The 90s: Teen Spirit
A warning this episode features discussions of Drug Abuse Gun violence and suicide that some listeners may find disturbing. We. Advise stream caution for listeners under thirteen. High School Art Teacher Patti Nielson Flip through a book in the Hall Around Eleven Twenty Am. A quick peaceful moment amidst the chaos of lunch monitor duty. Her kids were good kids. This was a good school. But lunch lunch. Perhaps, that's why when she heard a strange pop coming from outside on the school's front steps, she wasn't overly alarmed. Peering through the Glass Doors Patty. saw a student dressed in black. was waving something around in the direction of the parking lot. It looked like a gun, but that couldn't be it. She glanced at a junior standing nearby Brian Anderson and asked if he knew what was going on out there. Anderson shrugged suggesting probably a cap gun it's probably for video productions. The theory made sense but that did not excuse the disruption. Patty strode towards the glass doors and Brian followed ready to watch her lay down the law. But. Just as they arrived the second set of doors, the young men in black turned around. He smiled. Then he pointed the gun at down. The glass door shattered. That was no cap gun. Patty turned to Brian horrified just in time to see his back arch and his body drop. The Columbine High School massacre had begun before it was over fifteen people would be dead fourteen of them were teenagers. The nineteen nineties were. Over. But the trauma with last these teams a lifetime. This is the dark side of a podcast original a show where we will delve into the seedy underbelly of pop culture icons and historical events. We aim to expose the ugly truth behind cultural moments and public figures. We hold most dear proving that there is always more to the story than meets the eye I'm your host Richard and I'm kate this is our tenth and last episode on the dark side of the nineties. As every decade brings new challenges, a rosy tint started to color these bygone years. But all this nostalgia obscures the more unpleasant bits of nineties history. You can find all episodes of the dark side of and all other park has originals for free on spotify. Over ever you listen to podcasts to the dark side of for free on spotify, just open the APP tap browse and type the dark side of in the search bar. Last week, we talked about beanie babies, the cute toys that adult greed to to a multimillion dollar obsession. Today, we're closing out the season by looking at perhaps the nineteen ninety s biggest legacy of all. Its teenagers. They came of age during a decade that's a lot less charm than we'd like to remember as our past nine episodes of illustrated. that. Made for a difficult sometimes tortured adolescence. If you look closely the clues are there even under the bubbly irony of clueless but by the time you get to columbine there's no need to squint. Coming up. The teenagers that the nineteen ninety s chewed up and spit out. In the Nineteen Eighties John Hughes Movies reigned supreme as the ultimate documents of teen culture. These comedies were positive upbeat portrayals of suburban teen life. They didn't pretend that everything was perfect in the breakfast club, the kids bond over their shared traumas and difficult life circumstances. But the key here is that there are difficulties are a path towards connection as far as the film is concerned plus the problem is in these stories are generally kept to a distinctly teen world where teenage solutions are enough to sort things out. Meaning the issues feel finite. Our characters will leave them all behind. Once that final school bell rings and senior year is up adolescents can be difficult. Hughes admits, but he promises that it'll be nostalgic soon enough. By the nineteen nineties teen media wasn't so sure. Take clueless the nineteen nineties answer to teen comedy. Like Hughes's films it follows a cast of mostly high school kids and young love is a central issue but there are less wholesome undertones. Share. The heroin is sexually harassed by a classmate and robbed at point in a parking lot. Her love interest. The son of her father's ex wife is in college expanding the social scene of the story beyond high schools, walls, and close ups of a teenage party or vomiting into a pool hint at the gross underbelly of Highschool. Life. This is all presented with a light humorous tone. Sheriff famously cries out that her dress is an Eliah and she can't just lay down on the dirty concrete all while a gun is pointed at her head. But the humor here draws on the irony of that response shares situation is actually terrifying. That kind of irony is a central feature throughout the film. In general, the ironic tongue-in-cheek high school comedy genre of the Nineteen Nineties S was likely response to changes in youth culture that hit the mainstream a few years before. It all started in the north west of the US in the mid eighties. Young people mostly around the Seattle area we're experimenting with a new kind of music. They were mixing the sounds of heavy metal and Punk Rock in the context of Lo fi diy production and creating something all their own. They ethos of the scenes surrounding this music was anti establishment and anti-capitalist with a tendency towards anarchy. The scene stirs saw the darkness of mainstream societies materialistic conformism and they rejected that was evident from the music they made from the first heavy aggressive bang of. It was also evident in their style more inspired by lumber Jackson Secondhand dollar axe than New York fashion week. Perhaps, that's how their movement got its name. grunge the word itself denotes dirtiness and something or someone that is distasteful and unacceptable. But the musicians and seen stirs disagreed with mainstream capitalist values and of society saw them as distasteful. That was societies problem grunge teens we're proud to be outsiders. Ironically however, grunge is outsider message actually became mainstream. It all started in the early nineteen nineties on the stages of Seattle's concert halls. The room was dark the stage setup sparse. The three young men performing weren't quitting on dramatic theatrics. Their faces were all hidden by long stringy locks of hair. The drummer was shirtless but otherwise get ups were nondescript. The blonde frontman was wearing a cozy over-sized v neck sweater as he crooned a song called smells like Teen Spirit. Some of the lyrics included. With the lights out, it's less dangerous. Here we are now entertain us I, feel stupid and contagious. All very grunge sentiments. What made this performance different from most grunge shows was the stage it was a big one. Even more unusual was the size of the audience. The Concert Hall was Chock Full of Teens yelling out the lyrics alongside blonde frontman Kurt. COBAIN. And not just in Seattle the scene repeated itself all across America and internationally to the ban these teams were screaming for. Nirvana. Like mo Seattle area grunge bands Nirvana started out with a stint the local label sub pop despite their first nine, thousand, nine, hundred, nine album bleach selling poorly they leveled up to a major record label digi see records in nineteen ninety, their second album nineteen ninety-one. Wind blew up. By. Blew Up. We mean knocked Michael Jackson off the top of the charts. Big. By Christmas nineteen ninety one nevermind was selling approximately four hundred thousand copies a week in the US? To this day, it remains one of the best selling albums of all time. Some of the band's success can be attributed to Kurt cobain's blue eyes and strong jaw. But his thin unassuming frame and baggy thrift store clothes were a far cry from the trappings of your typical. Teen Heartthrob. Meanwhile. Nirvana's sound was certainly in the tradition of grunge which until then had remained a relatively fringe subculture. Many commentators felt the only explanation for the band's out of nowhere success was that Nirvana calibrated grunge at exactly the right frequency at exactly the right time. The band was speaking the language of ninety teens while their predecessors have been railing in vain at eight hundred kids. Kurt cobain was the spokesperson of generation a new generation. The cover art on never mind is a prime example of what exactly cobain was saying it shows a baby swimming underwater reaching for a dollar bill caught on a fishing hook just out of reach. In other words the American promise of eternal growth fiscal and otherwise is a scam. That dollar bill that happy ending is Bate it will always be just out of reach. It's a classic grunge take. But the success of Nirvana indicated that their message resonated with nineties teens much more than grunge had with mainstream eighties, teens, nineties kids were seeing the greed, the obsession, the exploitation, and the dangerously unequal distributions of power that characterized their parents booming economy. Everything we've covered over the course of this season they were living through it. They were aware of it and they didn't like it. Nirvana gave those frustrations of voice a sat down. And a representative. Bill it's notable however that cobain wasn't thrilled with his designated time of spokesman for. As he put it, I'm a spokesman for myself. It just so happens that there's a bunch of people that are concerned with what I have to say I find that frightening at times because I'm just as confused as most people. I don't have the answers for anything I don't want to be a spokesperson. After all spokesperson in a monolithic. Youth Culture an establishment with a leader. That's exactly what grunge was not what it was always against. And according to Butch Vig, the producer of never mind heart of what Nirvana fans loved was exactly that unproductive anti hierarchical message that ambiguity. That's the whole thing what the kids are attracted to in the music is the passion and the fact that cobain doesn't necessarily know what he wants, but he's pissed. Nirvana's sense of anger and rejection without a clear message of what better might look like might have been part of its appeal but this lack of solutions may also have been critical to its downfall. Without, clear goals for the mainstream movement around grunge Nirvana's fans were just that. Fans emulating and singing along with cobain. When cobain fell prey to grunge own internal darkness the righteous anger of those fans was left without an outlet or direction at least until corporations stepped in. To give it one. COMING UP NIRVANA FALLS PREY to heroin and nineties teens to heroin, Chic. Hi It's Richard. Ready to hear about my new favorite spotify original from podcast it's called very presidential with Ashley Flowers and it uncovers the most damning details. Surrounding history's most high profile leaders. Every Tuesday through the twenty twenty election host Ashley Flower shines a light on the darker side of the American. Presidency. From Torrid Love Affairs Contemptible Corruption to shocking. cover-ups and even murder Schill exposed the personal and professional controversies you may never knew existed. You'll hear some wildly true stories about presidents such as Richard Nixon George, Washington Teddy Roosevelt, JFK, and more. Very, presidential highlights the exploits you never learned in history class, but probably should have. Family drama personal vices, dirty secrets. These presidents may have run, but they most certainly can't hide. Follow. Very presidential with Ashley Flowers Freon spotify over ever. You get your podcasts. If you're looking for a great night's sleep look no further than casper defined outrageously comfortable products at not so outrageous prices. Casper has everything you need to build the bed of your dreams, award-winning mattresses, pillows, bedframes, and even a dog bed. Casper's original mattress uses perforated readable phone. So you stay comfortable in cool all night, and now you can experience the Casper Comfort with a brand new mattress. Now, featuring zone support with softer premium foam around the shoulders and firmer foam under the hips waist and lower back you can sleep with proper spinal alignment transform the way you sleep one snooze at a time. GO TO CASPER DOT COM and use code dark side for one hundred dollars off your mattress order. That's code dark side for one hundred dollars off your mattress order terms and conditions apply see casper dot com slash terms. Now, back to the story. Ninety s teenagers had found an art form that perfectly expressed their frustrations with the hypocrisy of American materialism. GRUNGE music. But grunge had its own problems namely heroin. Seattle the movements nucleus was considered Washington's heroin capital. Courtney love the lead singer of the band hole and Kurt cobain's wife explained everybody was doing it everyone everyone all our friends were junkies. It was ridiculous. In this town did dope. This aspect of the scene came out into the open in Nineteen ninety-four just a few years after Nirvana mated big. That year twenty, seven year old Kurt, cobain died of suicide. He had heroin in his bloodstream. Prior to his death cobaine had actually spoken against drug use as he put it in one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, two interview with Rolling Stone All drugs are a waste of time they destroy your memory and your self respect and everything that goes along with your self esteem there are no good at all. But this public statement was a farce. cobain struggled with chronic bronchitis, an undiagnosed chronic stomach condition and depression. He'd been a cannabis users since he was a teenager and regularly abused prescription drugs as a way to self medicate according to Nirvana Basis Chris Nova sillage cockbain was really into getting left up drugs acid, any kind of drug. COBAIN's death broad issues around addiction to the front and center of the mainstream press. This could have been a helpful productive conversation for a country that was experiencing marked increases in prescription drug abuse heroin addiction itself. Outside of the grunge scene was just a burgeoning mainstream issue at the time and serious conversations about the drug could have helped keep levels low. Unfortunately. That's not how the reactions to cobain's death laid out. There were a host of conversations about the twenty seven club, the phenomena of remarkably talented musicians dying at the age of twenty seven. Even, cobain's mother chimed in famously telling reporters. Now, he's gone and joined that stupid club. Then there were the theories that cobain had been murdered according to some by his own wife Oh front woman courtney love. She was also blamed for him hooked on heroin in the first place. In one, thousand, nine, hundred to interview with the couple accused love of using heroin during her pregnancy and love has stated that the media attention contributed to cobain's mental instability and her own struggles with addiction. Ultimately, the conspiracies were a distraction and the mainstream media failed to productively examined drug abuse and mental health following cobain's death. Teams were left with was a cobain sized hole in their lives one they were desperate to fill with whatever would bring them closer to their lost hero. They were already imitating cobain even before his death teens across America had adopted grungy fashion choices. Worn flannels, combat boots stringy hair poking out from under knit ski hats. Corporations had already taken note. They started selling priced pre worn flannels ripped jeans. They even branded hair gel as grunge. All at a delectable prophet. But after cobain's death, many teens wanted to get even closer to him. In, this context perhaps it's not surprising that the fashion industry started to modify another element of the Seattle grunge look. Stick thin dark circled heroin user or as it was alarmingly dubbed Heroin Chic. Eighty supermodels had skyrocketed to fame. Thanks to their glowing relatively healthy looks. But by the mid nineties that had changed. Kate Moss was the biggest model on the scene and she was beloved by the Fashion Industry for her pale skin, dark circles and ultra slender frame. As one commentator, put it. The look is your was a nihilistic vision of beauty that mirrored the wasted silhouettes and pinched faces of drug addicts. And once the fashion industry had staked their claim on heroin chic it wasn't only grunge kids who wanted to look like cobain. Every team. Between Nineteen Ninety, two and nineteen ninety-seven recreational drug use amongst high school students ballooned climbing from twenty seven point one percent to forty two point, four percent among seniors. Meanwhile, the incidents of eating disorders rose amongst teenage girls and boys alike. Even for teens who weren't struggling with an eating disorder dieting was the name of the game share. The straight laced heroin of Nineteen ninety-five clueless was dedicated to keeping thin working out constantly and carefully watching what she ate as she put it at one point in the film, I, feel like such a Heifer I two bowls of special k three pieces of Turkey Bacon, a handful of popcorn five peanut butter. And like three pieces of liquorice. Of course, dieting was nothing new to American women or even teenage girls. But. In the era of Kate Moss, the desired look had changed from slender to something even less healthy. Now, the goal was Waif as in an unhealthy child. The grunge aesthetic had been completely commodified and in the process it had become poisonous. Meanwhile, grunge music faded out of the mainstream in the wake of cobain's death and other drug related losses in the Seattle scene and beyond bans were struggling to keep body and soul in one piece much less put out an album. All. That was left of grunge at least on the national stage was heroin. Chic. So teams did what the corporations begged them to. They embraced it. When nineteen year old Fiona Apple released her debut album title in Nineteen Ninety six she seemed poised to profit off images of Druggie kids just like the corporations. The video for her nineteen ninety-seven song criminal featured her stick thin body writhing around on the floor surrounded by what appeared to be mostly passed out teens the bags under her eyes or enormous. The reference to nineties youth culture and voyeurism couldn't have been clearer. Teens watching the video play and replay on MTV understood that reference after all, they just watch some of their favourite stars experienced the most destructive kinds of fame. But Fiona apple wasn't a corporate product and when she won best female video at the nineteen ninety-seven video music awards, she proved that. She went onstage to claim her award and made the following statement. I didn't prepare a speech, but I'm glad that I didn't because I'm not going to do this like everybody else what I want to say as you shouldn't model your life about what you think that we think is cool and what we're wearing and what we're saying, go with yourself, go with yourself. This was real grunge energy not its corporate, standing a return to the original grunge ethos that said, be yourself fight against norms and don't look for a spokesperson. Unfortunately this didn't go too well for Fiona Apple New York Rock writer luck called it one of the most ridiculous soliloquies ever to be witnessed at an MTV awards event. Other critics were equally harsh. They panned apple as Bratty and self important. They even called her a hypocrite. Here, she was profiting off the music industry and playing into the aesthetic of heroin chic just as much as the next wave on MTV she should be thankful for the support of the industry and if she wasn't well. As. Easily. Be. Shut out. That's not to say her career was ruined in the process of returning to grunge roots. She became a hero for many young people. If there was an initial whiff of hypocrisy around her speech vans didn't care especially when apple stood by her statement despite the backlash. apologized. Many young people saw a real grunge rebel in her they were moved by her message of independence. Still, the negative press that followed apple's via, may's speech was telling mainstream society didn't want another cobain. It wanted to get back to the days when teens fell into line, bought what the corporation sold to them and listen to their parents. Unfortunately, whatever John Hughes eighties normal they were thinking of the nineties had scrapped that possibility. As. The decade came to a close an appalling new normal reared its ugly head. The bloody parting gift of an already difficult decade rocked the nation. And stated its adolescence? Coming up Colorado's columbine high. School is the site of a massacre. This episode of the dark side of is brought to you by simply safe simply safe was designed to be easy to use while protecting your whole home twenty, four seven you can order it online with the click of a button. I thought they did an excellent job of explaining how to install it all. It took just a few minutes to place the sensors and plug it in I, connected it to my Wifi, and then suddenly boom my home was protected. Not, only is the simply safe systems sleek looking, but the little beeps it makes when I opened a door or window a rather nice to hear makes me feel safe something else I love is the Cameras Wide Lens when I'm away I can practically see the entire living room and that gives me some much needed peace of mind. If you're looking for home security, simply safe was named best overall home security of twenty twenty by us, news and World Report, and there twenty, four, seven, professional monitoring and emergency dispatch starts at fifty cents a day head to simplisafe dot com slash dark side, and get a free hd camera that simplisafe dot com slash dark side to make sure they know that our shows sent you. Now back to the story. In the mid nineteen, ninety s Seattle based grunge was succeeded by the heroin chic grunge aesthetic. Many parents seem to prefer it that way at least it was just a look even if glorified some of the worst parts of the grunge movement? Kids could die at a bit by an overpriced flannel and still respect their parents views on progress professionalism and the importance of old fashioned American values. But no amount of corporatized grunge could bring back those happy days of John Hughes Breakfast Club especially, not after April Twentieth Nineteen Ninety nine. The. Morning dawned like any other spring day in Columbine, Colorado kids packed up their backpacks parents hustled them out. The door teens were gobbling down pop tarts says they scrambled across the lawn hoping they'd make it to columbine high school before the first morning bell rang. Sophomore Craig, Scott, and his sister Rachel Junior had a quick squabble on the ride to school when they finally arrived Craig hopped out and slammed his door then he ran for the glass doors of the main, columbine? Building. The first few classes of the day were typical. Craig's teachers rush through their curriculum. Aware of the impending summer break by eleven twenty, a m craig was in the library along with many of his fellow students. Then they heard a strange popping sound coming from outside. At first they assumed it was a senior prank could be someone setting off firecrackers. That might be fun. Just then a teacher ran into the room she was frantic and screaming. There were two students outside with guns they were shooting at other students everyone had to hide now. After a moment of tense confusion, Craig and all the other kids in the room under tables and into out of the way corners. To, Columbine seniors dressed in black trenchcoats swept into the library. One carried a shotgun, the other a semiautomatic. But the boys didn't start by shooting I. They mocked their classmates. In terrified horror Craig realized this was a game. When the shooter said anybody with a white hat or a sports emblem on it is. Dead. Greg. Pulled the cap off his head and tucked it under his shirt. Then, he prayed. Because the boys weren't jus- joking around. After they taunted each of their victims. They shot. This went on for what felt like an eternity enough -ality by twelve o eight PM less than an hour after the violence began both shooters had killed themselves. Craig survived uninjured. But twenty one others had been shot and wounded and twelve of his classmates in one teacher were dead. Amongst those killed was Craig's sister Rachel. Last seen on the wrong side of a slammed the car door. The Columbine High School massacre, rocked Colorado and the nation. There had been shootings by students in American schools before. But too many columbine felt like something else entirely. More than anything the nation and the survivors wanted to know why this had happened. Why had these kids died? Why had to high school students turn merger into a game. But the perpetrators were dead just like their victims. It was up to the living to piece together some answers. Investigators turned to the information left behind by the shooter's Columbine Seniors Eric Harris and Dylan klebold. They began by logging onto an AOL website. Harris, it started back in Nineteen ninety-six. The site which functioned in part as a blog seemed to document fairly normal teenage behavior thoughts at first. But beginning in nineteen, ninety seven, there was a shift in Harris's tone. He started posting angry sometimes violent frustrations. For example, you know what I hate when there is a group standing in the middle of a hallway or walkway, and they are just standing there talking and blocking my way get out of the way or I'll bring a frigging sod off shotgun to your house and blow your snotty head off. By the end of Nineteen ninety-seven, the blog contained instructions for how to make a bomb and by nineteen ninety-eight, the threats had gotten even more specific. One read. All I. WanNa do is kill and injure as many of you as I can especially a few people like Brooks Brown. Brooks Brown was another student at Columbine mentioning his name had drawn some initial attention to Harris's blog back in nineteen ninety eight. Brown's parents brought the site to police. We're an investigator wrote up an affidavit on the sites alarming contents. But that affidavit was never submitted to a judge and Harris's behavior went unchecked. Investigators would also find journals by both Harris and Dylan klebold. They contain detailed plans for the massacre and plenty of evidence of violent impulses. In, retrospect similar interests were even clear in the teenagers schoolwork they chose to research Nazis and Charles Manson. All of this painted a heartbreaking picture of missed opportunities for intervention but still none of these findings indicated a clear motive. The FBI. Concluded that there wasn't one not in so far as a motive implies a rational goal. They chuck the massacre up to mental illness according to their psychological profiles of the teenagers. Eric Harris was a psychopath and Dylan klebold a depressive. As the supervisor in charge of the investigation would put it. I believe Eric went to the school to kill and didn't care if he died while Dylan wanted to die and didn't care if others died as well. The FBI's conclusions gave a shattered nation something to work with as every headline across America grappled with the tragedy. At least they knew what kind of teens might be prone to this kind of violence. But for many, it wasn't enough. There were plenty of depressed teens who weren't murdering anyone. There were even psychopaths that abstained from killing. What was different here? Several popular theories emerged. One centered around the fact that according to some of their classmates both shooters were mercilessly bullied at Columbine. They were called gay slurs and had food thrown at them in general. They were social outcasts. It was speculated that perhaps this bullying combined with mental illness had led to the devastating massacre. Other theories centered around by violence in ninety s culture accusations were thrown at everything from musician Marilyn Manson, who's band featured lyrics about violence and violent impulses to video game manufacturers. Harris had been an avid fan of first person shooter games. These theories led to a veritable panic amongst parents as the decade wound to a close they were starting to look back on the nineties and wonder what had become of America. Had they failed their kids? Unfortunately, the nation's frenetic fear and concern didn't materialize into a clear prevention plan. Parents of some of the victims filed lawsuits against video game manufacturers, but these suits were unsuccessful on April twenty ninth ten senators requested that interscope records stopped distributing music that glorified violence namely the music of Marilyn Manson. Likely. As a result Manson, did cancel his upcoming tour dates but he also published an incisive response to the senators in Rolling Stone magazine. It was titled Columbine Whose Fault is it. In the article Manson drew attention to a much more concrete actionable facilitator of columbine than the Amorphous idea of violence in the culture that is America's gun culture and loose guns. If those mentally ill gene boys hadn't been told by the NRA, that real-life guns were a fabulous toy and hadn't been able to get their hands on real guns as miners than columbine would have never happened regardless of what video games Harris was playing. Manson's points resonated across America. And the government did respond with some minor reformed gun control law. But the gun control lobby pushed back and as the decade since have shown, gun control has continued to be a never ending controversy. One. That gets a heart wrenching boost every time there's a new school shooting meaning often. Instead of marking a tragic and shameful outlier in American history columbine became a model for a host of other school shooters. As of April two, thousand nineteen, there have been over to hundred forty school shootings since April Twentieth Nineteen Ninety nine not including shootings at colleges and universities if guns have stayed as part, of American, culture school shootings have become just as much as a part of that culture. That's a sour inheritance for nineteen nineties teenagers. They were the ones who had to live through the trauma of. Columbine. Most directly. The ones who had to go back to school in the aftermath of the massacre cautiously peering around every door before entering. School for many of them became an atmosphere of fear rather than a place to learn and grow. And yet the adults, the people who were supposed to protect their children failed to enact meaningful change. They left their teenagers to struggle with making that change themselves as they graduated into Adult Hood in the new millennium. Not, to say nineties, teens headed all bad like any decades teenagers they experienced the ups as well as the downs of adolescence and they did benefit from a booming economy whatever they may have thought of it. The decade also marked the production of some of the best team media to date including landmark shows like my so called life and freaks and Geeks both of which explored the trials and tribulations of teen life from a relatable perspective. But the fact that racism in high schools made it onto the little screen didn't nullify that racism. The fact that teens were able to see adolescent sex drinking and homelessness on TV didn't make the TRAUMAS of their own lives disappear. We've heard too much about the dark arteries of the nineteen nineties to leave this season on a happy note. Every facet of the decade had a dark side from its chat rooms to its idols to the food on it's dinner tables. And no one was more inundated in that darkness than nineties teens. They had no prior frame of reference. They simply came of age in a very confusing time. So next time you find yourself clicking on a mean that only ninety kids will understand take it's nostalgia with a grain of salt. Or as the nineties would have it a grain of sarcasm. Thanks for listening to the dark side of we'll be back next week with a brand new season. You can find more episodes of the dark side of for free on spotify, not only despite if I already have of your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker just open the APP and type the dark side of in the search bar. We'll see next time. The dark side of was created by Max Cutler is a podcast studios original executive producers include Maxon Ron Cutler sound designed by Trent Williamson with production assistance by Ron Shapiro Carly Madden and Travis Clark. This episode of the dark side of was written by Nora Battelle with writing assistance by Cake Gallagher and stars Kate Leonard and Richard Rossner. Hi It's Richard and nine back to remind you to check out the new spotify original from park test very presidential with Ashley Flowers. Every Tuesday through the twenty twenty election host Ashley flowers shines a light on the darker side of the American presidency exposing wildly true stories about history's most high profile leaders. There's torrid love affairs, shocking blackmail schemes, and even murder. I think you're really going to get a kick out of it to hear more follow very presidential with Ashley Flowers Free On spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.