Hour 4: 9/24/19
The Paul Finebaum show podcast has been brought to you by the capital one sabre card earned four percent cashback on dining and entertainment two percent of grocery stores and one percent on all all other purchases now when you go out you cash in what's in your wallet terms apply but cried passion than patterns three of of College football leaves here the Paul Finebaum show our four podcast thirty minutes away from chatting about the controversial controversial California legislation that thumbed believe could revolutionize intercollegiate athletics. Phillips has done a deep dive into the subject it and we look forward to visiting with him in our studio here in a couple of minutes. We're talking to Contra Chali right now in in Congress. Thanks for sticking around. I just hated to to miss out on Opportunity Opportunity. We're talking to Congress about his career. Obviously leaving Huntsville Alabama to go to the University of Tennessee were he currently is in the administration. I I'm interested in your view of of of of Tennessee right now and I know that it has been a difficult beginning for for Jeremy Pruitt but from an administrative standpoint I'm really eager to hear you talk about Phillip Fulmer running the program now and and just how is life in big orange country after a number of years. Paul retired or did not know that you oh yeah is me okay mark ago well. Hey by the way you know news travels slowly add vs Tennessee yeah. I haven't been to practice or haven't had to go to staff leading or anything and anybody that tells you that retirement no good. They're having retired yet. I had a nice run of it well. I'll I'll I'll rephrase the question here since badly congratulations -gratulations what what are you going to do with the rest of your life now that you're no longer dealing with the headaches of big time administration and I practice this answer whatever my wife wants me to. That's a great answer. That's it feels good. We have a good time together in the coach. My son's just he'll. He'll be a freshman at ut this year. Push my daughters out of college but you know just just retired and the family guy. That's what I really enjoyed it. That is interesting because I know that that school is very dear to you. I am sure it's not always easy to walk away but I am interested in your view. I mean with some distance now. Every every every transition is difficult difficult but from from a little more distance than you had your view of what's going on up there. Well what what I can see watching and and knowing the players that are there. Jeremy's not dealing with the four years stack of his players and when he does I think you'll see some the differences. I'm not saying the ones that were there were not. SEC players but I know some of them were not big. Enough are offensive defensive line from three or four years ago. They were tiny guys and you know you could see it. Just the warm ups and they played their hearts out. Oh but come fourth quarter third quarter. They just hand over run through. Ya 'cause you just not big enough to take the punishment and in fact coach. PRUITT you know coast battle with the goat was under him now and so you know if you run into any problems up there his call counters decide. He'll help your heating out of blabber he. He's just let you know where to go. So so the second day he was here they number two he tells me in his office and I'm thinking what can be ready and he looks at me leases conduct. We're all the big guys I wanNA. COMMU- what you what you spent you spent more than twenty years up there. If I remember correctly as you have to get some perspective here because everyone in want instant gratification contras as you well know but you've you've not only played the game at the highest levels but you you've been involved in administration help us understand the other side of it but go because when you're an administrator Snapshot Snapshot Judgments like we do on a show like this are not easy to facilitate. What's it like being on that side. Well fortunately for me I was I I was taking orders from somebody else I wouldn't he only one getting that done and you know Dave heart and a few other guys were were making aching decisions. I kinda got I was involved mostly where the pro scouts and our players I was a direct line to what not necessarily assuming what they could watch on tape but what the kid does off the field and with other people and in the city I mean what kind of what kind of players he off the field and you know. I let the guys when they came in when they came to sit with me. Let them know guys this. The Pro Scouts asked me this and I'm not gonNA LIE TO 'CAUSE I my job. I'll I'll I'm telling you do what you do but with about it you don't have to go out and that crates 'cause you football. L. Player regular human being but I never never had very many and it was usually transferred because they got in more trouble than I can help them. Get Out of but you know they we had an open my door's open they come and talk to me about a lot of stuff and and the thing about the question is that they'd ask they were very fixable. It wasn't like it was something that Oh my God you did. What and I you know I it'd be as simple as my chief of police free talk if you're going to talk to him and and work it out because you haven't crossed the line yet but you're close so we have conversations like that and you know it works out pretty well. We didn't have any major catastrophes in being at that university. A lot of people go back to coach Fulmer when when he left and they're still debate about whether that was the right decision. That's really not a relevant conversation for now. I mean the only conversation I think that matters is is Jeremy pruitt in this program but as someone who played there and one of the one of the iconic players in Tennessee history who worked there for twenty some odd years in administration I now it's sometimes tough because of the distances you just left as you said but what what will it take for Tennessee to return to to prominence prominence well the one thing that I know for a fact they're gonNA have to start. They already have you gotta get. Sec See players to play an SEC. They gotta be the the side and you gotTa have backups. That is the size. If not will you run into Auburn Alabama old miss you know they got a pound you the death and that's your kids are. GonNa play their hearts out but they're going to get beat up and we after a while they we got to where we were. We didn't have very many. Sec Linemen yeah they were heavy but they were five pm. You know it's just it's a different kind of player that we didn't have very many. Mickey Marvin Zone the team. I'll just say that I remember Mickey Yeah. He was my teammate. He may he was a monster. I mean he he was by the way module the nicest players I've ever met. Oh yeah without a doubt without a doubt and then I went on the candidate met one of my another friend. That's a really good friend now but he was beating me up at Alabama. You remember your defense the Tackle Mike Rain. Oh I do yes we we have anybody looked like him but I ended up playing with play with him for six years at candidate Ottawa but you know it's just players and now we're we're. We're headed that way again. I think we'RE WE'RE GONNA get back but it's going to take a a little bit but we you know everybody says well. You think you're GonNa do I said let me ask you. Did you not see him. Hold up the National Championship Trophy Trophy last year. Go well here. We'll well leaving daddy he can. He knows what he's trying to do. He's been there. He's been I'm only part of that staff and he knows what to do. You just gotTa get the players to do it. So I feel like that battle all the time. I am I try not to but God just bothers me that people don't understand I don. I understand things I understand their fans and that's great but you want to say hey let me give you some of you. Go out to get them back in the head. Yeah no listen. I think the problem is the congress. Young people don't understand what what you went through and many of your teammates and many after you and before you but I think it's even more frustrating for me and I'm sure for you to a certain degree to to to have to remind people of of where Tennessee Stewart in the college football ecosystem back when you played it was Tennessee and Alabama that that's how it that game decided it every year Yep. That's right but you know they don't. They don't understand that and no matter how oh you explain it to them. They're so into the Internet and texting and all that other stuff and they believe everything they get text to read. This is tough but you're right back then it was it was the field mattered well. I really appreciate you joining us. I Apologize For missing a vitamin to your retirement party. I would've known about it. You Know Paul. I didn't even know about it and Philippine arranged arranged all this stuff and all these people start coming out with the blues. So what is this. What was your retirement party. Well thanks I would invite him. My mother very if you'd have told me I mean this is a cop. You just seem way too young to be retiring but no you put it in a long tenure up there. Well I enjoy. Paula really did well fan. We will but hey listen. I thank you for coming on. It's always a pleasure to reconnect and I hope you'll come back soon. Now that I know that you you have more time that'd be fine Legis. Let me know look forward to it. Thank you thank you Paul Cartridge Holloway just truly one of the absolute great players and I tell you what he said there and he spoke some serious truth in that the second part of the conversation about the current state of affairs in in Tennessee and you wonder why they aren't winning. I think he gave you a a pretty accurate explanation. We will take a break mortem. Your phone calls are next right here. GEICO presents yikes another voicemail from your roommate. Pipers in the basement completely flooded anyway. I call for someone to fix it but in the meantime I was thinking we could finally have that indoor pool Fardie. We were always wanted. I got some cool things already. Go and could you pick up some chips on on your way home later. The GEICO Insurance Agency could help keep your personal property protected like if your roommate isn't the brightest pool float in the flooded basement visit geico dot com to see how easy it is to switch and save on Renter's insurance. You're listening to the Paul Finebaum. Show podcast. Welcome back Blad. You're here coming up. A couple of minutes starts with should be a very interesting conversation. Dean is in Florida. Are you inspired by Congress Hallway Dane. Do you think he he offered the secret sauce to saving this program. Sir Let me I'm so glad I'm I'm able to talk to you right now. I grew up in just east of Memphis and Bolivar yeah and I went to Memphis state which is kind of an old news. I remember it all right. Look I think for the Tennessee fan base and I could shout out to my daughter who was a torchbearer award winner in Knoxville and her husband and is a maverick cume. laude graduate is hard man. I mean I mean seriously hard to watch this. I I mean we went through this from the Palmer and then Lane Chevron and it set off but here's the thing you got pedigree coach's Coach's Coaching University of Tennessee right now and what are you gonNA. Do you GONNA go. He's GonNa Talk to you. What are you going to bring in. You're gonNA bring in Washington. Washington state's old washed up coach to lead this team. Are you just going to hang on and let them recruit because Tripoli Paul well if you do not recruit the players that have been used to University of Tennessee over the past twenty years. You're not going to get back anywhere anywhere even close to what you think. You're going to get back to you can watch social media. You can listen to all the all the crap online online but if you do not let the players back on the field. What are you GONNA do. Where's Peyton Manning. Where's no you're absolutely right. Hey thank you very much team for the call. I think we lost you a little bit at the end there herald is up next in Athens Herald welcome to our program good afternoon. Thank you Paul I i WanNa make a comment on rt not naming but I I wanna just say today. This is one of the most informative shows I've ever had because as you know being in Athens Osama Georgia fan but what I want to switch to Paul is I grew up in Savannah which I think I've told you I always call in for the Georgia Florida but what I want to talk about is a gator bowl game with archie manning in Pants Sullivan. You remember that Guy Pat Sullivan not only do. I remember my known pat for Palaiseau. One time I my insurance. He was in the insurance business so I think he was pretty good over there at Arbor and as you know he wasn't bad. He won the heisman trophy in one thousand nine hundred so I think it was that year that Archie Archie I didn't go back and look it up. I I know a bunch of my students should be able to like while I'm holding on the phone. They would have had another computer pewter where they would have been able to but I'm pretty sure it was around that time Paul that Archie had injured his arm his left arm. I think and I think that it was pat and Archie. We're in a gator bowl where my dad took us from Savannah so I would have been about thirteen or fourteen eighteen. I think that's about all you would have been right. In seventy one right and the great thing was as we went down to this old gator bowl and enhance the old stadium and Archie was injured but he he basically ran all over the field and I think Auburn ended up winning save forty five to thirty eight. I if that's the multiple errors probably forty to thirty five. You know what I'm saying but I just wanted to go back to what Bert Jones said. Is that convinced me at age thirteen archie meaningless the best 'cause he peed good at it out played with a cast on one arm any any almost beat the has been trophy went and I thought that was great. I mean parents. Taliban was great and I guess the reason he wanted to heisman. Is I assume that Auburn beat Alabama that you know it's not interestingly interestingly of course by the way he had one of the greatest receivers. SEC history a couple of great receivers these Terry Bazeley yeah if I remember correctly and I don't remember I've read this. The heisman came out before the Iron Bowl in seventy one AH badly I think okay that's funny. No I think he won the Heisman the week before against Georgia. Okay well yeah and that's well. That's what I remember as Georgia's Savannah Fan but the one thing I will say though is I loved your interview with Bert Jones but if you don't mind on do you mind a one comment on Conrad's Halloway no okay. He said he went to Catholic school and he said he he was hit on the wrist by the Catholic priest in Savannah. It was the nuns yeah by the way here I was about to say that I went to WHO Catholic highschool as well and I still remember her. She was my biology teacher and she was famous for wrapping you on your knuckles tackles. We'll my mother page down in. Savannah says that sister right in third grade what happened with me. Paul was I was the the math expert so I knew that eight times eight hundred sixty four but evidently against competition in the city. I misspelled something like Jack Jack in the pulpit. I think I spelled. GAC instead of JC and sister Ida like like put me in the corner for lunch and from now on Ben steeler always said that he liked me. I never played events but I was a fan of events been said. Yeah Catholic school get to the third grade if you if you go to Catholic school in third grade what Vince said is you will play well for me it ending position yeah my my only regret is I only went briefly to only a couple of years to Kathak ice credit and go to parochial school growing up and had I gone the whole way. I perhaps would have amounted to something well. The great thing Paul in Savannah when I was coming up so seventy six is when we graduated and that's when they're bussing as you and I'm. I'm not gonNa comment because that has something to do with what I think. It's going to show up on this. SEC show that you're talking about is with the Bussing Benedictine addicting the Catholic school got we bill searcy played for Bear Bryant. The Kelly brothers played for Vince Gear Lynn the airplane for Pepper Rodgers. They some of those fellas probably wouldn't have gone to to Catholic school but it was it was a good time but again it. I think that this show that you're talking about is great. the other comment. I'd make Ken Burns as doing this country music thing right around the I don't know if you watching that no I've had had the honor of of interviewing can a couple of times and he is just one of the most interesting people great thing is what I've learned is I of all the people there's Johnny Johnny cash obviously he brings in this relationship between Johnny cash and Bob Dylan but his right Kris Kristofferson Kris Kristofferson doc persimmons like a Rhodes scholar writing so mayo he his parents wanted him to become like a professor and he said No. I'm going to be a I'm going to be a song online. I I don't know where I'm going to see but 'cause I'm traveling right now a lot but I I definitely WANNA watch. Ken Burns's the preeminent documentary documentary producer in this country. We're up against a break. We're going to get into a very interesting subject coming back I don't know a lot about but our next guest has pretty much as a PhD in IT Phillips Dutch join us next on the controversy that could rocket through Inter collegiate sports. We are live in New York. You're listening to the Paul Finebaum. Show podcast back really glad you're here. We are live in our New York studio and we've had phillips touch on often over the years. The media consultant takes a pretty good view of the of everything in in in the world and Philip. We've been talking about this case in is now in California anymore and about a week or two ago we you knew you were. GonNa come up so you you know pretty deep into the California situation and and frankly don't know very much about it and I know the audience audience has limited understanding of until we thought we'd get you up here tonight and gives us first of all primer on what is happening. What could be happening. Ultimately what it's going to mean yes intercollegiate. Athletics is about to drastically change and the domino the first Domino Comino is falling right now in California and what happened was there was a legislator Nancy skinner and she is from Berkeley California sure the SEC fans would love that but just she beat Ole Miss Complain so what happened was she introduced a bill that basically would pay college athletes based on their lightness their image and their name they can do endorsement deals they can do autograph deals it would give college athletes in the state of California. You know where else the ability to make money on their likeness their image and their name and why this is important is that mark imminent from the NCAA has pushed back very hard and I talked to sources inside the California state capital today and they said that the bill has already passed its unanimous. Everybody voted for it in the legislature. It's sitting on the governor's desk and the governor can either sign it and it will go into law not sign it it will go into law or he can veto it and and. I'm being told that they're it strongly. He will either not sign it or son it which means that would go into law and why this is important is the NCAA is why wouldn't you sign well. That's the my sources are telling me that the University of California regents and the California State University regents are pushing back incredibly doubly hard along with the NCAA. They are contending that this is an unconstitutional bill and we'll be challenged in court and it's unconstitutional national because interstate commerce governs on a national scale intercollegiate athletics and there you can't they say it would give the state of California California an unfair trade advantage because these athletes people can recruit the athletes to these schools in California and say you get paid to come to school here whereas schools in the South East East or anywhere else can't offer that and that's an unfair advantage there the NCAA. It's a it's a winning argument but the fact is the bill says even goes into law won't go into effect until two thousand twenty three and they have a provision in the law that says if the NCAA changes their rules than they will this law well. We'll go away so in the reason is important because it's also happening in New York South Carolina's considering. There's a congressman and North Carolina right now. Congressman Persson wants to bring this on a congressional level and in New York. It's not about making money on your lightness. The what they're doing is even crazier. They are saying the ability. They're going to put forth and again. People in the state capital of told me that the governor Cuomo is very interested in seeing a bill like this path they want to take fifteen percent of all all revenues that come from collegiate sports and distribute them evenly to all college athletes in the state of New York now you can understand and when I say the domino how important this is because if you've got one st with one set of rules another state with another set of rules and then every other state is going to create their own rules this is complete chaos and the only way can be resolved is for the NCAA to come up with one plan to pay college athletes yeah and and and obviously Marquette the president has said that will happen over his dead body but that was a long time ago he said that so. Let's let's let's follow this across the country and I WANNA make one other clarification before we get to defend. This California is a lightness situation. Yes this New York. Law is completely different. It's an atomic bomb would if they both pass chip ice. Yeah I mean again you deal in Washington all the a what I'm struggling and even asking fictional issues all I'll give you a metaphor real quick and it is that I believe disruption is happening all over the world. One of the examples talk about a lot when I speak to business. Groups is autonomous cars. We know autonomous cars are coming. I always say my six year. Old Daughter will never drive a car right. It's not that tournaments cars are coming. It is the second third order disruptions behind and consequences behind that let's say for instance speeding and parking tickets tickets win autonomous cars will part themselves and they'll be no more fines how to state governments collect money what happens to insurance companies when there's ninety nine percent safer cars in the road road in ten years than than there are now they go out of business though craziest one is what happens to people on organ donor lists when they're thirty five thousand less deaths us by car per year. Do they just die. I don't know but what I'm saying is. These are all the second third order consequences of this disruption. This California bill is the same thing. Thank your ask your question about your question. They're gonNA lawsuits in every state now that you've talking what happens if a booster says oh I can I can you know pay an athlete based on their lightness well. Hey you know to a tunnel. Oh come on over to Alabama and I'll pay you a million dollars for your autograph. There are so many second third in the NCAA is right. There are a lot of problems with us and they need to get a hold of it and put one standard in place ace before everything blows up now. Here's another consequence if it's naming the lightness Paul what happens to random sports within college athletic politic programs that don't have the kind of can't make money what happens to women's sports teams when they say well what about our fair share and then they're gonNA sue and and so and we've already seen this when title nine came about so these are all the things that are going to come down the pike if all these states in the game and create new rules so a It's two thousand nineteen. Twenty-three doesn't sound like a long time a long time. It really isn't so what do you believe will happen as the if this happens. This happens what what's going to happen. Everywhere who else is going to be bills popping up in every state legislature the congress will come in and try to have their own bill that covers everything around the country true the way I like in this is I went to Alabama so I'll use that as a metaphor. They have the best wide receiving corps in the country. If I was to replace Jerry Judy and and become the wide receiver at Alabama. I'm forty five years old and I'm slow I would be a major disruptive force on that team right now not in a good way and that's what these the legislators around the country doing well. They are becoming major disruptive forces. Maybe not in a good way but it's still going to affect what's going on in College Athletics Athletics. I realized Congress a little bit busy today but at some point do you think that eagle-eyed congressmen and senators will look around and go. Hey this this. This is a winning proposition. Let me get involved. They already are it's a bipartisan issue again. In California it was unanimously passed a Republicans in this is like the one issue that can bring Republicans and numerous breakdown of the California legislature. Oh I don't know predominantly democratic but the the in Congress the Congress in North Carolina who's a Republican and he's the one that's banting around right now whether he's going to introduce a bill. What's the upside so for Congress to do this. What what is the endgame for them. Well it's to put one standard in place at the. NCAA is not not gonNA put one standard in place then Congress can come in under the interstate commerce clause in put in one standard so at some point. Will we have congressional hearings hearings to to it's it's this again. I cannot emphasize this enough. The California bill is the first domino and there's is a ton of chaos that is about to ensue unless either Congress or the NCAA stop sign and creates one standard okay so we realized this is more academic Democ than some of our normal everyday fare here. It was important to explain it because it is complex. They'll come back. Take a break every four minutes ago and then have you tell us what you hear. Where do you think it's going and ultimately the impact it has on and what we do here every day. We'll be right back with Phillips. Does you're listening to the Paul. Finebaum show podcast welcome back final couple minutes on very important conversation. I realized we're heading toward week. Five in the college season some scintillating games this weekend for all of view to enjoy but Phillips touches in our studio and we want to spend a couple of minutes because Philip this is this is really heading down fascinate trek so we know where it is. Here's legislatively assuming we started seeing all this coalescing around whether it's California New York Carolina wherever looking looking into a crystal ball on a couple of years were does it all go well. I'll even say one thing for answer that which is you have. The two Democratic presidential candidates they've weighed in on this Pete Buddha judge and Bernie Sanders and Lebron James has also weighed on on the saying that we should be paying attempting to wade into he he has so you're starting to see the voices kind of rise up one way or the other and where I see this in a couple years I think the player there's no way getting around the college athlet college athletes will be paid in some way some fashion. Maybe not all maybe I don't know but the the the way that college football players or intercollegiate athletes are structured now under the NCAA will no longer exist within the next few years and there will be doc new dynamic in the way that they are paid and the way that they compete. We've already seen it today. This has virtually nothing to do with it but the quarterback Houston decided I'm not gonNA play anymore. I don't like to the same end says he said again today. He's going to stay there. That's a matter of opinion opinion but the independence and the rights of college athletes is is not just slowly moving. It's barreling down the road pretty quickly record. That's right and and you even see this in the way that like. Let's say there's another example targeting head. Targeting in the last five years has completely drastically changed the game. The transfer portal title has completely and drastically changed the game they didn't they were unintended consequences. They were second and third order consequences of the transfer portal and everybody's going through this right now today. Hey what happened. Today is exactly what I'm talking about. It is going to be on a much grander scale because you've got politicians involved now and that can be good and also yes. It can be really bad so you. You have two presidential candidates. both considerably less leaning. What impact will this tab on on on the other side. you have. Republicans you have the president who's a Republican. Obviously who's maybe preoccupied today. He's a big sports fan yeah he is. He is not wait on us. As far as I can tell I will tell you that there are Republicans who believe that college athletes should be paid and there are Republicans out there that think it should stay the same mm-hmm as it is as an amateur body. I tend to think that eventually everybody's GonNa come around and this isn't what I want. This is I can see what is happening. There is a storm that has come over. This California. Bill has changed. Everything and I don't think people realize how impactful it'll be and we will know Friday the with the governor of California signs the bill or doesn't sign the bill or Vitas the bill if veto the bill it punts it at least for a year. I see stepping back for a second Phil. Why the change why now. Why is the country shifting on this issue? We'll everybody's talking about it for two years. This is how all movements Ryoko is a great question great quotas by first starts as a movement then it becomes a business and then it becomes a racquet and right now it's in the movement stage and and it has been talked about and talked about in family you know the San Francisco Chronicle recently said California decided to take the lead and they decided to do something about it not just talk about it anymore. In California legislators had done that especially this Nancy skinner in Berkeley California. We haven't heard a lot of coaches and administrators chime in and at some point. Everyone will offer or be asked about this. Have you sensed anything from well. They don't they don't want they don't want to change. They're making can all the money but they also have two constituencies. They have the normal ones and recruits out there so we're seeing this happening around and wants to be paid right and and you better believe the person that probably will be on the forefront of this probably Nick Sabin. That's why I ask everybody. Everybody else will sit on their hands. Nick Sabin will see the tea leaves and is smart and nothing has innovated enough to be out there in front of it and that may start swaying everybody else in college football and I'm. I'm surprised again. We are are now in season so if you you you're somewhat recipe of asking Nick Sabin after a game about something but but I don't think you'll have to be prompted at some point well He. You should be asked because I think the dynamic of this whole situation. I think another domino would fall. It's a major cultural came out like saving you have my shift ski and and it it would serve their purposes to give an answer supporting it. Would it not oh my God. It would be massive. Nick Sabin wants to remain role of he is relevant as a coach wants relevant in the media and the forefront of where the trends are going. This is a trend that is moving in that direction. I want to be clear. I'm not advocating skating either. I'm telling you a trend. It is not going to be stopped. It is a major wave that is coming. You represent a lot of clients. You're very active in in Washington. mm type. We had a great time. There were about a year ago seeing all the usual sites from inside the ropes. We can't talk about no. We are not allowed to talk about our trip to the White House else or the that was pretty memorable. Look at Tom. I am not I. I still don't think they've given me my cellphone the CIA well. It doesn't work mugging listen. I know exactly where I am right now. Philip this assassinating topic. It won't be the last time we talk talk about it. thank you more than anything for educating us because frankly not a lot of information subset of on this until now now. I feel like I could get seeing underscores good well. That's that's average. Which is from New York? Thank you for listening to Paul. Finebaum show podcast the Paul Paul Finebaum show airs weekdays on the S._E._C. Network beginning at three eastern.