Building Breweries Down Under with Zenkuro & Melbourne Sake (Part 1)
Hi everyone welcome back to another episode of second on Air. Were recording from Japan's sake. Show Association usually were recording from there. Ever now we can say that it's okay. It's totally okay sometimes. The logistical issues that we have to contend with on occasion so we are in spirit. We are transmitting. Were transmitting sock. Infused what people actually brought me back in one thousand nine hundred places actually on the main drag the first it was kind of sway something to be civil to the point where actually chanter is. David Sake beverage ISTRIAN welcome and thank you for once again tuning into a brand new episode of sucking on Air. The world's number one podcast dedicated to expanding the dialogue on Japan's to most iconic beverages psyche. And showed you. My name is Justin parts one of several of irregular sized navigators here on the show and this week we will be talking with two very inspiring gentlemen about what goes into starting up a new socket bree outside of Japan this week. We're joined by Mr David Joel head brewer and owner of zinc based in Queenstown New Zealand and together with him. We also have Mr Matthew Shot. The owner and head brewer of what is soon to be Melbourne socket. When we got together with these gentlemen we ended up starting to chat and before we knew it. We were there for nearly three hours because of that we decided to split this episode into two parts. Because there just wasn't enough fat to trim away wanted to keep as much of it intact so that we can share with you. The Stories of what these gentlemen have gone through are going through and are looking forward to in the future of their psychic Bruin careers this week. I'm joined by Marina Gotha Sebastian. The among and Chris us we'll have part two of this episode coming your way in the coming days so stay tuned for that but until then let's start the show we're sending the love. We're sending the love from Japan Sake and so two Mason Center and we have diffused that to a hidden location in eastern Tokyo from where we're broadcasting today we're just having to make do with An unusual arrangement today. I am joined by our usual hosts of Justin pots. Christopher huhne sense avesta Lamar Ameri. I'm usually the voice that goes on in the background. If you haven't noticed in today were joined by Dave Jal from Zen could all from New Zealand as well as Matt. Shaw from Melvin. Second welcome guys very into to bit so. The whole premise of this episode is on building and running a brewery. Outside of Japan You Dave are a seasoned veteran in brewing With yours in Kudo series of sucking waiting some quite impressive awards as of late and you mad art brewing end planning to commercial sometime sin so with that all being said So Yeah Dave. Do you WANNA go ahead and introduce yourself to our listeners and start to show. Thank you very much marine in team. It's an honor to be here today. And the selection t to sheer some of the things that I've done with my teammates inquiry over the last five years. It was nice of you to introduce me as a as a veteran After infect five years but this is we're now fifty and Compete to all the Japanese breweries I visit there hundred fifty years old. Two hundred years old four hundred years old sitting think we still Absolute novices but We trying abyss in learning as much his. We came as we go so I'm from from New Zealand In a live in Queenstown which is down the bottom of on the southern end of a New Zealand The politic shooters forty five south. So it's about the same as what can I in Hokkaido? Which is forty five north? I think and will Japanese team thing. We just just sorry from the South Pole We're a long way but there's nothing between Zealand then in south Paul safe this. The wind blows from the south. Even in summer it can be co which makes it Pretty good environment for making sake. And which is one of the reasons we Decided to give it a go and Queenstown. I generally from here. I'm from the AOL. Did you move to quick to have originally from middle of the North Island in the place called Fung Lee and deny came to Japan for quite a long time lived here when I moved back to New Zealand. I decided Queenstown was placed for me. Is We wanted to to be in spiritual place and a very nice cold dry climate? We have him. Glacial Lakes and mountains and Glassy is obesity and felt the lakes and lots of visitors from all over the world. So it's it's quite a small town it's It's very sort of intenational. Did you choose Queenstown because you foot? He was a good market for USA K. Because as a good environment to brew or just because you wanted to live there I'm a I lived in Japan for about fifteen years and then about twenty years ago baked to Zealand. Daytime was I was a seasoned after fifteen years in panels of season suck a drink but the hidden thought about actually making Sucky so I been working his a Japanese speaking guide and tipper in in Queenstown for fifteen or so years and then about five years ago the idea of making sookie in New Zealand popped up. And what what I guess. One of the reasons We decided to go with. It is because of the climate in. Queenstown in in the water and affected them. It's quite intenational little town. Leigh's is it tuned yet. These spinout important victor. The whole originally the idea was that It was something that could fit in our clients. Our customers who we guide our Japanese so we sort of be a NAS fit to eight. Something else was looking for Japanese and Sukey providing sucky for our clients was best fires. We thought probably And the IDEAS would fit in with what what we're doing. What my guiding. But after bet tease realize it's not feasible and Is something is bruins. Not something he can do pot Tom. Yes oh I'm neil completely over full-time brewing second and trying to sell it of course in in spread the word about them had wonderful. Japan's National Bee Ridge is was the like one flash of inspiration or one moment or someone who said something all will serve you. Something all can have the gave you this this idea and right there and then he was like yeah. I'm going to go back to Zealand. I'M GONNA Bruce Second. Be Nice Hug it. So yes but doesn't silently young. Let's it's a bit more complicated I I. I came to Japan Forty years ago and Since the Molles opening bill Japan Japanese things and mooning language University High School in Japan University Japan Japanese wife and for for half Japanese children and so it kind of evolved particularly like Japanese teamwork in Doing things Doing things together. Even if it's repetitive without talking too much and just Comes from that Japanese Ricotta. Just I like the style of doing things so One of my partners and zinc row is Japanese and He he did get a bit of the heat stat on us in the became the owner of one of Canada's breweries. I've nine him in his family for duty owed years about five years ago. We were talking. He was telling me about his Berea in Canada and the one he hoped he could do the same Zealand preps that was when the that was the moment up. I'll put my hand up straightaway. Were people asking you on all sort of saying you know. This is crazy. Don't don't do this. Oh kind of overs. The feeling that's a really good question because I guess with with my might who sit the company up with Let's IT company up with Who Will Japanese recall Japan Japan files and and we've done guiding to either for a long time and was looking for new ideas in Mushin was shot down early on and so this was. This was a new idea Which are put to the team? The team loved it And then we started sending out feelers and trying to get fade big and to to their great surprise in delight everyone sold was a good idea and most important my wife so it was a good idea going to say as far as you know supported. There's different different aspects. You have to take into consideration different people's opinions that have to balance and teamwork you know when you go into something you go. It's not often you get the support of everyone but in this case I would say yeah we. We hit full support from everyone. We respect to senator encouraging. So when so when you go okay? I think I'm GonNa do this. What is where do you start? Well familiar was go to Japan. What I like doing an you faked. It was The idea was that we would get some rose to come from Japan and brute brutal sake and then we learn from the brewers in and we do the sales and marketing sport but I thought I be a down a bit of Fist So I came ditch being spent some time Madam Yoshikuni pushes on in middle and then went to Canada. I spent about a month at a very small brewery like Ending was if you don't mind sharing in in Vancouver. Okay Code Y. K. Three Yeah Yoga. And once the that was some my partner Yoshida Komura he some vested in it and it brewery the so it was easy enough to see See went up and then shortly after that I decided Stunt allies enjoy this and in decided to take part in John Gorton Isuzu sacrificial costs and Off Today with Murray the end yeah and once once done the is sort of there was a it was no religion the hooks were in at that point and and then shortly after that I am Baked Zealand instead Making Double Roku in the kitchen until kicked out in into the garage and In point the rest of the team decided that I was going to be the brewer. So things have changed direction from that point on and I really got into studying okay. So that wasn't really part of the designed from the beginning. Is You taking on responsibility? The Bruin responsibility now I. I'm to be Sucky Rua but I think Personality wise and all that I think Dave just kind of makes the the best fit them all Because to be a fulltime brewer. You need to be quite meticulous and you need to be. You need to work within you know within a structure and a regiment and I think Dave has a wonderful sort of ability to work with structure in his extreme attention to detail. Really that's know that until started trying to make the I Y DIY guy or you surprise you don't for just about everything in his spurious. Diy Aid in Couple of ALP help was as well. We're none of us are very young. Marie low. They've reached age considered when she was with us But so we kind of come from the generation. We you fix fix K. Soulful affects your own lawn mower. Orem Utah Urine Barbecue or something like that you know you might if you wanted to cheer you stole titles something you make it. Yourself. So he's an in particular a appearance fathers. This what they did buy things you might do with what you know what you hate and you give it a try. Didn't work and cushion you. Throw anything away is is is nothing junk so when we started seeing the brewery all this junk. I hit around A lot of which being handed down from my father will become your useful. Espn Bit as well as squad. Satisfying to bring stuff yet and useful. He and you'll find that you know Like when you go to these kind of smaller breweries in Japan. That may be just like not starting up. But maybe they've they've gone through bad times and they kind of you know the happened to kind of revive the breeding away. You see this a lot. This kind of You know making do with what you have available in. Sake-brewing is actually very versatile. Styling my respect isn't it? You don't really. You'll only need that. You know special equipment to brew. Is there anything that you you absolutely couldn't do? Without the you have to buy Japan or the you hat to have made to measure to brew to brew the second you bring I guess After a trial and error at this stage The yeast is very important. I think okay not a piece of equipment but the reality in south though just some very simple things For example the When you steaming the rice the The materialists used for You know like the big bags to go into. The steamer is not available. His New Zealand as far as I know started using sheets. Bedsheets to speed cheats chiefs good coach but not as good in them that something better and because they're not expensive to buy from pain either and And now that we have no order from we can get these simple little things. Inexpensive things that Improve the quality of the you know the steam dry sort of consistency. The bags of used for After resigning young I started off with pillow cases but I think like for example the the we've visible too tight Little things like that and One brewery that has been some Tommy dumb who'd about the pillowcases story and method and and decided we needed some so they gave us some of their their speed bakes and made a huge difference. This secretly using the pillowcase. Possibly other than it I guess we now Heavy on those little woodsmen Royce washing machines Just figuring ahead use it but Yeah that's something that you can only get from Japan's vase. I now and that once again. Then for the amount the quantities Royce we wash and didn't think we hit met when you had it but it was sitting in the corner skiing. Here's gets gets change anything you're looking at it when washing just let wondering if you could figure out how to use it but you weren't quite sure so that's another thing. It's a specialist piece of machinery that I think he's really improved. The second annual so The timing Efficiencies is is we finding is very important as well limited to to succeed in. Get the so what you're essentially doing way you kind of doing it from the ground up doing it. The traditional way you know and then yeah like you say use these piece of equipments China linked the bring more efficient when China prove with. Just one person T- people that's what that can of equipment becomes essential especially on produce. You know volume. Yeah let's it's. He's doing it the way that we do it. Hundreds of this. That was there intention. Start is to John do it. The traditional method before we we dig too deep into the nitty gritty and stuff like that. We'll get into that but also this gentleman chimed in Matt timed in a moment ago so when I make sure we get this gentleman on Mike figure out who who who else is huddled around the table here. Not so you're making Sakai in a certain capacity. Yes future intentions to make more sucky. Yeah that's a good way of putting it. Tell us about what you're up to. Nothing if Dave considered himself NOVA SAUNA VILLAGE AMATEUR IN THE WORLD OF BRING. Suck me and my partner. Quainton is back in Australia. Manning the ranch as it will gallivant around Japan by come from our restaurant background in Melbourne I came from all Somalia background files six seven years. He was slightly more management We'd get together every now and again and drink too much something inside that we should make it when drunk and we tried to maximus Italian tomorrow. One stage to mix success and then we saw other people do it successfully and we'll commercially than we ever thought we could and I guess we kind of just sold the craft industry in Melbourne Australia. In general growing and growing. And you can't move agenda Steph curry or a across brew In Melbourne one is making sake and and you have to want him many bottles of of soccer. We decided we'd take it upon ourselves. I think it was that night. When we got drunk on sake and said we'll we'll take it upon ourselves via email Dave Zealand. Because we'd heard about head about the New Zealand Sabra and whilst I've isn't necessarily the quickest to respond to an email He got back to US eventually. Dying over the last ten minutes usually keeps having these reoccurring bits of like if you think he was scared of the Whitsun wash. It looks like a laptop. It's an awkward joke at debut. Now like I don't know if I'm supposed to laugh at this or not. But I know because his inbox has been exploding since nineteen ninety nine. And Yeah it's I think it's a part of Dave's charm thereby shouldn't take them. I shouldn't say that he was It was very gracious and generous. Wave is his time in the end so talk more or less now. I know it's not I was. I was very generous with his time in the end and I to go in wax after two weeks within brewing site we did not learn than from died how to how to do things so how he was getting about things and lucky guys touched on the equipment unite read textbooks in the world and watch all the videos in the world and theorized that you know maybe we could steam. Ross stop in the United. Maybe that's true but then you go to guide to Queenstown. Visit Dave exactly what he did and he got up. It can't be done so after two weeks of the saying dive do his thing and how he was achieving things. A kind of gave us the confidence that we could do the same thing. We've come back from those two weeks New Zealand and sort of marinated a couple of days and by said to each other so Planned a trip to the sites to kind of do the same conned things been six weeks over in the United States in craft. Breweries sounds Kinda counter. Intuitive to guy to America to lend brisk until you think about it so the way I started landed precisely was guys news. Eight in the states but in terms of size and scale and make up going. Diy does though the way we did it so am six weeks in the states hesitating very serious and learn more and more lung the way in different solutions different ways of doing things and yet came back from that by quit all that fulltime jobs then decided to give it a guy. Okay there you are. You're in Melbourne. You I WANNA BRUSCHI. A unique water unit rice How do you tackle the shoes? So still tackling still tackling having finished the tackling yet water. We're lucky in Melbourne in that. Its and don't quote me exactly on this. But I think the American wife Measuring Impulse Chameleon where between ten and twenty six popped a million homeless which is soft even by Japanese standards. Nothing I think very very soft and Japan is below thirty from from one Sansei wit. What about you? Dave actually Your numbers but I did siege at remembering numbers but I have researched it. And we like Not Competing with Melvin Costa Super Soft Super Soft whereby safer soft super soft. And we. That's one of the things we Very early on As soon as I've done a little bit of study Lou here in Japan. Nabet these leaks had water and water It's not just the hardness Zaid's it's how minerals ash contains because when you measuring the hardness of water you actually only measure magnesium and calcium potassium false for us and one of the escaped my mind which is actually what drives the East in the feminization so even when you have soft water in Japan. It doesn't necessarily mean you're going to end up with what we recall. Slow all kind of language. Feminization could still be quite aggressive. And you can still get quite robust image flavors from that you know and we did find it. alligator is runoff from glacial bliss. Lucille Mountains and mountains. It'd be cowed by glazes So the the Ryan by Ordinance now basically and runs straight into the lake We join from. I'm not sure bill. We zero nine. That is not it's not sny melts Special is four different reservoirs that serve Melbourne municipal water understand and they're all slightly different in the way that kind of formed I'm not professing to be an expert any stretch. I attend the top one and measured the water and that was enough to kind of give you the confidence like you said. I guess the kind of the things fell into place when we were planning on doing soccer was will. Can we get rice? Yes Australia lost. And let's go. Let's one good pop. Most of the like Japanese Burma's Yousof water with is look at the Warta Soft Co. Maybe this is possible before we visit to Dave. That kind of stuff was a buck up the wrong tree here or is actually. That looks like it could work. And Yeah those kind of things that into place Obviously suck him. I is a little bit of a tricky one though when growing that in Australia yet. Obviously that complete mad dream would be that. We have to help people do that. And be different the Ross Industry. Since we haven't released a batch commissioner. That's maybe some way away but that's kind of what we do. Culture Hickory is growing in Australia widely enough thrall Pepsi's anyway which we'd love to try and use eventually. We're not yet by no the thing again. It's like inspiring competences. I have states suck Carried is good and a Tyson socket from Cari. That's not published March. Which as we talked about before recording milling sake rice omitting any rice to semi. Byu You'd think the soccer in Australia isn't really possible yet. There's no industry so enticing these suckers from Ninety Percent Cochet Curry. I'm not suggesting the level of skill or ability to do it yet but that is the and I know it's possible because I've tasted some. That's actually that's I'M. I'm really super curious about because you okay. So we'RE WE'RE GONNA TURN THE FAUCET WE'RE GONNA measure. We're going to see where we're at. The first question has always given the resources readily available. Can we make something that we could call sake is of course dump one but when you decide you're going to make sake usually it's not just? I'M GONNA Make Sake and I'M GONNA be satisfied with a you've had some sort of experience or some sort of something that is informing the type of sock it you want to make and whether you can of course he you know nobody can do that. From batch number one maybe not from batch number ten maybe not from batch number you know thirty forty fifty in the first place Gopher. Reckon you know that's clearly there's a long term visible. I'm just sort of curious. What that from the get-go what that business for not just I'm going to make How do you envision the aid that you are going to make? How is that sort of? How do you integrate that into your planning? Both initially as you get started as well as sort of long-term how do you? I'm curious how you guys are both sort of address that story. Hi How you think about that. I guess. Kind of manifesto from the get-go is to make the best soccer. We can from what we have available at the time Walter Wise it's unchangeable pathway consent. Fennell we have the self taught as I was going to be what We have the raspy have available. We'll make what can we buy? Come men Quinton M- apartment come from a more of a wine and beer background Think and you know I'm English. He's Australian strong. Lives are kind of become from it. We know we love Yamaha. Komodo we likes to stronger. Robust may gain shoe type stuff as well. I guess go with food like zinc encourage beautiful American. I'm against you. That we're enjoying record my just say. Dan I available in liquor stores. Quick Don Murphy. So yeah we're not too scared of acidity robust flavors in Osaka Diagnose Aroma riot style tonight. We appreciate delicate light. Dougie's bad from Cable to David just to make the best things that the rule materials we have another said before have applied dream at this stage but to improve those raw materials and make it into a easy for us. Some better to make the okay side Sake. Varieties of rice. Maybe different yeasts down the track which isn't necessarily the easiest thing to acquire outside. Japan I guess the manifesto is to make the best become slutty. Richard more bust his all taste and improve on that as we get is. Is there something that is kind of your is your benchmark? Diab anything that at least like if we can get somewhere in this vicinity week we feel comfortable putting this out into the world is there. Is there something he said you know? given the rice that you have in the resource in the middle of the policy. You think you're going to start with a Yamaha or something along those lines or is there something out there that you've seen the if the sort of striving for to see what you're saying from a start line or something? I wouldn't say one one thing out there that we're trying to attain or emulate because it's going to be nine possible. I'd say maybe a jumping ahead a little bit here talking about the price difference of importing socket to compete to producing ourselves. I think Dave actually showed us a really important point. Which was you. Try to find the perfect product. The happy to releasing release anything. And you'RE GONNA be brewing for five years until you really something so you can't do that. I didn't necessarily think about that in those times until have made that quite class. I I was really good lesson and I guess we'll wait trying to do. Y BE HAPPY. With releasing is touching the sky and guiding. Would I pay for that in a restaurant at the propaganda welfare and it doesn't need to be perfect or amazing or a transcendent experience that I think change people's views on Sakai but it needs to be with myself sitting in a restaurant as a relatively Nice Kashima? Would I be happy having built up? And that's kind of the way mark. Maybe so dave. So how about for you when you got started? What was your initial. Was there something that you. You're striving to make sort of. What has that iterative process. Look like for you over the last five years or so yourself fistful. I'm not sure what like meant to be one of my customers but similar yeh start And there was advice. I got from Japanese. Bruce is just use. Whatever you can get your hands on and Yeast we stuttered with bike his yeast and Wine Yeast Ale Yeast. And the Rois was Well it could bind supermarket properly. Low Obscene team seen in the advice was. Don't worry about the rice. Don't worry about the East. Just practice brewing so The first teen this thing twenty bitches. I'll just bet practicing And still released them No. I'm curious about too so this is so that you're able to it. There's nothing restricting you from brewing and experimenting putting those things out to the world either as a novice brewer or isn't an official product. And that's a liberty that we do not have here in Japan here and enzymes. I'm sort of using you. You have the choice as to whether or not you want to you know you know. Get down get your hands dirty in the kitchen. You know after dinner or whatever and do that a very small scale you know versus actually making put it out into the world here. You know even if it's beer you have a lot of craft beer. Breweries that are popping up left all Japan now whereas their initial Brazil essentially would have been. You know homebrew for a lot of people that type of stuff. A lot of people started with nothing in. It's you know a little bit all over the place right now. You've got all kinds of amazing crappier than in Japan. But we assume you've got it's kind. It's starting to become a little bit chaotic. In multiples people starting point is. This is the first time I've done this in. It's you know he said you released first product but was there a stage or a process in there where it was like. I'm tinkering around at home and now I'm going to bottle it and try and put on a shelf annot some for for me a position third bitch other than the Dobro W stage Before I actually started doing oil knew about Sundance me. It was the Roku in the Bustari in went candidate meticulous and A wrote down the procedure and methods in came back and tried it so three bitches from the I took some to my wife for dinner one night and she drank hidden audit so just gave me the confidence to put it out there and And we didn't say odds great a second in the world of course but we see this New Zealand's first and give it a try. See what you think at the time. a good. He's not too bad but now people are saying. Oh I remember that. How'd you thought about your brand but it is So the brand The brain zinc will Ah Lick they pop out before long before the sucker rushed. Yeah yeah we played a little stuff in heeds and dream and And that was one of the fun things coming up with a nine. We wanted to use Qazi the name. The name was very early on. What made you want to impress these characters upon your label. What was it? What was the driving sort of motivation behind that? We wanted to show a respectful Japanese things and in particular Craftsmanship making things behind to keeping things. Simple aim so good place to start In which was just for me. It was always thought about it very much but the name was going to be in custody But obviously as you. You've mentioned them. It needs to be You know exists and understandable so we had to think of something that the New Zealanders. He's quite quickly In something that Japanese would be able to relate to to to New Zealand as well so a bit of a compromise by putting down beside the characters Zingo written in English as well breath. I Love I love. I love it. I was. I heard and I went. Oh Oh yeah of course. Why not what else? It just seems like a no brainer when you hear it you know but it is so clever. Nice that's what you said that third batch was kind of like the one which where you decided to release. Then how many of the batches after that were successful? Did you have come? Go through another of Malkina fail batches or you know how difficult was it. Seref produced that that flavor that you've given to your wife's that night and she giving you praise falls I'm Produce it again. But the that that wasn't wasn't particularly good mostly it was just much better than number one and number two. I think and in divorce we use the methods. Everything's changed completely if we're going to talk about a number Bitch numbers even remember. Well because we we go to Immediate London Sake challenge was ill th beach and the bitch was completely different on the seventh and I think it was. That bitch was One one person whole Hobich So that kind of dispute and to to know And then I think from memory from Bech nine we. We started using Caros node to sixty besieged a big changes for them when it was. What were you Sam? Bitch? Three onwards I think it was carol. Rose is seventy seen in from that Betschart as well it was Nine one yeast which change things if we say but set some through to the just tasted ears bitch number fifty two And get back next week. We'll start on bitch fifty four so we still not still haven't done that many But from about bitch forty forty onwards and about that when Marie will maybe Murray's last bitch we sort of changed change the again change direction that's number eighteen eighteen. Yeah He Tang This was with cameras. Once again and healthy of we're constantly looking looking for ways to improve it must've some ways came from Japan and talking to rose. And saying this is this is what it tastes. This is what's happening new ideas and In the give advice or just to show you how they do it And then you try and sometime to wit wit and sometimes didn't change things much but We're we're we're kinda found a direction I think. Now we're going to stick with it for a little while who biggest founds. Who would you say? A demographic is in in New Zealand at the moment Well you know. An ninety percent of his we make his Holden and New Zealand and perhaps surprisingly To some people it's not Japanese restaurants. Things have changed chain changed a lot. The appreciation for Sucky is spreading. It's GonNa to be on a beverage that needs to be enjoyed with with some Japanese. Food in permit would not more betton. This then may coming from Melvin But sort of New Zealand New Zealand more New Zealand. Food obviously have a lot of very good fresh ingredients in New Zealand In until about twenty years ago we didn't have Ideas and experience on how to make this. Ucla ingredients but them as she is of being out here. I'm giving you ideas a lot of. It's a lot of Asian flavor and influence in New Zealand now and for for those customers to our listeners. I should say that we are enjoying inquiries us at cheese. So simple burying works well announced thinking as you were talking about New Zealand food. I was just thinking this the second would drinking now. I can see like Oh really well with lamb which causes a you know. It's a staple isn't it is in in particular for visitors to New Zealand into the cuts of Lamb. That we don't to hungry often but it's something we have tried to work on his. It's had to brew one second. It will match with everything and and my Donovan of it's with while trying but we have a little bit of a range now so if you can pick one from the range The go with this one to go with it or if you're eating this to choose the J- appraisal so forth but it is something we have tried to to to peer with when you said that it's not yours. Sucky isn't serve quite so much in Japanese or easing cuisine. Restaurants specifically is part of the have to do with being based in Queenstown. You sell a lot of your product in Queens down. Does that sort of a unique market just being such a huge tourist population and or is most of your product available in Auckland or is it just completely different thing is at an all New Zealand sort of a trend without something sort of unique to wear your at and where you have access a sexually only Zealand trained it when when we started? We sort of took his two hundred Japanese restaurants in New Zealand. And we can sell you know one bottle awake to each one of them will be. We'll be sweet and it'd be in. This is Japanese. Food at the time of Boeing. Nothing gets ver not really a boom now as to stem. Japanese food is is normal. It's it's one of the lakes cuisines and Children in New Zealand Sushi Falange Rome's might him for lunch for example? So it's it's out it's out the so we kinda thought that will the Japanese food. Bowman will be dry debt. Wave a little bit but it didn't really work like that and we found that easier to So many shifts in New Zealand food and beverage people looking for new things in in new flavors Ensued that second actually works well with all these sort of Intenational fusion fusion seems to go very well so we while it was very important for us to be involved with Japanese restaurants In Japan we probably sort of figure out. Now that it's not it's not the main area we need to be focusing on visiting Queenstown a win visit Dave coming from a restaurant background. It was really really cool to see the breadth of businesses. Supporting Him Guy For breakfast at our place and they're using soccer cocteau from Qura who went to different places Japanese and they were using Curragh So I couldn't the number on it but I went to different places. And just looking around the reset. Pepsi's and Sankara. Everywhere says being supported in ridicule way is really is really really good to say communities supporting the local stuff that I was very impressed by it. So as somebody who's about to create something put it out into the world. Are you looking at developing sort of that community at this stage? What sort of your your material you have a great no craft beer wine making communities and measure me? This import some support on that end but also as far as getting into restaurants or get into places are you starting to make some of those connections and stuff. At this point I guess one of the main advantages of my background is knowing the restaurant industry. Melvin nothing if you people as well like saying the I think the biggest avenue for Growth. Sakai at the moment is that. It's not just the Japanese foods. Not just the having Japanese restaurants states that lots of different things out saying soccer doesn't fly with food. I think that's never more appropriate than in modern restaurants. Nowadays people are starting to say that Melvin is about four million people population which is probably the same as New Zealand. Pretty much yet so lucky. Respect as sort of a local audiences a little bit bigger than bigger than dives Hi-fi they'll be somewhere near a supportive in in our endeavours. I'm say if you're listening by Melvin. Soccer Australia is Quite a long way. Heat of New Zealand's Tim's of understanding spread of of Sucky. Yeah I think that's fair is say you Sydney's had a big Japanese relation for a very long time And you'd be held. Push to go to a fine dining restaurant in the whole country. That hasn't got salk as puppets offering Not on the list. Baz part of their through matching sipe while Susman's charity filtering down to every poppin country town. Australia watering hole funding funding. Many many sock has being set on tap in a country pop The interested foodie diner is much more familiar with soccer and definitely Japanese focused. It's this goes well with this and then with Japanese response is already. Obviously a product already competed with a big. He'd Stott so them business point of view. It's not me smile. The smile place to look to be selling you. You'll brand new products. No one's even tasted as Walton yet. Best not to go tight tie. I was like what concerns. You had to begin with Kenneth. You know if the second you produced and you put out would end up. Maybe having a negative impact on the on the audience there. But that's that's the first concern that I think I would have if I wanted. Stop doing and that would be a pressure a heavy button to have when you shoulders to be the first one you know. Kinda how did you? How did you deal with that? And sort of you know whether any strategies that you employ to kind of combat. What made it easy. It was was Getting some recognition that London Seki challenge that sort of Was a big help We didn't try to you know. Throw the neath out you everyone. We leaked the results. We thought we could work with. Who KNEW US in Would help us so was like We into them for advice and What kind of what do you think this sucker would go with on your on your menu sort of thing so the softly softly slowly slowly in One stupid time and hopefully In a couple of Japanese results came to us and see okay. We ready for you now but it took. It took three three enough. He's second means alcohol. So any product is alcohol could be sold a second in Japan or overseas. I mean you cannot call. You're pregnant you. So how is that a threat to his seat as a threat? Or How do you WanNa address the facts that anyone can release products in the markets Produced from London? Saudi could rise Polish sentiment it using psyches and Credit Second. I don't think the market is strong enough for people to be trying to undercut you. In such a way it seems like the offering from missoula saint in the states. And Dave. And what we're trying to do is your I mean. Hit a very very small segment of the kind of on premise places restaurants and shops that during high quality steph. If Sakai in Australia New Zealand America ever got to the point that paper. We're trying to do bad quality that Sushi. I'm sure we'd have made millions by then because it would face. I wouldn't be so right. Well obviously I wouldn't have to say that the F. A. Sushi outside of Japan because taxation so high that is not. It's not a thing it's not a it's not a cheap entry level. Drink is the fact that the issue is not selling here. In Japan. The reason why the industry is in such a state. It's it's not an entry level drink you have on your out. It's a it's a high level. Find One alternative in a good restaurant will buckle shops. I would necessarily say that as a issue at least for now analysts said if if it does get to be an issue. I'm sure we'll be happy. That sock down say whether in our respective countries and that will do it for part one of this two part series examining what goes into starting a brewery outside of Japan. If you wouldn't mind popping on over to podcasts to review us we would greatly appreciate that also feel free to follow us on social media at at Sake on air or send us your questions or comments about the show two questions at Sake. On Dot Com sake on air is recorded and from the Japan South Gate in show Chew Information Center in the heart of Tokyo and made possible with the support of the Japan. Sock Bay. Show Jamaica's Association. He's show is a CO production between exports Japan and podcast productions with audio engineering and editing. By Mr Frank-walter we will be back with our two very shortly so please stay tuned and combined.