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The Waffle House Index


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Most storms bounce off the coast and head back to see the when Florence arrived in mid-september just kind of parked itself. Over Wilmington North Carolina in stayed there. For days, the rain will barely let up here on this coast further twenty four hours had a stroke flooding with more than three feet of rain. Rivers are rising today throughout North Carolina. It's all this rain from Florence Russia's downstream. The death toll from this business insiders. Dan Brown arrived in Wilmington day after landfall streetlight is kind of the streetlights working now, and I see a few light foles on but pretty much all the bizarre dark, you know, summer boarded up, the rain was drenching. The wind was picking up all the businesses around him or closed except for one beacon in the dark the only lights on our this waffle house. Dan, made his way past the line of people waiting for a table about fifteen people standing outside and headed inside the walls inside is packed. It's an oasis. I'm spilling aches of. It's you know, there's a little a little little hint of syrup as well. I think so that's kind of what I'm smelling maybe a little coffee too. I can't tell but families are jammed into booths crowded around tables. You know, there's about I'd say, maybe a dozen line workers and cooks and chefs behind the counter, they're all running around cooking and frying and everything. All this is literally news during the storm. One restaurant was still serving up hot food today as the storm is nearly upon them or. Nope. Hooters, no wings today. Thursday, saving grace, the waffle house. But this is not a local story of a waffle house. Braving store the company activated stormcenter to monitor Florence which is of course, now category. Two hurricane, and that's because waffle houses are known for staying open through disasters. Newscasters went live to waffle house. Head. Quarters like, it was their weather center to come back. Twelve allows spokesman Warner joins us. What what what what are you hearing right now, what is your index? Tell you right now. Neil. We had about two hundred thirty restaurants in the storm's path we have seventeen closed right now. And it's not just the news using waffle houses to gauge a store your something. We haven't really heard of before the waffle house index. It's an actual thing female users it to tracks storm conditions if a waffle house restaurant in areas closed than thirties. No the conditions. There are especially bad. So I wanted to know what's the deal with waffle houses and hurricanes. From business insider and Stitcher. This household name. Brands, you know, stories you don't I'm damp. Donald. Today. The waffle house index for years FEMA has tracked waffle house closures to help with determine where to send disaster aid. How did this old fashioned twenty four hour breakfast joint become so good at recovering from disasters. Why is it have a storm center at its headquarters and later on our customer service segment? We'll investigate are the really fifty seven varieties of Heinz state with us. Part of what makes all this. So surprising is that a waffle house? Does not look like the kind of place that could coordinate a sophisticated disaster response. It's a little shoebox of a restaurant. It has forty siege. Top the grill is out front and how we have a high bar where folks can sit there and see their food cooked, and it's really a a small gathering place for the community. Hat Warner is the waffle house PR guy. The new stations called during Florence even though we have two thousand restaurants, each one has its own unique personality, and really they fit into whatever community that they are serving that's kind of the role we have played throughout our our history. Going back in nineteen fifty five. Waffle house is a distinctly southern American institution. Red bricks yellow sign a logo that looks like it's made of scrabble tiles. But we're twenty four hour restaurant. We've been twenty four hours from the start. So waffle house is different things to different people at different times of day lunchtime waffles after little league, two AM drunk hash Browns for college students, political talk over dinner. Its biggest sales day is Christmas. It's become like a microcosm of American culture where you might see celebrities. The best photo, it's Kim on you. John and Chrissy all decked out in their formal gear, and they're chilling inside of awful house like births baby girl in the front seat of the car, then they drove to this. Welcome house parking lot to wait for parachuting mass shooting at a Tennessee. Waffle house threats are investigating to bomb threats that happened this morning on a waffle house on pine avenue and making the first hand, violent weather. Waffle house started. Near Atlanta, and then expanded outward from there. So most of its restaurants are in the southeast. So if there's a hurricane in the Atlantic, it's probably going to hit a waffle house. And then after the storm waffle house is the place you go. A little breakfast, scrambled eggs and hash Browns covered. And smothered sounds pretty good. This is Craig Fugate. It's good food. That's hot. It's fast. There's nothing pretentious about a wealthy house. Craig has spent his whole career responding to disasters many of them big storms in Florida. He ran emergency management for the state, and then became the head of the Federal Emergency Management agency FEMA under President Obama Craig has never worked for waffle house because even go to them that often but for years now when there's a storm people tell him how the local restaurant is doing because became a shorthand. I guess because it was associated with me. I would get a lot of feedback during storms about people telling me the status of their wall piles that's because of something that happened in two thousand and four from we were hit by four hurricanes and the first of which was hurricane Charley which hit in August back. Then Craig was in charge of Florida's emergency management division and hurricane Charley was a real emergency. One of the strongest storms ever to hit the US one hundred and fifty mph winds at times, and it was part of Craig's job to drive. Around the disaster zone and assess how bad things were as he was driving. He kept seeing streaks have green in the ground. You kind of wonder world aren't just go. And you started realizing that these green streaks you were seeing these long streaks of green were actually all the green argest at were up and down these rose the oranges were like shrapnel. One house have been absolutely pummeled by flying fruit. Every window blown out after lots of moments like that Craig and his crew retired. They've been eating 'em are ease meals ready to eat like they use in space. Shuttles or a battlefield and we got on the interstate. We actually turned south and drive south to find something open. It was probably about five o'clock in the morning just to get something to eat because we were going to be gone all day, and they had no idea we'd ever get a chance to grab a bite. As we went south. We found the wall files it was open, and it's in large part because of this very breakfast that we now pay so much attention to waffle houses and disasters. Craig went in. And the first thing that seemed a little off was the menu. It was photocopied was this. Well, we lost power. We got power bag, but we lost everything in the freezer. So all we have is what's on the menu. Craig was there with a guy named tad from the national guard and Bannon meteorologist, I think tad was trying to order cheese grits and cheese grits actually became grits with a slab of American cheese on top of it wasn't exactly what he finally remembered his cheese grits. But that doesn't sound good. It was what they had, you know, in a disaster. You can't be too choosy about stuff. The fact that we were eating a hot meal sitting down with a roof over our head was actually a vast improvement than what most people were facing that next day. So the next day they went to a different waffle house. And same deal may McGrath menu. But the guy cooking looked familiar. Yeah. It was the same guy. Yeah. It was the same cook same as the first restaurant. He's driving a beat up car. But he had a back of a bumper sticker said worked, and I'm like work. That's like waffle house. Emergency response team. I thought it was Joe. It's at this point that Craig and his team realized waffle house is different. This is a restaurant that really really cares about staying open, or at least reopening soon as possible after disaster. The next day he and his team had to give a presentation about how Florida was recovering at the last minute. They threw in a PowerPoint slide about the status of the waffle houses. All this was just kind of based on observations kind of a little bit of humor in slide deck and a relation that, you know, this is a useful tool. And this right here is the moment, the so-called waffle house index was born. The wall files was closed spread. If the waffle house is open with a limited menu. It's yellow and to wall files is open. It's got a full menu screen. Here's the thing about waffle houses. There are a lot of them. So you can be pretty sure there'll be one in a storm's path, and they're often on highway off-ramps show, the kind of shorthand was if you get there and waffles is open has got a full menu. Keep going it's not that bad. If you got there and a waffle house is on a limited menu. We probably got power outages and a lot of impacts to the population. If you get there in the storm's close close to waffle house, and they're not open. That's a pretty big area. And that's where you need to focus your search and rescue operations, your security missions, and the media life safety type activities was kind of informal shorthand. It may have been informal. They may have been unconventional. But Craig and his team started using the index almost immediately in two thousand four we hit got hit by Francis. Those basically twenty days after Charley made landfall and then eleven days after. Francis. Made landfall we had Ivan hit Pensacola region, the panhandle. And then we had gene hit back on the southeast coast. This is kind of how the index started getting used he had to give a lot of presentations that year. So the team started calling them waffle house briefings, in fact, when I was going through my vetting process with the White House. They had heard about the wall files briefings, President Obama had just taken office after Craig success in Florida Obama picked him to head up FEMA. So they called me up. And they said, hey, we need to know what your arrangement is with waffle house or you on retainer, or you know, what kind of compensation. Do you have an agreement with them? There was no relationship. He never even talked to waffle house of what are you talking about by the time of his Senate confirmation hearing? It was all sorted out. Good morning. The hearing will now come to order today. Our committee will consider the nomination w Craig Fugate to be an administrator of the has a home spun. Florida way of describing how he handles his professional duties, he calls it. The waffle house test usually around here. Waffly ming. Let me sit your opening statement. You did not welcome. That Senate humor for you from Bill, Nelson and Joe Lieberman. So what I got FEMA? I didn't start out with a waffle house index. It kinda followed me he'd get questions about it. Newspapers wrote the occasional article, but it came back up again in Joplin in twenty eleven when a multiple vortex tornado barreled through the Missouri city, the damage was widespread almost two hundred people died right after Craig went into assess the damage he noticed the Starbucks was closed, but next door the waffle house was humming. It was during this time running FEMA that Craig finally heard from waffle house directly, and I never met with never communicate with them other than frequenting restaurants during disastrous spots and they brought their president up their chief attorney their CFO. And I thought man I must. I hope they're not mad at me. And they came in. And they were just they just wanted to meet with me and say how much they pre she added that we we had used them as their index and all stuff, and I said, you know, how do you guys do this? I mean, what kind of here, I am a fan of what kind of command post, you have you know, you have an ESE. How do you deal all this stuff? And they looked at me says, no, we don't do any of that stuff. How do they do all this stuff? How do they rushed into storm zones and get their restaurants up and running so fast. That's what I asked. Pat, Warner the waffle house PR guy. I've been reward class for nineteen years, and I'm part of our storm response team. And he told me it started after hurricane Hugo back in nineteen eighty nine. That's really where we saw we had to take it to a level where we're preparing more in the past. It was more of a local thing the local operator dealt with Hugo covered in unusually large area, which meant to made a bigger tent in waffle houses operations during the storm. Waffle house headquarters apparently called up a restaurant in the path of Hugo. It was hard to get through after a lot of trying. They got one landline connection to work. So I just kept the call going the whole storm after that. While full house got serious about storm response. We have several different what we call jumped teams. The the main jump team for jump teams a group needs. The people who rushed to the scene of a storm. It's a mix of employees from the area, plus top officials from Atlanta, typically, restaurant managers or district managers. Sometimes we'll take in some associates some cooks. They will go in to a market right after a storm. Waffle house has detailed checklists and plans. They know how to airlift people and supplies, and they bring in generators food is fastest possible. It really is kind of like a command center at headquarters. Hey sheriff. How's it going even days or weeks after a storm you might find Pat talking to a local official like he did in the middle of our interview that was actually the sheriff of dowdy county in Georgia. We're checking on curfew who's calling me back to tell me lifting the curfew. So I had to take that call sorry. I asked him why waffle house bothers with all this. They could just take closed a little longer like the other businesses because our folks Lou in that community, but I think is made from a business decision on a lot of companies have less just wait it out. And it's a lot easier to get the insurance check then come in later and open up for us. We take the other other way that we are private company. And we think that we need to open up quickly for for the customers in our associates and. So we will put the resources in place. I thought about this a lot. I don't think that's just corporate S. There are reasons why waffle house is like this. It really does seem true that they care about their communities in workers. They don't have shareholders to worry about and their practical reasons, they actually own all these restaurants. They're not franchises like most fast food businesses. They have the power to decide when and how to reopen and they like doing it. There's a Drennan here. The staff wanna be on these jump teams, plus waffle house never advertises their storm response. They don't really advertise at all. It was really newspapers and TV that ran with the idea to the point where waffle house now expects the media to call when there's a storm. So how does all this work in practice in a moment, we go back into the storm to find out stay with us. This episode of household name is brought to you by American Express see business differently. See big business expenses as big opportunities. See no room to maneuver as room to keep growing. 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Making phone calls is glued on four computer monitors one showing live security camera feed from the Wilmington waffle house one. We know the restaurant has power if the cameras are working, but to also see how busy they are. Sometimes we can see is or any damage to the restaurant. So that's up on one screen of the middle screen. Typically, another monitor has a color coded map showing all the restaurants in the path of the storm of read their closed, we can show which ones around generator. And so that gives us an overall look at the at the area as storms coming on. We have a service with shows the storm track and live. Weather radars. We'll have that up. The forecast is just come in in the war room team is getting update to clock forecast. Just came out. Big big your statement. The forecast. Turns some more from the two o'clock. We're reaching out to different Benjamin teams and different stage to coordinate. How many people they have their packing their bags or their basic waiting to get the call? But we go ahead and identify who will be in that first wave of jump teams. We reach out to our management team in Virginia. And they started assembling their team members that will be ready to go in a basically within about a twenty four hour notice. The jump teams that comprised of company staff who volunteer they charter planes across the region in organized carpools they arranged for hotel rooms for every jump team member. So they're ready to roll in the soon as the storm came through absolutely brutality in North Carolina. There's no other word sobering flash. Flood emergency over almost the entire eastern half of that state. Now you've been when Florence came in. It looks like we had twenty restaurants initially that were closed because of power shoes pats. Actually reporting all this directly to FEMA. They have an online meeting room now where private companies can report how things are going whether they're open if they can get supplies delivered. It's something Craig Fugate setup inspired by how waffle house and other businesses responded to storms in through it all the waffle house war room is in all serious. We have a Bill in the stormcenter when someone on the team says something funny. They ring it somebody will throw it a movie line or something like that to kind of ease the tension like just today we were quoting airplane the movie too bad week to give up sniffing glue. Rentable Seinfeld quotes. It's easy to take the resumes. You just don't know how to hold. But you have to have the car that happens a lot where we show up in the cars aren't ready. That's a quote that gets thrown our lot. When when we think we have cars in a certain place in in our folks show up, and and they're not there. On the ground in North Carolina. The storm is wild the monkey junction store in Wilmington. It's on generator power, thanks to a waffle house employee named Lindsay westcott and the jump team. She's overseeing her day job is running training and culture at waffle house. But this day, she's doing a little of everything. We have some fun. Expediting waiting tables right now, I'm making coffee swinging get off at this moment. The waffle house barely above read on Craig Fugate SR index. The only thing they've served on morning is ham sandwiches. But that's about to change. About to go to limited menu. So we opened up the first hour to try to get our bearings. And we're making all the prep right now. So we have about eight people in the back making all the press. So that we can I think we're going to in the next five minutes, the people working at the registers are slammed. The line is out the door. These are hungry people. Heard that this was the only place open to e and so we've been eating like crackers granola bars couple days, so. Nice meal. What all kinds of vegetables. Also would hot sauce really wish they had the? Yeah. Cough yet coffee. They just said to me would thank you so much got ticket by this point the restaurant is at yellow on the index. And we're looking to know to green soon once we get a few more product items this weekend, and we should be able to go to green which means they'll be able to serve just about anything you'd want. We don't have pancakes. Yeah. But yeah. But this moment at another waffle house in the area. The company's CEO has arrived Walt Amer. But Pat says you might not even notice all our name tags have first name. So they just they just as Walt they don't realize the CEO, and he's not coming in, you know, with the fanfare in an entourage. She comes in by himself for us. That's natural. That's just how it is a part of our we call our homegrown management. Few weeks later, the CEO would take out trash in Florida after hurricane Michael what we call the dumpster dance, where he was trying to pack down the garbage. When Craig Fugate got to FEMA, he tried looking at other brands and other regions. He noticed there were a whole lot of Dunkin donuts or Dunkin's. We're calling them now, but they weren't so great at reopening after storms so for now, the waffle house index is the one that counts. And when the next hurricane hits, Pat and his team activate the storm center and the jump teams will jump and the people will get their waffles, but not pancakes, sir. This is a waffle house. Coming up. This Hines really have fifty seven varieties. Has your company outgrown QuickBooks are shared spreadsheets manual processes and legacy systems, costing you time and money introducing net suite by oracle the business management software. 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Sweep dot com slash household. Thank you for calling customer service where we answer all your burning questions about brands. This call may be recorded for podcast purposes. Hi household. Name customer service. Can I have your name? Please. Out. And you have a question for us. What is your question? I do. So I have long been a fan of condiments and one of the ones that I see the most and everywhere catch up usually an only catch up, and I've noticed that there's a pint fifty seven the number fifty seven has always been a question for me. What is the fifty seven in Heinz fifty seven was it mean to be a fan of condiments? Oh, man. What does it mean to be a fan of condiment? I put condoms on everything to me, a salad sandwich, pizza, whatever isn't complete unless I can dip it in something. So while I don't necessarily get my pizza in catch up. I do catch up or pretty much anything and catch up. Well, I think I have someone in our headquarters here who can answer your question if you could just hold on the line, please. Okay. Hey, my on high. I have found someone who I think can answer your question. It's our producer MS records. Hello. Hi, anna. So first of all let me say that you came to the right person, Dan before I really started doing any research into this. I took a quiz online. Like most good millennials to see how much I know about Heinz history. And my guesses actually got me a ten out of ten apparently. I'm a Heinz. No, it all that's what the result said. And I should relish my knowledge and impress my friends. You just did that to make me happier. You love the puns a can't catch up with you. But after covering from that ego boost I actually started to do some research into your question. And so like any good researcher after doing the quiz? I turn to Google and found a reliable source. It's called the Heinz history center. Surely the catch museum can help me out with your question. But then I watched the news, and you guys it's funny. People who come from out of town think it's the catch up museum, right? So it turns out the Heinz history center is actually the Senator John Heinz history center, but the Senator was also the great grandson of the founder of the h j Heinz company Henry John Heinz. So there's catch up in his blood, and there's a catch up exhibit and his museum I called the exhibit's Curators, Emily, ruby. And she told me that I wasn't the only one to get that confused. The actually had Ed Sheeran come here when he was in town because he's always loved Hines. He has a Heinz label tattoo on his arm. Choke museum. It's book. It's. And so I think he was a little disappointing. 'cause I think he thought the whole building was dedicated to Hines and Heinz ketchup. So he went through the whole exhibit and even posted a video on Instagram playing this song over clips of him looking at various bottles of ketogenic leaving us. He's just like you. But anyway, that was a lot of lead up to just say that the real answer to your question is that the fifty seven on Heinz ketchup bottles means drummer will nothing nothing. No, nothing. Well, it means nothing. But of course, there's a story behind it. And there are a lot of people who want to guess that. It means something and it actually did start to mean something overtime. But let's start with the story about Henry John Heinz his first food company went into bankruptcy in eighteen seventy five but his second food company. The nearly identical h j Heinz company was fairly successful. Just a few years later Hines wanted to keep it that way. So he's thinking about marketing plans for all of his different products story that is commonly told us that he's writing elevated train in New York City. There's a date of eighteen ninety three we think it's probably closer to eighteen ninety six and he sees this trolley advertisement for Twenty-one varieties of shoes and he likes this idea of number. There are a lot of guesses for why he chose the number fifty seven. Some people say five was his lucky number and seven was his wife's. So he just put them together. Maybe the seven had religious connotations, or maybe he just liked the way the fifty seven looked or sounded I had a guy come up to me to talk and say that he knew because his grandfather was friends with Hines that it was because the streets in Pittsburgh at the time ended up fifty six going up the river the Allegheny river where he lived. So there's all kinds of theories out there way. So I just wanna make this very clear, so he just made up fifty seven varieties has no relation to reality at all just out of thin air. Oh my gosh. The mystique becomes more important than the actual. Meaning that's Emily's colleague at the history center, Brian Butko. So as I said Fifty-seven means nothing, but maybe it means everything or almost everything because the one thing the fifty seven definitely does not mean is the actual number of varieties or products the company offered at the time when Hines came up with the number fifty seven he already had more than sixty products on his shelf. Right. What the? Sound and look of it meant more to him than the number. And that's the difference between a company that sinks. They're bragging by saying, oh, we have one hundred fifty seven an innovator who sees the value in the sound and look of something easily grasp -able and the number fifty seven has stuck around even as that number of Heinz varieties has reached into the hundreds and thousands. So one of the things that I think is funny, though, is like you my on when I think of Heinz today, I only think of catch up it's my go-to for hot dogs and hamburgers. And I know that there are other products too. But I don't really think about what those products are. Because the only thing that I consume is catch-up so in diving into the fifty seven varieties. I was intrigued find out what the other fifty six varieties allegedly. Are thankfully, I found. This one ad from nineteen twenty four it shows a map of the world with lines showing where the fifty seven varieties originated. And includes a list of the fifty seven varieties in a teeny. Tiny font very small I had to zoom in on it weighed. So he made up fifty seven. But then they started actually making lists of fifty seven products to fit into his fake number. I guess they chose their favorites of the products that they had to put onto this advertisement. But yeah that list is just a random can't trust. Anyone can. Anyway, you might be surprised to hear that tomato. Ketchup is listed as number forty eight on the list with prepared mustard right behind it at forty nine number one on the list is baked beans with pork and tomato sauce number. Fifty seven is tarragon vinegar, the rest of the products are varieties of preserves and jellies and pickles, and gherkins and vinegars and soups and pastas, I've never seen most of these products at the supermarket. I go to in New York in the exhibit, some of the most popular products are the ones that we don't have here in the United States, but are sold in Europe. Yeah. I mean when I go visit family in England. I'm always amazed at just how many hind products. There are on the shelves in England that don't exist in the US. And I think the weirdest one to me is salad cream which looks like somebody combined salad dressing with manny's, which I think it looks that way. Because that is what it is. Maybe that's just not popular here in the US. Another thing that people. Love to see this exhibit. Of course is the horseradish the Hines horseradish, which was the first product that Henry John Heinz ever made from his family's land and Sharp's Berg, Pennsylvania. He was just eight years old, and he already knew how to market the product. He put it in a clear jar so customers could see that he had the whitest purest roots in his horseradish. This was innovative at the time. His marketing schemes only got better from there and most of them after eighteen ninety six that year that he was on that trolley in New York included, the number fifty seven the first electric sign in New York was a forty three foot six story tall pickle where the flat iron building is now with fifty seven varieties written underneath, aren't you? Glad you called customer service. My own. So happy I call a customer service because idea of six storyteller pickle as potentially my dream like catch up his fine. But pickles are like twenty steps above that literally story. He also put an ad with a large fifty seven on an Atlantic City. Pier. He put these massive cement fifty seven's on hillsides close to railroad lines. The story behind the giant concrete letters that. He was okay. If people didn't in the community didn't like it because then he would turn that to an opportunity and Russian and apologize and make up for it and become a hero to the community. Whereas again, typical company would either bend and go away embarrassed or that fight it. But he knew quite well that everything is an opportunity to promote your business. And so if the concrete's letter stay great if they complain about them that's just as well. So it wasn't just on the products. It was all over the advertising all over the bottle ING and his salesman would use that pitch to when they will go out fifty seven varieties of good things that type. Thing all of that affective advertising and branding led the fifty seven varieties to become ingrained in culture and give it an even greater meaning. So it's kind of like what you said before Dan Fifty-seven, kinda means everything like you might get corrected. If you're new at calling out numbers in bingo of all things, and you just say the number fifty seven. Shaving. Or if you're starring in the movie, the Manchurian candidate and need to think of how many people do you accuse of being a communist, you might look at the Heinz ketchup bottle. You're pouring onto your food and have a brainwave in the next scene. Or if you want to write a song about your love of cheeseburgers like Jimmy Buffett and cheeseburgers in paradise. There are so many ways that Heinz fifty seven has pushed its way into our lives. I just learned one recently. I didn't realize that Matz were called fifty seven varieties Hines dogs. Have you heard? No, I just learned this. So that was a new one. I just learned please do not call dogs Heinz dogs. It's just a little too close the list goes on and on and on and on. Why do you think that number this random number that he came up with? Why do you think that is actually become a part of our culture? Well, I think it definitely helps that it's a very simple number and very simple concept. Whether it's meaning is real or not it's an easy and straightforward advertising campaign was at a time when there wasn't the onslaught of advertising now, we all run screaming from advertising that's everything from the floor of supermarket to the use of a hockey ring electric billboards, but at the time his advertising was innovative. So even if it was everywhere, it never pushed the point where people had too much of it. And then it's carried on into our modern postmodern world where things like that. They grow beyond their ritual. Meaning that was Emily ruby and Brian Butko from the Heinz history center in Pittsburgh. They're working on a book about Heinz together that they're hoping to peg to the company's one hundred fiftieth anniversary next year one hundred and fifty seventh anniversary. Good one. All right. So my on are you satisfied with the service you received today. I am and part of me actually wishes that I knew that the Heinz brand was much more than catch up before. I asked this question because the number it solve is like kind of insignificant, but all the different things that they made it so much more interesting to me and terms of all the stuff that like they did product development wise like. I am realizing that part of the reason why I'm so tough opponents of something I said should send the birth question. Which is why I'm like hedging right now with that. My parents ran a condiment business when I was a kid. So I have condiments also my blood the way that we talked about it. We're. Are. So I was one of their product catchers, and I was a kid, and I like all pickled stuff the best. Dream to be tester. Thank you for calling customer service. Of course. Thank you so much for the illuminating answer. And if you have another question the future don't hesitate to give us a call at seven three one three brands or you can Email us at household. Name at business insider dot com. And hey, you know, the drill. Don't forget to leave us a review and rating on apple podcasts. Five stars. It'd be nice really helps you listeners find the show. Household. Name is produced by Amy Padilla, Sarah Wyman, and a Mazza racket and me our editor is Jonah Palmer. We had help from Kevin Riley, Dan Brown and Kathleen Quilliam sound design original music by Casey Holford, and John Delore. The executive producers are Chris Bannon, Laura mayor, Jenny Rowlett and me household. Name is production of insider audio. Stitcher. K? This is jaboomer on conversion therapy is an attempt to change people from gay to straight to either shock, the gateway or pray. The gay way over seven hundred thousand people in America have been put through this. That's the equivalent of the city of Boston. Jack, the mental illness. So we've just signed in. And then we were handed this giant and book told stuff you need to memorize everything in it. The purpose of this cruising tation demonstrate therapeutic use with homosexuals which to change his six nine there were by versus those who practice homosexuality will not inherit the kingdom of God every single page. The kind of clues wore no hugging or physical touch between clients the way we sat handshakes crossed our leagues. How we looked at our nails. It was like seeing the word of God I was battling with God. At that point. The first episode of unrest is out right now, find unrest in your podcast app. And subscribe, so you don't miss an episode.

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