ET041 - Behind the Scenes with Travel Writer, Linda Ballou
Yeah. There travelers welcome to eat travels with each rules. Personal and literary podcast of travel adventures and misadventures from around the world. This is cool and thanks. Hoy there may dis welcome to another behind the scenes episode. On the podcast today, I'll be talking with the win the Balu and accomplished travel and adventure writer who challenges her readers to self actualize and make their own dreams come true. When they is a rugged individualist. To knows that she needs tall mountains and shady glens to stay in balance, not having to make her living as a travel writer. She selective about her journeys and how and when she takes them, she aims to get as many beautiful places in the world that she can before they are no more. She enjoys reading travel narratives and historical archives about a place before visiting it because she doesn't want to go to a destination until she has a sense of what's going on behind the gorgeous scenery, which he tries to see with wonder and a sense of humor like her travel writing hero, Tim, k hill. She tries not to take yourself too seriously her historical novel. Why? Noni avoi- some old Hawaii. Let's see the traditional island society as it existed when captain James Cook arrived at Kiala ca Kuwah bay in seventeen seventy nine. In another book, the cowgirl jumped over the moon. She takes her readers on wild ride that begins in the horse, show jumping world and then wanders into the high Sierras. But before I start speaking with Linda wanna. Thank you my listeners for coming back to the podcast or discovering the show. For the first time I greatly appreciate it. Whether you're a seasoned traveller or listener who just likes good travel stories. I'm glad you're here. The podcast depends on your ears. If like to catch up with any of the previous travelogues or interviews from season one or those thus far from season to please go to the podcast library on my homepage at Eric trolls dot com. Forward slash podcast, leave your comments on each episode's show notes page. Ask questions, sign up for the mailing list and make donation if you so choose. We're now talking season three. You can listen to the podcast on Spotify an iheartradio as well as on Stitcher for Android phones, apple podcasts. For tunes there. You can rate and review the show which if you have something. Nice to say really helps the podcast get heard, all right back to win the Balu once again, I'm meeting my guess for the first time in the studio. Thanks to an enthusiastic introduction by Jim Dorsey, my adventurer explorer guests from episode, thirty one which you can find in the library. Jim writes about one of Linda's books, quote, lost angel walkabout by Linda Balu, takes the reader out of their armchair and into the vast world as few travel writers can her eye for detail combined with intimate knowledge of her surroundings sets miss Balu heads above most of the travel writing pack. In this age when everyone with a backpack proclaims him or herself a travel writer, it takes a book like this one to redefine the John Ryan. The stories are personal and inviting giving the reader not. Only a feeling of participation, but also leaving them with a memory of where they've just visited. This is just playing great travel writing in quote. I'm very happy to have when the here today in the barbershops recording studio in echo park loss Angeles from just over the hills into panga canyon, welcome to the show vanden. I'm so flattered to be here. Well, I'm glad you're here. Let's start talking about how you began your life's journey. What did you do before you began travel writing? Well, always written all my life. I've written journals and so on, and I had. Tried my hand at scripture to, and you know, have a degree in English literature, but then I had an accident horseback riding accident that put me on my hands in east for about six weeks and made me think about things. And I went, you know what? I'm gonna have some fun with this stuff. You know, I am. I just want, you know, get out. I wanna see the world. I want to use my writing. I want, you know, to get more out of my writing more fun. You know, not just work. So, and I love to travel and it became I, I got my first gig was a Sikh acking have been Baugh and I just got totally hooked, you know? 'cause I got to kayak from island to island, and there was a pot of dolphins that came up channel with us, you know, having and puffing beside me and you know, sleeping in a tent doesn't sound good to most people, but I love it because you wake up at sunrise and you see the day, you know, you see the break of day in you see, son, you know, you're immersed in danger. I just love being outdoors, so became an outdoor adventure travel writer. I saw on your website just before you came over, I took one more look. It said, talked about soft travel adventure. Well, Michael Shapiro whose another travel writer friends with James. He said, drop that soft stuff. He said, you're not a soft adventure twelve. He said, you're doing real adventures. And I must say that I moved forward. I became Raver and the tach Chini river story is the opening story in my book. And that was a very out there experience. It was rafting in a rubber raft from the Yukon down to the Gulf of Alaska through the largest pristine wilderness area lift in North America. I mean, incredible, just incredible. They're, you know, it is dangerous because if you get in an accident, there's there's no helicopters. There's no turning back and you do have to trust. In your guides and but it wasn't difficult. It wasn't hard. It was like, you know, they set up the camp. They did the cooking all I had to do with pot my tant and get up in the morning and get in my raft and go for, you know, twenty twenty five miles through this gorgeous pristine wilderness. And we had, yeah, okay. We had bear tracks around the tent camp at night. You know, there were animals and I saw chasing a moose with a baby. I mean, we were, we ran into a bear with some cubs, but all of that was just exciting to me. I didn't have a sense of danger, so usually travel with guides I do because this sort of thing I know you like independent travel in the idea of doing a free fall. I've got that part from you and I, I do like independent travel. Ideally, what I do on a trip is like when I went to New Zealand, I did eleven days on the South Island with active new-zealand and they. Had arranged all of these active outdoor. We hiked hut to hut which I can't do by myself. I have to have guides for this stuff. But then I arranged for a week on the north shore on my own, which is much more civilized in which more easy to explore, even though. I do have a story in my book called no exit from Auckland because I had very cleverly rented a car off side of the airport site because you save money that way. Right? But Enzi Scotties was in downtown Auckland, and you know, they turn they drive on the wrong side of the road there. Right. I've had misadventures doing that. So you know, I was just deposited in downtown rush, rush traffic, nicest people in the world. Seriously that New Zealand people that Kiwis are Swedish people in the world where yelling go home, yank. The it was just out of sorts. Why do you call Tim k hill as you're writing hero? Well, because Tim, well, first of all, he's the, he's the godfather of the real travel narrative essay. You know, he's the one that developed talked about having a dramatic spine in your stories, you know? And he. Was a tremendous adventure and a great writer, and he combined those things beautifully. And he done nine books and they're all fun. He has a wonderful sense of humor, so deprecating sense of humor. But you always learn something when you read one Tim stories, and he's gone places that I will never go. Thank God. He went and now he's just he's. And he's also very nice man. I interviewed him because I admired him so much when I got into the trail writing thing, I believe in going to the mountain, I don't, you know any. So I went to Montana where he lives in Livingston and interviewed him in his home. Is he still alive? Yes, he is absolutely. Tim is publicly in his late sixties. Early seventies, I would guess at this point to contact him for the buck. He's wonderful. Tim is great. You know, you'll laugh. Who doesn't like to. Well, I have a feeling these are connected, but how would you describe what you're trying to do, what you trying to achieve in your books? Well, good writing is at the top. You know, I want to engage people. And as you know, Tim says, you know, I wanna write about things that I care about and hopefully make people care about them, but not with a hammer, you know, not with a heavy message about by taking them there by delivering them with a sense of place, you know, getting appealing to all of their their senses, you know. And that's generally would great travel writer will strive to do is take you to that place. Immerse you in the place, but you'll notice that in my book at the end of each story or not all of them, there's an eco alert because what I've learned is just about everywhere that I've traveled. There is very serious environmental threat to the region, and I don't like to put it in the story because I don't wanna moralize, but I do feel that as a writer. And so. Someone traveling around the world. That I do have a responsibility to grow awareness for issues that I have learned about. Talk a little bit about your why Noni book, which he told me you are most proud of took you twenty years to research and it's not only a travel book, but it's a historical novel. It isn't aid. Why not is based upon the life of Kakuma mono, who was the favorite wife of command the great and she was a child is bride, and she rose to be the most powerful woman in old Hawaii. And when I was introduced to her, I was living on coy in nineteen seventy eight. And it happened to be the bison ten ill year of the landing of captain James Cook in the islands. So they're all and I was working on the guard Nile running. I took the job as a little cub reporter so I could run around the island and interview people. So I had access to all these people and I became immersed in the the history and the beautiful culture of the Hawaiian people. And there was an enormous contradiction. You know. This Aloha spirit stuff on conditional love. No child goes on, loved, you know, all all of that. And yet I knew that in their history, there was human sacrifice in there was, you know, a great deal of cruelty and harsh punishment. So I just had to figure out why this strange dichotomy in their culture. And and so I took it upon myself to write this story for person and had I known the challenge that I was taking on. I may not have done it, but as I got deeper and deeper into it, I felt in obligation to get it right to be true to the culture to really tell story in a way that did not offend the Hawaiian people, but but that they would acknowledge was the truth. So I make their way of talk story and poetry and their Malays they and they have really a beautiful beautiful culture. So. For twenty years. I had a lot of fun. It became a beautiful obsession. I went back and forth through the islands. I wasn't living there all that time, but I interviewed cool moves and went to sacred sites, and you know it's and why Noni has gotten good acknowledgement. One thing I will say that I shared it with Hawaiian scholar and she said, if you publish this story, you're gonna have two hundred years of bad luck because the Hawaiians don't want you to tell their story. They don't wanna Howley. I'm a white person. They don't wanna Howley to tell their story. They have had their story corrupted by westerners over and over and over again. So then I had to say, I invested all his tie. I thought you'd be so happy. I thought it would be so thrilled that I did too, too wonderful job. And it's going to be delay. She'll be deal way down on arrival. So that step me back for a year. I was devastated. But at the end of the day, my Angelo says, there's nothing worse than having a story inside you that needs to be told. So. To do it. I had to do it. So I did it. And I'm very happy to say that I've had a few detractors, but for the most part, I have nothing but fabulous reviews for this book. And one author, she's, she's a, she's a white woman, but she's born and raised in the islands, and she's a writer. They're very famous and she says, why Noni casts a hypnotic spell that transport shoe tooled Hawaii. You're the touch by that. I am. Why? Because you know, I was taking a chance, you know the. That you know, my book would not be well received in that was going to hurt me. Travel wife, being an artist, putting a book out there is risky business. You have to be courageous and chances. Well, Komano was courageous. You see, that was remember I was inspired to write the story because of her. She was a child is bride which in history women are only important for who they conceived, who they married, but she was extremely intelligent and she managed to maneuver her way through this Kappa system which was very harsh. You mentioned in my house few terms that he'd know Cup who the and you told me there was a sanctuary refuge place on the island right investing, right. Okay. So the in twelve fifty, the two Haitians came to the islands, and they brought with them the pollen two thousand year old Polynesian Kappa system. If you break up who you will be clubbed to death by the priests, you will become human sacrifice and you could end up this way. Way by doing something so insignificant as walking in the shadow of chief. So they had this very strict hierarchy. They were inbreeding like the gyp shins on the royals and they had slaves and they had the middle class that did all the work. So if you broke a couple. You you didn't necessarily have to die. If you could make it to the place of refuge in there is there are many of them in the islands, but the the best one west preserved in the most significant one is on the big island which was the center of their culture at the time that was ruling and you can go there. And if you make it if the priests except you in the place of refuge, you don't have to get clubbed to death. You can stay there and you can go through certain protocols in in time able to reenter in society. So it's a Nollie Olly, oxen, free kind of Justice a run for your. It's very, you know, we think of it is, oh, that's cute. But in fact it was very serious to them and. Yes, and and she actually rose Hamano actually rose to become a place of refuge in her body. Her being is like hiding behind women's skirts, right? But she was a healing Kamu. She knew the healing medicines and things, and I enter viewed healing coup and had the lomilomi massage which you know we all have. We have lemme lemme here, but in the days of old win, a child was born. If he was a Royal like comme, Amana, you're you. They would low me low me your fingers to make them longer to to, to make them into antenna to receive Mon, which is spiritual power and the hula that is a very beautiful dance was omitted Haitian, and a way of bringing on into your being only went to Hawaii once for the New Year's Eve of the millennia. And I was. On cou. Why? And. It's not a place I'm drawn to or tracked it too. But all these things that you talk about our traditional and historical little Bali where I met my wife and we have a little villa there, but the places have become so full of tourists that it's very hard to access the history and the tradition. And that's why your book so valuable and also the the Hawaiians don't share it freely. They will give you a snippet. Like when I went to the Bishop museum, which is the houses, the greatest Polynesian artifact collection. I think in all Polynesia if not the world and the dough sent is he was telling the story and I said to the Dosen I said, why? Why didn't you say anything about a Hmong? Oh, she was so important. She was when he died when comme a died, he was. Stowed upon her the same power as prime minister equal weight with his son because his son was a drunker and he knew his son was no good to rule. So he gave the power to her and she ended the cap who system she was the individual that was responsible for the burning of the gods in eighteen nineteen one year prior to missionary contact. And he turned his back on me and walked away. He was not going to talk about it. There is still controversy there today about it. She in some in the upper class, the elite class, the descendants of the 'Ali say she was the flaw that brought down the chiefdom. She ended it and two others. She's the loving mother of the people. I didn't know any of this stuff. You know until I got into and I had no idea was in this broiling controversy. You know that exists today. I think it's true wherever you go. You know, there's an outward friendliness and civility. So many places in third world, Asia, Vietnam, Indonesia. And the truth is, is that it's a very insulated culture at the same time. So behind the smile, some privacy enrich made is not for not for the Taurus for the tourists in Hawaii, particularly which is sinking from the weight of the. Tourists they put on a pleasant face in their lovely people, but behind the scenes, there's tremendous resentment to the fact that a they're being priced out of their homeland in a few things like that. In fact, they won. There's talk of some of the want to succeed from the union. You know, similar in in Bowie, although it's not an American state, I'd like to broaden out a little bit. Thanks so much for the know much about Hawaii and I love Trish. Noah history. So thanks for that. Interesting. And I think if anyone's going to the islands, it will enhance their experience. If they if they read my book, I hope they will let them know our little later. I know that you like to recommend five places. People should go before they die. Am I? Right? Well, there's a lot of places what go ahead. I, I mean, I'm not sure which ones you're referring to know. I just read that you want you thinking. We have five places to recommend before people. Exactly. True. Well, they're all outdoor places k and I, I would say new-zealand South Island to me as phantasmagoric beautiful. And I really think that if you can, you can go is like a huge play ground. It's very easily accessed, you know, the the, they love to hike. They love to kayak, if you're an outdoor enthusiast, it's absolutely incredible. Now I just returned from Tory still pine ace, which was very high on my list of places that I wanted to go before I died towards still is at the southern tip of Chile, the very southernmost point of the continent and very long journey to get there. You have to fly down to Poon two arenas, which is on the Magellan. Straits is a great deal of history in this part of the world. And I found it really fascinating most of it's pretty ugly because of the way the Europeans treated the the native peoples there. Which is pretty typical, but there's an other worldly kind of feel to that part of the world. So driving Poon to from Poona arenas or to Tori so pines will you may have heard of the towers? I'm sure you've seen pictures of these mountains. These flaming towers and the horns are snow tip to very dramatic, very unusually shaped mountains in why? Because it's so windy. There is so windy. I didn't realize our first hike. You know, we went out on a guanaco trail. Greenock are like Lama big, big Brown eyes and fluffy sweet looking, but they spit on you if they can camels. Yes. So you don't cozy up to, but you know, we leaned into the wind, you know, like you know, crouch down leaning into the win on the first high. Mike, and it was beautiful and lovely and wonderful and everything. But I had no idea how super windy this place was until we went on the second hike and you could. You could see the gusts pro forming doubles water. Devils on the lake as they were building seventy mile an hour. Cost can knock over a grown man easily. So you learn how to turn your back and brace yourself, and you learn to try to hide behind home of. Amount of soil or something, you know, because you would just get knocked over by this wind and the guide said that it's not this way in the winter. It's only this way in this summer and she said that athletes come down there at a train because it's like an isometric exercise for them to be in this constant wind, you're in his wind tunnel. And after about three days there, you know, it's like, I don't know the constant win it. It just puts you into otherworldy state. That's all I can say. I'll take one more of your five, Rick. Well, I do think that Alaska the majesty of Alaskan. I am from Alaska. So I am prejudiced. I am from the prettiest little town in all southeast Alaska, which is Hanes fee only state in the union. I haven't been well if you at least go to glacier bay. But if you could be strong. Enough for brave enough to raft attach and she any like I did. I would say that is a live changing experience. When I took that trip. I was a traveler, I was at a venture. I was all of those things. But by the end of the trip, I was an environmentalist you know it, it changed me to really wanna care about these pristine wilderness places into to keep them somehow help keep them. So Alaska generally. I mean, even if you went to Denali which I've not been to its majestic, it's awesome. It's, you know, and it's I have a need for wildness. The trip that I'm trying to get right now is in b. c. British Columbia. It's horseback trip into this chill co lake wilderness, and it's surrounded by these snowcapped mountains in. I know there's a lot of big fun of their, you know, grizzlies and things like that. But with with the proper guide, your fine. You know, it was my next question. We're going to go next. I'm working on that trip. I thought I wanted to go to Julia, but actually I really want inside me is a dose of the wilderness and not going to get that. I don't think in Australia, and it also all-stars very far away. Why not just go to Canada, which is pretty easy flight. Of course, on this particular trip, you have to take charter flight into the lake. There's no roads or anything, but I got going on it because of Wade Davis. You may be familiar with him. He's an anthropologist who wrote a book called away finders, and he's very concerned about the environment and he had a Ted talk about the sacred headwaters in Canada. There'd being threatened by extractive industry and it's the headwaters. Three major arteries and to pollute them would be sacrosanct. I mean, it would just be hideous and the first nation people are fighting it and people like way Davis fighting it. And I'm going, you know, I, I care about this stuff. I'd like to go there and. The next question is, what would your next travel book be? You. Okay. This is laws stage a walkabout, right? So next week is lost angel unleashed. What do you think. I think it's a little too close. I think like the unleashed put. The last stage. Well, you know, I'm lost angel amongst fourteen million other laws Daniels like yourself. You know that too. I am. No. I don't know what I'm stuck here. I'm in LA for a lot of reasons, but one of them is because I'm with a man that I've been with for thirty four years who will never leave here. So I'm a lost angel. You know, I, there are a lot of nice things about LA and living into panga canyon. I have a nice kind of a trade off. We live in the canyon and he goes city listeners. Very well to panga canyon is up the coast and then into canyon high in the mountains, and it's called the hippie canyon. And it's it's very insular in the people who live there and very old school and creative and late sixties seventies kind of world. It's an artistic enclave. I like that even better with a lot of really fascinating talented people hidden out there and they have some really neat hideaways. There are some aging rockers. Yes, there's a lot of will. There's the alien Airways is one of the broadcasts out there where people are talking to aliens on a regular basis. I'm not. But it's fun. It's really fun it in there, and I just love being in the trees and your next travel book. Will be my collection of stories. That I'm working on, you know it'll be. I don't think it will be happening another couple of years that will be publishing another travel book and just name your books from your travel collection. The stories know the names of the books. Well, my travel collection are the essays that are in my book lost angel walkabout. And then I have my novel. Why not? And I also have a novel, the cowgirl jumped over the moon. The other project that I'm working on constantly which is just fun is lost angel at home in paradise whereby I take people to my favorite hikes in the Santa Monica mountains and all the way up the coast to the lost coast. And that's just something that I do for myself that I've been doing all my life and I thought, why don't I put the collection together and share with people? So actually that would be the closest next book. Publishing books is always been such a challenge for me. I don't like the idea of self publishing finding an age and then a publishers. It's a big deal and it takes focus, right? So I'm mightily impressed with what you've been able to account. Say that there is a novel in my heart and mind that I want to write a there was a woman, but because of the enormous challenge, I don't wanna take it on right now. I wanna travel now, but this woman Isabela bird. The lady of the Rockies was this plucky Englishwoman who rode in the rocky mountains solo in the late eighteen sixties eighteen sixty five. And she didn't stop there. She'd been went onto ride and ship pan and China and India. And she was just incredible woman and she had a love affair with a man called mountain Jim in the Rockies. And I'm just enamored with these two and I'm a horse person. So I I would like to write their love story historical novel. But I just, you know, right now I wanna travel. So that's my focus is getting to all those places I can before they're gone. Now. I haven't been to nearly the places you have been all over. I've not been to Morocco, which you made some really fascinating to me and I, you know, there's, I've been to Bali for heaven's sakes. I have a map in my house with pins with places. I've been the truth is it's impossible to go everywhere in the world. You know, you look at my map. I, the people go. Oh, well, you've been so many places and I see it's empty. You know, it's best places that I haven't been in a, you know, you can get more more detail specific. You can go back to France with a twentieth time and still see places that you never saw. You can be in Los Angeles where you live for thirty years and still discover new things. I just realized that one other thing I think people should do before they die is wrath, the Grand Canyon. That is an incredible experienced. It's very close to us here in LA, but that takes you Jeep into, you know, the millenniums of time you know it it really, it's, it's a fantastic experience. Fantastic. Great. Thanks for that. Moving along in our interview. I think it's time to take the truth travel quiz, ready, geez. Starts off easy. Where were you born? I was born on Treasure Island in Oakland, California, who I think I know that you go over the bay bridge. Right? And you see treasury. I didn't know anyone will live there. I wasn't. I'm a navy brat. Oh, military. Interesting. And where would you say you're from. I really think I'm a Californian even though I was rudely row uprooted when I was thirteen and taken to Alaska by my father who was a retired military man, and we went up there to homestead was the thought and after the wind up there in the summer and after the first two or three months of that in the winter started setting in it became very clear that my mom and dad and his three children were not going to be able to survive out there in the wilderness. So we we moved into town. So I am from Hanes Alaska, but I think I'm a Californian. Okay. So where do you call home? Oh, definitely. California. Definitely not to paying specifically the beach, the ocean. I can't leave the ocean. I can't leave the Pacific Ocean. I mean, I could move to. I don't even wanna move to Hawaii is. Much as I love it. I think California's incredibly beautiful state was so much variety and it's huge in. It's just endless beauty here. Agree and we'll Sandra's where we're at right now. Echo Bork. We're twenty minutes from the beach in twenty minutes from the twenty minutes of the desert. Right? It's credible yet. Do you have a favorite place in the world. Favorite place in the world. I, I guess I have to go back to to New Zealand the South Island just because it's so beautiful to me and it's a temperate rainforest. It's so comfortable there, beautiful easily access. I, I think the South Island of New Zealand. What do you think it means to be a travel to be you travel. You have to have a curious mind, you have to, you have to care about where you're going to so many people go. I know so many people that are myopic, they, they're not thinking about anything except for what's for dinner. I think you have to have a genuine caring and curiosity about other people and to want to know about them and to, you know to, I love the beauty of the planet. I mean, I just wanna see it all. What's one place that you've always wanted to go where you've never been. Always wanted to go. Well, I got to Africa, which was a place I always wanted to go, but I didn't see all of that, and I would certainly go back to. I went to butts wanna Zimbabwe's via I would go, which are fabulous in probably might be the best Africa. I don't know because I didn't get detention year and Kenya. So I kind of have to go back, but. Not just yet. I did make an acquaintance with a young man who he runs. This is Africa, and he said that I could join him on his his tour and it's it's in there. I'm gonna get there if not wack of places to go to one's life and the amount of time. That's why I don't wanna get hung up writing a novel right now. I wanna travel. Do you have a favorite city? Why. Gosh, I gotta say Shan Francisco, gotta love San Francisco. Every time I go over the bridge. I get little tears in my eyes. I. There's something about the bay. There's something about the smell in the air. There's just something about it, and it's just so beautiful to me, and I love to get out on the water. I like to get the ferry on the other side of the and go into the city on the ferry that's so much fun. You don't have to worry about parking. Get off the boat. You go, you know. We went to a wedding in Tiburon and we were staying in larks per. So I think that's where you mean this ferries. Commuter ferries. Marin exactly what's your favorite non urban place, a park, a canyon? Why non urban place here locally? No anywhere in the world. Gosh. Well, I love the Santa Monica mountains. I tell you it's the largest urban preserve in the United States. Maybe even the world, they say, I don't know. I just think it's fabulous that I have all these wonderful trails just outside my door yesterday, I hiked up Nichols flat. I was the only one there save for one other couple who having a picnic and there's upon there. There's birds and views of the ocean and while flowers, and it's just gorgeous and it's safe. I know there's not lions, but not many of them and they're nocturnal. I do carry pepper spray, but it's there. It's wonderful to have it so close. It's just saves me. It saves me mentally allows me to have an open space and to like yesterday, found myself being very emotional lot of things. Life tears were running. I'm just like, what? What's happening? Just emotional release, which is, you know, necessary. I think one of the traps of living in a city in an apartment where you don't have access to the sky, you know, it makes you less human. And so even if you have a back deck or balcony, need to go out for hike, you need to connect universal one of my things. And I know you agree with this is that we need to reconnect with nature. And that's one of my theme songs in in in my in cowgirl, jumped over the moon, big, big time. I, I want my heroine to reconnect with nature, and I take her up to the high Sierras so she can do that. What's your favorite mode of transportation horseback. go. Don't have think about that. You're the only one is said that it's my favorite mode of transport. I love going. I've written. I've done trek and Ecuador in Cottrell. I've ridden Ireland. I've done guest ranches all over the western United States. I just and that's why what is busy thing? Oh, horseback in the high Sierras, I love it LA. Who do you like to travel with me. I, you know, I do people say that you know where St. we'll have Steve Steve going? No, he's not. He's really not interested, frankly, and I prefer to travel alone. I'm sorry, I do why, because as a travel writer, for one thing, I have a job. I am doing something I am able to connect with people much more readily as single person. I can have spontaneous experiences as a single person. I don't have to worry if he's having a good time. You know? I mean, because if I'm with him, the relationship is different. So I would like to tell my listeners just that, but you have traveling so low is different than traveling. They're both good right. Two roads diverged in the woods, which way would you go. The one less traveled. Because I, I love I have. One of my stories is there's not enough said for solitude, and there's not everyone wants togetherness. You know, I would go on the last travel so that I could have tranquility. So I could have piece. So I could be meditative and I went to frost house. He had a cabin in the green mountains, and it was empty. He was gone, but I walked around his place where he had his peace and he had a garden and it was delightful. And I don't think I could have had the same experience hit. I've been with someone. Swart throws Walden pond. Exactly. Last question when the where we go when you die. Well, I would love to go to po- which is where the Hawaiians go. They go underwater to this wonderful underwater world where you don't have to work because you don't have to eat, so you don't have to work, but you can play checkers, you can dance, you can swim. You can play music and you could just have fun and PO the entrance to Pogue by the way is on the south side of wipe eel valley on the big island. I know exactly where it is. Who knows? Maybe I'll meet you. Okay. Thanks so much for being on the show. Wyndham really appreciate your coming over to the barber shop recording studio and telling us about your wife's work and inspiration listeners if you'd like to learn anything more about Linda, please go to Linda Balu author dot com. Naturally, you can find her books on Amazon and kindle, and when the has a Facebook page and a personal blog, I'll list all her contact information in the show notes page for this episode loyal and new listeners are hope you enjoyed our interview today to remind you again where you can find any episodes that you've missed where you can leave your comments. Let me know how I'm doing where you can make a donation to the show. Just go to Eric drools dot com forward slash podcast. Finally, please tell all your friends about the podcast. Join the Facebook groups and rate and review the show on your various podcast hosting service providers. His podcast grows one listener at a time. Until next time. As we say here on the show. Happy trail. Supervised by Amanda sound design braille. We should promote courted by Scott barber, barbershop recording, skating, echo park last. Produced by Harry Duran full cast. This podcast has been partially supported with UC capstone, thanks to USC and the entire production team for their support. Please contact me at Eric trolls. Not come to let me know what you think. Hell I'm doing anything else you'd like to hear received by listening to the podcast until next time? Happy trio.