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Coming up on. The robots can't help apple, but the hey, I may facebook. Lets you push a button to send your photos over to Google and what tech companies will do about the pressure to change their business with law. This is the daily Tech. News for Thursday June Fourth Twenty Twenty in Los Angeles I'm Tom Merritt and from Studio Redwood on Sarah Lane from Oakland California I'm Justin Robert Young. On the show's producer Roger Chain Hey. We're just having a discussion about who we think. The quintessential interviewer was maybe you have an opinion. Goal is to our expanded show. Good Day, Internet by becoming a member. At Patriotair Dot com slash. S Let's start with a few things don't. Fit Bit obtained emergency use authorizations from the US FDA for its fitbit of flow emergency ventilator. The lower cost design is based on the MIT event system, and is the automated at resuscitate resuscitate her style design, replicating the function of manual resuscitation bags used by EMT's with the FDA authorization fitbit can now use its existing manufacturing partners to build these in lert volumes. Messaging. APP Signal announced its next update on IOS and ANDROID will offer a dedicated face blurring option in its image editor. The feature can automatically scan for faces using on device system library and users can also trace over faces. If it fails to detect one signal, says all image processing will be done on device while way launched these six point eight one inch honor play four five g. a lot of numbers there, but it's the play for the honor. Play for and this one is. Is Five. Also a six point. Five one inch model called the play for pro five G.. These are launched in China version of the play for pro will be offered with an infrared temperature sensor, the play, four or five G. Cost, one, thousand, seven, hundred ninety nine yuan, that's about one hundred fifty dollars, yes, and the play for pro cost, two thousand, eight, hundred ninety nine yuan that's about four hundred dollars us and the version with the temperature checking cost you an extra hundred yawn. Some musical chairs on. Google Google announced Ben Gomez believe his role as head of search to go to oversee Google for education, Google, scholar and education search as well as Google Arts and Culture Gomez will remain a technical advisor to search. However private car Ragavan will replace Gomez at the head of search and assistant, which encompasses news discover podcasts, and also Google Assistant Jen, Fitz Patrick will now run Google's central engineering team. That's not a hard job which has eight thousand employees and is responsible for the company's core, technical systems and infrastructure corporate it. Design Google accounts and privacy, but that's. Defined small. Coast through that one. Yeah, facebook is rolling out labels that identified media that is either state owned or state controlled. Those outlets will no longer be allowed to buy advertisements on facebook in the US starting this summer and advertisements they run outside of the US will contain labels as well. facebook used outside experts to classify the state controlled media based on multiple factors and outlets appeal that label. If they feel, it was applied by mistake. All right, let's talk a little bit about all the streaming. People are starting to come out of their houses again, Justin, are they still watching the stream? Oh Heck Yeah Tom. Nielsen estimates that streaming is staying higher than it was pre lockdown. Despite lifting of restrictions across the country, connected TV includes game consoles Rose Martinez and the like March second a Nielsen estimated two point seven billion hours of viewing on connected devices that peaked at three point nine billion for two weeks from March twenty third April. Fifth as lockdowns were eased. Eased the hours fell by much the week. Ending may tend still at three point. Five billion hours viewed Nielsen, said traditional live TV usage. In early May was only marginally higher than twenty thousand nineteen. Yeah, it's still probably too early to draw too many conclusions that three point five billion might settle back down closer to two point seven billion by the time. Everybody's really back. To going outside all the time, but it does show that people turned to streaming more than traditional. And have kept using it so I. Mean I guess you could? You could conclude if this holds that we have accelerated the adoption of streaming among a large number of people, well as far as just sort of like okay people have been forced to adopt different. You know I don't know entertainment strategies and all sorts of other things you know when when when the whole sort of like this is. My routine got torn down and a few months ago. You know at the beginning of March you know what what stuck. Certain things will continue to stick even after life goes back to normal. Whatever that means I think for a lot of people say I like that show I'm going to keep watching that show or I'm going to. I'm going to use the streaming service that maybe I hadn't used before and I had. Taken, advantage of because I was stuck inside in some of that stuff doesn't just go away. Because because life is normal again yet, not to mention these streaming services are optimized for retention in a way that traditional television is not. Former Foxconn executive David born tells the information that back in twenty twelve apple executives, including Tim Cook or reportedly in China to see the results of an experimental ipad production line that wanted to replace humans with robots Terry Glow Foxconn chairman at the time reportedly told apple that Fox guns assembly lines contain one million robots within two years well twenty fourteen came along, and that didn't happen. But last year Foxconn was using one hundred thousand robots across all of its manufacturing and the information sources say that's based on dissatisfaction of the finished product of the robots by Apple Apple launched its own stealth robotics lab in two thousand twelve to try this out themselves which housed a team of automation specialists in robotics, engineers who initially tried mimicking that Foxconn ipad automatic production line, apple reportedly wanted to cut fifteen thousand workers from the production line, but machinery couldn't handle apples. Precision methods, apple also tried an automated production line for the two thousand fifteen macbook, which was not only abandoned, but that MAC book itself was postponed by some months. Because they experiment didn't work. The information article also goes on to talk about how the adaptability of human run production lines is better because humans can be told to do something a different way, whereas machines have to be reprogrammed at this point, so if you want to change something midstream or increased capacity to lines that didn't have the robots. It's not as flexible as the humans. You know a not not that the world needs any. Darker thought that isn't already populated, but the first thing I thought of was specifically with Foxconn if the idea was to move to automated lines that you know to remember their suicide epidemic that happened, and indeed that was through two thousand ten, so if they were introducing and touring. Tim Cook through that I wonder whether or not there was an element of like. Hey, you know that this has become a scandal worldwide It certainly was here in the united. States the uncomfortable nature of how a happy these foxconn employees were. Maybe this is a way that we can go forward to continue to keep your business I wonder whether or not That had anything to do with it. Also, just the idea of a okay, so there was an experimental. Let's see how ipads get assembled. Robots instead of humans come on over Tim, Cook and and various apple executives at the time, and this is a few years ago back in two thousand twelve so eight years ago now and you know th the apple going like not precise enough. You know there's you know like. I I would I would love to know exactly I understand the concept of needing human hands to be more precise when we're. You're talking about tiny little parts of. Of Very expensive gadgets, but but the that it didn't really work out that well for Apple. Apple Kinda go and. Maybe, we can do this ourselves and it'll be closer to home. The experimental loud they had was reportedly just a few miles from apple's main campus in silicon valley, and I didn't really work out either to the point. Where we're still, we're still kind of using the assembly line with all of its problems as you mentioned Justin as we have for many decades. Yeah. This reminds me of eighteen thirty. And the the race between the Tom, thumb steam engine, and the Horse Drawn Rail Cart over a thirteen mile stretch of track. The horse was supposed to lose. This was going to demonstrate the superiority of the steam engine. But the horse kept taking an early lead. It could adapt to the steam engine steam engine could just hit it. Stop speeding go. The horse could like give itself arrest, and when the steam engine caught up, could put out a burst of speed and eventually Tom Thumb, the steam engine broke down. And the Horse One. But less than a year after that race July thirty, first, eighteen, thirty one. All horse-drawn carts were replaced by steam engines on the rail line being Oh, that sponsored this race so I just throw that out there as sort of like. Yeah, stuff doesn't work. Until it works. This is how you get there. You do a bunch of experiments that don't work, and then you go back to the drawing board and you try again so. I think this I would look at this story and say We probably getting closer to robots being able to do this because we figured out where they fail and people are working on fixing that problem. Well? Pretty related, but sort of on the flip side of this whole story. A California based startup called Instrumental Inc. perhaps you've heard of it. Perhaps you haven't created by former up. Apple engineers has created system could help current apple engineers during the corona virus crisis, which has been rumored to be contributing to the delay of the upcoming iphone twelve, possibly anyway, particularly, because traveled to China has been restricted engineers who have to go and make sure everything's going well, and and make sure everything's you know up to up to speed can't go. They can do. It can't do their jobs. Instrumental system equipment manufacturing lines with cameras and then analyzes those images using a is software so that the engineers have more flexibility and not always have to be at any physical location to make sure that things are running smoothly. Cameras and artificial intelligence are designed to spot things like screws or bent springs were damaged batteries all in real time. So yeah, this is an example of something that people you know the idea of putting cameras on the assembly line, so you could look and see what was happening. That's not new. But. This company finally made it work. This is the way it said Oh. We can make this so that it is a replacement for you having to be here in person to the to the point that Motorola and clear. We're using this before the virus. Monitor lines like this isn't like. Hey, maybe it'll work now. This is again kind of like the streaming acceleration of an existing trend. I was once on a flight with one of these Apple Quality Assurance engineers, and she told me a great story about how she was very very aware of her favourite hotel bar, in Shanghai and how she would take her daytrip and tear down a few. Products that she was set there to tear down. Make sure everything was okay and then make sure. She got right back to that hotel bar because she was going to be on on a flight. Out, as soon as tour of duty, it ended. That could last as long as a few months. Sometimes, she was there for a significant period of time, nor at least this retelling on this flight where she particularly happy about it, so I could imagine that this is something that apple could use, and you're right Tom. This is just forcing the issue like now. Okay now you can't go to China even if it's just a company that has infinite money and is just all right. Go literally. Put this woman in a hotel, so she can drink in. Look at ter tore down. For three months. Now you can't do that. What's the best way to do it? And this seems like a an effective and more drilled down version of quality control well. She was probably really good at her job. She wanted like he's like you said you know you're over there for months at a time I mean that's that is extremely disruptive to anybody's life you know maybe some people enjoy it. Probably a lot of people don't but who? Who else is going to do it this job so to be an engineer who has a lot of skills that can be put to different uses because some of that just kind of like. How's it going on the assembly line type? Stuff can be sent to you remotely. Just it seems like such a no brainer I know there's more to it than just like wasn't anything of it before. Obviously people have but but. It's a good solution. Yeah, because before the angles weren't right. You didn't see the things you needed. The system couldn't spot stuff you wanted to, and it looks like maybe This instrumental Incas figured it out. The facebook photo transfer tool that launched in Ireland. At the end of Twenty nineteen is now available globally. The feature lets users directly copy facebook photos to Google photos with an encrypted transfer, rather than having to download and re upload them yourself. The option transfer a copy of your photos and videos is found in the settings menu your facebook information facebook support for other services beyond Google photos is indeed being built now that feature is part of the open source data transfer project. Yeah, and that's that's the big thing. You should be aware of if you weren't. we had this in the US Canada Europe for Awhile I. Think came along around April earlier this year, but now it's everywhere. It's super simple you. I, I did it. You press a button you're you're it tells you okay. It's in process and your photos show up over there. It's so much easier than having to download. Where is it what folder and the data transfer project is an effort by these companies to stay ahead of antitrust legislation. At least in one sector that might have forced them to do stuff like this and say hey. We're making it open, so you can take your data with you granted right now. It's just facebook and Google. It's just photos, but this is the beginning of the ability to move your data around between services, and that's something I want to keep an eye on. Yeah I'm curious to see. Obviously, this happened. Because of facebook was under pressure, but I think it's a fairly. It obviously took a lot to build, but it's it's a low calorie. Give for them, and it shows you the evolving market of what these walled gardens really required to thrive. Google Threat Analysis Group announced. It had recently identified phishing attacks against personal email accounts from staffers on both. President trump's and vice president. Biden's. Google sent a warning to the targeted campaign staffers on both campaigns as well as learning federal law enforcement officials about the attempted attack. The attacks against the Biden campaign staffers appear to have originated in China and the attacks against the trump campaign staffers up peer to originated in Iran Those are best estimates It's it's easy for someone. In another part of the world to make it appear like their attacks coming from somewhere else, but the threat analysis group is pretty good, those kinds of forensics. What's the significance of this host politics politics politics? Well, it certainly was something that became a major issue after the DNC got hacked and the Hillary. Clinton campaign got hacked specifically after. One of the higher ups there, John Podesta clicked on a spear phishing link, so if this is something that was being tempted by on both the Biden and the trump campaign's. It is certainly no surprise. To me, this is. The new normal if you are if everybody has to deal with spear phishing attack, you can only imagine that the prize is that much richer when you are looking at a heightened media environment and remember how much of a chaos bomb those, but s two emails were and those DNC emails where the DNC emails were released the day or two days before the Democratic National Convention last year, so you can only imagine even if these were successful, I mean these are been detected if they are successful from somebody else that clicked on some of these links, then you never know when these kind of a treasure trove of information will pop up. ALL RIGHT FOLKS! If you WANNA, get all the tech headlines each day about five minutes. Be Sure to subscribe to daily Tech Headlines Dot. com. Tech companies are under fire for the tech. They sell to law enforcement right now I. Don't think you need me to explain to you why there's a lot of opinions about law enforcement right now. Amazon sells hundreds of law. Enforcement agencies facial recognition tool called recognition with Kate. On. among the interesting things about recognition, a researchers at the University of Toronto Mit. Did a study that found the recognition misidentified people with darker skin more often than those with lighter skin, particularly females, but also males Amazon says that that research is flawed. They denied that claim, said you. You don't have the most current version of the Algorithm Amazon has also been criticized for its ring doorbell video-sharing partnerships with police departments. They've also modified those to change it to be under the control of the Ring Person Very clearly whether you would hand over video to the police department rather than just on an ongoing basis, being able to improve it on a case by case basis. As not just Amazon Google has been criticized for working with Geo fencing warrants. These are warrants that permit the police to request anonymous information for phones in an area surrounding crime. So you say, give me give me this boundary line any information anonymous information on on activity there, and then if the police with that information can narrow down suspects, they can get a warrant to get user names and location data. Four specific devices geofencing are criticized for sometimes being overly broad in the area. Loud then again Google says. We just comply with warrants so if there's a problem with geofencing more than. We should work on reforming geofencing mourns Google also pulled out of a contract to help the Department of Defense Developed Machine Vision Technology for drones, so Google has bowed to pressure in the past. Who Else Microsoft partners with the New York? Police Department on a system that aggregate data from a network of cameras, delivering license plates, and other database driven devices, IBM sells machine learning tools for predictive policing in an attempt to predict future crimes, spots, and sometimes actual future criminals. But again. What kind of. These data sets that these machine learning algorithms are trained on IBM. D, to use images of New Yorkers to train AI tools. Without necessarily getting the permission of everybody in those images. And next door. has been criticized for tolerating racial profiling by its users. Next door has taken action told wired that it has seen profiling decline since it began requiring more detailed information before reporting someone as suspicious. If you just try to type something on next door, sometimes it'll pop up and say hey. It sounds like you're trying to say this. Have you thought about that you? Can you add these more details? There's also problems with salesforce and other companies out there. Microsoft and Amazon is sponsoring the International Association of Chiefs of Police Conference in New Orleans later. This year Microsoft also has been an advocate for. Having legislation about facial recognition how it should be used. They have leverage. They have lobbying have relationships. Should they all just stop selling this technology? Geoffrey Alpert Criminology, professor at the University of South Carolina who serves as a member of the International. Association of Chiefs of Police Research. Council told protocol that if these companies step back from providing technology law, enforcement agencies would find other vendors. Quote someone's going to sell it to the police to make money. So it might be principled from Microsoft or Google Amazon to stop providing their technology, but that would not necessarily stop law enforcement from using that technology, because they might be able to find and probably would be able to find another vendor. So the question is what do you want them to do? You Know I. Think the biggest thing here is transparency and specifically pushing for that when you are dealing with law, enforcement or governmental contracts Let's also remember that you know Google of sold, Boston Dynamics and part of at least the rumored reason. Why was because Boston? Dynamics was inherently going to move more into a defense contractor? Model and Google did not or alphabet did not want. That to be necessarily such a gigantic part of their portfolio. The reason why people do this is because the money's big, and it's good, and it never goes away you can. You can continue to cash that check if a system is built on, this is government in general law, enforcement is no exception. Do not change systems all that often. They don't nimbly go from one thing to another, so if you can get a law enforcement contract, that is a lot of long term money and specifically looking at the. People who are sponsoring the Association of the Chief of Police Chiefs of Police Microsoft an Amazon both sell aws Azure, and they want people to be on those platforms, and they build products specifically for law enforcement, so they can secure those contracts including some of the ice stuff so all I would ask, and all I've ever asked him by the way. This is only gonNA become more of a problem. Upfront as up front end detailed as you possibly can within the agreements and should the agreements become too opaque than I. Do believe it is our consumer right to hold them accountable for that. And in a situation like recognition and Amazon Sane. We'll. Our software is not recognizing certain people over other people. That's just not happening, but there's a study that says it is happening. It's on Amazon to say okay well. Maybe the people who are making the software you know we we have to. We have to rethink that. Maybe we need you know another group of folks who are making sure that the people making the software are not introducing biases that are going to become problematic later on I. Don't think a lot of this. This technology is inherently bad I. Mean it's all about you know. Get the bad guys. Protect the good people, but batgirls, but but but it, but it is rife with issues, so it kind of falls on the people at the end of the day. that WHO's making this. Why are they making this? And and and what are they thinking but Amazon would answer you Sarah to say no. We've done all that. It's these researchers were looking at an old version of the algorithm. Okay I mean. So. I mean but but. I think we point is instead of Amazon. Being well, that's wrong. We are not GonNa Dan Age right now of people being like Amazon on. The researchers stupid, so we'll just we'll just carry on with life. It's more of like no, here's why you might have thought this. Here's why we really care that that wouldn't happen. And here's what we're doing to make. Sure that that doesn't happen. In the future I mean one answer to this. Could be. Don't worry about IT companies sell your products. Law Enforcement needs him and and don't listen to the folks complaining I. Don't know that that's tenable situation for for companies to do right now. they are on immense pressure inside and out to take this seriously and pay attention, so they will possibly lose customers and employees You know we're seeing petitions walkouts. So companies are probably wise to pay attention to this and not just ignore it. The other side would be to say just stop selling altogether. Don't sell the law enforcement, but again it's not a flimsy excuse to say well, but does that solve the problem if someone else just steps in and sells them. Is it better if these companies take their privileged position and use it to have better rules? That's what I would like to see is Microsoft and Amazon and Google and salesforce. Saying you know what we're GONNA improve. Amazon is going to say we're not just going to tell you it's better we're going to do. What Justice said we're. We're GONNA affect transparency. We're going to tell you how it's better. We're going to admit where it's not better. We want to push for legislation that will put limits on how it can be used. which is what Microsoft is doing. It's pushing for legislation because private companies. Just not selling isn't really ineffective tool in a marketplace as open as this. Where lawn I can just go. Buy It somewhere else. You need to come up with sensible rules that say hey. The technology isn't good enough to do these things yet, but it is good enough to do these things. Let's come to a reasonable accommodation that helps law enforcement. Do their jobs properly? And accountably. and. They'RE GONNA THEY'RE GONNA. Get a vendor and that vendor of Amazon came out and said we are absolutely not doing this then the team that would develop it could spin out. Create their own company Hook Aws, because they already know exactly how to take best advantage of it and aws would still get the money for whatever their server cost, but it'd be another company that would come out and do it like this. This is the genie's out of the bottle. On this particular issue, it's just a matter of how you can do it. The most effectively and the most ethically I think really good a really good statement from thrown Walden. Our chat is this new. How do we even know all the things that could be wrong with it? And that's important to take into account, which is, there are things you know it can do. And those are the things you should allow. There are things that might be able to do those things you to be really careful about you need to try them and test them responsibly to improve them, and then there's things you know aren't ready yet. And those should be kept in the lap and not used in public. Well thanks, everybody who participates in our sub reddit. Lot of security stories end up there every day, and you help us learn what matters to you submit your own stories. Vote on others at daily Tech News Show Dot, ready dot, com all right. Let's check out the mail bag. Oh, let so on. Yesterday? We were talking about this sort of like fun. Fantasy idea that some of us have on the show of having like a coffee shop, but also where the podcast happens, so it's like it's part. You know place to go hang and get your coffee or your or a sandwich or something, and also partly a place to your show. And somebody wrote in unfortunately did not get his name, but he said it. We had something like that in Pittsburgh. In fact real, we'll place. It was a restaurant that served waffles was also a talk show. It's called the waffle shop. That's what we're going to do. A. Pack your bags everybody. We're moving into the wealth. Brian, thank you Brian Thank you Brian. waffle shop. A reality show was performance, Art, project and restaurant in the East Liberty neighborhood of Pittsburgh operated by Carnegie Mellon University students. That's. That's so great. How long term plan of the daily show great? Yeah, it turns out. We all have to live close by, but we can had our coffee shops like everybody on friends. It's great. Hey, shot after patrons at our master and grandmaster levels including at Read Fischler Paul Reese and Mark Gibson also thanks to Justin Robert Young, host politics politics politics. What's been going on in your world nothing? I assume Oh man. You know a very serious episode yesterday kind of went out of our format, and did kind of more of a breakdown of our relationship with the police, specifically in reaction to everything that's going on right now and the murder of George Floyd but We are back to our regular format. Tomorrow we got a great interview about the the of nineteen, Fifty, seven and nineteen, sixty eight, why they're different, and we got some great little tidbits in there, including where social distancing our modern idea of social distancing came into the public health playbook. Hey thank you everybody for continuing to stick by US in support. US patriotic means the world I put up an editor's desk today for everyone, usually the editor's desk. Folks at the associate producer level and above but this one went out to to the whole batch. If you're wondering why you got it. 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