To the Extreme | The Masked Man Show
Hey Kelly into the ring a podcast network. It's the season finale of big little lies on Sunday so make sure to check out our final episode of our live after show with the ringers Amanda Dobbins and E._S._p._N.'s Meena crimes you can tune in on twitter too big little live live right after the episode ends also this week's twenty nine thousand nine open championship marks the final major championship of the golf season to check out fairway role in where Joe House is joined by a castle printer and Gulf world personalities for everything. You need to know heading into the weekend you can find new episodes on apple spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. What's going on your brownies? It's pitch Mr Perfect Schuyler asked him this stretcher. Gross battle sees a one champion. Mike King a sad stop silverlake hearthrob stray Kirby mic Monday to see reality superstar the login boss Sasha banks w superstar Braun strowman coming on his skin that the more Zach Lender uh-huh Damn Black Aka goof Har Hashem Tom A._J.. Sows the phenomenal one if you will and you're listening you're listening to this. You're listening to you. I listened to him. Russsian listening listenable mash demanding mass and show US match Matthew Adventure masked man surest mass man welcome to the math man show. I'm your host David Shoemaker join me on the mass blind then other in Kenny. Here's how you Doing Kenny O.. I am rate David. How are you I think I can speak for most wrestling fans? When I say I am overwhelmed and overjoyed I said overabundance of pro wrestling content also a little bit overtired <hes> from watching it all at great length <hes> apologies to all my listeners for their not being an episode last week? I had a surprise trip ahead ahead a lot of things going on at the moment I was about to record something happened outside of the wrestling world. I know I know nobody cares who's listening to this but <hes> Russell Westbrook got traded to the to the <hes> Houston Rockets and as the director of the Ringer Dot Com. I suddenly had to swing an action. We did record pieces of an episode but the episode was sort of lost to history so maybe maybe that will resurface someday because there are some some some little tiny anything that I I like the whole lot anyway. Burn the down and a universal lot fire. Someday we can only hope and that's Jim is Jim is like pulling on a lighter right now jim. How're you doing good thank you how are you? I know you watched a lot of wrestling wrestling this week because <hes> somebody you or somebody nobody else has the log into my W._b.. Network account and there was a lot of half watched wrestling that suddenly was in my in my queue. That's me half watch wrestling gym. That's that's going to be your new. Here's what I want to talk about this week. We've had a lot of wrestling. We had an evolved special event. We had <hes> A._W._S.. Fight for the fallen <hes> the last of their kind of pre primetime <hes> big events. I don't mean I guess I don't even know I don't mean primetime like launch their show. I mean like this is the last year of warm up to their having before I think we have to start considering them full-fledged and everything else and then we add W._w._e.. Extreme rules which was a huge event <hes> sort of that's they're they're getting ready. They're warm-up show for a summer slam <hes> and it ended up setting the stage for a lot of what is going to come in Toronto in the month of August for them. <hes> so basically I want to talk about all of these different things raw smackdown eighty w even a little little bit of evolves we can even talk about the G. One although I don't know how much of that you've been watching <hes> it's what I've seen has been fantastic. Yeah I mean I don't sit and watch every second of every match because that's craziness but I I I watched the show. Yes I think that I mean this is not a new or earth changing idea but it is really really cool to see how you can tell stories in wrestling matches and in a tournament setting and have them those stories be somehow more compelling than you know what we normally think of in W._W._e.. Terms as stories you know the the outside of the ring silliness that goes on did make these matches happens. Sometimes the matches just happened and the matches of the stories <hes> but I do want to start with the biggest news of the week and that is we have a new Oh w._w._e.. Universal champion I heard of him. You might be familiar with this guy. You might have actually seen him not too long ago. Holding that Universal Championship Belt Brock Listener is back folks. He cashed in his money in the bank briefcase <hes> and and in came <hes> entered the ring after the Seth Ron's and becky lynch verses <hes> Barron Corbin Lacey Evans Mixed tag team match and Demolish Death Ron's pinned him one the belt <hes> I wrote about it this week. I was so moved <hes> that I thought it just had something had to be written. It brought the brought my fingers back to the keyboard. It's kind of amazing to me. You tell me what you think any. I mean my my first reaction. was you know brock listener winning. The title is never surprising but it did feel like a an answer in search of a question right like is the what what what should we learn. What what should we have learned from brock listener winning? Is it that he he might be the solution Sobat ratings is it that the Seth Ron experiment has been deemed a failure is it that they just WanNa have Brooklyn or holding the belt at Summer Slam is at you know some portion of all of the above what what was your initial gut reaction when that happened last I read her column which by the way I personally would have had landed beast infection but that's just me I I enjoyed all of your all of your putting <hes> of course throughout the article I would say the latter notion so you just mentioned rings true with that it might just be best to have him having the bill at Summer Slam and not think too deeply into it <hes> I really with ambivalent about it to to be perfectly honest. I kind of I wasn't you know outraged. I wasn't shocked. I wasn't moved too much periods. I just sort of accepted it on its face because like you said it's never surprising when brock listener becomes comes the main event so I i I really hesitate to read too much into what people are thinking. In terms of whether the <hes> Seth rollins can be the guy or we're not <hes> I I mean I hate to be sort of Boyd on this issue. I just I'm just waiting and seeing I. I think that's fair and I don't think I think that we have been cast into avoid and that's you know that's describes where we all are. I mean listen one thing that we know now that I didn't know when I wrote the piece was that South Ron's will be the challenger for the title at Summer Slam <hes> and one of the ideas I floated was I mean this sounds sort of reductive but like maybe they're just going to run it back. Maybe they think that like maybe it's sort of a do over for rollins. Maybe it's a just a an internal. <hes> you know truism that like you want your you want the baby face to be working underdog at the big show. You know I mean I. There's a lot of I mean none of that is like the right answer but all those early but there's like potential answers <hes> but yeah I think that listen. It's a big it's GonNa pop is going to get people's attention when anybody cashes in the briefcase. <hes> it's a and it's going to get a lot of you know a lot casual attention <hes> I think when brock listener is on screeners you know is looming and I think that probably it is doing it this way having him cash in the belt I mean cash in the briefcase win. The belt generates rates more hype than just a than if they just giving someone else the briefcase done the listener versus Ron's rematch summer slam come to be out of the luxury of thinking you know insular -Ly have to think about what is going to create the most headlines what is going to create news outside of just the world of wrestling commentary <hes> especially now that they're going to be kind of building anticipation for not just one of their biggest pay per views of the year but their last cornerstone paper view of the year before eighty w launches in earnest <hes> so yeah I think he might be hitting on something there that it really might just be a matter of <hes> you know of making the news yeah I think I think that one thing that brock is always had rock has a lot of things going for him. He has like I mentioned before the kind of mainstream appeal the crossover appeal he has as we've learned from various sources says of late he has and this is maybe a news but it's been confirmed that Vince McMahon has a has a specific fascination with him for whatever reason that he just kind of wants to own him and put him out there as his Andre the giant basically he this is this is the supernatural force that is property of you know Vincent K Mcmahon and you put those positions so there's that's part of it <hes> and then at yeah and then he all he is proven incredibly <hes>. I don't adept is the right word because I don't know how much of it is Brooklyn doing but he but he would he. He is one of the best recurring surprises that W._W._e.. Has Available Rate I mean when he pinned the undertaker. That was the biggest crossover moment they'd had a long time. You know in every time he every time he pops up articles. Get written. It seems like and this is a good you know. I'm sure there's a lot of people out there gonNA waiting for something to write about him now. <hes> so yeah I mean I. I'm not sure that it's the biggest moment omen W._w.. History especially now that we know sets is going to be fighting at Summer Slam <hes> but you know it was a it was it was a big moment on <hes> and you know a funk a very functional surprise on Sunday night and Seth rollins. This has made very clear in his actions and his words <hes> offline and online on screen that he's really the new team player. I mean in some senses he's comparable to Sinoe or even a MS in that way. He's he's. He's going to do what's best. Ask for the company and if that means <hes> you know that brock is what people are talking about the Monday morning after extreme rules as long as he then gets his you know his rematch at summer slamming. He's in the main event for one of the four biggest shows of the year. You know that's aw that's possibly the <hes> the bargains willing to strike yeah well. That's not the only a couple of things one that that sort of was the icing on the cake for better or worse because I mean honestly that got a lot of mixed reactions especially within the diehard Internet wrestling community fan base and people. I don't think we're particularly excited to see brought back with the belt. <hes> we are all sort of exhausted by the Brook Championship by the time it was over but for better worse that was the icing on the cake of what otherwise we'd be talking about is a pretty great w we pay per view. I mean that that probably would have been the lead story the other week to just like look at all these big things all these good matches. There wasn't a standout like five star classic <hes> but there's a lot of good stuff that I was but like every every time every everytime match ended I sort of already forgotten that two matches ago I was like jotting down notes about how good the match was yeah the very deep bench right now when people when the guys are all healthy and it might have been a mistake for Awa to be so audacious has to schedule this not real pay per view event virtually side by side with <hes> in event. That's become incre- of increasingly the <hes> of increasing importance scheduling wise to W._W._e.. Because it was pretty striking the contract was pretty striking. Look you know eight WS talent looked <hes> or roster felt comparatively narrative of thin and their <hes> creative options had sort of exhausted themselves much quicker in <hes> in the course of planning by full and I think that would w._W._e.. Had and its arsenal so actually they made it might have been W._W._f.. Service in that in that sense the contrast and yeah I mean look at anytime ricochet and A._J.. Style of Alastair Black Zero and guys like that are going at it <hes> they have to continue to find ways to make those kind of matchups happen and a and without being redundant and that's their challenge there was a big contrast and we're going to talk about a w in just a bit but I wanna run through. Make sure we get to everything in a run through the extreme rules card what we're GONNA touch on. We're all these things are headed and kind of what I'm most interested this week since we're are you on the downhill slope towards W._W._e.. Summer Slam. Everybody's really excited about going to Toronto by the way everybody that I talked to. I don't think I'LL BE GOING TO TORONTO. I will never go be going to Toronto probably because you're a criminal and they don't let you cross the border fats correct but but we have that we like you said W.. Fight for the fall in the last of their sort of non big show shows <hes> and now we're setting the store setting the table for the T._N._t.. Show the weekly show and in in all out there next gigantic pay per view or I guess it's a pay per view spectacular <hes> so yeah. There's a there's a lot of jockeying for position going on right now and I just kind of wanted to break it all down and see who's in position who's in a better position now. <hes> as we record this on Wednesday afternoon then they were a week ago a month ago <hes> who's GonNa who who who's GonNa be who's kind of rounding the corner earn towards you know this next big the big wrestling fall that we have ahead of us with a lot of steam <hes> starting with extreme rules one of the big surprise tonight actually came in the very beginning of the night before a lot of people were watching when Shuki Nakimora beat Fin Ballard for the icy championship word came out shortly afterwards Ballard asked for some time off it always seems very ominous when you see that headline but it seems like he just kind of want to take a month or two off between between Summer Slam and survivor survivor series or something just to recharge his batteries <hes>. I don't know what do what do you what do you think about the Nakimora era vic- title. I think it's overdue Nakimora becomes a you know multi time multi title. Thank you know presence W._W._e.. So at least if and when his time ends you know we can look look back and say <hes> it. You know it was not for not I didn't have to be perfectly honest. You know I'm at this point become customary Mary for me to not necessarily tune in in real time to the to the kickoff show. Maybe this is a way of just you know <hes> holding US further captive for future pay per view that we are compelled to watch every kickoff show <hes> as far as Ballard taking time off that makes sense because I was thinking if you're going to enter into something in earnest with Bray Wyatt now but <hes> some of that didn't yeah so he was Patsy for a lame duck for that we got I mean. I think that we're GONNA see Mike. If I had to guess I would say it say we're GONNA have Nakimora <hes> you know defending the belt going forward obviously and then Baylor is going to be is going to be the punching bag for Bray Wyatt <hes> for this first month and maybe we'll see see you know return survivor series time to have a little demon versus Bray Wyatt showdown or something to that effect yeah. That's that's very possible disappear into smoke. After this week I mean or he might just pull out that would mean for all we know because the demon <hes> you know is is a little bit <hes> less mystical after his last appearance than than he was before so maybe the demon will pop up. I mean we'll just go and wrestle at summer slamming and he'll get he'll. He'll he'll take his first L.. As the demon obviously <hes> right there's a lot of opportunities there <hes> but but now's a good time as any talk about it <hes> Bray Wyatt's back baby Bray Wyatt in full like a you know mid to mid-twenties tens joker garb with his skin pulled across his face and leather jackets striped pants green looking dreadlocks well I mean it was awesome to see him. It was a great appearance and it was cool to see him back back. He looks like he's in great shape. I feel like I say this every time. Somebody pops up. What was your what was your takeaway from Monday nights? <hes> I mean yeah Monday nights return of Bray Wyatt my biggest takeaway was that he's in great shape what she's looked in great shape persons previewing coming back <hes> <hes> but that's that goes a long way toward reintroducing somebody now otherwise I don't know from the waist down. He looked like a member of Gogol Bordello from the waist up you know from the waist up. He had some like yeah kind of aw hot topic Halloween blow out kind of thing happening I so that's me a jaded adulthood like in separate you know reality non reality and horror from from dress up but I wouldn't was not willing to let my son watch it so obviously going in some kind of that's I mean that's too dark for your son well. That's a whole narrative into unto itself but really the last few weeks have been other to darker to <hes> <hes> profane or or or or you know too provocative for me to feel like I can now let my son continue to watch it so they're clearly moving away post this heyman announcement if he's not fearing things yet away from the P._G.. The era that's a whole other thing but boy maybe the biggest test of that and <hes> it'd be interesting to see if they throw their <hes> their lot in with <hes> with whatever his success might be in appealing to to <hes> more mature audience yeah. I think that's true. It's it is an interesting test case but there's always been the you know attention in all walks of life about you know our American children seem to be watching Gore movies at the age of four and but you know they can't see a bare chest until other eighteen or whatever so there I mean I guess all that is to say that there's a lot of there's a lot of <hes> storytelling devices that Paul Heyman and W in the attitude era employed that that will probably be more problematic than just bray white being frightening <hes> on a broader utter scale but yes oh yeah it would just give him nightmares. I think that's right. I don't think it'll be it'll be interesting. <hes> you know the whole thing to see where they go. Listen Bray Wyatt for years has been he's not a failure is not the right word for it but he's he's sort of been the litmus test for like the the hell. W._W._e.'s creative is going you know when when Bray wide is really clicking it seems like things go okay overall. You know say what you will about the John Cena era writ large but like their inability ability to make him work over the past several years I mean injuries notwithstanding has kind of become a symbol for you know they're created this function and a lot of ways <hes> and now he's back. He's got a whole new reboot when he's got the you know the weight of the company behind him. This feels like a must win situation almost but not to make it sound so dire. I think he's GonNa get all the opportunity in the world but I think that he's you know this is. This is a big moment for him but for the company overall and I don't think this needs to be about championships. I think that's a big that's been been one of the problems with braves when it felt like it was all or nothing if he doesn't become champion soon than he's a failure it was missed construing <hes> What what made him potentially so special to now this is just about him you know just absolutely <hes> menacing and stalking and harassing <hes> competition for for months <hes> you know I really I don't I'm not I don't even think title aspiration should enter into the picture because that instantly makes him sort of more mortal which was one of the issues in the first place when he was supposed to be this <hes> omniscient. You know Boogeyman yeah I almost. I wrote a piece into by that I mean I started writing the lead for a piece <hes> a couple of weeks ago actually about how the quest the and this is more of a fan side thing than W._w._e.. Side things no one has ever said it out loud but the quest to find find the next undertaker has actually become an become one of the great boondoggles in pro wrestling history. <hes> and I think that that is hampered Bray Wyatt more than anything else I mean it's one thing to be like yeah. He slides into that role in a couple of fronts but like what made the undertaker taker undertaker was much more than being spooky. You know we're having supernatural abilities or <hes> even being a wrestlemainia mainstay. It was just it was it was a level of charisma and longevity in institutional. <hes> just couldn't control of the of the entire institution of W._W._f.. W._W._e. that that <hes> that it took a long time from become the undertaker you don't get to be assigned the role of the undertaker like you can be assigned the role of scrappy underdog <hes> but but it's affected him and I think you know hopefully it doesn't affect <hes> ouster black who will talk about soon and you know I mean there was a part of me that was watching on Sunday and I was just like are we just been missing this altogether and the the next undertaker as painful as hard as it's going to be some people here is the next undertaker the guy that was tag teaming tagging with him on Sunday. I mean as the next undertaker just Roman reigns. Is he going to be the guy holding down wrestlemanias for the next decade well in in in that comparison you could compare Roman reigns to other people not just the undertaker because he'll be undertake. It's all about those intangibles and the aura so if you're talking strictly about the person who's been holding down the main events of mania you could you could ben again. You know be comparing Roman reigns to John Cena or whoever <hes> I see your point I see your point. It's I think super literal and saying the next is he the next undertaker character <hes> but I liked what you were tr I liked when the point you were making about them trying to find the next undertaker in terms of that <hes> that character that just is <hes> unknowable until he's utterly knowable but nothing has long vaccinating yeah I mean listen for wrestling as a long rich history of Gimmick Swiping of you know all kinds of just pseudo replacements for different for different performers guide territorial alarium moves down the road. You can just find guy that sorta like him to take his spot. If you really you know if he was doing well and you wanted to keep that going <hes> ric flair I mean everybody remembers nature. Boy Buddy Lendl's being fake ric flair but ric flair ripped his style style from a lot of people that came a forum not least nature boy buddy Rogers and <hes> you know there's it's okay to it's it's wrestling has there's a lot of guys who were the next fill in the blank and wrestling that have been successful but this is a different era and this is a whole different search but anyway going back to the extreme rules. Oh I did want to say one thing about Nakimora before we get all the way off of it which is a lot of people were wondering why he resigned but w w when he was a free agent and I think the answer that sort of became conventional wisdom is he just sort of liked his quality of Life Breath and he likes surfing and he likes you know whatever he he's. He's you know being being the Michael Jordan of pro wrestling is not necessarily the number one priority for him I think but I also think that there's something really I mean Ah W._W._e.. Argument against it is that he'd been wasted by W._B.. For All this time but I think especially in the W era there's going to be some people like the revival to get these giant pushes to convince him to stay but there's going to be even more people that only get pushes when they resign you know and because you have to have the certainty that they're going to be around and and maybe we're seeing a little bit of that that kind of reward system with Nakimora getting the belt so what you're saying w just plays a game of chicken with personnel. I think that that's possible. We have a lot of matches to get through here so I'm just going to start tearing through these things and I don't want to talk about everything. Do you WanNa talk about Roman reigns and I just mentioned it and Shane and the undertaker versus Shane McMahon drew McIntyre. I thought this was a really fun match. I thought that undertaker looked great and especially considering the last time we saw him. <hes> and Roman reigns look good shaming man and good and drew McIntyre putting the great category as well. I think that if we end up with the undertaker drew McIntyre showdown at summer slammer it <hes> Wrestlemainia can you even I think that I mean I I was buying into drew McIntyre over the course of that match. I I will not disagree about basically everything you just said but we know how I feel about a certain combatant in that particular alert match and then Yeah Yeah and you can imagine my disappointment when he inserted himself immediately and things again you know at the outset of smackdown whatever <hes> yes I think that match serve a higher purpose which was <hes>. Let's you talked before about essentially <hes> rolling things back with violence. Come resetting or what have you. I think there might have been almost a reset or redoing of the moment between these two a few mess wrestlemanias ago. Where now is the crowd? The fans were ready for undertake a pass that torch and they did it with a little subtle gesture this time it wasn't as grandiose as him. Leaving is <hes> you know his wardrobe in the center of the ring like the melted wicked witch of the West was <hes> you know it was the traditional little little done good pat on the chest and some we were ready for it and now that's closure sometimes the pound the chest is more is more significant than than going out than than lying down for somebody right because <hes> even though we all know that wins and losses don't really matter in the real world I mean as as wrestling relates to reality <hes> we still have to deal with the pain of watching the undertaker lose and that rubs off negatively on his opponent in this case Roman reigns ends at Wrestlemania match sometimes just having a little the the old guy young guy tag team gets a lot of that work done without the ill will bingo you mentioned shaming man you mentioned his his opening the show on on Tuesday. I will say this. The first time I ever saw Kevin Owens at that point obviously known as Kevin Steen I went to a ring of honor show I think the Hammerstein ballroom and he was like in the ring getting fired and cutting appro getting fired by Jim Cornell cutting a Promo uh-huh coming back from being fired by Jim Cornet but anyway just like pipe-bombing Jim Cornet basically and my reaction like so many other idiots <hes> who were not following ring of honor religiously the time was like who is this fancy and punk wannabe <hes> and it was only after that that you know I I saw I actually got into him as a wrestler and I was I think in the exact same venue to see his ladder war with L. Generic which is still one of my favorite matches of all time I saw him in that same venue getting <hes> I mean I saw him SUPLEX <HES> <hes> Steve Carino off of the top rope onto a guardrail which I was the closest thing I've ever seen to public murder <hes> and <hes> utterly utterly fell in love with the guy and his work W._W._e.. has in a lot of ways been superior <hes> than some of the stuff that I saw I just think not maybe not superior but he's excelled on the big stage to a degree that no one at least I would never have guessed some guys just have that that that that thing but the whole point is that I the first thing I said was you know when I saw him was seeing punk related and now <hes> say what you will about Shane Mcmahon but the story just like when seeing punk started staring down John Cena at least the story is now that none of us like Shane McMahon and that was kind of the story of seeing Pumpkins Sina and that made Sina a more viable character yeah right right right. You think that can work. Do you think that will work for Shane as much as you dislike. I think it's a good way to kind of end that chapter of of this era W._w._e.. Like you know the same way that there was more satisfying closure what happened with take on rains time for wrestlemania thirty three. I think this <hes> be as opposed to the idea being that Shane supposed to give other people the rob or something you know the idea that we leave him on a note where he I felt like he was there for a reason and then life carries on I I'm okay with that. You know rather than necessarily just cutting the court abruptly you can't put it back in the box. You know this this this horses out of the bar and all those cliches I just I think sometimes when it comes down to with Shane for me is I don't actually think he's and I'm not talking about his commitment to the in ring. You know athletics. I'm talking about just as a performer overall. I don't think he's a great performer and so it just takes me out of things and stupid sneakers and it's stupid coats and his profuse sweating and his giant neck and all okay I don't I don't what can I say <music>. I'm not a fan. I don't know why I know that like many fans. I have a kind of a bizarre fascination with with gang warfare SORTA than I am. I just really like when <hes> I just like I liked it. When Elias popped up on Sunday Sunday is just the point that we kind of decided? He probably wasn't part of the stable anymore but now he is I just I part of me just want Shane to get a stable together of like five or six guys and they're all just like long haired guys like long haired white guys with beards and just like ashamed clearly has a look that he's going for but he refuses to admit it and maybe that becomes the joke they call it. The SHANECO pack okay well worth. It was worth everything anyway just get Tony. Nissan smackdown is what I'm saying and make him part of that but anyway I I think it'll be interesting to see where they go with this. I mean I think where they're going is sort of obvious but it's it'll be fun. You know to see where we're going. The other obvious evocation here is don't go Boston and Chains Dad Vince <hes> the fact that the that <hes> Owens is using the stunner now on the regular is a as you know it seems to be feel like no coincidence <hes> right and you know if the degree to which they have allowed us to hate Shane McMahon <hes>. If this was the goal it's been successful and we are all going to be very excited to see Kevin Owens. Get this rub of you know showing Shane the door summer slammer you know whenever that comes to pass. I guess there could be you know it could would be harmless and it's mutual. <hes> you know benefits to both both sides. Although I know that there has been some consternation among some of the Internet wrestling community that Champagne and Kevin O. is but one of several storylines that is essentially has recycled itself from two years ago at this point even though even though the circumstances album Bryan Alvarez or somebody laid it all out it literally like every like Oliver storylines exactly where they were two and a half years ago which is fine. I mean as more of a blip than anything else but <hes> I said that my piece this week I mean there's W._w._e.. Likes nothing more than mulligans like when they get when they when they're just like you know what we never really did. We never really we never really got Roman reigns that wrestlemainia moment. We thought he deserves so let's just let's just re book it. You know let's just do it again. And <hes> you know maybe they had some good ideas from two years ago with Shane Kevin owns they haven't they haven't gone through with yet and listen. I mean I think that the big takeaway if we wanted it. Let's take the positive spin on this is that Kevin Owens is getting this shot right. Kevin Owens is going to be the last guy that stares down Shane McMahon if the story goes the way that we think it's going to go you know Kevin. No one's getting this big. Kim Jones is is is now officially in the in the the main event guy who doesn't need a title territory that you were talking about earlier and I think that's a real positive for him and for us as fans right. So how do you keep this up without him. Having to play the the hero in the most mundane mundane senses the question one's life news on from an easy target like shh like Shane. It'll be interesting. I think that if there's anything you know remains to be seen how much control the bishops and an Heyman are going to have but I think that if there were one thing that you hear fans talking about for the fans argument forever that that you know a a powerful <hes> new new couple of powerful new voices on the creative side Ed could really put over is the idea that we're we don't really need faces in heels in the traditional sense anymore <hes> obviously they still exist for storytelling purposes and whatever else but like you know Kevin owns the sort of guy that doesn't need to be kissing babies when he's a baby face in <hes> <hes> he doesn't need to be you know drawing blood when he's a he'll he's just Kevin Owens and I think that <hes> you know he's whatever rub he gets from this. We'll just kind of allow him to continue. Being the sort of voice of I mean Gene Voice of the voiceless I guess is taken but he's he's just sort of you know the current straight talker straight shooter in W._W._e.. And I think that that's I think that's a you know an important role. I mean talking about the undertaker and various other archetypes that need to be constantly. Roles need to be filled. <hes> you know the Brash loud mouth is one of the biggest roles that modern pro wrestling needs you know I'm I'm hopeful that this will help propel him as as much as it will sort of close the book on the Shane McMahon era of W._W._e.. Kevin Owens can can come out of this with the the name Kevin Owens <hes> standing apart just kind of having this cachet that you know hearing the name Steve Austin or Dana Brian did apart from <hes> how they're contextualized within what's happening in W._W._e.. World at that moment and that's a big deal friend. It's true the revival Usoz <hes> I'm sure we'll see more of that going. Non Ouster Black finally re debuted and Beats Azzaro in a ten minute match. That was just fantastic. They ran it back on smackdown. It was pretty good there but <hes> man I could see watch those two guys Russell every night of the week and I would tune in for it <hes> <hes> that was a whole lot of fun. <hes> Bailey. I guess somewhat surprisingly prevailed over Nikki Crossing Alexa Bliss. I say surprisingly because it seemed like the storyline going forward is going to be about Nikki Crossing Alexa Bliss <hes> and now Bailey is going to be as a I mean said literally said the words my the Alexa Bliss chapter is closed and she's moving onto imber moon as her opponent summer slam which is cool for Ember Moon if a little bit lacking in the storytelling department but hey I was the guy just extolling the virtues of entering storytelling telling a la the G. One bronze Roman and Bobby Lashley that was fun. <hes> the ending I thought was enormous was a great idea. That was just a just ridiculously bad executional. Though I know mileage may vary a lot of people seem to really like it but I just don't understand stand the premise of the body slam from the from the rafters or whatever being obscured immediately opponent beginning. It's the does that make any sense what they immediately fell into darkness if the fall had literally been three feet if they had we like presumably the cushions that they landed on like fifteen feet down but the way they had the whole thing set up the cushions could have been two feet down like like there was nothing like let them fall through the air on camera a little bit before they fall into you know cushioning darkness right I yeah I think that's an interesting <hes> very like sort of specific observation about it. I think just broadly speaking I think maybe they have <hes> kind of overplayed. The the <hes> you know slamming guy through you know through like stage setup through equipment setup off you know off stage left or whatever or in the stands I think maybe we maxed maxed out on that with Shane and and miss you know a few months ago. <hes> we all know it's it's stunt work at a ten trying to say and listen you can't always win up yourself but if they just reverse these spots if they had just had this be the spot for the setup and then had them go through the Titan tron Iran or whatever goes through the wall for this match brain walkaway victorious like that that might have been just better for everyone <hes> well. That's fair. I the ideas we're GONNA keep nothing. Holiday failed to do that here and also listen I don't I I'm the last person to ever call for anyone to be fired wrestlers but a particularly people that have <hes> you know workaday jobs anywhere but man whoever built that like barn fence and pretended that was part of the railing of the of the arena that Brown kicked open imagine I mean it didn't like there there was other parts of the railing right there next to it you could see what it was supposed to look like and what he kicked open was made out of wood like it was like spray painted like blanks of would it was that was ridiculous. Gillis don't hire whoever did that but ask them to reconsider review. Their Performance Review needs to touch on that that's all I'm saying I'm sure they'll what's the Eh next night. I actually thought the triple threat tag naturalists smackdown belt was really well done because I went in saying it had to be Otis in Tucker. That'd be heavy machinery winning not because I thought they were the most you know that they were the best necessary choice but necessarily the best choice but I thought that in order to legitimise is a fairly meagre smackdown tag team division they needed to be established as legitimate but they manage to establish them as legitimate I think in the course of that match and then put the belts on the new day anyway which led to that new day has all the belts moment we've been waiting for and also do the other half of my prediction which never made its error is the <hes> is that Daniel Bryan new to reset and I think we saw that kind of happening on Tuesday night business about him. Maybe going to a five live is that what's going on. Is that a rumor. That's okay let me rewind blindness so it was something that somebody mentioned to me on twitter last night and it didn't it didn't occur to me but then all of a sudden I had this something about. It felt vaguely familiar. Maybe I had seen that. That was a consideration yeah. I I don't know I don't know that's I'm going. I'm going off absolutely nothing solid here but I did think well. That'd be actually sort of brilliant if he was like I'm so you know if he was going to pull a billy Madison essentially uh-huh n._B._c. what pack pack slash Neville was in the two of five live roster before he you know before he abruptly part ways I have no. I don't nobody quote me on this. It's just something I heard hurt. I mean it would also probably behoove you know have a long standing bit about how I always thought to. If I would be better if it was two oh five and three or five live because the everybody's favorite matches little guys versus big guys and they leave out the most like the the middle chunk of the main roster but just have the big fat guys in the tall guys fighting little you know fighting Lucia doors that would be a great show <hes> no writer and Hawkins. They're never gonNA wrestling exactly you know. Roman reigns is no whatever just the just a little guys in the giant guys and then but this would actually leave that up that would open up the door for you know if Brian's there with Roman ruins and maybe not an official part of the roster but guys would could challenge into fights. You know it'd be like I'm tired of you interfering in my matches. Let's just do this and why couldn't that be onto five live on sanctioned or whatever <hes> well so. I'm doing it if he if you yeah this is all speculative but if he were to do that went to that show enrolling they're still as his muscle and they were blamed. People around that would be kind of amazing knowing that it would just be temporary. I this is big going off. Absolutely nothing solid well going off of nothing. I like we were going with it <hes> they do need to rebrand that show because it's gotten better and better and there's a lot of talent down there but I think it's still just hamstrung by the insinuation that it's like a you know weaker class performers and it sort of silly in in this day and age when like a solid third of the smackdown roster and some of the raw roster in like ninety percent of the next he roster probably get you know aren't aren't running out there more than two ten <hes> so you know I think that if man if they just called that evolve and like I said well mention evolve in a second but <hes> if they if they call that evolve or anything else it would just feel like a wonderful new world of pro wrestling opportunity anyway moving on speaking wonderful new worlds <hes> A._J.. Styles beat Ricochet <hes>. <hes> the club is a thing and they have a belt <hes> the U._S.. Championship belt to be precise <hes>. I like what they're doing man. I mean it's I guess this is the problem with the with the club you know as it evokes the bullet club in it evokes the wwl you will before it is that they're going to be dogged with fantasy booking about getting new members be it you know <hes> Thin Baylor said obviously with his history with those Kurt with that crew <hes> but even people are talking about ricocheted joining up with them and like I feel like every time I see deep sea mentioned online people are fantasy booking them and I think that unless they go the route of the end of you or they keep getting new members. That's just going to be what people talk about and they're just disappointed that it never happens. Am I create my overthinking this your look your more <hes>. You've got your ear to the around more of these things. I really didn't know that that's <hes> been people's you know wish for this or assumption about this. I just have taken pretty much at face value outside of wanting the fantasy of Finn Ballard it'd be involved somehow to come true <hes> whether as a rival or or you know a supreme ally. I don't know <hes> I <hes> mostly don't like the way it sounds when they call them the club. I'm not nitpicking or being sarcastic and I just it just it sounds like an it sounds like a knockoff of silica which is what it is you know and it sounds like it's cut off at the knees from being the bully club which is what it is not in its presence when they're out out there in the ring but in referring to it as that unless they're going to go all the way and just call to have them do a <hes> tandem finishing move with all three of them called the club sandwich but that's all right can't top that we're going to wrap up this scar Kevin owns over Dolphin talked about Kofi over there looks like or maybe steering towards Kofi versus <hes> versus Randy Orton after smackdown at summer slam which is a good sort of legitimizing match for Kofi <hes> but it seems like we've Kinda gone through. We'll be at the end of his legitimization. At that point. We need to figure out some more long-term storytelling for him. Quick comment that you know the the new day having all three belts thing I think it's a huge <hes> moment for them. Another another sort of <hes> <hes> inscription their legacy that now they transcend kinda stable centrally by having all those belts there beyond just being a three person tag team or Kofi and the two other guys now their dynasty. That's real and I think somebody say they don't at least some of the W._b.. Platforms Kofi he is referred to as a both a tag team champion Dan the W._b.. Champion because of the free brewed rules are perpetually in effect when it comes to the new day in the tax bill that's pretty awesome <hes> and then we talked about the Brooklyn your thing the main event with Seth Ron's and Becky Lynch overbearing Corbin unless you Evans I think the best thing about this for Seth Ron's and Becky Lynch is that <hes> the brock listener thing sort of subsumed the their their tag team union <hes> which I thought could only in badly for them or at least only in villainy for them. I don't you know if that's necessarily a bad thing but I I wrote this piece. I just don't think there's no track record for like that. Sort of those sorts of real life couples being baby faces onscreen except for I don't know Johnny Gargano I I mean it's just you can't be at the highest level. You can't be that good looking. You can't be the best at what you do and not have everybody just sort of roll their eyes at you. I just don't think it's possible. Maybe I'm just like. Maybe I'm too much of a hater thought I saw the new proposed that I really didn't know what uh-huh I really. I wasn't sure where leaned on it. I just I just don't really like I just think it's sort of childish when they start <hes> <hes> kind of stuff for me when real life boyfriend and girlfriend are teaming living together. I think they do what they did with the story was actually good. I think that the way that they told for most of what they did with Becky Lynch sort of you know slapping going after Corbin and just sort of like you know then sort of defending one another's honor and whatnot. I thought that was those stories are well told role that I just don't know I guess this is one of the stories that I would have preferred to just stay off screen. It can stay on W._B.. Social Media Account. I'm not trying. I'm not talking about K. saving at all but like does that really need to be your extreme rules main event. I don't think it's a question of me. I don't think it needed to be now through and said this is my piece to Barron. Corbin and Lacey Evans have taken a bunch of well-deserved flack from me but more so from others but man they both had defining moments in that match Baron Corbin when he <hes> attacked it's Becky Lynch and then pointed a fall fallen Seth Ron's in the corner and say what are you going to do about it you piece of Shit and which was just about credible that is bearing Corbin's highlight reel from now on <hes> and then Lacey Evans who had a really I mean Lacy Evans's who's <hes> you know I think was not quite ready for prime time when she got called up. I don't think anybody has any problem seeing what W._B._Z.'s in her <hes> but that doesn't necessarily work to her benefit both of them both Corbin n Evans have the vibe of you know. I guess the thing that makes a great he'll in the modern era which people thinking that like the front office is more into you than any of us fans are <hes> but Lacey Evans when she she you know has not always been a hundred percent in the ring that sometimes there've been some some bugs but when and she hit that moon saw that beautiful springboard moon salt and then came up with the bloody mouth which you already had but it was just grinned bloody smile to the to the camera that moment I thought I mean that that that was a moment that will stay with me forever and that's being to camera ready and it would just like Lynch was when she seized the opportunity to revel in her broken face and <hes> and maybe that Corbin line was an Improv or maybe directed to just let it fly because they've been doing that more off and on the the last few weeks <hes> but I always thought people have been a little tough on these he evans of late every didn't know why I will say that there's another case of you talking about the Mulligan thing where you know they kind of just read the even Marie I'm GonNa come out and and Gracie with my presence and then walk backstage they were doing that with the Lacey Evans build up at least he actually got to follow through on it and I you know I I guess we'll see <hes> see see where they go next with that with that whole thing and with both of them. I think that they've both you know they'll probably do better is like working in the shadow of brock listeners the top heel but <hes> it took them a while to it took them awhile but if though is if that's any indication maybe they found a footing for these to be to really effective <hes> performance for W._W._e.. <hes> I think overall obviously brock listeners. <hes> you know in the plus column after that night. I'm just GONNA run run through again real quick. This is people who are people who are coming out ahead brock listener. Come come come out ahead think A._J.. Styles Indefinitely Galveston Anderson as his muscle or way ahead from where they were a couple of weeks ago <hes> Cedric Alexander. I'm shrink the results is obviously habits. Drew McIntyre <hes> Bray Wyatt is obviously in the plus column <hes> Who Oh Yeah Natalia. Didn't you totally forgot about that and Italian Natalia's in the plus column that'll be Tawiah is if they can if they can if they can find a way to make to you know to get a little story in there <hes> that could be really fun when although you know we now we have these kind of parallel matches of respect and the two women's matches heading into Somerset Azuma presumably they'll find a way to spice both of those up. They're not over the moon about them. <hes> I'm sorry we don't have more time to talk about them visit and Dolph Sigler who fought on Monday and then kind of went back to his his regular role on Tuesday. Will them sure hopefully I love them. Both hopefully I'll have more to talk about them in the future <hes> and then of course rollins back to where he kind of was <hes> at least you know he's back to where it was a week ago. Basically it doesn't have the belt but he's on top Ron and <hes> and back to definitely where he was before Wrestlemainia. I really enjoyed that tin. Man Battle Royal <hes> to to close raw the selection of wrestlers. I thought was really one of those really fun. Sort of moments defines with top of the car to the top of the roster is i. I think it was very effective for that but I wanted to fit in. I think they could have still gotten some more story out of that battle real if the end result is just that second rematch. We almost going to skip the whole thing. That's long say it's true. It's true would have been nice. I almost I would have rather them do a have done. A you know not a not a no contact. There's some sort of thing with like two guys remaining in the ring and we have to have the the final match down the roads. We could have appreciated serve the whole thing more sort of like brock winning at extreme rules we forgot everything came before it. <hes> this sort of feel like the whole thing was a fait accompli sort of practice <hes> to to get setback in that position but anyway <hes> and then over on smackdown ouster black is obviously in the plus plus plus column live Morgan again has a flash of life a spark of life and had had a pretty interesting match against Charlotte flair was good to see some new blood there <hes> and then Daniel Bryan is doing something interesting as we discussed. That's definitely a plus <hes> Randy Orton Back Anna Randy or new role and then <hes> Kabuki warriors are your new women's tag team champions. Apparently they're really reinvested in that whole thing we will see Apollo crews is getting a little looking and Sandra Day to a small plus and then Kevin Owens's than the giant plus category. <HES> WE GOTTA move off this. We gotta get to <hes> gotta get to aid w <hes> there's this was a five of the fallen was not a major show and I've talked about this a million times before but but w I mean W I think my impression depression is they were caught a little bit flatfooted by the excitement that that attended both fighter fast and five of the fall and the both are supposed to be relatively minor shows but people were stoked for them as if they were you know the next double or nothing <hes> and they kind of had to work overtime to to put together cool matches to make to make them seem you know relatively significant <hes> or eared it to you know. Give us a look into what's to come <hes>. Hopefully we'll be writing about that for the for the ringer later this week this whole what's to come free w thing but. But <hes> did you have like who do you to you. Were there any big winners from five for the phone that you WanNa you wanNA touch on <hes> while I you know I I don't think they spoil the opportunity to have the Rhodes brothers <hes> compete that could have saved that if they wanted but we can revisit it again. I think it might be a no brainer headlining a story you know in the early weeks of of the T._N._t.. Show <hes> I don't no I to me. It was just a neutral show it wasn't I got the impression 'cause I didn't I wasn't able to watch until either later that night or the next night or something like that I got the impression just from scanning social media that people were disappointed and I was expecting the worst and really the only a major <hes> you know kind of the major mistake was you know miss estimating time at the end and cutting off the bucks little <hes> sportsmanship moment with with cody and Dustin to bring out that check and and Chad combine your and headlights and the whole weird thing <hes> I will say this. I think there's there is some cart before horse stuff. That's going on when w when they're very excited to get out in front of things and create a buzz I think they might have actually been better off the little stealthier about how they <hes> rolled fighter fest and fight for the fallen out and let people come to it rather than <hes> rather than necessarily promote it in such spectacular fashion and they were being you know press releases came out each of those events long time ago but so there was some there was time for people to anticipate and get excited and people are looking at it if the release valve and I don't know if necessary provided that for or them but it boomerang back to W._W._e.. And constructive ways we mentioned so I'm just going on and on here but I'm looking forward to them really getting serious in the sense of saying okay. We can't let everyone on the card. <hes> you know we you know there has to be some kind of stories have to kind of progress from event to event and we gotta stop doing this whole book and in the shows with <hes> you know patting each other on the backs are being here stuff. I think all that needs to go and let's let's keep up some pretense of of of cable. Almost you know in being from from start to finish at least within the confines of the event and yeah that's my like real real brief out. Just just like you settle on a little bit and writing this week yeah. I think they're kind of Maine of unseen is is what's most intriguing to me. <hes> sort of you know the absence of pockets or packs or you mentioned earlier <hes> and then Kenny Omega Adam page seems to be kind of getting shocked under that rule a little bit early because of <unk> packs absence <hes> and then and then you know cody Rhodes <hes> kind of being ostentatiously separate Brit from that part of the part of the <hes> the roster <hes> somebody mentioned this on I think on on Reddit this week and I totally agree that the Pentagon juniors gotta be a main of inner soon. I think that like the Luther brothers are just so so over and they soon as you know a matter of taste. I guess but it's not gonNA take long when the weekly showed debuts before I think it's clear that like the loser brothers are like the most over guys on the roster. It'll be kind of interesting. Almost almost a new day situation will be interesting to see <hes> how quickly likely they decided to sort of pull the trigger on pushing one or both of those guys as singles because they can both do it and they're both <hes> you know it's they're just like my favorite thing <hes> it about almost every w show <hes> shouts to Kenny Omega who had another really great match and <hes> and I've really enjoyed the dark order <hes> there's a lot of fun stuff in and I liked it. They just a six man tag match just in theory I liked it. They kind of put. There's sort of like second tier borderline headline players in a in a in a six man match just to like give them screen time without wasting storytelling on a on a minor show. I think that was a that was an effective storytelling tool but overall. Oh I thought it was really successful. I think that <hes> now the pressure's really on for <hes> for all out to <hes> to to be insanely good and I think that's a good amount. That's a good sort of pressure-free W I'm very excited to see what they do with it. Yeah I mean I think everyone I think to some degree. You kind of have to understand that you know maybe while they should have approached us more like hey. We're GONNA do secret shows if he's more club before we do our amphitheater tour. Maybe they should have had that more Clinton's plan this time <hes> approach they didn't they you know they put all their promotional muscle behind each of these events to the point where there was some confusion about what to expect but okay and that means. It's fair game to say like this. Is You know how this is what we think about it now that we've gotten a look <hes> but we all need to just <hes> you know kind of be ready to be feted as wrestling fans 'cause really we're going to be sitting there. Just just you know <hes> waiting to be the IM- impressed and then see who <hes> who really courts us in courts our attention and our dollars in our time go coming out of the you know going into the fourth quarter to put it in those terms of this here this weekend was any indication <hes> there will be competition for our time. I think for a lot of wrestling fans just the more wrestling the better but I think that trying to get into g one matches and trying to watch these pay per views knowing that Ron smackdown. We're looming on stuff that did feel like there was a lot of wrestling and to keep up you you know to be the one of the things about wrestling that you wanna watch it live or soon as soon as you can so that you can get online and talk about talk about it with your friends and there's GonNa be a competition whether or not it's a Monday night war. There's a competition for our for our hours you know for for our time and and I and I <hes> an early for attention and <hes> it's it's exciting. If a little bit you know exhausting but it's definitely exciting exciting personally and professionally because you know of course I don't only write about wrestling as you know I I have a backlog of past episodes of everything from <hes> pose to <hes> to. Let's see I'm looking at my d._V._R.. Right now everything from pose to full-frontal with Samantha B that that I would like to get to but the reason I haven't is directly related to how much wrestling I've been watching Lee Lee because you know there's also M._S._W.'s weekly show ring weekly show which we don't even get into you know I will say this. The more the more wrestling there has been basically since A._W._S.. Become a going concern the more <hes> I have found myself watching other stuff and not not at the expense of anything else I mean. I think I'm just like more in the bubble than I've been in a long time. I've been watching him L. W.. I've been watching a little bit of ring of honor. Obviously it talked about she won at we gotta get out of here but I wanna say if you haven't seen the evolve show it's worth it. It's on the W network with worth at least dipping in out of <hes> throw it on the background. When you're doing something else and see what you can see? There's obviously if you're in exte- fan there's some cool appearances by Matt Riddle and <hes> Adam Cole is our <hes> but those the last two matches in particular <hes> if you live in the middle of nowhere don't get to go to you know indie shows on the regular even if you live somewhere gone through stretches writing go to indy indie shows a lot <hes> but Austin Theory J._d.. Drake match I thought was just like like a just captured. What like good indy wrestling is all about in such a kind of fun and exciting way <hes> so watch that and just like give yourself over to it? It's real I mean there's a lot of good stuff on this car. I'M GONNA do his service to almost all of it and then Adam Colon secured develop you know hadn't n._F._C. Championship match to headline the show to sort of put the card over but <hes> you know it was a little bit of a house show match but it was really well done on and I thought I thought it was a lot of fun and it had a <hes> I I don't know there's just like it was just a small thing but it felt like it felt like <hes> there's always things for W._b.. Learning in this era of competition and new leadership and everything everything else and <hes> there were a lot of little things that have all show that made me think oh I wish W._B._Z.. Stuff like that and the same thing with Awa so <hes> you know hopefully hopefully there will be some learning. Hopefully there will be some evolving <hes> no pun intended and and <hes> and hopefully you know we're on this road to summer. Slam is going to be an and to all out is going to be incredible and awesome I think <hes> and of course we'll do our best between now oh and then to continue to I think remind people of what they should be looking forward to this this upcoming stretch and I really I could I am someone who tends to almost dread <hes> occasions in life period because it just means you have to be <hes> preparing for it and you have any create expectations and you have to set aside time for to watch things or do things I it's too much pressure. However I am? I am genuinely excited and cannot cannot wait for August cannot come soon enough because of some are slamming all out and what that portends for what <hes> what the immediate future will hold so that's a long is I am going to say in that regard well. Thank you for doing this. Can you get out of here. Jim just send me a message that it's twenty five years ago to the day. That Hulk Hogan made his entering debut W._C._W.. Bash at the beach capturing while W._C._W.. Championship from Ric Flair <hes> I can't. I believe it's been that long. I can't believe I'm so old. That was a really sad note Jim to go out on because now I just feel again. Sorry I well. It's especially striking when you realize oh I actually was sort of way past puberty when when that happened and it was that long ago okay so I'm I'm still in puberty. I'm still going through it but I was passed it at that point. Well thank you for going through this great life experience on this podcast today. Thanks everybody to listening. Thank you <hes> offer indulging all all this wrestling talk with us for the last week again and as always apologies to Jon Moxley. We'll see you back here next week. I think I can speak for most wrestling fans.