Seasons with Jeff flock readings pickers. It's Tony I welcome you to the reasons to cheerful top ten ideas of the year. What's going up? What's going down and moving esteem hosts? It's Ed I'm really bad at Jeff Lloyd take it away he knew you nearly here. We are December the thirtieth flash early January probably. Maybe we give away the fact that every podcast you listen to the radio radio show you listen to every TV show you watch. They did it so far in advance. That you Kinda lose track of you on New Year's Eve on Radio Five Live. This is if if you before. Ten o'clock or one am on New Year's Day. You can head Jeff Lloyd on five lines. Yeah it's my hootenanny Sasha's so here we are as ever as is the region. It'll be cheerful tradition. We are counting down the top ten days of the year hearing from them again and also looking at what has happened to those ideas since we originally talked about them and number ten is back to you enter their new entries or I play along here for is to the future representing the coming generations. Now you may remember that. We spoke to Sophie. How who was the world's first I Future Generations Commissioner in Wales Than Laurie Labone Lengthen Andrea westall since we did this episode founder the big issue Lord? John John Byrd introduced a private member's bill in the House of Lords in October calling for UK Wide Future Generations Act and his sophie took it about her role. Tell us first of all what your job involve. What what what what it means? An unwanted involves CEO. My job was crates. H through a law that that was passed in the Welsh's Abby Colby Future Generations Act and my job description as set out in lower is to act in the interests of future generations should so that's a pretty cool job description. I'm I think my job is to make sure that government and all of our public institutions so count souls Health Bolton Tim sale on Are Applying Lorna taken interest of future generations into account. I am I right in thinking that before your post to set up there was it kind of of dialogue between generations. Is that right. Yes so we held a national conversation in Wales which engaged with over ten thousand. I was in people about the whales. We want and a whole range of different generations so young people from the scouts and the and the eldest which is a Welsh language on wage at Youth Movement to the Women's Institute and Young Farmers. And so on all how this national conversation trying to envisage what would we want Wales else to look like in the future. And what Sorta Wales do we want to leave behind to our children. Our grandchildren and made developed a compensation developed a set of national wellbeing. Goals switch also took accountable the UN sustainable development goals the same time. And I suppose it was really interesting for listening what practical impact your role has had and and there are. There are some notable areas of policy where you've intervened and it has had a real impact. Isn't that right. He Act so one of the best examples. Campos was that. That'd be the proposal on the books if you like. The Welsh government for about the last decade to deal with a big problem with congestion on our main motorway away them for around Newport by building a relief wrote and this was interesting for a number of reasons one because it was the first time the whales had got borrowing powers this and they were proposing to us. All of the Bar empowers on building this road so that's kind of interesting from a future generations perspective because not only is it potentially actually questionable whether we should be building invest resources on building roads. At the moment you're also then proposing future generations to pay it back because he's borrowing but the I guess the the case that I put was that challenge the government to demonstrate how investing amounts of money was in the interest of future generations taking into account and each one of our goals who taken into carbon emissions targets taking into account future trends and scenarios whether we'd adequately thoughts about the potential impact all dry. Listen autonomous vehicles on congestion there whether we talked about orbit curious about Road taxation systems when we all go electric trick so to see a long story short is she went to public enquiry. It was efficient than that needed to be made by the minister. The public inquiry recommended that it should go ahead but the First Minister of Wales rejected that proposal so that was quite significant change in policy as a result of the legislation that we've gone. I Suppose Intervention Interventionist Myself Commissioner number nine the box worth from the bike redistribution shrub. tastic nick reasons to plant now. This is about the argument for plotting millions of more trees. We had Emily Murphy. From Friends of the Earth Academic World Mackenzie and German tree campaigner Felix Finkbeiner a few days after episode winter in July. If Yoga the World Tree Planting Record Norris Chris by planting more than three hundred and fifty million trees in a single day. That's a reference to the Guinness Book of Records for those who were born after sort of ninety nine hundred. Yeah to watch record breakers. It won't be one but when the words of brothers politically a little problematic they were that my my mother did station vision anyway. He's the episode miss so much talk right now about action on climate and the fact that we need to take urgent action climate and one of the things we ask friends. The Earth really pride ourselves with is the solutions that we have for people and government and trees is one of those solutions and it's just emphasize the fact. That trees are part of a package of climate action that we should be taking during in carbon. Yes adjoining carbon something that we call negative emissions which is drawing in carbon from the atmosphere and it also has a whole host of other benefits as well so trees reese can help us provide shade like within urban settings and flooding and flood prevention measures as well and is great for our well beings as a whole host of other benefits Eh and combat. And you want to be clear at friends of the Earth. have an ambitious target to double the amount of tree cover in the UK from thirteen to twenty six percent. Listen which goes beyond. What the government's official advisors the Climate Change Committee have recommended? And we have to be really ambitious in this age where we actually have to start urgent action now and we feel kind of nineteen percent of the committee and climate change have kind of given we really came for it to go above and beyond that. So that's why we're saying twenty six percent and it's also possible symbol. So we've done some illustrative scenarios on mapping and forces only England focus. This is possible so we're not going to be planting trees. He's on crops so we will still have food and we can have trees as well so there is land for that if we're kind of very clever with how we use the land at the home runs in Scotland is already at nineteen. Yes so so which is interesting now rub. We are incredibly excited. We are Giddy to hear about the SCI FI forest. Tell us about the sci-fi for us which is your forest. Well it's the forest. I have the privilege of working in. Yeah you're the king of the sci-fi Forest King of the jungle yes kings yongle. Yeah okay. I'll I'll live with that for the moment if there. The video link I don't think I would quite quite match up to anyone. You being too hard of a King of little buts what we're trying to do is provide some numbers numbers to more firmly. Underpin and the story that you just heard from Miami. And that's what it is. The SCIFI forest sci-fi forest is a forest where we have put a whole load of plumbing into an existing mature oak woodland so that we can gently leak into that woodland an extra carbon dioxide so that we take parts of the forest patches of the forest into the carbon dioxide atmosphere the whole planet will be in by twenty fifty so as modeling the future and seeing what role trees COMPLA- in absorbing carbon dioxide at at higher levels significantly high levels. And we have at the moment. And what have you discovered covered. Well what we found very gratifyingly as the trees so far in the first three seasons of our measurements are able to continue drawing extra carbon dioxide. When you when you offer it to them? They're they're of course there's A. There's a kind of a balanced diet argument here. which made us worry that ask come dioxide concentration's increase and increase and increase? They'll come a point when forests just can't make any use of of that extra resource Plants use cumnock signed for photosynthesis. It's the basis the of all the food chains But the but they need a balanced diet and we were worried that the forest we are looking at would not be able to make use of this extra carbon dioxide but in fact we are finding is that it is making use of dot com outside. And he's making use of it to explore what at extra resources it can defined below ground going up at number eight. There's no place like home. Social homes that as as a social revolution the history and preach of council housing thing so back on the episode we spoke to historian John. Batten inside of Asi and Jim O'Neill who served on their shelter housing commission with Ad. That's one the big thing is you've been up to this year and then we saw that there. They've party Green Party left. They all went big on social house building programs in manifestos manifestos in the election. And it seems like your argument has been one well. Let's hope that this government delivers on this. Because I think it's I think is an area where the the argument is being one not not not just simply by the shelter housing commission but just lots of the arguments about the housing crisis and the role of social housing really important. Let's hit the clip flip. Talk to us about your experience on the commission. Why you think is important but also about the economics of it by the sheer size so a number of new social homes as we're calling for three point one million twenty is the scale and I'm Bishen that goes with it obviously suggests right at the cool the whole approach thinking about housing in the UK is going to change? And that's why I love on of course for many people and public policy makers and senior Civil Simpson caught up in. You've not seems a little bit big but I think if you go coherence around big picture things. That's how you actually start to get stuff done and I think they said that you and I were. I mean pushing an open door but both of us were urging ambition. Yes it during the course and I recognize that we need the talk for an outside charity to be doing a report. There was no point in doing something which was just to the stuck in the weeds of government is one of the things I really liked about about Watching how you operate so that we we we clearly without talking about privately this office to me how to do that otherwise it I ah govern those anyhow as many of these things let me make sure it doesn't but if we wouldn't have done something like this but there is something also that speaks to your expertise. which is the sort of economic question about this? And Whether Union discusses about seeing council housing as this'll of asset just talked talked about this this infrastructure capital investment and asset. So the other thing the two or three things that really struck me from. Let's call it. Forty five thousand feet first of all. Why is housing not regarded as announcer in the same way? That's just two or cross meal would be doesn't really make sense. One of the big things that I think shelters Gawk at some supporters on a not lose momentum and some of his commissioners maybe can help a a little bit is to get the infrastructure commission that Swat three years old which is the governing body. That's looking bodies supposedly have independent analysis of walks important for Britain's infrastructure. Housing is not on it and it's never been the case. It was deliberately excluded. I didn't buy my boss. George Osborne in my extensive seventeen months is administered. The Treasury because He I suspect he deliberately would. It complicate their politics. I don't know But it was a night on so I tried to resist. It doesn't make sense for the reason you just said. And the second thing which goes with it which dawned on me and I I in housing isn't something. I've spent a lot of time thinking about in the past but when you look at the kind of basic evidence presented percents early on. It really seems to me like we've had an elastoplast policy thing as we have on so many other things but for the past four alleges that there's not really being a forty thousand feet policy Everson's Maggie option. I decided to be cool to have people who are living in council houses own them in the end of any thoughts about housing policy. And we've ended up with all these people this horrific rise in five rentals of people that really we fought to live in those places not as deliberate intention but just as a as a consequence of that and of course people can't afford to buy their own so it got. What number does he goes to the call of actually something way beyond your social housing? I fundamentally dealing with Britain's post post it's nine hundred sixty thousand dollars in my view at number seven. Oh I do like to be beside the seaside. Now there's a story behind this. which is it was was? RC side episode. It was proposed very strongly jol who came to work on. The podcast is fed say as with all successful episodes episode it was met with a degree of skepticism for me. Wasn't it Jeff. It was but it wasn't that to be absolutely gangbusters. Brilliantly listened to and a great reaction and we spoke to finance latter Nick Taylor and Sam scriven by coastal communities the new economic foundations plan for blue new deal. It was our most listened to episode of the year as I said the House of Lords Committee on regenerating seaside towns obviously listen published a report few weeks after our episode talking about Connectivity Transport Housing and education and seaside towns. Let's hear it. I have to start always when I talk about communities that have just start by saying that. Those are amazing communities with an amazing lifestyle living on the coast. That's why a lot of people retire to the coast while other people want to move to the coast when they do. You know it's amazing coastal environment so so you know there's lots of positives really strong communities the ones that I've been meeting for the past few years traveling around the coast but they do face a lot of challenges. They are complex challenges changes so the first thing I'll say is that when looking coastal communities one group of communities in the UK UC higher level that probation unemployment educational underachievement achievement. Those are economies. That have been lacking diversity and dynamism so many areas for example are heavily dependent on tourism which is seasonal industry and that means that they like resilience really so it makes them less able to cope with any shocks to the economy or environmental shocks like the effects of climate change for example. And what has been happening because the community is something that has been happening with other communities in the country which is that they have never really recovered from the loss or decline of traditional industries such as fishing shipbuilding or the glory. Days of REC- site tourism and hasn't happened is a coherent plan to reinvent coast economies into support them in feeling those those gaps that have been left for too long. They're so there's really living a cycle of disadvantage. That's how I see it. Areas there are mostly need are also the least least attractive to investment. So there's a challenge there in how do we basically make a change you know. How do we transform what's happening right now? And a potential answer to that his this lou new deal that the new economics foundation propose. Can you talk about the deal. Or what that proposes them what it would involve. Yes the blue new deal is is a vision and also plan for the UK coast. So it's I saying that the starting point for Looney deal should be Costa communities most the unique asset what sets them apart. The reason why we talk about them. which is the marine environment? And so if you're looking at you know creating a healthier coastal and marine environment and really supporting those resources on which communities heavily depend on. What does that mean then economic development? How do we think about the activities? It is going to be investing in how we will invest in them differently so the balloon ideal is very much about focusing investment in in the activities industries such as tourism has the potential to be you know a good good positive economic force. It's not doing the job yet but it could be better fisheries could be. We could drive really sustainable fisheries for real in the UK. We could invest more in renewable energy. We could invest more are in in other industries as well. That could be sat on the coast. But in order to address the challenges on why certain industries for example the digital economy hasn't been thriving on the coast in place that people would probably like to go and sit in the Sun China and then go to the office and do very remote work for example the reason for that is because because of the complex challenges so now go back to the more systemic issues for the Cosa sits on the periphery of the UK. Economy so they lack connectivities sometimes. It's really pretty hard. Disk for people to relocate to the coast because of transport infrastructure broadband. Connectivity might not be so good so what you're saying is that there's all this potential on the coast and communities are doing ready in could be doing a lot more of the right support but there is a need for a national framework of investment and end particularly look at the coast. That's why we talk about a Costa Industry Strategy but also about you know if you thinking about national infrastructure in the UK. You need to have Costa Element to it. There are particular challenges for the coast. If you're talking about skills there is a particular need you know on the coast in terms of the types of skills kills or reskilling a retraining people just outside the big top five at number six I fought the law and I won the art of if successful campaigns and in this episode we have from Gina. Martin Matt Zarb cousin about that campaigns on up skirting and fixed odds betting terminals respectively actively we also spoke to the executive director of Citizens UK by the Bolton. And for me. Anyway I thought what was great about this episode was it was stuff that big campaign for and they'd seen victory That was quite inspiring and since then gene was released a handbook book. If you want to be an activist it's really good. It's called be the change and let's hear from Genera Matt. Can you tell us the story behind your you campaign to make up skirting criminal defense. Yes so that was July two thousand seventeen. I was at British sometime festival in Hyde Park and I was waiting for Benjamin onstage. Middle of the day Really Hot Day and my sister group guys so hitting our maintenance had no probably seventy thousand times taking kind of getting I angry. I guess at that point and one of them took photos with his iphone between my legs of macron trump and. I didn't see him do that but I did. See the other guys on the phone looking at photos So I grabbed the phone guys and held it up like a bit of a scuffle with him and then people in the crowd pushed pushed him and helped me run through. The crowd was like sixty thousand people crowd so it was huge and around through the crowd got security. They called the police and the police came and they really nice but they just deleted the pit. Jeremiah door gone. And they were like this other weekdays. Sorry carry on with the night and then I kind of looked into the law and found out that had been a sexual fence in Scotland for ten years and various other countries around the world that we hadn't done that here and that's what I launched online. So so how do you see. How did you go from thinking? This is ridiculous that there's no law against this sitting than Wales thinking. I should be the person to ever a gap there. I think a big at the beginning. I was very angry about it. I think it was like the stroller. Go back in terms of growing up as young lady deal with a lot of stuff. You don't want to get on with it for no reason why we do. And I went on social media and posted actually ironically a picture a Selfie of me and my sister and they were in the background. I found it on my phone and I was like Oh that's so based on facebook twitter instagram and facebook and touch me. And we'll let you have to take down harassment. I was arrested. So it's like okay. I think we're done here. This is ridiculous and I started a petition and start a social media campaign that was fairly small advertising for seven years and I was like. Can we get these guys prosecuted any kind of starters that for the first week and then I just had this moment. It tells me from where I was like. Why did I just try and do the bigger fight like I never would? Let's give it a go like I would have never done this before. So why not. Why just for my own KS one translates on so it's up big time and hey? We got no history in campaigning. Tissue School Fridge. ISKOE you learn on the job really on. How did it go from wanting to change the law to change the largest for our listeners? So I the Social Media Media Company happened and I've done some traditional media morning shows and debates and stuff and I think I realized that I was doing I think a lot of us have the propensity to do when we want to change something thing where we kind of shout at the power to us we will this change it like how I don't if that's helpful. So how do I get clever. Here's strategic. And how do I came changing legislation so we need law firm. I need a lawyer. I need to really think about media strategy like a political strategy and kind of had that light bulb moment and then I went to a whole bunch of law firms and Gibson Dunne who global law firm agreed to back me. Actually it was one of the young lawyers Ryan whalen. Who's twenty nine? Who is now a great friend and we got together and plan their strategy and then went to parliament starts talking to Eh p small parties and kind of building inside? The walls really was how we started at. Let's talk to you the campaign you've been very involved in his stopping fixed odd betting terminals. Can you talk about how you became involved in that what it was about that that was resonated personally for me personally. It was Got Addicted to fix those backing seven sixteen underage and then over a period of four years I lost in the region of twenty thousand pounds of going to huge amount. A huge amount of debt came very close to the end Take him out of life and before style gambling i. They didn't know you could get addicted to camping. Didn't get certain products brought out in people more than and more than other products. I think the whole understanding of gambling addiction. My understanding was very limited until I was experiencing it and then when when a AH stop gambling I had therapy and Took me about six months from end to to completely stop and then finished my degree after that and then started campaigning just voluntarily sue worked with a group of reformed family sticks and we was sort of trying to get something going And Really Did Dispatches Program in twenty twelve which was on Britain's high-street Gamble Michael a quick thing and then guy going with me Derek Webb who's a philanthropist and he wants it to compete against these machines He had a background grounding gambling and on the stood some gambling products are more addictive than others. And it's about game design and how interacts with the player and we set up. Stop BEF BTS in early twenty thirteen. And it's been a real testing absolute slug doc reasons to be cheerful cast about ideas with Ed milliband. Jeff light at number five. It's live at Abbey Road fixing music education. This was a great treat for us. Wasn't it it was just one task pilgrimage but actually it wasn't just the being being Abbey road walls one hundred episode and actually with a brilliant discussion with Deborah Nets from the Incorporated Society of Musicians. Music teacher Jimmy Roll throw who got the audience. Yes of reasons whichever listening music industry people who are cynical and everyone joined that he was such an inspiration. Tunstall old jobs Malton and Rebecca Lucy Taylor since then the BBC launched a major project on promoting music education September. Casey Telstar released a charity Christmas a single a cover of John Lennon's give me some truth. Let's hear it. Just tell us a little bit for those who don't know about how music education works in the UK. A terms of war other in England moby about in schools. Some what's this. What does this little requirements in schools? What's compulsory? What's aw okay? So we've got this thing called the national curriculum which all state schools theoretically have got to follow but then the academy's was set up and the academies with all that they didn't have to follow the national curriculum. What that has meant is that seventy two percent of secondary schools schools and academies and a huge number of them have basically given up on the national curriculum as have many primary schools and music is part of the national curriculum? So if your school isn't obliged to follow it because it's known academy chances are it may disappear and what we're seeing at key stage three is. It's called so it's the twelve. Fourteen year olds in secondary schools. The majority of those and no longer studying music and fifty percent primary schools have lawson music as well and most coaches concert mainly. I'm afraid it's the driver of the academies and also something called the back which which we're going to talk about because unfortunately the impacts of the BAC is to remove creative subjects in our in our schools schools because there isn't time for them because everybody's doing triple science or French or geography huge amounts of geography mass and English. The rest of it and the bank is sort of about call series of subjects. which you have to do basically all subjects onto the actually not in the calls right so back in two thousand and ten Dan when this idea came out of the conservative government music was there in the first interview with Michael Music was there and then the second interview view disappeared and it's been kind of falling through the cracks ever since which has caused huge trauma in relation to what's going on in our secondary secondary schools? You know music teachers losing their jobs very often. No Music Department is now just one teacher in a secondary school and being timetabled off so definitely within key stage three. You may only get one music lesson every term if you're lucky and can we talk a little bit about why it's important beyond just creating took another McCartney and had been impacted conurbation and its employees so more more broadly wires music I think music is part of being a human being. You know if you go back to the beginning of time. The Dawn of time caveman was in his cave. Join pitchers of musical instruments. Plato the Great God. Plato talked about music being absolutely fundamental to education so it was going really well. For a lot of ancient Greeks reeks getting to grips with music. And then we have through recent times. Government policy has very very much being embarking on this knowledge focused way of schooling which is basically sticking as much education in terms of facts. Wchs am knowledge and content into into children's heads. People doing music is something I wanted. Twenty all that's right so since two thousand fourteen music. UCSE has dropped seventeen percent creative subjects as a whole have dropped eighteen percent and there is just come to Jimmy. There is a sort of public private issue here. which is I think you will say to? The Nation report showed that eighty five percent of Independent. School said they have a school orchestra. Only thirty two percent of state school. So there's a big divide is a huge device or if you think about music being caught to being a human being and you really do they want all children to be exposed to it. The something fundamentally unfair about eaten having one hundred visiting music teachers one hundred one hundred. That's outside of the Music Department but one hundred visiting music teachers in addition to that school department of Music whereas in most state schools there's virtually version nothing so in terms of diversity and what the music industry is going to look like in the future. There was a real problem. There that we're just GONNA have push kids nothing against push kids but actually turnt resides in. Anybody it's not about class open well at number four it's who's afraid of GDP. I shift into a wellbeing economy. This is a great episode. We spoke to Finance Minister Grant Robertson about his first wellbeing budget in New Zealand. And and then we discussed with Academic Bronwyn Hayward the NFC quick and former cabinet secretary. Gus O'Donnell I was disappointed that the episode that didn't quiet was bubbling under the top. Ten was reasons to be literally bubbly on the given experience in the hawk. Giza's released video of you. I think Yeah I think the reason I mention that as the Icelandic prime minister friend of the catcher in Yacob's dot says she introduced days to well-being budget earlier Just at the end of last year in December which was inspired by our episode. I'm sure as was the Lib Dem's adopting a policy of introducing a wellbeing budget Nicholas Sturgeon gave a Ted talk about focusing on wellbeing. This podcast really have big repercussions. So let's let her go so donald talking about it. How is policy made at the moment? Just before we get onto how you think the kind of well being approached would would would change it when I think when you're looking at policies you'll often very focused on the financial so when you were Treasury Treasury you'll worrying about deficit so you look at financial returns. Costs some benefits and benefits drawn up relatively narrowly oviously over over the years. That's got better and better so for example when you'll deciding whether to build a road on off you're looking at trying to value time savings but also the the sightings in reduced accidents lied saved injuries. Say but also impact on air pollution. Co Two all those sorts of thanks so policies getting broader embroider. I think the the stent where we hat where we're struggling with is moving that forward saying yes but overall all is this leading to an improvement people's quality of life or their wellbeing. And that kind of gets you into the area of how do you actually measure that wellbeing well-being and now we have the Office for national statistics looking at different ways of asking people so subjective wellbeing you know overall how satisfied with your life questions and why do you think the current approach is sort of insufficient. There's quite a lot it doesn't capture HSA for you. Is that right. Yes so if you take let me take the example of health when we look at whether a new drug should be available on the NHL saw. Aw We know how much the drug costs among we value. Whether we should do it on all wait wait lose a quite sophisticated measure called collies quality adjusted rested light years. Which says how much does this actually improve a quality loy for someone so if you have a drug that cost five million and actually keeps people going for one more week when they're in acute pain anyway? That probably wouldn't do it whereas you've got drugs which actually give people pretty good quality of life for or time and aunt so expensive. You might want to go with that. Now that's an example where we're doing what I would call proper wellbeing analysis but actually when we come to thinking about should we keep this hospital opened on on. How much should we spend on drugs raw than a behavioral program to prevent Things things then I think we it's to go wrong. If you're using a wellbeing approach for example health you'd be much keen on spending money on children's mental health and making sure the mental health people who have mental health illnesses diagnosed were actually treated. How strong is the the link between GDP and wellbeing generally if there's growth and there's more money for public spending does does that tend to mania living in a country with high wellbeing metrics as well? The relationship isn't one for one by any means and obviously PA This problems with JD. Eighty paid in a people using GDP as a a measure of how well you'll doing really do need to kind of grow up I think because GDP matches somewhat. But it's a measure of activity off. How well you'll doing? Even Simon cousins put together many many decades ago. Oh said don't use this as a measure of success for example if all the people doing volunteering announce -ociety suddenly gave up volunteering and started doing illegal drug activity. Jaydee will go up so. GDP is a measure of activity. It goes up when you have catastrophes. uh-huh uh-huh quakes It goes up when you use up resources depleting your resources particular minerals So it's really. It's not a sensible measure however society is doing. We're into the top three now at number three Germinal Dermal. That is more like two fingers on the desk. It's the kids are alright. People climate strikes and the green new deal now of course the climate strike for a big big part of two thousand nineteen. We went onto student. Climate strike in Parliament Square dance to and Peta and that actually the green new deal to be one of the most talked about political ideas of the major part of the US Democratic primary. The Labor agreed. You deal movement here and of course the global climate strike which took place in September. Let's hear I'm Petipa. You were there the creation of the green new deal. We'll tell us sort of what motivated you to come up with the idea and then tell us about the content of it just to get us so we can sort of for our listeners. Kind of located. What does it actually really mean right? Okay well first of all the actual green new deal word phrase I think was thought by Friedman the Journalists on the New Times Friedman before two thousand seven but in two thousand and seven eight colon hind who had worked at Greenpeace for time convened convened a group of his pals and I was one of them and what we were trying to do is to address the triple clubs because this is in the middle of the financial crisis. But it's before layman's crash. So we the triple crown which we faced financial crisis to climate crisis and three peak oil. We believe that we were heading towards Pico recorder. Of course that was a wrong story but never mind so. The fact. Is that the things that I want to get across words that you cannot do anything about the climate climate unless you do something about the economy go to transform the economy because it's the economy that if you like has created the crisis and and that's very a hard for Greens to do a greens green campaigners and activists tend to compartmentalize it into this nature this environment and leave economics to chaps in pinstripe suits and we said no no no. We have to integrate these so so can you give me the key elements silence of the new deal that you came up with so the first element is to do with the financial system the financing of it the taxation associated sort of the financial side of managing the transformation of the economy away from carbon the second element was a greater energy efficiency and and Labor a generating activity which is substitution Carbon Labor for carbon. A big idea at that time was to retrofit every property in Britain club. Insulation has the insulation to make buildings more energy efficient because so many emissions are linked to our buildings how closely does is the the the the US green new deal that we're hearing about. How closely does that resemble your proposal? So what happened was a year ago this about this time last Izak eggs lead turned up on my doorstep and right and he said I've come from the US. We've setups have been called justice. Democrats Kratz we'd like to get twenty left wing Democrats elected in the midterms and was thinking about the presidential the twenty president but we you have no economic strategy and he'd read my book and he has a little plug. It's called the production of money and he loved it particularly loves that phrase that Keynes used which was we can afford what we can do. In other words that we'd developed monetary system to enable us to do what we can do and there are limits to what we can do but they're not limited to the use we make monetary system to enable us to do it anyway. He loved that so we began talking had some meetings. He went back home. And then one day he pops up with a Google doc and says his the green new deal and so basically that they are the same that the elements all the same but they downplay the question region of financing at the moment and of the monetary system and instead they focus on taxation. I'm I'm happy I'm happy with too much of a focus on taxation and we can talk about that and they they also focus on the social justice angle one more place to go until we find out. What is the big number one on this year's reasons to be cheerful top ten episodes of the? What's that number two? Just missing out on the top spot is born to open brackets. Park closed brackets doc. It's run bond to park run jeffords excellent adventure. That was one of your suggestions. On what the podcast should be called wasn't yeah before revolved around. No Jeff Ed sex. Yeah yeah that's true. And it was one of our on location episodes. We went to one but it was recorded recorded before it was recorded. Twenty six but it was still an episode in January nineteen. Ah Nineteen now we went clarins reply on my PK. We spoke to chief. Executive Harrison author Bella mackey. And and and it was quite incredible because the next week they had how many more people zone up lots. They celebrate. Fifteenth Birthday in June pout. Run generally not just Ed's report WANNA is a phenomenon and somebody doncaster park. Running cousin with whole is brilliant as sample punk. So it's popcorn is the highlight of my twenty nine hundred. So you've said so. Let's say from Nick. The way we would describe part one is probably. It's a series of free. A weekly community led socially focused physical activity events started in southwestern in two thousand and full will one group of thirteen individuals around the park persuaded to turn up by the founder post into Hewitt to begin with it was clear. Running event put on for a very perf polls running friends and we now move away from calling running thing because it's whatever you want to be there for people to run jog people to walk people to volunteer and all of those things are equally important to us so from two thousand and four the one win now at around about fifteen hundred events globally every single wake in twenty countries we have just over five million registered part runners five it's only been in the UK is in the UK of which around about We just record actually end of November. We had biggest-ever number which was two hundred would ninety two hundred thousand people participated over the course of one weekend either running walking jogging or volunteering and January's massive month for for us. Is it constantly growing. Yeah yeah so it's it's the overall global growth is probably twenty five percent just to be clear as one hundred and fifty thousand people do it every week every single week every single. I mean. That's all it's unbelievable. But that number is also rapidly is rapidly growing so that would have been united seventy five thousand units to two and a half years ago so Where we see it going? is we see We see it not being that that far away that we reach a million people to wake the participating the scale. The massive skied out of numbers is not really what our objective is we feel. That's almost an inevitable consequence of of where. What do you think is about part? One that people people are latching onto what. Why do people love? It was such a success. I think there's hundreds and hundreds of different reasons for that. I think that that there is something about its egalitarian nature. That was set out from day. One and he's represented by the character and values and ethics of the founder and that's the everybody's equal and everybody should be treated equally free and it's free. Yeah but but the traditional running event will create a hierarchy based around performance and we actually challenge that an attempt the two from day one disrupt that so even though day one with thirteen paypal was unquestionably a running event. Pull gave out to prices won first place at one tossed place and that represented even at that moment in time. Although we had no idea what it was going to go on to become it represented the fact that to pull they were of equal value and everybody people he was of equal value and actually operating in a world or an environment where you can be yourself. And I'm being made to feel of equal value. I think he's quite a unique A unique thing and so that definitely definitely definitely resonates I I think that there is a natural sense of community. The the exists in people's DNA and as lives get busier and not get stripped out of our choices when you when you give people the opportunity to experience community again. I think that I really enjoy it. And so you know we see that we see that there's a royal wedding can't wait to get the the tables out and celebrate it because it almost hawks back talk where those kind of things happened. All the time and I think community is a basic human requirement. Which is why it crosses coaches Dan Dant at Tanta to now the number one? I thought I guess my little red dishes. The side of that was very good symbols then the number one reasons to be cheerful episode of two thousand nine as empire state of mind overhauling the history we teach and to be honest. I actually what you think but I think this was a pretty clear winner. Yeah for for two hundred nineteen and it was a brilliant show it was live at the Clapham grand with the Bambara and Jason talked about British Empire failures teach about you in schools in the history of empire loads of listeners touch and their experiences of history education and how little they felt they knew one university lecturers would I episode on their reading list for undergraduate history students. Though I can't find who it was boss Madrid that bit out. South Labor pledged to add the teaching of history of Empire to the curriculum in their election. Manifesto I mean honestly and I think both Jason it's An and particularly were brilliant guests and we're going to hear the click of commander that Lay Judson. Is The matt the British Empire in Nineteen Twenty one. Now into. You're going to tell us. This is like the basic foundational moment of the discussion where we will get. If we weren't taught in school what Britain walls basically nine hundred twenty one. Well I guess the first thing to understand is that Britain doesn't become come all the bits and read all at the same time and so before you have Britain you have the kingdoms of England and Scotland. They the entrance union in Seventeen seven through an act of union both England and Scotland have colonies prior to that act including their close neighbours as well as colonies further afield Virginia and the West indies. So at the very moment that Britain comes into being it already has colonies already has imperial real intentions and so it comes into being as an empire and then over the next two centuries it goes round invading and colonizing much of the rest of the world so that by the height of empire by nine hundred twenty one. That's pretty much. The peak of empire Britain has control over Bondo in that sense and one quarter of the Earth's land territory it governs over one fifth of the world's population including extracting taxes from that population Shen and that governs over one two of the world's Muslims by nine hundred twenty one. I'm Britain got very very rich. Says yes there. It was a report written in eighteen. Hundred five you're looking. You told us before you are looking at the national accounts from eight hundred eight thousand five the other night which I just shot wall series person can you all. It was report. Taisel the general statistics of Rish Empire. Yeah Richard Temple. WHO's the secretary of the Royal Statistical Society he Outlined the fact that in eighteen eighty five Britain had a national income of two hundred and three million pounds of that eighty four million pounds came from taxes and resources says in the UK seventy-nine million came from taxes and resources from India and forty million came from the rest of the colonies so the national national wealth. That's under the control of the National Government in Westminster. More than half of that. Wealth comes from the colonies. Every institution is Britain. It's funded by the wealth of empire. Okay and then the other thing that is incredibly fascinating bailout to tell us about the Because using the bailout of two thousand today was expensive and like a big deal tell us about the bailout of the slave owners so I mean one of the things awesome one way talking about empire. We're talk about slavery and one of the I things and is how Britain abolished slave trade. And it's like yes. Britain did abolish slave trade but after about two hundred years of profiting from it and the prophets from the slave trade didn't end with the ended the slave trade because the only reason slave owners and Britain agreed to the abolition of the slave trade was because they would be compensated so just to underline underline. It wasn't the people who had been enslaved who were compensated for their loss of liberty. It was the British slave owners people who owned other people who were compensated and they were compensated incited to a tune of twenty million pounds in eighteen thirty three. That's the equivalent of seventeen billion pounds today which to put it another way is forty percent of GDP forty percent of GDP GDP that was twenty million twenty million to forty percent of our total compensation and there wasn't enough money in the country to pay people and so what the government did was raised Bonn so those bonds were raised. The slave owners paid and we that is British British taxpayers both in Britain and the colonies only finished off paying that bond in two thousand fifteen. So if you've paid tax prior to twenty fifteen fifteen you have paid compensation to people who owned other people and that was still being paid. So it's been paid to be to the answer of a money was borrowed by the government so we've been paying through taxes to the pain back of that that bond and the interest on that and that was at the top ten podcast of the off. Thank you so much for listening to us in two thousand nineteen we. We hope you'll stick with us in two thousand and we'll be back we're going to be doing more. Live shows cheerful book club Yes. We'll be properly birthing that in a few weeks time. I'm said lots of look forward to happy new year. Happy New Year. Well as every week but you know even more focused the last one of the year we want thank mccutcheon. I'm who produces our podcast with backup research from Joel Piss and Joe Kenyan. Gal lofthouse is our announcer at seed compose music. James Deka made the identity and the artwork was dose reduced. It will actually produce partly two thousand nine hundred by Emily Powell yes. Cs Fat To to be she liked his of the kind of one. The artwork was produced by emily. Power and the work was not produce. Hey Emily power exactly bought bought. It was produced by hand recall. He's been an old acquaintance into the big reasons to be cheerful.

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