Better Call Saul | Season 4, Episode 6 + 7 Recap

Automatic TRANSCRIPT

Okay, everybody what's going on. Josh Witter here filling in for Rochester, Nino on the better call Saul podcast on Poche show recap smoo- four. We get into talking about episodes six and seven pin yada and something stupid. Let me say a little something about our friends over at truecar. Your some useful car tipsy might not be aware of a coffee filter and a little bit of olive oil can clean your interior, removing excess weight from your car will improve gas mileage, and you can place your keep up to your chin to increase its range. Isn't that strange? Well, here's another tip you might not know about. Truecar also helps people get used cars. That's right. Truecar's and just for buying new cars with their certified dealer network and a nationwide inventory of nearly one million used cars, you enjoy real pricing on actual inventory and a simpler buying experience, whether you buy a new or used and with truecar users can see what others paid. So they know if they're getting a good deal before buying. They're also more likely to enjoy a faster buying. Experience by connecting with truecar certified dealers. So when you're ready to buy a new or used car, check out truecar and enjoy a more confident car buying experience, some features not available in all states. Call saw season for episodes six and seven are over, but we are just getting started here on push recaps. It's the better call Saul podcast. Here I'm Poche recaps and if you are a normal listener of the better policy, Paul typecast and not the other podcasts we do here on Bush recaps you're probably like, who's this guy saying something stupid? Well, it's me, I'm Joshua. I'm filling in for the great Rob's Esser Nino, and I'm here as always is here on better call Saul with the great Antonio Massaro Antonio how you doing befriend I'm doing okay, Josh. I'm very sorry to everyone that we did not have a better call Saul podcast last week, rob, his family of suffered personal loss, and our hearts go out to him. Rob is unable to make the podcast this week. Hopefully he will be back next week. So Josh, I just I just wanted to address that from the top that I'm really my heart goes out to rob in his family. Our hearts are definitely out to rob to Nicole the whole family, and we're, we're picking up the torch. While while he is away, like Antonio says, hopefully, rob is going to be back in action for episode eight. If not, I'll stick around if you guys don't shout me away with torches and pitchforks or whack me over the back of the head with a bag of sandwiches who hit someone with a bag of sandwiches. Exactly who does it. The guys guys listen to big mama. Oh, man. Salt Goodman to Rob's Jimmy McGill here. Oh my God. So I'm the evil. Rob is what's going on here. I'm deadly. Like the rob that wears flashy jumpsuits. That seems to be my thing. Yup. The rob that sells burner phones. Yeah. So here I am slinging burner funds in in Rob's absence here with Antonio, wake, you said there was no podcast last week, so we did not get to wack into in yada, which was I thought, really fun episode of the season. And I know that we certainly I think if this had been another episode here in something stupid that was going at the normal pace of better call Saul this season, I think we probably would've done like a real beat by beat, blow down of blow Dan cheese breakdown yet. Area's been yada, but I think because of what happens here in something stupid, like the action is getting fast forward. It so much. I think a lot of pinata fuels what we see here in something stupid, but I think sequentially we should be. We should really be talking at through the perspective of this latest episode. I've got copious notes from both episodes what I was going to talk about on the previous podcast, so we'll make sure we had everything that we import. Why not start with at least like a general conversation of pinata of the episode that got us to where we were because it was a great episode. It's directed by Andrew Stanton. Famously of the Pixar mold. He is the director of the, I think, unfairly maligned. John Carter, I think that's a better movie than it's given credit for. It's not the best movie, but it's not the worst movie. And here he is directing an episode of better call saw where Jimmy was taking steps towards becoming saw that seemed like really big steps in the context of that sowed. Then this episode is really slammed it on the gas really did, and that's what a good time jump will do for you. But we saw the break-up essentially in pin yada, at least professionally of Kim and Jimmy, and that professional break-up, I think precipitates very personal one that is approaching or seemingly approaching from the incident, so something stupid. So the professional break-up is not as emotional as the something stupid one, but we see, I think more of what is playing out in Jimmy in that moment when Kim brings him to the restaurant where they've had so many fun antics together, portraying different personnel. Ladies and tells him of her plan to work at Twyford and coke leeann by the way, misrepresents the fact surrounding that plan seemingly. She doesn't say I went there with the pitch. She says it was offered to her right seems to be real real lawyer ball with the facts there and. Given the scope of the lies that are circulating around this world. I'm willing to give Kim Wexler pass on that. Oh, for sure. I think it's just more Representative of where they already are in their personal relationship that she's not really being truthful with him about that scenario. And I think it's in part because where we see in what we see in that episode is that she's looking at his no pad while he's asleep, and she sees his little drawings of Wexler McGill and she sees Kim Wexler banking law, Jimmy McGill, and every other kind of law listed under the various integrations of his name. So it's clear like she has a plan. He doesn't have a plan, the only plan he has to link up with her and she does she in about that life. Josh doesn't want to go back to that style of life. And it's in that moment. I think when she gets that then when she sees that note pad that she forms the plan, it doesn't help. That Jimmy is is actually honest with her in the moment and tells her it's a no go on therapy. And they have that that discussion and Kim says, you have to do what. It's best for you. That's what she says Jimmy. And I think we see that that's later echoed in this episode when Jimmy gets his bearings. When Kim is pitched that she's going to go to Schweickart and Coakley and take Mesa Verde with her. There Jimmy comes out of that kitchen lurches out of there, and he says, like, you have to do what's best for you. So he's just parroting back to her what she said to him. This is not a break-up or this is not a relationship that seems to have huge moments of tumult. It's just there's a breakdown in their emotional connection, and there's a breakdown in their intimacy from a communication standpoint, and that's at seemingly is on display in pinata a little bit with the events. But it's fantastic montage from the beginning of something stupid that really sums that up. Yeah, I was going to say, I think it's the, it's the slow disintegration of this relationship that we have been seeing here over the course of this season. But especially as escalated in the first of the toothbrush montage was what I what I have labeled it as in my notes, but it's so much more than that. In this first sequencer of something stupid where just slowly but surely Antonio. The leg has been slipping away from Jimmy's side of the split screen line, right? Like, you know, she's been this disintegration between this relationship that has that has been such a driving force of Jimmy and Kim here on this on this season, and it's it's looking. It's looking bad, but it's good for the show at the same time because this is this is what you need to get him to Saul. And I feel like the gentler it is the easier it is on my heart because you know that some sort of horrible moment is going to occur between these two, but if it really is just sort of like the slow parting of ways that's at least an easier pill to swallow. Yeah, they're going to have to put their issues on the table and it's coming up. It's coming up to really unfurl that the big dramatic scene is coming for sure, but it it's foreshadowed already in pin yada in that scene when they're in the restaurant fork, I think it's called her. Perhaps it's called forte. I'm not sure how that's pronounced. Chad believe is a real, a real restaurant in maybe the height regency or a nice hotel in Albuquerque, Kim says, Jimmy, you know, are you sure like? And he says, yeah, you have to do what's best for you. And then Jimmy says, I can't ask you to wait around for me who knows ten months, a lot can happen and what we see in that ten months nearly in the montage or a long period of time is nothing really happening, right? Like nothing significant happening. It's this slow slide into the separation that we see is a montage. I think that is we joke a lot on this podcast, Josh about the montages on better call Saul and how they have such fun with them. There's been some great ones this season specifically like the street life montage, where the with the neon and the puddles ever. All that was shot was really great. But this one I think is is their best maybe the best on better call Saul and up there with the best in this entire catalogue. I thought when I first watched it, it's hard to keep your eyes on what's going on both sides of the screen. But when you really go back and watch it. It's really heartbreaking because you see them drifting apart in subtle ways like she's getting into bed and they're at the same time. They're happy. Then later on she is getting into bed separately than him and she just puts her leg over him. And then later on she is getting into bed separately than him in her side goes dark. I think there's a lot of anyway of, yeah, wakes up and he doesn't do anything, right? Yeah, there are a lot of those little subtle moments. Yeah, you see them like eating dinner together, they're having spaghetti and wine. He's pouring her more wine at dinner, and then you see that they are having dinner completely apart. You know he's feeding the fish while she is that wording right. I there separately reading while they're eating at the same spot, and then she's just eating in her office and he's eating with the fish. So he's pretty soon. Maybe someone will be sleeping with the fish. Who knows? I mean that in the mafia, why not all don't wish that upon Kim Wexler. Yeah, who knows? But no, anything can happen, Josh, ten months. There's a lot of time, but anyway, it's it's just a really good too. Good signaling. We've talked a lot a lot on this show about the need or the desire of. Have a time jump, and I thought it was really nifty the way they accomplished. And this one, maybe a little sloppy in other respects that we'll talk about that on this podcast because we had been boiling some of these other story lines that seemingly we are not addressing yet in the events of something stupid. But time jump is great for the better call saw universe. And I think right for where we're at with these characters, and I think they covered what you would wanna see during that time in integrate a great piece of filmmaking there. With that, montage, reminiscent of citizen Kane, there's a breakfast relationship going apart montage and citizen Kane. That's very, very famous. And I'm sure influence the events of this in some way, but the cover of something stupid, Josh, there's a really detailed story. Have you heard about it through to get this? So I don't know. They edited it originally to the famous Franken, Nancy Sinatra version of something stupid, which is the only one I'm familiar with, and then they decided it was too long or didn't work. They couldn't get the Clarence or something to that effect. So this is a specifically commission to cover. They sent out like a bad. Signal to all these artists and got dozens and dozens and dozens of responses. They narrowed them to fourteen. Then they narrowed those fourteen to two. And this is an Israeli duet Israeli group duo from Israel that they worked with specifically beat by beat to commission this cover for this sequence. That's amazing. That's incredible. Yeah. Well, it paid off because I fully back what you just said. I think that this is one of the one of the high marks of better call Saul. Certainly. And I do think that this montages is right up there with some of the best that we saw on breaking bad. And I think not the least of which you know it reminds me a lot of the crystal blue persuasion scene that you see in and bring bad without spoiling that any further for people who don't know. But I've seen nice. I just don't even by, I know on the guest new here, I don't wanna. I don't wanna like farting. You're in your office. Okay. All right. Well, everyone's dead, no, but you know that that that time jump sequence, I think like any time that the action is being fast forwarded in a way. I think your probably excited. And I think especially with this show with this season, I haven't had the chance to deliver my takes on better call Saul here across the way. But I echo you guys and many of the masses at this was this has been a very slow go and here in the back half it seems like it's really starting to pick up. And I think when you realize that not only is this is this wonderful song playing this wonderful music is playing and you know that we're in for some some fun as you're sensing the fact that one of the driving ideas behind this montage is the parting of ways between Jimmy and Kim. It's also once you start seeing time passing once you see that it's it's June third, and then you see it's independence day, and then you see it's Labor Day. Like I think more and more you're just getting kind of excited by the fact that in a very short bursts of time, a lot of plot. It is moving forward. A lot of things that we don't need to see to understand what is occurring their lives. It's just kind of getting yada, yada, yada, through in a beautiful way so that the bulk of the rest of this episode and now with three episodes still to go in the season. We are in that post crystal blue persuasion mode, whereas that was the back half of the final episode of the first half of the final season breaking that has a lot is a lot of I'm impressed that I was able to do it, but I think that there's immediately with the passage of time, there's a lot of goodwill that's bought here with the montage, aside from the fact that it's just constructed beautifully. And if if you don't get the sense of. What's going on with the with the parting of ways of Jimmy and Kim. In that montage, you're going to get it a little bit later with the neck scenes that you're gonna see with Jimmy and Kim. But before you even go there, you know that Jimmy is getting very close to the point where he might be able to be practicing log and he has not lost his enthusiasm for that with this another great sequence where you're in the perspective of somebody and you don't know who's head you're in as you're walking around this guided tour of Jimmy's hopeful new law firm, his new office, and it's all from the perspective without of you'll, I think, especially given where we know that the rest of the episode is gonna go with, you'll where he is going to be in so much trouble for whacking a cop and the head to start the the proper episode outside of the montage inside the head of he will is just particularly delightful. Very, very funny that had of you'll was world famous. No, it is certainly read it famous and this is. It was a great place to be. I really like, I think what what's happening on this season better call saw they are bringing in some first time directors to the show, and they're bringing in people with different background. This episode was directed by Deborah Chow Joshu directed an episode of something. We podcast about mister robot. One of the few people who can say, at least that gives me with, there's about eight of them or nine of them that they directed a mister robot episode. Now that has taken the helm for every episode since season one, right? She directed season one episode, five, brave, traveler, and yeah, she's got. She's got. She's a, she's she's got a lot on her resume. And so I thought this was a really clever way to shoot this scene as well. Just the the point of view. We've seen Jimmy deliver this pitch before we've seen Jimmy delivered to Kim in season one when he was first pitching her on the idea of the two of them forming a law firm together. We've seen her him leading her through another site when it actually worked out when it was Wexler and McGill, not Wexler McGill when they were separate legal. Practices under one roof, the dentist office, and he was showing her that building. So of course, the assumption is that we're gonna turn and we're going to see Kim, a good laugh that it's you'll, and then heels response about the high rise in the boat. Made me laugh a lot too, but there's just something heartbreaking in the fact that you're right, Jimmy SPD's seems to be done and he seems to be completed with everything he had to finish in terms of the actual legal case. We see that in the montage that PD file goes into close cases. So he's done with what he needs to do for the court. He's now just waiting out his suspension running of the clock. Yeah, running the clock and he's, he's he, he sense of how long he's got left hitting a month left what he says at some point. So he's about one month away and he he's not in a position where I don't understand. He's he later is seen measuring Kim's office at Twyford and Coakley, but I don't think that he can reasonably believe that he's going to be able to pull him out of where she is in the montage. We see she is experiencing a lot of. Professional growth and success. We see you're putting literal trophies up for every new Mesa Verde branch that she's opened. We see her with clients and the PD I believe we see her moving from office to office in Schweickart and Coakley getting bigger offices and building up files. So she really has done clearly a lot in this in this time jump and he's done nothing except cell cell phones. So I don't know why he expects that it would be fair to assume that that she might want this. And maybe he knows the pitches DOS which is why is giving it to heal to begin with. But it's really, it's really bittersweet and sad that we see this autumn. It'll even though it's funny because we've seen a make this pitch to Kim in the past, and we know he doesn't have Huel in mind when he's making this pitchy certainly seemingly would want to be partners with Kim at that point. It's very funny when he asks you all this is if this is what the this law is would be good enough room and he'll heels. Responses are spectacular. I saw no more cell phones. Four. And so if he was a lawyer, he would want a big glass highrise fortieth floor. And that's where he would be when he's not on his boat. I love his idea of a lawyer and like just the idea that like if he was a lawyer, he would be such a bad ass lawyer so that that just on its on, I thought was very funny. But I think to your to your point, one of the things that I was reading into the scene where we're skipping past the Hector stuff a little bit to get into this scene where Jimmy goes to, we'll get to Kim's office party and at Kim's office party. There's the moment where as you say, he's like stepping out across the room, she's got ten steps as opposed to his six steps. And then he goes out and he starts making an asset of himself and really like causing a scene in trying to get under Kim's bosses. I'm blanking on his name to get under his Weicker yet to get under to get under his skin skin. And I felt like this was. An attempt on Jimmy's part. Maybe you know, like early shades of what he's talking about doing later in the episode to Kim, like in conversation with Kim or he's like, we can try like some social engineering to get. You'll out of trouble to me. It almost reads, in retrospect and even a little bit in the moment that Jimmy's like trying to sour Kim's reputation here, not affectively because the business has been able to bring to this law firm, but I think still trying to do it where maybe he can like make things uncomfortable here. Maybe he can get her to backslide into their situation here a little bit. I think that we have met Jimmy at the moment where he is more than willing to do this kind of stuff. And I think that it it really draws a lot from his own bitterness that we have seen him engaging in over the course of this season. You can only imagine how that would be heightened over the course of these ten months. Yeah, it's his own bitterness that I felt drove that scene for sure. I think you make a great observation that I hadn't really thought about that. It was actually perhaps manip-. Bula tive action. I think you're right that he's certainly capable of that, and it wouldn't surprise me if that was part of his motivation. I had a slightly different read on it because he comes into the party and he's making nice with everybody. He's laughing it up. He's talking about meeting these all the famous and the more famous. You know, he's meeting all the people that she works with, and he's being the affable Jimmy McGill. Then he goes into her office and he sees the awards and he measures out the distance and he looks at that award, or I should say, just the things she has framed from a PD client. And the note says, you believed in me when no one else did. And I think that's when his self loathing is just pulled to the surface because that's exactly what Kim has done for Jimmy throughout. She's believed in him when Chuck didn't. She's believed in him when Howard seemingly didn't. She's believing him when no one else did she made the case for him to get the job at Davis in Maine, she stuck her neck out for him repeatedly and believed in him when no one else did she was his his better. I mean, she was everything that he wanted to aspire to be an represe. Rented in flash that that's what she was to him. And I think that note really centers that that guilt or that feeling in him when he reads that known since you were the only person that believe me when no one else did he thought that same same for me, and that's when he emerges from that office and we see import giant drink and then always see that bitterness spilling out. So I think it's probably a cocktail. That's a mixture of all these things right? Like that's what he's drinking down. Maybe they're bidders in the drink, but this is something that I don't think that's how bidders work. Maybe no, read that right on one of those like Douglas steno, whatever. Like ads. Misunderstood, but. I'm not. I'm not a bidders man myself, but yeah, I don't know. I think that I think that that's a huge part of it is that he's, he's got that self loathing like you're saying. And I think that's really ultimately a huge part of what unfurled on rich Wichert. He's clearly just being jerk. And the aftermath of that scene is brutal because Jimmy has pushed Schweickart into a corner with their retreat. And so yeah, start, it starts Intel, you ride, right? And it starts with a bus ride to tell you ride and ends with the plane trip to Aspen with having matching year telluride on Sarah, it's yeah, exactly. So when are we getting Poche recaps parkas by the way. Listen, let's put that on the list. You tell me buddy. I'm ready. All right. I'll look into it. I will wear forever. Nothing else. Yeah, Donald Duck. It. Let's get off this time. Yes, yes, there's things to say, and we don't want to say that they end up in the car on the way home and they don't even have anything constructive to fight about that. This is a huge part of why I know something bigger is coming, right? They don't really sort this out what they do is Kim says that was something Jimmy says, Yep, and turns the radio on, and it's rough. Like it's just the Ohio's own. The breeders come on radio, and it's just loud music. And then we go to commercial, at least when you're watching it with commercials. So not not the best moment for their relationship and they didn't. They didn't sort it out. This is a breakdown in communication. She didn't say, why did you do that? He didn't say, I'm sorry, none of that happened. This is a wound that will faster for sure. Among many Festa. Yeah, I think for for me what's so upsetting is Kim has every reason in the world to especially by the end of this episode to tell Jimmy. To just shove off in, like, get away from this and just break it off and she's not doing that yet. And she's clearly still feeling emotionally tethered to him whether or not that's. You know, I mean, it's not a healthy thing the way that he is acting the way that he is the way that he's treating her by the way that he's lying about his life. What he's doing to himself is very, very difficult for her to whether very clearly, but she's been so ride or die with him that she's not even. She's not even piping up about it and you can understand where she's coming from with that. She's got her own life. She's got her own situations that she has to deal with. But I do think when you're in Kim's position in relationship and the other person that you're in the relationship with is is in such a bad way and is in such dire straits. You just want to give that person so much space to process their grief or whatever it is they're going through, whether it's in her perception, still Jimmy's unreconciled feelings about Chuck's death or whatever it is just wants to treat them Mike, he's an adult and he can handle it and then like the transition from getting to like how you just let the person be their own person and deal with their own stuff. And. Then when is it time to like, say something or when is it time to do something for yourself? If you're already past that point where you no longer can say the thing that's productive to help bring that person back. Feel like that's where Kim is in, and I just, I wonder if the type of confrontation where in between Kim and Jimmy much in the way that their relationship has kind of been might be a little bit like, I don't know a little mundane and maybe not as violently dramatic, at least on Kim's part. Like maybe not even in the way that she likes screams at Howard in the office earlier in this season. I can imagine her very calmly being like Jahn done. I'm out and like Jimmy has just pushed her away at this point. Yeah, you're right. It could be like leading to a fizzle. But these are two lawyers who like classic films. So that would be very anti-climactic sure for their characters. But I think you're right in terms of the nature of the relationship. It's circling the drain, and we've seen that imagery in this season of better call Saul. We've seen the circling the drain imagery and. I think that's exactly what's happening with the two of them in the other tethered together by some unassailable force, but that unassailable force will pull them into a position where there are eventually separated. And so that's that's where they are. I, it's unfortunate that they're in these throws because we talk about opinion, and we talk about how NPR Kim was not completely honest with Jimmy about the PD work are I'm sorry about the Schweickart and Coakley job, but she also wasn't honest with him about the PD work. She did not tell him. I've been taking these PD cases. This is something that I've been doing and it's important to me. So this is a communication breakdown that's been happening for a long time. He does not tell her since similarly in something stupid about the cell phone work, and I'm not shocked that he doesn't tell her, oh, by the way, I'm selling burner cell phones from an old burnt-out shoney's or wherever that is living in a van down by the river. Right. I with this guy, this pickpocket named you'll who I contacted through veterinarian who runs the local underworld connections. No, this is not something that he's been honest with her about. I thought it was a real seemingly like the just the imagery is sets up a says, a lot more about the relationship when he goes and he makes this great pitch to Huel because of course, Hewlett gets arrested for the sandwich incident. That is something that Jimmy feels responsible for Jimmy has been. He's he's, he's just been really facing off with police officer. So the police officers not gonna cut him a break. Any feels like it's his fault. He will goes down hills going to flee, and Jimmy says, let me work my magic. I'm a magic man, magic man, not a lawyer. Don't worry about me as a lawyer. A magic man, Jimmy has no magic is only magic is to go to Kim, and he doesn't call Kim and talk to her at home about this or anything. He's sitting in the lobby of Schweiker Coakley waiting for an appointment with her, and that's rough man. Like he's now on her weightless like he is not somebody who can just walk into her life. He's somebody that has to talk to an assistant or wait in a waiting room before he can. See her and he's almost like a client in that respect. And when he tells her about the cell phone stuff, your right that the real heartbreaking part of it is she says, like you've been selling burner phones out of the back of a whatever. And instead of like them being that being an issue, she swallows, it should just gone and she says, all right, I'm just going to confront the case. It's fine. Yep, it's good. And then the moment where that CNN's is very godfather, like at the end of the godfather where the doors she slams the door Jimmy's face like, don't ask me about my business, Jimmy. Like in the door shuts in his face. That's something we've seen on this show before too. It's in season one episode nine when Jimmy and Chuck and Howard are sitting in the conference room and they're talking about why Jimmy can't work on the Sandpiper case. And Kim has asked to leave the room mates, Kim leaves the room, the doors shut in her face, and the shot is is blocked and stage very similarly to this one Kim has she's occupied a different space. Now, and that's teased in pinatas. Well, I'm wondering, how do you feel about. Kim occupying more of a Chuck like role in Jimmy's life at this point? Yeah. I mean, I think that's very, very similar dynamic where Kim, Kim, as ascendant, you know, even as the relationship is circling, the drain Jimmy is falling and Kim is rising and it's not unlike where it was for Jimmy and Chuck where Chuck was rising through his career in Jimmy, was slipping Jimmy and not selling phones on the street, but you know, dropping other things off in people's vehicles of your. No. So you know, it's a, you know, he's certainly at this moment in time. He's in a better spot than he was there. When he's confronted by the cop, the cop isn't like even questioning the legality of what he's doing. So at least there's that, but he's still he's still lying to the closest person in his life. And I think as much as there is a self loathing in Jimmy, and I think that that is very, very real. It's impossible not to detect like some sense of. Loathing toward Kim's success. And I think that that is absolutely how he used to feel towards Chuck in this feeling of like, oh, you think you're so much better than me. And I don't think that that's how Kim views Jimmy at all. I think Kim, the feeling that I get from Kim is Kim is consistently heartbroken by Jimmy and surprised by the lies and kind of taking it as as a matter of fact deal because she's very rational and that's just how she's dealing with it. That's how she's processing it. And I think she's denying herself some righteous fury towards this guy. But I think she loves Jimmy and she wants to help him out. And I think that she doesn't. She doesn't view herself as as better than him. But when he comes to her and he says that he needs his help about everything that happened that you'll like there's an I've been. I've been hugging. I've been huckster in cell phones on on the side. Like I think she's got no choice other than to just like kind of snap into that business mode. And I'm so eager to find out how she is going to then address him. Wants this whole deal with you'll is over because you can tell that she's kind of just in tunnel vision mode right now. Right? Just trying to carve her way through this current situation. Right. And I think you're right that she doesn't see herself as better than Jimmy. This is seated very properly at the beginning of pinata with that flashback from nineteen Ninety-three where we see the time when Jimmy and Kim both worked in the mail room together and Kim was a hotshot, right? She was already in law school. She was three, oh, she was impressing Chuck with her case knowledge, and she was kicking out over the case that Chuck had one seemingly with his knowledge of only obscure precedent and Jimmy couldn't care less. He was making jokes or he could care less. I guess I couldn't care less. He doesn't care at all. He he's making jokes about acids and platters and not really caring about the result, and Kim was very different and when Chuck and Howard walk away from that scene to meet Mr Bush mills and Howard's office, Jimmy says to, Kim, that's going to be you one day, and I think that's. Fascinating to think about when we are in this position that we're in with something stupid where Kim is occupying this ascendant role as you're observing that she's already in that role like Jimmy has said it in one thousand nine hundred ninety three when they were running the Oscar pool, and she was the hot shot in the mail room. And here she is like he predicted it. He was right, but the other real killer part about that scene is it was her being impressed by Chuck's legal acumen that seemingly caused Jimmy to want to become a lawyer. We see almost immediately after that Seaney dry. He takes his mailroom card by the law library, and he enters the law library seemingly beginning his hero's journey to becoming saw Goodman, entering that law library, crossing the threshold and picking up the legal materials and accepting his role in this drama. So that is the moment where he decides to become a lawyer. And if you buy that, then you buy that he, he probably decides to become a lawyer to impress him Wexler much the way his brother Chuck did and having Chuck removed from his life. Now in part because of things that. Jimmy and Kim did to him and both feeling partially responsible for that and her now occupying that place of superiority doesn't really matter how she feels about him. It is own self loathing that's getting in the way and that's causing him the problems that he's having. And I think in the spirit of giving a fuller picture to continue pushing through this Jimmy and Kim storyline, keep wanting to say Jimmy and Kimmy it's very hard tongue twister on in the making. You get, you get this. She goes to court, and she's trying to tell her adversary like this is this is there's, there's there's no history of violence here and the people that you've personally you try to pass. Are you barely through the book at them, all of this. And then this person's like our only witness is a scumbag disbarred lawyer who peddles drop phones to criminals. And when you put the picture of Jimmy in in that light and throw it back at Kim, that's a, that's a really tough pill to swallow. And she says something to the effect of like, you don't have the full story and then she walks away and like that's the thing that causes her to back down. And for me, that's two fold. The first reaction that I had to that was her being faced with the reality of of what Jimmy looks like to other people. If not necessarily the reality of who Jimmy is to her, and now having to consider that that is Jimmy McGill is. So there's that one read, which was my I read. And then I think the second read here that really had an. Occurred to me until you were talking about it is Kim zone guilt over Chuck's death and the role that she played in that and that the reasons why Jimmy is where Jimmy is at Kim feels like she probably shoulder some of that burden. Definitely, definitely. And she's not. It's the whole idea of my brother's keeper. That's fantastic. When you look at the drama between Jimmy and Chuck, but I think Kim, whether or not she's occupying the Chuck role in Jimmy's live, she does feel responsible for him and as you're observing responsible for his situation in some way, and she understands the full story that Chuck was persecuting Jimmy. She had that huge blow up against shock in a previous season where she said you've rated him and his whole life. You've done all of these things to him. Did this and you did that and you never give him a chance and you never took them seriously and the whole Shakespearian drama that played out between the brother. She was an observer of a lot of it and she had a pretty intimate. She ended up pretty intimate view of how that impacted Jimmy. And so she does have a lot more sympathy for the. Guy, but that I can only go so far. And I think the fact of the matter is she's moved on emotionally. He's no longer the support system for her that he was. She is built her own life and it doesn't include him. He's just meeting the people that work on her team for the first time, seemingly ten months into her job, and they all live in the same city. And she goes to work every day, and he's a lawyer with nothing else to do like Adam shocked that they've not met before he's not met any of her colleagues. And so this is odd because it is such a small town and because he is a lawyer and I, it just shows I think that he's not playing a very active role in what she's building Schweickart and Coakley. He's very separate from all of that. Perhaps by design perhaps not. But I think she has. She has separated him from her life already. I before I even saw this week's episode in last week's episode and pinata I had in my notes that that was a break-up seen in that in that hotel and four k. that they choose breaking out with him professionally if not personally. And I think the two, maybe at. At least in this case are perhaps more linked that when we're then we would have realized last week and at the saw that play out this week, for sure, it's, it's really heartbreaking. They did. They've done a good job. I had said with rob, Josh, on this podcast that took two and a half seasons for us to get to the climax in Chuck's trial and chicanery insurer Jimmy's trial with Chuck's testimony chicanery and season three episode, five or six or whatever that is. And we said this show is slow before that. When's it going to become Saul? Goodman? It's so slow, but we got to that episode and we said, wow, that was so good. I didn't care about anything else in the show I was. I was reimb- wrapped the entire episode best episode, a better call Saul. Fantastic. Well, that's because it took two and a half seasons to build to that moment. And I think the Jimmy and Kim story, if you re watch better call Saul, there are a little bit at arm's length. They clearly have some kind of relationship in the in the first season. But season two does the job of immediately reseed. Everything between the two of them as the central issue for Jimmy's character other than Chuck. So they've been building that throughout season two throughout season three. And now here we are in season for two and a half seasons later with a lot of that story built up. So this is coming. It's a slow Bill, but it's build that I think is going to have devastating emotional results because they've taken the time to build it. So it certainly was on display in this episode between the two of them and you got to imagine it's coming very, very soon or at the very least some other major conflict is on its way between Jimmy and Kim that you've got to imagine. It's going to lead to the break-up the official break up between these two because Kim tries to do her thing. As we mentioned before, clearly the the other lawyer is not going to budge. This is not going to work out, Kim is not going to be able to get you'll into a situation where he is not facing jail time. He's going to at least be facing a little bit of jail time. She thinks it won't have to be two months or two years, rather eighteen months whatever it is, but it's she's going to she's going. She's not going to be able to just complete. Get him off and Jimmy, having talked to Hugh Hewitt was like, I'm not going to jail. I'm gonna run. I have places I can go. I will walk. What does he say? Like you're going to get pulled over in three years Brits. And he's like, I, I won't bust until house just fantastic. So so we know that you'll does not want to face any jail time. And so when Jimmy, here's from Kim that he's going to have to face a little bit and you're going to need to back my play. He's going to call you after I see him and you just need to back my play and Jimmy just at first is trying to yes, her to death and kind of talk to her ambiguously to leave himself enough space to do his slip in Jimmy thing. Or I guess his saw Goodman thing as he has been going by Saul Goodman in these intervening ten months when he's approached by the police officer is because he found a Saul Goodman business card in drug dealers wallet when he busted him. So Jimmy is in this in this montage has become Saul Goodman. I mean, we know of course that that had happened earlier in the series, but he's resurrected that alias again. So this isn't even slip in Jimmy. At this point, he's he's good meeting it up. Goodman in this clearly shows, I think he's building a name on the streets. This is a built-in way for him to auto. Any goes back to the practice of law. Why be Jimmy McGill? He's known as Saul Goodman with xactly wants to represent. So here we are. Yes. So we're already there, so that's really fast, and that's really great. Like we're in that where in that place of momentum with the with the salt Goodman stuff right now. So we're in a very exciting point in the story, but I think that the fact that he's trying to be like, yeah, okay. That makes sense. I'll I'll sure we'll see. We'll see what happens. There's like, what do you mean? We'll see what happens. You're gonna back my play. Right? And that's when he gets like a little more specific, but still they, whereas like you do your thing, I'll do mine. What does that mean? He goes, don't worry about it and then he drives off. So at this point it's almost like Jimmy has revealed to her. So nonchalantly, the fact that he's been selling street phones on the side, Kim had such like a com detached reaction to it that he may have been expecting to get his head bitten off potentially. And that did not happen that even now it's almost like he's got like the. The arrogance or the confidence that that went over so smoothly. So now I can just be the most alpha version of myself, which is this all Goodman character. And you can't imagine that Kim is going to abide that for a long. The thing that makes me nervous is the end of the episode with Kim when she goes, she's buying all the office supplies and she desperately calls Jimmy and says, whatever you're doing, don't do it. I have a better way. Is it some version of one of the more trickster things seem Kim do with Jimmy before? And so is she being sucked into the vortex and this moment? I think what we're going to see ultimately next episode is that Kim, we'll have taken something positive from Jimmy. I don't think it's going to avoid Tech's sucking negative moment for him. I think it's going to be Kim what what she understood or what happened. What we see in that same, what she understands is that Jimmy says, I'm going to do it my way and Kim starts driving away. And I think what's going through her head in that moment is what is his way? What would that look like? What do you think he could do. Who is he? He's a flamboyant showman. He's the kind of guy who makes a scene who knows how to knows how to Turkey tick and make a PR stunned or something to that effect. Right. I really think that's that's where she's going with this. I don't think that's a vortex moment for her. I think that's her realizing there are things about Jimmy McGill that are positive, and that you can use that are traits that can actually have a positive impact on what you're doing. It's on questionable that he was good at some of the things that we've seen him do in the past. He was a good commercial. Like the guy knows how to how to tug at the heartstrings of what he's doing. Like we know that he's good at that. We've seen him do it in multiple instances. He was pretty successful with some of his endeavors in the past, the billboards not worked very well. And yeah, those are a little bit out of bounce in there a little bit ginned up. But on the other hand, they work. And so I think knowing what we know about Kim and her love for to kill a Mockingbird and Atticus Finch and knowing what we know about the unfair treatment of you'll Babbit. No, I think she's going to make. A big deal out of this. I think those markers are probably for some kind of signs or protest or something to that effect. And I think we're really going to see her do the Jimmy McGill thing and create a controversy here surrounding this incident bring bad PR to the police department. I really touch on that incident to to win her client, some some sympathy. So I think that's what she's doing. I think that's what is Gil play and what's the motivation behind that is purely because she loves Jimmy and wants do right by him or is like, I'm going to do this last thing for Jimmy, and then it's it's water under the bridge. I am absolved of any debt that I owe this guy like, where do you see that aspect of this going, I think is tequila Mockingbird thing. So I think she wants to help you. I think that's part of it. I think she wants to help a client because she has this warrior complex that has led her to nearly give up a multi million dollar seemingly now, banking client and throw that businesses side to pursue helping the persecuted. And she sees this as a true. Early on fair case she she knows she's done our homework as she said. So I think our motivation in part is to win this thing and to help you'll and to really help this particular client. I think the Jimmy way is her way of saying like, okay, I can give into this a little bit, and I think your way might actually work. We've seen in the past that she enjoyed some of the Capers that she ran together with Jimmy. They had a lot of fun being different people are running seemingly harmless cons on people like Ken wins to just just really just a tug at their strings a little bit. No other reason, they never profited other than a little bit of tequila from what they did. So we've turned her really embracing enjoy a lot of the Jimmy Mikio life when it's appropriate. And I think she thinks that this is probably an appropriate time to do it. I don't think this is a one last hurrah thing. What I do think is that you're right that she's tunnel vision on this and that once it's off the table, what's going to be left is this thing where she has to confront Jimmy about everything that's come before. Right? That put them in this position where she. Had to or she ended up in this in this particular case, I don't think this is gonna tanker. Legal could ride she could stick our neck out in a way that Schweickart and Coakley could want no part of, but I don't see that happen. Yeah, that's not quite the nightmare scenario. The nightmare scenario for the reason why Kim Wexler is not in the breaking bad portion of this story is something unspeakable as far as I'm concerned. But one of the nightmare scenarios could be that Jimmy is going to directly lead Kim, who is at the height of her success into her own vortex of doom professionally and I, I really don't wanna see that. I just feel like at a certain point. You know, through through everything that we saw in this episode like she really needs to process the fact that Jimmy was doing something in his nine to five day to day life that was completely different from what he was claiming to do. And I cannot imagine that sits well with her, and I can very much see the scenario where this is she washes her hands of this case, and she really takes that to task. And that could be the end of this relationship. Like I could see it being as simple as that could be, but who knows. It is definitely we're, we're building to that for sure. Some kind of moment between the two of them and Jimmy is nothing if not one to set up professional downfall we saw what's what? Pinata we saw what that looks like with regard to h h like that's not going well for Howard, and it's not going well for Howard because of everything that happened with Chuck. Now, some of that is Howard's doing for sure, but Jimmy put himself in a position where he was able to pass a lot of the guilt off to Howard and went Howard blame himself. And we end up with a Howard that is disheveled, Josh address a hard f- bomb on Jimmy and his office. Jimmy calls him a shitty lawyer, but a good salesman, which is not the worst way to describe Jimmy either. So there's a great scene there in that episode. One of the casualties of the time jump is that we don't see where Howard Howard ham when is ten months later yet that is definitely a big question. I mean, there's there's a couple of characters we don't get to check in on. Yeah, Nacho being the other big one where that that's got to drop at some point is what's been going on with Nacho this season in these past ten months, what's going on with Howard in these last ten months? And while we've been seeing so much success on Kim side at the line and for for Schweiker like you've got to imagine HMO whenever we check in on them, you can certainly imagine this area where Howard who was already in dire. Straits is beautiful platinum blonde hair might not be there anymore. Oh my gosh, a bald, Patrick Fabian no way this is money maker that is his tar, Gary unlocks? No, it's not going to happen. I won't let it happen. Yeah. His trademark hair that we saw Jimmy mimic in season one. No, that can't happen God. That would be terrible. But I mean, he's already loosening is tie and not having his like tyrod and stuff like that. So what's next for Howard Hamlin. But yeah, we've seen Jimmy have create a negative professional vortex. In this series already. So it's not shocking to think that it might happen with him. I think she's too smart for that. I think she understands what she can and can't get away with Jimmy created his own negative professional vortex with Davis and main put the commercial out there, knowing that he didn't have approval to do it and shot first and ask questions later, and Kim knows the consequences of what happened with that. I don't see her making that mistake with regard to Hugh Ababba now I think she's got latitude had Schweickart and Coakley. I don't think she's going to put herself in a position where she harms herself with Mesa Verde. I mean, it's possible that Mesa Verde might have a problem with her actions. We'll see how this all plays out. I don't. I don't. I don't know. That's only assuming that that's what she's going to do based on her to kill a Mockingbird nature and the fact that she's buying all those office supplies for all. I know she's going to donate those two boys and Girls Club in her plane is separate. So I guess on how this plays out. But that seems to be very in keeping with her character. And I don't think it's so sideways that it's something she. Can't get away with. So we will see, but I agree that once you'll is out of the way, this is a problem. Speaking of things being out of the way, though we talked about Nacho Varga. I will say, this is a criticism I have of show where I was desperate for a time jump. At many respects, we had Nacho on full boy like the guy was dying in pa-papa's living room, Josh. And now we've skipped ten months and we don't know. I guess he's just recovered and he's under gushing. Thanks is fine. I expect he's physically okay, and I imagined that the ark for for nachos, Eddie is continuing to to be in the employ the secret employees of Gus, but but you've got to wonder like how far along in terms of his psychological recovery after the shit storm. He's been in through season four so far. But I mean, I think that the answers to those questions are coming. I just think that there's so much business that has to be attended to here with the process of this final thrust for the Jimmy and Kim relationship potentially that that has to be the vast majority of the focus on on the story this week. It's just weird because Nacho wasn't NPR either. And so sure he's got a couple of time. You've got a couple of times where now it's an issue with win better, call Saul, right? I mean, sometimes they backburner these storylines in the show per Mike's not season finale or whatever happens happens, but yeah, that just it's just something that's out there. He's in the employees of Gus fring. The cousins went back to the went back south of the border. Seemingly because the heat was too hot after everything that happened. So yeah, I mean, maybe he's just been laying low and working with Gus fring in some way, shape or form and running some local drug stuff. And that's at so I guess it just seemed like he was so close with everything that was happening. He was like right at the verge of falling completely apart. And then we've put that on the burner now for like nine months span. So I guess we'll just we'll just meet Nacho where he is, and we'll see where that takes us. And that'll be that. I mean it just it's just a shame. I don't know if you had to guess because we had a hint in pinata at the beginning, one of the movies that was suggested was a real movie from nineteen Ninety-three Howards end Josh. If you had to guess, would you, would you say it was character is more likely not to survive season for Howard or Nacho? I think not to survive season for not to survive. I feel like nachos got more story ahead of him than Howard Hamlin does that Howard while Patrick baby and is great as that character. I feel like. His role in the story feels like it is. It is diminishing like he's a, he's a character where I understand why better call Saul has not found a ton of us for Howard Nacho, like you said was in full blast for so much of this season so far that I'm still very curious as to where things are going with Nacho. Whereas with with Howard, I'm fine with him being used fairly sparingly because it really does seem like is it's we're at Howards end or at least very close so gun to my head and please don't do that. I'm going to pick Howard to leave the show before the end of season four sooner than Nacho at the very least. Yeah. The only potential plot armor that he has is the flash forward to breaking bad time line seen from this season where Jimmy and Francesca are shredding and are about to go to the vacuum cleaner salesman. And Jimmy gives Francesca very specific time and says, if I'm if I'm not there do this and he, he gives her a legal referral. Says, tell Jimmy Sanchia. And so I do wonder if that legal referral was was h. HMO Howard or maybe that was Kim, we don't know yet, but if that's Howard and then that may be as a little bit of armor for Howard to survive. But we have you said, Howard hasn't been sleeping, he's falling apart. And now we've jumped forward ten months to Howard Hamlin that we see a hairless Howard would not be crazy. So around Howard, perhaps around Howard like Ron Howard, but rounder. I don't know exactly where we'll see Howard, but I'm not looking forward to that. Hopefully they don't go the way Josh misses Strauss MRs Strauss normal. All right. The very sad for MRs Strauss, very sad for Jimmy, right. Like this is I think he took this death harder than he took the death of Chuck. He'll out himself. So Mike emotionality in on that phone call. Yeah. And going home and watching the tape, you know he was upset about what happened with Strauss. He was also asking about the alpine shepherd boy, perhaps not because he wanted to know about Clarence and if he graduated college, but perhaps because he wanted to get the alpine shepherd boy, but he had his left in left to interpretation. I chose to look at charitably, but they're certainly in fact, rob would not. I human rob. I knew I was thinking I was like, rob is going to say, Jimmy, wanted to go rip that old ladies wake off and that alpine shepherd boy from morale while he was asking immediately. But I agree with you more charitable. He was just curious. That's what he remembered about her. She brought humble into his life, so that's that. But I mean, you're right open to interpretation for sure. But this is a Jimmy McGill who's dealing with that, and he's feel he feels this somebody that played a moment in his life, not just in that first season, but in the second and third is well, she was at the disbarments trial. She was in Volve with the commercial for Davis in Maine. This is somebody who played a role throughout all three seasons. So we're shedding a lot of these things behind with Jimmy McGill. We're leaving behind the Jimmy mcgeough life and he is fully becoming Saul Goodman, and this is part of it as well for sure. All right. So there's two other storylines from something stupid that we should talk about. There's everything that's going on with Gus. There's everything that's going on with Mike, which spikes engine is going on with Gus, but Mike is more directly involved. Which one do you wanna talk about? There's only a couple of scenes between these two storylines let's talk about. Let's talk about Gus for a minute. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. That's what I wanted to talk about to. I was trying to subtly drop some clues. That is what I wanted you to check out. Were you knocking glass off of a. Trey table, and that's you wanted me to bend over and pick it up. Is that what it was ridiculous stuff going on here with with Hector Salamanca who is clearly improving to the point that we see him in better call Saul where he or in breaking bad, rather where he is able to communicate by tapping his finger on a table. But we were not appreciating at any point in time until now or at least I was in. I don't think that the show had ever made it clear that Hector could have improved potentially a lot more beyond. Ends up in breaking bad and Gus is the one who is he's very closely monitoring all of hector's progress, and he really watches the tape and sees hector's spilling the Cup over so that he could check out the nurse. And he realizes that Hector is still in there and Hector is trapped in there. And if he no longer has this rigorous work towards making sure that Hector is at least some semblance of himself. Now he can really have Hector in hell, and that's incredible. I, I don't know about you. I definitely did not see anything like that coming. No, it's great, but it's also an without spoiling it. It's such an achilles heel for everything that happens with with between the Hector and Gossen all the characters and breaking bad. This is we're seeing a great story and it's great character stuff. Giancarlo Esposito can barely hide his glee and he realizes he has Hector alive. And he has Hector in present in the moment brain wise, but completely ruined physically such that he is a complete prisoner events. He can barely hide his glee, and yet it is this torture is glee that will cause problems for him in the future. So this is not something that that is joyful story. This is not something to celebrate. What we're seeing is, is the early seeds of something that will cause problems as I said later on down the line. So this is all great stuff, but it's really dark man. Fisa Gus fring is a monster, and we saw him like a tiger shark earlier in the season. When are they are Turow nachos, buddy gets got by Gus fring and that dark parking lot. But this is some dark shit for sure like this is some serial killer stuff from Gus spring. But I mean, it makes sense in in the light of what happened in the previous week in pinata when he when Gus goes, and he tells Hector though, Hector cannot hear him the story of the animal that he trapped, you know about of pure spite. This injured animal who. He kept alive because he had like stolen from his fruit tree or whatever. And like it's very, that's very much certainly in the large scheme of things foreshadowing his relationship with Hector. But I think that there was no way to know that was also setting up the fact that Gus is going to elect to have Hector in this state forever when he could have chosen to have Hector get healthy for whatever reason. So those instincts that have been lifelong within gusts not only being somebody who is prone to vengeance, but somebody who is prone to creative vengeance, that that is something that's been within him for a very, very long time. And now I think in in the wake of this episode, we are beginning to appreciate the extent of that creativity. The extent of the creativity, as I said, a serial killer stuff. Yes, it's the stuff of legendary madman. So good for Gus fring I guess great television man h h Holmes here, like this is terrible stuff. I think it's a great character note. I think for for that to be, you know, we certainly know that the how the have Agusan Hector stuff is going to bear out if you if you made it that far through breaking bad. And I think for this added layer, this is this is the kind of thing that I really enjoy better call Saul foreign. How enriches the other show that we have seen. I really. And it'd be it pays off. You're right. You're right to connect connected to the monologue from last week. It is almost two convenient in a way that ten months later or wherever our long time jump was. We have a moment that really shows exactly what Gus was talking about in that monologue, but the two are very directly connected for sure. And this is somebody that he has ensnared now, and it's somebody that has emerged broken from the snare and that he will now choose to fight to the death essentially. And that's where we renew. These two characters are pitted against each other. He's going to let him suffer. And we know that this is a, this is a Gus fring who is a monster in that way. Very fascinating to see that play out in real time in a similar dinner, Josh, too. When he asked Walter white to guess in the at the end of season, three of breaking bad, I think it's an advocate episode very, very funny stuff, but also very dark. He's handling a knife in his kitchen, making the exact same meal and. Firing a doctor in the middle of conversation because he realized when he catches the eye acting of Hector Salamanca and peop- sash that he's in there and he's alive. Heck, Gus, Gus is he's so good. He's just as tension to details, just incredible. I mean, was that you know exactly just like shades of him, knowing that he should not go to his car. You know what I mean? Like it's it's so great. The other thing that we get from the ten month time jump is the the progress on what's happening with the meth lab at the laundromat and how verners crew is acclimating to life at this secret headquarters that Mike has pimped out for them with basketball courts and pool tables and all the brother. He's built a German, big brother house, Josh, and of rob were here. That's what we'd be talking of course, but I'm here and we don't talk about big brother when I am the jury house. Right? It's it's Ponderosa. Sure. Sure for them. Fair enough. But no. I mean, if this is big brother, I have to imagine what that even really watch. A lick of big brother that this is the hardest version of big brother. There is ten months, big brother. That's a lot of big brother. Yeah, it's pretty bad so you can see you can tell these people. It's really wearing on them, like the stress of this job that they have not seen the cold light of day since we last saw or known the warm touch of a woman, Josh. Indeed, they're in need of some are in our, yeah, that's what they call it. The military clearly Reich is Mike understands what what's being put down there for sure. It's it's rough. Yeah. The big brother house. She would at least have the potential for show manses. This is this is a guys are just drilling all day long and then they're coming back home and watching soccer and getting drunk. It's like not a great life for them. At the end of the day. I don't know. I feel a little angry about this though, in some respects, because there's a scene here, a great scene where Mike is learning that his name in German has some meaning like what was it again? It was willful strength. There's some world strength there will will world-class strength or something. Strongest man in the world. Trout. So he's learning all that and he's there. But then Werner is is like you have to understand these guys were heater. They thought it was only going to be eight months, and I wanted to say, we'll lose fault. Does that of course, like why? Why do they think it was going to be eight months? You said it would only be eight months, like it's your fault. Werner you jerk. So this is your fault. You put all these guys in this position, and I know you think they're such nice boys, but they're causing all these problems. Now, Josh, I'm teen KYW though. Like I don't blame KAI for this situation whatsoever. Some other dope caused a construction accident. Why getting blamed for this? Mike does not like KAI like Mike doesn't like him. KYW has really stuck in Mike's craw from that one time. That was like kind of rude to him. But I mean, we don't know what Mike has observed from KAI in ten months. You know, he said, keep an eye on that guy. Keep an eye on that guy, and that guy is exactly what the actor's name who plays sky is Ben Bella, boom. Oh, I love that. Ben, Bella boom. There's name my favorite line from the fifth element band, boom. Yeah, but he doesn't like this guy. He's not a fan so he hasn't been a fan for ten months, and so he's just gonna. He's gonna scapegoat him. I, I wonder, you know, certainly, we've seen Mike kill outside of the context of being a police officer at this point in the show already. But do you imagine Mike killing KYW? Like is that something that we are building towards like Verner doesn't want to lose this guy, but Mike really does. And can you imagine that being something that is pushing Mike closer to being sort of like the RAD hitman that we're going to see him be breaking bad? Certainly possible possible. I think that we will see we will see Nacho have to be put up to that. That's another person that you could say. Maybe he's in the realm where he has to pull that off. I don't know the truth of that. I mean, obviously, I don't know because I haven't seen it. I'm wondering who did we see him kill on better call Saul besides the cops, I'm trying to remember your memory of it would be much better than mine. 'cause I was saying. That I'm not sure that we've seen that he wanted to kill Hector, so he was ready to kill. And I think that's the distinction, right? Is that initially in season one going into season two, he was not willing to kill. He wanted to beat him up rather than do what Nacho paid them to do, which is kill to go exactly. Wanna take him out because seemingly he didn't want his hands dirty in that way. He's gone out of his way to not kill in the desert as well. When he pulls off a lot of these complicated Capers to rob trucks and to set up other trucks. He's not shooting into the sky, not at people, but he was ready to kill Hector Salamanca for the crime by the way of killing us, civilian. Killing a guy who just seemingly was trying to be a good Samaritan with a truck driver that makes it up in the desert. So he was ready to kill Hector Salamanca for that. He did not ultimately do that. And I don't know that we've subsequently seen him kill, but I think you're right that he's crossed the threshold in that we've. Seen that he's willing to do it. So if he's willing to do it, what maybe the story from Mike at this point is that guy is really not a guy who's in the game, at least not directly. And if KAI had broken him down over these months and to the point where he's willing to take some action to protect gusts interest, we know that that's something he's more than willing to do later on. So he's got to get there. And that's the breaking bad story of Mike trout in the context of better call Saul him actually breaking bad. We're certainly seemingly on that path whether that will happen or not. I don't know, but I think you could see that it could happen for sure. I think one of the things that we need to see with Mike is that like we've seen him kill out of a need for vengeance with the killings that happened in that flashback and season one that has already been done, but we've seen him shy away from contract killing so far. And we know that that's something that he is going to be comfortable doing in the future is that kind of wet work. So I think what we need to see is. That we have yet to see is when does Mike urban trout look at killing as little more than a business expense where it's really nothing more than just transactional and just something that's part of his gig that hasn't really connected yet and the simmering feud between himself and KAI. I wonder if that is something that we are building toward and maybe even something where especially because we know that Bernard thinks that this is a guy who is essential to the crew. He's a good boy. He's part of he's one of my best that if Mike is going to try and extricate this guy from the situation, he is going to need to do it in some way that is anonymous. So is it going to be through the are and are like, is there is like this is the aren't are going to provide some level of cover for him, waiting in the shadows like the Batman that he is and like bowling a page out of the Gus spring playbook and putting a bag over this guy's head or something like that. A spixii eight him. Those are the kinds of things that I'm that I'm thinking about in terms of what might could do to KAI just to to make it look. A little more accidental, but still be very business oriented in his mind that this is going to get things back on track even though I think you're right. I think his anger is misdirected towards this person, especially that it does. I mean, we we probably are going to see some are in our, he's probably going to take him out to some of the CD underbelly of Albuquerque, but it's not. It's not something. I mean, maybe does something at that point that makes it impossible to let him just skate like maybe he commits a crime or draws unwanted like thorns, our attention to the circumstances that means that Mike has no choice, but to do that. Otherwise the whole thing is shot and he's got too much loyalty to the operation and he feels like it's part of his job at this point that you could foresee that circumstance for. Sure. I don't think he's ready to just take off the board, but he certainly is is heading in that direction for sure. And it's rough. I mean, Coggin killed by bitter jury. That's pretty bad to lose chairman, big brother. Your anything else from these two episodes that you went ahead on before. We close out, it's it's. It's fascinating to me that that that we've got the position. I mean, we had Mike apologizing to Stacy and we have Mike, we saw two of before this. The big blow up that he headed Mark Jackson therapy where he said, this guy's fraud, I can tell, you know, and he's apologizing to Stacey for that, but he's still clearly is carrying around so much guilt about what happened with his son and they're, they're in that position. So we don't really know what's going on inside my head, but apparently at some point he'd learned to yell in German boys stop. Yes. Well, you know, ten months is enough time to learn boys, stop in German dodgems early, sees working on it. Yeah, he's definitely working on it. And then the other thing is, are there really and this is I'm speaking for rob here. So shout out to you. My boy, are there really that many criminals and Albuquerque, Jackson Johnny could sell that many burner phones? Yeah. I mean, he's at a very. A very lucrative time in these past ten months, and you just have to wonder how big that market is barely decently big. It's certainly sizable. I think there's probably some repeat customers. I think that in the last impera we had a, we had a statement of some sort that these these only had like three hundred minutes on them or something to that effect. So I think that's probably part of it for sure is that there's that, but I definitely know that rob would have highlighted that because there's your so many who seemingly is selling hundreds and hundreds of these burner phones. And I just got a lot of repeat customers. Maybe that has to be. I'm trying to think if there's anything else. Is there anything else you wanted to highlight? No, I think that we, I think we touched. I think that there's, there's a lot of a lot of different possibilities up in the air. I do feel like we're just at that breaking point for for Jimmy and Kim, which is upsetting. I'm not looking forward to that, and I keep trying to hope that it's like going to be some sort of mundane thing. But obviously it's not going to be that it's going to be very terrible and I don't wanna see it. I mean, it's some kind of head and they, they do. They have in the past in front of these issues. They have talked on some level, so we'll we'll see what this looks like they, she really was giving him a lot of latitude. She had rich Weicker in pinata, say like these things are all different. Gotta take them day by day. Like could be anybody. You've had a lot of people asking after Jimmy, so I'm not sure she knows necessarily how to proceed. One of the things I'm not seeing though, and I thought I would see more of it as I'm not seeing a lot of the guilt in Kim over what happened to Howard. She seems to have back Bernard that herself, and maybe that's why, because she's doing she's in the good deeds club. Like maybe that a huge part of why she's giving back to the community because she feels she has to put some good karma into the universe where everything that happened a with Chuck, but I just don't see her carrying around a lot of that y'all right now. No. Well, that's why I wonder like just how bad of a situation is Howard in right now. Probably not to the point that it is very obvious that he is just like at the edge of his at the end of his rope, open. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, because he certainly is carrying that guilt around, but we have seen, we saw her shout him down, but we haven't seen much else, but I feel like she fell. She was responsible in part for what happened to Chuck a lot last season. They're just haven't seen it as much this season. So that may be something that comes out when they do potentially have a confrontation that you like the there were two montages in this episode. How about the big rock candy mountain? The hall. I loved that that song with second my head for good couple of hours after watching the episode, the cops have wooden legs, Josh. Now I want to know more about the lemonade fountain. It's also great like the chickens leehar soft boiled eggs, like there's good stuff in Hobo heaven. There take me to Hobo heaven, heaven, Berl lives. We're going to have great stories to tell feel like, oh heavens, not a bad place. You gotta know the Hobo code to get in there though. Hobo code. I've not learned lives. Here's what I saw in chalk on the outside of your house. One time I don't wanna talk about that. Yeah, that's really this is one little Easter egg that I've got in my notes here. The other guy that was busting the pinatas with Hewlett pinata previously seen on better call Saul in the episode where Mike confronts the guys in the parking garage where he shows up for job. The first time he ever meets Daniel worm learn or worm Lund price, the guy who he represents with the drug deals with Nacho when he first shows up. There's that big mouthy guy who's got all the guns and he's ready to show off everything. And then there's another huge guy in the corner there. And Mike gets all the guns off the mouthy guy. And he turns and looks at the big guy in the big just cheeses. It runs away down into the parking garage. That's the guy who was busted up the bananas, clearly a guy, a regular member of the vets like roster of just criminals for higher incredible. I think on the show that call him man mountain. I think that's his character name. So that's where we've seen that guy before. Or for sure that feels like a fair name, man, mountain men miss a little bit like an NFL often looks a little bit like Andrew Whitworth, Cincinnati, Bengals, and LA Rams. So all right. I mean, obviously, if I don't know if this is the other thing that I'm, I'm just have, I'm officially lost. Pain is very special. Whoa. Is us alot? Whoa, is me. All right. Well, I think that that's good for our coverage here of better call salt. Thank you guys for during me in the absence of rob again, Josh sending all of our best to Robin his family and and hopefully he will be back next week TD on exactly how that will play out. But of course better call Saul. We'll be back and podcast will be back as well, at least with Antonio Massaro hanging in there and Tonio. You know, it won't be back next week is our coverage of USA networks, the center because it's about to wrap it is about to wrap. We add another similar delay with that show due to just shake ups behind the scenes here, but we will be back to recap the final two. Of the center. The finale will be airing Wednesday evening. We'll be back before the end of the week with coverage of the final two episodes of the center. I'm certainly ready Josh to talk some center with you looking forward to how that all wraps up if you not aware Josh. And I have been talking about that all season long here at Poche. Oh, Rico's, Josh. How can people get our podcast EPO show recaps post show recaps com slash itunes. That's yeah, that's a you. Songa fight it. That's great. You can also send us feedback, Josh. How can people send us feedback show recaps com slash feedback. That's pretty good. That's pretty good. And do you know what the Email addresses for the sh- isn't it? Boehner call saw pleasure. You guys dot com. I think it's BC. Dot com. I didn't want to say something stupid, like I love you that that that's it. That's all I got. I want to thank everybody for their patients in this. I know a lot of people tweeted at me or center thoughts in for Robin, we certainly appreciate that. We certainly appreciate everybody's patience and understanding at this time. So thanks again, everybody and Josh. Anything else? No, just ain't Karen. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it, please. You were great. Thank you again. Thank you. Everybody by.

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