Track Your Sleep to Optimize Your Life | Harpreet Rai on Health Theory
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It is quite literally whatever you guys wanna talk about whatever you ask. We're going to go into it. I really port myself into this show. I give it my everything, man. If I've ever added value to you guys want you to check out the show. Let me know you think you can check out an episode two day and see what all the fuss is about. I promise it will be worth your time. All right, guys. Enjoy and be legendary everybody welcome to help theory. Today's guest is Harpreet ri-. He's a former investment banker turned entrepreneur who is the CEO of aura ring asleep tracking company that is doing its best to help. Us all live our best lives and her Brite. What I want to know about is. Why exactly the sleep matter? It's a loaded question. A great way to start. I think sleep matters for a bunch of different reasons. I think Shawn Stevenson said it really really well to your overall wellbeing and your health and your performance sleep. Probably does have a greater impact and both diet and activity combined. But the reality of it. We all know it when we get a bad night of sleep. We feel like crap right? We're not productive for sort of grouchy to the people around us can't perform well in the gym, right? And oftentimes just have low energy. So there's a whole host of reasons on the health side. But also just literally how you feel and how you know how you feel about life and your mood a lot of that has to actually come comes back to comes back to sleep. If you had to push beyond what we know. 'cause I know people are super tense about what I'm about to ask you if you had to push me on your no and went into hypothesis or what you suspect. What is it exactly that you think is happening when we sleep like, sure? So we know the brain is like getting out, but what what else is going on. I think if you one way I like to think about it is, you know, your body actually is operating mainly because of release of certain hormones at serum periods of time and a lot of that has governed by something called like a central clock. Right to your body. Right. So we call that that kind of science circadian biology, and it's a relatively new science as you pointed out, there's not a lot we know. But if you want to think about actually, hey, what time do I get tired? And then when I get tired, and I go to bed what's actually happening. Why are certain fluids moving through my brain and removing toxins. Right. Why are actually memories throughout the day? Being sped up at three times the speed during ram sleet to help. You learn why certain hormones being released actually bring your heart rate in your blood pressure down probably for you to recover bed. Right in wise. More to stop stone and growth hormone released all these things are happening because of this master clock, right and sleep is actually one of the governing factors that sets the time for all those things to happen and for the next day as well. So I think if I were to theorize that having disrupted sleep or starting this clock or your engine. You know, if you want to think about that at different times or fragmented times doesn't allow your body and your mind to recover and funk. In the way, it should to lead a normal life, or you know, a great life where you can achieve your potential. Yes. So one thing like in today's society, where I'm certainly somebody who talks a lot about this like working around soft grinding hard like really pushing part of the reason that I'm so into talking bus leave, and I want people to really understand how powerful it is is I worry that people think when I say that that I'm saying sleep doesn't matter and win. In fact, I'll say that is probably from an experiential standpoint is one of the most important things from cognitive optimization standpoint. What drew you to sleep like, what's the background with the German, banking and all that stuff? I think it's pretty interesting. Yeah. I mean, I would say I was always interested in technology. That was probably like a passion of mine along with performance. So I did study electrical engineering and college and worked on actually the sensors that go in these types of devices. I got distracted as most people to in life, and I decided to go into finance really because I had a lot of debt. And I thought it was a cool thing to do. Right. And I guess what? I just experienced firsthand was my first year of investment banking. I came in weighing about one hundred forty pounds. And I'm like five five on a good day. Maybe five six when my turban. But like, you know, I went from one hundred forty pounds to about one hundred eighty five oh and about fifty weeks. So almost a pound a week. And I actually even back in college was probably like more health conscious, and what a eight bright didn't really drink that much was actually eating a lot of plants. My parents vegetarian grew vegetarian and my diet didn't really change a lot. And so I'm sitting here thinking, well, basically eating the same. In fact, I'm eating less, right? Not moving around much. So yeah, I'm not working out. But I'm eating less. Why am I gaining pound every week? And that's actually when I started realized like, well, okay. I'm gaining a lot of weight actually, isn't hair. No. You can't see it which is great. But visit hair, right. And my skin is actually starting to look grayish like literally had friends who I hadn't seen from college seem after the year. And they're like like, dude, we know you've got a great job at on Wall Street, but like looks like you've gained forty fifty pounds. And like you look like crap. So that's when I started actually just researching law and learning about sleep. I just started to like member forgetting things and that never happened to me. So I the more and more learn about the issues the correlations with lack of sleep and weight gain. And, you know, same thing with skin, and how you look and also how you feel it became obvious to me how how important sleep was just from experiencing it, right? So what what is some of the biological disruption? That happens when we don't get sleep. Like, I know that there's some pretty crazy like if you're just looking at somebody's data, and they had a bad night sleep and triggered them looking like a pre diabetic from their insulin response levels. What else is going on? Biological level that that sleep effects? So there's tons of studies out there not just one, but literally probably close to one hundred showing that the lack of sleep is associated with elevated glucose levels. I think that happens for a series of reasons there's two hormones that. You know, we know today are pretty popular and controlling your appetite. And also how full you feel after you eat there was in controlling your hunger. Hormone right like how hungry. Do you get how do you feel and then leptin, right? How satiated are you after you eat how do you feel in? So I think one of the studies that was done show that basically a four hour verse eight hour night, and it was almost like your your leptin levels. Right. Went down by fifty percent. So even after you eat, you still feel hungry, and then you agree with levels. Right. Are actually shooting up. So you feel hungry or you eat, and you feel less full. And I think probably the reasons that's happened. In the past is if you if you think about the times, maybe, you know, historically in a paleo era Kelly Olympic area where we were probably operating on very little sleep there. Probably under extreme conditions. Maybe we're being hunted. Maybe we were hunting. Right. And so I think some of that was designing this is designed for your body to happen that hey under periods of stress like you're looking for food more you're trying to eat more store, more, right? But in today's world and society, right? Those same conditions of less sleep. You know, aren't aren't applied right in the same way. So it might have been designed for a good reason. But, but in fact, now is probably hurting us going back to that first year in investment banking and thinking about the modern context when we're not getting sleep. I know that while I am a huge proponent of sleep. There have been times where my or ring has told me off for not getting enough sleep. And I'll say that twenty percent of the time I am knowingly reducing my amount asleep. And how do you think about that is the CEO of a sleep betterment company? Are there times where you'll intentionally not get sleep? Because there's a bigger priority worse like goals versus sleep. Where'd y'all on that? I think there's definitely a periods that we all will have to go without getting enough sleep. Right. I think that's inevitable. The question is how do we make people more aware of it and more conscious of it? Right. And how do we also then once that awareness and consciousness happens choose to act on it? Even while on Wall Street. I ended up going from an investment at Morgan Stanley for your investment banking group. I'm going to hedge fund for nine years, and I still worked really hard there got more sleep. Luckily, but. There used to be paying I wanna work out, and I want to get fit. So I'd wake up at four forty five to be in the gym by five fifteen. So I often battled. Okay. You know, getting enough sleep to work out. Right. And I'm probably actually led to a lot of injuries from me over the years. I also think it's about social activities with friends, you know, it's natural to want to spend time with people. And oftentimes, you know, everyone's sort of sacrificing your schedule a little bit to do it. I think if you have families or loved ones that can be another area where like, hey, you got to take the kids to an event or you gotta take him out to party, and they may throw your schedule off. But the big one, I do think is work. I think it's there's a lot of people probably a lot of your audience. Right. Even even me like we want to kick butt, right? We want to get in. We wanna work hard as the CEO of a company asleep company. I'm like do I want those guys sleeping in our lesson? Working on this to get it out in time, or you know, there's always a balance, and I think, you know, we're not going to be able to I would say change people's lives and not say prioritizes. Projects or not. But we wanna make people more aware of it. And that they can see the impact when they are choosing to do it. And then frankly, come back and recover all have people now to tell me, hey, man, I still go on business trips where I am back to back to back meeting right nine to nine right? And then like, maybe I brush my teeth. And maybe I don't because I'm that busy that night. Right. But then when I get back. I see, hey, it takes me a week or two to get back and recover. And then I take it a little bit easier book less meetings. Then right. I tend to try to actually get that extra hours sleep. And I'm not saying that kind of behavior is great. But at least you become a little bit more conscious and don't try burn into the candle on both ends forever. So I think it's there's a lot of things I've happened that we have abundant information. Right. Look look at Google's mission statement right organize. The world's information and provide access to sign me up. Right. And I want to I want to always be learning. I want access to information in a Facebook. Right. Like bring communities together bring people together, right? There's more people that we can meet through social media. Right. Follow and learn from sounds amazing. But I think also in those two things right? We are getting a little bit pulled away. And in fact, is hurting our sleep which eventually actually hurts productivity in the long run. And and what ways do you think that that kind of stuff is hurting our sleep? Is it just that? We're allocating time to it. Or is there a whole 'nother host of I I think it's much deeper than just time. Let's stick Facebook as an example. All right. Let's say when we were on high school and hung out in one friend's basement. Right. Or you have a couple of friends over. All right. We're hanging out where shooting the shit, right? We're talking about whatever we'll catch up on some cute, girl, math class or sports or the New York Knicks game that just happened. But think about it this way. Every ten minutes the doorbells ringing, your hosting you're going up and lending that person in making sure they're comfortable making sure that they have a drink, right? Making sure that they've place to sit and hang out with friends. Introducing other people. What if that happens every ten minutes not just for the first hour, but for the next twelve hours, right? What happens to you? Right. What happens everyone else in the room? Right. Like, it's just thinking about that as a human. I'd be like man, you never you never even get a chance to see how you feel you never get a chance to really spend time with your friends. Right. Your concept being bombarded. So I think I think that's part of it. I think the same could go true for Google. Like, I love learning. Right. I would say that's like one thing I've always been passionate about and why I like doing different things. But if every ten minutes something new pops up where like, hey, I was learning about this. I didn't get to go that deep and understand it and something else comes in like, you're just getting distracted. And so I literally look at the numbers. I'm a numbers guy. You know, there's you touch your phone. The average person does about one hundred. Fifty times a day. Right. So if you're awake for sixteen hours that's about ten times every hour. That's once every six minutes. Right. So I think there's a deeper level of hey, there's some satisfactions just like the buzzer. Give the party when you say Hello to someone that you haven't seen in a while. And you're excited, but that constant bombardment right is is actually increasing anxiety. Right. It's I don't think it's you know, we have abundant access to information and people, and I think that's great. But also, let's look at some of the other numbers depression, all time high suicide rates all time high lack of sleep all time high right obesity, all time high. And so I think it's not just that you're spending the time doing it. I do think it's a little bit in the way we were designed as humans that's distracted us. And I think it's alternately taking us away from our being conscious and being focused, and what do you mean, really fast? What do you mean that the way that we're designed as humans is part of what distracts us? So I don't. I don't think is humans when they look at some of the network is out there on the brain. And how compartments information really more than fifty people in your immediate circle like that you interact with tends to be overloading. But like you have these different groups, right? I might be immediate group family and really close friends, then maybe one degree of separation, and it may be another host of work. Right. But now that that has five x ten x twenty x right? And I think like it becomes harder for the human mind. Right. And even just from social anxiety perspective. Whether you have it or not to manage that as all these networks, grow so much. Yeah. When I think about what really plays on people sleep lifestyle death. And it Lee comes up one thing that I think a lot about and partly because I guess I'm so it doesn't work for me is how many people now smoke weed. Yeah. And it's a fact on Remm sleep. So I looked at the ring stats if people that I know smoke weed, it's fucking crazy. Easy like their Rhames. Leap is next to nothing. Walk me through some like what are the phases of sleep? Sure. And what are some like known lifestyle stuff that people may not not about there have like that big impact? Like, we does on our room, sleep assure. Yeah. I mean, sleep scientists aren't that imaginative so the numbered she's asleep. But I guess aside from a numbers the way most people now know them as sort of light sleep, you know, Remm sleep and deep sleep, and then the Ford stage, let's or one of the other stages being awake. So focus on remedied. I think there's been more research done there. And actually what happens. So in deep sleep. What we know is that this period happens in the earlier part of the night. It tends to be when more things are related to your physical body. Right. Like your stone and growth hormone or mainly released during sleep your muscle repair. Even your skin in college in repair is happening. Deep sleep Remm sleep from what we know in a lot of this is very new science, right? A lot more about memory consolidation. Right. That that's actually when your brain is playing things, you know, at three x speed to help you remember them by repetition. How we know it's happening at three X. So that's by looking at just FM, our eyes and various other EEG type equipment. There's even some new work being done and one of the things that they're showing is if you can actually implant a thought during the early phases of sleep, actually, you can almost potentially trick your brain to work on it during REM sleep on tell me more. What do you mean? How do you implant the idea there? This is very very experimental. So I think the idea is, hey, can you actually bring a thought either through a visualization through an audience or you go to bed you're saying there was immediate minutes while you're falling asleep. Yeah. Sort of like inception. It's starting to get pretty nuts out there. Okay. So. Finish up because this is so interesting. So what have they done in the studies like what necessarily owns on? Is it someone saying something to this is super experimental like nothing yet? They just had a conference all about this like, basically, helping people dream and have certain thoughts during REM sleep that can help them solve problems in their lives. So some really cool work. But yeah. I wish I wish I knew more. But it's literally happening as we speak. But getting back to sort of why these things are happening, and what you know. So deep sleep your physical body being restored. Right Ramsey thinking about your mind and your memories and your consolidation. Now, we also know deep sleep has some other some other things that are happening there that are also related to your brain. So I think actually Matthew Walker talked about this. He runs Berkeley sleep lab that there certain proteins, and inflammation. That's actually cleared away at certain periods during deep sleep high prevalence of that plaque has been shown to correlate with Alzheimer's and early Alzheimer's. So during deep sleep it turns out that actually certain types of these fluids right are actually clearing your clearing, your your brain. Which is pretty cool. So there's a lot. We're still learning about the different stages asleep as certain things that help or hurt the different stages. I would say excess use of cannabis or alcohol definitely hurt sleep across all stages. I have seen actually on the other side specifically with cannabis that certain types, whether it's CBD and actually CB CBN that actually have been shown and small amounts to actually help improve sleep. So I think there is different stages or improves one stage. It looks like it helps people ages fall asleep and stay asleep. So some people that may have trouble flying asleep, which is almost greater than fifteen percent of the population. Now. Oh, yeah. And then also helps with specifically deep sleep from. But this is early research again hard to do just because of the rules with cannabis today and doing academic or medical research. Some of the things we see though from our data is being consistent in time helps your body gets used to that clock. That's you're kidding clock. And you know, that master clock that's covering everything. So then you start if you go to bed certain time you end up waking up at the same time. Even without an alarm like yourself. That's one big thing. I think timing of food happens to be another, dude. I will tell you from my wife's experienced who has had Nassif microbiome issues. Yeah. I totally discounted food timing. I was like my I'll eat Dan go right to bed. Never once thought about it. So when people I sort of saying, whatever like there's no way it's that impactful. It's your biggest nervous connections here brain in your stomach. And so if you think about this, I yeah. Hours of digestion that happened in your happen. You know, when you eat it's sort of hard for your Vegas nerve to relax, right, right? During those first few hours, if you just eat an hour before you go to bed like your brain is actually not going to be really relaxing and so hard to get actually a lot of deep sleep. So that's one of the biggest hacks. We've seen sort of people change right and see an immediate impact in their data. I would say also timing of caffeine. So trying to get your caffeine in almost like more than twelve hours before you go to bed. So I think that's another big one just given a half-life of caffeine and now not everyone sensitive caffeine. But I would say eighty percent of the population is and then also getting enough. Sunlight, you know, we sit a lot indoors like, right? Like were and data affects us at certain points at night. If we're looking at our screens looking at a blue screen, right? That doesn't help us produce melatonin the way we used to. But also the opposite's true just getting light exposure during the day, right? Let's your brain. No. Hey, it's daytime in your alive. Writing should start releasing these hormones, and so I think that's that's another big thing that probably would help a lot of people really interesting. What do you think about blue blockers? I think blue blockers are excellent. I think all day or just at night. So if you look at sort of the reason as to what happens when son goes down, there's no longer any blue light out there. And so that's actually signal to your brain to start producing melatonin, which helps you feel drowsy which helps you go to bed. And so if you have exposure to that blue light at night. Your brain doesn't get the same reaction to release that melatonin. And so as a result, I would say, hey, when the sun goes down, you know, put on those blue blockers, some people, I think if you're under certain conditions, like, you know, which most people, unfortunately are with certain types of fluorescent light or really close working to screen you may want to try blue blocker during the day as well. But we've seen that have a huge impact on our users data. So if we're going to optimize the shit out of our sleep, and we were going to become like Olympic level sleepers get the most recovery, which is something that we should definitely talk more about what what's like that optimal. Forget that. I have a job forget I have outside of sleeping. She's like my job in life, demise. What would I do? So start me. I wake up you wake up, and let's get consistent time of waking up. Okay. So get that exposure to sun and light in the more immediately within the first hour what if I wake up like? I wake up typically two to three hours before the sun comes up is that actually badge should I be trying to change my sleep cycle. No. There's probably still ambient light out there from the sun. Even though you can't directly see it interest. So just go outside even if it's dark, I would say, especially as the sun starts to rise. Okay. It'll be more. So at sunrise, I'm going outside get some sun exposure, and there lay their walk run doesn't matter. Just any exposure your skin's going like, what are you walk? What are you sit? What unclothe do I need to my standing out naked? No matter what I'm the less close to science would say the better. But at the same time, I think a lot of it is built into sort of your face and specifically right your glands behind the eyes. So I think just getting exposure to your is is really important as well. Okay. So get some sunlight how much sunlight should I get? So the sun is rising for an hour. I would say this is my job. This is your job as much as you can if this. So I should be outside. Surely, I'm assuming in the shade to not burn but out in the sun as much as. As much as you can. Okay. I was a second. If you're gonna have caffeine have it within those first job. Should I avoid caffeine? I'm not going to tell people to void caffeine because I think most people won't also think coffee tastes phenomenal. And there's also oxidants in coffee. So I'm actually believe everything in moderation. But have that first Cup or second Cup, you know, greater than if I can if it's your job, you know, fourteen hours before you go to sleep. So within those first two hours awaking, I would say next after that getting exercise specifically getting exercise earlier in the day and not in the late afternoon. We'll help seven days a week. This is an exercise that's an exercise conversation out of sleep conversation. I think there are certain days you want to go hard and certain days. You're gonna wanna go white. Okay. I think the problem is most people go hard all the time right which doesn't help. Either light activities specially can help improve sleep and not to complicate this. And I don't want to get distracted from our optimization conversation. But so knowing when to work out, I know is one of the things you guys talk about the app. So the heart rate variability. Is going to be my ideal thing to look at to know, whether I should be working out. Or is there something else, I should pay attention? I would say in terms of like when to work out the best way, we tell people to do is is try different things. And then see what happens to your data. Like, I used to play a lot of soccer grownup whenever we at away games. I never knew why the next day. I was so tired. It's normally because the game was later, and I got home later, and I slept later. And even if I got seven or eight hours of sleep, I still felt like shit because of the timing because of the timing was thrown off, right? And also most likely because like your body gets all jacked up playing under the lights right right before you go to bed. So that. Yeah. That would affect that that definitely affected it a lot. So I think ideally, what we've seen is some people have rhythms where they want to work out early in the morning, which is fine. Other people tends to be sort of right after the afternoon lull. So not seven I would say generally not seven or eight that's typically too late. But if you want to think about from like four to six that might be more ideal. But better yet we've seen from our data is people who. Workout earlier tend to sleep better. So even in those I call it, you know, by hours to six hours a week and up if you can fit it into your schedule, but just really fast on the data point. So what do I look at that? Would tell me whether today's like data go hard in the gym data take it easier or even not work out what actual data. So we actually have come up with a score called a reading score. And that's based on that's based on actually you're rolling two week average of oath, your sleep and your activity. So if your heart rate is really elevated night data actually impact your writing the score the next day interest. So there's a bunch of different factors in the app, and you can click on each one and actually see it. So the time of your resting heart rate like how when that happened that lowest career happened. And the absolute value is something that'll affect it. And that's impacted by when you work out. And when you eat. We also look at respiration rate as well throughout the night is another indicator, but I would say it's a combination of like you're rolling sleep average. Right. Plus, some of your heart rate and physiological data and your general activity balance that will tell you to like, workout hard or not. So if you're pretty sedentary, and all of a sudden, you go work out quite a bit, right? That one day like you're gonna feel tired the next day. And you should take it easy because your body's not used to that load and you'll see that reflected in the readiness score. Okay. So that's what we've used them. We've created to help people sort of figure out what day they showed workout. And what did they should push hard? I would say generally some other things like data within the data like that people look at or the amount of deep sleep to see like, hey do. I feel physically really good right to actually work out hard today. And then also heart rate, very ability. What is up impact? Hope you guys are enjoying this episode wanted to give a quick shout out to our sponsors. And then we'll get right back to it. Remember our sponsors are all hand chosen. We love these guys and think that they have something incredibly valuable to offer. So. Be sure to give a listen a lot of these guys are doing special offers just for you. Guys are friends at butcher box. 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Use the code health theory at WWW dot organic fi dot com to receive twenty percents off your order, and that is O R G A N, I F I dot com and again, use the code health theory to get twenty percents off. You're all right guys in joy and be legendary. What impacts deep sleep? So if we'd is one of the things can re it is so pronounced, and that's why I keep harping on this in terms of like, you could compare my Ren to somebody who smokes weed, and it it is night and doing on of Ren that they're getting so what something that impacts deep sleep. I would say all these things we've talked about they impact both stages. So eating late will impact both your deep and your ram smoking. Too much marijuana will impact both your deep angiogram. Right. Shifting off the timing of when you go to bed and how punctual and regular that is will impact your deepen ram. So I don't know if there are certain things specific to certain stages, I do tend from what we see people that have late Neal's tend to impact the deep sleep more than ram. But I don't think there's been a lot of studies done yet with certain phases asleep in certain activities. So if you tend to be extremely athletic and work out a lot we have seen those people actually have more deep sleep. So when we had some Georgia FRANZ writers who were willing to share their data without revealing their names and the teams and stuff like that. And it was phenomenal amount of deep day got even in their mid thirty some of them even later, I mean, these guys were getting two hours a night. And we'll we'll often see that even in some of the pro athletes as well. And so I think if you think about what's happening during deep sleep all that muscle, reconstruction and repair growth hormone release to SaaS from release, your brain is adjusting to what you need right on the other hand, if you're super creative, you are focusing a lot on, you know, maybe concepts type of work artistic type work. Maybe even just, you know, guys thinking with numbers all the time soon behind a desperate and stocks. You might see lower deep sleep in higher. Remm sleet, so your brain cousin the lack of physical activity and also probably the more the memorial mental load is well interesting. Yeah. Okay. So your your brain is realizing that you probably need to consolidate those member. As more, right? There's more to remember this more things you were trying to learn during the day. So, you know, your brain your brain's, pretty smart. Yes. Okay. So we got through exercise. What is your mother things diet? Do we see that there's an influence on sleep with that? I generally do think that heavy sugars and carbs late too, much and access to bed can really hurt. You car boys specific sugar wise, specifically interesting. So what data do you like that feels right to me? But it just feels right? Is there any data that backs that up? There's been a lot more studies on food timing and sleep as far as the actual particular macro contents of that meal, you know, carbs protein fat haven't seen that proteins and fats take longer to digest. So in that sense, like as we talked about with the Vegas nerve in your digestion, maybe that's probably not helpful if it's within a short amount of window. So if you were to eat something closer to time, you might be better off with like a lighter carbohydrate meal, but not too much sugars, but not too much fat or. Protein interest. But what makes you think? And then that it sugar plays a role in disrupting sleep. Well, I would say most people tend to eat desserts, and when they eat desserts, they eat them late. Right. And so the other thing we know also about sugar is there tends to be a pretty big correlation, which sugar consumption and heart rate variability. It lowers variability. Yes. Interesting. Why don't we want heart rate variability like I get it? And I've heard it a million times. But I don't actually understand why that's good. So first of all, I guess explain to people what hurry variability is. And then giving some numbers, I think, it'd be helpful. I know you guys are a little cagey about telling people exactly what their number should be sure. Gently with Harvey variability the higher the better to hire. This. So what is our very ability your first question like the name says, it's the variability within your heartbeats. So what does that mean you and I are sitting here? You know, let's say we're at sixty beats per minute. Every single beat on every second is slightly different. So maybe one beat there is one second between the beats maybe the next one. There's one point one. Maybe the next one there's point nine seconds. But over a minute, it'll average to this sixty beats per minute, so high variation turns to actually be a sign it's counter intuitive of low stress, right? So yeah, it is it is counterintuitive right versus if each beat is super succinct tends to be individuals tend to have like a lower HR V score. Which means you're more of a sympathetic state within your nervous system. Meaning you you react quickly to your surroundings. Overreacts? Right. Exactly. So you might you might actually freeze so versus if you're if you're in a very fluid movement. If you think about it all of a sudden, you know. I don't know tiger jumps out there. Right. Deputy weird. It would be weird house. We'd be freaking out. Right. But someone who probably has higher heart rate variability. That's more of a pair of sympathetic state controlling himself. Right. Would be like, okay. I'm going to push Tom Wayne run that way. Right. Tigers. Cool, right. Like. But I'm going to you know, I might think on my feet a little bit quicker all grabbed his mug when I'm running away. So I can Chuck it at the Tigers face not that that'll help. I appreciate that more than me in front of it. But you know, someone in a fluid state if you think about it when you're fluid like something happens, and you're able to shift around in right? But if you're if you're hurt rate is like in that very mechanical beat you almost you're stressed, you're frozen. So that comes in you, just like like, you're you're stiff right? You're not able to shift. And so that's the best way. I can sort of describe it's super interesting. Okay. So how how does one drive their heart rate variability higher? Sure. I think a lot of things we talked about sleep tend to also help sleeping itself will change your heart rate variability most people will have higher HIV during when they sleep versus during the day. There tends to be lots of micro stresses during the day. You have two cups of coffee. You have to go the bathroom. It's a stressor here traffic, it's a stressor and actually tell you sort of your body and your mind like cumulates all that stress in reacts to over the course tonight, so sleep definitely like you'll tend to see your HOV dip in the early part of the night and go up towards the morning. So meaning like, you're recovering throughout the night. So most people I would say what we do know there's been a lot more research done on meditation. So in the beginning, actually, bad meditators are stressing out. So there tends to go down. But the more experienced meditation meditators tend to actually raise tribunal stressing out if they're bad at. Station. I mean, it's like you want to focus on, sir. Not you want to focus on not having all these thoughts come to your head. Right. So you tend to like try to focus and think too hard almost and you're like, wait. I shouldn't be having thought I shouldn't be having that an intense to be stressful. So I think that's what we've seen. So we have a meditation mode coming out soon that we have on that. Yeah. So what are you guys looking for in that in the meditation like heart rate variability, we're looking at heart rate variability, we're looking at heart rate. We're also looking at actually peripheral body temperature your core and your periphery tends to be pretty correlated at night. So we look at that change every single night and your ring, but actually even during meditating, very good meditators, and this has been documented even with some like Tabet and monks are able to actually like. Increase the circulation and the blood flow, and and actually have a positive impact on their on their temperature. It's another metric that we will report to people where you'll be able to track your medicine biofeedback and real time. So that I could see what I'm doing. We're trying to do too after the session. I think you know, one of those things you don't want to be distracted during it. But we're going to play around with and we'll see what people want and how they feel, but I do one of the things we're looking at doing different types of modes of meditation seeing if that has an impact on different types of people, you know, whether it's you know, TM or bake or whatever it might be. So maybe mindfulness sessions, right? Just having self gratitude and breathing right? Over trying to focus on the specific meditation type might be pretty interesting. So no, we're excited to release. We should have it out. You know, I would say before the end of April. Whoa. One thing. I will say that. I was. I was sad. By is that if I take a nap, you can't tell me if I like what my things were just shows up as rest. Yeah. Out the breakdown most people during naps first of all you don't tend to go into remedy sleep. Late. Just like, that's the first reason. The second reason is. Whenever we when we created the aura ring. Right. And we what we actually did is like all these other devices. Do you go and asleep? Blab you get the full equipment, and you put your devices on them, and you calibrate the algorithms and so trying to do sleep studies for naps is actually a lot harder on there isn't a lot of like good data on that versus overnight sleep labs. So that's that's another reason we are trying to make it more apparent in the app that you are having an app versus just that rest feature. But we're working on it. And maybe even for certain people maybe getting back to your your question of. Hey, if we want to be professional sleepers, don't nap elite, right? If you nap late later in the day, I would say like after four or five you actually end up hurting your sleep most often that night as well. So I think if you do look at some of the older cultures who would nap they tend to actually nap even some of them in the in the early like in the mid morning like before noon, and then I think also that's more in some in Africa. If you look at some of the old, cultural just sort of how anthropological type stuff, but then also say in the Latin culture tends not to go too late ride. So like you wanna hit that siesta time period not at five or six, but you know, maybe two or three right? What are some things you can't track right now, you think it'd be super meaningful? If you could it's a great question. I do think there's a lot of work being done on emotional like tracking motions emotions there's some work being done in Saint Louis. I forget which university that shows using HR and HR V mainly HR V data being able to would some self input be able to track emotions, I think that's pretty cool. So one one of the things that super interesting about or a ring and wearables and general, quite frankly is the amount of data. You must have is is really incredible. Sure. So would you start associating and saying, okay, these like three or four metrics and this pattern? Equal anger frustration sadness that kind of the way you. Typically do that right? Is again, you'd have to do it with the gold standard. I right. So you have to get a certain amount of participants or subjects right set up a study where you have fifty of them and get them to report certain motions and see if there's changes in physiological data that you can create an algorithm against and then you go and he predicted on another cohort. Let's say another twenty five people and see if it's true like pay show certain screens videos or audio like are you is this causing anger, right? And if we anger on the algorithm while man, I really think that would be pretty extrordinary. So going back to what you were saying earlier, we've got all this data coming in. And but we didn't we didn't even dive on this. And you mentioned like the suicide rates are like the highest. I've ever been in Alderson. And you know, we touch her devices one hundred fifty times a day, which is once every six minutes, which is really really terrifying. And when I think about some recent changes that I've made in my life for a different reason. But I'm seeing the impact that it has on my wellbeing, which is really really interesting is to shut off all alerts. So that no one can ring the doorbell when I'm trying to have the party with my friends basement nice analogy and that like being able to give people feedback on their emotions like, I'm even thinking. Okay, is the CEO one of the things I think about our our my is my team thrive by are is this the right place for them. And because I'm well aware, this is not going to be the right place for every human being knowing that they're able to like Yoko you've been seventy percent of your day has been spent in frustration anger or sadness like that would be so usable. And I think people get so blind really are like when I think about that my phone constantly like penny. It didn't dawn on me. How corrosive that was to my productivity for years. So to think that I could have had or or m currently having the same kind of blindness to an emotion or that. My teammates are having the same kind of blindness to their emotion. Like, wow, that'd be really really powerful. It'd be I guess we think about this internally. Right. And so one of the things we think about is our mission statement, right? So, you know, our our mission statement right is to empower people to own their potential ownership. Meaning like, you know, what you need to do to action be an peak state, right? And or, you know, have high potential, and what is high potential mean? Right. It can be sort of mental productivity can be emotional. Right. It can be physical, right? It can also be dietary as well. And so if we think about those states of sort of potential or even health write these four pillars of health, mental health, physical health, sleep, right and diet. We want to help people at Chievo and figure out what actually works for them and those different states, right? And. There's different areas of health and wellbeing. And so I think what's interesting is there's been a lot done inactivity. And a lot in diet. I think the reality is only about ten percent of people in the US workout every week ninety nine point nine percent of people sleep every night with go back. What percentage workout every week ten percent? Every week every week. Yeah. Now, ironically, actually, those who work out like it ends up being they end up working out like three times plus a week. So I wanted to work in we're actually working out pretty consistently. I didn't realize is that bad. Yeah. And then and then if you, you know, just thinking about those four things on sort of health and wellbeing. So there's activity there's diet sleep. And let's call it cognitive mental writing, but ninety nine point nine percent of people sleep every night and ninety nine point nine percent of people have some type of emotional or cognitive performance as well every day. Right. And I would say, you know, trying to get people to eat a certain way is pretty hard from a product. And I think we're going to get there in the future that will have better a are VR to like make it easier to ingest like what you're getting passively without typing, everything in my fitness bound, and then working out to I think there's been a lot done that was the first side of wearables. So I think like as to where like I would love or things I would love to be able to help measure sleep because that's sort of how you start your day. How you wake up how you feel right? As lot. Built on sort of like that thirty seconds. You spend with yourself in the morning when you're in bed decided to get up or not I think that sort of sets the day, and then also, you know, your feelings whether most of us realize it or don't anymore because every six minutes were distracted, right? Also have an impact, and I sort of how you feel and performed throughout the day. Right. And so I think if we think about what can go into a wearable that has an impact on your daily life, like those two areas to us as a company are are extraordinarily interesting. I think I think emotions is hard. And it's also scary. If you start to think about if you had that information if you're an advertiser. Think of you could design the perfect ad for the perfect person to have them feel seduction or arousal. Right. Right. So that gets a little scary. But now, I think they'll be ground truth of like, hey, actually, no, this is how I feel you know, the Ben and Jerry's carton of ice cream was designed for me to finish the whole thing. And that point right. This aren't patch. Kids had you know, hundreds of engineers, you know, figuring out exactly how to make it feel great. No matter sort of who you are. And what your taste buds are right? And so I think at the same time like if you do have this type of this type of technology. There are gonna be parties that are using it for their own profit. But I also think at the same time this technology is needed. So people understand that. Hey, this is what's happening to me wearing a continuous glucose, monitor is awesome. Because when you eat that pint of Ben and Jerry's you see that data and you're like holy cow. I am beyond diabetic eat that whole pint so I think data's empowering. And so can we be a platform that helps you connect with yourself and the like lifestyle choices at your make? During the day that have an ultimate impact on how you know what your potentially. What do you think about blood monitoring have? You worn a continuous glucose monitor. Yeah. Stop right. What should people be doing now to go out of their way to find that stuff or should they or maybe it's lifestyle? Like, what do you? You wore a continuous glucose monitor. So I'm assuming that you put some value personally in blood measurements. Sure. What else do you track in your own life man in my own life? I there's definitely been periods of my life when I do track. What I eat my body composition of my weight. Just as someone who gained a lot of weight and unwanted to lose. It. I found that extremely helpful for me to learn what was working with my body in. What wasn't? And so like, I did I probably tracked everything in a spreadsheet for three years every single meal at one point, you know, because after bang I got up to one hundred eighty five hundred ninety and then I got I got back. I got down to one thirty five. How'd you what was your protocol for losing the fat who? Oh, man. A lot of experimentation with spreadsheets, you know, do all through diet or were you working and working out and still wasn't focused on sleep? I wish I'd known more about it. Because that helps a lot too. So yeah, I tried. I I did Kito. I probably did Kito for a period of two years straight straight leasing construes. Yeah. And again, something I just didn't know at the time. Right. That hey might be actually beneficial to cycle. I probably lost the first twenty pounds, June Kito and working out. But then plateaued I actually shifted to just like, carb cycling. So, you know, more or less trying to be key to most of the time. But the days I work out, really hard have more carbs and just moderation ING, caloric, you know, having caloric deficit. So someone just tracking like if you don't know, and you struggle with weight like the Peter demata saying that he has on on your rules, right? Like if you don't have a target. You're guaranteed to miss it. Right. So I think that that helps blood work. I think is interesting. I think as we age. Especially like there could be early indicators there that long term health that are interesting to look at. I think sleep is like the leading indicator. You know from everything we know about sleep and impact on your hormones stasis and mental cognition individual like that to me became like, this is actually one of the easiest things to track that can actually end up not just impacting how you sleep but your whole day the next day. So that's why I was super fascinated by it, and you do it every night. Right. And it's I think it's it's harder to think of because it's not most people don't thinking think of it as something that it's an active state because it's a passive state dieting got gotta make a decision when you walk in that salad bar, right? Or you grab the burger and fries and the soda right? So it's an active decision at working out. Do I do high intensity? Workout cross do I do aerobic again an active decision. I think the sleep one of the reasons why it is now becoming popular, but it's taken some time to focus on it is because most people just think of just go to bed. I don't think about it. I just I turn out the lights I lay in bed, and you know, but now more people are struggling with it. I think now attention is coming. How can I improve it? And how can I sleep better? But I do think sleep is a really good leading indicator to track and one of the easiest ones less painful than writing spreadsheets. You don't even have to work out. You know, you can just wear device like ours and start to get, you know, figure out some small changes that might lead to big changes in how you feel in perform do different types of exercise have different effects on sleep. So if I'm just like, for instance, I lift I almost never do cardio is that going to have one sorta sleep pattern versus if I do just cardio, but I don't live or so. So you know, what the best exercise in the world is right? The one you're not doing. Interesting. Why just because variation matter? I think well, I think in in terms of just like mechanical structures, and whether you're flexible or strength, right changing, it up helps a lot. I think what we see from our data that I can speak about is that. Later in the evening, or even just in general, having light types of workouts mixed with heavy hard workouts, again at variation do actually help you recover. So we've seen it with some pro sports teams. We're working with they'll end up back. She's seeing that. Hey, you know, let's say pro football their HR V and their sleep. Maybe totally terrible come come Sunday night. And so when they look it on Monday, but we're seeing some of the teams start to do is alter the actual exercise protocol. So what they'll start to do is actually let's not go super heavy on the weights. Let's do some light cardio. Maybe thirty minutes of cardio with like some intervals in there. Right. And and do a lot of stretching mobility work right to help open up recover and that actually improves her asleep, which means they can hit it harder on Tuesday or Wednesday. And so I think we've seen in our data that these light workouts, and specifically probably more cardio, and sort of call it, mobility or flexibility. You know, yoga or even just foam rolling stretching. Do you can actually really improve your sleep quite a bit because it gets back into that same recovery state that you're in. Yes recovery. This really interesting. And I've heard you talk about how was Brady and somebody else you were talking about clocking. Lebron maybe Ron. Yeah. Something crazy and using the hyperbaric chamber. I mean, he does interesting now that I didn't hear so tell people hyperbaric oxygen is. And then tell me why. Sleep fairmont's and much with hyperbaric. So I can't speak to that one. I've seen it being used by a couple of different people athletes, also other certain types of individuals that are just super high performers super quantified self for by Packers where they use it for periods of time to almost 'cause that stress which then causes you to sleep better and recover better. But yeah, I think it's really really interesting. I think if you think about it, you don't get stronger in the gym, you get stronger actually out of the gym and the gym you're actually getting weaker. You're bringing muscle, Dan. Right. It's recovery process. Right. That actually happens that allows the muscle grows stronger and take a more continued load. And so I think people are sort of messing around with different types of stressors that might cause then greater recovery. So I think that's why hyperbaric chambers. Like as you put from a science perspective are a really interesting super interesting. Yeah. Speaking of more interesting stuff where can these guys find you online website is or a ring dot com? Just WWW dot. You are a ring are Angie dot com. Nice. Yeah. If people could only change one thing to have the biggest impact on their health. What would you want them to change? Well, I I would say sleep but in order to change your sleep. I think it's a couple of different things that we talked about. I do think when you just look at the science like I think there's a great analogy that Matthew Walker had if I could give you a pill in this Bill would improve your memory right help you live longer and fight off cancer. Reduce your blood pressure increase, the quality of your skin, and your hair and how you look. Also, your testosterone production and your muscle repair who wouldn't want to take that pill. Everyone would write and that pill is sleep right yet. Forty five percent of us get less than six hours a night. And yeah. And so it's it's it's sort of crazy. What's what's been happening? I think with modern technology and the change in our lifestyle is humans that you know, now, we're using technology to help bring some that lifestyle and consciousness back. Awesome. We'll guys sleep. I obviously cannot recommend this one enough. You can find more information on her Preet and everything to do an aura ring dive in check it out. It's so powerful. Like, you said, it's the biggest change that you could make really believe that if you haven't already be sure to subscribe. And until next time my friends beat legendary take care. Thank you so much, man. Everybody. Thank you so much for listening. And if this content is delivering value to you, please go to itunes Stitcher rate and review us that helps us build this community. And that is what we're all about right now buildings community as big as we can to help as many people as we can deliver as much value as possible and you guys rating and reviewing really helps with that. All right, guys. Thank you again so much and until next time, my friends, you legendary take care.