matter sometimes and with few look at what would happen the ninety four bowls it was really the experience in the coach in the infrastructure and them kind of realizing how to revolve around a different grade player. I think the warriors I would not count them out. Forty nine wins seems a little high only because because of curry got hurt. I think this would have a lot of trouble offensively but I'm with you. I I don't think the dynasty is over by any means that if they can hold the fort being that five six seven seed range for when clay comes back and if he can come back people come back from that injury now and they're ten months are they seem fine or ninety percent what they were so if that can happen great Josh from Richfield wants to know five years from now who's the best point guard in the N._B._A.. Here the nominees my answer Darren Fox Twenty Years Old Ben Simmons Devon Booker Trae Young Jamaran S._G._I.. Or then Stephan Dame in their mid thirties still doing it. My money would be on the air and Fox. I just think he has a couple of levels up to go. I get Donovan Mitchell. I guess could be inherited. I don't really feel like he's a point guard. I feel like he's just don't think of him as a traditional point guard if you WANNA throw him in there that he's a good inclusion Asian too. I don't really feel like that's why they got Mike Conley because Donald Mitchell really isn't a point guard but Fox to me is like the old school point guard that combines a lot of different guys that are likely there's some Westbrook athleticism with them. There's some there's some Chris Paul run. The game doesn't really care about his stats kind of stuff going on. I think he's incredibly unselfish and is is just a top of the line awesome teammate he made and I just like that guy when you think about how Phoenix could've taken him fourth and put him with booker instead they took Josh Jackson. Oh my God or Philly kit had taken up. I I mean they will not but man some teens kicking themselves J._p.. In des Moines wants to know you guys have danced around this multiple podcast but having zeroed on the perfect new nickname for Koei Co.. Wiser Soza so I guess I'm down with this. I don't know what the deal is with the usual suspects. Have we cancelled usual suspects. Is it done 'cause spacey like we're. We're not allowed to have fun with that movie anymore. I don't I need. I need a ruling from the outrage police. <hes> I like co Azer Soza but I don't know of as usual suspects is just out because spacey's the key character and they were just assume we just Kinda send that to the Pacific Ocean don't think about it again but I like O._S.. or so say <hes> speaking of movies Hartley wants to know if you do the re watchable for the town on which by the way we're doing next month. He says the whole movie hinges on Jon Hamm extracting the Fenway Robbery Platform Blake lively why would renner's deadbeat sister no the intricate details of their next heist. She's a total liability and this is the not fucking around crew even if she knew they're upset they. How would she know enough to spoil? It didn't make sense she would even have the Info Ruins and otherwise great movie for me. <hes> it's a whole I gotta think of some more for the rewatch was it's tough if anybody can and come up with a good explanation for this please help the mail bag at the ringer dot com. It's tough. I also think man they I don't can I is it I can spoiler the town right. It's been ten years yeah. I just think the bank teller gets arrested Rebecca Hall. I think there's just overwhelming evidence that she was colluding with these guys even though she wasn't and then Ben Affleck leaves town at the end and leaves you know five million bucks or whatever it was and then she goes and does this ice skating rink like what is she. Just drop the money off. There's there's a lot of picking stuff there but I think at some point Jon Hamm's like you ran on this bank robbery. I'll long where's your cut and she's just in jail and they're just trying to get information out of her for five years. Well we'll find out more of the next month Chris Ryan Ryan Russillo last question is from Jon Allen Scotland Shadow to Scotland. He says sad but true the two thousand twenty Lakers are basically the Pelicans for for two years ago just replaced jrue holiday with thirty five year old Lebron Mirror teach with Kuzma and Boogie with a fragment of his former self. They even still have Rondo. It's pretty good I mean as you know I'm pro Laker bashing on this podcast the most confusing for me. I was thinking about their team and I'm the same person who genuinely believes Davis is a good m._v._p.. Pick at eight one and I think he could just solve any problem they have just by being incredible and kicking ass for a season with Lebron as as you know his the one beat is one a if those two guys are alive and Kickin ass as Kevin O'Connor pointed out and on the Ring Dot Com on Monday the rest of this stuff doesn't totally manner. But it still does matter because we see him basketball year you need seven eight guys in you need Fred Vanfleet and you need you know J._J.. Berea an Eddie House James Posey. Can you know these dudes but the US Anita happy team. I'm I'm looking at the Lakers can't shake the fact that Lebron Davis succeeded the same position for and if they're going to they're going to play together ideally so you'd want Davis to play the five or he doesn't WanNa play the five view on the four so then you signed Javale McGee and boogie cousins they're going to split time can't play those guys together Sonam and have Lebron Davis boogie cousins or jail the three of them playing together. That seems a little weird because you basically have to have Davis defending the other teams best forward offensive for the other. Two guys are GonNa do it well. Where do Kyle Kuzma Danny Green play then all right maybe Buick by Danny Green and to guard? I can't play Khouzina there. <hes> I also have Casey P.. N. Jared Dudley those guys. Are you know to their small forwards are there too but then asks have Rondo Bradley. They Quinn Cook outs crusoe. I just can't figure out they have one two six eight. They've twelve guys I think at least Hannah those guys are going to be expected to play in their best lineup of <unk> said who your best five guys is probably Lavar the Brian Davis Boogie Kouzmin Danny Green with Lebron at point guard so he who's guarding dame lower Danny Green I he's just I can't wrap my head about the around this roster and I don't. I feel like there's one more trade coming with Kouzmin. Now people think KOUZMINES GONNA sign with Clutch and people have thought that's going to happen for awhile and he just got rid of his agent and had seems like coups ms in on the clutch wagon but I can't like Bradley was one of the worst offensive players in the league. The last two years Rondo really has not been reliable for five years Quinn Cook Okay. I guess this year eleventh man may be Caruso. Dance metrics are pretty good on Caruso playing meaningless games but <hes> not a Casey P fan. I just can't I can't figure figure this team out and if you're playing Lebron Davis Boogie then Kuzma's the odd man out at that point and Kouzmines playing for I think a contract extension or no not a kind of a year from now contracts that you but I don't know it's a weird team. I have the same feeling about it that it it with Philly last year. We're just seems like there's a piece missing or their one move away from being more interest than they are now all right <hes>. If you WANNA email any meal back question says do it do the mail bag at the ringer all right so this Kevin Costner. I really wanted to go two hours of them. I made the mistake of not seeing how much time we had beforehand and it turned out. I think we had like seventy five eighty minutes something like that so I'm going to have to bring him back. Yeah as you'll hear at the end he's going you have to come back but he came on to promote yellowstone which is just a juggernaut. I think it is the most watched show this summer it season two. It's happening right now. You can watch it you can catch up on old episodes but he's on it and he's obviously the biggest Arnett and he's one of the biggest stars the last thirty five years. I've been dying to have him. Come on you'll hear all the stories of our background and <hes> man this is Great Kevin Kevin Costner right now but waiting for this for like five years even came to a great land anniversary party. That's like I gotta get you on a podcast seemed mildly relatively interested not not really then I saw you last year and more realistic and now you hear what was the person was a party so you kind of go in. Let's say also understand. I was raised with wolves. What's a podcast yeah? I can tell at the anniversary so you're cutting off. We're going to like drink something. I don't know what's a pod. I mean you know there's a whole bunch of nomenclature something you know with with stuff in and you go. I'm here to my kids. What what is that so podcast was really? I'm not sure you basically did a podcast at my house at the anniversary party because it was like five of us and we're just asking questions at the end. I was like this is what a podcast would be like well that was worth. It was worth no dinner was I knew do we knew we were headed for each other. Yeah it was going to happen yeah. It was bound to happen and you. You live outside L. A. C. don't come in that often. You've been would Santa Barbara like forever. I went out well. I went out there fifteen years ago. I you know I I'm married a second time and <hes> you know sometimes women. They really help you with things I would. It was a beach pad and I bought it between revenge. In Phila- dreams had a nightmare experience up there you know had four days in between weenies movies long story but <hes> where I stayed my kids weren't rose bushes there and all kinds of is like this wasn't relaxing at all and I kinda made my first movie star thing I I I called up a realtor and I said <hes> Hey I I got I I need to see property on the beach and the guy goes. I WANNA see houses and I I don't WanNa Railroad. I don't WanNA wrote. I want like walk on the beach and they do you want to see this. I said I like see it today and and <hes> and they said we can't do that but let me look at some lessons. Can you go tomorrow. We'll tomorrow. I bought that place <hes> that same day and looked at five and bought it just it was I could flex where I never cricket flex financial. I need this and with started to go ever since and when I finally met my my second wife we would go up there and she did this really simple thing. She said <hes> why why do we <hes>. Why are we going back to L._A.? On Sunday night why we doing that yeah I will be because I I work. She'll have work tomorrow. No but I have to do meetings. She said what kind of meetings and I'm going to keep thank God she goes she goes. Don't you think those same people come up here. Oh yeah because he's pretty powerful point. Well it which you know your powers always in if you think that's what you think I mean I. I felt like I could flex suddenly now I can flex. I kinda hate that personality to begin with yeah. Yeah you know I don't like I don't like that to begin with. I always thought I kind of had power just the power to say no but the but the thing that she did come into my life. Is You know if you're conservative. You think you have something to do on Monday. When if you're brought up in a blue collar backroll I go to work and she goes she just kind of opened? My eyes like the scales came off and she did it real jelly and it was like why are we going back she just because you think he's supposed to be back on Monday. Because I grew up in a family where he had one week vacation and then my dad worked twenty years he got the second week yeah and your go to back to work on Monday. I remember that go wow we're in yosemite why we going but what we had do because that's what my dad did and she looked at me and she goes why don't we settled Tuesday and we did and we started where she kind of. I mean I should have been old enough to think for myself but it took her to Kinda do that and then and and then when we got married we we moved up there and we've been there for fifteen years and I wake up on the ocean every day. I was flipping channels two weeks ago in nightshift was on with Michael Keaton and Henry Winkler is one of my favorite eighties movies and was the move made Michael Keaton his star. Yes you're in this movie. You're in the morgue. There's a big party in the morgue after they have all these call girls and there's Kevin Costner right <hes> one of the Frat guys <hes> helping somebody do like a beer chug or something. This is like nineteen eighty two. It was at your first break. It was not so much for I tell my first break was when I finally started to listen to myself and when you come from a conservative background you're always kind of a pleasing mode rock the boat my brother was in Vietnam last thing I wanted to be a pain in the ASS. Thanks so I kinda grew up playing by the rules playing by the rules going to go that particular direction and one day I thought I I really needed to think for myself now. Most people listening Kaji Cab I. We all think for ourselves but I didn't sometimes I wanted to please yeah and I knew I needed to get out of that business and chase my own. Thanks so that was probably the biggest break ever had my life was I actually had internal conversation. I said you can't just be pleased and everybody the rest of your life. You have to do what you know you can do and they'll know when and and go that direction but did you know you wanted to be an actor. You Know Guy News now no but I I knew it was a storyteller and if I kind of retrace the breadcrumbs in my life I see you know I grew up doing music and the best church I grew up doing poetry. I grew up writing stories stories so if I look back but the reality was I never I thought people that were on the screen. Were born on the screen compute that you could just do something. I also came from the background that if you're going to do something you'd have been taking drama in high school. I said well. The people did drama in high school. Were nerds like I didn't WanNa hang out of it went to cal state fullerton. Yeah I found myself want the breadcrumbs again. I wandered into that theatrical department. Everybody was barefoot. Everybody smokes cigarettes. Everybody sat cross-legged landed on the floor the very Bohemian thing and I thought I'm not interested in that either that kind of you look the part yeah and so I kept brushing up against it been being pulled back away from it but finally when I look back I said and I I can do this. I I like the storytelling thing and I'm GonNa. I'M GONNA burn my ships. I'm I'm burning my ships. I'm so the big show was then you're next big break and then you get cut out you get cut out but I want to go back to that thing you mentioned about <hes> nature nightshift because there's some kind of interesting happened there. Yeah I <hes> <hes> I was asked to go down and read. There's a movie being cast in Hollywood and <hes> I was stage manager at Raleigh Studios and I was asked if I could go and I said well you know I I said and they go look. You'll get your SAG card. I was having a hard time getting my sag card yeah so they said if you go read it was it was for flashdance. I read every girl in town that was up for that role the most beautiful girls young girls and girls that we all know today yeah came through their Demi Moore <hes> Sean young all these different people I mean you've just keep going right down the list and I read Ed. I read opposite but but what you have to understand it was. I was glad I was doing that every day. It was a scene where I was getting slap. The Shit out of and Michael Nouri ended up playing the part <hes> I was never intended to play the part but the big deal it was I got three hundred and twenty five bucks. It was it was scale ad never made that kind of money working at Raleigh studios for three dollars and fifty cents an hour and so I got my sag card the thing that I had been wanting and it's really funny in life. You know you know you if you get your side car. Do you know everybody goes. We'll do a commercial and it's not that easy. Yeah you have to do it. Actually it was Francis where I got it but the reality was because I had my sag card I could do that reading and then right after that Uh. Somebody said they just saw me to go. Hey where you and be we need some extras and we gotta pay him SAG. I did the net flex saying I did France or deny nightshift thing and then a day later they were shooting Francis with Jessica Lang and Sam Shepard separate and I there were they needed another sag that maybe he's going to say something. Maybe he's not. I don't even know my own biography anymore but the reality was probably know better than you within five days I had done <hes> nightshift table. Oh for five and and Francis all for SAG and I just I just kept going three hundred sixty bucks sixty bucks three hundred sixty bucks. It was like four days of it and it was a big deal for me. Yeah it was a really big deal. Did you think the big chill you thought you were going to be in that movie with flashback scenes and stuff right which you filmed yeah I thought I would be and at the end of the day. It didn't make it you know it. I think you're you've lived on Youtube Yeah. There's some deleted yeah but everything happened for me in that particular movie that needed to happen. I was around the right guy the right actors at the right time walling to see too probably the most important not the most important. That's a that's a we are title but she's a casting director. Yes she's tough really tough. I didn't figure a person like her would even like me but she was a force of will for me and in Lawrence Kasdan had just come off the body heat and now he's doing the big chill and <hes> you know a lot of times. Our studio has to approve everybody. Larry was GONNA had any didn't he raiders to like he was he was erode. Continental divide raiders an empire so he was UH history. He's got this but he was he was it and he he really you know is incredible and so now he's doing body was just blew people away. It was so good yeah now he's doing the big show and his cats and all the young actors that are really out of New York out of juilliard and hit and run those all by the student but there was one part that didn't have to run by the studio it was just could be him and at least that's what I was told in Wally kept saying this guy this guy and he gave me the part and everything I kinda based a lot of what I do came out of that experience so not being in the movie people don't understand. I didn't look at my movie as a one and done situation I mean I guess if I was in some state in the movie came in like the circus and they said hey do you WanNa do these lines on the street corner and now I take everybody to theater and that is not in there. Maybe my career but I had a bigger idea about what was going to happen. When I was cast in that movie I actually knew at that moment everything had happened? Yeah regardless what happened with that movie everything that needed to happen for me at that point did well oranmore and they decided to put you in a movie he did. He put me in a second one. He put me in Silverado but it was the the moment I got the part. I knew my life has changed not the moment I filmed it yet. A Moment I went down the red carpet not the moment it's like like listen. People can look at a game until when it's lost true people can look in a season until when it's over you know people can look at a moment and I I kinda choose to look at things really athletic. I even direct wreck with Chalk Board. Sometimes I get into big action scene. Yeah I get a chalkboard out and so you got to be here when this explosions happened this where you've gotta be Bella Check Yeah. This is where you have to be because most people I realize when you're looking the Adam and they're giving you Chin buggies or heads going up and down there really saying quit looking at me. Don't talk to me. I don't know what you're saying. They're doing that and so when that bomb goes off and they don't go and you what the heck happened here. I was really clear with him so I thought I'm not I'm doing this anymore. I'm getting a chalkboard when that goes off your here yeah and then when his head goes up and down. There's a visual he's not frightened but a lot of times young actors or whatever they're doing this but they're they're not getting. They're just thinking. Don't look at me anymore more than you move off. They moved off so Silverado. I remember that one but the one would I the first movie I remember seeing you in was American flyers. Yeah people think breaking ways the best by bicycle movie ever. That's that's a whole it's it's the consensus I'm an American Flyers Guy Interesting. I just love that movie and it was on cable for like two straight years and that's how I saw it was just on H._B._O.. And H._B._O.. Under tension and be like like Papillon when you walked out of there you know ten remember took that extra step number one two three four and then he went that was a great moment in that movie that that thing that really that's like one of those things when a rider hit something so perfectly that you can't explain life in prison and then taking that extra step was like you know I I love the poetry stuff like that so you are like the one of the best bicyclists in the world was the gimmick but you you were dying yeah yeah I really like in crazy shape in the bike. Scenes are like incredible cove in what was it called like the hell on the something Yeah Hell Hell West Helena west of shooting helicopter helicopter shots and like you're doing all those stuff and you're in like crazy shape and that was successful but I think coming out of that people all right that guy so I'm I'm a breaking away fan. I'm a breaking away fan. I'm like a you know it's like I thought that was great but the rider was the same writer the same writer who wrote breaking away Oh yeah yeah and was his name Steve Passage Attache Tesha and and we lost him right away about two years after that but I would have been a friend for life life was something about him. That was <hes> really I really liked him. He was a real deal well when people you know you're obviously the goat for sports movie actors. You've been in what sex could be America. Fires always gets left out after you've been in like six or seven pancake eating draft came around because they actually i WanNa talk about that second. No way out was winning. All took off right. No way out was a movie right right after Silverado had been called by Orion. They want to have a meeting with me so I went and talked with a guy named Eric plus cow yeah it was four guys that really ran Orion Mike Medavoy Bill Bernstein Arthur Krim and Eric plus cow and they'd see Silverado which was of catchy movie. Yeah I had a scene stealing kind of park. You can see it on paper. It's like you know a lot of people go all that person stole stole the movie or whatever that can happen on Broadway lot with really cagey actors in film. It's on paper already you can see unless you're just a dummy I can you can steal this movie and but you're not supposed to steal. You're working with everybody. You can tell what the flashy rollers Silverado was all of that for me. That was an what did you think about that when you started writing stuff like creating roles like that for people. No I think about it. You just know it but you know you want that to happen. When I'm a leading man I I need people to do the dance? I've always embraced the idea somebody stealing healing or seed stealing. Thanks because I know where I stand I know yeah works and <hes> but that particular movie <hes> I knew had that kind of juice on it and so I get a call from Ryan so let's come. We'd like to talk to you about movies as you know and and they pointed out some movies to me and all of them. I didn't really really care for and I said I said but if you really want to do something I did read a movie that I liked and they said what was it and I said it was this movie over at Warner. Brothers called finish with engines and they said why I said it's it's. It's it's it's really good. I said I'd do that movie with you and so they read it and they liked it finished with engines enable term for shutting down the engines you see on the titanic full ahead one third those brass. Thanks yeah well at the very bottom of the naval terms is slashing it says finished with engines when you turn them off that became no way out. Oh Wow so it was a movie I had found and <hes> and said to them. I'll make this movie and. So they did and that movie came out really well but they did. They did an interesting thing that movie was shot before untouchables and so I went right from no way out to untouchables and what happened was Orion was not it was is called mini majors kind of smaller movie. Although they were making Oscar movies yeah they didn't have the kind of dough that the big studios had and so they looked at it and they go. We're GONNA let untouchables come out first and then I came out they held it and then came out about two months later. Oh Wow I don't I feel like now looking back. I was thought no way Oh Kim I but I yeah but they but they played and I and I was thinking what's going on here where they will. They're going to let that well. I like no way out I think it'll work but they a play that and used the drum roll that came with that movie and rolled into no way out so they played they played an interesting chess game with that movie and no as one of those move. It's always on cable Stelle even all these years later <hes>. It's just one of those movies that is always gonNA work. Yes spy thing with the twist at the end and it's just somebody somebody young that flashdance thing. Oh Yeah I met Sean and I thought this girl is classically beautiful. Girl looks like girlfriend the forty s you know what I mean like those black and white traditional headshots she looked she looked like that and I I remember her and I and I mean people thought she was going to be a plus lister. Some little Iraqi right always go the way she probably wanted but she was perfect for us and she was perfect in that movie now you know so but I but then in untouchables urine with Deniro connery and all of a sudden you go from four years you you get cut out of a movie with Deniro Connery. Yeah that's pretty crazy yeah that was that and and then then at that point. I knew I was going to direct and people were thinking. I didn't direct yet but I was already headed that way because I worked at Raleigh I studios down here on Bronson right across from that's what I knew I was going to do and sometimes people said well. You know you you know you know whether you're moving kind of quick and I'm thinking what are you talking about. I've been waiting forever to do this. It didn't emerge as eighteen year old. I didn't have that moment that risky business moment of going across and you know being it was later but that was a function of me deciding in my senior year in college at this is what I was going to do you you know they always say that about celebrities that the Mo the age you become famous as the age your trap that and if you become famous when you're older it's a huge advantage. I think Clooney said I think this is like a clooney. Thing because clooney was always like the best thing ever happened to me is when everything hit for me. I was like twenty nine thirty one. It's kind of word that's Kinda weird hit hit for me and and <HES> and you wanted earlier trust me. You're deserving of it. You think you're better than everybody else. That's out there. You're you can't figure rottweiler. It's not whatever but it's it's a big thing but as I was working at Raleigh I was always thinking I'm I'm GonNa direct so what happened was as this kind of my trajectory was moving the way it was moving. I had that was in my mind line. You're thinking like this is all leading to me. Get in touch with man movie yeah but what was your experience with fame as it like ballooned all the side of the net you went from you just walking down the street. I will now the Guy Bugler staring so you know I it's funny I I I one of the first things I went was asked you by Mike Medavoy said would you want. I'm going to go to this lifetime. He was busy. He'd have to go to all these functions around. I didn't even know the terms of things on the night of my Oscar. I didn't go to spargo's or these places and I think I pissed a lot of people but had no idea that you were supposed to yeah. I people have no idea that I didn't really even know about the world except that I just wanted to tell stories yeah. I didn't know the culture of it. I didn't yeah no the whole thing that that you make the rounds. I didn't know it was going to happen with our movies so I got a restaurant with a hundred people that that that worked on the movie and and Got Sixty seventy tickets for the Oscar and said well we'll be together so I never made the lap our economy that fucking cost Yeah Premadasa. I had no idea I was sure they weren't GonNa let my fifty friends in dry and and <hes> but I didn't know that that was a thing that you did so you know. It's really really really strange. I forgot where we were at that. Were basically like when when the trajectory flipped well you know I think maybe what Georgia saying too. It's like. I wasn't that impressed. I was just anxious to keep working yeah. That's where I was playing. I that's how I I played myself out but the first time <hes> I was saying that I went to a function Mike Medavoy asks me. He said Hey I'm GonNa go to this lifetime achievement award. I had no idea what that was. I know it must have lived in a cave I saying so I go to the Beverly Hilton or something they do. Golden Globes her and it was for Gregory Pack and Yeah I knew he was up to a was and I remember walking in in bulbs going crazy a flashing I mean blinding and I walked in and <hes> I I don't think no way out had come out yet and not a camera went not a camera went but I went and watched one of the great ones one one of the greatest of all for sure <hes> he really is and that was impressive to me and four or five women who had worked with him during the course of his curse stood up and talked and that part I kind of in love with the the poetry that our business can be not at not. It's not always necessarily is I love the I'm romantic about what you know we can do and what we can be. Let's take a break Stac M. and M.'s when my favorite reports of kicking back to watch a game or some movie streamed is enjoying my favorite treats Game Day treats movie traits while you can take it to the next level with the new EMINEM's hazelnut spread chocolate candies guaranteed to deliver <unk> delicious Combo of hazelnuts bread and milk chocolate in every bite sized piece going where no hazelnut spread has gone before right inside eminem chocolate candies. Oh my God if you love Eminem chocolate candies and you love hazelnut spread. Just wait until you try these together for the first time enjoy them on their own or using to dress up your other favorite treats magin than baked into cookies or sprinkled on top of your go-to ice cream flavor or might go to move them ebbs he make popcorn and just dump the EMINEM's and the popcorn NATO like melty. I love those that's I am a huge fan. That's how they make that. Do not make the giant EMINEM's though giant. It's like an Eminem bar. It's like a chocolate bar with like big. I mean they just continue to delight me with all the stuff coming but check this one out. Go Hazel Nutty and try the New Eminence Hazelnut spread chocolate candies today was that it was there some point where you just felt. Oh you get any movie wanted. 'cause everybody has that run when they come like red hot. Did you have word like projects just getting thrown at you know they were. They were being which one do listen I <hes> I postponed the answers because I didn't. I didn't have my ending right yeah. I didn't have it right and I didn't WanNA shoot and then <hes> and I saw the movies I put in front of it were field of dreams revenge and because I waited because I knew that the ending wasn't right. I watched really really carefully a much probably more than I I was. I was always educating myself but in a way that gun had gone off and I go. I'm going to be directing this time. Next year. Yeah and I really was watching enclose <hes> and so people we skip Durham. Though <hes> we skip all during the didn't go bull Durham field of dreams yeah revenge and dances yeah I was but I really focused on <hes> yeah. The the field of dreams wasn't supposed to happen. I you know it just wasn't supposed to happen. I <hes> it was a movie that was <hes> GonNa go the same time as revenge and basically revenge just kept getting postponed postponed Poland and I finally you know I just said to them. Look I read this little movie about the corn and I really like it and if you don't sort this out I'm going to do that and it was a ray stark legendary producer <hes> tough guy said I'll Sumaya and I said I know I know that's that's kind of what comes out of your mouth and <hes> and reminded him at some point that he was a smart guy. Aren't you smart Guy Yeah and I said you need to figure this out because you stretch me too much so I did those both of those particular movies and that's when I came to dances and again we've woven a tail and I think I've forgotten the kernel of what what <hes> foster this well. I thought oh the choices were really cool. Though what's you know just the movies you picked Oh. You said you said movies any anyone you want yeah. 'cause you do buy movies in a row which is supposed to have yeah. I didn't think that was very good idea on my part heart but I but they were undeniable to me. Yeah they were just undeniable and I and I believe I'm a script guy and I don't believe in the elements I believe in the script and so when you read the Bull Durham script you must have gone nuts and that it was it was it was we didn't change a word yeah. I've had about ten scripts like that. We're really Aurora which is probably maybe maybe eight more than most people. Were there always manipulating him. I've read some. I've been a part of some things that just didn't change change because they were written and written and rewritten and I guess what written unwritten means to you can do to catch me if you can't. We'll edit that but the idea of doing anything I want yeah and I remember four so I postponed answers and then I got now. Those two movies were over and now is prepping. This movie couldn't get the money on nine million bucks overseas both movies to American movies. I Made <hes> open range and and and <hes> dances with wolves I couldn't get a made it I hear and I money came from overseas. Dances did open range crazies. You couldn't get dances bad. You'd had like seven hits at a row yeah it was they didn't want to make it so it was like okay. I'm GonNa make what would they just thinking like that like now. We're seeing hundreds. Here's the problem was me because I did tell them that it was going to be long. I told them ahead of time. I said it's going to be three hours. I told everybody because I went through the system twice <hes> finally on the last one at Warner Brothers when they said we'd really like to do this but the when he did the subtitles and I and they go we it's going to be long. It's going to be three hours and it's going to be subtitles. We'd really like to do this with you but we really. We don't think we can't one and two guys who are my friends to this day. Were really helpful my career. They said no to me and I said just before I walked out the door was in with Jim was my partner. I said Oh I probably should let you know about one other thing and I said what's what's that I go. I Ha I need need to have final cut and and I got up and walked out and as I walked out my producing partner if that was the door and there's big roundtable and wonder but since we've got another side door and I use this for inspiration and in thirteen days actually <hes> as soon as we got outside the door the door shutting because what was that about the end to talk like that 'cause they're wondering what was that about like what was what about. He said the final cut thing yeah I would you you say final set and I said well then you hear him. He goes what he goes they. They don't know that the subtitles are really important to the sense of humor. I said and they don't know that the length is really not intentional. That's just how long the story goes I said how can I let my film go to this place. If we don't have final cut yeah and then we walked down the hall. I mean you hit their seventeen ways. That film could have gone wrong. If you didn't have final cut right they could woody. We took out our listen. It could've gone wrong with me because I was the only one that could ruin it once. I decided to make it because I had a great script now. I'm thinking this is a great script. I'm but I don't have a lot of experience here so you know <hes> and you had to job also be the lead actor was that the directed always amazed when anyone can do that is really hard. I don't remember what your performed bill haters. Yeah friends is Bill Hader. Who's doing that now? At Barry where he's directing allow the episodes he's writing rated them but he's also performing in it and he said it really took him a couple episodes just to figure out how to just become these different people set. We're I'm I'm in charge but now I'm acting my problem was I. I give myself too few takes eggs. I kinda like do it and then I start to move on and volume I producing parts that you need to give yourself more takes. You're just you're not. You're not rushing anybody else except yourself. <hes> that's interesting. You know you don't rush yourself. You know and I need like an offensive coordinator coordinator to just get you to get do section eight yourself another. You know whatever you do. Don't rush yourself because I was like sometimes seen wasn't over. I go that's great. We got that and it was like I realize the cameras on me. I'm looking at everybody else we U._S._O.. You'd hit this point and I wanna go backwards to talk about the do baseball moves in second you would hit this point heading into that movie where people are like Oh fuck. This guy is getting direct a three hour western and you could well. None of them knew it was three hours but they were saying fuck this guy for some reason factor that goes back to your core question you said. Could you do anything you want it. What happened was right after field of dreams in revenge I get offered hunt for Red October and I seriously yeah and you've been good in that? I had to say no because Eh go what and Mace Newfield who I got <hes> no way out made he was the guy but I won't movie wasn't getting made it was in turn around. He was the producer of of I think of a hunt for Red October and pay me five million dollars dollars. That was like four million dollars more than I'd ever been paid. It was also I was thirty was also in the whole <hes> with having put my own money in a- dances so I'm thinking to myself yeah. I'd like to hunt for Red October or to have five million dollars. Get it but I gave my word. I'm doing this movie and that set off somewhere drum wall that I turn my back on that and now I'm out there doing some movie. That's just going to tank that started the drum roll from from somewhere. I don't know who did it why but it was me being arrogant enough to say notify million but it wasn't saying no to that I would have suggested that one hundred thousand times but I had already said yes to something else and I wasn't as long as you put your own money in depth wolves. Yeah try not to do that well. I know I listen. I I like it. I'm a big bet on myself guy one more good deal and we're both probably in. I've had to do that and I did that there. I mean that movie cost sixteen million dollars. Yeah it was a lot but identity put in sixteen. I it's funny that era of so late eighties early nineties was air of movie coverage. You'd Premier Magazine by magazine is out there you had New York magazine was writing about stuff. It was I remember reading all the stuff being in college and it was the first time I was aware of the different narratives not never knowing what was true and one of the I remember reading about like costumes making this western directing thing is n. p.. I remember like the kind of snark wasn't even with it and and then it became obviously but I didn't hear the good news was I didn't hear about that. Till I came home. I was out in South Dakota for a hundred and eight days. She's most movies are like fifty sixty. Hey well I was this movie was taken it. You know it was like I had to you know I. I only went like three percent over budget. Even I went over all those day. You've really been in a lot of states. Yeah you even Iowa South South Dakota Colorado. You'd probably have the most interesting map of where well. If you do a sequel you go to the same state if you do those things are gonNA end up in the same places but I you know we go but let's go backwards second to <hes> Bull Durham Yeah Yeah was crash. Davis how much of Crash Davis was crash. Davis Script Crash Davis and how much of it was Kevin Costner taking the crash Davis D._N._A.. Yeah Well Ron Ron Ron split that up but but the the point was I never changed the dialogue because it always felt like that was like kind of Alternate Universe Kevin Costner in that movie now. You've just been a minor league baseball player. That was yeah. Well you know the one the one thing I got from boulder my bought that car the garage green that Greece shell say seriously. I got put that thing on Ebay you could you could make hunt for Red October to fund it. Yourself could make some dumb. That's so funny yeah. I wonder what that thing is worth earth l. well especially if it's the Bull Durham car yeah it is. That's worth like seven hundred thousand dollars yeah then we'll make a movie these days now indy won't make a movie but the Shelton you know he he he's he's he's. He's this toughest guy ever want to meet and he's just got this heart of a poet and <hes> you know he went he played against <hes> he played with Grit and Baylor and Baltimore Yeah Organization but you know he was always kinda right in the back back in the bus and and he wrote that he wrote that thing and it was just let her perfect and it was <hes> it was I you know like field of dreams. I knew that was great but no one was going to make that either because I'll tell you what happened. We tried to make it. We were like a couple of hookers on Santa Monica for Newmont trying to I was going to everybody. I didn't go to Orion where I'd already made two movies with why why not go there well there was a couple of reasons one. They had two other baseball Palmer had dangerfield's a scout and they had a good and but the point was they're not gonNa take on a third movie so I didn't want to kind of push my fans into it. I thought Oh so we went around and <hes> no no one would do it. No one would do it. <hes> finally Fox are going to do it but they do it for four million. That's what we needed six million dollars to make this movie but they had worked at so low that Ron was just looking at me then and I get offered <hes> everybody's all American which I really liked and I said to Ron. I go Ron. We you know I I liked this movie. <hes> although it changed and I there was parts of it that I didn't like it anymore on paper but I wanted to do everybody's all American but I said I'll stick with you but we can only go through this a little bit more so we still didn't have any success. I decided I called the guys Orion. I said listen <hes>. This is a baseball movie. I said it's Thursday. I said it's Great <hes> I know you're. I know you're foreign guy. Say there's no upside in this movie yeah I said I think it's great and I said but you're going to have to tell me tomorrow. At noon on Friday -Oday those Eric Guy The guy that I talked to about Silverado right and about five minutes to noon he called me said we'll do it and they took Bull Durham. I mean that's purely we want to stay Dan the Kevin Costner business. I would guess yeah I maybe I maybe I should have led with that but I kept saying the movies great movies great and they're going move next movie will for you because it was a great part. It's become an iconic sports movie but but more importantly you've got to show off your baseball yeah. It was an era where before before that movie most times when people are in a movie it was usually an actor. They were shoehorning into sports movie who couldn't actually carry it. Everybody was so impressed like you look catch I had. Yeah I had a I had a thing happened on you know he went out and cast all the teams and that we would play against and they were all like a AA AAA players and they all came to the Park Bull Durham Park and there so there was sixty guys up there and they they were dividing thank everybody established that they could play but they're all having hitting practice and I was really ducking my turn. I was just thinking Jesus. I I was just kind of ducking my turn and it was a big part Grady Richardson who actually coached the Atlanta Yeah <hes> yet he was the minor interleague guide who's in in Phila- ninth grader Varsity baseball tried. Just go up there. I you know I hadn't really even worked out but I <hes> I I remember finally I was like wow and I finally got to the point where I did and nobody gave a shit who who was hitting yeah but when I went up there I could feel everybody kind of just stop talking because it was fifteen guys and right. There were six guys here whatever and they're like Oh. Here's something something that happened. That never happened to me before number one. I I went up there. I was really really nervous. That's not what never happened before but I was really nervous and I'm and I remember the first pitch came and <hes> <hes> I fouled it. <hes> I found it straight down but I found it and <hes> which was which was the inspiration for me to just dribble that ball out and field of dreams. It just dribbled out. Oh yeah that's funny yeah. I remember telling the director on Philip Dreams I said I said wouldn't it be better if I said it's really hard to miss a ball when you throw it up in the air. It's one of the hardest things to do as miss something on purpose I can drop something legitimately. Drop it but to drop something on purpose. Even Olivier can't can't do that. It looks like you dropped it I said but if I hit the ball and when as as the guy playing with shoeless Joe Jackson you WanNa hit it out there for them you really want to and I so I said rather than miss it. What if I top this ball all and it just dribbles out six feet where I have to go get it and he goes you can do that and I said yeah I play St Paul? I can yet so I did that. That was the inspiration but that same thing happened to me right there. On Bull Durham I take a swing and I hit and where I should have been humiliated. I wasn't I was thinking shit man. They say okay. I just got somewhat <hes> I just I just tipped out as I I cut. I tipped it so the second pitch I hit what only could beat termed as the soft line drive you'd ever WanNa see just had nothing on it it kind of a number it wouldn't even bent the grass if it hit it but it went to the shortstop out there. There was three or four shortstops because everybody was hanging out he just kind of put his glove open. It was Kinda limply with it had nothing on it right and I stepped out of the box and I go what is wrong with you talk. I had with myself in college that I'm going to do this. I'm going to take control trolling my life. I had right there. Really I said I'm the only guy here has a job. Are you kidding me. I'm I making over a million dollars. I'm the only one here has a job and I stood back in there and something happened. That never happened before and didn't really happen that day. I hit it over the fence at like three sixty five. Wow I never hit a home run in organized baseball all the baseball I ever played. I was never a home run here. I had a couple in the side the part it never hit went on literally in Babe Ruth in highschool never hit home run. I'm twenty eight years old twenty nine years old. I hit my first home run right in front of all these guys and then you have to act cool well I. I didn't have to run on up to run but he hit a home run. That's my and I've I've had these kind of moments in sports and that was a moment yeah so that was the confidence after that yeah well. I had the confidence when I had the talk. It wasn't the hit that are you. Are you taking notes Kyle. This is what you need to do. Just take a deep breath remember. You are the talk time you play Sports self-talk. Okay that thing was what everybody else saw me driving down the freeway after getting the part and big chill my career had changed yeah in the freeway it had changed. I know when I talked to you about when the momentum of something changes you feel it yeah I when I had that talk I was. That's where it happened. The swing was what the swing was what the world gets to see but it's not always defining who you are. Hey let's take a break talk about Google Fi. Doesn't it feel like most phone plans just weren't made with us a mind between bad coverage paint too much for day to you. Don't ever actually using crazy crazy. Roaming charges Google Fi is a phone plan by Google made with features that people like you and I actually want features like free international roaming say never have to worry about calling you provided let them though be traveling three networks in one c-can stay connected wherever you are from your home to your office and everywhere in between Google fireworks on your favorite smartphones you don't have to switch phones just as switch plans. It's as easy as just download the APP in the only have to pay for the data you use plus with bill protection if you ever do us a lot of data you're bill is capped at a reasonable amount learn more at five dot google dot com that is F.. I DOT GOOGLE DOT COM switch to Google fi of phone plan by Google and since we are don't forget about three watchable 's reservoir dogs coming coming Friday here Tarantino week on the ringer. Check that out check out the little special three podcast thing we did on a on the old Halloween on mass feed check out the big picture shot Venezia all that stuff tarantino way. Let's go back to Kevin Costner. Did you cook with Susan Serandon Way. Pardon me did you click with Hereto the interesting. How does that work with actors? Sometimes it's tell you what you want to see a heavyweight fight. There was a heavyweight fight there and I'll tell you what it was. This part was as good as crashes part yeah that her part was as good as crash new CATA fabulous part but but that was a that was a career changing part for someone and it came down to two actors and I'm not gonNa tell you who the other I'll come on thirty years now I can't because because the reality is it broke my heart because I knew and the person went up for it was really good. Yeah really good sexy smart actress and I thought these two women both if viewer beginning actress you don't even stand a chance against them because what was on the line. There was a second half of a career yeah a second career and Serandon came in and Ron had to choose between two oh great actresses and Serandon got it and I she's in your rated her next eight years or a career but it's so weird everybody's looking at who got it and for some reason I'm looking at this and I'm thinking the other actress because Serandon went on Sean connery run yeah like what Hap- you know. Where's where's <hes> Sean after bond or something? She was always a great actress. She had a really great career. There's this little middle ground and then Bull Durham came along and she just showed everybody who she was for the next twenty five years yeah that was that big a role and so I kind of go through this business looking sometimes not at what everybody else I was looking at well. She somebody who won. I'm looking. I'm looking at like look who loss what yeah you know what I mean. I see a different narrative a lot of times and what I see she somebody that almost like an athlete was like a lottery pick like she'd been in a couple of really good movies a little bit earlier and then as sometimes happens with actresses. Sometimes you a couple of the wrong parts there's less parts and then she can go five years in that Avak exactly but that was a <hes> that was a that was a complete so I'm always cognizant of that. When I'm giving parts that you change lies because member Atlantic city with Burt Lancaster she was like you you left that guy? She's a star doesn't right. Sometimes you know get the performed but that girl was like felt like a best friend. Can you explain the Tim Robbins throwing motion to me so he did. He throw out his arm what happened. It's a movie listen he he you know I you know I don't it's just hard to buy that. He's starring ninety nine miles an hour with no of course not of course not you see that perfectly but that's that's what's so interesting about sports yeah about thing because understand something Olivia. If he can't really pitch he might be the greatest actor that ever lived he ain't GonNa make it and the icefall movie and and even the non athlete can look at somebody who is not an athlete and can tell. There's something undeniable about that Tim. Tim played the role but you can't really always fake baseball. You just can't do it. It's it's it's it's it's a there's a reality thing there but ron totally supported him and he was everything we needed him to be but it but but but you're not wrong about you know you see or what you saw. You can't throw nine anyway. I threw eighty four. Would you throw in for love of the game. Were you hit it for that was eighty four well. You're older than though yeah we really. Were you forty at that point. You must have been over forty. Yeah rickie green was the empire. He's the one that told me Ricky Rizzo a national he was a professional baseball <hes> ref yeah and a empire and I happen uh-huh. I tried to be careful with all those young guys because they were out of the farm system to I brought my friend Augie Garrido in to play the manager of the Yankees Yeah and then he would also go pick the other athletes that would play in the movie movie that weren't Abdin have really speaking roles so Augie came and and and and he did all that and I was real conscious because a lot of these guys you know had an opportunity at careers you know and I'm the last thing I needed to do was hit them because I was getting revved up in front of a crowd and throwing and hitting them. How many people at the at those for love of the game did you? How many extras were they probably three or four thousand five thousand? Maybe not that I mean I don't we moved him around yeah. There's a couple of stories there that you can't believe a key but anyway with with that thing I never I was talking about two three hundred pitches a day for about eighteen days. It's one of the great pitching performances in the history of baseball. I don't know how you didn't blow your rotator cuff house and pain and richly the Chili Davis came back and I was I was in a thing because good God what's happening in this guy just came back from the world series and I was in there and the blood was pumping that my heart on everything I finally just vomited. The pain was so great and chilly goes. What are you guys doing and they were doing everything wrong long? We ended up getting the manage the actual trainer for the Yankees and I hope I'm not talking out of school here but the reality was this guy came to my rescue. I started having to take a little bit of stuff. Yeah I had to start to take a lot out of stuff some recovery well just two yeah. There's no recovery you weren't getting suspended where that was my point on the last night and I'll tell you that story I use David Cone and <hes> so I was still in that many pitches and I was also getting juiced up to yeah and on the last day we decided we were going not inside. We knew we were going to do. We're going to simulate the whole game day into night starts in a day and a night six cameras all the same cameras that the ATV at that time was actually covering major league baseball all the same angles so it was like a real real gas you think it's some of the best baseball footage ever done and by that time thanks and by that time <hes> everybody knew the game. Everybody knew the pitches. Everybody knew what each battery was supposed to do but I was going to have to go out and pitch for about five and a half hours six hours and so I get the trainer and I said Cy Young in the eighteen hundred S. I said I got him and I said Hey look what if you had had a player who has never gone up play again David Cone this is his last game needed a game. You didn't want to do certain things but David says you need to do it. I need to do this thing. I said. I'm not going to get through. This and I said whatever we've been doing. How this dose has been going up yeah we have to we have to go higher? I said I have to I have to you know what I have to do now because he didn't even know how movie work by now he'd seen what I've been going through. I said I can't get through this. I said Said we have to I said I need couple green ones. I need the blue and I said I need one that you haven't brought out yet. I need whatever you haven't brought out yeah. Look I'll take it later and because this isn't a day and I looked at a serious I said I need to do this because I can't not go anywhere any were there. Six cameras were going through the night and Steve looked at me and he's like okay and so we took him <hes> he put a bunch on my arm wrap. My arm was going to start in a daylight and I start to go up the steps and the last thing he says to me as I'm walking up that steps he said you're going to growl at a few people and I'm thinking how hyped up am I going to be but that that was his word smell. Never forget him. You're going to growl at a few people and I remember that scene where almost hit that guy yeah <hes> in the one pitch I almost blow the perfect game by throwing them you know and he starts complaining. I come off that mountain. I'd it's like if you ever look at that thing like you said something. I don't know what some of the staff I came about. Fifteen yards ten jahre twenty down the mountain when you're when you're dead serious about something you walk off guy throws me the ball here and I just never stop and go back. Go back to the mound but you're going to growl. A little bit was <hes> was what happened with that movie unbelievable. I mean the most amazing thing about that. Is that nobody in charge of that movie movie thought hey is it a good idea to have costumes for two hundred pitches a day for eighteen straight days. How does Brill baseball work like? Where was the baseball Cy Kinda I? I knew how baseball worked I just kind of looked at argues it was like on are you guys getting world class athletes to come to Texas and it's like it is what it is but <hes> it just what it was it just what it was and I never had a a better time and and I in fact I had this one crazy moment in that game <hes> where the cameras like you asked how many extras where we moved them around xers out there they were outrageous. They had gambling going on at prostitution going on because they were there all night long they the you know the they use cardboard cutouts to make the crowd look bigger. They cut holes down where they're deal was unable to be there on her deal. Be Out you know and you know no one's really knowledge saw but the I that's what they were doing chase. They were out of control there where people that basically said hey do you wanna make a hundred and fifty bucks and on anybody in the street near Yeah and they were the ones that are in the stand and I had been really good to them really good in these people. I was throwing balls in there constantly. I funded them up. I throw it up into the upper deck to them. I was doing all this stuff. I was a little bit cranky to and and other people were stiffen them but I for eighteen days I kept those people happy I really did and now for whatever reason <hes> in the simulated game I think it was that night might not have I think it was a guy hits a a big pop fly down the third base line between the dugout and the line line and I start to move on it because I just you just move on a ball and big leagues. They let the third baseman get it. They let the catcher get it. I kinda went this way and <hes> none of those guys go after it and now I'm kind of in in this middle ground so I just kinda run over a little farther about ten feet from the dugout and all the crowd happened to be right there they weren't over here. They went over here. They were they were right there. I catch the ball in it's like you know I get a little the tennis club because I catch it shouldn't it's not going to ever be in the film because <hes> was in. Its wasn't part of that guy that batters thing so I start walking back and as I walked back somebody in the crowd says you know you know and and there was something in me they they yell the Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah and it was like I was almost stepping over the line like Burt Lancaster go back and pitch and I stopped I turn around and I walked right back to are these five thousand people who are all kind of what's going on because he heard the guy say that non right at the base of the dugout and I go I said something like <hes> I said you know and everybody was like really quiet and then it was kind of like a bummer to the whole thing eighteen days and I never okay now turn to go back to the mound and they all turned on me really bad now. I'm like you know if this was a Coliseum as Oh my God Ah Billy Chapel ha-kyu fucking trap on I'm thinking I'm walking back and I go. Why did I even go over there? What the Hell I eighteen days just like Wash Death Ballet Chapel but I you know that whole thing going on on and I'm thinking wow so I get back on the mound? Look over there. I thought it same thing happens. Big Pop fly of Major League pop fly right over in that same place. I take off running again there. I'm not even thinking now the third Baseman catcher they don't move either again now. I'm in the middle ground. I really can't back out the ball's coming down there. Fuck you bill at job and I'm looking and I'm thinking Oh my God. I'm right here in front of these people again and I go catch up behind your back and I think I can't do that. I haven't done that since his high school. Just catch up on that. They're going to be miserable. I put my hand behind my back and the ball within it went in to the glove. I kid you not ten feet from this crowd right at the thing. I don't even know why did 'cause my chances are being humiliated way greater than catching it. I'm just telling you but it was that it was that ten seconds it was that talked in college. It was at thing you got a job at Bull Durham. Get up. There and it's like you know whatever where I go just do it and I want like that and went in the oxygen went out. No one said a thing I catch the ball. I just look at them. Look at that guy I turn around. I walked back and all the crowd turned on him. Go Fuck you pillage you donate calling him these vulgar vulgar just turn on this guy who was like this and I'm walking back in it could've gone just is unbelievable. It was a weird moment home and it was more like what are you care. Stick your glove out and went in and then they're filming the movie and sequence basically and you're actually dying on the mound like Billy Chapel and they vince go is going here is billy chapel. He can barely throw it and they're cutting to you and you look like you're dying on the mound because you actually are bill Vince Gully when I went to see him do that. He's amazing in that movie. Let me tell you kind of his best performance ever other than like backstory hitter I wouldn't saw him come narrate and he narrated rated the the last inning because it wasn't you know they didn't do it at that point and he was down there in Santa Monica and I went in with the director and the director is like okay. We're GONNA want you to do kind of this and it's kind of like they're taking a look at this. You know you know take a you know this is this is how long hitting it let me see it so the kind of showed it to him. It was like probably a seven minute sequence or whatever and then goes okay well. Let's just let's just run it now. Billy Chapel forty years and he's add living. I'm telling you he you know Willie. Live will go on his life or the life itself and he said don't tell anybody that forty doesn't hit. He's like going there right. He gets he gets to the end and he looks at the direction goes. You know how was that and and we're like like how is an director I remember saying Rabi looked and he goes that was unbelievable and he goes well. You want to do another one and and Bingos what and he goes well. Maybe you just want to do another one and it was a fair request but then then is like an essay is like Whoa what and he goes well. Maybe we'll just get something different and and Bingos of course and he did it again and there was these other things that came up and <hes> I met him two times you know I I met him earlier. In my career before I even maybe had one credit. It was at lakeside at the golf course and there was a bunch of men out there and like I didn't really play golf and I maybe once a year with the father in law and he was in that thing. You're not GonNa let me be late for Kimmel or you know what time they Kim cool what time I don't know I don't care about Jimmy Thirty I care about this is so much more fun so anyway. I'm out there playing golf and he's in this for some. Maybe I made it odd but no one saying anything anything right. I mean they're all playing. I'm just struggling doing the best I can but the third hole. I'm just being really quiet. I've known him my whole life and white grew up with them. Yeah and he looks over at me. Goes sure your PUTT Kevi. Put a wire on my name your cut covey. That's never happened before. I'm guessing my dad okay sure Putt Kevi and I went like he just made me feel so great and then I wanted let him to do this and then he asked me to speak at his <hes> retirement which you've just said Yes to immediately you know I said I said No. No No. I don't know if you ever saw as dodger stadium yeah. Did you see it. I did you weren't in it. No I did vote for about ten minutes turned that request down. You don't if you have your shit together. You don't think there's fifty other people that should be talking here. I mean it was going to be you like three. People is going to be Colfax me and Gibson and I said I said there's got to be the hall of fame. You're asking me I'm telling you I've said No. I was turning it down. I said no I said I know there's you know and they came back with a will you be the M._c. and I said No. I said if you want great M._C.. Get cost us. I don't do that either and they came back and said don't then really want you to do it and <hes> and I said well in a said we're looking at you. Just get up there and you'll to do two minutes and I said I said I'm not your guy. I make three hour movies. I said I'm not looking at talk long but if you want me to talk about Vin scully I'll talk till I'm done because I'm GonNa talk for. Everybody and they went like Steve Young. No no Mike Young yeah worked for the dodgers. That guy was great to me. He said you do whatever you want him. You do whatever you want and I said really and he goes yeah whatever you want and so I was able to talk about him and but those were my three times of really knowing him. Let's take a break to talk about W._V._U.. It's an online university. It's changing lives by changing higher higher education. It's an innovative competency based learning learning huddle can't speak was designed specifically to fit in the labs of busy adults W is nonprofit and surprisingly affordable offering bachelor's and master's degrees Zim Business I._T.. Teaching and nursing move through the material you already now spend the time you save learning what you don't which means the faster you demonstrate which no the faster you finish. It's also about half the cost of most other online universities seeking graduate graduated with far less debt or none at all the B._G.. Graduates work in positions of responsibility for leading companies like Microsoft Amazon even the government get your six five dollar application fee waived that W._g.. Dot E._D._U. Slash B. S. that is W._G._N.. Dot E._d._U. Slash bs with the best thing. I've seen you do in that front with the Whitney. Houston thing was incredible. That was an interesting moment to you know that was a that was I've had some interesting moments moments. You know that was <hes> you know it was interesting. It seemed like I had no idea that you guys were close like that. What we weren't close like or like that you had a connection we had a real connection we had a real connection action and it was it it kind of started with the Baptist Church and it started with me seen how how nervous she was entire those stories about her makeup and having changed between the time I say you're going to be okay and then she changed her makeup shakeup and just looked in the exact opposite way that she would have wanted to look so I was able to come at that from that perspective? You know that's an interesting movie. It's aged. It's a very eight ninety s movie. It has one of the great endings of all time and I don't know it's it's just different. I don't even know what the two thousand nineteen equivalent would be who the actors would be but it feels. It feels like a belongs you know orange chasms for script really yeah. He was the first one he sold Hollywood and it sat on the shelf for sixteen years and I saw this movie for you in roll the dice with Whitney and hopes she can act and she was getting it. I felt I felt that she wouldn't be tasked taxed folks too much on meaning. She had to be good but it wasn't all writing on her. I you like it'd be like taking an athlete and putting them in the wrong spot where they can't succeed yet. You just go you you ask too much on the other hand in in this way that worked if we watched their close enough she would be great but if we would have tipped the scale and added some more scenes we she wouldn't have been great right so it was you had to like you have to look at everything. Thank and see how it fits. It's like it just it just have to make you have to have to win with a team you either create or have yeah and you got to you have to look at the reality of that. We didn't talk about field of dreams since which just had its thirtieth anniversary field of dreams thirtieth anniversary was this year. We have a podcast that people I called the Rewatch ables where we broke it down. That's funny <hes> The rewatch of well that's like the ultimate rewards that has certain parts of that movie or like Oh. He's going to get James. Earl Jones admit I'm GonNa Watch these next twenty minutes and it has all these but it's not a gun. It's funny to say such a movie. What's interesting about it? Is it belongs to this era. Uh when we still believed everything good with baseball and then over the next era with <hes> you know you hit the late nineties they had the strike the lockout <hes> then think about that and then you have the steroid right era. I never thought about that way and then it's like 'cause James. Earl Jones has said speech about baseball as a part of US mocks the time and he does the whole thing that it's good and could always be good yeah and it's so you watch that down that prisoners like I remember when we felt this way so adorable yeah but that movie hodges these these names Yeah Mickey Mantle never thought of him as like anything other than just like the handsome center fielder on the ax you know <hes> i Ron Shelton. <hes> <hes> was an airport and he's in a saw Mickey Mantle and <hes> he told me this story F. Forget who told me the story but she's Mickey Man and he goes he he goes Ron. Did you go up to him because no no. I mean that's sports guy. No I don't do that. The old school is just what it is. No I don't who could love Mickey Mantle anymore than somebody like Ron but no no no because he was on Letterman last night and I think that's the story went. I said what are you. What are you talking about because he's on Letterman and could be getting us all wrong but there but this is what you know we're on told me he says and he was going off about the movie bull Durham and and he said something like Letterman was trying to well? No it's funny and he goes no. It's sad 'cause no. It's fun day was yeah and finally then Dave. I guess didn't try Turnham. It goes well. What do you mean because he had a lot of deference to athletes and it really did he? I mean he he didn't suffer fools but he also he also wouldn't try to make Mickey feel weird yeah and <hes> and he goes no the house sad and what do you mean. He goes that guy could really hit and he goes he goes. There's a lot of players that never made it into the National League we they just sat behind guys. The organizations just kept him and his era and his Erin and I and I know part of the reason that that that Ron modeled crash Davis was was a player that <hes> set behind Brooks Robinson and <hes> <hes> won the triple crown in the minor leagues like five years all right and so and they weren't going to give him up that guy now you know is like you know they're did you. Did you think fielder James is going to work. Yes I mean it was said vicious but not massively yeah. It was ambitious in for a little move ambitious for one reason it was like I I I had a real short intake breath when I said we have a catch. I had to remember that moment forever ever because that's how I make decisions about. I'm going to move and I go yeah if we can get to that moment and take that moment where the hair on the back of your neck stands up and where you you you begin to weep and you don't even know why that means. We're going to have to do all these scenes that are almost dopey yeah correctly. They're dopey but we didn't try to wink at it. That was it was real. It was that way and yes and that's what made that movie dangerous hard because it always bordered on dopey to begin with yeah. He's like a borderline lunatic and and then and then and then that's your big ending that's beginning. Let's have a catch and <hes> Phil Robinson Robinson. You know I get so much credit for this but Phil Robinson is a guy who wrote that adapted. I would never would have done that movie based on a pitch. I did it based on the script and I knew the script had gold us on a I didn't know obviously that it would become part of the vocabulary. I didn't know that thirty years later it would it would find its way into the hearts of people the way it did but it found its way into my heart and that's why challenged ray stark on revenge said I'm going to do this movie. In the corn. You know we had like an eight eight-minute argument and when we did the REWATCH pod about why they didn't carry the choking little girl onto the baseball diamond so burt Lancaster didn't have to become burt Lancaster again. Why didn't so she's choking moonlight? Graham has to decide whether he wants yeah. You need that line we settle down but I was just carried around the field then you know it's a good point you just you know and listen movies are filled with those moments and only the best of them. You know you're doing it honorably really when you're laughing at it but especially if you see thirty springs in no time at Ray Ray you know he struggled you had a couple of scenes with him. He struggled in an iconic scene and he was struggling that last night he says there's enough magic up there for free round third. Wrap your arms around yeah thanks. He was struggling at night stirling because he's older. Whatever it was again get the lines he was struggling and he was getting embarrassed and it was at night it was and and it didn't look like he was Gonna get it and he any any went over and he kind of whispered that he was kind of hoping that I would leave the set I think he was embarrassed? Oh and she said No. I said this is is almost perfect. We've got a we've got perfect. I said I'm staying right here. This is fantastic and the director hung in there and Bert finally did it man. This guy really talked with his hands. It's yeah some wrapped in a lot of actors. I said he was very history on it. Yeah he would use his hands and he and he hit it and I knew it was. I was GONNA go anywhere so NAM right here. We're going to get through that you know so tell me Mr Consol is enough magic in the air. One of the things in the research was you had like ten minutes to film the final scene with the way the light was and all the cars and the guy you. You're throwing your dad and he's he's got some glove from like nineteen ten. GotTa catch everything in this car. He's kind of saying that Tim Robbins Bane of things if didn't have a great three great throwing motion he was a catch and bring it down and re Ed incredibly <hes> and carved out at great career over that movie he I read his book. He wrote a book yeah <hes> about Dwyer Brown and I had no idea how the hardships but he has he has traveled the country the last twenty years thirty years talking and he's and he deserves every bit of it because he's such a humble guy but he's that career that that moment for him he has made the most of it and not in a not in a exploitive Loyd of way. It's just he's had heart up. Yeah and I'm so glad it was him now. You know that was another one of my nitpicks after seeing the movie eight hundred times how does Rais not realize sooner his dad's the catcher what's at how does he not realized sooner that his dad's a catcher had this. I know this is the whole point of this interview five years later. They're playing good five back with my ear or he can't. He hasn't realized they then real. I thought more about this and you have Kevin and it's clear this is the point of the podcast. You know what what what is what is what is what is <hes> <hes> <hes> <hes> James Joyce saying you're seeing in an army of therapist. Aren't you yeah Oh no question as to you. You've broken this down so beautifully look for thirty years. You know listen. I got flack about Leo Tanabe hitting left handed. I remember that it was like and I you know who I had out there as they had out there for <hes> the consultant the baseball consultant raw dato. Yeah rod was out there and Hey Tiger you probably met him. If that's that's he called everybody the tiger and you know he was like Oh man Kevi me and you are both going to get killed for this him hit and right handed. I said I got it. I got it and I got it but you know what they would do. Just flip the the beer the mayor Erin. You'd never know do some C._G._I.. Thing or surprise you drilling me on that one now because that's already been people know that would have beat me up on that now that people know that I love I love the we had to give. I love the why not just carry the child out because in a real in a real movie you would do that but in this thing we needed and newsroom needling across Oh my God you said don't do it and it's like Oh my God. You can't go back on my God. We didn't talk about Tin Cup. So you go you you do dances. You do a whole bunch of movies in the nineties yeah and then you get sucked back. You gotta leave since so we gotta do we gotta concentrate just on sports movies. No No Cup was the same thing <hes> Cup was. <hes> you know I just I just come out of waterworld. Just come out of a divorce and I was I was pretty beat up and I said no to ten cup and even though I need more from the divorce from waterworld I love it was hard. It was really one hundred fifty days shoot fifty seven days shoot. It was a lot and <hes> and I I couldn't <hes> I just I loved it but I go. I got a I. I said I'm I'm. I'm just not GonNa go onto another movie. This is one of this is one of the Times where an agent really went and not even my own agent when out on a limb and call me <hes>. There's a woman over at C.. H. Says Kevin I feel like this is a move. You actually need to do yeah me emotionally. Get with your friend Ron. Who protect you who will be with you? Get with him. I don't want I don't want to see anybody else. Play the sky and <hes> she was right she there was some extenuating circumstances she she she understood what I said. She came at me like a really soft backboard and I was able to wrap my arms arms around going off and do that movie and I'll be forever thankful. <hes> you stand by the thirteen to end the movie was thirteen which at what what did he would have on the last hole through a twelve. I always thought that should be our poster greatest twelve in history mystery greatest twelve. It's funny. I didn't like it. The first time I saw that it ended with the twelve. 'cause I just assumed who's going to win. We're conditioned the Heroes GonNa Win The sports movie but now I'm glad to put out the way it did. The twelve was better glad you turn around on that. You have to go. We just have to come back another time. This was fun though right so many other things we could talk about the <hes>. Is this your first podcast. Have you done before I did. One one others do my this is bullshit bullshit. No No. It's <hes> got him a friend of mine well this Jimmy Kimmel's bed funny <hes> they did the man Corolla the that's right. I wasn't that about that yeah that amount to the house and I wasn't. I was mad so you guys like cars like well. He likes cars when I told him I had the car. I don't know cars again though I wanted that car yeah crawl on the other hand goes and he that guy is special I really I really the funniest person I've ever met. I had them up to the house and he's like he's such a solid dude. Yeah <hes> all right so you have to come back. This is great. I'm glad we finally did this. We at least did the sportsman. We didn't talk about draft day but we'll do that next time because now now the browns of basically taking draft day and they made it the real movies I mean it's unbelievable. They went and got Baker Mayfield. They turned it around and it's like you're the G._M.. Yeah I got <hes> man's Hell Yeah. That was the bad version correct. That's what draft avoided right. That's what he played in. Obviously didn't watch draft so the <HES> got Baker but listen I will do thank you all right. This is great. Thank you very much Kevin Costner all right. Thanks so much Kevin Costner thanks to Ziprecruiter of good good ziprecruiter dot com slash B. S.. Thanks to the Diamond Casino and resort now open in the heart of Los Santos A one-stop destination for quality entertainment and high and living in in grand theft auto online purchase pass to become V._i._p.. Member and gain access to action packed cooperative missions experienced luxury at the diamond casino resort. The latest free update two grand theft auto online access is free with every copy of grand theft auto five available now rockstar games dot com and thanks the W._g.. You and online university that's changing lives by changing higher education. Their competency based learning model was designed specifically to fit in the lives a busy adults and it's about half the cost of other online universities. They have for Bachelors and Masters degrees in Business I._T.. Teaching nursing in graduates have gone on to work for leading companies like Microsoft and Amazon. Get your sixty five dollars application fee waived at W. G. U. Dot E._D._U.. Slash BS don't forget about to Rewatch ables topgun reservoir dogs both out there. I'm going to be back on this podcast next week. Hopefully more sports stuff will happen until.